OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: Stan S on September 29, 2010, 09:31:48 pm
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Well I have just been told today that the manufacturing business that I work at is closing down. The business is primarily a M.I.M (Metal Injection Moulding) company that was Singapore based up till about 2004. After continuing to operate in Singapore for a few years, all the equipement (mixers, crushers, injection moulders, debinding stills, debinding furnaces, sintering furnaces, box furnaces, presses, CNC lathe, drill press's, screw compressors, bead blasters, vibrating finishing machines, etc, etc, etc.) were all packed in containers and shipped to Australia, set up and operated for the last 6 years or so. The technology is world class and most of the components we make are made for German companies who supply BMW, Scneider Electrics and Semens also Apple in China etc. It seems this technology has not been embraced by the many, many Australian companies that who could have benefited from it, so now as with a lot of other manufacturing businesses forced to cease operations and import our parts made in China.
My employer still has a metal stampings company to absorb some of the employee's but I beleive the writing is on the wall for that type of manufacturing also.
Anyway it probably means back to motorcycle work for me.
Stan.
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Sorry to here of your news Stan S also for the Aust economy. :(
Steven works in turbines- power for steam and all there gear and the refinery gear is now shipped out and fixed/refurbished else where including OS :( crazy :(
Happy 49th Birthday Julian. ;) ;D
cheers
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yes and the current and previous governments ( labour and liberal) were/are quite happy to sit back and watch it all happen. fork those governments and sucking up to the Septics/Asia and every other nation thats undermines our industry's be it agriculture, manufacturing for what they call fair trade "fair for who" not future generations that's for sure. >:(
this sort of shit angers me.
i work in industry (Manufacturing) and the other day i saw a gearbox drive that was cast in Sydney in 1963 (gearbox still in operation too) i also remember places i have worked at see pleanty of aussie made large and small produced machinery and parts. thing of past years now ( Except for GMC ;))
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Its sad isnt it. im sick of the junk made in asia, especially China and especially electrical goods. They think they can make a product cheap in asia but the quality is just not there. Im seeing it all the time, even in bike parts, its hard to find really quality made stuff like there use to be, so much is made in India and Taiwan. Some stuff is ok, but a lot of it isnt.
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I think we as a country just keep forking ourselves up the arse because it feels good.
We give ourselves so many benefits and restrictions that we can’t possibly compete against some foreign companies.
Super for one. Yes we all should have it, but do the Chinese companies that we compete against give it to their workers?
Same for our Farmers, they’re not allowed to use certain chemicals on the crops (and rightfully so) but we allow imports in that are grown to any spec they like.
How many manufactured parts have come in lately that have used banned substances that we are not allowed to use here but they get the sales because they are cheap.
Workplace safety has gone overboard. You pretty much need a licence to step onto a ladder nowadays. Every little 2 bit factory insists you have to slip on a safety vest so you can walk into the workshop, even though they only have one forklift that they might use once a week.
It’s no wonder they ship things off to be serviced elsewhere.
Reminds me of a mate who worked for a company many years ago. They went through all the bullshit to get QA accredited in order to win a contract they wanted which insisted that you needed the accreditation to be considered.
The contract was finally awarded to a company that didn’t have accreditation simply because they were cheaper than all the accredited firms.
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Commisserations, Stan.
It all goes in cycles - remember when Japan was where the cheap, nasty stuff was made, and American stuff was good quality?
Without tarifs or other types of industry protection, it is inevitable that manufacturing will move to the least expensive country... We've all got to try to find the balance of cost vs our standards of living (see GMC's post).
As energy costs increase, it will become less viable to freight stuff all over the world - the extra labour costs will be offset by the larger transport costs.
I also suspect that in the nearish future, it will make sense to avoid the current disposable attitude and return to quality manufacturing. In terms of energy usage, a quality product requires about the same energy as a rubbish one - but if the energy costs quadruple, then the price difference between the products is minimised. Whether this helps us or not, is another story...
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Japan, china, other asian country are taking other Australia, sorry to here that stan.
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Workplace safety has gone overboard. You pretty much need a licence to step onto a ladder nowadays. Every little 2 bit factory insists you have to slip on a safety vest so you can walk into the workshop, even though they only have one forklift that they might use once a week.
Yeah i can remember, all of sudden, from about the early 2000's i reckon many workplaces required you wear yellow hi-vis shirts/jumpers/vests etc, all the winery workers and bottling factories etc. You cant go no where now with out seeing someone in hi-vis yellow now.
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This situation isn't new, I know a fellow that works for Alpine-Vorst a Austrian underground mining machine manufacturer. Alpine know full well that one of their brand new miners will be sold into China dismantled and copied and be on the market for 1/3rd the cost. However when the Chinese have that ready to roll Alpine will be showing the new next generation miner to the big mining companies, faster, less maintenance, lower operating costs, safer and greater capacity, for a small increase in cost. Big mining companies love that, the Chinese sell to other Chinese mining companies not to the Rio Tinto's etc etc.
We just have to be smarter.
If you worked in a bottling factory hi vis makes lots of sense.
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Was it Abrahm Lincon that said 'Any man can deal with adversity, but to test a mans true character give him power' Small people with small amounts of power bringing a country to it's knees with over regulation to justify their overpayed existance.
They obviously think that all the talented self enterprising people who dream, build, create and just generally make the wheels of life turn. Are far too stupid to know when a power lead needs to be replaced.
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It's time, Stan.
Get yourself a coupla young pocket rocket racers; two pair of Maico 490s (GMC-kitted); start a team ... and go kick some ass in the 2011 MX Nats!
Maybe Coppins can sign-on too ...
Just imagine the extra numbers of (older) folk who'd come pay to see that!
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It's called Free Trade. It's suppose to be a 'good thing' ::).
Ultimately it's not a good thing for Australia but it's a bigger issue for America. Makes you wonder where it will all end :P.
Sorry to hear your plight Stan. I hope the Golden Handshake brings some relief.
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I reckon I rode "the last wave"
Did my time as a toolmaker with James N Kirby in Milperra NSW when the whole of Sydney was a manufacturing city only to watch it all go to shit! As we kept on closing factories I used to think (incorrectly) that white goods and other bulky goods would always be made here (eg Hoover at Meadowbank) - WRONG !!! The Hoover sight is one big cluster f..k housing estate now
The whole thing sucks.
Don't panic though guys and gals - Parliament has reconvened in Canberra this week and all those nice politicians will see the error of their ways and fix it all for us :D :D :D
God help us all !!!
Dave Mac >:( :o ::)
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Sorry to here that Stan , good luck for the future :)
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NOAH TODAY
In the year 2010, the Lord came unto Noah, who was now living in Bega (Gods country ?) and said:
"Once again, the earth has become wicked and over
-populated, and I see the end of all flesh before me.
Build another Ark and save 2 of every living thing along with a few good humans."
He gave Noah the blueprints, saying:
"You have 6 months to build the Ark before I will start the unending rain for 40 days and 40 nights."
Six months later, the Lord looked down and saw Noah weeping in his yard - but no Ark.
"Noah!," He roared,
"I'm about to start the rain! Where is the Ark?"
"Forgive me, Lord," begged Noah,
"but things have changed since you asked me to build your 1st Ark."
"I needed a Building Permit."
"I've been arguing with the Building Inspector
about the need for a sprinkler system."
"My neighbours claim that I've violated the Bega Valley LEP and DCP, numerous SEPs and many other Regulations by building the Ark in my back garden and exceeding the height limitations.
We had to go to the Bega Valley Council and now we have to go to the Regional Planning Committee for a decision and then to the NSW Land & Environment Court."
"The RTA; Council and the Electricity Company have demanded a shirt load of money for the future costs of moving power lines and other overhead obstructions to clear the passage for the Ark's move to the sea.
I told them that the sea would be coming to us and it would float itself, but they would hear nothing of it..."
"Getting the wood was another problem. There's a ban
on cutting local trees in order to save the Barking Owl habitat."
"I tried to convince the Council, The Green’s and local environmentalists that I needed the wood to save these same owls - but NO - GO!"
"When I started gathering the animals the RSPCA took me to court. They insisted that I was confining wild animals against their will.
They argued the accommodations were too restrictive, and
it was cruel and inhumane to put so many animals in
a confined space."
"Then the Green’s put pressure on the NSW Environmental Protection Agency ruled that I couldn't build the Ark until they'd conducted an environmental impact study on YOUR proposed flood."
"I'm still trying to resolve a complaint with the Equal Opportunity Commission & Labour Council on how many minorities and women I'm
supposed to hire for my building gang."
"Immigration are checking the
Visa status of most of the people who do want to work."
"The Building trade unions say I can't use my sons.
They insist I have to hire only Union workers with
Ark-building experience."
"To make matters worse, the ATO and Customs seized all my assets, claiming I'm trying to leave the country illegally with endangered species."
"So, forgive me, Lord, but it will take at least 20
years for me to finish this Ark."
"Suddenly the skies cleared, the sun began to shine,
and a rainbow stretched across the sky."
Noah looked up in wonder and asked,
"You mean you're not going to destroy the world?"
"No," said the Lord.
"The AUSTRALIAN GREENS and LABOR PARTY have beaten me to it."
#8
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go read it.
http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/rp/1999-2000/2000rp07.htm
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I did my apprenticeship at Malleys in Auburn. When I started in 77 there were about 600 employees and we made everything from Fridges & Washing machines to Jugs & Toaters, even Heating Elements for other companies.
When the Government took away Tarrifs on imports Malleys died overnight.
OH&S has become a growth industry on its own and makes it bloody difficult for the little bloke to stay competitive.
My theory is that both the Legal System and the Big end of town are trying to force the Little bloke out of business because in todays litigese society the Little bloke aint worth persuing compared to other big company's.
Sorry to here whats happened Stan and best of luck.
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I was making [ here in Warwick ] a small hobby press [ 45kg] which was a pretty good seller.
Was for leather work and the like . [ Malcom Douglas bought 2 ]
We were exporting them but thought we could do better, SOOO we went to the AUSTRALIAN EXPORT ENHANCEMENT PROGRAMME and asked them what we could do . :)
The answer ?
Make them in CHINA ??? ???
We pay these people and this is the answer we get. ??? ???
Why don,t we get CHINA to pay these people and We can spend their wages elsewhere?
I remember The worlds smartest politician [ Jones ], winner of many TV quiz shows, saying in the early 80,s that manufacturing was a dud and that information teck was the way Australia would be heading in the future.
I wondered at the time if you could eat, wear or drive this magical " information " .
Guess NOT. :o
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You know what Stan, GOOD people are good people no matter what, you will get a job. I dont know any of you guys personally but i am a memeber and have read a lot and learned a lot, mostly that you guys are all mates and dickheads dont have a lot of them, so i reckon good people one and all, YOU WILL GET WORK EASILY, good people always do.
cheers,
Kt
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[quote ]
Its sad isnt it. im sick of the junk made in asia, especially China [/quote]
ps Stan S has got a job since this thread started 8) Thought Id reboot this out of interest of whats coming into the country !!
The Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service (AQIS) has come under fire after 600 tonnes of what was supposed to be Chinese fertiliser turned out to be dirt.
A dozen farmers from Condobolin in western New South Wales ordered the fertiliser through a supplier listed on a Chinese website of accredited companies.
The shipment arrived in Australia in May, but because the material was carried in bags smaller than 50 kilograms it was not inspected by quarantine officials or the Australian Customs and Border Protection Service.
It was only when the parcels reached Condobolin that the farmers discovered the bags actually contained soil, which is considered contaminated because it could contain seeds or diseases.
Liberal Senator Bill Heffernan says the farmers are now paying storage costs for the dirt until it can be safely disposed of.
He says they have had no help from the Federal Government.
"Both the Australian Government and the Chinese government have decided to look the other way and I have to say I have every intention of making sure that they address this problem," Senator Heffernan said.
"Because it's not only a breach of trade protocols, it's a breach of everything we stand for in terms of keeping Australia clean, green and free."
Senator Heffernan says the quarantine and Customs authorities must be held accountable.
"If you can put 34 containers of earth through Customs and quarantine that's actually supposed to be fertiliser, what else can you put through?" he said.
The ABC has contacted AQIS for a response.
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fertiliser hey!!! all they had to do is to address it it to "farmer mohammed of condobolin" and i bet your bottom dollar it would of been checked.
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its the way of the world.There will be naf all manufacturing in Unzud in 5 yrs,thats why youth of nz are going to Auz for jobs,we are becoming a land of logistics ,freight and warehouses selling chinese shit,drive around and 90% of factorys are full of service industry not manufatureres.never mind our Govt is trying to get a trade deal with India and India is the new China, Feck we are screwd.
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Carbon tax will be the final nail for any manufacturing still in existance.
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its the way of the world.There will be naf all manufacturing in Unzud in 5 yrs,thats why youth of nz are going to Auz for jobs,we are becoming a land of logistics ,freight and warehouses selling chinese shit,drive around and 90% of factorys are full of service industry not manufatureres.never mind our Govt is trying to get a trade deal with India and India is the new China, Feck we are screwd.
You're not wrong there Bazza, I'm a toolmaker & once Fonterra & Goodman Fielder ditch plastic bottles for bags for their milk I'll be tossed on the scrap heap :(
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yes and the current and previous governments ( labour and liberal) were/are quite happy to sit back and watch it all happen. fork those governments and sucking up to the Septics/Asia and every other nation thats undermines our industry's be it agriculture, manufacturing for what they call fair trade "fair for who" not future generations that's for sure. >:(
I'm with you Hoony. Why on earth do we allow it ? No one no union or pollie spoke up about keatings " level playing field" , now everyone complains that everything is made in China where they work for $100-$200 a month.Privatization ( selling the farm) got a whimper but not much else .Our PM's kept brown nosing the Yanks when they were destroying our wheat exports with their subsidies.Why?
Globalization - Carbon tax (Gillards Handicap) what else can they throw at us? We are still the lucky one but our future generations won't be so lucky. Shits me too.
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It all started earlier than Keating .
I can remember a labor polly called Barry Jones [ he was on sale of the century and was real bright, apparently ]
Anyhow he said that it was time [ 1982/3] to drop manufacturing because it had no future and to go down the IT information path.
[During that time we lost a lot of manufacturing in Aus.]
Like all pollys he didn,t realize that you have to have some one to do the work.
Anyhow myself and lot of my mates [ all fitter n turners ] left the trade and went truck driving , earth moving and farming and most of us NEVER went back to our trade.
Muggins me went back . Duhh
When they were making the power station at Millmerran they suddenly discovered that they could not find any fitter n turners and they were wondering why.
I asked my mates and they said that they wouldn,t work for shit money anymore.
Now if you want a fitter n turner you have to pay through the nose , how times have changed.
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It all started earlier than Keating .
I can remember a labor polly called Barry Jones [ he was on sale of the century and was real bright, apparently ]
Anyhow he said that it was time [ 1982/3] to drop manufacturing because it had no future and to go down the IT information path.
Yes I remember him , 82- 83 was Hawke /Keating government .Keating was treasurer. Keating made most of the changes -I thought he was behind "the clever country" - all computer programers but maybe he just had a bigger voice than Jones. Anyway it was about the same time. The level playing field came after the deregulation of banks and the beginning of selling the farm . 84 he proposed GST - my father always wondered what those two were doing in the labour party.
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"If the government wants these smaller communities to prosper, they are going to have to commit more funds to them, to create better infrastructure and services to both keep people in, and attract people to, the communities."
Alision,
You are 100% correct the whole concept of FIFO is crazy.
But the mining companies are the ones that set the rules for this practice, and now you are asking that the community at large fund infrastructure in these towns to accommodate the [relatively] short-term requirements of the mining companies. Wouldn't every business like this kind of support which would effectively be a huge benefit to their bottomlines.
It is amazing that the miners can spend $25 million to scuttle the Mining Tax and then ask for what are more hand outs to enable them to send even more money offshore. Now that the public has wised up to the lies used to propagate this farce it seems too late [politically] to remedy the situation and get a fair return for our mineral assets.
My heart goes out to the residents of the small towns affected, but throwing money at the problem is a simplistic solution to a problem created by corporations well aware of the realities of conducting business in remote locations. Sure we can spend public money to expand these towns, but then in 20 years time we will be reading the reports of towns dying now that the miners have moved on… or the mining companies can deal with the reality of their enterprises and fund the requirements of their workforce from their enormous surpluses and profits.
Or they can put their hands out… [again]
VMX42
As for your dream to go back to an earlier time where life was supposedly perfect… I share your dream, but reality has a habit of squashing those kinds of ideals. Or maybe we are just getting old?
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The demise of manufacturing in Australia isn't wholly an Australian problem, most of the (previously) industrialised world is losing its manufacturing to China, India or wherever the items can be produced for a viable price. Detroit auto maufacturing would shut up shop tomorrow if it wasn't for US government subsidies and tax breaks. When Japanese cars are being made in China and much of the worlds electronics made either in China or Korea the plight of Vegemite manufacture going offshore seems a bit insignicent. This has been slowly happening for 50 years but we've all turned a blind eye because in the end we all love a bargain.
Blaming governments and big business might give us something to vent our angst upon but the bottom line is that we're all to blame and it's now way too late to very much to alter the course. Greed wins every time ;)
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its the way of the world.There will be naf all manufacturing in Unzud in 5 yrs,thats why youth of nz are going to Auz for jobs,we are becoming a land of logistics ,freight and warehouses selling chinese shit,drive around and 90% of factorys are full of service industry not manufatureres.
The economic theory is the labor that was previously involved in manufacture is then freed to move into areas of the economy where we have some comparitive advantage over the competition, like mining, logistics or agricultural production.
So I think the decline of manufacture is not all bad as it allows us to focus our labor resources where we have an advantage, so more labor can migrate to mining reducing production costs or move into the service industry armed with new skills.
I originally trained as fitter turner, saw the writing on the wall for manufacture and returned to University and graduated in logistics. Really Aussie an NZ only have the option of raw material and service business, the Indians and Chinese have endless pull of cheap labor for manufacture and smart labor for high tech, so in all other areas can stomp us like a bug.
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If we want to keep our manufacturing we must have cheap labour...cheap labour comes from immigration when people move from depression(suppresion) to a better life and then work for better standards in their lives. Mexicans(and others) have traditionally moved to the US, got low paid jobs to feed themselves and worked up from there-when they had the drive to do so.
We have plenty of immigrants coming here, but they are joining the gravy train and not at the bottom of the ladder. The system here does not allow for cheap labour/2nd class citizens so we either have to do it ourselves and settle for less or lose the right to produce. Any clothing maker here either sidesteps the system with women working from home for stuff all, or they close down.
The only places this can happen-cheap labour- is in family run businesses like resturants and now days, gas stations and the like.
These migrants leave their homelands purely to gain economic growth/wealth-if they could do it at home they certainly would.
We are stuffed.
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We are stuffed.
No I tend not to agree, the Germans have experienced almost a 25% increase in demand for their high end manufactured goods in the last 3 years since Lehmann, despite high labor costs.
What we have never done is developed our manufacturing industry to produce products for which there is a global demand and brand awareness, develop an education system to support the management and technical level required to produce the products. So what happened was you had a manufacturing sector that without Government subsidies, tariffs etc wasn't to global standard either product or cost wise.
The service industries however did quite well with some stand outs like banking, due I think mainly to them being vastly more exposed to global competition so having to be competitive or go out of business. Plus they tend to attract a better educated work force which makes them more competitive.
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Plus Banking allows people to keep their hands clean, provides a better Social standing, and pays better.
Forty years ago I was working for a manufacturing company with a very comprehensive machine shop and one of the best Toolrooms in Perth, but we were losing machinists hand over fist to the Service Industry. Our guys could make a lot more money for less hours wearing an apron and managing a McDonalds or a KFC outlet. It's going to be extremely difficult to re establish heavy manufacturing in Australia, a few niche markets maybe, otherwise I think we need to get used to the idea that it ain't going to happen. >:(
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We are stuffed.
No I tend not to agree, the Germans have experienced almost a 25% increase in demand for their high end manufactured goods in the last 3 years since Lehmann, despite high labor costs.
What we have never done is developed our manufacturing industry to produce products for which there is a global demand and brand awareness, develop an education system to support the management and technical level required to produce the products. So what happened was you had a manufacturing sector that without Government subsidies, tariffs etc wasn't to global standard either product or cost wise.
Well said Marc, and all too true. We can give up as Walter suggests or make quality value added products that people want to buy. Quality and innovation will never go out of style…
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the plight of Vegemite
oops !! should of been the Holden in that post somewhere ;D
The changing face of Australia has been going on for sometime obvoiusly.With the immigrantes after the war and populating/clearing the land.
