OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: FourstrokeForever on January 19, 2015, 07:52:16 pm
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Ok. This is nothing VMX related....Then again, maybe it is.
Tonight I was cooking some T-Bone steak on the Barbie and as is my want, I like a bit of vegemite and garlic spread on my steak. To my disgust, there is no Vegemite in our house. WTF I questioned the Mrs. Apparently, we now have Ozemite (doesn't taste the same) because Vegemite is now Halal manufactured. Since when did OUR NATIONAL CONDEMENT have to be Halal certified? What do I do put on my Breakie toast now? Grrrrrrrrr
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Maybe you should look at the positive: Kraft Mondelez is maximising the export market for Vegemite.
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The Halal market is big money. Quite what it means for vegemite I don't know - perhaps some of its ingredients fall into this list?
All foods are considered Halal except the following:
-Alcoholic drinks and intoxicants
-Non-Halal animal fat
-Enzymes (microbial enzymes are permissible)
-Gelatine from non-Halal source (fish gelatine is Halal)
-L-cysteine (if from human hair)
-Lard
-Lipase (only animal lipase need be avoided)
-Non-Halal animal shortening
-Pork products
-Unspecified meat broth
-Rennet (All forms should be avoided except for plant, microbial and synthetic rennet, as well as rennet obtained from Halal slaughtered animals)
-Stock (mixed species broth or meat stock)
-Tallow (non-Halal species)
-Carnivorous animals, birds of prey and certain other animals
-Foods contaminated with any of the above products
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There is absolutely nothing positive about Vegemite increasing it's market share on a global scale Nathan. It's not even made in Australia anymore and and "Kraft" product that was once manufactured here is no more. The sad thing is, I live 15k's from the birthplace of Vegemite and It's creator, Cyril McCalister and the place is nothing more than a dot on a map. Give me back my non Halal Vegemite please.
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-Alcoholic drinks and intoxicants
Vegemite is the left over from brewers yeast. ;D
And it's not gluten free.
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I think Dick Smith is about to make another customer...
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I've ditched Vegemite in favour of Dick Smith - its Ok, takes a jar but you get used to it. Vote with your purchase - same with Cadbury chocolate - check the label on that one too........
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If you are on Facebook, check this page out:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Boycott-Halal-Certification-in-Australia/693361674081960
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Bugger all this Halal Shite! I am absolutely sick of the whole thing. Lets see them respect our land and laws. Some do so many don't. The pricks flick their cigarette buts everywhere, they disrespect our beliefs... They think they are all tough guys!
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guys guys, its a huuuge scam with the "Halal certifiers" blackmailing major food producers for a large check..nothing at all to do with making the food ok for muslims..
its been suggested these funds go overseas to support non Australian activities......a recent press release by a major foodie in relation to Hall
al certification basically said "we are resisting an extortion racket"
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If it's any consolation, Domino's Pizza have arseholed halal due to the "Low consumer uptake for halal certified products". They have announced this with large red and black posters in their stores.
Good for them.
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If it's any consolation, Domino's Pizza have arseholed halal due to the "Low consumer uptake for halal certified products". They have announced this with large red and black posters in their stores.
Good for them.
And Eagle Boys never pursued the idea in the first place to increase their profits. Unlike Dominos who only changed their approach once they realised it was an unpopular decision with their Aussie customers. I bet it's a different story overseas in their remaining 10,000 stores:
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/dominos-pizza-opens-10000th-store-171529971.htmlHaha
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I do it the easy way - I see a halal sign and I walk away from whatever store/restaurant it is.
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I've ditched Vegemite in favour of Dick Smith - its Ok, takes a jar but you get used to it. Vote with your purchase - same with Cadbury chocolate - check the label on that one too........
I'm with you here. We buy Australian when and where we can.....apart from our once a month chinese feed. Yes, the other half informed me about cadburys as well. It's just not right. We don't make anything other than big friggin holes in the ground here anymore. Last time I checked, ya can't eat coal.....
Bugger all this Halal Shite! I am absolutely sick of the whole thing. Lets see them respect our land and laws. Some do so many don't. The pricks flick their cigarette buts everywhere, they disrespect our beliefs... They think they are all tough guys!
Yep, I see it all the time. I've seen obvious immigrants pull up beside the road to change the baby nappies and leave the crap where it lands. I've even seen 1 kid bein allowed to take a dump in the gutter of a city street, wipe his arse and leave the paper there too. No wonder I hate having to go into town. Oh, by the way, I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally.
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STREETS, Calippo ice blocks are manufactured in China and have been for a number of years, it's a real challenge to find and read the small print.
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I won't even buy a kebab, i would rather starve. I am sick of this crap, other religions are practiced in Australia aswell and don't try to tell us how to act or what we should eat etc.
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Buying Australian is harder and harder by the day.
I'm happy to pay more for Aussie made stuff, but I watch the options evaporate every time I go shopping.
I'd buy Aussie made Halal food over imported non-Halal stuff - there's no question in my mind which is more important.
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are the disgusted aware that the majority of aussie abbattoirs use the dhabihah (islamic law ritual slaughter) for animal killing. obviously
increases the market for their product. an indonesian muslim married into my wifes family back in the early 90's,he has worked as a
slaughterman for well over a decade. aussies have been enjoying halal rump/t-bone/etc for years ,possibly unaware. g
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are the disgusted aware that the majority of aussie abbattoirs use the dhabihah (islamic law ritual slaughter) for animal killing. obviously
increases the market for their product. an indonesian muslim married into my wifes family back in the early 90's,he has worked as a
slaughterman for well over a decade. aussies have been enjoying halal rump/t-bone/etc for years ,possibly unaware. g
I'm glad you brought it up. Yep, I'm totally aware of it. I worked in the Ararat abbattoir for a year producing "Halal" lamb. What a friggin joke. To be "Halal" certified, the only only conditions are: 1, each beast must be blessed by a practicing, certified Muslim. 2, He must face toward mecca when he slashes the throat of the beast. 3, an arrow (that is oddly shaped like a rocket) must face toward mecca for the slaughterer to know his bearings. 4, there must be a 15 minute "prayer" break every hour for the slaughterer.
