OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: rls840 on July 27, 2009, 08:28:42 pm
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Hi guys, I'm new to the sport and just wondering what the deal is with Pre 90 VMX in New South Wales. Are there any events or plans for any? I've got an 86 CR250 and would love to get it out there and do some riding.
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Oh my God! You've just uttered the unholy words, thereby invoking the full power of the dark forces from beyond this spectre!
Or maybe just another bitchfest on ozvmx...
Short version:
It was put up as an idea for HEAVEN, and rejected.
Further, HEAVEN's constitution was changed to reject the possiblitly of pre-90 racing (unless the constitution is changed again).
So your options:
1. Join HEAVEN and ride their practice days, and enjoy the company of like minded enthusiasts (but no racing on Saturdays).
2. Travel to Qld or Vic where they race pre-90 (and the sky isn't falling).
3. Join the ACTMCC and race in their "old-school" class.
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Hi guys, I'm new to the sport and just wondering what the deal is with Pre 90 VMX in New South Wales. Are there any events or plans for any? I've got an 86 CR250 and would love to get it out there and do some riding.
Gidday and welcome :) You will find pre 90 events Australia and worldwide , they are also known as pre 2010 or modern events ;D
As nathan has said the very phrase pre 90 tends to bring out the worst in us misserable old Bastards ::)
Why not park your 86 and buy a bike that fits in with the current VMX classes in your State .
Im sure Pre 90 will happen one day and when it does you will already have your bike :)
However i suspect that once you have ridden a true VMX bike Pre 75 then you will probably sell the 86 ;)
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What Nathan said. There is no Pre 90 in NSW. And while there is still notionally an 'Old School' class in the ACT club's club day calendar, I don't think there are many starters anymore. Even the guy who started the whole Pre 90 ruckus, young TwistAndShout, has sold his 86 CR in favour of a nice 06 RM250 (thereby demonstrating that he's really seen the light - Honda to Suzuki).
Personally I want to move back to Queensland, all those vintage events within a few hours of home. Sigh...
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Thanks guys for the responses, I Think!!! That definately gives me a place to start. I hope that there are ammendments at some stage as I'm in my early 30's and don't really have the connection with the evo and pre 75 bikes that some of you other guys do. Ive got an 84 CR250 that i can get out and have a spin with. I guess I'll just have to keep the 86 for practice days.
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keep your 1986 CR250RG they are a great bike , i have had mine since 1987 and will never sell it.
as for the doom and gloom of pre 90 it's inevitable and will come in to NSW at some stage, no matter what what some of these crusty blokes say. its been running in Vic since before 2003 and it happily survives alongside pre 85 Evo and pre 78 on the same day.
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Hold onto your bike mate,Pre 90 is coming,the old guard can try and resist the dark side,but its only a matter of time.....
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Rls 840, you will be very welcome at the farleigh castle MXdN where we have 120 pre 1990 500/250 and 125s.
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Hold onto your bike mate,Pre 90 is coming,the old guard can try and resist the dark side,but its only a matter of time.....
Fortunatley in NZ its all wind & piss so ill hold off buying my 1988 rm 250 ;)
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Fortunatley in NZ its all wind & piss so ill hold off buying my 1988 rm 250 ;)
[/quote]
I think like the bike technology crept forward each year VMX will have to keep pace with it. If a mint YZ250U comes up I will be on it, that U Bill not ewe ;D
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i'm the guy who put to heaven they include pre-90 class, as i had recently bought a nice RG and wanted to race it in a suitable class. i thought it a retrograde step that in reaction, they actually changed the constitution to prevent it, but that's their choice. the ACT club then kindly changed their pre-85 class to accomodate bikes like the RG (non-USD/non rear disc), so i raced it there for a year or so (great bike). then the ACT club modernised its track and most of the old bikes dissappeared (to heaven tracks).
so, given all that, plus the non-appearance of pre-90 in any other form in NSW recently led me to sell the RG and buy a modern (an '06 RM250) to join the over 45 year old fray. sad for me not to have a bike from 'back then' (sort of), but that's the way the cards fell. the RG's going south, to where they accomodate guys who like bikes from this still-evolving era.
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The pre-90 debate is many faceted...
One line of arguement is that bikes are not strictly defined "Classic" until they are 20 years old and typically we have tended to jump in year groups of 5 or 10. So maybe there is an arguement for pre-90 racing to start in 2010 and call them Classic MX.
Another arguement is that the sport of Vintage MX was really about the older technologies of bikes, i.e. the transition from old British fourstorke singles through to two strokes, long travel suspension and then ultimately water cooling and disc brakes. Arguably, not much has improved, technology wise, since about 1988. (and don't sprout off about modern 4 strokes, they are a retro-grade step as far as I am concerned ::)) Thus the arguement is that Pre-90 is an "old modern bike class" and not really vintage racing as such.
The bottom line is that if enough people want to race pre-90 motocross bikes, why not let them? The only issue that then arises is whether they should be in Specialised Vintage MX clubs or just race in normal Motorcycle clubs as a Classic Class.
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Stats for the 2009 Nats
Pre 85 entries total inc sidecars 70
Pre 75 entries total inc 4 strokes 166 ;)
Source Qvmx site
Yep those pre 75 dinosuars are dying out :D
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;D ;D ;D You saved me a post Bill.
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Bet your smile is as wide as mine Mark ;D
Great turnout over 400 entries this will be a great nats :)
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Hold onto your bike mate,Pre 90 is coming,the old guard can try and resist the dark side,but its only a matter of time.....
Hey Bill,watch this space mate,its coming to Auckland soon.
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Given the new-ness of pre-85 at National level, I don't think you've got an apples and apples comparison.
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Stats for the 2009 Nats
Pre 85 entries total inc sidecars 70
Pre 75 entries total inc 4 strokes 166 ;)
Source Qvmx site
Yep those pre 75 dinosuars are dying out :D
General club meeting at QVMX
Pre 75 bikes battle to have a grid
Pre 85 bikes 2 grids 250 and 1 1/2 grids opens
Nationals they are always going to come out of the wood work and lets hope it continues
But we need grass roots rides to keep the sport alive that want to run every month or so?
Nothing against the pre 75 bikes (I have one) but lets look to the future as well ;)
Shane
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Bill
Listen very carefully can you hear the rumbling of the wheels of progress?..... ;)
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Liz Iv'e been waiting for the sound of kettles boiling in Auckland for a long time ::)
It seems north of the Bombays talk is as cheap as those kettles you blokes love ;D
Give it up Liz I have an RM 125T here with your name all over it :-*
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Obviously I am missing the point, as I cannot see why the pre-90 people WANT to be included in VMX. By all means ride whatever you like, but just delete the "V". It's a bit like turning up to the Vintage Bentley Club in your 2009 Corolla - why bother?
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Obviously I am missing the point, as I cannot see why the pre-90 people WANT to be included in VMX. By all means ride whatever you like, but just delete the "V". It's a bit like turning up to the Vintage Bentley Club in your 2009 Corolla - why bother?
Well why stop there? why not make it no Japanese, no under 50 year olds and no one with forward thinking? As I have said before in other threads don't call them VMX, call them post vintage but we will need to keep getting new members and already pre 85 bikes are getting hard to get at a realist price as it is.
Who is going to sell their pre 75 bike for 1500 bucks to keep the movement alive?? not many I would think.
As I have also said I love watching the older bikes race and always will but don't exclude people from being involved at club level at the very least?
Shane
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You've hit the nail on the head Shane. The true blue "Vintage" stalwarts and forward thinking don't go together. I'm totally ambivalent towards Pre '90 but the total paranoia and "the sky is falling" attitude is weird. If someone wants to run a pink only postie bike race and they can turn up to a race meeting with 25 bikes I'd give them more consideration than say 2 Pre '70 riders. Nationals will always bring out the true believers but where are they the rest of the year? Answer: sitting in their local cafe drinking lates' (not you ozzie) whinging about these new fangled 20 year old bikes trying to take over OUR sport. These young 45 year old blokes wanting to ride bikes they rode back in their day are ruining everything.
I blame Kevin Rudd for no other reason than I blame him for everything.
The worst thing I've ever seen in any administration is to simply change a club constitution to ban what started out as a simple request from a club member. Totally and utterly unforgivable in every respect.
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Yes I concur with Magoose Shane,you hit another home run.
I really love it when this topic surfaces every few months.It sure does bring out all the stuck in the olden days hayseeds (Firko and Bill excluded- they have the runs on the board).
Hey Heikki I bet you are a member of that 'forward thinking' club in Auckland that has resisted change to the dark side (Pre 86) and hence suffered from every decreasing numbers over the last few years.
Why is it that the biggest city in NZ; Auckland, has the poorest VMX numbers.....you guessed it because the old guard are still resisting change and hence their members are growing older and the number of participants at races are shrinking, because its getting too hard to swing their elderly legs over their old British steads.Never fear change is coming to us 'kettle loving single shock devil worshipers'.
Face facts guys Pre 90 is coming.
Shit at age 39 I find things are getting a tad harder physically,therefore natural progression will always force the older guys out of the competitive side of the sport.
Ira, thanks but no thanks, kettles and full floaters are my poison.
Cheers Liz
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Liz, you're kidding, you're only 39? You look at least 50. How can you have done so much damage in such a short amount of time?
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magoose
It was that year riding the dirty CR 250RZ that aged me.....
Talk about pot calling kettle black
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It would appear that we are nosy amatuers in the big picture :o http://forums.mxtrax.co.uk/showthread.php?t=247571
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Thanks for the link young William, proves my point to a degree, Vintage has a different meaning to everyone and none are right or wrong, it's just an interpretation of what's dear to the individual. It is what it is.
Did someone mention a pot? I'll have 2 of VB thanks,
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don't worry pre 90 supporters we all out number the doom sayers if this thread is anything to go by.
and as as Shane said no one has ever said it has to be called VMX call it what you want but bring the bikes (and more importantly the riders) out to play once more and relive their youth like the pre 75 boys did back in the early days of the their movement, while they still can and have some fun that is the key word here , none of us are making a living out of this, we just want to have fun.
as the prophet Jagger said
"you can't always get what you want, but if you try some time, you can get what you need"
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Can we at least ban the riding gear and hair styles from the late 80's?
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If that Brit site is anything to go by, I'm off to stock up big on '99 YZ parts......... ;D
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Suzuki43, your assumptions are wrong and the personal abuse unfortunate - as is your intolerance of those who don't share your point of view. Thought it was a discussion group. My mistake, one I won't make again.
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Obviously I am missing the point, as I cannot see why the pre-90 people WANT to be included in VMX. By all means ride whatever you like, but just delete the "V". It's a bit like turning up to the Vintage Bentley Club in your 2009 Corolla - why bother?
Ha! You certainly are!
I love how this comes up every few months. Not everybody is pushing 50 and rode in the 'golden years' of mx. Some of us are eighties guys. As i say every time , you guys have been able to relive your glory days, why cant I??
VMX started in the very late eighties, say even 1990. So a 74 model was only 16 years old. My glory bike is an '85 CR500. That makes it 24 years old. More than enough time has passed for me to enjoy my old shitter too!
Oh and bring on the fluro!
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Hey Heikki sorry about the false accusation mate.Excuse me whilst I adjust my mohawk.
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As for banning the hairstyles Mr 27, you only say that to hide your saddness in natures cruelty in taking away the option for you to grow it.
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If ever there was and advertisement for natures cruelty Magoo, it has to be you....
Ahh just finished reading some late 80's mx magazines talk about satanic verses.....
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If ever there was and advertisement for natures cruelty Magoo, it has to be you....
:D
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Hey Guys I just read this topic from start to finish .Talk about having fun! I cracked up several times.You Guys chould start your own TV reality show - "motocrossers fued" or somethin'.
I'm siding with Hoony ,Brad,Magoo and some guy Shane who I don't know.
'THE PROPHET JAGGER" ! whats in your coffee Hoonster?
Anyways reality is that Vipers pre 90 class in not called a vintage class -yet - and is a great success .If it wasn't there 10 or so enrties wouldn't be there either.
Also our VCM series which was always pre 75 based , went pre 78 and now for over a year has an Evo class.They changed with the times overall entries for the meetings are up , the series keeps going and everyone is having fun!
When I first saw a " pre 80" race meet in the mid 90's there was already a pre 85 class.We are well into the 0's now so pre 90 seems natural to me.
Pre 75 needs to be preserved (and pre 70 etc) but bikes and parts are getting harder to come by and more expensive.Its also happening with Evo bikes , pre 85 and pre 90 is easier and cheaper for a lot of guys who aren't up to the seriousness of racing moderns.Its all fun as Hoony said.
I 've been looking for a good pre 90 bike for a while.I also have my beloved 94 ready for oneday when theres a pre 95 and a mint 99yz with a bunch of trick stuff for the pre 00 (over 60) class haha.
We will see where the boys go!
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Yeah, I've been watching this thread too...I just wish I had one of them popcorn munching smilies to use... ;D
Anyway, FWIW my take on the pre 90 is that it IS inevitable, even though I struggle personally with the technology similarities with modern bikes.
What I would like to think may happen (in my utopian world) is that some people will be drawn into the Vintage scene by the pre 90s and then get fascinated by the pre75s and earlier, thereby preserving their competition and relevance.
I will say however that there are many around this sport that are in denial about the "younger" bike classes and in my opinion, this is not a good thing for the sport as a whole. It's much better to include than exclude simply because it's a positive not a negative and people respond much better to positive inputs.
I am fortunate to be exposed to all kinds of bikes nowadays and I have to tell you that regardless of my personal preferences, some of the older bikes are just plain beautiful to behold. Hopefully, some of our pre 90 newcomers will feel the same way about our pre 75 bikes, when they join our ranks. ;)
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Wow, plenty of passion here, good to see.
Maybe there could/should be a sliding scale of a new class every 5 years.
As with computers most of the bikes are already superseded by the time they are available to us.
If your keen and want to compete we should be trying to accommodate everyone.
By the way anything pre 80 is my preference.
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"I am fortunate to be exposed to all kinds of bikes nowadays and I have to tell you that regardless of my personal preferences, some of the older bikes are just plain beautiful to behold. Hopefully, some of our pre 90 newcomers will feel the same way about our pre 75 bikes, when they join our ranks. "
Hey AJ I agree about the bikes being beautifull but then in my opinion so is the certain pre 90 works bike that was featured in V(VINTAGE)MX magazine a while back and I DONT LIKE GREEN!
I don't have a pre 75 bike yet -still looking.
To make a point - I was recently travelling down the Newell on the way back from QLD. Passing through Finlay at night I caught a glimpse of something in the corner of my eye.I quickily made the suggestion to the woman that we should take a break and stretch our legs a bit.She was full of suspicion.Anyway I pulled up on the far side of the "CDB' and we head back into town .