Though its happening at alarming rate at the moment and no care/cost for the middle man.
Oh well nearly the weekend and time for bikes ;D
cheers A
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oops !! should of been the Holden in that post somewhere
Not so sure about that Alison, much of the components may be made slsewhere but the last I saw the good old Holden was still made here.
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The reason I say we are not screwed is I think there are Australian manufacturers out there in quite different industries who are all world class and compete in markets where you would assume they are not competitive against the Chinese or Koreans or Europeans.
I think we focus too much on the so called 'iconic' traditional Aussie companies and business areas we are no longer going to compete in, and not enough on Aussie companies operate at the standard of the benchmark Germans.
http://www.matrixap.com.au/
http://www.dux.com.au/
http://onesteel.com/profile.asp
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What we have never done is developed our manufacturing industry to produce products for which there is a global demand and brand awareness, develop an education system to support the management and technical level required to produce the products. So what happened was you had a manufacturing sector that without Government subsidies, tariffs etc wasn't to global standard either product or cost wise.
Hear! Hear!
In Germany, an Engineer is seen as an exalted position. A Professor is ranked up there. Yet here? FFS we rate Warrick Cappa or some Radio loudmouth higher... No wonder we don't produce world class manufactured goods.
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The reason I say we are not screwed is I think there are Australian manufacturers out there in quite different industries who are all world class and compete in markets where you would assume they are not competitive against the Chinese or Koreans or Europeans.
True ;D
The Costa Group is Australia's largest private producer, marketer and exporter of high-quality fresh fruit and vegetables. Based in Victoria, with production, trading and logistical operations throughout Australia and internationally, Costa is a full-service grower, packer, shipper, marketer, importer and exporter. Investing significantly in farming, varietal research, purpose built 'value-adding' facilities, state of the art distribution operations, tier-one management systems and advanced warehouse technology, Costa has assisted in bringing world's best practice and horticultural innovation to Australia.
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Started working for myself in 1992, machinery & metal fabrication, instalation & repairs.
Struggled to get $30.00 an hour.
Today, $80.00 an hour and even that struggles to keep up with the bill's.
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In Germany, an Engineer is seen as an exalted position. A Professor is ranked up there.
I routinely and jokingly refer to some of my friends as "Herr doktor Professor Ing".
Luke, engineers have always been regarded as inferior in english speaking countries. Odd really because people like Brunel, Bazelgette etc were lauded.
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I was offered a position at one of the Australian Technical Universities and they apologised in advance for the salary. It is probably about the same as an apprentice on a minesite gets. ::)
It is definitely true that the German speaking world has a much different regard for higher education. My own theory is that 'class' played a much greater role in England and Anglo Saxon society, where what school you went to had more importance than the actual knowledge acquired.
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Never a truer word Marc.
We have followed and looked up to the class system from the mother country for way too ffffing long and where you actually went to school is a complete & utter load of shit.
Nepatism achieves f all, apart from rewarding mediocraty.
Some one shoot me, I'm getting all serious.
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money talks and bullshit walks, well not really money does talk and bullshit gets paid a lot these days. For how long is the question. The days are coming Money will allwys talk, Bullshit will walk and practical real people will have thier day just like other times and other places.
Brett
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I have only just read this post:and what a sad sick state of affairs we have.Is there any hope ?I started another topic about tarring and feathering because of the stone wall I have run into over a corperation,but only now do I realise the extent of the malaise that has befallen our country,Perhaps the people who are ocupying the city square have a valid point.Our goverments have been[ and still are] short sighted.They would not train new tradesmen [or trades people].And have folowed a policy of;"if you cant dazzle them with brilliance , then baffle them with bullshit".p
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,Perhaps the people who are ocupying the city square have a valid point..
I think they have a valid point about using national debt to underwrite corporate investments. As for apprenticeships, not sure the youth of today finds the concept that appealing/
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Difficult situation, i would love to blame it all on Gillard the clown or Rudd the dudd, But this has been going on right through the eightys as far as i know anyway.. No easy answeres... more than a bit sad to think about it. But were the guys in the 70's also worried and for that matter the 50's or did they have other things to worry about. We all love the easy out. I do wonder if Compulsory National service would help.
Brett
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I do wonder if Compulsory National service would help.
Brett
No I think a haircut being told what to do would get the Aussie youth angrier than the Greeks and Italians.
So anyway the demise of a number of things including manufacturing is getting more likely everyday. Globally post Lehman we used the Visa card to pay off the Mastercard bill and we are running out of sweet options.
Every country has its own little shop of horrors, the EU has colossal debts in the South, the Germans and the French have the problem of being the ones loaning it, the States has horror unemployment and little idea how to fix it, the Chinese have the problem that people may get tired of living in a police state if the money dries up and Australia and New Zealand have the issue of a household debt level that would gag a horse and is totally reliant on historically low interest rates and that people generally keeping paying their mortgage even if the kids have no shoes.
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What Marc said!
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What Marc said!
So Nathan my friend the only question remaining is WTF to do next. There will be winners and losers but doubt VMX bikes ever going to be as expensive again so we are all winners on this forum.... well unless you need to sell.
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Hers my slant on it ( nz perspective only)
1 stop telling all children that they are going to be IT techs and brain surgeons. Give the ones that arnt a chance to get into trade training at school ie bring back the encouragement for metal shop etc. Stop trying to give everyone a University outcome.And stop grading schools accordinly.
2 Stop trying to employ only the people with the paper quals , most good trades persons do not hold higher education and are often more creative and inovotive than those that do.
3 compuslery retirement !! The youth need the jobs . and dont ggive the they cant do my job speech , i know they cant but someone in their 40s can and then the 20 year olds move up allowing for the youth in the bottom, what we would save on social payments and social issues would allow to pay a hight retirement fund to those who have earnt it.We have 30% youth unemployment in some age groups ( arab spring anyone).
4.Control immigration for meanial tasks like fruit picking etc, give the jobs to the people here . if they dont take them without reasonable cause , then no dole etc. But also try to create some pride in actually working .we also have to stop thinking we are better than those job ( again this starts at school)
I noticed in OZ that there is still alot of pride in being a tradie , we really need to reinstall that here.
Tarrif the F@#k out of what I call fluff. vases, paper decorations from overseas etc. Keep it simple Stop wanting everthing cheap ,it is our drive to have cheap crap that has caused the shops to go offshore.
Its got to be a grumpy friday eh!
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Hers my slant on it ( nz perspective only)
1 stop telling all children that they are going to be IT techs and brain surgeons. Stop trying to give everyone a University outcome.And stop grading schools accordinly.
Its got to be a grumpy friday eh!
Yeah i would tend to agree about University outcome, the opportunities should exist for those who want to be there, BUT other opportunities like trades should be available/ again with the Germans they have two or actually 3 types of high school and you enter either a technical or gymnasium which prepares for University depending on your academic achievement and inclination.
But this requires you to grade students and word like 'elitist' and 'discrimination' tend to creep in shag things up. God help the world if we graded and had a lack of brown people at Gymnasium or save us from the parents if a couple of Chinese kids ended up at a technical school.
As for Universities once you get there, there are really two factions within academia, those who see University as purely academic promoting research, developing minds etc and those who see it as vocational training, preparing people for jobs. Given that it can cost about 40-60K to complete a degree I tend to lean toward vocational training being of greater benefit to society in general who finally is footing a good chunk of the education bill.
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Tarrif the F@#k out of what I call fluff. vases, paper decorations from overseas etc.
Not allowed to do that here in Aus asasin we signed a bit o paper saying we wouldn't.
Nz gotta sell their apples somewhere hey ;D
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1 stop telling all children that they are going to be IT techs and brain surgeons. Give the ones that arnt a chance to get into trade training at school ie bring back the encouragement for metal shop etc. Stop trying to give everyone a University outcome.And stop grading schools accordinly.
A friend of mine in Scotland, a graduate and fellow classic dirt bike fiend sat down and talked to his son about this and, as a result, son is now a joiner. No useless uni degree (B.Man.Sci?) for him.
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I have said this before.
"Someone has got to do the work."
We can't ALL be Chiefs. ;)
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Tarrif the F@#k out of what I call fluff. vases, paper decorations from overseas etc.
Not allowed to do that here in Aus asasin we signed a bit o paper saying we wouldn't.
Nz gotta sell their apples somewhere hey ;D
Food moving around the world I can accept no tarrifs , both countries would be stuffed if that happened, what I am refering to is trinkets , things we do not need to survive. even it it looses its tarrif if assembled in your country would be ok. but fully built up tvs, etc should wear it. We need to keep both skills and machinery in our own back yard or what happens when it is all gone elsewhere? The price goes up!
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No useless uni degree (B.Man.Sci?) for him.
Theres lots of ways to view this subject, at the moment undergrad degree like BSc is probably not enough to get you a good gig, you really are expected to have a Masters. If you team BSc up with MBA for example you have the technical and commercial education which would be the pre requisite for most senior management positions.
I think there is a pre conception that Universities offer no vocational skills whatsoever which is not the case. A part of there funding is decided by the schools success in job placement, which is the Governments way of keeping them focused on teaching relevant skills.
Mostly depends on whether you are happy to be a joiner. Like it or not there are still benefits both social and financial in a terrtiary education.
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An MBA is now considered with some derision Marc. The qualification was originally intended to make engineers/scientists more financially literate after 5-10 yrs at the sharp end but when uni's started letting BA grads in it was cheapened.
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My boy did 5 yrs training in film and theatre during his high school because we asked him what he wanted to do. When it was time to go to Uni he wanted to continue with film and photography but was told he didn't qualify-but he would qualify to do physcology!!!!!WTF. He is now doing a trade in air conditioning :D :D go where the money is.
Marc, you can't say we don't value add enough here-our coal is the blackest around and the chinese can't get enough of the stuff.
I do worry though that by the time we're done, we will have nothing here but a big hole in the ground. Maybe it will fill with water and we can on-sell that. :D :D
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Trinckets is probably the most apt description. You lot seem concerned that manufacuring of consumer goods is moving off shore. TV's, cameras and the like. The Asians are far superior at this sort of thing. The west must concentrate on niche products like earthmoving equip, big alternators/geneartors, specialized metrology gear and the like. Most importantly I believe we must concentrate on originality, whether of product or process. This is our strong point. The Asians, as we have discussed in tha past, are not very good at lateral thought.
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An MBA is now considered with some derision Marc. The qualification was originally intended to make engineers/scientists more financially literate after 5-10 yrs at the sharp end but when uni's started letting BA grads in it was cheapened.
I agree Tim, I would view MBA as part of a package with your undergrad degree, that why I noted a technical degree supplemented by MBA which as you mentioned gives commercial education. You have to put the cart before the horse, in my case I intentionally did both BSc degree and MBA simultaneously, found a loop hole in the regulations and used my MBA subjects to exempt undergrad subjects shamelesly. ;D
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Two lines of thought from me.
1/ My worry is that in an alarming similarity to late 1920s to many people are living on income from shares and not actual work output.
The result of this,the great depression.
Looking around, its de ja vu.
2/ It seems the world economy is being dragged down by largely places like U.S.A where we see the big income earners not paying there way in taxes and demanding welfare cuts instead. The old 'cooporate greed is good for the country'.
Also the example of Greece where it seems that 'the world still owes us a living even though we've sat on our A.. I mean hands for years'.
cheers.
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By the way, my friends manufacturing business that has been in dire straights for the last year or so now has work till June. Maybe things are looking up.
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I don't have any answers, but...
We've got to grow the hell up over globalisation.
If we get cheap stuff from overseas, then its at the expense of local producers/manufacturers - we can't have our cake and eat it too (at least not in the longer term).
A genuinely globalised economy would end up with every country having the same average income - and for a developed country like Australia, that would be a HUGE drop...
Until we all realise and openly acknowledge this, we'll be flapping aimlessly forever more.
What we need to do, is step back and say "Is globalisation working for us in the long term?" and have a sensible look at the whole enormous picture.
I suspect that if we did that, we'd end up bringing back in a whole lot of protectionist policies that have been progressively disbanded over the last 35 years or so - and that most of us would squeal like stuck pigs when we realised that everything is really f#$ing expensive again...
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The skills market has gone where the money is. Always has, always will.
There was a boom in IT years ago and the predictable skills shortage, so of course school kids wanted to be a part of it - good money and good employment prospects...
The reality is that we still don't have an excess of properly skilled IT workers - look at how much stuff gets shipped offshore... (refer also to the real effects of globalisation).
Similarly, I know plenty of tradies who are earning way more than uni grads - inc graduates with "proper degrees" - and that's before you look at mine workers who often aren't even trade qualified.
All of this goes in cycles, and we're currently at a point in the cycle where properly skilled people are finding it easy to get work regardless of their vocation. The question is whether the work pays "well enough".
I think there's a significant point to be made about how a combination of social conditioning and real estate prices have made us all think that we deserve to earn mega-bucks, and that creates a shortage of workers for unskilled (read: low paying) jobs. The simple reality is that you will genuinely struggle to survive on a full-time retail wage if you live in any Australian city and have to pay rent (or a mortgage, god forbid).
Instead, we all crap on about promotions and opportunities and our investments - thirty years ago, this was not normal conversation. We were much more easily satisfied and much less aspirational. A good mate of mine and his wife both work full time, while paying off their modest house in Blacktown - they literally cannot afford to have kids even though they both desperately want to... They're slaves to their (not particularly large) mortgage instead. I think its absolutely appalling that this happens. He talks semiseriously about waiting until their house is worth more (ha!) and then moving to 'the country' where its cheaper and they might be able to survive on one income - and away from their friends and families...
I can't see the current state of play being sustainable - as Mike52 said, "we can't all be chiefs".
Look at the way eveyone talks about the family home as a commodity nowdays. WTF is that about? Why can't it be a place to live, store your crap and raise a family, like it was when we were kids?
Why are so many new homes McMansions? What happened to people building two-bedroom houses that didn't cost eight times the average national wage? Hell, the new three beddy is an endangered species, despite the falling birth rate...
I honestly think that our collective aspiration is doing us no good. We're not happier for all of the extra crap we surround ourselves in.
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The Hawke/Keating era aim for "the clever country" is widely misrepresented nowdays, BTW. It was about the country having the intellectual skills in place rather than just relying on selling resources. It wasn't about devaluing trades, or forgetting that we need people to build houses.
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This became far more of a ramble and far more off-topic than I intended. Sorry!
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I agree Nathan we seem to be too interested in gaining "shit" rather than living in our means.
Rembember when it only too the one income to support a household ???
Dont worry about rambiling , Its grumpy Friday ;D
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We're not happier for all of the extra crap we surround ourselves in.
Want a bet !! ;D ;) :P (referring to vintage mx gear)
Out of the 160 students in graduated class of 2009, about 10 went to Uni,the rest are employeed in apprentiships,Coles,Hair,Beauty,auto shops,building,mining etc and some of course produced kids ;D
Quiet alot of these stayed here in the local country towns.
cheers A
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the wife reckons that the Wasp is a 'trinket' Maybe we are all to blame but more trinkets-bring it on!!!
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Its very difficult to arbitrarily impose tariffs/quotas on certain type of goods as the countries of origin will retaliate and impose tariffs on our products and Australia is too small a global player (except for mining) too make any difference (can anyone say carbon tax >:()
Mandatory early retirement although sounding like a good idea to encourage employment will actually decrease consumer demand as less money being spent and therefore less need for things to be made/sold, bit of a vicious circle or a dog chasing it's tail, depends on your point of view (or which school of economic theory you follow) The mining industry is making it hard for employers as everyone wants to work in a mine and earn a heaps of $ and only work one week out of three.
One of the reasons for high cost of manufacturing (if you exclude the interferance of unions) is the endless OHS requirements. I was at a career seminar at the local school and the council was saying that you now have to have a certificate to use a whipper snipper :o
I'm now looking to a MBA or masters after doing my undergrad nearly 20 years ago, MBA were cheapened a bit in the 80's and 90's when they were giving them away like candy and although it will cost a fortune and take ages, hopefully it will help with those senior mgmt positions, just have to get the right advice and do the right course at the right uni
Don't get me started on the farming sector and the abhorrent treatment of prime farming land by both the miners and the govt, how are we going to feed all these prople when the ground is scarred and the water is contaminated >:(
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All of this goes in cycles, and we're currently at a point in the cycle where properly skilled people are finding it easy to get work regardless of their vocation.
Ha ha bloody ha!
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Mandatory early retirement although sounding like a good idea to encourage employment will actually decrease consumer demand as less money being spent and therefore less need for things to be made/sold, bit of a vicious circle or a dog chasing it's tail, depends on your point of view (or which school of economic theory you follow)
I bet a young person with a job and a future will buy more ( all be it on hock ;D) than a older established person.
I also reccomended that a portion of the social money we save be redistributed to the elderly for a higher pension.
The older person has had their chance to get it sorted it is now time for the young to fall into the same holes ;)
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All of this goes in cycles, and we're currently at a point in the cycle where properly skilled people are finding it easy to get work regardless of their vocation.
Ha ha bloody ha!
I think it is 'Resume Builders' with all the 'paperwork' but no hands on experience that get the guernsey these days isn't it? It's not what you know it's who you know. Bullshit baffles brains. Office politics. "No one gets fired for buying an IBM".
I've seen that being the scenario many times - especially in the Public Service, Govt contracting and tendering generally. The Big End of Town is no where near as smart and deserving as they would like the plebs to think. It's more about position and power and scratching each others back. That's the secret (and the contacts) that is passed from father to son amongst The Establishment.
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I'm now looking to a MBA or masters after doing my undergrad nearly 20 years ago, hopefully it will help with those senior mgmt positions, just have to get the right advice and do the right course at the right uni
I did MBA with logistics major at the business school of the Maritime College ( UTAS), can't recommend it enough, what I learned on Monday I could use on Tuesday, a lot of the tutors come directly from industry as opposed to career academics . It took two years and 30K but I probably made that back in bonus's the first year after I graduated. ;D
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All of this goes in cycles, and we're currently at a point in the cycle where properly skilled people are finding it easy to get work regardless of their vocation.
Ha ha bloody ha!
One of my rally mates is a landscaper. Like many self-employed tradies, he's been doing it very tough since the GFC and hasn't been shy about telling people this - sold his rally car, blah blah.
The reality is that after a few very lean months, he's now making a wage that's above the national average and not having a drama servicing his debts - but his wage has been significantly reduced from the stratospheric levels of a few years ago and they've had to change their lifestyle to suit.
He honestly thinks he's poor.
Similarly, last time I looked (post GFC), there were dozens of jobs advertised for my qualifications/experience - hell, I still get a phone call about every twelve months from a previous employer asking for me to come back... But I didn't consider any of them because they all involved a pay cut and/or reduction in conditions... Hence my next sentence being: "The question is whether the work pays "well enough"." ;)
Its a particularly Australian trait to always think that we're incredibly hard done by - we're forever whinging that we don't get paid enough, get taxed too much, work too hard, etc.
If we shut up and had a look at the rest of the world occasionally, we'd realise that we've got very little to complain about.
Hell, Howard's decline in the polls began just after he said that "the average Aussie has never been better off" - he was right, but we didn't want to hear it.
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Its a particularly Australian trait to always think that we're incredibly hard done by - we're forever whinging that we don't get paid enough, get taxed too much, work too hard, etc.
If we shut up and had a look at the rest of the world occasionally, we'd realise that we've got very little to complain about.
Hell, Howard's decline in the polls began just after he said that "the average Aussie has never been better off" - he was right, but we didn't want to hear it.
Nathan, you are a very brave man. Haven't you learnt that telling the truth will only get you into trouble - everybody wants to blame somebody else for their perceived problems - can't have individual responsibility now can we. That would be Un-Australian.
I can see why you aren't in politics, the incumbents wouldn't know what to make of you. Probably think you were some kind of alien or something. ;D
VMX42
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If we shut up and had a look at the rest of the world occasionally, we'd realise that we've got very little to complain about.
Hell, Howard's decline in the polls began just after he said that "the average Aussie has never been better off" - he was right, but we didn't want to hear it.
Hallelujah baby jesus!
I've been on the planet for six decades and politically aware for four of them and for as long as I can remember Aussies have been whingeing and whining about how the county's going down the gurgler. I've given up trying to convince people that we're doing pretty damn well when compared to most other societies in the world. I just let the miserable bastards carry on with the 'Great Australian Winge', it just plain isn't worth the trouble arguing the point with people who are convinced that we're doomed. I've lived long term in three countries besides Australia and none of those so-called Utopias come within a cooee of the lifestyle and personal wealth we take for granted.
