I'm dead set disgusted

[FourstrokeForever]

      Well written but IMO most aussie's are very tolerant and most of what ive read above  are talking about the minority of bad eggs -  as long as they are seen to be weeded out  by "all" fair minded australian's the status quo should prevail - but i'd be thinkin' there IS a line

Agreed. I do consider myself sane (though my phsyc might think otherwise) and I am in no way tarring all muslims with the same brush. No more than I would catholics, jews, protestants etc. I am not religious at all so for me to argue against any particular religion is null and void. Does that make sense? Hmm. Anyway, my disgust is more related to the way our law makers allow, and indeed, change to our Australian traditions that have been formed since the first fleet landed. Luckily of late, our indigenous brothers and sisters are getting a better go in society. There are bad eggs there too. There are bad eggs in all races. That is a given.
However, not since the days of the IRA have we seen such senseless violence and lack of respect for others that is happening with these jihad extremists. And they are coming to Australia trying to instill THEIR WAYS onto us.
Put the shoe on the other foot. Imagine if a whole heap of Aussies went to Iraq or anywhere in the middle east, set up a community where beer, wine, BBQ's, music, current affairs, dancing half naked under a scorching sun, bagging politicians or dictators, setting up MX tracks, have our own flag on their parliment etc. and on it goes. We wouldn't last 5 minutes. Dead. Kapoot. No more.
Australia was built with multicultural hands. Irish, English, Greeks, Italians, Chinese etc. and we (they) all worked out how to get along a long time ago. They fought the government standover men side by side, as one.
Now we have a divide in this once great nation. I'm a pretty big stature bloke and there are streets in Sydney and Melbourne where I feel genuinely uneasy walking them. Not because I'm the only Caucasian or because I can't read any of the shop fronts. Not because of the rubbish everywhere and the sometimes putrid smells, but for the filthy stares I get. And I'm sure I'm not alone here when I say it's just not right.
We can't do it over "there" Why can "they" do it here? Australians don't have to live in squalor, and nor do any new arrivals. Seems "they" don't really want a new country to live where peace, harmony, clean spaces, nice houses, mateship and all the rest that makes us proud to call Australia home. They want to (and do) bring their ways with them and instill them upon us. If we say anything against it, we are labelled infidels and racists.
Yep. I'm still dead set disgusted.

[Nathan S]

Agreed. I do consider myself sane (though my phsyc might think otherwise) and I am in no way tarring all muslims with the same brush. No more than I would catholics, jews, protestants etc. I am not religious at all so for me to argue against any particular religion is null and void. Does that make sense? Hmm. Anyway, my disgust is more related to the way our law makers allow, and indeed, change to our Australian traditions that have been formed since the first fleet landed. Luckily of late, our indigenous brothers and sisters are getting a better go in society. There are bad eggs there too. There are bad eggs in all races. That is a given.
However, not since the days of the IRA have we seen such senseless violence and lack of respect for others that is happening with these jihad extremists. And they are coming to Australia trying to instill THEIR WAYS onto us.
Put the shoe on the other foot. Imagine if a whole heap of Aussies went to Iraq or anywhere in the middle east, set up a community where beer, wine, BBQ's, music, current affairs, dancing half naked under a scorching sun, bagging politicians or dictators, setting up MX tracks, have our own flag on their parliment etc. and on it goes. We wouldn't last 5 minutes. Dead. Kapoot. No more.
Australia was built with multicultural hands. Irish, English, Greeks, Italians, Chinese etc. and we (they) all worked out how to get along a long time ago. They fought the government standover men side by side, as one.
Now we have a divide in this once great nation. I'm a pretty big stature bloke and there are streets in Sydney and Melbourne where I feel genuinely uneasy walking them. Not because I'm the only Caucasian or because I can't read any of the shop fronts. Not because of the rubbish everywhere and the sometimes putrid smells, but for the filthy stares I get. And I'm sure I'm not alone here when I say it's just not right.
We can't do it over "there" Why can "they" do it here? Australians don't have to live in squalor, and nor do any new arrivals. Seems "they" don't really want a new country to live where peace, harmony, clean spaces, nice houses, mateship and all the rest that makes us proud to call Australia home. They want to (and do) bring their ways with them and instill them upon us. If we say anything against it, we are labelled infidels and racists.
Yep. I'm still dead set disgusted.