Yes an very clean looking MX360A ."I just wanna check how much its going for darling"
NOT FOR SALE! and that my friends is the way its (pre 75) is going .
If more guys coming into the scene suddenly lust after a pre 75 bike then the prices will just go up until the yonger guys won't see the justification when they can buy a later model bike that is available and that they can afford.
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What I would like to think may happen (in my utopian world) is that some people will be drawn into the Vintage scene by the pre 90s and then get fascinated by the pre75s and earlier, thereby preserving their competition and relevance.
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Hopefully, some of our pre 90 newcomers will feel the same way about our pre 75 bikes, when they join our ranks. ;)
It does work like that, quite often. The reality is that once people are involved in the sport of VMX, very few of the participants remain blinkered to any era - everyone develops an interest (and often an active interest) in the other eras.
I like the rest of your post too.
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Me I was just blowing off steam with TM Bill getting ready for next week!! all that built up adrenalin need to get rid of it somewhere ;D
Magoo, can you bring me up one of your mullet hair pieces for me to use on the weekend as I seem to have the reverse mullet going pretty good these days :D
Hey Magoo, why don't we kick off a pre 90 challenge series? maybe a tri-state thing one round in QLD, one in NSW and one in the home of pre 90 Victoria??
Any takers?
Shane
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The way that the GCR’s have been constructed, specifically in relation to riding up a class, then introducing a Pre90 class would technically be nothing more than a second opportunity for a Pre85 competitor to get more races at a given event. Using the Victorian VIPER series as a guide, as they have been running with a Pre90 format for some years now, the biggest percentage of bikes in the Pre90 class are Pre85 machines.
As it is currently with Pre85, there is nothing in the GCR’s that will stop a Pre78, or EVO bike from running in the Pre85 events. This (in my opinion) is not in the spirit of the class structure. We should be promoting each class on its own merits with matching technology other wise we will have entrants building high end EVO bikes and running them in EVO, Pre85 & Pre90.
My feeling is that if I was to stand on sidelines as a spectator of a Pre85, or for that matter a Pre90 event, I don’t want to see twin shock bikes mixed in with single shock bikes. Pre78, EVO and Pre85 are fairly well defined periods in the Australian scene and there is a fair & reasonable amount of events to allow each group of bikes to run against themselves without the need to bolster the ranks with entrants riding up a class.
It will be interesting to see how many twin shock or non linkage bikes are scheduled to run in the Pre85 class at the 09 Nationals that may also be entered in the EVO classes.
Pre90 is a great class, but…….. The GCR’s need to be addressed for the other classes before Pre90 is considered.
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Bahnsy, The organisers were on top of this and in the Sub-Regs for the event it states one bike one class (save for pre 75 and that also run age classes and the pre 75 four stroke), so it has been covered.
Shane
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Bahnsy the EVO class is not year specific.Some twin shock bikes are not pre 80 or just EVO they are also pre 85.Is it your idea to excluded EVO bikes that where manufactured after a certain date from the pre 85 class ? ie Maicos.YZ G'S and H's , Huskies etc.
Maybe a decision should be made to make all class's either year specific or technology specific.
BTW when did you see so many pre 85 bikes in a pre 90 race ? There s a few for sure but the current top 10 in viper are all 88/89 bike save two.
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Bahnsy the EVO class is not year specific. Some twin shock bikes are not pre 80 or just EVO they are also pre 85.Is it your idea to excluded EVO bikes that where manufactured after a certain date from the pre 85 class ? ie Maicos.YZ G'S and H's , Huskies etc.
Maybe a decision should be made to make all class's either year specific or technology specific.
Motomaniac,
Correct, EVO is not exactly year specific, but by default the class is. The GCR's tell us that an EVO machine is any bike that was manafactured with an aircooled engine, fitted with drum brakes and no linkage suspension. These bikes started in the 50's (at a guess without research) and stopped around 1980/81. There wern't to many manafactured post that date that would cause any significant issues (1 rare as Husqvarna model aside)
My simple belief is that EVO is non-linkage. ie; twin shocks or Yamaha Monoshock. Pre85 is linkage suspension. This would give support to the Year Vs Technology point you raised.
In relation to Pre80, i'm not sure where this fits into the topic as there is no such class, hasn't been for 2 or so years.
BTW when did you see so many pre 85 bikes in a pre 90 race ? There s a few for sure but the current top 10 in viper are all 88/89 bike save two.
I'll plead the 5th on this one as i was basing the comment on the 2008 season. Although i did have a look at the VIPER 09 results up to the Ravenswood round, and of the 23 entrants thus far, i think that 10 of the entrants would be on Pre85 machinery, although i stand to be corrected.
Bahnsy, The organisers were on top of this and in the Sub-Regs for the event it states one bike one class (save for pre 75 and that also run age classes and the pre 75 four stroke), so it has been covered.
Shane
Shane,
So lets see if a twin shock bike fronts the start line in the Pre85 class.
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Interesting thoughts, Bahnsy. I agree with your basic point about the CGRs needing work.
FWIW, I'm trying to think of the bikes that are "non-linkage but still not Evo legal".
So far I've thought of the 84 Husky CR250, 84 Husky WR400, 81 YZ125H, and the 2006 DT175 (which is basically irrelevant 'cause it would be spectacularly outclassed as an Evo race bike).
Maybe the Evo eligibility could be further simplified to just "Factory fitted with Non linkage rear suspension"??? Obviously with regs to also exclude added-on disc brakes etc. If the 400 Husky and the 125H were likely to upset the apple-cast, then you could specifically exclude them.
The net change would only be the wording and (hopefully) the simplicity.
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Motomaniac,
Correct, EVO is not exactly year specific, but by default the class is. The GCR's tell us that an EVO machine is any bike that was manafactured with an aircooled engine, fitted with drum brakes and no linkage suspension. These bikes started in the 50's (at a guess without research) and stopped around 1980/81. There wern't to many manafactured post that date that would cause any significant issues (1 rare as Husqvarna model aside)
My simple belief is that EVO is non-linkage. ie; twin shocks or Yamaha Monoshock. Pre85 is linkage suspension. This would give support to the Year Vs Technology point you raised.
In relation to Pre80, i'm not sure where this fits into the topic as there is no such class, hasn't been for 2 or so years.
Bahnsy I mentioned pre 80 because 1. that was what we had before the Evo class was defined and included and 2. Because I was considering a cut off date for pre 85.
Back in 96 VIPER had no EVO class but included it as an extra class that ran along with pre 80 not instead of pre 80.The argument at the time was that there was some bikes eg. RM T's and CR A's YZ G's Mega Maico's and Huskies that had no place in the series - noone would expect an RMT OR CR A to match up with a for eg 84CR250/500.
Yet these bikes that were in nomans land needed to be included.And its great .
Whether you excluded EVO bikes from pre 85 competion or not is a hard one for me but I would ride both class's if I had 510 Husky.
I'll plead the 5th on this one as i was basing the comment on the 2008 season. Although i did have a look at the VIPER 09 results up to the Ravenswood round, and of the 23 entrants thus far, i think that 10 of the entrants would be on Pre85 machinery,
I think that its a fair observation that some pre 85 riders go out in pre 90 in the first round only for the extra practice.But Im not counting or splitting hairs here.In viper its a legit class and I enjoy seeing those bikes turn up to race.In fact Im thinking of giving the class a go myself.
Too bad that guys in some other states dont have the opportunity.
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I am waiting for pre 90 to ride my 86 KTM 250 in NSW. At least the way its going I have plenty of time to get it up to scratch.
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Magoo, they seem to have got sidetracked, so back to my hair ,or lack of it.
I have plenty of luxurious hair, it just happens to be increasingly on my backside..
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Bahnsy, they may well (ride a twin shock in pre 85) but what I am saying it is one class or the other not both?
If it is not pre 78 and can run to the pre 85 rules then why not?? If you get a good rider on it, it maywell even run a place.
My idea of pre 90 is not so pre 85 riders can ride up but that we can still get the average working joe with not a lot of cash (wife 2 kids maybe?) a ride at club events.
I am riding 2 x pre 85 bikes at the nationals but would not have been concerned at all if they were still not a championship class as I do like the more low key state (club) events.
I am more a bums on seat kind of guy, I would far more like to go to an event that has 100 riders and 12 different classes (all full I might add) then go see 40 blokes (club level this is) run in the same races over and over again with some classes only have 4 to 5 bikes and the only ones interested in watching are their family and friends?
I think that is my main point.
But each to their own I say.
Shane
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I see Ballard is riding an '81 490 enduro in the pre '85 class and a '81 490 mx in the Evo class. Seems fair enough, only riding 1 bike per class..
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This is crap. How can I not ride my '81 model bike in Pre-85? It defies logic. Like having to lower my suspension because the other manufacturers where way behind in 1977. Even at a National level let alone something like Viper. If I have to have a different bike for every class then I'm stayin' home...... >:(
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Liz the jaffas are waiting for you to run 6 meetings a year like those old fellas.
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This is crap. How can I not ride my '81 model bike in Pre-85? It defies logic. Like having to lower my suspension because the other manufacturers where way behind in 1977. Even at a National level let alone something like Viper. If I have to have a different bike for every class then I'm stayin' home...... >:(
Absolutley , this is the one rule i really cant understand ::) you cant change history and people have been riding older bikes in classes since racing started.
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Liz the jaffas are waiting for you to run 6 meetings a year like those old fellas.
It will never happen Mike ;) their all wind and piss ::)
Long live the good old boys :D looking forward to the next 20 yrs of the Classic scramble club :)
Hey Richard if your reading this come back mate :) their not worth it .
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You've got guys saying "let people race these bikes that never existed" (ala non-monoshocked YZ's and twin-shock '82 RM's) and another lot saying "you can't race that bike because it doesn't fit in with how we'd like these races to look" even though the fuggin bikes existed at the time!!! FARK!!! :-\ :-\
* and when I say existed I mean something that you could actually go on down to your local dealer and buy. Not some replica of a bike or someones idea of what a works bike might have looked like if the manufacturer had these left-over bits hanging around the factory.....
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yeah i dont get that. I would much rather prefer to ride my 82 twinshock PE250 in Pre 85 rather than evo because of having a flatslide carby and my shocks are designed to be pre 85 correct and were around in pre 85 but not pre 80 so i wouldnt feel comfortable having it in EV0 even though its a technology class.
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So what you're saying is if you ride a pre '65 bike you can ride every race of the weekend, if you have a Pre '70 bike you can ride every race except Pre '65. I don't get what the problem is, you have a Pre '75 bike, race Pre '75, if you have a Pre '85 bike, ride Pre '85. Don't worry about Pre '80, there is no such thing, IT DOESN'T EXIST!!!!!!!!!!!
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What do you have against someone wanting to ride multiple races, on one bike without breaking the laws of physics (or time travel)?
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As it is currently with Pre85, there is nothing in the GCR’s that will stop a Pre78, or EVO bike from running in the Pre85 events. This (in my opinion) is not in the spirit of the class structure. We should be promoting each class on its own merits with matching technology other wise we will have entrants building high end EVO bikes and running them in EVO, Pre85 & Pre90.
IN REFERENCE TO THE ABOVE COMENTS
Guys as i see it riding a twin shock bike in pre 85 is at no advantage as for the not within the spirt part thats a bit harsh as we have seen pre 85 bike with USD forks fitted to them if thats the case then evo bikes riding up a class is not so bad hey maybe guys just dont like twin shock bikes beating their single shock disc brake bikes but i might be wrong in saying this
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i think if you have a 80-84 model evo legal bike ( husky, can am, KTM, suzuki or even a KLX250) i think you shouldnt be forced into EVO and should be able to have the option of of entering EVO or pre 85. I am not saying i personally would want to enter both classes and i dont really care if my EVO legal bike is not ultra competitive against single shock pre 85 bikes. i would just much rather ride a bike in a period defined class not a technology defined class. My bike is a 82 so i want to race against other 1982 bikes not 78-79 model bikes because back then in 78 or 79 i couldnt race a 82 model bike against a 78 or 79 model bike as they were not available yet, so competing in pre 85 makes more sense for me.
i just think there should be an exception to allow any 80-84 bikes which are twinshock,aircooled,drum front to go in pre 85 but i do kinda agree in not allowing 78 model bikes to compete in pre 85. Or i just put a disc front end on my 82 ( if i find one that is legal) and that makes it easy. Aircooled, twin shock but disc front and that means its definitely ok for pre 85 then.
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For me it's just a practicle thing. Most races are over a two hour drive for me (or an overnight stay). So if I'm going to lose a whole Sunday I'd like to get a fair bit of riding done. That means 3-4 classes to get a decent fix. Remember most of them are three lap races. If I have to run two bikes then that's a lot more washing, maintaining and general stuffing about as well as towing a trailer blah, blah ba blah.
It's easier to keep one bike up to race ready than it is for two. It's enjoyable. Once it becomes more work (than it already is) then lawn bowls on the telly or a sleep-in on Sunday starts to look really nice. People really like value for money. They keep coming back for more!
And isn't it a lot nicer having those big starts with all those bikes rather than a half dozen or so.... ;)
* I'm not trying to stamp my feet here and say "I only ever want to ride the one bike forever and ever." When I retire the 414 I will get a Pre 85 single shocker with the lovely brakes etc, etc. But I'm going to want to be able to race it in Pre-90 you can betcha!
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EVO bikes are not technology more advanced that pre85 or 90 bikes and as for period how do you define the difference between say huskys ktm495 maico evo bikes and pre85 the years are so close the technology is the same year just some brands chose to go single shock and some stayed twin shock i say let evo bikes run in both it all comes down to the riders choise he is at no more advantage on a evo bike in pre85 more bikes on the gate is better than less
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If running an Evolution class bike in Pre85 is deemed to be kosher, then scrap Evolution all together and build more capacity / rider age classes into Pre85. This will then satisfy the needs of entrants wanting to ride/race a reasonable amount of events in one race day.
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I'm sure that will probably be the natural progression of things. No arguments here. As long as you can ride up a class (Pre-85 in Pre-90) :)
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Onya Rosco ;)
Using the GCR's as an example;
If you were entering a National Title Event, what would be the result if you entered your 1974 model bike in Pre78 class?
At similar levels, Bikes don't beat Bikes, Riders beat other Riders. As I overhead someone the other night, "That bloke would win on a broom stick" is rather apt.
Let’s get over the competitive nature of whether a twin shock bike is better or worse than a single shock bike.