We are indeed the Lucky Country, I just wish more people believed it. ;)
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I'd like to paraphrase Homer Simpson: I have motorcycles,cars,houses,money in the bank,gold bars stashed away and expensive clothes; but do you know what ? I'd swap it all for more.p
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If we shut up and had a look at the rest of the world occasionally, we'd realise that we've got very little to complain about.
Hell, Howard's decline in the polls began just after he said that "the average Aussie has never been better off" - he was right, but we didn't want to hear it.
Hallelujah baby jesus!
I've been on the planet for six decades and politically aware for four of them and for as long as I can remember Aussies have been whingeing and whining about how the county's going down the gurgler. I've given up trying to convince people that we're doing pretty damn well when compared to most other societies in the world. I just let the miserable bastards carry on with the 'Great Australian Winge', it just plain isn't worth the trouble arguing the point with people who are convinced that we're doomed. I've lived long term in three countries besides Australia and none of those so-called Utopias come within a cooee of the lifestyle and personal wealth we take for granted.
We are indeed the Lucky Country, I just wish more people believed it. ;)
To paraphrase someone famous, the price of wealth is perpetual vigilance ;) :)
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A fool and his money are soon parted. (It applies to nations as much as individuals ;)).
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To paraphrase someone famous, the price of wealth is perpetual vigilance ;) :)
or
A fool and his money are soon parted. (It applies to nations as much as individuals ;)).
that would be
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
-- Thomas Jefferson
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Nathan, you are a very brave man. Haven't you learnt that telling the truth will only get you into trouble - everybody wants to blame somebody else for their perceived problems - can't have individual responsibility now can we. That would be Un-Australian.
I can see why you aren't in politics, the incumbents wouldn't know what to make of you. Probably think you were some kind of alien or something. ;D
VMX42
you NathanS and Firko should get together and embark on a World tour visiting every City that the Occupy Wall street movement has spread to and talk to the whinging people.Just tell them that its not the Governments or big corporations fault its their own greed.I 'm sure that they will see your point of view and all go home.Obama ,Bernanke and Wall st Bankers will be very pleased that you solved that problem for them and everybody will live happily ever after. ::)
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not the Governments or big corporations fault its their own greed.
Wll sort of. The banks made the credit available to the people and they took it.
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not the Governments or big corporations fault its their own greed.
Wll sort of. The banks made the credit available to the people and they took it.
The government relaxd the criteria for people seeking loans so that the banks had less reason to refuse them and when the crunch came the Government bailed out the Banks with the peoples money leaving then with a huge debt to pay back.Nobody gave any bailout or tarp money to small business or individual people who lost everything.
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Yes. I had this experience a few years ago (1994), needed a bigger house. Worked out I could afford 160,000, went to the bank for a pre approved loan and they came back with 360,000! More than twice I knew I could afford.
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Yes. I had this experience a few years ago (1994), needed a bigger house. Worked out I could afford 160,000, went to the bank for a pre approved loan and they came back with 360,000! More than twice I knew I could afford.
They offered you more money because the more that they loan you the more money they make off you.So where is the greed coming from? They do the same with Countries that are stupid enough to get sucked into debt ........
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Precisely. And, having taken the 160,000, I was naive enough to wonder where people whom I knew I out-earned got the money for the new cars, the boat, the bikes, the overseas holidays etc..
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So, who thinks Senator John Button got it right?
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The skills market has gone where the money is. Always has, always will.
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The Hawke/Keating era aim for "the clever country" is widely misrepresented nowdays, BTW. It was about the country having the intellectual skills in place rather than just relying on selling resources. It wasn't about devaluing trades, or forgetting that we need people to build house
Is that why they closed trade wings at school and then abolished the "Tech" School all together.Oh I see the logic in that.drrrrrrrrrrr
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Is that why they closed trade wings at school and then abolished the "Tech" School all together.Oh I see the logic in that.drrrrrrrrrrr
I went to one of them Tech Colleges to learn me trade.
Wondered what happened to them.
Still we have a wonderful replacement in our Tafe schools.
Did you know that everyone passes at our local Tafe ?
Impossible to fail a course .
Something to do with funding I'me told :o
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you NathanS and Firko should get together and embark on a World tour visiting every City that the Occupy Wall street movement has spread to and talk to the whinging people.Just tell them that its not the Governments or big corporations fault its their own greed.I 'm sure that they will see your point of view and all go home.Obama ,Bernanke and Wall st Bankers will be very pleased that you solved that problem for them and everybody will live happily ever after. ::)
Missing the point much?
The Yanks really are in a tough spot, but they don't seem to spend half as much time wringing their hands and telling everyone how tough it is...
We're arguably doing better than any other country, and certainly in the top few, but we forever carry on with the Chicken Little routine. I agree with the sentiment that we can't get complacent about our living standards, but the state of perpetual semi-hysteria is baffling.
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Missing the point much?
The Yanks really are in a tough spot, but they don't seem to spend half as much time wringing their hands and telling everyone how tough it is...
We're arguably doing better than any other country, and certainly in the top few, but we forever carry on with the Chicken Little routine. I agree with the sentiment that we can't get complacent about our living standards, but the state of perpetual semi-hysteria is baffling.
Missing the point much?
The heading of the topic is "the demise of manufacturing in Australia" The Yanks spend plenty of time talking about how forked they are .They are in a tough spot and unlike their recovery from the depression and WW2 they now have next to no manufacturing industry to work their wayout of the massive hole that they are in.No they didn't complain while they were living it up spending more than they earned on goods made off shore while their neighbours progressively lots their jobs.
If there is a state of perpetual hysteria it might be because more and more people are realising that we are headed down the exact same path. If it wasnt fo our resources and China's demands for them we would be in a very good state -all our eggs are in that basket.So our manufacturing sector doesn't matter does it??? :P
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Quote from: motomaniac on Today at 05:11:51 PM
you NathanS and Firko should get together and embark on a World tour visiting every City that the Occupy Wall street movement has spread to and talk to the whinging people.Just tell them that its not the Governments or big corporations fault its their own greed.I 'm sure that they will see your point of view and all go home.Obama ,Bernanke and Wall st Bankers will be very pleased that you solved that problem for them and everybody will live happily ever after.
Missing the point much?
Yep Motomaniac, you've totally missed my point too but as I said in my post, I'm way over getting into pissing contests with folks who only see the dark side, life's too good (and too short)to waste it on negativity. My Australia's looking pretty good from where I sit but if I was in America, Greece, Italy, the UK or Mexico I'd probably be a miserable whinger, and with good reason. Thankfully due to luck of birth and a return air ticket from when I lived overseas I'm not a resident of any of those poor countries so I'm pretty content with my life in my country.
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Quote from: motomaniac on Today at 05:11:51 PM
you NathanS and Firko should get together and embark on a World tour visiting every City that the Occupy Wall street movement has spread to and talk to the whinging people.Just tell them that its not the Governments or big corporations fault its their own greed.I 'm sure that they will see your point of view and all go home.Obama ,Bernanke and Wall st Bankers will be very pleased that you solved that problem for them and everybody will live happily ever after.
Missing the point much?
Yep Motomaniac, you've totally missed my point too but as I said in my post, I'm way over getting into pissing contests with folks who only see the dark side, life's too good (and too short)to waste it on negativity. My Australia's looking pretty good from where I sit but if I was in America, Greece, Italy, the UK or Mexico I'd probably be a miserable whinger, and with good reason. Thankfully due to luck of birth and a return air ticket from when I lived overseas I'm not a resident of any of those poor countries so I'm pretty content with my life in my country.
so you are not going on a world tour to tell everyone in the OWS movement that its no use whinging?
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I'm sorry moto but I really don't get your point ::). I'm not talking about anywhere else but Australia. Maybe there's a joke or something that I'm missing? Maybe it's because I'm sober? World Tour? WTF are you talking about ???
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I'm sorry moto but I really don't get your point ::). I'm not talking about anywhere else but Australia. Maybe there's a joke or something that I'm missing? Maybe it's because I'm sober? World Tour? WTF are you talking about ???
The world tour was my suggestion ,check my post that you qouted, you nathan s and vmx42 could visit the various cities around the world and tell all the people that are spreading the OWS movement to stop their protests,whinging etc because as you suggeted in your previous post -its not the Goverments or big corps its the greed of the 99% that is the problem.If you like just concentrate in OZ the movement has spread to Melbs and other cities I';m told.
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Damn, and I thought I could be obtuse and obscure...
Even having some beers since you first posted your cyrptic puzzle, hasn't helped me decipher WTF you're on about.
I'll repeat the main part of my point, as the two talking galahs that constitutes your inner monologue seem to have muddled your thinking:
In Australia, we'll whinge about how hard done by we are, even when things are at their economic best.
I sure you're desperate to have a whinge about how Gillard is out to ruin us and all that, but my point is that we were having the same whinge when things were going great and you had the PM you wanted.
The Occupy Movement has approximated 0.023782% of SFA to do with what I'm talking about.
Please wait until you're sober and on the correct medication before posting again. :)
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Damn, and I thought I could be obtuse and obscure...
Even having some beers since you first posted your cyrptic puzzle, hasn't helped me decipher WTF you're on about.
I'll repeat the main part of my point, as the two talking galahs that constitutes your inner monologue seem to have muddled your thinking:
In Australia, we'll whinge about how hard done by we are, even when things are at their economic best.
I sure you're desperate to have a whinge about how Gillard is out to ruin us and all that, but my point is that we were having the same whinge when things were going great and you had the PM you wanted.
The Occupy Movement has approximated 0.023782% of SFA to do with what I'm talking about.
Please wait until you're sober and on the correct medication before posting again. :)
Usual form from Nathan S , stooping low and taking shoots.You're the one having beers not me, you might alos do well to seek some medication.
My mention of OWS movement has everything to do with the following qouted from your friends earlier post.
"Blaming governments and big business might give us something to vent our angst upon but the bottom line is that we're all to blame and it's now way too late to very much to alter the course. Greed wins every time "
I think you and your mates should get a check for ADS ,when you dont remember what was said one or two posts ago everything would of course appear cryptic.
The ones who were having a whinge when Howard was PM were the ALP and their supportrers.Should I put up a few elction campaign TV ads to remind you ADS guys?
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WTF are you on about?
I can't even find where the "Blaming governments and big business..." quote came from.
Try harder. Who knows what might happen - you might even let go of your petty little grudge and start making some sense!
But I'm not holding my breath.
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I always thought it was 3/4s of 5/8s of S.F.A.But I digress.....Boys,boys,BOYS.Please allow me to remind you all of what Sgt.Shultz had to say."In times of war;Its not good to choose sides". On a more serious note , what was said about the great depresion and how we whinged when things were good,is just so true.The trouble with,better and more: Is that things can always be better and there can always be more.Where do we stop ? {I drink too} There is a lot to be said about being satisfied with what we have . Although some say that would be the end of progress.Sorry to ramble on,but please let me finish by saying,"this is a great topic .
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Wow, I went to bed hoping that Motomaniac had sorted out his poorly adjusted blinkers but it appears not. This is the reason I hate discussing this stuff, You can't debate anything with people who have made their minds up and use sections of others posts out of context to create argument to suit their own case.
As I said in an earlier post.....I'm way over getting into pissing contests with folks who only see the dark side, life's too good (and too short)to waste it on negativity. ::)
The sky didn't fall overnight so I'm off outside on to enjoy the wealth this country's given me. ;D
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Wow, what a post. One thing is for sure, there is some passion about this topic and rightly so.
We are certainly the lucky country and I agree we should appreciate what we have.
There is no doubt though that some bad decisions in the past and right now have and will damage what we are collectively lucky enough to have.
I'm not an economist so I don't understand why Free Trade is so desirable for a naturally wealthy country like ours. If we are lucky enough to be a country blessed with wealth and a high standard of living, shouldn't the priority be to protect that first, protect our manufacturing industries, protect our agricultural industries etc? Protect our way of life? Is that such a bad thing?
Even if I have to pay $5000 for my 1 x flat screen TV instead of buying 3 at $899 each with a free laptop thrown in or pay $500 for a proudly but solidly & locally built timber desk rather than $99 for a piece of imported compressed cardboard crap from Ikea, I'll throw out in 18 months! Maybe it is because I am not an economist that I am looking at this in a much too simplistic manner, but isn't it obvious! The numbers don't add up. If you have half a dozen manufacturing countries in the local pacific area, and Australia has an economy where we earn up to 10 times some of those other countries, if you drop the tariffs, to me it is obvious that and equalizing effect will kick in, draining our wealth and dragging us down, not the other countries up.
With regards to manufacturing, in my view an economy isn't healthy unless it has a certain percentage of the overall is dedicated to manufacturing. We spend a certain amount of our income on things, so the make up of the economy should in some way reflect the production of those things. Like most systems in life, there needs to be balance. Balance in the make up of the economy and balance in the government tinkering with that economy. A controlled and planned improvement, not a flat out, within one generation, flavour of the month, back flip on what had served the country so well for so long. Perhaps a little less cockiness & ambition to lead the world and a little more humility and nurturing of our people would serve our politicians well.
I had the misfortune or perhaps the fortune of being a casualty of the drop in tariffs during the 90s and within a space of 3 years saw 70% of my business move to China, in the end, loosing that business I had spent my youth building and my house. It is an experience I wouldn't wish on anyone but it did teach me what is truly important in life. I would go through the turmoil at work each day as I struggled to keep the business going but when I got home, my wife was there with a kiss, dinner was cooked and I had two healthy and happy kids, completely oblivious to what was happening, excited and happy to see me.
Just a comment on OH&S. While OH&S is definitely a priority and it is common sense it should be taken seriously, perhaps the extremism in this area is driven by people desperate to feel like they are making a contribution in an economy they are struggling to find their place in.
I know I'm dreaming but wouldn't it be great if our system of Government included an apolitical brains trust of a long term planning organisation which transcended short term politics and mapped out a long term vision for the country. One that managed the future fund, set targets for industry sectors which contributed to the health of the economy and protected our resources and way of life. One can only dream.
Time to go prepare my bike for Mr VMX!!
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I know I'm dreaming but wouldn't it be great if our system of Government included an apolitical brains trust of a long term planning organisation which transcended short term politics and mapped out a long term vision for the country. One that managed the future fund, set targets for industry sectors which contributed to the health of the economy and protected our resources and way of life. One can only dream.
This is a excellent point in both our countries the vision is only for the lenght of the political term 3-4 years just enought to get back into power ,other countries have 100-500- year plans . Both our countries need to set long term 50 plus year goals and force our will by vote to get those achieved. Set up the future our kids and their kids would need just like our forfathers did .
oh shit im dreaming again .
Time to get up and mow the lawns ;D
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.... wouldn't it be great if our system of Government included an apolitical brains trust of a long term planning organisation which transcended short term politics and mapped out a long term vision for the country. ....
Hell yes.
But its never going to happen because those long term visions are all about political ideologies, because it would make politicians largely redundant, and because it would be corrupted by interest groups.
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WTF are you on about?
I can't even find where the "Blaming governments and big business..." quote came from.
Try harder. Who knows what might happen - you might even let go of your petty little grudge and start making some sense!
But I'm not holding my breath.
Oh I thought that since you were posting so many comments that you must have been following the thread.FYI its reply #29 on page 2.
Maybe you should try harder . Your not doing too well in the research department ,you'll have to address that if your going to get all these whingers to listen to you.
What grudge would that be?
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Quote from: motomaniac on Today at 05:11:51 PM
Yep Motomaniac, you've totally missed my point too but as I said in my post, I'm way over getting into pissing contests with folks who only see the dark side, life's too good (and too short)to waste it on negativity. My Australia's looking pretty good from where I sit but if I was in America, Greece, Italy, the UK or Mexico I'd probably be a miserable whinger, and with good reason. Thankfully due to luck of birth and a return air ticket from when I lived overseas I'm not a resident of any of those poor countries so I'm pretty content with my life in my country.
The countries that you mentioned above mostly have no manufacruring sector left ,thats what this topic is about - Australia going the same way .I'm happy that you are content.
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So, you're bringing up stuff from over sixty posts ago? And then berating me for not remembering it?
OK, OK, your e-wang is much bigger than mine.
I'm so happy for you. :-*
FWIW, the search function doesn't help in this case - I did look: http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?action=search2
Your grudge? Your persistant, snide needling of me. I called you on it a few months ago and you denied it, but it stopped too... ::)
I'm always happy to debate stuff - including when I've gotten it wrong - but your little school girl routine of obviously whispering behind your hand is just weird and sad. If you want to disagree, then be a man and explain why you think I'm wrong, instead of these oddly worded riddles that you're such a big fan of.
Whatever is wrong in your life, isn't my fault.
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Now, back on topic...
Are you really claiming that Italy has (virtually) no manufacturing sector?
There's no doubt that manufacturing adds value to resources, but consumer demand will always want to push manufacturing to the place the least value is added (ie: the lowest labour, administrative, real-estate and energy costs).
This is part of what I was talking about when I said that we need to grow up in our attitude to globalisation - if we want more manufacturing to happen in Australia, then we need to accept MUCH lower wages (impossibly low, seeing as our real-estate costs are so high), and/or pay a lot more for stuff. Yeah, energy prices are a factor, but the difference the CO2 tax will make is minimal.
MarcFX's idea of niche products is valid, but its forever living in the margins compared to the big stuff like cars and tellys. Anytime a niche product gets popular enough to be economically viable on a large scale, it will be made for half the cost somewhere in SE Asia...
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MarcFX's idea of niche products is valid
Well, my idea too.
but its forever living in the margins compared to the big stuff like cars and tellys.
There's no point in getting involved in a pissing contest with the Asian economies. They do mass manufacturing much better than we can. Thing is: where are those cars and TV designed? Answer: it ain't Asia.
There's a LOT of money i niche products like airliners, power stations etc.
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The demise of manufacturing in Australia isn't wholly an Australian problem, most of the (previously) industrialised world is losing its manufacturing to China, India or wherever the items can be produced for a viable price. Detroit auto maufacturing would shut up shop tomorrow if it wasn't for US government subsidies and tax breaks. When Japanese cars are being made in China and much of the worlds electronics made either in China or Korea the plight of Vegemite manufacture going offshore seems a bit insignicent. This has been slowly happening for 50 years but we've all turned a blind eye because in the end we all love a bargain.
Blaming governments and big business might give us something to vent our angst upon but the bottom line is that we're all to blame and it's now way too late to very much to alter the course. Greed wins every time
Now where do I start.....Motomaniac, seeing that you seem to have been offended by a paragraph in my post back on page 2, let me try and break it down a little easier for you.
When I wrote 'Blaming governments and big business might give us something to vent our angst upon but the bottom line is that we're all to blame and it's now way too late to very much to alter the course. Greed wins every time', by 'all to blame' I mean government, big business and us citizens are to blame as a society in whole. The bottom line is that we all want to pay as little as possible for our commodities. That's the trade off.
To my way of thought the breadown in the manufacturing sector is based on big businesses quest for lower manufacturing costs, our need for a cheap commodity price and the government's blind eye on letting it go on without much intervention. It's been happening since after WW2, even back then we all complained about cheap post war Japanese imports putting businesses out of the market. One early example I can remember from the fifties was there being a stuffed toy/Teddy Bear factory at Mascot that was owned by friends of my parents that went down the tubes because they couldn't compete with low tarrif Japanese imports. That was fifty plus years ago but it's exactly the same today. Sure governments could have fixed the problem by raising tarrifs and subsidising and/or giving tax breaks to local industry but if that had happened would our mining industry be enjoying the huge profits from selling the ore that feeds the Chinese industries that sell it back to us in the form of those cheap Televisions and consumer gizmo's? Bit by bit this has been happening all over the industrialised western world but nothing much was done to stop it fifty years ago and nothings being done today because everyone's in it for the big buck.....Industry for its low manufacturing cost and high profit margin, government for it's growing tax income and us common folk and our need to have as many creature comforts and consumer gadgets for as little financial outlay as possible.
Do I like what is happening? Nosiree Bob I don't. However I can't see much changing in the next generation or the one after so I'll settle for what I've got and enjoy the riches in my life...a roof over my head, a couple of cars in the garage, a bunch of non essential to life toys and a standard of living citizens in other coutries can only dream about. ;) That's why I'm content.
Can things be improved? Shit yeah, for one example lets start with improving a health system that's done me no favours in recent times. Having said that, our health system for all of its problems is still a bunch better than many other coutries so I'm content to wait until my turn comes for my needed surgery.