How much do we actually change our laws or traditions to accommodate Muslims?
Every year we get the same "Citizens Day" crap on FB, but I'm yet to see ANY sign of any support for changing Australia Day. Every year, it becomes more obvious that it is a deliberate lie that is intended to stir up a particular brand of patriotism, against an imagined enemy.
Same goes for "Happy Holidays" replacing "Merry Christmas", and I'm still yet to find a single person who hasn't been allowed to say "Merry Christmas"... It is another imagined enemy.

Previous imagined enemies include the Greek and Italian immigrants of the 50s and 60s, the Vietnamese of the 70s and early 80s, the Japanese of the late 80s... While there were social conflicts at the time, none of these "threats" amounted to anything...

Australia's wealth and education system make it difficult for radicalism to survive. The promise of 72 virgins might sound good when you're living in absolute poverty in a desert somewhere, but it loses a lot of appeal when you've got a nice house in the suburbs, a girlfriend, a decent job and a nice car in the garage...
Education also reduces the influence of religious dogma. Is no coincidence that there's a consistent trend of countries with good education systems having more moderate religious views - and Australia has a good education system.

This is not to say that we don't need to be careful of Aussies becoming radicalised, but wealth, prosperity and inclusion all greatly reduce the risks.

[Lewis]

Nathan,well thought out view you have. I don't think a lot of people realise that there have been Muslims in Oz for a very long time. Well over a hundred years. All the pot stirring is a media beat up. It'll be someone else's turn soon enough and the same people will have the same complaints. Want change,enter politics. Our govt and media have a lot to answer for.

[FourstrokeForever]

Very well written Nathan. Were you part of the school debate team? 

You didn't quite address my question though....

I'll answer one of yours though. I can't call a Jew a Jew, I can't call a Muslim a Muslim, I can't call a wog a wog. I can't call a spade a spade. I can't mention anything about hypothetical terrorist situations with risking being locked up for 3 weeks without charge.

I dunno, you tell me what laws and traditions are changed to suit minorities.

Just because Merry Christmas hasn't been outlawed yet, doesn't mean it's readily accepted. It seems every year there are more and more schools being hounded by parents wanting the saying excluded.

Remember the Cronulla riots? Well, it was all started by some smart arse group of knife throwers who thought they had the right to try and intimidate a bloke away from his girlfriend. Seems one of the group thought he was entitled to chat up his girl..... How do I know? One of my surfie mates was with the couple.
Then when they were out numbered by the couples mates, they ran off and sent hundreds of text messages to their kind to get to the beach pronto.... Once they had big numbers, they stormed the beach. The rest is history.
Sound like Australian values and respect to you?

[Nathan S]

Very well written Nathan. Were you part of the school debate team? 

You didn't quite address my question though....

I'll answer one of yours though. I can't call a Jew a Jew, I can't call a Muslim a Muslim, I can't call a wog a wog. I can't call a spade a spade. I can't mention anything about hypothetical terrorist situations with risking being locked up for 3 weeks without charge.

I dunno, you tell me what laws and traditions are changed to suit minorities.

Anti-discrimination laws are supposed to apply equally across the board.
Do you reckon you stand more or less chance of being locked up for talking about a hypothetical terrorist situation than a Lebanese bloke who said exactly the same things?

Just because Merry Christmas hasn't been outlawed yet, doesn't mean it's readily accepted. It seems every year there are more and more schools being hounded by parents wanting the saying excluded.

Name a school where this has happened. I've heard the story many times, but on the very rare occasions where the school has been named, its been followed by the school releasing a statement which says 'The story is a load of bullsh'.
Imaginary enemies.