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pre 85 class was originally instigated for
the new generation linkage suspension
and watercooled bikes there is no reason
a twin shock be it hybrid, husky, ktm,
or whatever cant compete in this class as long as its the class entered for and not a ride up
so do we have the same riders on the same bikes
riding pre78/ evo/85/90
whats the point
if you only have one bike up here in qld at our club days we have
a one bike rider class so the rider gets an extra 3 legs
and we have an all in at the end of the day x 2 heats
so your 1 bike gets 7 races
also what about if your only bike is a pre 85 say a kx500
you cant ride down in evo
so why should they ride up in pre 85
we just introduced pre 90 up here
with fields about 10-15
all of them pre90 no pre 85
most of the people complaining about not being able to ride up a
class have more than one bike anyway i would bet
i have just spent the last year working on 4 bikes for
the nats all in there proper class
how would i feel about someone riding 1 bike in 3 classes
what do you think >:(
if you cant afford another bike borrow one theres heaps of guys in
vintage racing who would lend a bike
and pre 90 bikes are still cheap ;)
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I have two '84 Husky 500s. I think it would be fair & reasonable to turn up with one of them at a club day and ride Evo & pre '85 classes . But for a national title event, I would have to bring both bikes to do this . One of them would have to have an "E" prefix on the numberplates & the other bike would have to have a "Y" prefix.
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Okay Ross, you want to ride up because you cant be bothered washing / maintaining another bike. Leith, you want to ride up because you dont want to stick to the eligibility side of things (flat slide and shocks). You are just trying to change things to suit yourselves is the only thing i can see here. Same as people that want to 'interpret' rules a certain way. To make a bike fit in that clearly doesn't fit. Bill, you have plenty of bikes, just bring another or buy one of those "kettles" :-*.
It is era racing.Each class should show case the era, not an all in .
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Exactly! Stop trying to adjust the rules to suit yourselves and buy another bike to ride another class like everybody else has.
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As Husqvarna were stretching the model life of their bikes back in the 80's, where would CR500 owners be if the machine was manufactured in January 1985 rather than December 1984?
Theoretically you would not be able to ride in Pre85, but still good to go for Evolution.
The GCR’s tell us that the bike is an Evolution bike, even if it was built in 1984.
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No, im not trying to change the rules and nothing on my bike would question eligibilty anyway and would be a hell of a lot more eligible than all the EVO bikes running 2009 made shocks. Flatslides are allowed in evo anyway and so are all my shocks i have, but im actually trying to do the right thing here and have my bike legal for the right class to compete against bikes of the same era. Even if i dont have a flatslide carby, i only want to race my bike with shocks that were available in 82 or pre 85 and i do not want to use shocks newer than 1985 and i dont want to ride EVO with shocks that were not available pre 1980. Its just a personal thing that i want it to be correct for the period. Flatslides were available in 82 so i think its fine i can have one on my 82 but even though they are allowed in Evo, i would not feel right going against bikes like 78 or 79 models when mikuni flatslides were not around then.
I dont think its right to force later model twinshock bikes to compete against 78-79 models, when they are more at home in pre 85, especially the last model twinshock Husqvarnas.
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.... Leith, you want to ride up because you dont want to stick to the eligibility side of things (flat slide and shocks).
I reckon that Leith's attitude is entirely reasonable. The historic road race guys have a rule that says that the bike will be defined by its newest major component - and the same actually applies for us, even though we don't specifically state it.
If he wants to upgrade his Evo bike to pre-85 specs* and race it among the pre-85 bikes, then let him. If we were to say "No, its an Evo bike so you must return it to Evo specs, and race it among the Evo bikes" then he'd probably stay at home, which wouldn't help anyone.
Its no different to someone with a LTR-modified '74 model bike, racing it as a pre-78, rather than pre-75.
HEAVEN allows you to ride up one class per bike. You are strongly encouraged to ride up a capacity class, rather than an era - which I reckon is a good approach because it keeps the racing as a showcase of a particular era.
Of course, if you've got an open class bike, then your second ride is in the newer era.
Personally, I think that the cost of building & running a second bike is minimal compared to the on-going costs of getting to events, entry fees, etc etc - and having a second bike at the races also means that even a major mechanical disaster doesn't end the fun early.
*The funny thing is that the shocks and flat-slide aren't enough to bump it out of the Evo class anyhow. But you see my point.
Edit I type too slowly - Leith's pointed this out himself since I started typing.
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Whilst this thread has strayed from the original theme of discussing the virtues of Pre90, it has highlighted that Evolution & Pre85 are not defined enough to even consider how to structure a Pre90 class.
You don’t build a house with shoddy foundations, if you do it will all come falling down in the future. What I am trying to get across is that we need to have the foundations of the sport fixed first - The GCR's. After that the rest is relatively easy.
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Whilst this thread has strayed from the original thread of discussing the virtues of Pre90, it has highlighted that Evolution & Pre85 are not defined enough to even consider how to structure a Pre90 class.
You don’t build a house with shoddy foundations, if you do it wall all come falling down in the future. What I am trying to get across is that we need to have the foundations of the sport fixed first - The GCR's. After that the rest is relatively easy.
But its not rocket science. Its only people that want to push their own wheel barrow that have a problem with it all..
My point with regards to Leith is only that he wants to ride his evo in pre 85 , from what i can gather is because he wants to put era correct sort of shocks on his bike ( which i dont really understand at all). I would think if you want to be an era purist its all the way i would have thought? Is that what you are saying Leith?
Another thing is that when eligibility issues come up, common sence seems to go out the window .
I say again. VMX is about ERA racing/ riding. Otherwise lets just make it open slather and let people ride where ever they want. Just so someone doesn't get the shits and stay home.
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upgrade his Evo bike to pre-85 specs
thats just it, im not really upgrading my 82 model pre 85 specs anyway. It will be built with parts available in 82 and since theres no rules on what shocks you can have in EVO and flatslide carbs are allowed i could enter either class if i wanted, its just that i would prefer to be in pre 85 because the parts on my 82 fit that period better for me in a personal/historical view, but yes i could enter EVO and have an advantage against some of the older EVO bikes, but i dont want to do that. What would be good is a 80-84 model twinshock class but i guess there would never be enough bikes to run a class like that, so thats why i wouldnt mind having to compete against 80-84 single shockers.
VMX is about ERA racing/ riding
Yes thats exactly right so why should late model twinshock bikes be made to compete against the older last of the 1970's bikes? Its doesnt make sense to me having a 1984 twinshock against a 1978.
ok i will shut up now :)
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Sorry mate but i just dont see your reasoning. :-\ Your pre 85 shocks can still be at a disadvantage if another evo had shiny new Ohlins. Surely rider ability is the biggest advantage that can be had. Clearly your bike is evo legal so the logical and common sense answer is to run it in evo. They are single shock bikes that are visually different bar a small few that almost never come to a race meeting.
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Evo is an era, it doesn't matter what year the bike was built. It is the last of the aircooled, twin shocked or non linkage, drum brake model bikes. How could it be more fairer than that??
That's what makes the Evo class appealing and all the bikes are reasonably well matched once set up.
To my way of thinking a bike loses some of it's vintage identity once it has water cooling, single shock and disc brakes but i'm happy to support and ride the pre '85 and pre '90 classes.
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It is era racing.Each class should show case the era, not an all in .
But my bike is from that era! How the fug can I be changing the rules? ::) It's nit-picking to the nighth degree. Yeah. ok at a NATS level it's not cricket but for State events like Viper, Heaven and such you guys can't be serious about this? Sounds like the fun police are back in town.
Borrowing bikes!? as if that doesn't cause enough problems with lap scoring and the like? Ask any lap scorer.. .....
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Sorry. I read the bit that was here totally wrong..... :-X
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If I have to run two bikes then that's a lot more washing, maintaining and general stuffing about as well as towing a trailer blah, blah ba blah.
This is what i am referring to. You say you want to only ride one bike in at least two classes. Does your bike fit into at least two different eras?
Not wanting to wash a second bike is not a reason. If the majority thought the same way., we would have all in capacity races all day.
That would be crap too.
Sounds like the fun police are back in town
Let go bud, thats so old.
Sorry. I read the bit that was here totally wrong..... Lips sealed
I take it you are referring to my post which i have tried to clarify again here.
Your going to have to get over what it is that shits you so much about me so you can look at my posts in an objective manner. I am not an angry person or a shit stirrer.
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Exactly! Stop trying to adjust the rules to suit yourselves and buy another bike to ride another class like everybody else has.
Again. I don't see where I'm adjusting any rules! In 1985 I could have ridden a 1981 bike. In 1985 I could have ridden a 1984 bike.
In fact as the eras become more modern is anyone really going to notice a Pre-85 bike competing in Pre-90.
I doubt it.
Also what is so wrong with making racing accesible and enjoyable for people? I'm not highly modifying a bike or such to gain an advantage. I'm trying to have the most fun I can for the day for my money! Send me to Haig straight away!
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Does your bike fit into at least two different eras?
I thought we said Evo isn't an era? My bike fits into Evo (twin-shock blah, blah) and it's a Pre-85 bike.
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Okay cool. I look at it this way. Its not modern mx where its just capacities that define classes. Its the vintage scene that is completely different.
It is era racing that preserves each era and makes those bikes special. When you watch an evo race, its great to see long travel twin shocks all running around together. Its own time capsule in itself. That is an example that is true with any race. For me THAT is what vmx is about. That preservation, the fact that you can watch a race and feel like you have gone back in time to that era. Can you visualize what i am trying to say?
And its when other bikes from other eras in the mix get in there, the whole era feeling gets lost in my eyes.
Does your bike fit into at least two different eras?
I thought we said Evo isn't an era? My bike fits into Evo (twin-shock blah, blah) and it's a Pre-85 bike.
Right so you have a minority bike, that is why i asked. I suppose you have a choice to ride either or both. Not many others would have that option and you should be the exception to the rule same as a Husky or CZ and others that fall in that category. But you wont see bugger all of those bikes in reality, including yours i would imagine.
Evo isn't an era? I missed that one. I take it because there is no cut off dates. Still looks like an era when they line up as there are no real odd balls in there ( not that i have seen anyway)
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A pre '85 bike is one that doesn't fit into Evo because of a single shock or watercooling or disc brakes. If your bike has aircooling, drum brakes and 2 shocks then it fits into the Evo category but if you want to ride it in pre '85 instead then go for it.
All Evo bikes were made pre '85 but that doesn't mean they are not Evo bikes.
Pick a class and ride one or the other.
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If its so hard why have evo. Just have pre 80.
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Evo was introduced when the only other classes were pre 75 and earlier.
There was no pre 78 or pre 85 and the Evo class was introduced to cater for later model bikes that still looked like vintage bikes with 2 shocks, air cooling etc.
It has simple rules and has been very popular so it's been left as it is.
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Pick a class and ride one or the other.
Not whilst the rules say I dont have to.......
It must really turn you guys inside-out when an Enduro bike enters your races. :D
I hope some old guy turns up to your next one on an old PE with blue guards, all the lights and indicators and no peak on his helmet...... ;)
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I don't give a toss who enters our races, enduro trials or whatever. I often see PE's and IT's on the startline.
The rules say you can't ride up a class so if you pick Evo you aint ridin pre '85.. Simple.
I only wish you would come to Qld so i can ride an enduro bike and kick your arse!
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Hold the fort while I go and get some Popcorn! ;D
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Hold the fort while I go and get some Popcorn! ;D
Ha ha.. that's it from me. Got bikes to get ready for next weekend. :)
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All Evo bikes were made pre '85...
Actually, that's not quite right -there's plenty of post-84 Evo legal bikes. DT175s, 513 CZs, CT110s ( ;) ), TS185ERs, XL185s, etc.
For Evo and Pre-85, the actual year of manufacture does matter because neither class has 'follow on' model provisions.
The more I think about it, the more I think that Evo should actually be pre-81. As much as I think that Evo is a brilliant concept (structuring the regs around technology criteria rather than age), while it is the only class that's defined like that, it creates a truck load of dramas (as this thread demonstrates).
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I'll agree with you on most things there Nathan but a lot of us bought Evo specific bikes to suit the class and we also have pre 85 bikes.
A change in class would leave many people and many bikes out in the cold('81 models).
Evo has worked very well at the race meetings for many years, the only place it isn't working is here on the forum..
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Yeah, I agree - its too late to change things. My wording would have been better if I'd said that "evo should have been pre-81 instead".
Just thinking out loud, what bikes would be disadvantaged if Evo was replaced by pre-81?
YZ250/465H.
Various (but not all) 81~84 Huskys.
PE250.
81 KXes?
81 Maicos.
Anything else?
The YZ465H would be pre-81 eligible as a carry-over model, and arguably the 250H would also be.
The 81/82 IT250/465s would be carry-over models.
I assume that the non-white tank Huskys would be carry over models (right/wrong?).
It wouldn't be hard to list the post-1980 built bikes that aren't pre-81 legal, and make them specifically eligible.
Remember: I'm just thinking out loud here.
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Just read this thread then looked outside to see the sky has fallen.....
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Skyisfalling-1.jpg)
Stats for the 2009 Nats
Pre 85 entries total inc sidecars 70
Pre 75 entries total inc 4 strokes 166 ;)
Source Qvmx site
Yep those pre 75 dinosuars are dying out :D
Doesn't that prove that the later classes aren’t killing off the earlier classes ?
Riding up a class usually isn't allowed, but as Pre 90 is a club level class then the club can choose to run it anyway they see fit.
Evo is that odd class out compared to all the other classes that are defined by year, so personally I don’t see a problem with these bikes running in multiple classes.
You can please some of the people some of the time…..
"Evo has worked very well at the race meetings for many years, the only place it isn't working is here on the forum.."
That goes with many of the supposed problems.
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You hit the nail on the head several times there Geoff. :)
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look what you started rls840 you troublemaker, how dare you even mention the term Pre'90 in N.S.W. lol.
The rules really aren't all that complicated, it's people with their own selfish agendas that make them complicated. Do they ride up classes in Historic road racing? I don't think so. It's simple, ride your bike in it's class. If you want to ride another class, buy a bike that qualifies.
Now, back the original post, we seem to have trouble focussing here.
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Despite Magoos pathetically transparent attempt to get me involved by once again slamming my beloved Kevin Rudd, I've deliberately stayed out of this debate as every time I offer up my thoughts they're (wrongly) taken that I'm anti pre 90. I'm tired of trying to get my point through as people from both sides of the argument only read their own wrong interpretation into what I've said.
"Evo has worked very well at the race meetings for many years, the only place it isn't working is here on the forum.." That goes with many of the supposed problems.