I'm a bit over this negativity. Let's celebrate what's great about Australia instead of continually looking woodworms in the system. To quote the old proverb..... ...Stop and smell the roses. ;D
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It's all a (relatively) short term problem Mark. Emergent economies are prepared to work for what we consider peanuts but as the countries become wealthier their demand for "trinckets" increases too. Take Japan. The Japs are so over working stupid hours for life for a company that treats them like dirt. They want the big house, they are prepared to move companies now. How much longer will Japanese manufacturing be competitive?
When China has raised its game to the point where it loses its competitive edge where will manufacturing go then? Hint: it wont be Africa!
The wheel will turn.
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Interesting little thing in the paper today.
Apparently Germany is on the brink and the world will end [ as we know it ] by next Sunday if they all don't sort the Euro out.
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Interesting little thing in the paper today.
Apparently Germany is on the brink and the world will end [ as we know it ] by next Sunday if they all don't sort the Euro out.
Germany is far from on the brink but they would do much better to cut the rest of the EU loose and go it alone with the UK. The problem with the common currency is it required everyone to come up the performance of the Germans.
Next Sunday has no special meaning it will just mark another moment when the EU couldn't get its shit together. The end of the Euro was inevitable post Lehman.
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So, you're bringing up stuff from over sixty posts ago? And then berating me for not remembering it?
the post was from the previous evening for forksake
::)
what a waste of time
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Germany is far from on the brink but they would do much better to cut the rest of the EU loose and go it alone with the UK. The problem with the common currency is it required everyone to come up the performance of the Germans.
Next Sunday has no special meaning it will just mark another moment when the EU couldn't get its shit together. The end of the Euro was inevitable post Lehman.
Agreed .
heres a little of how the germans do what Nathan calls perpetual whinging.
Its reunification day 1990,the 20,000 marchers were upset with their governments handling of the reunification.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCwqQxVgTCU
The 3 whingers who are perpetually whinging about Australians discussing ( what they term whinging) current affairs on this forum take note.
Part 2 is worse.I am in there BTW.
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Agreed .
heres a little of how the germans do what Nathan calls perpetual whinging.
Its reunification day 1990,the 20,000 marchers were upset with their governments handling of the reunification.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCwqQxVgTCU
The 3 whingers who are perpetually whinging about Australians discussing ( what they term whinging) current affairs on this forum take note.
Part 2 is worse.I am in there BTW.
I'm happy for you for having a massive e-Wang.
But I'm sorry for you for whatever is wrong with your brain that makes you incoherent.
I genuinely have no idea what your point is there, beyond a(nother) feeble attempt at misrepresenting what I've said.
[/quote]
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Let it go Nathan. It just ain't worth the typing energy. ;D
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You are probably right Firko...
In the interests of being on the higer moral ground, I've let plenty of stuff go to the keeper - but it seems to empower our little friend. Presumably he thinks that this means I don't get it, or something...
So I'm taking a forum stand: "Come out and say what you mean or STFU".
If my gut feeling is correct, and he's got mental health and/or substance abuse issues, then one of his friends should send me a PM and let me know. Seriously, 'cause I've had enough of this shit.
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You guys crack me up with all your banter and insults and disagreemants on what is supposed to be a VMX website. I have been known to put in my 2 cents worth every now and then but, mostly I am content to sit on the sidelines and watch you all go for the jugular on anything you don,t agree with. I do recall a while back after I had recently joined this wonderfull website (no sarcasm intended) that there was and still is one particular serial blogger who would and still does put in one and two word immature and irrelavent comments on any subjecct that takes his fancy. After I chastised him for his actions he cursed me with hellfire and damnation and accused me of BLEEDING THE FORUM FOR INFORMATION !!!!!. there are some dead set freakin fruitcakes out there, and it makes you wonder what they would do if one day they could no longer access the internet.....apart from all that, this has been and still is a treasure trove of infomation for all us VMXers. Keep up the good work fellas ( and girls).
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You are probably right Firko...
In the interests of being on the higer moral ground, I've let plenty of stuff go to the keeper - but it seems to empower our little friend. Presumably he thinks that this means I don't get it, or something...
So I'm taking a forum stand: "Come out and say what you mean or STFU".
If my gut feeling is correct, and he's got mental health and/or substance abuse issues, then one of his friends should send me a PM and let me know. Seriously, 'cause I've had enough of this shit.
I dont have to take that kind of BS .Im not going too loose my cool like EvilRudy over your continual demeaning assumptions .
I dont think you can comprehend much of what anyone says on this forum ,everything has to be spelled out for you time and time again.
The point was that in comparison to Germany and most other countries Australians do bugger all "whinging" and are generally apathetic to what goes on in politics.
TMBill in his post got it right but you wouldn't understand what he was pointing out.
Here is a PM that I got whilst away with the VIPER boys:-
Gooday mate, glad to see you finally realised that discussing something with Nathan is like chatting to a revolving door . Also he always has to have the last word no matter what . He also becomes very personal in his attacks......
Your point seems to be totally clear to everyone but Nathan. I left the forum for some time over this exact type of shit. It nearly happened again .
I have now basically tuned out to NathanS and to a lesser degree Firko (particularly on National or general interest issues).
Unfortunately Nathan has a tendancy think he is always on the 'moral high ground' because it is his opinion and it is naturally the correct one .
end
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So anyway nothing much was achieved on Sunday, Nick and Angie are not about to have a love child any time shortly and I think the Finns have come up with the best strategy so far, the Greeks offering a little collateral. See don't meet your IMF targets and the phone network plus an assortment of teenage daughters go back to Finland. In fact given their prospects for employment in Greece quite a lot would be happy in Finland.
So looks like Zorba and his mates aern't about to get a hand up from the Germans, charity begins at home as they say, or at least Deutcherbank. UBS could also do with a little bail out as well while they are at it. ;D
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I dont have to take that kind of BS .
And nor do I.
Stop the personal crap, and you won't have anything to take.
Simple enough for you?
The point was that in comparison to Germany and most other countries Australians do bugger all "whinging" and are generally apathetic to what goes on in politics.
Australians spend a lot of time whinging because we're apathetic - if things were actually bad, we'd get off the couch and away from the PC, and we'd actually do something.
Look at the anger about the Carbon tax - and then SFA people bothered to turn up to the protest because we don't really think it's going to matter that much...
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do any of you boys need some free concrete, free delivery on the weekend as you all need to harden the f--k up.
when will you boys learn to stay on the VMX subject as your opinions are all flawed, as I find it amusing as I dont think any of you guys are importers, manufacturers or even employers in this great country and I will stand corrected on delivery of the cement ;D
as my opinion will be differant than yours, I wont bother sharing ;)
worms
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The reason I object to politics being on this VMX forum is that it turns good people pretty damn ugly pretty damn quickly. It'd be great if it were truly democratic and if people could share differing opinion without name calling and belittling each other but it seems that some folks just can't help themselves. Why does it alway become so personal and vindictive just because someone has a different political view? I don't get it but in the end I couldn't care less who agrees with me or not, life's too short to really give a damn. I really hate all of this bitterness from both sides of the political slant so I'm avoiding politics from here on and will concentrate on stuff that belongs on the forum.....old bikes. I'm serious this time ;D
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I dont have to take that kind of BS .
And nor do I.
Stop the personal crap, and you won't have anything to take.
Simple enough for you?
It will not be easy because every comment I and often others make your somehow manage to take on as a personal attack.I haven't made any wild assumtions about your mental condition , soberness or substance abuse , incoherentness etc .I only pointed out that you dont remember,can't comprehend etc because ... well you couldn't.I actually dont know how you get on in life. And no theres nothing wrong with my life.If you continue to acusse forum members and Australians generally of being whingers(when you and your mates are the biggest whingers out there) when they are only sharing their person misfortune or views of it on this forum I will stand up for them.I will stand up for peoples right to express there views on this forum or anywhere without having to be continually accused of whinging or being somehow against Australia , especially when that was not what was actually said. I will listen and stand up for anyone who is genuinely concerned about this great country and its future and I will oppose any attempt to silence people from having open discussions ,especially from any partisan serf's like there are here on this forum.People who have been expressing their views on this forum about serious issues affecting this country recently are more Australian, love Australia more than you partisan serf's will ever be or know how.
I am sorry for Stan S and his predicament and for those like him and I'm sorry that after he felt moved enough to share with the forum this that he has probably recieved little comfort from all the bullshit and mostly from the accusations about whinging Australians.
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do any of you boys need some free concrete, free delivery on the weekend as you all need to harden the f--k up.
worms
No I don't need to harden the fork up for someone like NathanS who can only think to make up shit like the substance abuse ,drunkedness etc. I can take it no problem ,he is just showing his real self (intelligence) for all too see.The amazing thing is that after he continually makes a complete fool of himself he just keeps coming back for more and does it all over again.I'm just glad for his sake that all of this BS has happen at a distance though a forum.
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so I'll settle for what I've got and enjoy the riches in my life...a roof over my head, a couple of cars in the garage, a bunch of non essential to life toys and a standard of living citizens in other coutries can only dream about. ;) That's why I'm content.
[/quote]
Thats just dandy but the thread is not abouit your fortunes its about other peoples misfortunes. Why don't you get StanS's phone # and call his family with your suggestion to stop and smell the rose's?
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Motomaniac,
Go back and look at my posts in this thread, and tell me who made it personal? Who was singled out by who?
Yes, I've clamped down hard in response - it was a concious decision because you've done it plenty of times in the past and I want it to stop. That's all I've asked from you.
I've made this point several times now, but you seem to want to make it an internet chest-beating competition.
And that's gotta be a really dumb path for you to follow, 'cause the best you can hope for is to be better at the behaviour you hate from me...
While you're re-reading, try to justify how I'm a whinger, or trying to stifle debate or any of the rest of it. Feel free to quote me.
I'm just glad for his sake that all of this BS has happen at a distance though a forum.
1. Is that a threat? Be nice to clear that up.
2. It doesn't have to happen. You keep making it happen. Stop the snipes, and think warm happy thoughts and everything can be fine.
Your move, but I'll suggest taking it to PM would probably be welcomed by most of the rest of the forum.
Your three posts in a row, and the rapidly declining standards of spelling, sentence format and punctuation all suggest that taking a few very long deep breaths would be a good idea.
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Enough >:(
I could delete it all, but I'd better let Graeme M sort it in the am.....like he wants to deal with it ::) ::)
Lets get back too Manufacturing and getting our mates a job if need be. 8)
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Thanks Mod1. I think a few deep breaths from everyone would be a good idea. I'll let this thread continue to run for the moment as it may still have value but it's headed for the dumbgeon as it is. Get back on track please, without the angst. The next person who feels the need to keep the argument alive will cop a week's timeout, OK?
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Jobs for the boys , i came up with a great idea whislt driving around looking for cz parts yesterday if old mate who seems like an industrious type want's to start up a new buisness / new job,
here's the spool : everyone will carry them in their glove box and if you work out how many cars are on the road , they might cost $1 , wow do the sums trillonaire (private box for fellow vmxer's at the races and the footy. ) and if you get the insurance industry, police and motoring fraternity to support it to save them selves a lot of time and money and say " wow thats a good idea that will save a lot of time and money "
a stick on little piece of weather proof vynl with you details (as much as you want to put on them with permanent marker ) for those little accidents you have in cart parks etc , you dont have to wait around you just stick it on the damage , take a picture of it stuck on the damage or next to it to prevent the scammer saying you hit the car in 10 places and off you go on your busy life , no more s"sh*#t someone has just run into me i will waste my valuable time looking for witnesses , calling the police , calling the insurance company , then because its vynl if you don see it straight away it will stay there , wont wash off or blow away , make contact with the crash test dummy and walah, job done , they would be in every servo , cheap parts shop and even sell the idea to the car companies , when your rich sponsor me on some really cool expensive vmx's and i want to go to the big races os
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Well one thing going for Aussie manufacture is it is pretty fragmented across a number of industries and has had a good taste of survival of the fittest for a while. This was one of the strengths of Taiwan and Japan (domestically), they did OK during the Asian currency crisis melt down due to this.
I work in ships construction, the whole shipping industry is going down like the Titanic .... Lehman stimulus if anything made matters completely worse, the natural bankruptcies that should have happened didn't and added massively to the over capacity. For the good of the industry 1/2 the new ships in the docks should have been cut down for scrap like they did in 78-80. Dumb thing is the big companies are adding capacity, construction is 40% cheaper and they are wanting to be the last man standing with the capacity.
What does this have to do with Aussie, ship building is #3 consumer of steel after construction and automotive. Nippon Steel have been asked to reduce the price of steel plate by 30% by the Japanese Manufacturing Group or they will purchase offshore. I think we under estimate that the real recession is just kicking off.
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It's not just industry that is changing but employment as well. The ABC's 7.30 Report had an article on growing casual and contract employment had how it is driving down wages, conditions and job security. The article stated that 40% of Australian workers are effected.
There's an upside and a down side to it but the growing trend and the growing job insecurity is a worry that will have many and varied implications in the future.
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Motomaniac,
Go back and look at my posts in this thread, and tell me who made it personal? Who was singled out by who?
While you're re-reading, try to justify how I'm a whinger, or trying to stifle debate or any of the rest of it. Feel free to quote me.
no problem ,see below :-
"Damn, and I thought I could be obtuse and obscure...
Even having some beers since you first posted your cyrptic puzzle, hasn't helped me decipher WTF you're on about.
I'll repeat the main part of my point, as the two talking galahs that constitutes your inner monologue seem to have muddled your thinking:
In Australia, we'll whinge about how hard done by we are, even when things are at their economic best.
I sure you're desperate to have a whinge about how Gillard is out to ruin us and all that, but my point is that we were having the same whinge when things were going great and you had the PM you wanted.
The Occupy Movement has approximated 0.023782% of SFA to do with what I'm talking about.
Please wait until you're sober and on the correct medication before posting again."
The same old boring mantra happens to come from the same people time and time again.It doesn't matter if the topic is the GFC , our debt, mining tax,carbon tax ,Rudd and Gillard or the demise of manufacturing in Australia and everytime it styfle's the debate by accusing members of being whingers or anti/ungratefull Australians and then the personal attacks like you have shown yourself to be so good at come.People drop the subject,leave the forum or worse loose their cool and get banned.
I don't known how much time you have spent in America to come up with the "they dont whinge much",minimal at best and I don't know who people like you and your cohorts think you are telling Aussies that they are the worlds biggest whingers and that they must work much harder and for much less.You cAn take that to your next ALP regional meeting or your union rep, sounds like you have reconsidered work choices to me.
My experience overseas and with overseas visitors and newcomers is pretty much like TMBILL said but I would add that everywhere that I have been Aussies have a reputation as good honest hardworkers and are welcomed.The Aussie spirit of having a go is still with us but like GMC and others have said we are getting reemed.How are we supposed to react? Ohhh I like that , its so good getting reemed in Australia,its the best country in the world!
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It's not just industry that is changing but employment as well. The ABC's 7.30 Report had an article on growing casual and contract employment had how it is driving down wages, conditions and job security. The article stated that 40% of Australian workers are effected.
There's an upside and a down side to it but the growing trend and the growing job insecurity is a worry that will have many and varied implications in the future.
Its been happening in the building industry for sometime. My friend from Yass we be well pleased , he says that we must all work harder for less .
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Thanks Mod1. I think a few deep breaths from everyone would be a good idea. I'll let this thread continue to run for the moment as it may still have value but it's headed for the dumbgeon as it is. Get back on track please, without the angst. The next person who feels the need to keep the argument alive will cop a week's timeout, OK?
Sounds great to me Graeme. :)
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There's an upside and a down side to it but the growing trend and the growing job insecurity is a worry that will have many and varied implications in the future.
Japan has that problem, it has about the same official unemployment as Aussie but 50% of workers are on temporary contract and treated like a total underclass, without the health and retirement benefits or salary of company workers. Thais a problem when the economy is run too much for the benefit of older workers and not enough thought is put into developing the next generation.
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Woops
http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/10872563/gillard-abolishes-tariffs-for-third-world/
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now I'm getting pissed off, will these same countries allow free trade on Australian made products or are we to be just flooded with more cheap imports, killing off maunfacturing as we know it!!!!!
this government has abolished junior wages in my Industry, why would I offer work to juniors now , after school or in holidays, as much as I want too," and pay senior wages".
just great, more kids on the street, instead of learning how to work. What industry next?
Time to wake up, How long has Gillard had this on her plate to make such a decision, or is it just another diverision of the new Tax for all.
Worms
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The basic idea of free-trade with third world countries is that it will reduce our aid bill, and possibly the number of asylum seekers.
No comment from me on how effective it will be, but that's the idea.
And it fits in with the broader free trade mantra (which is basically that of unfettered capitalism - although I do note that there's been a role reversal between [so-called] lefties and conservatives on this topic).
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they are not protecting the interest of Australian manufacturers first by this move, whether you agree or not!
there is no bigger picture, other than to change focus on poor government.
Worms
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I'm beginning to wonder if Labour is part of some world wide push for full-on socialism, not just communism at home, but we seem to be giving every thing our fore-fathers have work so hard for, away to any 2 bit country that we can find. If it's by tariff and trade agreements or allowing them to come here willy-nilly.
I got to say that my home country is alot to blame as well as they seem to let even more foreigners in the Oz does and we all know the shit that the UK is in.
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I'm beginning to wonder if Labour is part of some world wide push for full-on socialism ....
Free trade is pretty much the opposite of socialism.
In theory, if Labor still held any socialist ideals, they would be part of a worldwide push for socialism.
Be careful of reading American stuff that attempts to vilify socialism - remember that the authors are typically decrying so-called "Socialist" moves like regulating banks and universal healthcare, and lots of other stuff that we take for granted in our (relatively) socialist utopia...
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It's not just industry that is changing but employment as well. The ABC's 7.30 Report had an article on growing casual and contract employment had how it is driving down wages, conditions and job security. The article stated that 40% of Australian workers are effected.
I'll go look for that report :o..Rings very true big time for the Health industry.
We are going through our EBA at the moment at work.Its such a hard slog.The governement is going to get The Slap soon with Dementia our new epidemic arriving shortly.
Stilll plenty of mining jobs north though. :-\
cheers A
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I'm beginning to wonder if Labour is part of some world wide push for full-on socialism, not just communism at home, but we seem to be giving every thing our fore-fathers have work so hard for, away to any 2 bit country that we can find. If it's by tariff and trade agreements or allowing them to come here willy-nilly.
I got to say that my home country is alot to blame as well as they seem to let even more foreigners in the Oz does and we all know the shit that the UK is in.
Starting to look sus hey ;D
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Been lookin' suss foe a while now-even to the point that both parties (all parties everywhere) seem to have the same targets in mind.
Are we missing something?
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In theory, if Labor still held any socialist ideals, they would be part of a worldwide push for socialism.
nah I don't think Jules red roots are showing, she has no more socialist ideals than Red Helen who had NZ adopting UN treaties on anything and everything.
Aunty Helen slid into a very well paying number at the UN on getting slung out of office and I would say Gillard is priming the pump for a future gig with an NGO, maybe UNESCO or the UNCTAD given her sudden concern for the poor nations.... Mother Teresa she is not, she is not giving her housing allowance to starving Africans and there is nothing pure about it.
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Apparently several years ago Julia was a union organiser along with, one of Barry Humphries other alter ego's, Lance A Boyle at the A.C.U.#.T.
So anything is possible with her, at our expense of course, typical unionist's attitude ;) ;D
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In theory, if Labor still held any socialist ideals, they would be part of a worldwide push for socialism.
nah I don't think Jules red roots are showing, she has no more socialist ideals than Red Helen who had NZ adopting UN treaties on anything and everything.
You are onto something there, wether she gets a post disgraced PM gig at the UN or where ever she is just doing what she is told to do by the people who put her in the top job who in turn are being told what to do by those higher up.
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Motomaniac,
While you're re-reading, try to justify how I'm a whinger, or trying to stifle debate or any of the rest of it. Feel free to quote me.
no problem see below.
"Its a particularly Australian trait to always think that we're incredibly hard done by - we're forever whinging that we don't get paid enough, get taxed too much, work too hard, etc.
If we shut up and had a look at the rest of the world occasionally, we'd realise that we've got very little to complain about.
Hell, Howard's decline in the polls began just after he said that "the average Aussie has never been better off" - he was right, but we didn't want to hear it."