Well, I couldn't take it when I witnessed the way this guy treated the animals. There was no prayer involved. He stabbed the beast wherever he wanted. Then on one particular nightshift he ordered (didn't ask) to to pick up the knife he dropped while I'm working my arse off to keep up with the breasting of the pelt on the chain. (Chain is slash the throat, head cut off, then the start of pelting....yep, it's fast). I told him to piss off and get it himself. 20 minutes later I was in the office doing the please explain. I was told that I need to look after him at any cost to my ego.
A few nights later, I "accidently" turned the warhead that was to face mecca back toward where the said beasts where coming from. Arsehole came at me with a knife shouting "I know it was you f#%king aussie pig". I did my best and walked away. That was my last shift.
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Phuck me you won't believe this but i just took the PJ Carby off my 1985 CR500RF and found a Bloody Halal certification mark on it.
Does this Mean i can run Halal in the Pre 85 Class ?
Hoon Out.
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Yes Fourstrokefever,
They need a break to pray every hour cause they are bludgers. Of cause- Its just fine for them to make derogatory comments about Aussies! Wake up Australia!
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Hoony wins.
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Its interesting that certain religions and beliefs do different things regarding blessing of food:
catholic pray before eating
budhist sometimes place food in front of the small family temple
Non religious sometimes spare a thought for others not so fortunate
All of these do not effect others, nor force their beliefs onto others and are done by the people eating it.
On the other hand Islam gets someone else to do the blessing (Lazy) and dont care whom ever else it effects or who it is forced on to...
I dont really have a problem with any race or religion, i just dont think is should be pushed to others in any form!
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Interesting comments FourStrokeForever. My understanding of Halal slaughter is that animals should be alive and conscious when slaughtered. In Australia, I thought it was required that an animal be stunned to unconsciousness before slaughter. To be Halal, a reversible stun should be applied, which means that in effect, the animal is sort of not unconscious when slaughtered. Some abattoirs have exemptions so that they can kill the animal first (or more exactly, cut its throat) and THEN apply the stun, which is more properly Halal.
The way you describe it, there's no stunning going on in your abattoir?
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just unbelievable stuff isn't it. I was on a plane to rocky last year and an old cocky was telling me about the 15 farmers who had topped themselves last year when the banks wound them up after the labor govt stopped live exports. The saying is "Money is the root of all evil" but guess what religion has collected the most of over the centuries. they do lots of good stuff but power and money are the main game...
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And yet if we allow live exports, them we doom a lot of the animals to completely inhumane deaths.
We should be adding value by slaughtering them here, which has the benefit of ensuing they are slaughtered humanely.
But no. This is Australia. We do to think like that. We'd prefer to ship the raw materials away and let someone else get all the value-add.
15 suicides as a direct result sounds like bullsh to me. We had a royal commission over 4 deaths - I can't see 15 suicides being ignored by the other side of politics and the media.
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15 suicides as a direct result sounds like bullsh to me. We had a royal commission over 4 deaths - I can't see 15 suicides being ignored by the other side of politics and the media.
Yes it dose I think twice that would be closer ...
Due to the drouth ( No rain ) No stock or worth nothing the value of farm goes down . Mr Banker say fram not worth what is was a few years a go and foreclose on the loan . even if the poor farm has not missed 1 payment ...
Bank send in a caretaker to run the farm down . Poor farm see the fram go to poo and more stock die ....
Bank waits for drout to brake and sell to some one with Big money ...
Black Dog comes to see Farmer ...
The media. dont care it dose not sell more papers .. No one wants to watch a story about a farmer ...
Dont get started on farming ... But lets say ..
you cant Eat Money
you cant eat Coal seam gas
you cant eat a computer
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The home insulation had very little to do with examining the causes of those 4 ( unfortunate) deaths. After coroners and at least 2 other inquiries that was very well known. It was a political move by Abbott to try and sheet some crap home to the Rudd government. The victims in that process were the public servants who did some pretty amazing hours/ days/ months to try and implement flawed policy and then got raked over the coals by an ignorant commissioner.
Rural suicide is a much deeper and significant issue. There is no bullshit in the stats. They are higher than what you could imagine.
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I keep looking for the "like ikon" for some of these replies. Oh, wrong website.
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I was pretty moved by the old Cocky, he clearly felt their pain but he was quite clear that the loss of export income was the main factor.
im sure we could value add by slaughtering here but refer the abattoir post and we would have to Halal add to the process!!
its such a poor situation we have been walked into by feel gooders and "multiculturists" I can only laugh.
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Interesting comments FourStrokeForever. My understanding of Halal slaughter is that animals should be alive and conscious when slaughtered. In Australia, I thought it was required that an animal be stunned to unconsciousness before slaughter. To be Halal, a reversible stun should be applied, which means that in effect, the animal is sort of not unconscious when slaughtered. Some abattoirs have exemptions so that they can kill the animal first (or more exactly, cut its throat) and THEN apply the stun, which is more properly Halal.
The way you describe it, there's no stunning going on in your abattoir?
That's right Graeme, the beasts were totally awake. The only stunning done was to get them up the race that led to the almighty Halal dude (not a word I usually use but I don't want to call him a man) so he could bless it and slash it's throat.
If more Australians were aware of what goes on in OUR own backyard in regard to slaughtering animals for Halal, they would be in tears and screaming blue murder.
I quit the abbs job before I ended up in jail by confronting Halal dude and throttling the life out of it.
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We should be adding value by slaughtering them here, which has the benefit of ensuing they are slaughtered humanely.
But no. This is Australia. We do to think like that. We'd prefer to ship the raw materials away and let someone else get all the value-add
My understanding is that the recipients strongly prefer to have this task performed on their own soil. They may also feel more secure about the slaughtering being performed exactly to their requirements.
15 suicides as a direct result sounds like bullsh to me.
No, it's probably not far off.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-02/suicide-rate-disgusts-rural-gp/5421896
Tex
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I believe one of the reasons that live cattle have to be exported is the lack of refrigeration in a lot of rural areas overseas. So keep it fresh on the hoof,and kill it locally, then sell on the spot.
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Seen that thing on our Coon cheese, looks like its the end for that cheese in our house.
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That's right Graeme, the beasts were totally awake. The only stunning done was to get them up the race that led to the almighty Halal dude (not a word I usually use but I don't want to call him a man) so he could bless it and slash it's throat.
If more Australians were aware of what goes on in OUR own backyard in regard to slaughtering animals for Halal, they would be in tears and screaming blue murder.
