Author Topic: The demise of manufacturing in Australia  (Read 54717 times)

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Offline motomaniac

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Re: The demise of manufacturing in Australia
« Reply #90 on: October 21, 2011, 09:31:36 pm »
Quote
Quote from: motomaniac on Today at 05:11:51 PM
you NathanS and Firko should get together and embark on a World tour visiting every City that the Occupy Wall street movement has spread to and talk to the whinging people.Just tell them that its not the Governments or big corporations fault its their own greed.I 'm sure that they will see your point of view and all go home.Obama ,Bernanke and Wall st Bankers will be very pleased that you solved that problem for them and everybody will live happily ever after.

Missing the point much?
                                           
Yep Motomaniac, you've totally missed my point too but as I said in my post, I'm way over getting into pissing contests with folks who only see the dark side, life's too good (and too short)to waste it on negativity. My Australia's looking pretty good from where I sit but if I was in America, Greece, Italy, the UK or Mexico I'd probably be a miserable whinger, and with good reason. Thankfully due to luck of birth and a return air ticket from when I lived overseas I'm not a resident of any of those poor countries so I'm pretty content with my life in my country.

so you are not going on a world tour to tell everyone in the OWS movement that its no use whinging?

Offline firko

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Re: The demise of manufacturing in Australia
« Reply #91 on: October 21, 2011, 09:37:24 pm »
I'm sorry moto but I really don't get your point ::). I'm not talking about anywhere else but Australia. Maybe there's a joke or something that I'm missing? Maybe it's because I'm sober? World Tour? WTF are you talking about ???
 
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Offline motomaniac

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Re: The demise of manufacturing in Australia
« Reply #92 on: October 21, 2011, 09:52:14 pm »
I'm sorry moto but I really don't get your point ::). I'm not talking about anywhere else but Australia. Maybe there's a joke or something that I'm missing? Maybe it's because I'm sober? World Tour? WTF are you talking about ???
 

The world tour was my suggestion ,check my post that you qouted, you nathan s and vmx42 could visit the various cities around the world and tell all the people that are spreading the OWS movement to stop their protests,whinging etc because as you suggeted in your previous post -its not the Goverments or big corps   its the greed of the 99% that is the problem.If you like just concentrate in OZ the movement has spread to Melbs and other cities I';m told.

Offline Nathan S

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Re: The demise of manufacturing in Australia
« Reply #93 on: October 21, 2011, 11:00:00 pm »
Damn, and I thought I could be obtuse and obscure...

Even having some beers since you first posted your cyrptic puzzle, hasn't helped me decipher WTF you're on about.

I'll repeat the main part of my point, as the two talking galahs that constitutes your inner monologue seem to have muddled your thinking:

In Australia, we'll whinge about how hard done by we are, even when things are at their economic best.

I sure you're desperate to have a whinge about how Gillard is out to ruin us and all that, but my point is that we were having the same whinge when things were going great and you had the PM you wanted.

The Occupy Movement has approximated 0.023782% of SFA to do with what I'm talking about.

Please wait until you're sober and on the correct medication before posting again. :)



The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline motomaniac

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Re: The demise of manufacturing in Australia
« Reply #94 on: October 21, 2011, 11:58:13 pm »
Damn, and I thought I could be obtuse and obscure...

Even having some beers since you first posted your cyrptic puzzle, hasn't helped me decipher WTF you're on about.

I'll repeat the main part of my point, as the two talking galahs that constitutes your inner monologue seem to have muddled your thinking:

In Australia, we'll whinge about how hard done by we are, even when things are at their economic best.

I sure you're desperate to have a whinge about how Gillard is out to ruin us and all that, but my point is that we were having the same whinge when things were going great and you had the PM you wanted.

The Occupy Movement has approximated 0.023782% of SFA to do with what I'm talking about.

Please wait until you're sober and on the correct medication before posting again. :)


Usual form from Nathan S , stooping low and taking shoots.You're the one having beers not me, you might alos do well to seek some medication.


My mention of OWS movement has everything to do with the following qouted from your friends earlier post.
"Blaming governments and big business might give us something to vent our angst upon but the bottom line is that we're all to blame and it's now way too late to very much to alter the course. Greed wins every time "
I think you and your mates should get a check for ADS ,when you dont remember what was said one or two posts ago everything would of course appear cryptic.

The ones who were having a whinge when Howard was PM were the ALP and their supportrers.Should I put up a few elction campaign TV ads to remind you ADS guys?

Offline Nathan S

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Re: The demise of manufacturing in Australia
« Reply #95 on: October 22, 2011, 12:16:50 am »
WTF are you on about?