I have no idea how or why Graeme lets you get away with calling people substance abusers,drunk or mentally comparmised in various ways or why you how you can people collectively and individually to shut the fork up.I'll take my weeks suspension.AS far as you PM to me go's if you are so sensitive to my #80 post which was merely a suggestion for you 3 since you had just finished patting each other on the back for telling us all the shut up and stop whinging ,I thought it only natural and a good idea that you could pool your collective talents and move outside our little forum to take your success and self gratitude to even bigger and better explosive heights.Those whinging OWS bums was just such an obvious choice.
post #87 That also offended you was a question ,all you had to do was answer it.How offensive!!! Did someone say harden the fork up??
Go for it Graeme .I'm done with this child.
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Its a particularly Australian trait to always think that we're incredibly hard done by - we're forever whinging that we don't get paid enough, get taxed too much, work too hard, etc.
If we shut up and had a look at the rest of the world occasionally, we'd realise that we've got very little to complain about.
Hell, Howard's decline in the polls began just after he said that "the average Aussie has never been better off" - he was right, but we didn't want to hear it.
Nathan, you are a very brave man. Haven't you learnt that telling the truth will only get you into trouble - everybody wants to blame somebody else for their perceived problems - can't have individual responsibility now can we. That would be Un-Australian.
I can see why you aren't in politics, the incumbents wouldn't know what to make of you. Probably think you were some kind of alien or something. ;D
VMX42
Dear Motomaniac,
I have been casually watching this thread and it seems that my opinion has ruffled your feathers and because of that I am now one of the demonised "you 3". As for "patting each other on the back", you confused this with Firko and I simply agreeing with the premise that Aussies like a good whinge. Now it is obvious that this is something you passionately disagree with [as is your right], but conversely, I genuinely believe that we have become a nation of whingers who prefer to demand that others solve our problems for us [ie. Lack of personal responsibility].
Just take a look at what passes for political debate in this country. We should change our national anthem to ‘What About Me’. It is our lazy, whinging, self absorbed, narrow minded electorate that has allowed the political parties to treat us like fools for their own ends. For example, sure Gillard lied and her lie should count against her, but instead it is used as THE SOLE convincing reason that climate change is a fallacy. Now I am not trying to drag up a debate on climate change, I am only trying to point out that Gillards lie and the veracity of the climate change debate are TWO SEPARATE THINGS that shouldn’t be confused. But instead of treating them as separate – one as an indicator of an individuals character – and the other as a potential threat to human life on the planet – we have allowed ourselves to be manipulated by vested interests and narrow political agendas into ‘playing the [wo]man not the ball’. There is no room for a moral stance in any debate, it only comes down to Dollars and Cents and our ability to fund our lifestyles.
We are the most educated people ever to walk the face of the planet and yet we seem determined to chart our destiny based on a willingness to accept cynical political and corporate spin, cheap 3 world policy [Big New Tax] statements and cheap, petty personality contests that masquerade as substance. We need to stand up and accept that politicians don’t always have our best interests at heart, we need to call them out to give us real detail about their policies. We also need to stop being so easily distracted by rediculous claims and counter claims, none of which actually change the facts of a given issue. We need to take some responsibility and not simply bounce from one political party to the other simply because we can’t be bothered to take the time to look at what is good for the country and not just ourselves.
Our tendency towards apathy makes for a laid back country that is great to live in, but it also allows us to be taken advantage of by those who seek power for the wrong reasons. We currently seem to act more like sheep, than humans. Changing our minds at the drop of a hat and allowing ourselves to be played as fools. We have a great country, probably the best country in the world, if we want it to be that way for our grandkids I suggest we stand up, take some personal responsibility and ask what is best for all Australians and stop squealing like stuck pigs when things don’t go perfectly.
We complain about loss of aussie manufacturing, but we won’t ‘Buy Australian’. Two bob each way… as usual.
VMX42
*Please note I never named any individual, nor am I talking about any specific individual – my comments are generalisations [offensive and challenging as that is to some] – I don’t expect to be agreed with, I have never cared about that at all. But also note, that although some of the language might have been a bit strong, I have not stooped to personal attacks. Also, by using Gillard and climate change as an example please don’t assume you know my political leaning – I have voted for both the Libs and Labour [and probably the Libs more often] but I don’t vote for the party name, I vote for what I believe is in the best interests of ALL Australians. I have never had my vote bought, nor have I ever been swayed by shallow political enticements. But is is true I think Tony Abbott is an embarrassment to himself, his party and the country and that Julia has an enormous butt. :D
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We are the most educated people ever to walk the face of the planet .
Debateable , see link below ;D ;D ;D
Julia has an enormous butt.
VMX42
http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=21341.msg211481#msg211481
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That is probably your most incisive post yet Walter. I hope you are wrong…
I hope you don't mean that I have been programmed to think that Julia has a huge butt? But no programming can hide Mr Abbotts dubious personal traits.
...and thanks for noticing my politness. I hope Motomaniac approves.
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Dear Motomaniac,
I have been casually watching this thread and it seems that my opinion has ruffled your feathers and because of that I am now one of the demonised "you 3". As for "patting each other on the back", you confused this with Firko and I simply agreeing with the premise that Aussies like a good whinge. Now it is obvious that this is something you passionately disagree with [as is your right], but conversely, I genuinely believe that we have become a nation of whingers who prefer to demand that others solve our problems for us [ie. Lack of personal responsibility].
Just take a look at what passes for political debate in this country. We should change are national anthem to ‘What About Me’. It is our lazy, whinging, self absorbed, narrow minded electorate that has allowed the political parties to treat us like fools for their own ends. For example, sure Gillard lied and her lie should count against her, but instead it is used as THE SOLE convincing reason that climate change is a fallacy. Now I am not trying to drag up a debate on climate change, I am only trying to point out that Gillards lie and the veracity of the climate change debate are TWO SEPARATE THINGS that shouldn’t be confused. But instead of treating them as separate – one as an indicator of an individuals character – and the other as a potential threat to human life on the planet – we have allowed ourselves to be manipulated by vested interests and narrow political agendas into ‘playing the [wo]man not the ball’.
We are the most educated people ever to walk the face of the planet and yet we seem determined to chart our destiny based on a willingness to accept cynical political-corporate-media spin, cheap 3 world policy statements and cheap, petty personality contests that masquerade as substance. We need to stand up and accept that politicians don’t always have our best interests at heart, we need to call them out to give us real detail about their policies. We also need to stop being so easily distracted by claims and counter claims, neither of which actually change the facts of a given issue. We need to take some responsibility and not simply bounce from one political party to the other simply because we can’t be bothered to take the time to look at what is good for the country and not just ourselves.
Our tendency towards apathy makes for a laid back country that is great to live in, but it also allows us to be taken advantage of by those who seek power for the wrong reasons. We currently seem to act more like sheep, than humans. Changing our minds at the drop of a hat and allowing ourselves to be played as fools. We have a great country, probably the best country in the world, if we want it to be that way for our grandkids I suggest we stand up, take some personal responsibility and ask what is best for all Australians and stop squealing like stuck pigs when things don’t go perfectly.
We complain about loss of aussie manufacturing, but we won’t ‘Buy Australian’. Two bob each way… as usual.
VMX42
I think the world we leave our grandchildren is a world wide problem and not just an Australian problem. I think most of the faults of society you have listed are faults most of the world would attribute to their societies - it's all by degrees.
Undoubtedly Australia is the Lucky Country and probably remains such for a good while but our problems and solutions are inexorably linked to the rest of the world and their probs. Welcome to the Global Village and the Brave New World :-\.
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Dear Motomaniac,
I have been casually watching this thread and it seems that my opinion has ruffled your feathers and because of that I am now one of the demonised "you 3". As for "patting each other on the back", you confused this with Firko and I simply agreeing with the premise that Aussies like a good whinge. Now it is obvious that this is something you passionately disagree with [as is your right], but conversely, I genuinely believe that we have become a nation of whingers who prefer to demand that others solve our problems for us [ie. Lack of personal responsibility].
Just take a look at what passes for political debate in this country. We should change our national anthem to ‘What About Me’. It is our lazy, whinging, self absorbed, narrow minded electorate that has allowed the political parties to treat us like fools for their own ends. For example, sure Gillard lied and her lie should count against her, but instead it is used as THE SOLE convincing reason that climate change is a fallacy. Now I am not trying to drag up a debate on climate change, I am only trying to point out that Gillards lie and the veracity of the climate change debate are TWO SEPARATE THINGS that shouldn’t be confused. But instead of treating them as separate – one as an indicator of an individuals character – and the other as a potential threat to human life on the planet – we have allowed ourselves to be manipulated by vested interests and narrow political agendas into ‘playing the [wo]man not the ball’. There is no room for a moral stance in any debate, it only comes down to Dollars and Cents and our ability to fund our lifestyles.
We are the most educated people ever to walk the face of the planet and yet we seem determined to chart our destiny based on a willingness to accept cynical political and corporate spin, cheap 3 world policy [Big New Tax] statements and cheap, petty personality contests that masquerade as substance. We need to stand up and accept that politicians don’t always have our best interests at heart, we need to call them out to give us real detail about their policies. We also need to stop being so easily distracted by rediculous claims and counter claims, none of which actually change the facts of a given issue. We need to take some responsibility and not simply bounce from one political party to the other simply because we can’t be bothered to take the time to look at what is good for the country and not just ourselves.
Our tendency towards apathy makes for a laid back country that is great to live in, but it also allows us to be taken advantage of by those who seek power for the wrong reasons. We currently seem to act more like sheep, than humans. Changing our minds at the drop of a hat and allowing ourselves to be played as fools. We have a great country, probably the best country in the world, if we want it to be that way for our grandkids I suggest we stand up, take some personal responsibility and ask what is best for all Australians and stop squealing like stuck pigs when things don’t go perfectly.
We complain about loss of aussie manufacturing, but we won’t ‘Buy Australian’. Two bob each way… as usual.
VMX42
*Please note I never named any individual, nor am I talking about any specific individual – my comments are generalisations [offensive and challenging as that is to some] – I don’t expect to be agreed with, I have never cared about that at all. But also note, that although some of the language might have been a bit strong, I have not stooped to personal attacks. Also, by using Gillard and climate change as an example please don’t assume you know my political leaning – I have voted for both the Libs and Labour [and probably the Libs more often] but I don’t vote for the party name, I vote for what I believe is in the best interests of ALL Australians. I have never had my vote bought, nor have I ever been swayed by shallow political enticements. But is is true I think Tony Abbott is an embarrassment to himself, his party and the country and that Julia has an enormous butt. :D
[/quote]
so from allthis I take it that you 3 political mistro's message to our fellow VMXer who has started this thread is !
Firko:- dont whinge ,just stop to smell the rose's and I'm alright :)
2.Nathan :-Learn to shut the fork up and don't whinge
3.VMX42 stop squealing like a pig and take responsibility for yourself.
Or do you think that whether or not your summizing is correct it might not have been appropriate in the here and now?
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[quote author=vmx42 link=topic=15295.msg211841#msg211841 date=1319703320
I hope you don't mean that I have been programmed to think that Julia has a huge butt? But no programming can hide Mr Abbotts dubious personal traits.
[/quote]
"we have allowed ourselves to be manipulated by vested interests and narrow political agendas into ‘playing the [wo]man not the ball’."VMX42
I see what you mean.
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Just watching, reading, observing and maybe even learning a thing or two.
Keep it civil.
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That is probably your most incisive post yet Walter. I hope you are wrong…
I hope you don't mean that I have been programmed to think that Julia has a huge butt? But no programming can hide Mr Abbotts dubious personal traits.
...and thanks for noticing my politness. I hope Motomaniac approves.
Yes its appreciated but I agree with Wasp.And we are no where near educated like any Scandinavian country nor most of Central Europe , including some of the former Easten Block.
p.s. I should add that after reading through all the individual posts here seems to me that we are also a ways behind or friends across the Tasman.
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I reckon mod2 is you Walter, throwing in a smoky.
By the way, thanks for letting me know who mod1 is.
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Poker face.
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Stan S is also here .Best wishes to you Stan ,I hope you can get through with out too much suffering for you and the family.
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Been watchin the apprentice on TV, Its got F A to do with real apprenticeship. Any lets have Pauline Hanson for PM instaed of Gillard...
Brett
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We have to have an election up here in QLD by next March, after 20 years of Labor missmanagement people have had enough, I predict (and everybody else)the Qld Labor party will be about as stong as the NSW Labor party after the election.....the 20 year old LNP oposition party wont fear much better (there main re-election campaign for 20 years is basically we dont have to do anything as the Labor party will shoot itself in the foot and well romp it in....only problem is there still waiting after 20 years)....now for the seriously funny part....Bob Katters Australian Party (my neighbor is his QLD leader) will pick up so much slack (way more than Pauline Hansen's "One Nation" party) we will probably end up with a coalition government.....Bob Katter's party being the major stake holder....Beleive it or not....there'ill be armed guards at the border to stop all you southerners from sneaking up here again....argh the good old days....bring back Joh. ;)....it's gonna happen.
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Been watchin the apprentice on TV, Its got F A to do with real apprenticeship. Any lets have Pauline Hanson for PM instaed of Gillard...
Brett
We have 2 PM's, neither of whom was voted in, both are chicken shit.
we will probably end up with a coalition government.
See above, a waste of skin the 2 of them, neither party particularly popular and are leading the blind British public into another 12 months of recession. Of course they'll blame it on the previous government just as always ::) And when it's all over, they'll give it all back and say 'look what we've done for you' and get voted in for another term. Makes me blood boil, tossers...
Sorry for the hijack...
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Yeah Davey,
Joh got the job right even if he was a bit sus on the corruption.. Even Kennet would be better than our last couple of boso federal leaders. In all sincerity, it would be a hard, shit job. A good person as leader would either quit or turn bad...
Sorry bout the hi Jack, but politics are responsible for the demise of manufacturing in Oz,and its not just labours fault as it was way out of line even when howard was in.
Brett
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..... but politics are responsible for the demise of manufacturing in Oz............
Sorry, but not by commission nor omission are the pollies responsible.
Some detail maybe, but not in the big overall picture - it is the ebb and flow of economic life and changes in history and economic fortunes. I'm sorry but 1.2 billion people with brains and resources will always come to dominate human behaviour and existence. Anything else is an aberration.
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..... but politics are responsible for the demise of manufacturing in Oz............
Sorry, but not by commission nor omission are the pollies responsible.
http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/rp/1999-2000/2000rp07.htm
and
http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/[email protected]/Previousproducts/1301.0Feature%20Article382001?opendocument&tabname=Summary&prodno=1301.0&issue=2001&num=&view=
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Cheerfully in the upcoming NZ election Mana ( extreme left) has a better chance of being voted in than NZ Labour .... and hopefully NZ will come to its senses and go back to a 'first past the post' voting system that stops the travesty of forming coalitions of the unemployable with the lunatic fringe and Maori.
The Helen Clark years are a shameful chapter in NZ history that should be forgotten. With vice, cronyism, and general dishonesty at the top changing the way people thought about how they should behave ( honesty integrity) at the bottom. John Key is a great man and shown true leadership .... Labours MPs were the scum of society, who when they wearn't in jail or getting the boot ripping of their expenses, were bringing the country down to the lowest common denominator, which in NZ is much lower and comes with an out stretched brown hand.
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..... but politics are responsible for the demise of manufacturing in Oz............
Sorry, but not by commission nor omission are the pollies responsible.
http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/rp/1999-2000/2000rp07.htm
and
http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/[email protected]/Previousproducts/1301.0Feature%20Article382001?opendocument&tabname=Summary&prodno=1301.0&issue=2001&num=&view=
Some interesting references, stats, graphs and reading there. (Not quite sure if you are meaning to support or refute my position and assertions. :P)
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History has shown that it takes about 250 yrs for a society/country/culture to do the full circle from beginning in poverty or oppresion through to wealth or ease and back to anarchy again.
Check out where we all are in that time line. :)
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Its all good again now . Angy and Nick just saved us last night from the big collapse , with the stroke of a pen ::). The solution was so easy , why didnt I think of that ??? . I am off to see my bank manager today and get him to double my credit card limit , then all my problems will be solved too . How good is that 8)
It's 'all good', the pollies (and the market ::)) say so ::).
"The 50% debt write-off by banks means that Greece's debt burden could drop from 160% of GDP to 120% by 2020. :o"
(Which of course assumes Greek GNP goes up or stays the same :-[.)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15487269
I betcha the shareholders of the Banks thought it was great deal and a great victory taking a 50% haircut on a multibillion $$$$ debt :P - 'be comfortable, just lie back and think of betterment of the EU while I screw you' ::) .
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I betcha the shareholders of the Banks thought it was great deal and a great victory taking a 50% haircut on a multibillion $$$$ debt :P - 'be comfortable, just lie back and think of betterment of the EU while I screw you' ::) .
Except the Brits who cheerfully came very close to a vote on continued EU membership. Referendum was averted in last ditch save, of course the option is always available like the 'anti smacking bill' in NZ.... where you have a vote more than 90% of the voters reject the bill but the Government decides to ignore them anyway.
A bit like what Angela is doing with 80% of voters in Germany saying nein to further propping up of the Greek lifestyle but their elected officials are ignoring it for the good of ..... hmmm who does beneift from this endless bail out of the incompetents within the EU.
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meanwhile back in the bush
Raising the steaks
BRAD COOPER
28 Oct, 2011 04:00 AM
THEY'VE made mincemeat of the opposition in the past -and now the boys from Brisbane's Rode Meats have raised the steaks even further.
For the best part of a decade, the team from the Stafford Heights butcher shop in Brisbane's northern suburbs have walked away with silverware from the annual Australian Meat Industry Council (AMIC) awards.
Since the awards' inception nine years ago, they've won a phenomenal seven times, for best customer sevice, retail excellence and shop of the year.
This year, AMIC organisers upped the ante and combined all three awards into one, effectively challenging contenders to excel across a wider range of criteria.
Rode Meats owner, Brad Cammack, said this year's crown of 'shop of the year' was by far their best accolade.
"No doubt this was the biggest award for us to win," Mr Cammack said. "We proudly display all of our past awards in the shop but this one will definitely be going front and centre."
Mr Cammack said his team of 12 butchers took customer service and pride in their cuts seriously.
"Success in business always comes down to the quality of your product and your staff and the boys at Rode Meats serve customers because they want to, not because they have to.
"Customers enjoy the experience of buying from us," he said.
Mr Cammack, who started in the trade as a 15-year-old apprentice, still likes to operate his shop along traditional lines. While customers keep traffic brisk at the front, along the length of the shop's 13-metre, horseshoe shaped display cabinet, butchers will be working out the back, breaking down at least 12 beef carcases, 25 pig carcases and 100 lamb carcases every week.
"We're probably quite different to a lot of other butcher shops around town, but that's what sets us apart," Mr Cammack said.
ps lambs are at a high $187 live weight and ewe's sold yesterday at Jamestown for $246 some are definatly riding on the sheeps back ;D
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Sorry to continue to hijack Stans thread, but his SMH article from this morning kind of carries on from my previous rant that implied [OK it said] that we are being fed a line of BS by those who wish to control our votes from the pollies, the shock jocks, the spin doctors, the [mainly Murdoch] print media, Today Tonight and ACA etc, etc.
Angry citizens are much easier to control than those that are calm and considered. And doesn't the gov, shock jocks et al, love to solve our problems for us.
Wouldn't it be good if Aussies looked at the real issues and made up their own minds instead of being led by these knobs.
Love to hear your comments...
They're spending money, Jim, but not as we know it
October 28, 2011
Without budgeting for it, Australians have been busily finding new ways to spend money and then complaining that the cost of living is getting away from them. How about blowing more than half a billion dollars a year on bottled water? A personal trainer, anyone? A barista on every corner and a corner for every barista. You don't have the iPad yet? I mean the latest iPad, of course.
Then there's international travel – previously a lifetime's aspiration, now an annual necessity, as unexceptional as the seaside camping ground of an earlier time. Heavens, not just travel but a whole "gap" year is normal. And we want to tell everyone about it all the time so we're buying more than one million mobile phones a month, most of them smart phones with which many of us will get into trouble managing data and call plans and end up paying a couple of grand a year to a telco.
Tell me about your runners, or joggers, or Xtrainers, or all three. Where Volley OCs were the all-encompassing top-of-the-line sandshoe, we now have chains of specialist stores devoted to annually refreshed lines of genetically engineered thong variants with hundred-dollar-plus price tags. Or two-hundred-dollar-plus. Even running "bare foot" has become expensive. And don't forget to buy and wear Skins when exercising and down a sports supplement drink upon returning.