I quit the abbs job before I ended up in jail by confronting Halal dude and throttling the life out of it.
That's a shame to hear that, but it's what I expected. There are always rules that everyone can point to but they are often not enforced. I bet that when it comes to this Islamic appeasement policy, decent standards are simply abandoned.
As for live export, well, I'm sorry, but I cannot agree that it is in any way a decent thing to do. What we do to animals in the name of food entertainment is bad enough, but when you add in this live export/halal crap, well... I'm ashamed of my kind.
The argument that it's money or a livelihood is an ethically barren argument. You could argue that for any activity - sometimes what's right should transcend money. And mistreating animals in that way is not right.
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I wasn't questioning the suicide rate of farmers.
I live twenty minutes from the very small town/locality that was known as Australia's "Suicide Capital" during the drought of the early-mid '00s - my town is one of the corners of the "suicide triangle"...
Similarly, talking to Relfy about his experiences is part of what motivated me to do the whole A4DE thing.
What I was doubting was that there were 15 suicides as a direct result of the banning of live exports.
The whole thing was handled very poorly - and ironically, the government of the day's first decision (to ban live exports to the abattoirs that were known to slaughter inhumanely) was the best - with time to reflect, they then went and buggered it up with a heavy-handed blanket ban.
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Yep, I see it all the time. I've seen obvious immigrants pull up beside the road to change the baby nappies and leave the crap where it lands. I've even seen 1 kid bein allowed to take a dump in the gutter of a city street, wipe his arse and leave the paper there too. No wonder I hate having to go into town. Oh, by the way, I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally.
I know your joking about not being a racist :) but that is a phrase I hear all to often in sincerity
I hate it when people voice an opinion about something and immediately feel the need to follow it up with
"im not a racist " purely because their comment was directed at a (supposed) minority . These bastards love all that shit and even worse those it gives those limp dicked do gooding scum who pedal this PC shit a woody every time they read that phrase .
The reality is if somebody is behaving badly ( as described above ) and they are immigrants then its perfectly ok to say and print that they are immigrants .
Also when did you last see a true blue Aussie kid shitting in the gutter or chucking dirty nappies down the freeway ?
This Halal bullshit is a minor problem in the scheme of things , a much bigger problem is people playing into the hands of the PC scum by apologising without cause .
You listen when your out and see how many people do it and do it with embarrassment ::)
Don't call people racist names but if a problem with an individual arises and they are not Australian then say so and say so with pride ;) If the people of that race choose to take exception then best they get their kind to clean up their act .
I don't know what the country's coming to ::) I even saw Aussies getting into Chad Reed because he gave a prick a dig ::)
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My understanding is that the recipients strongly prefer to have this task performed on their own soil. They may also feel more secure about the slaughtering being performed exactly to their requirements.
Tex
Friend of mine was the Halal butcher at the local abattoir here in Qld.
When he first came to Auzzy he had a chip and no sense of humor , now , after 30 years of us takin the piss he is a pretty good sort of guy with a wicked sense of humor.
Rides a 1199 Panigale.
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this is all about religious imperialism of
islam which appears particularly intolerant of other religions and democratically governed nations and in it's most radical form wants the world united under one god and with every facet of life controlled by a few all omnipotent imans.The corporate culture sublimates itself to their belief structure because there is a buck to be made.Disgusted by this latest news you bet,surprised not really >:(
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Well stuffed if I'm gunna sign up to become a goat tail lifter.
And I won't be strapping dynamite to myself so I can score 73 virgins that ugly that you have to cover their faces with a black rag.
If you cant accept that we all ready have a way of life, grab ya tents and fuk back off to the sand dunes..
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Yep, I see it all the time. I've seen obvious immigrants pull up beside the road to change the baby nappies and leave the crap where it lands. I've even seen 1 kid bein allowed to take a dump in the gutter of a city street, wipe his arse and leave the paper there too. No wonder I hate having to go into town. Oh, by the way, I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally.
I know your joking about not being a racist :) but that is a phrase I hear all to often in sincerity
I hate it when people voice an opinion about something and immediately feel the need to follow it up with
"im not a racist " purely because their comment was directed at a (supposed) minority . These bastards love all that shit and even worse those it gives those limp dicked do gooding scum who pedal this PC shit a woody every time they read that phrase .
The reality is if somebody is behaving badly ( as described above ) and they are immigrants then its perfectly ok to say and print that they are immigrants .
Also when did you last see a true blue Aussie kid shitting in the gutter or chucking dirty nappies down the freeway ?
This Halal bullshit is a minor problem in the scheme of things , a much bigger problem is people playing into the hands of the PC scum by apologising without cause .
You listen when your out and see how many people do it and do it with embarrassment ::)
Don't call people racist names but if a problem with an individual arises and they are not Australian then say so and say so with pride ;) If the people of that race choose to take exception then best they get their kind to clean up their act .
I don't know what the country's coming to ::) I even saw Aussies getting into Chad Reed because he gave a prick a dig ::)
Yes a lot more respect for the Anglo Saxon/European traditions and ethics this great country was founded on.
Along with that should come a healthy dose of race realism; objectively not all cultures and peoples are equal.
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Well stuffed if I'm gunna sign up to become a goat tail lifter.
And I won't be strapping dynamite to myself so I can score 73 virgins that ugly that you have to cover their faces with a black rag.
If you cant accept that we all ready have a way of life, grab ya tents and fuk back off to the sand dunes..
Nowhere is it mentioned to the martyrs that the 73 virgins are women, Mick ;D
Similar to the Greeks bragging that they invented sex - they may well have but it was greatly improved when the French put women into the equation ;D
Anyway, I digress, sorry for the hijack....
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Susan Boyles revelation that she was a virgin saw suicide bomb school enrolments drop significantly! :o
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Susan Boyles revelation that she was a virgin saw suicide bomb school enrolments drop significantly! :o
The day Magna Svanski came out was a sad day for mankind. :o
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Susan Boyles revelation that she was a virgin saw suicide bomb school enrolments drop significantly! :o
And what of the female suicide bombers who are declared martyrs? Long line of 72 blokes in that heavenly gang bang..
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Just read this thread, if the japanese whaling ships continue killing whales in our oceans will we boycott all things japanese? Are whales part of our oz values?