I can't even find where the "Blaming governments and big business..." quote came from.

Try harder. Who knows what might happen - you might even let go of your petty little grudge and start making some sense!
But I'm not holding my breath.

The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline paco

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Re: The demise of manufacturing in Australia
« Reply #96 on: October 22, 2011, 05:47:44 am »
I always thought it was 3/4s of 5/8s of S.F.A.But I digress.....Boys,boys,BOYS.Please allow me to remind you all of what Sgt.Shultz had to say."In times of war;Its not good to choose sides". On a more serious note , what was said about the great depresion and how we whinged when things were good,is just so true.The trouble with,better and more: Is that things can always be better and there can always be more.Where do we stop ? {I drink too} There is a lot to be said about being satisfied with what we have . Although some say that would be the end of progress.Sorry to ramble on,but please let me finish by saying,"this is a great topic .
what ! Who me ? Nah

Offline firko

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Re: The demise of manufacturing in Australia
« Reply #97 on: October 22, 2011, 07:02:14 am »
Wow, I went to bed hoping that Motomaniac had sorted out his  poorly adjusted blinkers but it appears not. This is the reason I hate discussing this stuff, You can't debate anything with people who have made their minds up and use sections of others posts out of context to create argument to suit their own case.
As I said in an earlier post.....I'm way over getting into pissing contests with folks who only see the dark side, life's too good (and too short)to waste it on negativity.  ::)
 
The sky didn't fall overnight so I'm off outside on to enjoy the wealth this country's given me. ;D

« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 07:08:55 am by firko »
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Offline Kenneth S (222)

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Re: The demise of manufacturing in Australia
« Reply #98 on: October 22, 2011, 07:03:39 am »
Wow, what a post. One thing is for sure, there is some passion about this topic and rightly so.

We are certainly the lucky country and I agree we should appreciate what we have.
There is no doubt though that some bad decisions in the past and right now have and will damage what we are collectively lucky enough to have.

I'm not an economist so I don't understand why Free Trade is so desirable for a naturally wealthy country like ours. If we are lucky enough to be a country blessed with wealth and a high standard of living, shouldn't the priority be to protect that first, protect our manufacturing industries, protect our agricultural industries etc? Protect our way of life? Is that such a bad thing?

Even if I have to pay $5000 for my 1 x flat screen TV instead of buying 3 at $899 each with a free laptop thrown in or pay $500 for a proudly but solidly & locally built timber desk rather than $99 for a piece of imported compressed cardboard crap from Ikea, I'll throw out in 18 months! Maybe it is because I am not an economist that I am looking at this in a much too simplistic manner, but isn't it obvious! The numbers don't add up. If you have half a dozen manufacturing countries in the local pacific area, and Australia has an economy where we earn up to 10 times some of those other countries, if you drop the tariffs, to me it is obvious that and equalizing effect will kick in, draining our wealth and dragging us down, not the other countries up.

With regards to manufacturing, in my view an economy isn't healthy unless it has a certain percentage of the overall is dedicated to manufacturing. We spend a certain amount of our income on things, so the make up of the economy should in some way reflect the production of those things. Like most systems in life, there needs to be balance. Balance in the make up of the economy and balance in the government tinkering with that economy. A controlled and planned improvement, not a flat out, within one generation, flavour of the month, back flip on what had served the country so well for so long. Perhaps a little less cockiness & ambition to lead the world and a little more humility and nurturing of our people would serve our politicians well.

I had the misfortune or perhaps the fortune of being a casualty of the drop in tariffs during the 90s and within a space of 3 years saw 70% of my business move to China, in the end, loosing that business I had spent my youth building and my house. It is an experience I wouldn't wish on anyone but it did teach me what is truly important in life. I would go through the turmoil at work each day as I struggled to keep the business going but when I got home, my wife was there with a kiss, dinner was cooked and I had two healthy and happy kids, completely oblivious to what was happening, excited and happy to see me.

Just a comment on OH&S. While OH&S is definitely a priority and it is common sense it should be taken seriously, perhaps the extremism in this area is driven by people desperate to feel like they are making a contribution in an economy they are struggling to find their place in.

I know I'm dreaming but wouldn't it be great if our system of Government included an apolitical brains trust of a long term planning organisation which transcended short term politics and mapped out a long term vision for the country. One that managed the future fund, set targets for industry sectors which contributed to the health of the economy and protected our resources and way of life. One can only dream.