When we're done paying someone to encourage us to sweat, nearly a third of us sit watching Foxtel or Austar at home at an average cost of $100 or more a month - $1200 after-tax dollars a year to watch the rugby. Just as well we have the time to enjoy it since we started paying someone else to mow the lawn.
Cripes, we don't even do inexpensive bars of soap much anymore to wash the sweat off – it's plungers of liquid soap with extra kryptonite-reduction enzymes. It's no better than the old Sunlight or Cashmere Bouquet, might even be worse, and it certainly costs more both to buy and environmentally thanks to the packaging and requiring more water.
At least we're slowly getting smarter about smoking, but the genuinely stupid are still spending $10 billion a year on cancer sticks. Yes, genuinely stupid – there's a strong correlation between smoking and lower IQ, lower educational attainment, lower income and a generally more miserable life, never mind that it's a shorter one. No, kiddies, smoking doesn't look cool, it's an indication that you're more likely to be an all-round loser.
Ditto gamblers. The astounding $180 billion or so we're on track to flutter this financial year – mainly on pokies - maintains Australians' title as the World's Biggest Mugs. By way of comparison, the Federal Government's individual and company income tax take in 2010-11 was only $8 billion more. That an allegedly significant number of people could be suckered into campaigning to ensure the title is in no way threatened probably merits an insanity award in its own right.
And then tabloid and not-so-tabloid media and politicians, both government and opposition, reinforce our prejudices by telling us again that the cost of living is through the roof, that we're doing it tough and no doubt need help from the government. In the meantime, we desperately need lower interest rates so we can afford to go shopping again to save a retail sector that's been placed on the endangered species list. Oh, that's right – the consumer is supposed to be on strike.
Reality perceptions
No, it all doesn't really add up. Our perception of reality is highly selective. We remember the sticker shock of our last electricity bill, but forget the average household's power bill is about the same as the average Foxtel contract. We're appalled by the cost of water and sewerage, but don't think how much cheaper (and more useful) it is than gym memberships. And we all forget our last pay rise or pension increase.
Which is one of the reasons we're fortunate to have the Australian Bureau of Statistics to occasionally give us an objective view of reality.
Some parts of retail and retail in some parts have been doing it hard, as empty shops attest. Department stores with reductions in profit do not. Families on the fringes or people who even briefly fall from the income wagon – illness, unemployment, family tragedy, divorce – quickly discover that poverty remains real enough in the lucky country. But for the vast majority of us, the cost of living and consumer strike headlines are myths.
The second bit first: As the Reserve Bank has been trying to remind us often enough, the consumer isn't on strike, he or she is just spending a little differently while returning to longer-term saving patterns. Deputy Governor Ric Battellino did it most recently on Tuesday: "After a 10–15 year period during which households increased their gearing and reduced their rate of saving, they have returned to a more conservative, and traditional, pattern of financial behaviour. Household credit growth has slowed to a rate in keeping with, or slightly below, the growth in household incomes; the saving rate has increased to a level that is more normal based on history and household spending growth has slowed from a rate that substantially exceeded household income growth, to one that, over the past year, has been broadly in line with income growth. Within total consumer spending, there appears to have been a shift away from spending on goods in stores to spending on services, particularly services such as overseas travel, eating out and entertainment. As a result, retail sales have been particularly weak."
Incomes are growing nicely and thus so is consumption, just sensibly within the bounds of the income growth unlike in the years of unsustainable credit growth before the GFC. For a variety of reasons, the stuff in some shops isn't competing as well as it used to with our many other temptations. Maybe the retail lobby would be better served campaigning against pokies instead of internet shoppers.
Living costs As for the cost of living, the detail in Wednesday's consumer price index figures explained some of our perception problems. Those utility bills have shocked us with the sharpness of their increases. Electricity, water and sewerage and property rates and charges costs, all lumped together in the "housing" category, were the big movers in the September quarter CPI. Electricity costs jumped 7.8 per cent, water and sewerage 8.6, property rates and charges 5.2 per cent.
There are some seasonal factors in the CPI business though: utility rises tend to occur more in the quarter that starts the financial year; there was no education cost rise to speak of because that hits at the start of the school year; pharmaceutical costs fell because of the pharmaceutical benefits scheme subsidy picks up more people as the calendar year rolls on, only to jump again in the March quarter.
Whatever the season, everyone knows and complains about rising utility charges. Well, nearly everyone. Origin Energy CEO Grant King instead offers the idea that the percentage of household income we spend on energy has actually been fairly constant at two to three per cent for the past quarter century.
That is the other thing we forget – that household incomes have been rising faster than the inflation rate. Therefore, on average, it shouldn't be the electricity bill that breaks the budget, but all the other stuff we spend money on.
And while we're complaining about the rising cost of living, we tend to overlook all the things that haven't been rising, or not rising much. Over the past three years, the all groups CPI has risen by 7.7 per cent, an average of about 2.8 per cent. The categories with the biggest increases have been alcohol and tobacco up 19 per cent thanks to higher taxes, followed by education up 18 per cent and that housing group ahead 15 per cent.
But at the same time, clothing and footwear didn't increase, transport and recreation and culture costs fell and communications increased by just one per cent.
It's swings and roundabouts, or perhaps shoes and school fees, in the cost of living game. Smoke and pay private school fees for a pile of kids who like airconditioning and leaving the TVs and computers on and you'll go backwards. Ditch the coffin nails, send the kids to state schools or, better yet, don't have kids and stay at home letting your parents pay for the power bills and you'll have no trouble living the good life. There are plenty of cost of living choices we make for ourselves.
But maybe even yuppies sometimes do it tough. I was saddened recently to see an up-market deli with a sign outside saying "TREAT YOURSELF" over that week's special - bottles of Fiji Water*. Luxury ain't what it used to be.
*and just as an aside, I still love Dr Karls breakdown of bottled water as being 1/3 petrol, 2/3 water. The concept being that each 1 litre bottle of water takes 1/3 of a litre of petrol to bring to the consumer. Out side of times of disease and disaster surely we should lobby the government to ban all bottled water for the good of the planet. Kitchen taps for all I say!!
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I betcha the shareholders of the Banks thought it was great deal and a great victory taking a 50% haircut on a multibillion $$$$ debt :P - 'be comfortable, just lie back and think of betterment of the EU while I screw you' ::) .
Except the Brits who cheerfully came very close to a vote on continued EU membership. Referendum was averted in last ditch save, of course the option is always available like the 'anti smacking bill' in NZ.... where you have a vote more than 90% of the voters reject the bill but the Government decides to ignore them anyway.
A bit like what Angela is doing with 80% of voters in Germany saying nein to further propping up of the Greek lifestyle but their elected officials are ignoring it for the good of ..... hmmm who does beneift from this endless bail out of the incompetents within the EU.
I won't pretend I fully understand the economics of it all but I'm pretty sure its a case of 'damned if you do and damned if you don't'.
The problem is we have already spent our future. But the real prob is they didn't spend wisely (on infrastructure and wealth creation). It's not just Greece and its not just Europe. The whole western world has done it to varying degrees. About the only exception has been the Australian Federal Liberal Govt (all other Oz govt's state and local are 'in hock to their eyebrows', and now suffering economic pain).
But Europe and the world have to go through a lot of economic pain. It is just how much and how to do it without going into an economic tailspin. That's where A&N (Germany and France) are now. Trying to give positive 'signals'. How and why The Market has apparently accepted I don't know. They have told the banks to take a multibillion euro haircut and 'you'll have to recapitalise to the tune of 100billion euro in the next 12 months (or we'll have to do it for you ::)) and blithely admitting they'll need more than a trillion euro to deal with the problem while arguing about a 100billion euro ???.
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About the only exception has been the Australian Federal Liberal Govt (all other Oz govt's state and local are 'in hock to their eyebrows', and now suffering economic pain).
Yes Australia is much better off , but only thanks to the crown jewels being sold off cheap ( mining ) Without that things would totally different .
It's worth nothing in the ground.......... ;)
It's what you do with the wealth that is important. Our last minerals wealth boom (a.k.a. The Gold Rush) put the great into Great Britain (then they 'blew it' winning two world wars ::) and making the world safe for the Yanks and the ungrateful effing French ;) :P). Let's this time help them get started and then tax them more and more as they make Super Profit - a la Kevin Rudd ;) ;D.
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They're spending money, Jim, but not as we know it
October 28, 2011
....
Clearly a whinger who wants to stifle discussion!
Gittins?
Edit: Google reveals that its Michael Pascoe. Clearly a political maestro...
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They're spending money, Jim, but not as we know it
October 28, 2011
....
Clearly a whinger who wants to stifle discussion!
Gittins?
Edit: Google reveals that its Michael Pascoe. Clearly a political maestro...
See Nathan does have as sense of humour [to those who doubted it]. :D
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and blithely admitting they'll need more than a trillion euro to deal with the problem while arguing about a 100billion euro ???.
Its to cover the fact that the banks then used Greeces borrowings like an assett to leverage more capital so they could loan it out to other people who really needed it but couldn't pay it back (Aussie States ?) knowing full well that they would get their commissions for making the loans and would be covered by just passing the loss to their original investors if it all went ass up.
Don't assume that UBS or Deutcherbank taking a 50% hit may not effect your retirement fund or your next rate bill in Aussie. Depending on how much your local council and super fund has been playing in the bond market/
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Its all good again now . Angy and Nick just saved us last night from the big collapse , with the stroke of a pen ::). The solution was so easy , why didnt I think of that ??? . I am off to see my bank manager today and get him to double my credit card limit , then all my problems will be solved too . How good is that 8)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15487269
I betcha the shareholders of the Banks thought it was great deal and a great victory taking a 50% haircut on a multibillion $$$$ debt :P - 'be comfortable, just lie back and think of betterment of the EU while I screw you' ::) .
The write off is a fudging of the books , the debt is still there bigger than ever.Without the EU the banks wouldn't have the volume of tax payers to pay for the debt. The banks (IMF) loose nothing ,they just increased their holdings.If they really wanted to get the greeks to stop spending they wouldn't have made them buy submarines and other war machinery from the French and Germans as part of the first bailout deal.
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I spoke with a customer of mine last night re this and he is closely aligned to mining/hydrology at the moment travelling about Qld doing govt checks etc...
He mentioned that the 'fly-in fly-out' policy that the new mine owners are wanting is not for us , but rather to fly their own workers in from OS.
The two most vocal right now are an Indian company and a Chinese company that have in fact completely purchased the mines in question. We will only get some royalties from the coal. They want to set up international airports on site and the hick-up is that in effect we will be giving them a complete piece of OZ to have as their own-their own customs enclave to be precise. No Aussies will be allowed on these sites, esentially they will be foreign soil-in our own backyard. The thin edge of the wedge!!
This is how this Govt. has worked out how to be back in surplus by 2013-they are selling the farm to pay their debts. FFS.
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Obviously its none of my Buisness im not an Aussie and i dont live in Australia , but it EMLs information is correct you guys have to act now to stop this >:( Its happening here asians are buying up the dairy farms and the succsesion of limp dick governments we have support it. Along with there immigration policies bring a million dollars with you and you are welcome , you dont even have to have a minimal grasp of the English langauge ::) once they have arrived with there million dollars next step import the family who bring nothing but some prohibited Voodoo medcines and 20000,0000 cigarettes with them >:( of course they dont speak a word of English ::)but thats ok so the mug at customs says in his most official voice "you naughty little slope :-* next time we will issue you with a $200.00 fine " ::) In my experience Asians do generally have a good work ethic , but make no attempt to assimilate when they arrive .
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He mentioned that the 'fly-in fly-out' policy that the new mine owners are wanting is not for us , but rather to fly their own workers in from OS.
The two most vocal right now are an Indian company and a Chinese company that have in fact completely purchased the mines in question. We will only get some royalties from the coal.
Horrifying, you know you cannot even buy a postage stamp size piece of dirt in China as a foreigner. It will be a bit like on some mines with the Boriginals where they will guarantee the Aussies a few jobs and that makes it all OK.
I thought you had a Labour Government who was taking care of us Aussie workers. Man I always thought there was a case for strong labour unions, the BLF, WWF etc might have been a bunch of ratbags but you need that balance otherwise the Government does what it likes. Man like sooner or late people will rise up, try running a mine once the Transport Union shut your fuel off.
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'try running a mine once the transport union shut your fuel off'
No such problem mate, they will be flying everything they need in and out-we wont have a say in it.
I have no idea what labour did to the union side of things but they are forsaken in this deal. they are either complicit or under some other threat as they don't seem to have any teeth.
At Qantas meeting yesterday they voted to not support the workers then gave the CEO an extra 2mil FFS.
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I thought you had a Labour Government who was taking care of us Aussie workers.
nil-zip-zero..
3rd year Heavy Deisel Plant Mechanic...$15.67 hr.This is just above the Aust bench mark standard.
Waitor/Hospitallity/Bar Staff $22-$25 hr :-\
cheers A
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Interesting little thing in the paper today.
Apparently Germany is on the brink and the world will end [ as we know it ] by next Sunday if they all don't sort the Euro out.
Germany is far from on the brink but they would do much better to cut the rest of the EU loose and go it alone with the UK. The problem with the common currency is it required everyone to come up the performance of the Germans.
In today's paper
Germany, Pop- 82 mill , GDP- E2.4 trill , Debt- E1.9 trill
Italy , "" - 60 " , GDP- E1.54 trill , Debt- E1.84 trill :o
France , "" - 64 mill , GDP- E1.9 trill , Debt- E1.7 trill
Spain , "" - 45 mill , "" - E1.05 trill , Debt- E674 bill
Greece , "" - 11.2 mill , "" - E220 bill , Debt- E336 bill :o
Ireland , "" - 4.5 mill , "" - E150 bill , Debt - E171 bill :o
Portugal , "" - 10.6 mill , "" - E166 bill , Debt - E150 bill
All these country's are almost done.
EU asked China for a loan .
And on a different note . WHY is premium fuel 20c a liter dearer than regular??????????????
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I spoke with a customer of mine last night re this and he is closely aligned to mining/hydrology at the moment travelling about Qld doing govt checks etc...
He mentioned that the 'fly-in fly-out' policy that the new mine owners are wanting is not for us , but rather to fly their own workers in from OS.
The two most vocal right now are an Indian company and a Chinese company that have in fact completely purchased the mines in question. We will only get some royalties from the coal. They want to set up international airports on site and the hick-up is that in effect we will be giving them a complete piece of OZ to have as their own-their own customs enclave to be precise. No Aussies will be allowed on these sites, esentially they will be foreign soil-in our own backyard. The thin edge of the wedge!!
This is how this Govt. has worked out how to be back in surplus by 2013-they are selling the farm to pay their debts. FFS.
Don't mind my cynicism but you will need to name name and state some fact for me to believe this.
Sounds like the alarmist BS that the Rednecks and spin doctors 'put out there', particularly on the internet :P.
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[/quote]
Germany is far from on the brink but they would do much better to cut the rest of the EU loose and go it alone with the UK. The problem with the common currency is it required everyone to come up the performance of the Germans.
[/quote]
In today's paper
Germany, Pop- 82 mill , GDP- E2.4 trill , Debt- E1.9 trill
Italy , "" - 60 " , GDP- E1.54 trill , Debt- E1.84 trill :o
France , "" - 64 mill , GDP- E1.9 trill , Debt- E1.7 trill
Spain , "" - 45 mill , "" - E1.05 trill , Debt- E674 bill
Greece , "" - 11.2 mill , "" - E220 bill , Debt- E336 bill :o
Ireland , "" - 4.5 mill , "" - E150 bill , Debt - E171 bill :o
Portugal , "" - 10.6 mill , "" - E166 bill , Debt - E150 bill
All these country's are almost done.
EU asked China for a loan .
[/quote]
Hmmm , why are the French and Germans paying for Greece then? Seems like it should be everyman for himself and the end of the Euro experiment ( that didnt take long) .Interesting that none of the scandinavians are listed.
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WTF is going on at Qantas. >:( >:(
I thought the idea was to make money with the planes, not park the fekkers up. What is this f-ing country coming too. A CEO who on behalf of the board and shareholders effectively closes the door for business and gets a f#*king big pay rise. Someone in this must be on drugs. What about the effect on all of their customers, or do think that they won't loose any? Fekking idiots. :o
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WTF is going on at Qantas. >:( >:(
I thought the idea was to make money with the planes, not park the fekkers up. What is this f-ing country coming too. A CEO who on behalf of the board and shareholders effectively closes the door for business and gets a f#*king big pay rise. Someone in this must be on drugs. What about the effect on all of their customers, or do think that they won't loose any? Fekking idiots. :o
Two sides to every story.
The CEO runs Qantas NOT the unions.
The CEO's pay rise is a matter for the owners of the business, the shareholders.
In times past I worked as a subby for a meatworks and the unions tried this on with them.
The boss shut the factory down for maintenance for a month and sent them all home.
When the factory reopened all jobs were reappointed, except for the subbies of course .
We worked right through ;D
I,me off to work now.
My pay has been negotiated by ME and I am happy with it , if I ever get unhappy and we can't come to an agreement then I will walk ,no need to involve the customers.
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The shutting down/closing for maintenance/standing down of staff affects all parties; THE CEO, THE BOARD, THE SHAREHOLDERS, THE STAFF and don't forget THE CUSTOMERS. I imagine many unhappy Qantas staff have "walked" and there will probably be more.
That's what I thought they were trying to do; negotiate pay and conditions. :-\
I have a feeling there is a lot more to this one than what we have been told so far. We even have a senior Government Minister saying that he suspects Qantas of planning this course of action as a decision such as this one would not be made overnight. ???
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"EML" is exactly right in what he is saying about foreign companies buying up all our minerals in the ground and trying to bring in their own labour and yes they are mainly Indian and chinese. It is not alarmist BS and redneck spindocter rumour as" MX250" seems to think. It is real !!!,and how pray tell do I know all this, well thats easy ,I work as a fly in fly out mining construction worker in WA on a mine site at Cape preston which is 1 hours drive south of Karratha. The mine site and all the Iron Ore in the ground has been bought by the Chinese,the camp was built by the Chinese even the sand and cement used in the camp footpaths is from China . They wanted to have their own International Airport on site but were told by Australia no.....They have a large contingent of Chinese labour there already, mostly engineers and the like but they laso have quite a few labourers also , personally I can,t stand eating in the same Mess as them as their eating habits are what we would call disgusting ,chewing their food with their mouths open while engaging in conversation is one of them. ... Yes how could the Australian Goverment allow all of this to happen you may wonder,well John Howard that snivelling little wretch of a man who should have been given a blind fold and a last cigarette before he was deposed..wanted to fence the whole mine site off and let the chinese do as they pleased...!!!!! hard to believe isn,t it folks . But I can assure you it is all true, Just contact any Union spokesman such as the CFMEU or AMWU and they will fill you in..And make no mistake about that fat arsed ranga is tarred with the same brush. Do you lot honestly believe that any of those seat warming A-holes in Canberra give a flying F--K about the working class of Australia,if you do then you are deluded. None of them have ever done manual labour so why the hell would they care about us. As a wise man once said, "It,s not the people who should fear Governments but the governments who should fear the people.....
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Lyle 2212 I can concur with what you are saying re Cape Preston as I was employed as the camp maintenance manager going back to 2009. The camp was running at around 1200 in size back then. I left mostly because of safety concerns and liability issues. My Management were insistant that I accept the Buildings as they were completed so that they could comply with the requirements of their $50 million a year Camp management contract. Rational, law-abiding thinking seems to go out the window when it comes to money. There were two electrocutions in camp in my short time there as well as a multitude of violations of the Australian Building Code. I have sat in meetings with Citic Pacific Contracts Managers (Aussies) who even believed in the Citic Pacific cause. I was also told that with a project of this size in China it would be acceptable to kill 6 people over the duration of construction. This view was not shared by the Aussie CPM Contracts Managers. The Donga's were shipped in from China with all neccessary fitments attached. The electrical wiring was not up to standard and each Donga was re-wired at a cost of $8 000. Someone must have looked the other way when it came to complying with the plumbing code, fire code and emergency lighting/alarm requirements. Many of the appliances/fittings did not even last 6 mths and were going to the landfill regularly. I walked away totally disollusioned from a $145 000 a year job that my employer had chased me to take on after previously leaving the company and moving interstate.
Further to the notion of manners and ettiquette, we had to cut a piece of timber to cover over the sink tops at the drinks stations in the dry mess as our International friends were spitting in the sinks. Yuk! Australians are not perfect but we don't do that sh*t.