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They lost in the world court so have already stopped and yes the white one even has an Aboriginal name ;)
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If all the animals on our planet had a chance to do what we do to them , there wouldn't be any human race left.
There's a lot of the human race that should hang there heads in shame chickens locked in small cages ,bears etc the lists Gos on.
As for the halal way Australia should stand up for its self it's not our way , so tell them to fork off.
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Just read this thread, if the japanese whaling ships continue killing whales in our oceans will we boycott all things japanese? Are whales part of our oz values?
Weren't they making moves to start again? Can't recall the excuse for it, but they were aiming for a possible loophole.
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the icj ruling ?only covered the antarctic ocean until march , everywhere else is business as usual including the pacific. I think they want about 330 minkys this year, still i dig my jap vmx bike , jap beer, tepenyaki but not whale.
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I'm with you Mick. As for bloody whale hunting, it's a shame the world doesn't stand up and tell Japan to just eff off. I accept that humans eat meat, but the killing, torture, cruelty and so on just for that 5 minutes of pleasure is not a fair equation in my mind. Just because the Japs have a tradition of eating whale doesn't make it OK, any more than shark fin soup is OK, or Tiger penis aphrodisiac, or bear bile, or skinned snakes or tortured dogs.
The list goes on...
However, we probably should go back to talking dirtbikes, it's much less depressing!
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How long does the Japanese tradition of eating whale go back to?
I've heard that it was rare until during or immediately after WW2.
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OK as a Wog import (ex british 1968 arrival ) I like this country In fact I LOVE it and If you new wogs cant blend in or want everything changed to like the place you came from why the fork did you leave the piss hole you came from . that's all from me . Iain
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Its a buyers market and the buyer is dictating the terms
if Australia cant or wont supply it, someone else will.
Brazil have a hell of a lot of cattle
Canada has a lot of iron ore
China have so much coal its not funny
Australia supplies the best quality coking coal in the world yet we sell it at a budget price because someone else is knocking on the door to supply.
So what if stuff is Halal? As long as I can have a choice not to buy Halal thats fine in my books.
i dont give two lumps of goat shyte if someone wants to broaden their customer base , hell i would and so would any business person.
If we dont sell our coal it stays in the ground and people are jobless and broke
if we dont sell our ore it stays in the ground and people are jobless and broke
if our cow cockies didnt sell their stock to OS markets how are they going to get paid?
Business is Business but its good to have a choice and if a business doesnt give the consumer , whoever that is, a choice they lose. Even Henry Ford worked that one out when he bought more than just cans of black paint.
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Well Pokey at the risk of introducing too much of my personal philosophy, the difference is that coal and iron ore doesn't feel and experience the world in the same way you do. When you make a living feeling being into a commodity, you have taken a step too far in my view. because then it becomes OK to visit utter horror onto a creature that cannot defend itself. When people were treated like that, we called it a Holocaust. When animals are treated like that, you call it expanding our market base.
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In answer to Nathan's question I remember reading somewhere that the Japanese were introduced to whale meat by the American Admiral Perry when he visited there in the mid 1800s.So the tradition is not long at all.
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ABC Tv showed the figures last night of what funds their war machine ..... an eye opener big time.
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Susan Boyles revelation that she was a virgin saw suicide bomb school enrolments drop significantly! :o
And what of the female suicide bombers who are declared martyrs? Long line of 72 blokes in that heavenly gang bang..
She would be made to die a long and painfull death a second time for discracing the family as discracing the family is the mans job in the Miuslim world.
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Well Pokey at the risk of introducing too much of my personal philosophy, the difference is that coal and iron ore doesn't feel and experience the world in the same way you do. When you make a living feeling being into a commodity, you have taken a step too far in my view. because then it becomes OK to visit utter horror onto a creature that cannot defend itself. When people were treated like that, we called it a Holocaust. When animals are treated like that, you call it expanding our market base.
And that Graeme, was (is) what led me to gripe on here about my disgust on how badly Halal certified beasts are treated. Not just OS, but right here in Australia. If they (muslims etc) don't like the way we humanely slaughter our beasts, then bugger off and don't buy it. If they don't like our way of life, bugger off back to the slums. If they can't keep their hands to themselves because they see some beautiful woman walking down the street wearing shorts and a skimpy top, bugger off back to your cloak n dagger lifestyle. And if you think it's fine to kill innocent people in the name of "whoeverthefluckitis", get out of my country now. Gutless forkers
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Glass houses boys
Sorry boys but to anyone who buys beef or lamb, livestock is a commodity. Thats why they have sales yards. Maybe im the only non vegan here? Somehow i doubt that.
Speaking of vegans, maybe we should all listen to their point of view on our so called humane method of slaughter.. I dont think they would call it "Kosher" or see it in any different light to "halal".
Seems there are a few points of view on this topic but who is right? Every party think they are right and the funny thing is I agree. Everyone has a right to an opinion, just dont force that opinion on me or ask me to agree with yours. i like choice. orr... are just some people allowed an opinion and not others? Shades of Orson Wells me thinks.
Can you imagine a world filled with Kawasakis because someone didnt like the way Honda laced the rims? What would the Suzukiphiles do then and dont mention the Yamahites.Throw in the voice from the sidecar crews and then the ladies and its WW3 in the making.
Its a belief system people and thats all, a belief. Same as any other religion riddled with dogma and ritual all designed to maintain the faith and all religions have idiosyncracies that to many others seem over the top.
Thankfully in this great land we have a pain in the butt system called elections and its those guys who pass laws on how we live in this country. The so called east asian religious groups know this and its who they are consulting to have laws passed that benefit their beliefs.If you dont like it then contact your local member and tell them. after all majority still rules.
if you dont agree with halal, dont practice it and dont buy halal products.Your dollar is all the producers will listen to as its those people who produce the commodity. If there is no demand they wont produce it.if there is a demand they will.... Simplesss.
We may just find ourselves to be a minority in more ways than just old farts who like noisy old smelly dirt bikes..Ive heard some people dont like those either. ;)
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I'm far from Vegan Pokey. I too know where our meat comes from. I just don't see a need to change our country to suit who, at the moment at least, are a minority. And not just for lending towards halal manufacturing, but into such a politically correct country that we can't call a spade a shovel anymore. Unless you are a politician. Having meat processors dictated to by some heebeegeebee muslim is not Aussie in my view. Maybe you're ok with animals being treated like crap to please some religeous belief, but I'm not.