Hallelujah Geoff!! Why do people keep trying to find holes in an already perfect class? The Evo classes very success is based on its simplicity so why complicate things. It's the same with those trying to find reasons for bikes not to be eligible for pre 65 than finding ways of getting more bikes out there. Methinks there are way too many cyber philosophers, personal agenda jockeys and rule pedants looking for crap to whinge about and not getting out there and building a bike to what rules are there and enjoying the experience.
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Welcome to the debate big fella, I was shattered when you ignored my baiting. I knew your soft spot for Kevin 747 and still that didn't work, I thought you might have been one of the true believers cheering his every word at the A.L.P. conference this week. Now your back I'm happy. Are you one of the 50,000 green workers he's putting on?
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note to self: Ignore the silly old facist and take a drive out to Nepean.
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Good old Magoo, the Forum Fisherman with a bucket full of bait and a surf Rod reeling them in.he should be in Vicco since he loves VB & pre 90 ;) Stay out in the deep water Firko, resist that Bait.
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I don't know about that "should be in Vicco" comment. Every time I come down there you blokes get me drunk and take advantage of me.
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That would explain the way you walk.
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I don't know about that "should be in Vicco" comment. Every time I come down there you blokes get me drunk and take advantage of me.
:D as for the drunk bit, from what i have seen its bloody voluntary !
the advantage part would be that Kilt wearing, haggis munching scotsman Macca bloke for sure. ;D
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So.... Sorry to start you off boys. But i dont think I'm any closer to understanding if Pre 90 VMX or MX is going to happen. I was warned!! LOL
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Hey RLS how about you post ups some pics of your nice CR250RG !
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Hey Hoony
I resemble that comment,
Macca
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No Worries Hoony. Will do!
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I must admit that this post has shown rls what he's in for. As to the original question, yes, it will happen, not this year, maybe not next year but by the year after that if the Pre '90 afficianados have any balls it is inevitable
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As for you mr Macca, who told Hoony about that special time we spent together? Blabbermouth!!
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It will never happen Mike their all wind and piss
Long live the good old boys looking forward to the next 20 yrs of the Classic scramble club
Sorry a man has a night off amd Magoo reveals the 'dark side' along with more of the same
Dont worry Mike the revolution is coming mate.
and finally oh Ira stop sucking up...... ;)
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I see my brothers trophies for 1st place pre 85 and Evo from the AUSTRALIAN TITLES 2008.. It was on the same bike, a 81 490 Maico :o which is legal for both classes. ;D
For our family, it was a weekend of good racing, good people and good fun.. Thats why we all went. Thats what VMX should be about. If the bike fits legally into the class requirements, ride it! more track time, more riders in the race.. win win. yee haa
Johnny "O" are u related to Jazzy "O"? maybe u should bring your arse down south and give us all a riding lesson.. after all.. sounds like that arse can ride :-*
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll133/mxmaniac05/tassie08048.jpg)
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I don't give a toss who enters our races, enduro trials or whatever. I often see PE's and IT's on the startline.
The rules say you can't ride up a class so if you pick Evo you aint ridin pre '85.. Simple.
I only wish you would come to Qld so i can ride an enduro bike and kick your arse!
Are you bringing that enduro bike to VIC for next years Aust titles?
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It will never happen Mike their all wind and piss
Long live the good old boys looking forward to the next 20 yrs of the Classic scramble club
Sorry a man has a night off amd Magoo reveals the 'dark side' along with more of the same
Dont worry Mike the revolution is coming mate.
and finally oh Ira stop sucking up...... ;)
Wind & Piss Liz Wind & piss ::)
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I've seen Johnny O ride and yes, he can back it up.
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I'd gladly ride my 490 Maico in Evo and Pre 85 if i was able but the rules at the titles state you can't ride up a class. I don't make the rules Einstein, i'll take more than 1 bike and do it by the book.
Who the fork are you.. 414's bitch?
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I don't give a toss who enters our races, enduro trials or whatever. I often see PE's and IT's on the startline.
The rules say you can't ride up a class so if you pick Evo you aint ridin pre '85.. Simple.
I only wish you would come to Qld so i can ride an enduro bike and kick your arse!
[/quote]
Are you bringing that enduro bike to VIC for next years Aust titles?
[/quote]
Its not simple at all as the confusion on this thread shows.As long as you have 2 class's with based ondifferent criteia , one on the year of manufacture and the other on the state of technological developement, that overlap. Then riders like the Baker boys and thier Maico's , Geoff Ballard , Ross Nimmo to name a few will be able to ride both class's unless the one bike per class rule is applied.Then if your have two bikes the same you can still ride both class's and you will still have twin shock bikes racing against linkaged pre 85 bikes .I can't see the issue with that .Back in the day I raced a 1980 model twin shock against single shock bikes the following year.In the US Billy Grossi was campaining a twin shock Husky against single shock jap bike.Denny Shartz won a national in the early eighties on a twin shocked Maico.Mike Guerra rode twin shock Huskies in the 250GP's well into the eighties against the single shock works bikes from Japan.KENT HOWERTON RIDING A TWIN SHOCK SUZUKI WON THE US250GP AGAINST SINGLE SHOCK BIKES INCLUDING THE SINGLE SHOCK WORKS SUZUKI'S THAT THE EURO'S HAD.Hakan Carlqvist continued to ride a non linkage YZM against single shock Honda's,Suzuki's and Kawasaki's.
For those who don't want to see single and twin shock bikes in the same race.What era are you trying to recreate?
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I see my brothers trophies for 1st place pre 85 and Evo from the AUSTRALIAN TITLES 2008.. It was on the same bike, a 81 490 Maico :o which is legal for both classes. ;D
For our family, it was a weekend of good racing, good people and good fun.. Thats why we all went. Thats what VMX should be about. If the bike fits legally into the class requirements, ride it! more track time, more riders in the race.. win win. yee haa
Johnny "O" are u related to Jazzy "O"? maybe u should bring your arse down south and give us all a riding lesson.. after all.. sounds like that arse can ride :-*
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll133/mxmaniac05/tassie08048.jpg)
GREAT SHOT MAN. I WISH THAT I HAD SEEN IT REAL.
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Motomaniac i agree that an evo twin shock bike is more than capable in pre 85. It doesn't bother me putting twin shock and single shock bikes together.
Ballard has done it the smart way for the nats and entered 2 different twin shock maico's, 1 for evo and 1 for pre 85. Can't see anything wrong with doing that going by the rule book.
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To add to my previous post , here in OZ the ledgend himself Steve Gall won two Mister Motocross titles on an Evolution class Yamaha beating the single shock Kawi's of Trevor Williams as well as full floater Suzukis and Prolinked Honda's in 80/81.
GEEZ I WOULDNT WANT TO SEE THAT AGAIN.IT WAS QUITE SHOCKING AS I REMEMBER. :P
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Motomaniac i agree that an evo twin shock bike is more than capable in pre 85. It doesn't bother me putting twin shock and single shock bikes together.
Ballard has done it the smart way for the nats and entered 2 different twin shock maico's, 1 for evo and 1 for pre 85. Can't see anything wrong with doing that going by the rule book.
Me neither but its seems to be a problem for some - I don't think that riding a 83 Husky or a 81 Maico in pre 85 is riding up a class or that riding up a class or two class's for that matter is an issue.
BTW down here pre 78 and pre 85 came before EVO
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There is no confusion. Just people with their own agenda. The agenda we are discussing is riding one bike in two or more classes. It really is a given that an mc490 is an evo bike. Then because the rule book doesn't dot the I's and cross the T's, its also a pre 85 bike. Then some people want to take advantage of that.
What era are you trying to recreate?
For me and i think for the people that wrote the rules, having bikes that look the same and are as equal as possible in performance, both suspension and technology.
Motomaniac i agree that an evo twin shock bike is more than capable in pre 85. It doesn't bother me putting twin shock and single shock bikes together.
Ballard has done it the smart way for the nats and entered 2 different twin shock maico's, 1 for evo and 1 for pre 85. Can't see anything wrong with doing that going by the rule book.
I personally have a small problem with that. But its just a niggle, not 'the sky is falling ' type of thing.
So do the people that want to ride one bike only have one RACE bike ( not a bike that sits in the shed collecting dust), as i am really wondering why this is. Are you guys too tight to buy a second bike?
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Can a pre 75 or pre 78 bike ride in pre 85?
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Can a pre 75 or pre 78 bike ride in pre 85?
can a pre 78 bike ride EVO? It fits both class's same as a 81 maico or 83/84 Husky fits 2 class's.
Whats the advantage Brad ? If one of the Baker Boys on an EVO legal Maico boys beats me on my prolinked ,frDisc Honda then I know it was the rider - although having said that I do remember that MXA voted the 490 Maico motor as the best ever in the 2 stroke era.
Until the gcr's go either year specific or techno specific there will always be the possibility that a good rider on an 80's somthing Evo bike will win the pre 85 class.
The Evo idea as far as I recall was poached from the US ( Rick Dougherty's series) .The US in some series's at least has techno specific class's only now , divided into around 4 catergories .I for Evo , 1 for no discs but linkages allowed , 1 with linkage and disc but no USD forks or something like that.Im not sure exactly.
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Down here we also have 4 stroke Evo with a few 77 model HL500's .So they can race 4 stroke evo ,pre 78 and evo over 300.
For the Nats I suppose these guys have had to chose 1 class but who's going to tell them tat they can only ride one class in VIPER.Not Me .
Gee I wonder why our VIPER series and VCM series are going so well lately???
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and that is where the confusion with new riders to vmx may start- as when they get to the entry form for a Nationals it all goes haywire :-\ just my opinion that's all. ;D
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Whats the advantage Brad ?
I keep harping on about eras Brent. Nothing to do with who beats who on what.Keeping a bike where it belongs in its era.As i have said, vmx show cases each era in each class.
I am sure that the rule makers never made the rules so people can ride anywhere they want. They wouldn't have bothered making classes then.
The only reasons i have read as to why someone wants to ride up/ in a different era is because they dont want to wash/ maintain a second bike and because of the suspension that is preferred.Neither of those will sway me.
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The EVO idea goes back as far as 1984 acutally. We also discussed it in late 1992 in the Texas Vintage Racing Club. BTW-in the US you can always bump up an era-and that makes things more economical, though I agree about pre-78 bein ONLY 75-77 bikes-as IMO those bikes need to be protetced in classes in order to be preseved.
Some of the offshoot clubs here have an "EVO" for 75-81 or so model bikes-too many eras together-and I promise you I would be a second a lap quicker on a 78 400 Maico than 77.
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hi here in tas we can ride up any class i often race pre 75 here and my rides it in pre80 we don't have evo class just pre 75 ,80, 85 plus some age groups to me it's all about numbers of bikes the more the better .If someone entered it in evo and another person enterd the same bike but different rider in pre 85 whats the difference not every one can afford two or more bikes it's not a sport just for the elites or the rich cheers
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not every one can afford two or more bikes it's not a sport just for the elites or the rich
That is such a load of rubbish. Im not rich, just a dirty old pool tiler. This would have to be the cheapest form of motor sport . You can spend as little or as much( if you are rich and elite) as you want. I have a race ready cr125m1 thats a $700 special. Where else can you spend so little and go racing?
Here is a bike for evo 125 you can have for not much more than a grand.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/1978-Yamaha-YZ125E_W0QQitemZ250467924984QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Motorcycles?hash=item3a510d3bf8&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/1978-Yamaha-YZ125E_W0QQitemZ250467924984QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Motorcycles?hash=item3a510d3bf8&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)
Is there anyone that agrees with me that vmx has classes to preserve the eras? Having different bikes in different eras just seems like a big cock up to me.
to me it's all about numbers of bikes the more the better
So buy another budget bike and race a different era.
I seem to have taken this thread on as my own and am getting a bit to 'passionate'. Time to let go and go down the shed.
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Not only does vmx have classes to preserve certain eras but they are grouped that way so basically every bike in that group is competitive and not dominated by any particular model.
Bikes changed so much from year to year through the 70's and early 80's that models were quickly outdated and replaced by new bikes with big improvements so it's important they have their own era classes.
Most states are getting healthy numbers in most classes so there really is no need to ride up a class
especially in Evo and pre '85.
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I prefer Piss and wind Ira
Piss and wind.......
Dont worry I will lend you a kettle to ride mate-the real dark side of the force
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I will have a nice little yellow kettle for you to try on in QLD Bill.
Wait a minute , didn,t Suzy 43 sell a kettle down Taupo way a while back?
I see Magoo is riding a red kettle in the 125's at the Nat's.....I feel sorry for that little bike!
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Magoo on a 125 now thats cruelty to machinery.
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Can someone protest on the machines behalf?
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what i meant was not any body can go and buy another another bike even at $ 700 to $1000 bracket i did not say u are rich was just referring in general that not every can afford to buy another bike that's why there was no topic or person addressed cheers
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Parts are starting to get hard to find for some pre 90's as well.
Some gears are NLA for my 87 KX 250.
& I have had a few enquiries about pipes for some models lately as some of the big players (Pro-Circuit) apparently aren't interested in making pipes for them any more.
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Down here we also have 4 stroke Evo with a few 77 model HL500's .So they can race 4 stroke evo ,pre 78 and evo over 300.
I would love to see 4 stroke Evo as a class in the rulebook. After all , pre '75 gets to have a 4 stroke class . Then I could bring out my 510 Husky or Can Am Sonic to play . I'm sure that they would be more than a match for any HL500 . It would just be the rider holding them back :) .
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(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll133/mxmaniac05/tassie08140.jpg)
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll133/mxmaniac05/tassie08070.jpg)
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll133/mxmaniac05/dadsbikes002.jpg)
It was a great event motomaniac, well worth the trip. You will see one of dads old evo/pre85 ktm 495s in the back ground of that first shot.. he sold it to a gentleman in tassie. A tassie legend!
I wish i had not of had a busted shoulder and could of had a roll around, it killed me watching. I just wanted to lay into a couple of them loamy berms.. :'( bike or not, the dirt looked sweet..
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what i meant was not any body can go and buy another another bike even at $ 700 to $1000 bracket i did not say u are rich was just referring in general that not every can afford to buy another bike that's why there was no topic or person addressed cheers
I'm all for keeping motorsport as affordable as possible, and I hate it when people say crap like "Well, motorsport is expensive you know".
But I really have to wonder how many people can afford to go racing, but can't afford $700 for another bike. If you look at what it costs to go racing (licence, club membership, fuel for the bike(s), fuel for the car, riding gear, entry fee, accomodation, etc), then I can't see $700 breaking anyone.
Particularly when its $700 for a tangible asset that can be resold if money really is that tight.
I've spent a couple of hours today, tarting up the blue YZ125E/DT175/IT175 hybrid that I dragged back from Harrow. It looks like it will owe me $300 (and some favours to Tony and Freaky) to get to a 'race ready' condition.