I don't mind if someone wants to brand me racist or regressive as I have seen it from both sides. I love my country, but we are losing it. I am weary of being dictated to by policy making Politicians whose behaviour is deplorable. They remind me of my very young wayward children before they had been taught right from wrong with suitable attached consequences. These people are self seeking and are not operating in the best interests of a sustainable Australia.
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It amazes me that there is so little outrage about this sort of sell-off. How dense/contemptible can the polies get? >:( To my mind the way to deal with people/countries is the same - treat them the way they treat you. Cant be fairer than that. If they dont like the way they get treated then they can reflect on their own rules/behaviour before complaining. Ettiquette should reflect the mores of the host country. Unfortunately Aussies believe that the world is fair and everyone plays by our ideals.......guess what, it ain't true.
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These people are self seeking and are not operating in the best interests of a sustainable Australia.
Thats Globalization for you, it has been good because everyone has made money of the deal but it comes at the price of corporations making global decisions and not being too bothered about local issue. I work for big multi national and our total direction and bonus system is based around moving operations to low cost countries, because our competition is.
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Are we really poor? Or are have we been conned into believing that we are badly off. Perhaps, contrary to the cries from the pollies and the vocal minorities we are better off than most.
SMH, Tuesday 1/11/2011
Australians the world's wealthiest
October 31, 2011
Despite the doom and gloom, there are reasons to be cheerful. As measured by median wealth levels, Australians are the wealthiest people in the world, says the Credit Suisse Global Wealth Report 2011, which measured the wealth of the world's 4.5 billion adults.
It found Australia's median wealth, the mid-point between the wealthiest adult and poorest, was $US222,000 ($213,800), the highest in the world.
Average wealth was $US397,000, the world's second-highest after Switzerland with $US540,000.
Advertisement: Story continues below
It is the median figure that is more meaningful because it says more about how a country's middle class is doing.
Wealth in Australia is more evenly distributed than in other countries, particularly compared to the US, which has median wealth of about $US53,000.
As Credit Suisse measured wealth in US dollars, the strength of the Aussie dollar has helped push Australia up the rankings.
But even after removing the currency affects, Australia's performance has been robust, particularly since 2000, the report says. The report also says Australian wealth is highly skewed towards real estate assets.
Now if this is true, perhaps we can afford to support local industries and actually turn things around. Or continue to buy overseas and complain about the continuing decline...
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Are we really poor? Or are have we been conned into believing that we are badly off. Perhaps, contrary to the cries from the pollies and the vocal minorities we are better off than most.
SMH, Tuesday 1/11/2011
Australians the world's wealthiest
October 31, 2011
Despite the doom and gloom, there are reasons to be cheerful. As measured by median wealth levels, Australians are the wealthiest people in the world, says the Credit Suisse Global Wealth Report 2011, which measured the wealth of the world's 4.5 billion adults.
It found Australia's median wealth, the mid-point between the wealthiest adult and poorest, was $US222,000 ($213,800), the highest in the world.
Average wealth was $US397,000, the world's second-highest after Switzerland with $US540,000.
Advertisement: Story continues below
It is the median figure that is more meaningful because it says more about how a country's middle class is doing.
Wealth in Australia is more evenly distributed than in other countries, particularly compared to the US, which has median wealth of about $US53,000.
As Credit Suisse measured wealth in US dollars, the strength of the Aussie dollar has helped push Australia up the rankings.
Now if this is true, perhaps we can afford to support local industries and actually turn things around. Or continue to buy overseas and complain about the continuing decline...
Wonder if the figures include your house.
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We all know that Interest rates rise when the economy booms. As we can see now they have not risen in quite a while. That is because although the Mining sector of the country is going hammer and tongs, not everybody is employed in the mining industry. Therefore we still have quite a high unemployment rate considering how well off we are all supposed to be according to world statistics blah blah blah... Those people who make the sacrifice of working away from their families in the Mining Industry in order to give their families a good lifestyle and secure a good retirement package will reap the benefits. ... Unfortunately not everyone has the skills or contacts to do so.
I have travelled and worked overseas in some 3rd world countries and I,ve seen what people have to do to survive there. That is why I never take my Country and lifestyle for granted. But it never ceases to amaze me the amount of people with whom I associate and work with who do..
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The specific reference to real estate prices suggests yes.
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Nathan there is a good reason why Real Estate prices are high and a strong economy is only part of it. The other reasons are a shortage of Housing, figures have been quoted in real estate magazines of a shortage of between 100,000 and 200,000 dwellings. And we currently have the highest Immmigration intake per capita in the world. And these Immmigrants coming into the country (not only the Boat people) all need some where to live. That is why there is no housing price bubble as some people like to spruik. The housing prices are based on the state of our nation.
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The mine site and all the Iron Ore in the ground has been bought by the Chinese,the camp was built by the Chinese even the sand and cement used in the camp footpaths is from China . .....They have a large contingent of Chinese labour there already, mostly engineers and the like but they laso have quite a few labourers also
In darkest Africa the natives are getting restless and are eager to rid themselves of the yoke of the white imperialist colonialist bastards. They stand ready to accept their new partners in the great socialist experiment where all shall profit from the riches of the land.
Somehow they think that the Chinese will be their partners and that jobs and riches shall flow and all shall be peace and light again in Africa as it was before the arrival of the white devils.
The Zambians learned the hard way of the Chinese way of business as described by Lyle and now wish that they did not have to do business with the Chinese.
<Apologies for hijack but it's a very pertinant example for South Africa at the moment where the unwashed think that the Chinese will solve all their problems>
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Are we really poor? Or are have we been conned into believing that we are badly off. Perhaps, contrary to the cries from the pollies and the vocal minorities we are better off than most.
SMH, Tuesday 1/11/2011
Australians the world's wealthiest
October 31, 2011
Despite the doom and gloom, there are reasons to be cheerful. As measured by median wealth levels, Australians are the wealthiest people in the world, says the Credit Suisse Global Wealth Report 2011, which measured the wealth of the world's 4.5 billion adults.
It found Australia's median wealth, the mid-point between the wealthiest adult and poorest, was $US222,000 ($213,800), the highest in the world.
Average wealth was $US397,000, the world's second-highest after Switzerland with $US540,000.
Advertisement: Story continues below
It is the median figure that is more meaningful because it says more about how a country's middle class is doing.
Wealth in Australia is more evenly distributed than in other countries, particularly compared to the US, which has median wealth of about $US53,000.
As Credit Suisse measured wealth in US dollars, the strength of the Aussie dollar has helped push Australia up the rankings.
Now if this is true, perhaps we can afford to support local industries and actually turn things around. Or continue to buy overseas and complain about the continuing decline...
Wonder if the figures include your house.
Also wonder how we can be both the highest for household debt and the second wealthiest.
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TooFastTim..there was a good program on discovery channel last week about the Chinese taking over Angola. A country ravaged by 30 years of civil war,now in peace time and trying desperatly to boost their Economy by selling mining leases to the chinese. The Chinese have now moved into the country "en mass" and are not only taking over the mining Industry but the whole show, setting up shops every where and selling anything and everything. And guess what ,how many locals do you think they have employed ..???!!! none.
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Moto,
You wealth is the difference between your debt and assets. So yes we can have both the highest wealth and highest debt.
But as you say, it is interesting to be at the top of both categories. Would be better to be at the top of the happiness and contentment category and lowest in envy, jealousy and selfishness [IMHO].
VMX42
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Lyle, the Zambians now look back (those who are old enough to) on British rule with great fondness.
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We all know that Interest rates rise when the economy booms.
Just In abc news
The Reserve Bank of Australia has cut interest rates for the first time since April 2009, offering borrowers a win on Melbourne Cup day.
The central bank eased the official cash rate by 25 basis points, down to 4.5 per cent.
In a statement, RBA governor Glenn Stevens said concerns about inflation and subdued domestic economic growth were behind the decision.
"With overall growth moderate, inflation now likely to be close to target and confidence subdued outside the resources sector, the Board concluded that a more neutral stance of monetary policy would now be consistent with achieving sustainable growth and 2 to 3 per cent inflation over time," Mr Stevens said.
Mr Stevens also suggested businesses and households may still be rattled by recent volatility on financial markets, despite the bailout deal sealed by European Union leaders last week.
"It is likely to be some time yet before concerns about the European situation can definitively be laid to rest and the effects of the recent turmoil on confidence may result in a period of precautionary behaviour by firms and households," he said.
Westpac was the first bank to pass on the full 25-basis point cut to borrowers.
Earlier, Assistant Treasurer Bill Shorten demanded that banks cut their rates in line with the central bank's decision.
"No question, pass it on in full," Mr Shorten told AM.
On Melbourne Cup day last year the RBA surprised investors with a 25-basis point rise in rates.
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Moto,
You wealth is the difference between your debt and assets. So yes we can have both the highest wealth and highest debt.
But as you say, it is interesting to be at the top of both categories. Would be better to be at the top of the happiness and contentment category and lowest in envy, jealousy and selfishness [IMHO].
VMX42
everyone nows that our realestate is over valued and that the bubble can burst anytime.If its included then it's all pie in the sky.
The Kingdom of Bhutan does just that,they calculate the national happiness level ,wealth and GDP don't matter but then they have strict controls on visitors /tourists let alone foreigners taking resources and jobs.
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We all know that Interest rates rise when the economy booms.
Just In abc news
The Reserve Bank of Australia has cut interest rates for the first time since April 2009, offering borrowers a win on Melbourne Cup day.
The central bank eased the official cash rate by 25 basis points, down to 4.5 per cent.
In a statement, RBA governor Glenn Stevens said concerns about inflation and subdued domestic economic growth were behind the decision.
"With overall growth moderate, inflation now likely to be close to target and confidence subdued outside the resources sector, the Board concluded that a more neutral stance of monetary policy would now be consistent with achieving sustainable growth and 2 to 3 per cent inflation over time," Mr Stevens said.
Mr Stevens also suggested businesses and households may still be rattled by recent volatility on financial markets, despite the bailout deal sealed by European Union leaders last week.
"It is likely to be some time yet before concerns about the European situation can definitively be laid to rest and the effects of the recent turmoil on confidence may result in a period of precautionary behaviour by firms and households," he said.
Westpac was the first bank to pass on the full 25-basis point cut to borrowers.
Earlier, Assistant Treasurer Bill Shorten demanded that banks cut their rates in line with the central bank's decision.
"No question, pass it on in full," Mr Shorten told AM.
On Melbourne Cup day last year the RBA surprised investors with a 25-basis point rise in rates.
Doesn't mean much.The RBA kept on raising the rate in 08 when the rest of the world was falling into recession,saying along with our PM and Treas that we had no problem then in an 8 week period around Aug/Sept they drastically reversed all the previous rate rise's and the Gov. started throwing money everywhere to try and stave off a recession ???
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Doesn't mean much.
It an extra set of decals on our bikes ;D :P
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Doesn't mean much.
It an extra set of decals on our bikes ;D :P
hehe ,I can see your point but I won't be saving anything ,I get less $ since I dont owe anyone and have savings in the bank.
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From the report on the other thread re; MrVMX and the report from BMCC Nudgee last weekend the National Happiness Level jumped 10 fold in just our little worlds alone :D :D :D
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From the report on the other thread re; MrVMX and the report from BMCC Nudgee last weekend the National Happiness Level jumped 10 fold in just our little worlds alone :D :D :D
http://www.nbntv.com.au/index.php/2011/10/30/mr-motocross-rides-again-in-the-hunter/
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No doubts Bill. But the brits will be a tea party in relation to the Chinese.
Tim i removed my post as i thought it had little to do with this topic ::) i am ashamed of what the British did in Africa but its probably best left :)
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Just pm'd you.
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I don't think cutting interest rates by 25 basis points is going to do sweet FA to the economy. No doubt the real reason is to take the pressure off the Aussie $$$ and try and help out manufacturers. I think the higher interest rates were the only sensible the Govt did in 2009 as it forced the economy to give some thought to deleveraging rather than consider itself flame proof.
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Yes Marc and the result of that deleveraging has been a higher AUD. What we have done in response to that now re-leverage ourselves as a country to someone else - the Chinese.
In my line of work (Manufacturing - non mining) since Kev07 we have seen a 75% decline in sales and a coresponding loss of our manufacturers and IP to other industries those being China, Taiwan, India and Vietnam - more power to them for be the benificiaries of our stupidity in electing morons to run the place at a time when we needed ability not popularity.
We now have generational debt that eventually someone is going to have to pay for and my kids will have to shoulder the burden of that for long after Im gone.
Until Australia stops digging stuff out of the ground and sending it to somewhere else to make it into goods we buy we will only ever fall further into ruin, only when we consider the mining industry as an anomoly on the countries profit and loss statement will be see the real depth of the trouble we are heading for.
Pay off your debt; put some cash aside - I dont think we have seen anything yet and the 25 basis points reduction today is just going to make Julia try and convince you all on how good she has control of her economy - dont believe a word of it.
Best I stop ranting now........
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Well said dave- ginger ninja and smiling assasin our pm should feck off
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Yes Marc and the result of that deleveraging has been a higher AUD. What we have done in response to that now re-leverage ourselves as a country to someone else - the Chinese.
Like most things economic it is always a crazy ass juggling act and you can never reallly tell how it is going to turn out. I agree with you that the stimulus package moved the debt from the private sector to the public one, but Australia was hell exposed at the time to a run on interest rates, or triggering an inflationary spiral or both.
No doubt the effect on manufacturing of comparitively high interest in Australia has been catastrophic, in pumping the dollar, but then again Switzerland and Japan and anyone who still had a solvent currency have also shared the same fate with very low interest, so it may not be connected interest but rather risk aversion.
Nobody post Lehman could imagine that the sovereign nations would dip into the tax payers pockets as far as they did to underwrite the crazed risk taking of the financial institutions. If the banks had to cover their losses from their borrowers rather than take a hand out from the tax payer then the outcome could have been quite different. So i think in a country where private borrowing is huge there was no choice but to start the process of discouraging borrowing.
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Interesting post, it may not make anyone feel better but my business is a very positive example of manufacturing in Australia doing well.
About 6 years ago I spent some time in Japan and realised a large gap in the market, basically Aussie's were paying too much for the type of products yanks paid peanuts for. For the first few years I put everything I had into the business (worked a full time job alongside it) and barely raised a cent, 2.5 years later we employ 12 people, will turn over more than 5 million this year and by years end the business as well as myself should be 100% debt free - which includes assets worth well over a million.
While higher wages for staff and other business expenses make it hard on a global scale, our desperate need to often buy the cheapest at every cost (which is never the Australian option), I honestly think a lot of Australian's are just a bit too lazy and short sighted when it comes to running businesses. Manufacturing like everything can survive here, you just have to be very smart about it.
- Labour costs must be reduced. Efficient systems need to be introduced, effective machinery implemented where possible, and an analysing the competition - which mainly comes from overseas needs to be factored in.
In my business with the actual labour costs of manufacturing being reduced to around 3 -4% of business turnover – which has only been done by setting up very efficient systems, "cheap labour" advantages that our competition may have, whether they are in the U.S (where basic labour rates are almost 1/3rd of ours!) or China (where it is more like 1/10th) just aren’t much of a factor.
I appreciate for very labour intensive industries this variable can’t be reduced as much though, however in many industries, somethings can be done whether it be utilising certain imported components (which reduce some of the costs), however so many people in business (and specifically manufacturing) I speak to have no idea about this, it is as if there is only ever one way to do anything.
Debt seems to be another issue that many Australian’s are completely comfortable with, which in many cases is a major case of businesses failing. For some reason most potential business owners (who have barely done basic financial analyses to see if their dream is viable) feel the need to get the obligatory new car, pay themselves a handsome salary and absorb a huge amount of expenses which they can “claim on tax”, on their business which likely won’t make a profit for a few years. Yet people are surprised that so many businesses fail……
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if the labour cost (Marine Manufacturing)here is $40 an hour plus 45% being the real cost of the production hour HTF do you compete with the same process in another country at $1.72 an hour?
Take a look around; notice the down sized firms and the once active industry now vacant and for lease. Take a look at Bunnings, Super Cheap, BCF etc for anything that is made here; there is SFA. My grade 12 economisc is enough to tell me that in a few years we are screwed at this pace.
HTF Wayne Swan kept a straight face when he was handed the Treasure of the year award just confirms that the whole government is run by the blinding light of ego and bugger all else.
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Welcome to Globalisation and the GFC - its way bigger than Swanny.
What sort of workers are you paying $40/hour? Special skills?
What are you paying for (factory/office) floor space compared to anywhere else in the world?
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Interesting post, it may not make anyone feel better but my business is a very positive example of manufacturing in Australia doing well.
Debt seems to be another issue that many Australian’s are completely comfortable with, which in many cases is a major case of businesses failing.
Good on you Bio , good to hear of someone doing well.
My question is about the debt .
How does a manufacturer buy a late model CNC machine without going into debt?
I owned and ran a small metal fab/ manufacturing buissy and never had the guts to borrow large amounts to fund new equipment.
As the money became available I upgraded but it was a slow painful process and I never got the good efficient gear.
I was bought up in the " if you havn't the cash you can't afford it" era.
The upside to this is that I have no debts except the ones that government impose on me.
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HTF Wayne Swan kept a straight face when he was handed the Treasure of the year award just confirms that the whole government is run by the blinding light of ego and bugger all else.
[/quote
Getting used to that BS.Remember when Rudd was loosing approval rating fast they got Bill (fing) Clinton to say he was a .... I cant remember(Where's my medication?) ... some build him up BS.
They do it all the time ,Keating was another one and I suppose there was some on the otherside of politics as well.
I think Aussies are starting to wake up to being spoonfeed some BS propaganda or Statistics from overseas.We can see whats going on for ourselves.Can't we???
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Interesting post, it may not make anyone feel better but my business is a very positive example of manufacturing in Australia doing well.
Debt seems to be another issue that many Australian’s are completely comfortable with, which in many cases is a major case of businesses failing.
Good on you Bio , good to hear of someone doing well.
My question is about the debt .
How does a manufacturer buy a late model CNC machine without going into debt?
I owned and ran a small metal fab/ manufacturing buissy and never had the guts to borrow large amounts to fund new equipment.
As the money became available I upgraded but it was a slow painful process and I never got the good efficient gear.
I was bought up in the " if you havn't the cash you can't afford it" era.
The upside to this is that I have no debts except the ones that government impose on me.
The reality is that business runs on debt nowdays - the difference is whether its good debt or a bad debt...
If you're buying machinery that is going to make more money for the business, then that's a good debt.
Obviously its still a risk that needs to be carefully considered, but at least its pointing in the right direction.
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If you're buying machinery that is going to make more money for the business, then that's a good debt.
Obviously its still a risk that needs to be carefully considered, but at least its pointing in the right direction.
Just too scared to go the extra step I guess Nathan. :'(
BUT the gear I do have in my other shed would make most hobbiests cry ;D
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Manufacturing like everything can survive here, you just have to be very smart about it.
- Labour costs must be reduced. Efficient systems need to be introduced, effective machinery implemented where possible, and an analysing the competition - which mainly comes from overseas needs to be factored in.
In my business with the actual labour costs of manufacturing being reduced to around 3 -4% of business turnover –
I agree Bioflex, sounds like you are very smart about it and good for you man you just restored my faith in Aussie industry/ Actually the figure of 4% labour content is interesting, we have the same issues where it is just as cheap or cheaper for us to manufacture in Switzerland as China. As long as Australia chooses technology intensive niche industries, then the labor cost ceases to be an issue given that running a CNC production cell in any part of the world is comparatively the same price.
We actually find the cost of manufacture higher sometimes in China given the competition for raw complex raw materials, the availability of good sub suppliers like precision foundries and the general inefficiency of transport infra structure. As was discussed earlier rather than dig up titanium ore and export it, why not turn it into turbine blades and such components which have low labour component.
While we are about it how about some of the tax on BHP and their friends going to start up and higher technologies getting tax support.... like the Koreans and Chinese do.
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How does a manufacturer buy a late model CNC machine without going into debt?
I owned and ran a small metal fab/ manufacturing buissy and never had the guts to borrow large amounts to fund new equipment.
As the money became available I upgraded but it was a slow painful process and I never got the good efficient gear.
I was bought up in the " if you havn't the cash you can't afford it" era.
I’m hearing you Mike, I operate much the same way.
I don’t have a lot but I’m reasonably secure.
I was much the same on the race track, didn’t win much but didn’t crash a lot either.
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I'm with Mike and GMC. Keep you costs down and keep pushing forward.(sounds like being a good passenger)
The A1 Exhaust store in Mackay has closed as he couldn't find a way to pay for his 200K mandrel bender! WTF he needed it for is beyond me-I can buy mandrels for 4 or 5 bucks each and keep just as many as I might need.