Yes, I have killed and slaughtered animals but it was always done with the least amount of suffering possible, unlike what goes on for halal meat.
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pokey ... I do like my old bikes very much. ;D quote " old farts who like noisy old smelly dirt bikes..Ive heard some people dont like those either"
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Petrol thread....fuel for the flames, just watching 7.30 and they had a story about the beheading aussie jihadist that has his 3 kids over there has been involved in a series of rapes and pillaging of local women and had the kids holding them at gun point and threatening to phone cam them being shot. ...great people. and they are being called "Australians" ....that needs sorting out!
does that POS have "family" still here???
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Australia has changed a lot since my inception in the very very early 60's.
i had a few Poms and a Czech as school mates and a few coori's. Cant remember any Asians at school and even at high school the only Indians were on F troop. Gay meant happy and dad could have a smoke in the front bar of the pub with a few schooners and mum had a shandy in the lounge.(women weren't allowed in the bar)
Now, its a bit different.My ex brother in law is a poof but i can call him that as he knows its not meant as derogatory and i accept him for him. Not despise him for being himself. My sons best mate is a refugee from Somalia and there are many different people from many different nations now residing in my small town.Even my girlfriend is a QueeNZlander as are a few of my mates like that old fart from down the road and I think they are bloody good people. My dad still wont eat any of that foreign muck as he calls it (spaghetti) and hasnt changed from knocking the top off a few chooks or stringing a beast up and filling the freezer.
Some things change and some things stay the same.There are lots i dont enjoy about this country changing but lots i do like.
Personally i dont like halal and dont support it but I do see that some people need it so they can practice their faith and I understand that. i also understand that Judaism requires Kosher foods but some people despise Jews. Catholicism requires certain rituals to be performed and an abstinence from birth control. lots of people despise the catholic church.Buddhists have a rule of not killing ANYTHING. I dont agree with any of that and will slap a mozzie and run over a cane toad no problem as Im anything but religious or a member of any do gooders society. However, some of my mates are religious and have beliefs and i accept that they believe and respect that.
Its inevitable that Australia will continue to evolve as the world gets smaller and many of the icons i grew up with are sold off and are changed whether i believe its for the good of the nation or not. if and when the things i dont like pisses me off enough i will voice my opinion in the correct manner and that will be by political means as i have done before. Not just blowing hot air up some ones skirt as that does nothing.
Cheers guys
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Pokey we can all have an opinion but we can't all act on it. Society enacts a framework of laws that is derived from agreed standards for behaviour in that society. Joe down the street might think it's entirely OK to whip the clitoris off his daughter and he might think that's a jolly fine thing, luckily though for the daughters of Australia our society doesn't agree with him.
Same with lots of other things.
Including unnecessarily cruel treatment of animals. While it is a fact that animals have become a commodity, that doesn't mean we have to ignore the fact that they are also fellow beings. Yes, we take a pragmatic approach to life and kill the mozzies, the feral animals, and sheep and cattle. Thankfully though there are more and more people that think that stuffing animals into ships to go to some far off land to be slaughtered cruelly isn't actually the right thing to do.
I'm no vegan, but I don't think that eating meat means that we have to mistreat the poor sods we eat. For chrissakes, those animals are no different to you when it comes down to it. How'd you feel if it was your kids being treated like that? We kill and eat animals cos that's the way it is but who the hell says we should make it any more awful than it has to be so someone makes a quid?
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Anyways, my point is that I'm dead set disgusted by, and against, Halal slaughter and live export. I'll leave it at that.
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what Pokey said :)
A few years ago an obituary notice was doing the rounds in cyber media.
The funeral was for "Common Scene", yesterday I saw its resurrection/reflection and that was within in our own National VMX sport. 8)
Keep at it folks 8)
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http://www.news.com.au/finance/small-business/halal-conspiracy-theorists-bullying-australian-businesses/story-fn9evb64-1227119726790
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Put it another way ..... can we practice our belief in their country.
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Put it another way ..... can we practice our belief in their country.
Absolutely not. Look at the poor bloke Peter Grester (journalist) (as an example) who is stuck in some filthy jail for allegedly supporting one group or another. No charges, No trial, a kangaroo court and off you go for 7 years because the newspapaer he works for wrote something the government of Egypt didn't like. Is that Democracy?
I'm all for tolerance. As long as those that come to this once great (greater than what it is now) abide by OUR laws and show RESPECT for our way of life. The amount of times I've seen the Australian flag being burnt in some protest about our involvement, or lack of involvement in foreign matters is a disgrace. Try burning an Iraqi flag.....see how far that gets you.
Yep. I'm disgusted.
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Friend of mine was the Halal butcher at the local abattoir here in Qld.
The Abattoir that this guy worked in is an large Australian abattoir run under Australian rules so the animals killed were killed humanely.
Cheers
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That news story had a link to the RSPCA website which explains the difference between halal and non-halal animal slaughter in Australia. The basic halal requirement is that the animal be slaughtered by a Muslim and that the animal 'be alive' (which is a funny thing to say....).
In Australia, its a requirement that animals be unconscious when slaughtered. This is normally done through a 'non reversible' stun gun, which renders the animal so unconscious that they generally never regain any state of consciousness through the process to kill and bleed them out.
The dispensation given to enable animal slaughter here to qualify as halal is that they can use a 'reversible' stun gun. This appears to mean the 'stun' is not so strong, and which presumably means that some animals (most?) regain some level of consciousness while being bled out.
The full irreversible stun still keeps the animal alive - just unconscious - so why isn't that good enough?
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What makes me uneasy about all of this, is that so many otherwise sane people are so keen to make blanket statements about Muslims and how "bad" they ALL are.
Have a look at way various minority groups were persecuted in pre-war Nazi Germany, and tell me that we're not on the same path. No, we haven't gathered up the Muslims and put them all in camps, but have a look at the calls of "send them all back" and the talkback radio rhetoric of "these people" and then tell me that it is really any different to the way the Jews were treated just before the Nazis began to put them in concentration camps...
I am absolutely NOT condoning the f%^kwit behaviour that happens in the name of Islam. I have no tolerance for the repression of women and even less for sanctioned abuse of women. I loathe the violence just as much as anyone. I despise any religion that grants its followers a sense of superiority over the rest of the population. I wonder how its OK to hold up a sign saying "Death to Infidels" in a public place in Australia.