OK, so its not a sexy bike, and its not going to win any Evo 250 races - but it will be another ride at a race meet, which is what we're talking about, isn't it?
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I'd gladly ride my 490 Maico in Evo and Pre 85 if i was able but the rules at the titles state you can't ride up a class. I don't make the rules Einstein, i'll take more than 1 bike and do it by the book.
Who the fork are you.. 414's bitch?
I am 414's pimp.. but i happy to be his bitch..
Is it riding up a class or down a class? i think its called enjoying riding in any class we legally can ride in. When the rule book changes, we can then follow that and ride in what ever they say we can enter in. I race the 490 against the 2009 model bikes down here... thats riding up 20 classes :o Me bad
I dont think People cant comment on other peoples financial situation.. I dont own a running VMX bike at the moment, so i ride what i can in what ever i can, and enjoy every bit of it.
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Suzuki 43 there are others up here who want modern why dont you start something, call alister
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I've seen Johnny O ride and yes, he can back it up.
I dont doubt it in the slightest.. I just hope to follow and learn something from the guy ;)
What classes are you all riding at the nats? Be interesting to gauge the forum talent between all the states.
I hope the good old Vic boys can shake them up in a few classes... again..
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Who is that on #54? Lookin good on the best evo bike out there. :)
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Who is that on #54? Lookin good on the best evo bike out there. :)
Ha ha its Hitler on his pre85 stead;)
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Evo unless it's got a hidden disc brake, watercooling or a dummy shock.
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No I'm pretty sure I've seen that bike in BOTH classes. :o
Evo & Pre85?
Yes those two classes :o :o
Two on the one bike?
Yes two :)
But that's not allowed is it? ???
IT FUGGIN' WELL IS HERE!! ;D ;D ;D
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No I'm pretty sure I've seen that bike in BOTH classes. :o
Two Classes :o :o
Yes two :)
But that's not allowed is it? ???
IT FUGGIN' WELL IS HERE!! ;D ;D ;D
No worries.. I don't make make the rules, just try to compete within them. :)
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ThaNK gOD FOR THAT that!
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ThaNK gOD FOR THAT that!
Ha.. that's the pot calling the kettle black.
I'd hate to think what we'd be riding if you had anything to do with the rules! ;D
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ThaNK gOD FOR THAT that!
Ha.. that's the pot calling the kettle black.
I'd hate to think what we'd be riding if you had anything to do with the rules! ;D
we would have plenty of track time!
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Looking at the riders list i don't see Hitlers name anywhere. What happened, did the Evo bike break down?
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Hitler only races for fun, has raced once this year and has other things on the go. He couldn't stand to see that protest flag gettin worn out by all the girls up there :P
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Protest flag?? WTF is that? No such thing in Qld.
All the noise about not liking the rules is comin from down there.
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Our racing down here is very healthy, everyone has a blast, lots of laps and plenty of bar banging.. couldn't ask for any better.. Dont hear any complaints from me..
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Our racing down here is very healthy, everyone has a blast, lots of laps and plenty of bar banging.. couldn't ask for any better.. Dont hear any complaints from me..
Good to hear, much the same up here.
Always loved riding down at Barrabool when they had Evo's in the Thumper Nats.
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Ok lets just say at a club level run what you want.
But at a OZnats level, the bike's should match the class, the rules and INTENT of the rule's were written for.
Cheers
Noel
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I haven't taken the time to read this whole thread, like any good mag, I start at the back page and flip through the pages until I get to the front.
So I'm not sure if there has been any explanation for the "No ride up" rule. This one has been around QVMX forever now, it was originally insigated in the days before pre '85 and '90 and maybe even before pre '78. When riding up was accepted practice, there was a rumbling from the evo ranks (and rightly so) that guys coming on there pre '70 bikes paid the same entry fee and got to ride their class plus the two above them, but the evo guys had no where to "ride up" too. So someone was getting more rides than someone else for the same sign on fee.
What was the solution to this problem? Initally they tried charging an extra $5 per class to ride the same bike in more than one class, that didn't go down well, so the "no ride up" rule was bought in, so everyone got the same bang for their buck, plus "all in" races where added to the program to satisfy those who just couldn't get enough.
Got any better ideas?
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Bazza thanks mate we are on the case Liz
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if everyone in evo 250 and open
rode up in pre85
what would be the point of having pre85
may as well call it evo a evo b ::)
same deal for pre 78 and pre 90
sure if you have a club day and the numbers are down do what you like
we dont have ride up at our club days as we normally get good numbers
and just run in designated classes
the nats are different not a club day
90 % of riders abide by this rule its just the few who want to stir the pot
how hard is it its not rocket science
pre85 mainly linkage and watercooled
most husky riders ride evo anyway
okay say we let all the evo open guys ride up in pre 85 at the nats
they would all have to qualify because of increased numbers
and a lot of riders would miss out
imagine if you were a pre85 rider it was your only bike and you didnt qualify
because a heap of evo riders who have ridden up pushed you out
and if they dont qualify it doesnt matter they can still race in evo
like i said club days ok nats no >:(
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Protest flag?? WTF is that? No such thing in Qld.
All the noise about not liking the rules is comin from down there.
Johnny O read through again , read the above post from QLD read 090 from QLD.All things 414, mxmaniac, motomaniac and Kaw440 are all victorians who say that PRE 85 bike is a PRE 85 bike is a PRE 85 bike.
090.Holeshot buddy and few others from QLD seem to think that a PRE85 bike is not a PRE 85 bike if it happens to also be an EVO bike.They also seem to think that an EVO bike riding in the PRE 85 class is riding up a class.Which it is not because the PRE 85 class isnt a linkage bike class it is a PRE 85 class.The only bikes that could ride up a class into pre 85 are pre 78 and lower bikes.Any bike evo or not that is not a pre 78 bike and not a pre 90 bike is a pre 85 bike.Thats how the GCR'S are at the moment .So whats the problem with your mates ? The Victorians aren't jumping up and down about this the QLDers are.The Victorians aren't jumping up and down about riding one bike in two class's - the QLDers came up with that.
090 Brad wants to preserve an era and doesn't want evo bikes racing pre 85 yet from 1980 to 1984 linkage bikes and evo bikes co existed and raced side by side.
The Victorians that I mention are saying preserve the era by all means - that means preserving it as it was.
By the way #54 who won two class's on one bike last year does have two open class evo Maico's so if he wanted to ride both evo and pre 85 like last year the one bike pre class rule wouldn't have stopped him as someone else hinted at earlier.
JohhnO maybe you should come down here for some fun racing -0-- strictly by the GCR's of course.
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what i was saying is if you want to enter a maico 490
or a husky or a hybrid whatever in pre 85 thats ok
but you cant ride down a class in evo
you must ride in pre 85 on the day
the fact is you say maicos and yz465s and huskys competed against
linkage watercooled bikes in 82 83 84 if thats the case
then i can ride my 83 kx500 in evo
but i cant because of the rules
that period was when i raced
i dont remember anyone racing twin shock after 82
apart from a few rare huskys
the majority were on single shock
and i raced in victoria
from 78 to 91
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They also seem to think that an EVO bike riding in the PRE 85 class is riding up a class.
Which it is not because the PRE 85 class isnt a linkage bike class it is a PRE 85
So why have an EVO class? More rides I guess.
Your grid for the PRE85 250 race must have 60-70 bikes in it. ours would.
Cheers
Noel
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Motomaniac i'll have to have another look at the GCR's. I assumed a pre '85 bike is one that doesn't fit the Evo category because of disc, single shock etc. otherwise it's a confusing f#*k up if both classes overlap.
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Bit like a bidding frenzy at an auction isn't it ;D
Wonder who will have the final bid ;D
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Before EVO came in a year or 2 ago in vic, the 81 490 husky 414 etc, could only run in pre85..
As that was the class it fitted in. Thats why i think its drummed into us that them bikes are pre85 bikes.
When evo came about, it was a class that was what i believe, designated for a bike that came standard with twin shock drum brake? Which obviously was a class that these bikes could run in legally. So to myself and probably other vics, its as normal as vegimite and cheese to be able to run in both classes. I have never heard anyone complain about it on race day, from the TASSIE NATIONALS or Victorian series. I am not used too having to have the rules and regs on ya bar pad, under your peak and in your goggles to know whats what at a new race meeting, as i couldn't give a F$#@ who i ride against, u can have the trophy and bragging rights, i just want to enjoy the fun and banter of VMX.
If some rule book junkie had of jacked up and did something about it at Tassie when it supposed to matter the most, it would of been all understood and dead and buried on the 1st day of racing. The oppertunity was there to make a perfect example of the 81 490 riding up or down a class, but why didn't anyone? Then you would of all been able to sleep at night.
Where were you all when the nationals were on at Tassie? Why didn't you guys put the issue too bed on that weekend? I gather you were all there as you wouldn't want to miss something that is so importants to u? "THE NATS".. or is it only important now because its QLD ???
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Ok i just had a quick look at the rulebook and it says pre '85 is all machines built up to and including '84 models. It doesn't say from when?
Evo doesn't have a year period so does that mean any bike built before 1985 is elligible to race pre 85??
Mxmaniac i think this evo/pre 85 thing has only become an issue lately because we're used to not riding up a class and you guys are used to being able to do it.
Apparently this is also the first year you are not able to at the Nats either. It's all new to me, i haven't ridden the Nats since '94 and there was no evo then.
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Bit like a bidding frenzy at an auction isn't it ;D
Wonder who will have the final bid ;D
Jump in Geoff .Wheres ya 2 bobs worth? Got anything against Ballard on his Maico going at it with Belly on my old CR500?
Or what if Gally,Williams ,Gunter,Bettle Bailey.Peter Benson , Peter Carney ,Andrwe Bailey,Darryl Willoughby,Vaughn Styles turned up for the Nats with there old rides.Would you want to see that or would you tell Gally and the others Yam Guys that nono you guys are racing with all the Maico's and Huskies .Virile ,Pete Carney and co are in with Gunt and Williams?
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the trouble with pre 85 is you cant say
must have disc brake as a lot of 84 models still
had drums and you cant say linkage as a
watercooled husky twin shock would have no class
we initiated pre85 for the gcrs up here in qld
it was originally designed for 81 to 84 machines
mainly mono shock
i raced at coffs there was no evo or pre85
couldnt make tassie
will probably go to vicco next year
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Rusty the problem with the gcr's is that it doesn't say '81 to '84 models or anything specific.
It says machines built up to and including '84 models.
The rules should have said machines built up to '84 that don't fit into the Evo category.
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Rusty the problem with the gcr's is that it doesn't say '81 to '84 models or anything specific.
It says machines built up to and including '84 models.
The rules should have said machines built up to '84 that don't fit into the Evo category.
I dont read the rules either. The reality is common sense versus what i can get away with via a loop hole. Common sense says that bikes are put in their eras to race against each other. Because of the wording you have pointed out ,someone with his own agenda can turn it around to suit themselves. Yes im a Queenslander but i would feel the same way no matter where i lived.
As far as back in the day stuff Motomaniac, i raced back then myself . I can only speak about Qld racing, but if you didn't have the latest, you weren't in the race. Whether they were better or just psychologically better who knows but twin shocks were all over as soon as single shocks were available. If there was a twin shock the guy was generally a sweeper rider. In 1981 there was a bit of an overlap as some were 'behind the times', but not the way you make out as if it was a 50 50 till near mid eighties (that is the picture you are painting). With the rules the way they are i can ride my '69 cz360 in pre '85. But that is ridiculous.
I am not a rule book nazi at all. I just am a bit fed up with people that twist the rules that are simple therefore floored to suit themselves.That is all that it is, plain and simple. And it all happens on this forum.
So i am not quoting the rule book, it looks like you guys have studied it to find away around what you want to do on a race day (like i said LOOKS like).
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If the GCRs said post 80 to pre 85 and evo was post 78 pre 81. How many biks would this exclude? I can only think of 1. 79 Mugen ME 125. What would thoughts be on that. Dont take this as an attack. Dont start throwing s**t. Just a sugestion to a problem that is here. Or come up with resonable sugestion NOT to suit yourself but to suit the sport.
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I think JohnnyO hit the nail on the head this time, Vic. evolved in one direction & Qld. another.
Depends on what your used to as to what you consider right.
Neither view is really all that wrong & it gets to be like arguing if a glass is half full or half empty.
I'm no fan of guys that look for loopholes to justify something for themselves, but this is a section that isn't written all that clearly.
Not wanting to maintain another bike isn't a valid reason to want to mix Evo & Pre 85
Nor is "he gets more rides than me" a valid reason to keep them separate.
I bought up 2 teenagers that would always complain the other got more ice cream or more playstation time, I really couldn't give a fork.
Pre 85 is a legit class & I'm all for Pre 90 at club level but it's the older bikes that are the real classics so if the older bikes are getting more rides then that is a good thing as it encourages guys to get something older.
What say we go back to debating how evil Pre 90 is ;D
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Before EVO came in a year or 2 ago in vic, the 81 490 husky 414 etc, could only run in pre85..
As that was the class it fitted in. Thats why i think its drummed into us that them bikes are pre85 bikes.
When evo came about, it was a class that was what i believe, designated for a bike that came standard with twin shock drum brake? Which obviously was a class that these bikes could run in legally. So to myself and probably other vics, its as normal as vegimite and cheese to be able to run in both classes. I have never heard anyone complain about it on race day, from the TASSIE NATIONALS or Victorian series. I am not used too having to have the rules and regs on ya bar pad, under your peak and in your goggles to know whats what at a new race meeting, as i couldn't give a F$#@ who i ride against, u can have the trophy and bragging rights, i just want to enjoy the fun and banter of VMX.
If some rule book junkie had of jacked up and did something about it at Tassie when it supposed to matter the most, it would of been all understood and dead and buried on the 1st day of racing. The oppertunity was there to make a perfect example of the 81 490 riding up or down a class, but why didn't anyone? Then you would of all been able to sleep at night.
Where were you all when the nationals were on at Tassie? Why didn't you guys put the issue too bed on that weekend? I gather you were all there as you wouldn't want to miss something that is so importants to u? "THE NATS".. or is it only important now because its QLD ???
I'm not keen on vegemite, but I agree with mxmaniac on this. If your bike fits under the age limit; you should be able to ride in it. It's your funeral if you try to clear the same jumps as Evo on a Pre75. ;D
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I always assumed (wrongly it seems) that even after the Evo class was introduced to VIPER that you still couldn't ride a Pre 80 bike in the Pre 85 classes. But, you could ride post 80 bikes in the Evo class.
In my mind that meant there were only a handful of bikes that could enter both classes (e.g. YZ250H).