My question here is "how much influence America has in our and other countries (UK) politics?'
Every time we turn around we are getting a visit from some Yanky ex pres or other big mouth.
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My question here is "how much influence America has in our and other countries (UK) politics?'
Every time we turn around we are getting a visit from some Yanky ex pres or other big mouth.
Not sure i would be taking too much economic advice for US Presidents at this point. The US economy is about 3 times the size of China's so they are the big one, so consequently what happens in the states can have a big influence on global demand and pricing for things like resources.... so US demand shrinks so the Chinese need cheaper raw materials to counter the drop in export revenues, as they are at the moment asking Rio and BHP to drop their ore prices.
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Thinking simplisticly; won't we be screwed once we run out of raw materials to export as our rate of production has dropped alarmingly over the last 20 or so years. Our only choice will be to pay the price that is being asked for imports or go without as we no longer have the facilities to manufacture much at all locally as most of it has gone offshore. I also have to ask why the f*#k are we bringing in meat and produce from other Countries? Bum licking by our Politicians I'm guessing.
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My question here is "how much influence America has in our and other countries (UK) politics?'
Every time we turn around we are getting a visit from some Yanky ex pres or other big mouth.
how long is a piece of string?Forget the stooges that they put up for voters to elect. They are controlled by their funders.Its no coincidence that we follow suit with almost everything a short while later.The visits are part of keeping everything going as planned.
The best one I heard recently was some yank banker saying how great it is that Aust. is going ahead with the CO2 tax and setting up a special bank just for the money will make it an easy job to transfer the money (to us) when the time comes.
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Thinking simplisticly; won't we be screwed once we run out of raw materials to export as our rate of production has dropped alarmingly over the last 20 or so years. Our only choice will be to pay the price that is being asked for imports or go without as we no longer have the facilities to manufacture much at all locally as most of it has gone offshore. I also have to ask why the f*#k are we bringing in meat and produce from other Countries? Bum licking by our Politicians I'm guessing.
pretty simple but too difficult for some.
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I think everyone gets it. The problem is that (collectively), we're too hooked on cheap crap - its like the junkie who knows he's wasting away because he's not eating properly, but is too obsessed with the next fix to worry.
But the sun is still shining for now:
http://hdrstats.undp.org/en/countries/profiles/AUS.html
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Yeah I remember back in 72 when we were all told to stay away from the Jap Crap and keep buying the Pommy shite-just think how many B40s we could pick from if we had of done as we were told.
I reckon the world went to shit when England joined the EEC and stopped buying dads creamy milk high in butter-fat. We had to sell all the loverly pedigree Jerseys and milk Fresian x mongrels.
DONT GET ME STARTED!!! It's not that long ago. :D
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The demise of manufacturing in Australia .........that's the bad news, now for the good news.......
"Despite the doom and gloom, there are reasons to be cheerful. As measured by median wealth levels, Australians are the wealthiest people in the world, says the Credit Suisse Global Wealth Report 2011, which measured the wealth of the world's 4.5 billion adults................" ;D 8) ;D
http://www.smh.com.au/executive-style/luxury/australians-the-worlds-wealthiest-20111101-1mt2r.html
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except when the property boom collapses and then we are zillionth in the table.
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I personally have no complaints as to my present situation BUT I do worry about the future of Australia and the caliber of our supposed leaders in all levels of government and business for that matter.
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The demise of manufacturing in Australia .........that's the bad news, now for the good news.......
"Despite the doom and gloom, there are reasons to be cheerful. As measured by median wealth levels, Australians are the wealthiest people in the world, says the Credit Suisse Global Wealth Report 2011, which measured the wealth of the world's 4.5 billion adults................" ;D 8) ;D
http://www.smh.com.au/executive-style/luxury/australians-the-worlds-wealthiest-20111101-1mt2r.html
Give me stability, security and hope for the future (for our kids) anyday. Wealth can't fix your health, relationships, shyte job or lack of fulfillment. I realise we do need to have a certain amount of available funds just to take care of everyday committments, but I think we are paying the price in many societies for being hedonistic and materialistic. Our Grandparents would turn over in their graves at what we consider essential nowadays.
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except when the property boom collapses and then we are zillionth in the table.
Our record high Aus $ would also be bumping up the stats .
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Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth.............. :P
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what we consider essential nowadays.
yep - Its a big wakeup call living in a vmx/mx trailer for two weeks and then getting home to a big "HOUSE" (3x1) so much area :o :-\
cheers A
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Brilliant!
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2011/s3355457.htm
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Give me stability, security and hope for the future (for our kids) anyday. Wealth can't fix your health, relationships, shyte job or lack of fulfillment. I realise we do need to have a certain amount of available funds just to take care of everyday committments, but I think we are paying the price in many societies for being hedonistic and materialistic. Our Grandparents would turn over in their graves at what we consider essential nowadays.
well said!!!
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Because no matter how crap Gillard is, Abbott keeps beating her in the race to the bottom:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/coalition-vows-to-claw-back-super-rises-20111103-1my1s.html
Where's that "banging your f#$king head against the f#$king wall because they're both so f$%king stupid" emoticon?
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Because no matter how crap Gillard is, Abbott keeps beating her in the race to the bottom:
Sad but true :'(.
It seems whatever Labour does or says, the Libs will have a knee jerk reaction to disagree and say the opposite regardless of it's merit ::).
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It seems whatever Labour does or says, the Libs will have a knee jerk reaction to disagree and say the opposite regardless of it's merit ::).
and then claim to be a party with a 'vision' for the future. :D
If Abbott keeps up his fascination with 'winding everything back' we could soon find Robert Menzies as our PM again. ;)
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You guy's are kidding yourselves, I have mo recolection of Labor agreeing with little Johnnie Howard.
That's what the oposition do, oppose.
Any way do you recall another government that got everything they did so wrong, ever.
They are a disgrace.
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where's Hitler- we could use someone like him right now-just to get everyones focus right.
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where's Hitler- we could use someone like him right now-just to get everyones focus right.
Don't encourage them - we have the loony left and the loony right we don't need to go any further into the cesspool ::).
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where's Hitler- we could use someone like him right now-just to get everyones focus right.
There are other ways to galvanise a nation other than fear.
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That's what the oposition do, oppose.
I strongly oppose to that , Opposition should keep the rivals honest but should still work together with them to the benefit of the nation . At the moment its a disgrace . Time for a good change worldwide . ;)
Spot on.
A real opposition would provide positive input to policy for the nation's benefit - either through negotiation (which would be particularly easy/effective in this minority government) or simply by providing obviously better policy.
She's not "getting everything wrong" - her biggest problem is her inability to counter Negative Tony's tactics, just at is was Rudd's.
It suits Abbott politically, but is doing the country no bloody good at all.
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I didn't say I think that's right.
We deserve much better from both sides.
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There are other ways to galvanise a nation other than fear.
But none are as simple or effective...
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crap, political parties will jump into bed with anyone to have power, the ball is in Labors court and not the oppositions, you tell people to stop whinging all the time, maybe you need to pass this on to the government.
worms
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Any way do you recall another government that got everything they did so wrong, ever.
No ,not in Australia.
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We don't need another hitler maniac in the world, what we need here is Keating in the House to show how its done. [And then go away] As much as I disliked the arrogant p**** he would make a laughing stock of the mad monk every time he opened his crazy non-productive cake-hole.
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where's Hitler- we could use someone like him right now-just to get everyones focus right.
There are other ways to galvanise a nation other than fear.
There is, it's called leadership. Leadership requires brains, integrity, honesty, altruism and moral fortitude - all qualities sadly missing in our pollies and probably in our society generally. What was it that old Abe said about governments and their people.........
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That's what the oposition do, oppose.
I strongly oppose to that , Opposition should keep the rivals honest but should still work together with them to the benefit of the nation . At the moment its a disgrace . Time for a good change worldwide . ;)
Spot on.
A real opposition would provide positive input to policy for the nation's benefit - either through negotiation (which would be particularly easy/effective in this minority government) or simply by providing obviously better policy.
She's not "getting everything wrong" - her biggest problem is her inability to counter Negative Tony's tactics, just at is was Rudd's.
It suits Abbott politically, but is doing the country no bloody good at all.
Strangely I have to agree.
My biggest problem with the Liberals is that NO is not an alternitive position. What they need to do, as you have said, is to provide a valid alternative to what Labour proposes, that is how good government is supposed to work. Unfortunately, in the majority of cases, the Liberals don't have a viable alternative policy and just say NO to what ever Labour puts forward. To me the biggest problem is the title "Opposition". Good government is for the elected politicians of all parties to work toghether for the betterment of the people.
While doing some management training many years ago, there was a long discussion during one session on what the best form of government was. In the end, it was agreed that the best form of government was not democratic, but a Benevolent Dictatorship, that is one person holds absolute power and governs for the benifit of ALL of the people.
Anyone want to support me in a small coup d'etat?
CJ
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Who are you putting forward as our leader CJ?
Perhaps we could a week each...
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Who are you putting forward as our leader CJ?
Perhaps we could a week each...
Myself of course!
I promise that I will be good, and nice to everyone. Even those who don't ride the same brand of motorcycles that I ride.
CJ
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Careful what we wish for team-Zimbabwe has a real leader and a shit load of diamonds too now-what more could they ask for?.....
When we had tough leaders-Bjelke Petterson and co.... we all hated them-they look pretty good now though eh? A bit like your grand parents-tough 'ol shits-but we loved 'em to death, and gone too soon.
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That is very magnanimous of you CJ. Or should we call you Fearless Leader...
When we had tough leaders-Bjelke Petterson and co.... we all hated them
You have got to live in QLD. The rest of the world saw Joh for what he really was. Good grief Charlie Brown!!!
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Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth.............. :P
What bloody gift horse would that be?
Are you referring to the high Aussie $?
If its only a good thing if you want to spend money overseas.
Theres a currency wars going on if you hadn't noticed,every country is trying to devalue its currency to help their export trade and to keep $ home. The AU $ is high because one we have a fairly stable economy but two because we have no policy or stratergy to lower it like everyone else has.
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What bloody gift horse would that be?
;)
When measured by median wealth levels we are seven times wealthy than the Americans I don't think it has much to do with the exchange rate ;). It's how we structure our society and spread the wealth.
The demise of manufacturing in Australia .........that's the bad news, now for the good news.......
"Despite the doom and gloom, there are reasons to be cheerful. As measured by median wealth levels, Australians are the wealthiest people in the world, says the Credit Suisse Global Wealth Report 2011, which measured the wealth of the world's 4.5 billion adults................" ;D 8) ;D
http://www.smh.com.au/executive-style/luxury/australians-the-worlds-wealthiest-20111101-1mt2r.html
If you want to use GDP per capita (in $US) choose your preferred data source.......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita
And if you want to talk quality of life Australia has 4 cities in the top ten world wide.
No none of that is to say we can't do better or that we should be satisfied with third class politicians, but lets count our chickens occasionally, it's not all doom and gloom :).
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Such are statistics, still not sure about the gift horse.We are a small population with a small percentage of indigenous peoples pretty much all accounted for, America is a large population which has as well as its indigenous peoples , large Hispanic, fairly large Chinese , some African American and many cuacasian Americans who live and survive independently from the mainstream economy -wholly or partially "under the radar" or call it the black market and therefore can't be easliy calculated statistically.
but yes I agree we are a much more egalitarian society , I stiil don't go with the statistic of our relative wealth.Our relative debt is much more believable.
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http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/mining-tax-has-exposed-abbott/story-e6frfhqf-1226186251139
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http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/mining-tax-has-exposed-abbott/story-e6frfhqf-1226186251139
"IT WAS an extraordinary complaint from Tony Abbott. "It's very difficult to have a sensible debate," he said, "when you are confronted with a feral Government".
Politicians don't come any more ferocious and brutal than Abbott. He reverted to the wild the moment he got his paws on the Liberal leadership.
His style is pure attack dog, as feral as you'd get. Everything, irrespective of merit, has to be opposed and torn to pieces. .........." :o
As much as I dislike Gilliard she is at least not brain dead like this idiot. Lord help us ::).
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I think we've found at least 2 of our " Rusted " on Labor voters.
I don't particularly like Tony Abbott, personally but, I do tend to lean toward the foundation Liberal philosophy.
Take off your red sunny's and have a real good look, Labor have PERSONALLY attacked Tony Abbott relentlesly since day dot.
I like to think that I stay objective, regardless.
Labor parachute Union loyal brothers into Labor safe seats regardless of their credentials and I'm not saying the Liberal's have never done it, BUT, it does seems to happen more often with Labor.
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Slidey, I was once rusted on, but am most certainly not anymore.
I can happily accept the broad Liberal philosphy, even though I do not support it.*
However, the Liberals under Abbott are a f#$king worry - its damn near impossible to find any independent commentator who will support him or his vacuous "policies".
Even the long term Liberal strong points (the economy, particularly) are beyond both his and Hockey's grasp.
At the simplest level, Abbott's response to the GFC would have plunged us into recession - which would have cost us many times more than Labor's response did... Yes, I can hear the cries now: That the stimulus didn't make a difference, etc etc - and that's all fair enough. But all of the independent experts agree: It was still cheaper and more effective than what Abbott proposed.
And the economy is supposed to be the Liberals' strongest suite?
I can go on about useless budget replies, and nonsensical policies like reducing greenhouse gas emissions because its all a myth and all the rest, but the real point is that Hockey and (particularly) Abbott are not a realistic choice of leader for this country.
We all know what "Hockeynomics" is, but nobody has coined the term "Swannomics", just as nobody ever talked of "Costellonomics"...
They're failing our country (including Liberal supporters) by not being a realistic alternative government. The Labor party has its own (many) failings which effectively lock it into the stupid, shitty position its currently in, but the Liberals seem intent in joining the race to the bottom.
Tell me that a 2010 Turnbull vs Gillard election wouldn't have been the biggest white-wash ever...
I know Abbott gets a lot of support because he sticks the political knife in - and this IS an important part of his job as opposition leader. But a big moronic thug that's beating the crap out of someone you don't like (ie: Gillard) is still a big moronic thug.
Sorry for the rant, but there's a growing mob mentality that's stifling sensible discussion. This doesn't mean that Gillard hasn't done anything wrong or anything of the sort - but we're back to the 5 second sound bite, and it's doing us no favours.
Final point: The Liberals have changed policy quite wildly since mid 2007. If you've supported them across all four leaders in that time, then surely you're rusted on?
*(Conversely, I am a strong supporter of traditional Labor values, but think the majority of their current policies vary between "popularist" and "pointless". Finding enthusiasm for their current policies is like picking through the rubble after an earthquake - there's the occasional small bit that's still good, but most of it has been turned to rubbish).
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How dare you, I can't be Rusted on, I take a daily fish oil capsule as a cure all for every ailment under the sun and it even keeps my coat shiny.
I totally respect your views and your insight Nathan, in other words you seem to take more than a passing interest in every day politics, I'll admit I don't but probably should.
Currently we are leaderless and that is a big concern.
Keep the bastsrds honest as Don Chipp said, our current bunch of numb skulls, do & say what MIGHT get them elected.
The sky aint falling in just yet, but if we continue with the I'm alright Jack attitude it won't take long.
Bring back Pig Iron Bob & the Silver Bodgie as a team. ;)
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I think we've found at least 2 of our " Rusted " on Labor voters.
How you have come to that conclusion from the above or anything else I've written, I've got no idea :-[. Sound like an unthinking indoctrinated political slogan intended as a slur ::).
I suggest strongly that you actually read the news article. The article is a well articulated and specified attack on a political 'junk yard dog'. If you can't read it and become alarmed at the nonsense that the Mad Monk utters in the name of the Liberal party then I can only assume you agree with him for reason that you enjoy Gutter Politics or you have the same lack of economic knowledge that the Mad Monk lacks.
I don't particularly like Tony Abbott, personally but, I do tend to lean toward the foundation Liberal philosophy.
The Mad Monks tactics have absolutely nothing to do with "Liberal philosophy" and everything to do with a personal power trip for the Mad Monk.
Take off your red sunny's and have a real good look, Labor have PERSONALLY attacked Tony Abbott relentlesly since day dot.
Red Herring.
Labor parachute Union loyal brothers into Labor safe seats regardless of their credentials and I'm not saying the Liberal's have never done it, BUT, it does seems to happen more often with Labor.
Red Herring.
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Such are statistics, still not sure about the gift horse.
I agree with the need to be caution around statistics. Stats are factually gathered but are not facts themselves. But stats are good to show trends and generalisation. But what I've offered is a number of different sources sliced and diced a number of different way and they all conclude Australia is in a good position as a society and an economy.
We are a small population with a small percentage of indigenous peoples pretty much all accounted for, America is a large population which has as well as its indigenous peoples , large Hispanic, fairly large Chinese , some African American and many cuacasian Americans who live and survive independently from the mainstream economy -wholly or partially "under the radar" or call it the black market and therefore can't be easliy calculated statistically.
All these peoples would be included in the population 'per capita' stats and I can't see how differences would change the numbers or conclusion.
but yes I agree we are a much more egalitarian society , I stiil don't go with the statistic of our relative wealth.Our relative debt is much more believable.
Yep, I have problem accepting the median stats as well. But there they are. If Australia is the wealthiest what are the other poor bastards putting up with :P.
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Back up the bus.
The rusted on bit was a friendly dig and I don't think I mentioned you did I Graeme, feeling guilty?
I'm not going hold a grudge against anyone because of their polical persuasion.
How boring would life be if everyone thought like me, actually if I could be prime minister, how good would that be?
I'd re-open the Syd Showground at it's spiritual home, I'd allow expansion of the Nepean complex, I'd force South's to merge with East's & play as the Roosters, I'd allow men to have more than 1 wife, I'd take Staffy's off the dangerous dog register, I'd stop Thorpie from making a comeback, I'd force feed Warnie, I'd ban big bore 2 strokes from Dirt Track and a heap of other shite but gee I'd have some fun doin it.
Please excuse my ramblings, I'm excited because I'm on a promise. :P
P.S. Stuff the showground, that place tried to kill me.
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I'd force South's to merge with East's & play as the Roosters,
You had my vote up 'til then >:(
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That one was just for you Firko.
I can send you some photo's Walter but it'll cost ya, if you search hard enough you can get em free on the net.
Sorry, gotta go, I'll be right there dear.
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staffy's are on the dangerous dog register ???, :P
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staffy's are on the dangerous dog register ???, :P
[/quote
Yeah thats how stupid the lawmakers and desk jockeys are in this country - all grew up in cupboards ::)
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staffy's are on the dangerous dog register ???, :P
A slight deviation here, but apparently some owners were not able to stop their dogs from attacking innocent members of the public. I realise not all dogs are bad and very few dog owners are stupid but I would not want to play russian roulette with the safety of small children out in public. The only dogs that end up on the register are breeds that have a past history of attacking people. By the way, I am not a dog hater.
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Iam also for strong dog control, and theres always the exception to the rule in any dog breed ,and theres also the grey area of cross breeding, but fairdinkum staffies as a general rule arent savage by nature ! easily on par with most dogs that arent on the list -if anything an inconsistent rule
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Todays news.
It appears that the super funds may NOT be able to pay out all my super in one go because they don't have the money. ::)
http://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/Retirees-face-freeze-super-yahoo7financewp-619336287.html?x=0
Oh joy.
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Mining tax is partly about ensuring that the government superannuation funds have enough cash to cover their expenses in the next decade or two.
So too Costello's "Future Fund".
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Todays news.
It appears that the super funds may NOT be able to pay out all my super in one go because they don't have the money. ::)
http://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/Retirees-face-freeze-super-yahoo7financewp-619336287.html?x=0
Oh joy.
It's no different than if we all walked into our local bank this afternoon and wanted to withdraw all our savings. The bank wouldn't [doesn't] have the cash reserves to accomodate us all. They would have to shut the doors... and then the value of their investments would be hammered by the markets who would smell blood and the house of cards would implode.
Having said that, the Super Funds have the info, so they need to plan for the future eventuality and have larger cash reserves to cover their exposure. I can't see what the problem is... that is what they are supposed to do. Simply contact their clients and ask their intentions and at what age they intend to cash up.
Now if their investment portfolio didn't cover potential withdrawls... that would be different matter altogether. Look up the Savings and Loans debarcle in the USA to see what I mean.
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http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/it-may-be-a-twospeed-economy-but-we-all-share-the-dividends-20111108-1n5b3.html