But it makes my hair stand on end when we judge every Muslim on the behaviour of the worst.
Are all Catholics kiddy fiddlers?
Are all dirt bikers teenagers on pitbikes in suburban streets at 2am?
etc.
We are not going to deal with the actual problems we have with Islam while we ruin our own arguments and waste our energy, on bitching about irrelevant crap and unfairly targeting the wrong people.
If you don't believe me, write down a list of the specific issues you have with Islam - and put them in order, from most important to least important. Now look at the items on the bottom of the list and imagine they were the entire list - bet they look pretty trivial...
It is increasingly obvious that we need to do something about Radical Islam, and the violence it brings. But I'm here to tell you that accusing all Muslims of being extremists and complaining about the way Halal certification adds to the retail price, are not even close to being part of the solution.
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Well said Nathan
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Well written but IMO most aussie's are very tolerant and most of what ive read above are talking about the minority of bad eggs - as long as they are seen to be weeded out by "all" fair minded australian's the status quo should prevail - but i'd be thinkin' there IS a line
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Well written but IMO most aussie's are very tolerant and most of what ive read above are talking about the minority of bad eggs - as long as they are seen to be weeded out by "all" fair minded australian's the status quo should prevail - but i'd be thinkin' there IS a line
Agreed. I do consider myself sane (though my phsyc might think otherwise) and I am in no way tarring all muslims with the same brush. No more than I would catholics, jews, protestants etc. I am not religious at all so for me to argue against any particular religion is null and void. Does that make sense? Hmm. Anyway, my disgust is more related to the way our law makers allow, and indeed, change to our Australian traditions that have been formed since the first fleet landed. Luckily of late, our indigenous brothers and sisters are getting a better go in society. There are bad eggs there too. There are bad eggs in all races. That is a given.
However, not since the days of the IRA have we seen such senseless violence and lack of respect for others that is happening with these jihad extremists. And they are coming to Australia trying to instill THEIR WAYS onto us.
Put the shoe on the other foot. Imagine if a whole heap of Aussies went to Iraq or anywhere in the middle east, set up a community where beer, wine, BBQ's, music, current affairs, dancing half naked under a scorching sun, bagging politicians or dictators, setting up MX tracks, have our own flag on their parliment etc. and on it goes. We wouldn't last 5 minutes. Dead. Kapoot. No more.
Australia was built with multicultural hands. Irish, English, Greeks, Italians, Chinese etc. and we (they) all worked out how to get along a long time ago. They fought the government standover men side by side, as one.
Now we have a divide in this once great nation. I'm a pretty big stature bloke and there are streets in Sydney and Melbourne where I feel genuinely uneasy walking them. Not because I'm the only Caucasian or because I can't read any of the shop fronts. Not because of the rubbish everywhere and the sometimes putrid smells, but for the filthy stares I get. And I'm sure I'm not alone here when I say it's just not right.
We can't do it over "there" Why can "they" do it here? Australians don't have to live in squalor, and nor do any new arrivals. Seems "they" don't really want a new country to live where peace, harmony, clean spaces, nice houses, mateship and all the rest that makes us proud to call Australia home. They want to (and do) bring their ways with them and instill them upon us. If we say anything against it, we are labelled infidels and racists.
Yep. I'm still dead set disgusted.
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Agreed. I do consider myself sane (though my phsyc might think otherwise) and I am in no way tarring all muslims with the same brush. No more than I would catholics, jews, protestants etc. I am not religious at all so for me to argue against any particular religion is null and void. Does that make sense? Hmm. Anyway, my disgust is more related to the way our law makers allow, and indeed, change to our Australian traditions that have been formed since the first fleet landed. Luckily of late, our indigenous brothers and sisters are getting a better go in society. There are bad eggs there too. There are bad eggs in all races. That is a given.
However, not since the days of the IRA have we seen such senseless violence and lack of respect for others that is happening with these jihad extremists. And they are coming to Australia trying to instill THEIR WAYS onto us.
Put the shoe on the other foot. Imagine if a whole heap of Aussies went to Iraq or anywhere in the middle east, set up a community where beer, wine, BBQ's, music, current affairs, dancing half naked under a scorching sun, bagging politicians or dictators, setting up MX tracks, have our own flag on their parliment etc. and on it goes. We wouldn't last 5 minutes. Dead. Kapoot. No more.
Australia was built with multicultural hands. Irish, English, Greeks, Italians, Chinese etc. and we (they) all worked out how to get along a long time ago. They fought the government standover men side by side, as one.
Now we have a divide in this once great nation. I'm a pretty big stature bloke and there are streets in Sydney and Melbourne where I feel genuinely uneasy walking them. Not because I'm the only Caucasian or because I can't read any of the shop fronts. Not because of the rubbish everywhere and the sometimes putrid smells, but for the filthy stares I get. And I'm sure I'm not alone here when I say it's just not right.
We can't do it over "there" Why can "they" do it here? Australians don't have to live in squalor, and nor do any new arrivals. Seems "they" don't really want a new country to live where peace, harmony, clean spaces, nice houses, mateship and all the rest that makes us proud to call Australia home. They want to (and do) bring their ways with them and instill them upon us. If we say anything against it, we are labelled infidels and racists.
Yep. I'm still dead set disgusted.
How much do we actually change our laws or traditions to accommodate Muslims?
Every year we get the same "Citizens Day" crap on FB, but I'm yet to see ANY sign of any support for changing Australia Day. Every year, it becomes more obvious that it is a deliberate lie that is intended to stir up a particular brand of patriotism, against an imagined enemy.
Same goes for "Happy Holidays" replacing "Merry Christmas", and I'm still yet to find a single person who hasn't been allowed to say "Merry Christmas"... It is another imagined enemy.
Previous imagined enemies include the Greek and Italian immigrants of the 50s and 60s, the Vietnamese of the 70s and early 80s, the Japanese of the late 80s... While there were social conflicts at the time, none of these "threats" amounted to anything...
Australia's wealth and education system make it difficult for radicalism to survive. The promise of 72 virgins might sound good when you're living in absolute poverty in a desert somewhere, but it loses a lot of appeal when you've got a nice house in the suburbs, a girlfriend, a decent job and a nice car in the garage...
Education also reduces the influence of religious dogma. Is no coincidence that there's a consistent trend of countries with good education systems having more moderate religious views - and Australia has a good education system.