I've always thought that Evo had no year cut off, but was restricted by technology. So if you found a twin shock, air cooled, drum braked bike that was made in 2008, it was still eligible.
Tex
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Just to keep you fine "ride up a class" type guys happy, I hear a rumour that a certain serial offender from WA has already protested the Nationals because he has entered a pre '65 bike in Pre '65, Pre '70, Pre '75 and Evo and the organisers have said no. What a complete dipshit this bloke is. I'm led to believe it's the same bloke who caused the famous CZ rear sprocket incident in W.A. a few years back. If ever there was a cockwash that should be charged with bringing the sport into disrepute it's this prick.
I'm mad as hell and i'm not going to take it any more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I am not a rule book nazi at all. I just am a bit fed up with people that twist the rules that are simple therefore floored to suit themselves.That is all that it is, plain and simple. And it all happens on this forum.
So i am not quoting the rule book, it looks like you guys have studied it to find away around what you want to do on a race day (like i said LOOKS like).
Its not intended to bend the rules to suit ones self, as in Victoria we have been riding the 81 490 and 414 etc in both classes since day dot as explained earlier. There is no Twisting the rules at the Nats, as the thought of not being able to use the one bike in both classes had never even crossed our mind.. It wasn't illegal to race the 490 in EVO/Pre85 at last years nats, but if it had of been, it would of been an honest mistake, due to not knowing any different. Until this round of the nats, where you cant ride in both by the sound of it,The only problem is the difference in rules from state to state..
Its like Karmichael Hunt throwing the ball in his first AFL game... ha ha His doing what he is used to doing! It be fuggin funny though :D
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I can't wait to see the Victorians reaction the first time Karmichael pulls off a perfect cover tackle around the ankles, or does a grapple tackle. Now that will be funny.
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Just to keep you fine "ride up a class" type guys happy, I hear a rumour that a certain serial offender from WA has already protested the Nationals because he has entered a pre '65 bike in Pre '65, Pre '70, Pre '75 and Evo and the organisers have said no. What a complete dipshit this bloke is. I'm led to believe it's the same bloke who caused the famous CZ rear sprocket incident in W.A. a few years back. If ever there was a cockwash that should be charged with bringing the sport into disrepute it's this prick.
I'm mad as hell and i'm not going to take it any more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now thats taking the piss.. ::) when we were at Tassie, everyone was talking about that same flogger from W.A you happen to be talking about.. I bet he has a wicked trophy collection.. from his local trophy shop, paid by himself :-\
Johnny "O-the regs are forked up" :P said there was no protest flag in QLD in an earlier post? I wonder if there will be one at the nats?
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I can't wait to see the Victorians reaction the first time Karmichael pulls off a perfect cover tackle around the ankles, or does a grapple tackle. Now that will be funny.
AFL is too soft, we need him.. :o
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No taking the piss, it is absolutely true. To make matters worse, his protest has been upheld so the club has had to counter protest. The prick has gotta be stopped, he really needs to be taken out the back of the sheds and given the mother of all floggings. You reckon this is a gee up, sorry but it aint. I'm fuming.
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Some pages back i asked this;
Aside from some NON MX Evolution Spec machines built after the 31st December (that may be affected), with a Pre78 & Pre85 Class structure in place, what is the point of an Evolution class within the current GCR's?
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And if you do an ankle tap in AFL, you'll be brushing your teeth through your asshole for a while to come. :D
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No taking the piss, it is absolutely true. To make matters worse, his protest has been upheld so the club has had to counter protest. The prick has gotta be stopped, he really needs to be taken out the back of the sheds and given the mother of all floggings. You reckon this is a gee up, sorry but it aint. I'm fuming.
I heard the same and want him pointed out at riders briefing and jeered . vmx is better without that prick. He has to be put in line by the majority
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Mxmaniac i don't reckon there will be any need for a protest flag, this monkey will get taken out for sure in the pre '85 race on his pre '65 machine.
I heard the same news about this wanker from a good source and it's going to cause a shitfight at briefing.
So mate you get to keep your protest flag under your bed for another day.
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Before EVO came in a year or 2 ago in vic, the 81 490 husky 414 etc, could only run in pre85..
As that was the class it fitted in. Thats why i think its drummed into us that them bikes are pre85 bikes.
When evo came about, it was a class that was what i believe, designated for a bike that came standard with twin shock drum brake? Which obviously was a class that these bikes could run in legally. So to myself and probably other vics, its as normal as vegimite and cheese to be able to run in both classes. I have never heard anyone complain about it on race day, from the TASSIE NATIONALS or Victorian series. I am not used too having to have the rules and regs on ya bar pad, under your peak and in your goggles to know whats what at a new race meeting, as i couldn't give a F$#@ who i ride against, u can have the trophy and bragging rights, i just want to enjoy the fun and banter of VMX.
If some rule book junkie had of jacked up and did something about it at Tassie when it supposed to matter the most, it would of been all understood and dead and buried on the 1st day of racing. The oppertunity was there to make a perfect example of the 81 490 riding up or down a class, but why didn't anyone? Then you would of all been able to sleep at night.
Where were you all when the nationals were on at Tassie? Why didn't you guys put the issue too bed on that weekend? I gather you were all there as you wouldn't want to miss something that is so importants to u? "THE NATS".. or is it only important now because its QLD ???
I sort of here you that you have been running clases since day dot. After talking to someone today that has been in the scene since day dot, he told me that you cant ride up in any of the other early classes which confirms what i have been on about. Its not that i want era racing, the people that started this whole thing made it that way and it is reflected in most of the rules. Its just not spelt out when the later classes came on board. That is where i base my argument on.
The whole ' i've only got one bike' thing is tending to come across as a guilt trip.Even if you are struggling and cant come up with any cash for a second budget racer to conform, then its one class for you unless the club has a one bike class a la QVMX.
Your misfortune doesn't need to be a guilt trip on others at the same meeting that conform to the rules . Please don't think i am disrespectful but surely that is life.
To answer your question re where were you at the Nat's?
As much as i tried, the logistics and dollars required stopped me in the end. Also money lost while not working was another major. It killed me to stay home.
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Can we at least ban the riding gear and hair styles from the late 80's?
Hmmm I can get out my old fluoro pink Rat jersey, pants, gloves and fluoro Helmet! Yeessssss
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Hey Brad and John, you're spending too much time defending yourselves. Don't bother, nobody is more passionate about vintage than you guys so let it go. These blokes have got their opinions and even though they're wrong, you aint gonna change it. Let it go.
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Hey Brad and John, you're spending too much time defending yourselves. Don't bother, nobody is more passionate about vintage than you guys so let it go. These blokes have got their opinions and even though they're wrong, you aint gonna change it. Let it go.
You're dead right, i would be far better in the garage getting bikes ready than wasting time here.
Thankyou for your words of wisdom wise one. :D
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No worries Sweetcheeks, any time. I'm with Brad, let's name, shame and humiliate the Western Australian deadshit who is continually trying to damage our beloved sport. I reckon we get someone to point him out at riders briefing and aim a few well aimed barbs at the bastard. He really needs to be stopped.
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I really for the life of me cannot work out the problem you guys have with this concept. It isn't riding up a class as Evo is not an era based concept. It is a mechanical one.
And as for Brads claim that he wants to keep Pre-85 'pure' or whatever the term he uses is, I'm at a loss about that as well? Trying to make Pre85 totally water-cooled, disked braked and linkaged suspension is in no way making the class 'true'. This is the era when the change came about so it should look quite natural that these two types of bikes were running together.
And Magoo. You can come and tell me how wrong I am when you come to Barrabool in a few weeks time. >:(
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The prick has gotta be stopped,
Alison told me the bloke in question isn't coming to the Nats this year but I did see the name "Peter" on her W.A. rider list list so.....who knows? Magoo and Jimmy...The bloke is a serial protester, he's the bloke who threatened to protest my Maico at Coffs if it'd beaten his BSA. He's as evil as Bindi Irwin.
This is a good debate. Some good points have been made from both camps and it's stayed fairly civil. It's great to see you guys get pumped on something you feel strongly about. For once I'm more than happy to sit on my soap box and watch this one.
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I'm not sure if that's threat or an invitation Ross. Either way I'm not coming to Barrabool as much as I'd love to. I repeat, why put it 1 week after the nats? I really want to do a Viper meeting this year but with 3 trips to Queensland and a limited budget it aint gonna happen.
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The prick has gotta be stopped,
Alison told me the bloke in question isn't coming to the Nats this year but I did see the name "Peter" on her W.A. rider list list so.....who knows?
This is a good debate. Some good points have been made from both camps and it's stayed fairly civil. It's great to see you guys get pumped on something you feel strongly about. For once I'm more than happy to sit on my soap box and watch this one.
Hopefully he comes to Vic Aussies next year, Hope we can all arrange to ride the right bike in the right class and show this Peter Knob Jockey guy what its all about.. >:( Some of the stories of the guys antics were beyond belief when listening in last year. ::)
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Mxmaniac...Some of the best stories about this bloke haven't hit the general population.....yet.
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I'm not sure if that's threat or an invitation Ross. Either way I'm not coming to Barrabool as much as I'd love to. I repeat, why put it 1 week after the nats? I really want to do a Viper meeting this year but with 3 trips to Queensland and a limited budget it aint gonna happen.
Monza Park should be the best one to Aim for, its in OCTOBER i think.. The track has undergone plenty of work and sounds like its came up great. It was sweet before.. and better now. I will be on the sidelines after repairs on a badly healed broken shoulder are about to take me down :'( Not lookin forward to the repair work. But i got ravonswood and wonthaggi in.. yee haa
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I really want to but I'm scared 414 is going to ambush me and punch my lights out for disagreeing with him lol. Seriously, we've got our big 10 year anniversary meeting in Canowindra that I was hoping a heap of you fine southerners are going to come up to so I reckon that's out too. September might be a slight chance.
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Hey Magoo what gives with the 125 class? has the HIV really taken hold?
Marty Milton must be shaking in his boots mate.
Have fun at the Nats watch out for the drunken Taupo Tow truck operator. ;)
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If ever there was a naturally built 125 rider its me matey, slim, fit, agile and fast.
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You must stop smoking that reefer Magoo.Its causing delusions of anorexia...
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Hey, I've been going to the gym. I'm down to 100kgs.
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HIV? Magoo must be immune by now. But that little Honda will be having it's ring flogged off by the big unit.
You will have to aim for the Vicco Nats next year 43.
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I really for the life of me cannot work out the problem you guys have with this concept. It isn't riding up a class as Evo is not an era based concept. It is a mechanical one.
Using that theory evo should not exist .They should have just had pre 85. Evo is a class on its own. One bike, two classes = riding up.
VMX IS an era based concept.
Hey Brad and John, you're spending too much time defending yourselves. Don't bother, nobody is more passionate about vintage than you guys so let it go. These blokes have got their opinions and even though they're wrong, you aint gonna change it. Let it go.
I am trying to leave it but it seems i have a lot of opinion on this. More than i realised! Now piss off and leave me alone and watch out on the weekend cause im going to take you out! ( no not dinner and a movie either!)
If ever there was a naturally built 125 rider its me matey, slim, fit, agile and fast.
1 from 4 ain't that good mate. Oh you wrote fast. My mistake!
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Magoo you didnt weigh a tenth of a tonne back in the 70's.
Elvis dont worry about the idiots,we still love you ;)
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No. It doesn't read too well (meeting at The 'Bool). What I meant is it's a lot easier to thrash something out in the flesh rather than be attacked from all sides on here. Guess it's not going to happen anyhow..... :-\
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two classes = riding up.
Sorry. That totally baffles me again. You're fighting a losing battle here Bud. Give it up...
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40-45 yrs, Evo. There's two classes. Is that riding up? :-\
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So this bloke from WA did this at the last NATS and maybe the NATS the year before and the rule's have not been changed to clearly stamp it out and now we have to deal with it >:( Thanks for nothing.
As for the EVO class, if as 414 says your not riding up or down to PRE85 there's no class there. So apart from giving 414 more ride's on one bike while he smiles, thinking how much he love's living Vicco. It's a waste of time :'( Shame I love the EVO class.
Cheers
Noel
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Can't have this thread die off now can we ;D
What about the four stroke class, they also ride in capacity class's don't they?
I agree you shouldn't be able to ride up a class, you can't ride your 125 in the 250 class etc,
This whole debate is based around the fact that Evo bikes came out in the 80 - 84 period & so like a 4 stroke, fall into 2 classes.
Now if the rule book actually said no twinshocks in Pre 85 then that would be a different thing, & their is only an assumption that the book should have said this.
By the way, not trying to be to anal, but where does it say in the book that you can't ride a bike in 2 classes?
As far as this WA thing goes...
18.7.3 Table of machine components - pre -1965
18.7.4 Table of machine components - 1965 - 1970
18.7.5 Table of machine components - 1970 - 1975
Hmmm, maybe I shouldn't go to Qld with all this angst. ;D
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Okay mate, your taking the piss. Good one. Two eras, one bike =riding up. Any clearer?
How ever the era is decided, by year or mechanics, a class/era is a class/ era. No matter which way you look at it evo is a class and an era which is raced separate, in the rule book separate and they physically look different. So to say they are both the same is an insult to my intelligence . And the best part of all is you base your whole argument around not being stuffed washing/ preparing a second bike. As with any of the eras , there are grey areas such as the bikes that didn't keep up with technology which because of the rules can run in evo with earlier model bikes. Why? Because they are the same mechanically as the other evos. I even think that should be their place , as an evo bike but thats not a major in the scheme of things.
No angst really GMC, i am hitting this pretty hard i know but to me this vmx thing is so clear and perfect unless you want to go against the grain to suit yourself as well as making piss poor reasons for doing so.
So with the other side of the coin, i have the bike for all occasions. A '69 CZ360. I can ride pre '70, '75 ,'78, evo, pre '85, pre '90 and then i will be sweet for pre '95. I will then do the modern circuit on off weekends. I know now im being a forkwit but when commonsense and good debate has failed to get a point across.......
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Who said sweet cheeks magoo is not a 125 rider ? I would like to differ i can see him on a turbo RV125 He is slim,fit,agile,fast and hansome,president of the Kevy Rudd fan club and dates bindi irwin. Go Magoo at the Nats.
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This is awesome - the Victorians and the Qwinslanders going at it.
Remind me, What are we doing wrong in NSW? ;D
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At club level I ride the modern class for a bit of fun on the 81 490, its freakin great! All in the name of fun.. It gets attention with the modern guys who know nothing about the bikes, and has dragged a few guys over to the vmx scene who now know what fun is all about.
I would love to do the finke on it! it steers, handles and forkin hammers! pitty about this pilot :-\
It is written into the rules that the 490 or 414 are now classed as evo or pre85 for the nats?