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Offline asasin

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Re: The demise of manufacturing in Australia
« Reply #99 on: October 22, 2011, 07:49:46 am »
I know I'm dreaming but wouldn't it be great if our system of Government included an apolitical brains trust of a long term planning organisation which transcended short term politics and mapped out a long term vision for the country. One that managed the future fund, set targets for industry sectors which contributed to the health of the economy and protected our resources and way of life. One can only dream.

This is a excellent point in both our countries the vision is only for the lenght of the political term 3-4 years just enought to get back into power ,other countries have 100-500- year plans . Both our countries need to set long term 50 plus year goals and force our will by vote to get those achieved. Set up the future our kids and their kids would need just like our forfathers did .
 oh shit im dreaming again .
Time to get up and mow the lawns ;D
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Offline Nathan S

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Re: The demise of manufacturing in Australia
« Reply #100 on: October 22, 2011, 08:36:22 am »
.... wouldn't it be great if our system of Government included an apolitical brains trust of a long term planning organisation which transcended short term politics and mapped out a long term vision for the country. ....

Hell yes.

But its never going to happen because those long term visions are all about political ideologies, because it would make politicians largely redundant, and because it would be corrupted by interest groups.

The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline motomaniac

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Re: The demise of manufacturing in Australia
« Reply #101 on: October 22, 2011, 09:20:28 am »
WTF are you on about?

I can't even find where the "Blaming governments and big business..." quote came from.

Try harder. Who knows what might happen - you might even let go of your petty little grudge and start making some sense!
But I'm not holding my breath.



Oh I thought that since you were posting so many comments that you must have been following the thread.FYI its reply #29 on page 2.
Maybe you should try harder  . Your not doing too well in the research department ,you'll have to address that if your going to get all these whingers  to listen to you.
What grudge would that be?

Offline motomaniac

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Re: The demise of manufacturing in Australia
« Reply #102 on: October 22, 2011, 09:26:15 am »
Quote
Quote from: motomaniac on Today at 05:11:51 PM
                                           
Yep Motomaniac, you've totally missed my point too but as I said in my post, I'm way over getting into pissing contests with folks who only see the dark side, life's too good (and too short)to waste it on negativity. My Australia's looking pretty good from where I sit but if I was in America, Greece, Italy, the UK or Mexico I'd probably be a miserable whinger, and with good reason. Thankfully due to luck of birth and a return air ticket from when I lived overseas I'm not a resident of any of those poor countries so I'm pretty content with my life in my country.

The countries that you mentioned above mostly have no manufacruring sector left ,thats what this topic is about - Australia going the same way .I'm happy that you are content.

Offline Nathan S

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Re: The demise of manufacturing in Australia
« Reply #103 on: October 22, 2011, 10:18:15 am »
So, you're bringing up stuff from over sixty posts ago? And then berating me for not remembering it?

OK, OK, your e-wang is much bigger than mine.
I'm so happy for you.  :-*

FWIW, the search function doesn't help in this case - I did look: http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?action=search2

Your grudge? Your persistant, snide needling of me. I called you on it a few months ago and you denied it, but it stopped too...  ::)
I'm always happy to debate stuff - including when I've gotten it wrong - but your little school girl routine of obviously whispering behind your hand is just weird and sad. If you want to disagree, then be a man and explain why you think I'm wrong, instead of these oddly worded riddles that you're such a big fan of.

Whatever is wrong in your life, isn't my fault.

-------------------

Now, back on topic...

Are you really claiming that Italy has (virtually) no manufacturing sector?

There's no doubt that manufacturing adds value to resources, but consumer demand will always want to push manufacturing to the place the least value is added (ie: the lowest labour, administrative, real-estate and energy costs).
This is part of what I was talking about when I said that we need to grow up in our attitude to globalisation - if we want more manufacturing to happen in Australia, then we need to accept MUCH lower wages (impossibly low, seeing as our real-estate costs are so high), and/or pay a lot more for stuff. Yeah, energy prices are a factor, but the difference the CO2 tax will make is minimal.

MarcFX's idea of niche products is valid, but its forever living in the margins compared to the big stuff like cars and tellys. Anytime a niche product gets popular enough to be economically viable on a large scale, it will be made for half the cost somewhere in SE Asia...
The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

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Re: The demise of manufacturing in Australia
« Reply #104 on: October 22, 2011, 11:39:22 am »
MarcFX's idea of niche products is valid

Well, my idea too.

but its forever living in the margins compared to the big stuff like cars and tellys.

There's no point in getting involved in a pissing contest with the Asian economies. They do mass manufacturing much better than we can. Thing is: where are those cars and TV designed? Answer: it ain't Asia.

There's a LOT of money i niche products like airliners, power stations etc.