This is not to say that we don't need to be careful of Aussies becoming radicalised, but wealth, prosperity and inclusion all greatly reduce the risks.
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Nathan,well thought out view you have. I don't think a lot of people realise that there have been Muslims in Oz for a very long time. Well over a hundred years. All the pot stirring is a media beat up. It'll be someone else's turn soon enough and the same people will have the same complaints. Want change,enter politics. Our govt and media have a lot to answer for.
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Very well written Nathan. Were you part of the school debate team? ;D ;D ;D
You didn't quite address my question though....
I'll answer one of yours though. I can't call a Jew a Jew, I can't call a Muslim a Muslim, I can't call a wog a wog. I can't call a spade a spade. I can't mention anything about hypothetical terrorist situations with risking being locked up for 3 weeks without charge.
I dunno, you tell me what laws and traditions are changed to suit minorities.
Just because Merry Christmas hasn't been outlawed yet, doesn't mean it's readily accepted. It seems every year there are more and more schools being hounded by parents wanting the saying excluded.
Remember the Cronulla riots? Well, it was all started by some smart arse group of knife throwers who thought they had the right to try and intimidate a bloke away from his girlfriend. Seems one of the group thought he was entitled to chat up his girl..... How do I know? One of my surfie mates was with the couple.
Then when they were out numbered by the couples mates, they ran off and sent hundreds of text messages to their kind to get to the beach pronto.... Once they had big numbers, they stormed the beach. The rest is history.
Sound like Australian values and respect to you?
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Very well written Nathan. Were you part of the school debate team? ;D ;D ;D
You didn't quite address my question though....
I'll answer one of yours though. I can't call a Jew a Jew, I can't call a Muslim a Muslim, I can't call a wog a wog. I can't call a spade a spade. I can't mention anything about hypothetical terrorist situations with risking being locked up for 3 weeks without charge.
I dunno, you tell me what laws and traditions are changed to suit minorities.
Anti-discrimination laws are supposed to apply equally across the board.
Do you reckon you stand more or less chance of being locked up for talking about a hypothetical terrorist situation than a Lebanese bloke who said exactly the same things?
Just because Merry Christmas hasn't been outlawed yet, doesn't mean it's readily accepted. It seems every year there are more and more schools being hounded by parents wanting the saying excluded.
Name a school where this has happened. I've heard the story many times, but on the very rare occasions where the school has been named, its been followed by the school releasing a statement which says 'The story is a load of bullsh'.
Imaginary enemies.
Remember the Cronulla riots? Well, it was all started by some smart arse group of knife throwers who thought they had the right to try and intimidate a bloke away from his girlfriend. Seems one of the group thought he was entitled to chat up his girl..... How do I know? One of my surfie mates was with the couple.
Then when they were out numbered by the couples mates, they ran off and sent hundreds of text messages to their kind to get to the beach pronto.... Once they had big numbers, they stormed the beach. The rest is history.
Sound like Australian values and respect to you?
This is not quite what happened. Do I need to remind you about Alan Jones' role in it all?
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That's exactly what happened at the beach Nathan. Then again, you are always right :o
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i was going call bs on the merry christmas thing but nathan sorted it , the workplace laws are changing to suit a handful of multi millionaires.D ont know what religion they subscribe to but they also got rid of the tradition of not working sundays. In 1967 my year one class , mexicans, lebanese. asians, greeks, italians, ect . Model t fords were blue......apparently,
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With respect Nathan, I don't think you are living and working in an environment where there are a reasonable number of muslim communities. I would make two simple points, firstly that I cannot think of any other mainstream religion that causes more angst in many parts of the world (not just Australia) and more locally, that much of organised crime here has been infiltrated by muslim groups, just check the stats on drive by shootings for starters.
If you don't think Australian society is being changed in a negative way then it might be worth your while to visit Sydney more often, it isn't the same place I grew up in when I was younger.
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I can't think of another religion that gets there 8 year old daughter and straps a bomb on her and tells her to push a button down at the shops ?
You can't call these people humans at all , I realise not all Muslims are the same but they all go under the same flag , mecca
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I must add that I do have friends who I have an involvement with through work who are fair minded hard working people and I am proud to shake their hand. These are muslims who are also outraged and embarrassed by the behaviour of their "brothers", but denying that there are problems in their communities is just nonsense.
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Not what I was saying, Rob. The real problems are the real problems, and I have no interest in denying them.
But why do we spend so much time on irrelevant crap and trivial stuff?
I disagree with inhumane slaughter of animals, and halal slaughter is more likely (but not certain) to result in inhumane slaughter.
So why is there little discussion about that, but so much talk about nonsense like how much halal certification adds to the retail cost?
I don't think it's OK to walk around in public with signs that threaten violence to infidels. Why aren't we doing something about that (or at least figuring out why it is allowed), rather than carrying on like pork chops about women wearing niqabs?
Why is there no sensible public discussion about avoiding radicalisation, but we hear about Citizens Day with monotonous regularity?
Etc.
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monte34 you cant think of any other mainstream religion that causes more angst? your not thinking very hard. the catholic church has allowed its clergy to RAPE and SEXUALLY MOLEST young children around the world for years. Child sexual abuse crimes were committed by Catholic priests, nuns and members of Roman Catholic orders against boys and girls as young as three years old, with the majority between the ages of 11 and 14. It spans many decades and were brought forward years after the abuse occurred. Cases have also been brought against members of the Catholic hierarchy who did not report sex abuse allegations to the legal authorities. It was shown that they deliberately moved sexually abusive priests to other parishes, where the abuse sometimes continued. This led to a number of fraud cases where the Church was accused of misleading victims by deliberately relocating priests accused of abuse instead of removing them from their positions.
Well said lewis and Nathan.
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which is back to my point of ALL religions being an imagined excuse for unhuman behaviour with an "excuse"
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"And no religion too" Imagine John Lennon
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At Our kids school they are not allowed to have christmas decorations or have jesus mentioned in certain carols. Thats just wrong.
I do come across people whom seem very tolerant to all of this. Most of them come from areas where they did not grow up with certain groups hastling the ozzie or the convict as i was called by the turks at Ashfield when we were kids in the early eighty's. Approx half of them were total assholes then, and they grew up to be the same. How come a greater percentage of them are assholes compared to other groups in our community.