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How do you ride an evo bike up a class when its the only state of technology designated class that there is?
I hadn't given too much thought to this riding up a class issue but if people want to stop it I can understand their reasoning.
I saw Feets Minert ride his old BSA at the World 4stroke champs against the modern 4 strokes at the time(1990) and it was a real buzz but if the general concensous over here is to keep bikes in their original era's I'll go along with it no problem.
But I will never understand why a guy who loves his Maicos can't race his 81 Mega against a Honda riders 81 450 in a pre 85 class.81 COMES BEFORE 85 DOESN'T IT? Or is there something wrong with my maths.Maybe 81 doesn't come before 85 in Germany or something.
I hadn't read the GCR's either before getting involved in this topic.All I read was PRE 85 and even with my limited understanding of english I assumed that that meant PRE 85.
I did end up going into the GCR's of course and HOLY SNAPPING ARSEHOLES BATAMN PRE 85 means PRE 85.What part of "all bikes manufactured upto and including 1984 " don't some people understand?Couldn't be any clearer or simpler - unless YOU have a personal agenda and want them to say something else that they don't.
I didn't write the GCR's but my opinion is if you want to hold an MA santioned event then you should make yourself familiar with them(GCR's) and abide by them .Otherwise don't get involved , go off and do you own thing with your own idealologies.
And if you want to invite pre 85 riders to your race you'd better make it clear if that means all pre 85 bikes or not .if it doesn't then don't call it pre 85 .Call it pre 85 single shock or pre 85 cr500 only whatever you fuggin want .Its your choice , you don't have to run an MA event under the GCR's if you think that the GCR's are wrong.As MXMANIAC said why wasn't there a problem with the Tas wegians last year?
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At club level I ride the modern class for a bit of fun on the 81 490, its freakin great! All in the name of fun.. It gets attention with the modern guys who know nothing about the bikes, and has dragged a few guys over to the vmx scene who now know what fun is all about.
I would love to do the finke on it! it steers, handles and forkin hammers! pitty about this pilot :-\
It is written into the rules that the 490 or 414 are now classed as evo or pre85 for the nats?
Remember when Geoff Ballard entered his 81 490 in a modern 6DAYS? The next year his entry was refused with no explaination.
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At club level I ride the modern class for a bit of fun on the 81 490, its freakin great! All in the name of fun.. It gets attention with the modern guys who know nothing about the bikes, and has dragged a few guys over to the vmx scene who now know what fun is all about.
I would love to do the finke on it! it steers, handles and forkin hammers! pitty about this pilot :-\
It is written into the rules that the 490 or 414 are now classed as evo or pre85 for the nats?
Remember when Geoff Ballard entered his 81 490 in a modern 6DAYS? The next year his entry was refused with no explaination.
Jealousy rings a very common bell..................................... ::) Geoff rode dads 490 at barrabool oceania and classic dirt
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As far as this WA thing goes...
18.7.3 Table of machine components - pre -1965
18.7.4 Table of machine components - 1965 - 1970
18.7.5 Table of machine components - 1970 - 1975
Yep would be great if the rule's said that.
No angst here.
Cheers
Noel
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At club level I ride the modern class for a bit of fun on the 81 490, its freakin great! All in the name of fun.. It gets attention with the modern guys who know nothing about the bikes, and has dragged a few guys over to the vmx scene who now know what fun is all about.
I would love to do the finke on it! it steers, handles and forkin hammers! pitty about this pilot :-\
It is written into the rules that the 490 or 414 are now classed as evo or pre85 for the nats?
I heard that Magoo has volunteered to tell Geoff Ballard that its just not right that hes racing that thing against Belly's CR.As we all know Geoff is a icon a ledgend and an allround nice bloke so I reckon he'll probably pullout - in the interests of the sport!
Remember when Geoff Ballard entered his 81 490 in a modern 6DAYS? The next year his entry was refused with no explaination.
Jealousy rings a very common bell..................................... ::) Geoff rode dads 490 at barrabool oceania and classic dirt
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But I will never understand why a guy who loves his Maicos can't race his 81 Mega against a Honda riders 81 450 in a pre 85 class.81 COMES BEFORE 85 DOESN'T IT? Or is there something wrong with my maths.Maybe 81 doesn't come before 85 in Germany or something.
I hadn't read the GCR's either before getting involved in this topic.All I read was PRE 85 and even with my limited understanding of english I assumed that that meant PRE 85.
I did end up going into the GCR's of course and HOLY SNAPPING ARSEHOLES BATAMN PRE 85 means PRE 85.What part of "all bikes manufactured upto and including 1984 " don't some people understand?Couldn't be any clearer or simpler - unless YOU have a personal agenda and want them to say something else that they don't
Every era has a start and a finish, some bikes are excluded and some are included ( flow on models). As is the same with what this is about. An 81 cr450 gets pushed into the newer technology pre 85 class and is out classed as its the earliest model bike in the class ( not to mention a shit box in its own right). An 81 490 was behind the times technology wise (or more so cool wise at the time) which puts it in evo, yet it holds its own in any class of course! Pre75 all look the same with 4" of suspension, pre 78 all look the same as evo as should pre 85 as DOES pre 90. The common goal is there just by looking at the bikes . Its not rocket science here.
HOLY SNAPPING ARSEHOLES BATAMN PRE 85 means PRE 85
So you are stating the obvious. So here is another obvious. Who ever wrote the rules for pre 85 obviously meant it to include both single shock bikes and watercooled bikes that were made up to and including an '84 model. In the event that a rare twin shock built in 84 or whatever comes along, the rider could choose to ride in pre85.
Okay i think riding one bike in multiple classes or eras to be more precise should be discouraged so as to preserve said eras...any era. Dont turn it into a whatever race . I think i put my point across ::) I've spent all night dribbling this shit. Should have listened to guru Magoo!
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Brad I think these guys are just winding you up now, maybe a conspirousy (I think I forked that word up) to put you off your game for the weekend? These Mexicans now there beat, so now there just jibber jabbering their lips and fingers. Forget it now and prepare for the battle on Friday. Long live the Alamo. Talk to ya soon, John.
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Ok Brad.Next time I see Gally. I'll mention it to him that its was pretty good how he won the MRMotocross in 81 as a sweep rider.
You can tell my mate Webbo that he should build another $20.000 HL500 if he wants to ride more than one class.If he doesn't want too just use plan B tell to by that $1000 yz on ebay .Yer he can ride the HL in one class and the YZ dunger in the other.That should satisfy his lust for racing.
BTW because I like you Brad I should mention that he has a temper like a Bull thats just been artificilally inseminated by mistake instead of the other way around.
"The common goal is there just by looking at the bikes . Its not rocket science here."Na thats not rocket science at all but its your agenda Brad .You have to have rules thats what the GCR's are for .If you want to run or participate in an MA sactioned event I suggest that you go along with them.
"Okay i think riding one bike in multiple classes or eras to be more precise should be discouraged so as to preserve " YOUR AGENDA again Brad so don't go spoutung off about Victorians with agendas or ideas of bending rules when they are following the GCR's.
If you want to send some new VMX rider after doing two or three three lap races on his one bike home to tell the family that he needs another bike to get in a few more races go ahead.If I or anyone has one bike or twenty bikes its that persons choice.Its a lifestyle choice .I thought that VMX was about passion for old dirt bikes, anyone and any bike .Same old dirtbikes ,same old fun.
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Moto you can't compare Gally in '81 to VMX it's not relevant.
Anyway his 465 was as good as anything on the track, RM465, CR450, KX420, 490 Maico, 430 Husky..
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Well done motomaineac u just got webbo beaten up only 12 more vics to go.There is still a spear seat if u want to come.
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Moto you can't compare Gally in '81 to VMX it's not relevant.
Anyway his 465 was as good as anything on the track, RM465, CR450, KX420, 490 Maico, 430 Husky..
Johnny O why not?Its just one example of an EVO type bike in the pre 85 era against linkaged bikes.
I could have said Darryl Willoughby or Peter Benson or a shit load of Euro rides or US riders.I could have said Carla's 3rd in the GP's against the Honda and Kawis.Or some local c grader.
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Well done motomaineac u just got webbo beaten up only 12 more vics to go.There is still a spear seat if u want to come.
Not a chance ,the vics can handle themselves .Especially with you Webbo and Big Shane in the front line.
Sorry Mate I'm half way through a roof redo and Im waiting for the call to start the side when the slaters have stripped it.
Good luck and have fun. Try and get to at least Moree on the first day.
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Yeah Motomaniac but you're comparing one of the latest Evo bikes against the first of the pre 85 era bikes and that's always going to be a fair match.
The latest pre 85 bikes are way better than the 81's.
If you're comparing era's you should compare a '81 YZ465 against an '84 CR500 and that is not an even match.
The 2 classes are distinctavely different and both have a place in VMX.
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Yeah Motomaniac but you're comparing one of the latest Evo bikes against the first of the pre 85 era bikes and that's always going to be a fair match.
The latest pre 85 bikes are way better than the 81's.
If you're comparing era's you should compare a '81 YZ465 against an '84 CR500 and that is not an even match.
The 2 classes are distinctavely different and both have a place in VMX.
No problem Johnny , I made referances like these because someone (can't remember who) said that a souped up evo bike could beat a pre 85 bikeand that they didnt want to see that but thats what often happened.One could also say that an evo bike at each end of the scale is not a fair match up either - a 78 rm400 against a yz465 or worse an 84 510 Husky.
Gary Jones won one of the first Vet champs in 84 or maybe 85 on a Huskie 510 against all the Jap bikes and Mickey Diamond was kickin arse on a 84 Huskie early 85.I think he got top 5 at the USGP 84 also.
I got no problem with GB on the 490 against Belly or whoever.Hope he kicks arse.
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Are you a younger bloke motomanic? It seems like you are with your posts. You keep throwing in such irrelevant stuff . What Gally did is not relevant . Someone that spends $20000 on a bike is not relevant. The amount you spend on a bike does not make it okay to ride moe classes/eras . The beauty of a HL is it can run two. Its evo and 4 stroke. Also GB is riding two different bikes at the nats. He is playing by the rules, no prob.
This has been about blokes who have evo bikes that want a second bite of the cherry. There aren't any guys in other classes talking about running in another class to 'have more fun'. As far as i am concerned, there is only one guy that i can see thats not in it for fun, and thats the prick from WA. I will spit on him at the nats.
Isn't it also a fact that around '81 where you keep referring to legends that kicked arse back in the day against single shock bikes. Looking back we all know that the first single shocks weren't that good and wasn't a stretch for a twin shock to beat it. '81 certainly was a transition year and both mixed. Fast forward 28 years and as clear as your hand in front of you face, the vmx movement has made a twin shock class to keep the same bikes together. Then when it was pre 85's turn the single shock bikes get a turn to tear it up. I have said the same thing but explained it at least five different ways. The problem is that YOU want to take one bike and ride two classes. You wont take a pre 75, you will take an evo bike as there is a loop hole so you can justify it to YOURSELF.
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Wow, there's been a lot of chat about pre 90 in this thread in the last cupla daze.... ::)
Here's a thought for everyone... (seeing as off topic is the way to go... :P)
I have always been at a loss to understand why racing clubs don't charge entry fees based on the number of classes a rider is competing in.
It seems pretty simple to me - if you are riding three classes you pay three times what someone who is racing one class is paying because you are getting three times the track time. That would be fair for all competitors and also great for the organising clubs. ;)
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What a crock this thread has turned to, it's too simple for me. One bike/one class. That's the way it's always been since the old days everywhere except in Mexico. I agree that its a bit rich to ask a battler to have more than one bike than he can afford but how many races does a bloke want to race on 1 day anyway? When I started racing vintage back then I had a 125,250 500 and a 4 stroke and had the crazy idea that I could race 12 races on the 1 day. In the end it came down to taking 2 bikes and then eventually 1 bike as I realized my fitness wasn't as good as I thought it was. I'm happy with 3 motos and the all in at the end of the day with a lot of in between bench racing.
Whats the scoop on that wacko Peter Lawson acting up? I can't wait to see what he has in store for us at Conandale. He acted like a doofus at Coffs Harbour pointing fingers at anything with 2 wheels that didnt pass his personal idea of whats right and wrong so combine him with another couple of noted serial pest protesters it should be brilliant to watch. ::)
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You can tell my mate Webbo that he should build another $20.000 HL500 if he wants to ride more than one class.If he doesn't want too just use plan B tell to by that $1000 yz on ebay .Yer he can ride the HL in one class and the YZ dunger in the other.That should satisfy his lust for racing.
If he can afford to spend $20k on an HL, then he can surely afford the $6k (or much, much less) on a decent pre-85 race bike - or a couple of year old modern! The question is whether he's most interested in racing, old bikes, or bling...
For example: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Kawasaki-KX125-1983-Vintage-MX-VMX_W0QQitemZ160353019650QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Motorcycles?hash=item2555c8e702&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
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You can tell my mate Webbo that he should build another $20.000 HL500
Holy Moly :o! That must either be one hell of an HL or did he pay to have it built? 20K is a lot of money.
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Can someone post a wanted dead or alive poster of this VMX Peter Mug..
And someone video this guy getting addressed with some friendly fire.. ;)
I noticed a couple of referances from Magoo and 090 that money was an issue for you guys not being in tassie for the nats 08...
Sounds like the similar reason why i dont have a 2nd vmx bike thats meant to be so easily obtained and affordable... ???
Cant wait to see the results of the nats, its exciting!
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What a crock this thread has turned to, it's too simple for me. One bike/one class. That's the way it's always been since the old days everywhere except in Mexico. I agree that its a bit rich to ask a battler to have more than one bike than he can afford but how many races does a bloke want to race on 1 day anyway? When I started racing vintage back then I had a 125,250 500 and a 4 stroke and had the crazy idea that I could race 12 races on the 1 day. In the end it came down to taking 2 bikes and then eventually 1 bike as I realized my fitness wasn't as good as I thought it was. I'm happy with 3 motos and the all in at the end of the day with a lot of in between bench racing.
[/quote]Very compasionate Mate but I couldn't give a rats if a guys a battler or a fuggin millionare.Its no fuggin business of anyone else's how many bikes a bloke has or how he runs his life and spends his money.Are we still in the land of OZ?Why do I feel the Politburo is watching me.
But suppose every evo rider buys and maintains 2 evo bikes .What are the logistics of getting them to QLD across bass strait or from WA or VIC.Do you expect that everyone down here has room for 4 bikes on their trailer or Ute or whatever or do you expect everyone to travel up by themselves.Or one guy has to go with one bike.As far as I understand each post 75 class gets one race per day - 3 laps.