Remember the Cronulla riots? Well, it was all started by some smart arse group of knife throwers who thought they had the right to try and intimidate a bloke away from his girlfriend. Seems one of the group thought he was entitled to chat up his girl..... How do I know? One of my surfie mates was with the couple.
Then when they were out numbered by the couples mates, they ran off and sent hundreds of text messages to their kind to get to the beach pronto.... Once they had big numbers, they stormed the beach. The rest is history.
Sound like Australian values and respect to you?

This is not quite what happened. Do I need to remind you about Alan Jones' role in it all?

[FourstrokeForever]

That's exactly what happened at the beach Nathan. Then again, you are always right 

[the farm]

i was going call bs on the merry christmas thing but nathan sorted it , the workplace laws are changing to suit a handful of multi millionaires.D ont know what religion they subscribe to but they also got rid of the tradition of not working sundays. In 1967 my year one class , mexicans, lebanese. asians, greeks, italians, ect . Model t fords were blue......apparently,

[monte34]

With respect Nathan, I don't think you are living and working in an environment where there are a reasonable number of muslim communities. I  would make two simple points, firstly that I cannot think of any other mainstream religion that causes more angst in many parts of the world (not just Australia) and more locally, that much of organised crime here has been infiltrated by muslim groups, just check the stats on drive by shootings for starters.
If you don't think Australian society is being changed in a negative way then it might be worth your while to visit Sydney more often, it isn't the same place I grew up in when I was younger.

[mick25]

I can't think of another religion that gets there 8 year old daughter and straps a bomb on her and tells her to push a button down at the shops ?
You can't call these people humans at all , I realise not all Muslims are the same but they all go under the same flag , mecca

[monte34]

I must add that I do have friends who I have an involvement with through work who are fair minded hard working people and I am proud to shake their hand. These are muslims who are also outraged and embarrassed by the behaviour of their "brothers", but denying that there are problems in their communities is just nonsense.

[Nathan S]

Not what I was saying, Rob. The real problems are the real problems, and I have no interest in denying them.

But why do we spend so much time on irrelevant crap and trivial stuff?

I disagree with inhumane slaughter of animals, and halal slaughter is more likely (but not certain) to result in inhumane slaughter.
So why is there little discussion about that, but so much talk about nonsense like how much halal certification adds to the retail cost?

I don't think it's OK to walk around in public with signs that threaten violence to infidels. Why aren't we doing something about that (or at least figuring out why it is allowed), rather than carrying on like pork chops about women wearing niqabs?

Why is there no sensible public discussion about avoiding radicalisation, but we hear about Citizens Day with monotonous regularity?

Etc.

[Kane Mcguire]

monte34 you cant think of any other mainstream religion that causes more angst? your not thinking very hard.  the catholic church has allowed its clergy to RAPE and SEXUALLY MOLEST young children around the world for years. Child sexual abuse crimes were committed by Catholic priests, nuns and members of Roman Catholic orders against boys and girls as young as three years old, with the majority between the ages of 11 and 14. It spans many decades and were brought forward years after the abuse occurred. Cases have also been brought against members of the Catholic hierarchy who did not report sex abuse allegations to the legal authorities. It was shown that they deliberately moved sexually abusive priests to other parishes, where the abuse sometimes continued. This led to a number of fraud cases where the Church was accused of misleading victims by deliberately relocating priests accused of abuse instead of removing them from their positions.
Well said lewis and Nathan.

[80-85 husky]

which is back to my point of ALL religions being an imagined excuse for unhuman behaviour with an "excuse"

[jerry]

"And no religion too" Imagine John Lennon

[oldyzman]

At Our kids school they are not allowed to have christmas decorations or have jesus mentioned in certain carols. Thats just wrong.
I do come across people whom seem very tolerant to all of this. Most of them come from areas where they did not grow up with certain groups hastling the ozzie or the convict as i was called by the turks at Ashfield when we were kids in the early eighty's. Approx half of them were total assholes then, and they grew up to be the same. How come a greater percentage of them are assholes compared to other groups in our community.
I will never forget the time a kid called Ibrihim took half of my sandwich (without permission), He asked whilst chewing what is this i said its three threes pickles on ham sandwich, he said ham is pork. I understand now why he was horrified at what he had done.    -Go to hell asshole! No virgins or lamb for you.