I will never forget the time a kid called Ibrihim took half of my sandwich (without permission), He asked whilst chewing what is this i said its three threes pickles on ham sandwich, he said ham is pork. I understand now why he was horrified at what he had done. -Go to hell asshole! No virgins or lamb for you.
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I think if religion was invented today it wouldn't get a look in. I was christened in a Catholic Church to appease my grandparents I think. After that my parents never encouraged any church going or religious indoctrination. For that I am very grateful. Just as an aside I have been in many Muslim households through my work as a paramedic. Without exception I have been impressed with the cleanliness of the home the respect for us as paramedics and the behaviour of the children etc. I wish I could say the same for every Aussie home I've been in. Just saying. J
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What's the argument against Christmas decorations?
Christmas and Easter are culturally and legally enshrined, but their religious aspects are socially irrelevant nowdays.
This is why "Merry Christmas" is not under attack: "Christmas" is it's own event, distinct from the religion-specific "Happy Birthday to the Jewish Zombie".
Most of the "Happy Holidays" nonsense comes from outraged Christian groups who are offended that the religious aspect is marginalised, and it's their way of trying to refocus the event on Christianity.
So yeah: I'm happy that references to Jesus and God are not allowed in public schools (outside of secular RE classes), just as I'm happy that references to Allah or Vishnu are not allowed.
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I'm with you Nathan. J
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Just a question, Who is in favour of Australia having an Islamic state?
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Just a question, Who is in favour of Australia having an Islamic state?
Nobody.
Well, you might find some Muslims who do, but as part of the Muslim population they're a minority. As part of the total population, they're an utterly irrelevant minority.
Yes, we need to stay vigilant and protect our way of life and our tolerance, but there's no threat to that from Islam in the foreseeable future.
The bigger threat is that otherwise sane Australians will get caught up in the hype and become far more extreme than the vast majority of Muslims.
The even bigger threat to our way of life are draconian "anti-bikie" and "anti-terrorism" laws that could all too easily apply to people who are neither terrorists or bikies.
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Nathan, have you lived in sydney in the last few years mate... Take a walk through Blacktown, Eastlakes or Lakemba...
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Nathan, have you lived in sydney in the last few years mate... Take a walk through Blacktown, Eastlakes or Lakemba...
F$%k no. Turd of a place. And not because of the Muslims.
http://gawker.com/fox-news-apologizes-for-impressively-dumb-and-wrong-isl-1680272051
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/20/paris-mayor-anne-hidalgo-muslim-no-go-zones
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Nathan there are already City parts in Europe that are fully Moslem , from schools , courts (scharia) , MP , churches , shopping centres . All fully Halal . Duesseldorf already has the Scharia Police . In Berlin you can not go into certain quarters anymore . Its on the move . The only clean spot I still now is the Reeperbahn in Hamburg . ;D
Reeperbahn mmm naughty been there done that .Iain
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quick left turn here and probably the hidden issue for us in aus is the "ice epidemic" sweeping the place.
A local builder just went bust ...turns out he has a 7K a week ice habit...not just kids
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Ice
Yep, the ice problem is massive. The good old heroin gave them plenty of time to get addicted, get off it and took a real long time to kill someone. Ice is ten times faster on all facets.
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There are a lot of people on here I see goosestepping behind Adolf blaming ALL Jews ALL Books ALL Gays ALL Criminals ALL Gypsies ALL the Mentally ill for societies problems. ( Is there any I left out that he didn't gas?)
History is supposed to teach us.
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I had no idea that this thread would become 8 pages worth. It seems there are plenty of us here that don't want Australia to be dragged down any further by our law makers.
We are only but a handful of people on here. I wonder just how many feel the same out in the real world....
Ice
Yep, the ice problem is massive. The good old heroin gave them plenty of time to get addicted, get off it and took a real long time to kill someone. Ice is ten times faster on all facets.
While I don't necessarily agree with the death penalty, It's good to know that the fools who choose, that's right, CHOOSE to play with ICE or HEROIN, are on a one way path to the ground. That way, it gives them less opportunity to come and rip me off or to interfere with my life in some other way. As for the arseholes that are making and selling the stuff, they should get life in prison. After all is said and done, the makers and dealers are committing the end users to a life sentence.
The even bigger threat to our way of life are draconian "anti-bikie" and "anti-terrorism" laws that could all too easily apply to people who are neither terrorists or bikies.
And all the paper reading, news watching believers, do gooders of the nation think that these laws are for the good of society. It's now illegal to ride in a group on QLD roads, whether you're a bikie or not. Argue with the cops for them impounding your pride n joy, and you're off for a night in the cells. No doubt with a bit of a touch up as well. Even walking down the street, if the coppers say you and your mates look like a gang of some sort, they drag you off to the cells for that too.
If the cops decide they don't like you, for whatever reason, they can say that you are SUSPECTED to have terrorist links or are a sympathiser and drag you off to jail for 30 days without arrest.
Go to an airport and mention the word bomb, knife, gun or some other form of violence, even if you are just stirring shit with your mates or Mrs or whoever, the chances are you will miss your flight and probably have to endure a cavity search as well.
Our way of life, you know, the aussie take the piss out of everything, joking, larikin, she'll be right attitude is a thing of the past.
I'm still disgusted.....
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Non of this is an issue in Eastern Europe or Russia. Hmm, wondering why?
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fourstrokeforever, you are doing just what we expect, bend the truth to suit your hysterics. A person suspected of terrorism can be held for 14 days without charge not 30. And while there maybe overzealous police on the beat, it is not illegal to ride in groups in Qld and if you are not associated with the 26 gangs that are named in legislation no prob.
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want Australia to be dragged down any further by our law makers.
We are only but a handful of people on here. I wonder just how many feel the same out in the real world....
My View on above:
I think a lot feel the same way deep down, We are trained to be politically correct, have freedom of speech -but don't bag the minority. Some just cannot be bothered to put the energy into these opinions as there is no use. Others have not seen what some have to influence thoughts.
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Isn't there another site this could be discussed? Failing that is is possible to have a "thread-ignore" function?
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I think we are done here....weve had a rant and the issues are clear. the perception of them is as it should be , many and varied. aussie day brekky comin up!
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Yep, done to death now. Now it's Australia Day so let's go enjoy the day, be positive and leave this one behind.