How is this one bike /one class rule encouraging participation?and why isn't it applied to pre 75 ? What have you achieved when Geoff Ballard lines up in EVO on an old Maico and again in pre 85 on a different Maico.Its still GB riding an old Maico and some folks won't even notice that its two different bikes.
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You can tell my mate Webbo that he should build another $20.000 HL500
Holy Moly :o! That must either be one hell of an HL or did he pay to have it built? 20K is a lot of money.
I was approximating but it would be close and yes he had it built.
McMuffins Mugen 360 (see OZVMX feature pic) cost around the same , maybe a bit more.Similar to some other 360's from down here -now gine.
I talked to Roy Gay about his 510 a while back and that was getting up there too.
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Roy Gay....now there's a name we haven't seen in a vintage race for a couple of years. Think what you like of him but you have to admit he can ride. The Evo class is going to be HOT :o
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Well here's a buck saw if ever a need be...
RIGHT NOW, I begin my lobbying for a pre 2000 class!
Its taken so long to get a pre 90 class to almost get going in NSW, I figure that by bringing this Pre 2000 era arguments forward that eventually it will be the worst of two evils (get it, "evil") and pre 90 will be OK.
Warmest regards,
Rudy
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Roy Gay....now there's a name we haven't seen in a vintage race for a couple of years. Think what you like of him but you have to admit he can ride. The Evo class is going to be HOT :o
by getting up there I meant in build cost. Mc Muffin and his mugens are staying in Vic as I know.The EVO class will still be hot.
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You can tell my mate Webbo that he should build another $20.000 HL500
Holy Moly :o! That must either be one hell of an HL or did he pay to have it built? 20K is a lot of money.
Love to see a photo if anyone has one. I would be frightened to add up what mine owes but it is not 20K.....hope he got Fox Forx, Ohlins and all the goodies for that kind of loot.
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You can tell my mate Webbo that he should build another $20.000 HL500
Holy Moly :o! That must either be one hell of an HL or did he pay to have it built? 20K is a lot of money.
Love to see a photo if anyone has one. I would be frightened to add up what mine owes but it is not 20K.....hope he got Fox Forx, Ohlins and all the goodies for that kind of loot.
Yes brand new custom built ohlins to original HL specs.Not FOX , he had works Yamaha but I think hes running yz465's now.Its sweet anyway's.I posted some action shots from Barrabool on OZVMX and there is plenty of VIPER too.
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Well here's a buck saw if ever a need be...
RIGHT NOW, I begin my lobbying for a pre 2000 class!
Its taken so long to get a pre 90 class to almost get going in NSW, I figure that by bringing this Pre 2000 era arguments forward that eventually it will be the worst of two evils (get it, "evil") and pre 90 will be OK.
Warmest regards,
Rudy
The pre 90 class is great to watch, the bikes look great too. I think of dave thorpe, Kurt nicholl, Jeff Stanton,Rick Johnson,Larry Ward, Mike Kedrowski, Eddie Warren, and Jeff Leisk everytime they blast off the line..What an ERA.. Ah the big bore 2 strokes... 8)
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RIGHT NOW, I begin my lobbying for a pre 2000 class!
Its taken so long to get a pre 90 class to almost get going in NSW, I figure that by bringing this Pre 2000 era arguments forward that eventually it will be the worst of two evils (get it, "evil") and pre 90 will be OK.
Warmest regards,
Rudy
[/quote]
HERE HERE FOR THE PREVIOUS POST COMMENTS.
Yer Rudy I have been thinking about whats going to happen down the track if there's ever a pre 2000.I have a 99YZ 250 2 STK and I suppose for sure there will be a 2 stroke only class by then as they already have started.So therefore some ones probably going to protest if I try to ride my old technology 2 stk againt the new technology 4 stk's and wont let me ride in pre 2000 .
I also thought about why these people dont protest all the BSA 4 stk's racing against the new tech 360CZ's in the pre 70 class .
Getting back to pre 2000 they changed the constitution to never allow pre 90 racing in HEAVEN at least so there sno chance for pre 2000
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upgrade his Evo bike to pre-85 specs
thats just it, im not really upgrading my 82 model pre 85 specs anyway. It will be built with parts available in 82 and since theres no rules on what shocks you can have in EVO and flatslide carbs are allowed i could enter either class if i wanted, its just that i would prefer to be in pre 85 because the parts on my 82 fit that period better for me in a personal/historical view, but yes i could enter EVO and have an advantage against some of the older EVO bikes, but i dont want to do that. What would be good is a 80-84 model twinshock class but i guess there would never be enough bikes to run a class like that, so thats why i wouldnt mind having to compete against 80-84 single shockers.
VMX is about ERA racing/ riding
Yes thats exactly right so why should late model twinshock bikes be made to compete against the older last of the 1970's bikes? Its doesnt make sense to me having a 1984 twinshock against a 1978.
ok i will shut up now :)
The ERA SUDDENLY TURNED IRRELEVANT FOR 090(Brad)
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Well here's a buck saw if ever a need be...
RIGHT NOW, I begin my lobbying for a pre 2000 class!
Its taken so long to get a pre 90 class to almost get going in NSW, I figure that by bringing this Pre 2000 era arguments forward that eventually it will be the worst of two evils (get it, "evil") and pre 90 will be OK.
Warmest regards,
Rudy
The pre 90 class is great to watch, the bikes look great too. I think of dave thorpe, Kurt nicholl, Jeff Stanton,Rick Johnson,Larry Ward, Mike Kedrowski, Eddie Warren, and Jeff Leisk everytime they blast off the line..What an ERA.. Ah the big bore 2 strokes... 8)
Pre 90 should focus on all that crazy 80s gear. Apico, Dainese, RS Taichi, M.Robert, Axo, Clover... the list goes on. Way more interesting than the sea of Fox & Thor that we see now.
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Well here's a buck saw if ever a need be...
RIGHT NOW, I begin my lobbying for a pre 2000 class!
Its taken so long to get a pre 90 class to almost get going in NSW, I figure that by bringing this Pre 2000 era arguments forward that eventually it will be the worst of two evils (get it, "evil") and pre 90 will be OK.
Warmest regards,
Rudy
The pre 90 class is great to watch, the bikes look great too. I think of dave thorpe, Kurt nicholl, Jeff Stanton,Rick Johnson,Larry Ward, Mike Kedrowski, Eddie Warren, and Jeff Leisk everytime they blast off the line..What an ERA.. Ah the big bore 2 strokes... 8)
Pre 90 should focus on all that crazy 80s gear. Apico, Dainese, RS Taichi, M.Robert, Axo, Clover... the list goes on. Way more interesting than the sea of Fox & Thor that we see now.
So true.I try to keep my riding gear period as well.Dont forget Leiskie's Chambers gear in Europe
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Well here's a buck saw if ever a need be...
RIGHT NOW, I begin my lobbying for a pre 2000 class!
Its taken so long to get a pre 90 class to almost get going in NSW, I figure that by bringing this Pre 2000 era arguments forward that eventually it will be the worst of two evils (get it, "evil") and pre 90 will be OK.
Warmest regards,
Rudy
The pre 90 class is great to watch, the bikes look great too. I think of dave thorpe, Kurt nicholl, Jeff Stanton,Rick Johnson,Larry Ward, Mike Kedrowski, Eddie Warren, and Jeff Leisk everytime they blast off the line..What an ERA.. Ah the big bore 2 strokes... 8)
Pre 90 should focus on all that crazy 80s gear. Apico, Dainese, RS Taichi, M.Robert, Axo, Clover... the list goes on. Way more interesting than the sea of Fox & Thor that we see now.
So true.I try to keep my riding gear period as well.Dont forget Leiskie's Chambers gear in Europe
Chambers wasn't a brand of gear. He was wearing Apico those years
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Okay yer Chambers was his sponsor but looked cool .Wonder if he still has any of it?
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Yes brand new custom built ohlins to original HL specs.Not FOX , he had works Yamaha but I think hes running yz465's now.Its sweet anyway's.I posted some action shots from Barrabool on OZVMX and there is plenty of VIPER too.
[/quote]
Is that the HL #24 with the hand carved sidecovers and the black rims. ???
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upgrade his Evo bike to pre-85 specs
thats just it, im not really upgrading my 82 model pre 85 specs anyway. It will be built with parts available in 82 and since theres no rules on what shocks you can have in EVO and flatslide carbs are allowed i could enter either class if i wanted, its just that i would prefer to be in pre 85 because the parts on my 82 fit that period better for me in a personal/historical view, but yes i could enter EVO and have an advantage against some of the older EVO bikes, but i dont want to do that. What would be good is a 80-84 model twinshock class but i guess there would never be enough bikes to run a class like that, so thats why i wouldnt mind having to compete against 80-84 single shockers.
VMX is about ERA racing/ riding
Yes thats exactly right so why should late model twinshock bikes be made to compete against the older last of the 1970's bikes? Its doesnt make sense to me having a 1984 twinshock against a 1978.
ok i will shut up now :)
The ERA SUDDENLY TURNED IRRELEVANT FOR 090(Brad)
Im a bit over this thread but can you please explain this post as i do not understand it. I haven't changed my idea of what vmx is about.
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i would prefer to be in pre 85 because the parts on my 82 fit that period better for me in a personal/historical view, but yes i could enter EVO and have an advantage against some of the older EVO bikes, but i dont want to do that. What would be good is a 80-84 model twinshock class but i guess there would never be enough bikes to run a class like that, so thats why i wouldnt mind having to compete against 80-84 single shockers.
VMX is about ERA racing/ riding
Yes thats exactly right so why should late model twinshock bikes be made to compete against the older last of the 1970's bikes? Its doesnt make sense to me having a 1984 twinshock against a 1978.
ok i will shut up now :)
[/quote]
The ERA SUDDENLY TURNED IRRELEVANT FOR 090(Brad)
[/quote]
Im a bit over this thread but can you please explain this post as i do not understand it. I haven't changed my idea of what vmx is about.
[/quote]
Well I meant that you called all my reference's to the period irrelevant.I love this scene because I am reliving my youth through it.It brings back alot of great memories.I was refering to the ERA as a great period of transition, old school euro bike and new school jap bikes.I think you were refering to the era of the single shock. ie the new era.It started in 80 with Kawi's and finished when Huskie's finally went single shock in 85.The issue is how to handle the bikes from that 5 year period.I can see that for you pre 85 is the start of the new single shock era and evo the end of the old twin shock era .Whether these two types of bikes should race together or not is a matter of opinion.
It seems to me that pre 85 racing started in Vic and Qld under different circumstances and for differnet reasons.Like GMC already said.Thats how we have arrived at our different points of view.
I'm burying the hatchet - no point in too much bad blood.
Have a good NATS weekend.
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[/quote]
Im a bit over this thread but can you please explain this post as i do not understand it. I haven't changed my idea of what vmx is about.
[/quote]
Well I meant that you called all my reference's to the period irrelevant.I love this scene because I am reliving my youth through it.It brings back alot of great memories.I was refering to the ERA as a great period of transition, old school euro bike and new school jap bikes.I think you were refering to the era of the single shock. ie the new era.It started in 80 with Kawi's and finished when Huskie's finally went single shock in 85.The issue is how to handle the bikes from that 5 year period.I can see that for you pre 85 is the start of the new single shock era and evo the end of the old twin shock era .Whether these two types of bikes should race together or not is a matter of opinion.
It seems to me that pre 85 racing started in Vic and Qld under different circumstances and for differnet reasons.Like GMC already said.Thats how we have arrived at our different points of view.
I'm burying the hatchet - no point in too much bad blood.
Have a good NATS weekend.
[/quote]
Couldn't be any more clearer than that... 8)
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GET OFF HERE BRAD. ;D :D ;D
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GET OFF HERE BRAD. ;D :D ;D
:P
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I CAN STILL SEE YOU. :o :o
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Good post Brent as it was well written and made a good point. Where this almost all started ( when the pre90 bit was killed off), there was talk of one bike and two classes. That is /was my beef. With a twin shock in pre85, an 84 twin shock is a rare thing and i dont really have a major problem with it. The reality is that most riders would run it in evo if they had to choose.
No bad blood here either mate.
I am an eighties guy to !
Me and my sidekick TM Bill are off to Conondale tomorrow.
Cheers.
I CAN STILL SEE YOU. :o :o
Have you got your shit together? Or have you been on here all night?
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Shits together, what are we cooking for dinner tomorrow night.
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Yes brand new custom built ohlins to original HL specs.Not FOX , he had works Yamaha but I think hes running yz465's now.Its sweet anyway's.I posted some action shots from Barrabool on OZVMX and there is plenty of VIPER too.
Is that the HL #24 with the hand carved sidecovers and the black rims. ???
[/quote]
No thats another HL . Great looking bike too.Big$.Look for #20 (not in viper rnd 4)#43 is another
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Brad and bill have a beer for me with the big boy of love and enjoy your weekend,
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Ok so what going on, who qualified, who won what and whats the beer tasting like ;D
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Ok so what going on, who qualified, who won what and whats the beer tasting like ;D
and whats happening now in pre90 land..
Let the games begin on market prices. 8)
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220643671900&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:AU:1123
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Ok so what going on, who qualified, who won what and whats the beer tasting like ;D
and whats happening now in pre90 land..
Let the games begin on market prices. 8)
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220643671900&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:AU:1123
As this is a 1993 model it is probably not representative of the true market value of Pre '90 bikes.
Still a nice bike though and one I would love to have in my collection if I had the cash :D
Cheers
Shaun
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As this is a 1993 model it is probably not representative of the true market value of Pre '90 bikes.
Still a nice bike though and one I would love to have in my collection if I had the cash :D
Cheers
Shaun
Hey sugarstig,are pre 90's heeps cheaper then, with just 3 years difference ??
cheers
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I would guess the opposite. A post '90 bike doesn't have anywhere to compete except against moderns at the moment while in progressive VMX states such as Vic & QLD Pre '90 is the future of classic racing. So in my opinion a Pre "90 bike would be more valuable. However any bike is only worth what someone is prepared to pay.
Cheers
Shaun
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You are correct sugar, Pre90 is the future of classic motocross and at the
moment you don't have anywhere in this backward state of NSW to race
your Pre90 bikes unlike those progressive states of Vic and QLD however
if what we are hearing is correct this will change as of next year. Only recently
a very nice 89 Honda CR500 was on ebay in Vic for a buy now of $11,000 this
shows how strong and popular the class is in the Viper club. Dead Dog Racing
usually have some clean and nicely priced Pre90's in stock. Keep in mind
Pre90's are 21 plus years of age, when vintage first kicked off in 1988 they where
racing bikes 13 plus years old. Cheers.........