unless you have a revolutionary new method of construction
Rickman replica with water cooled engine, no thanks
Found that the small potential market didn't warrant the amount of work required.
230kgs maybe why!!!!
I have a deep interest in VMX ...
I mean a classic looking bike but with modern power, smoothness, electric starting and total reliability, why would you bother hey.
From my side of the fence, that proposal is against the classic VMX movement per se.
230Kgs???? Yep, weigh up that "modern classic" Trumpy!
No 17 Metisse with the 998 is actually for sale , comes with MX front end , Promax MX shocks and spare wheels ;D Please PM
I would like to trade up from this one day
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/OLDCOMPUTER694.jpg?t=1305086856)
To something like this
(http://imagineannie.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/straight-jacket1.jpg)
I would like to trade up from this one day
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/OLDCOMPUTER694.jpg?t=1305086856)
To something like this
(http://imagineannie.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/straight-jacket1.jpg)
Fixed.
Hey Mick,
Is that sling on the front wheel of the Beema to stop anyone stealing your pool fence? :D :D :D :D
A bit vague ???
What exactly do you mean?
You should ride it harder! ::) Just to let you know about the mechanical rev limiter - at 10,750rpm (I kid you not) the cams come apart. Found that out on a supercharged K we were playing with........
For your Metisse kit to be viable you'd need to make it from 4130 chrome-moly tubing, Reynolds or another lightweight alloy steel.
I thought they used 531?They do Tim but it's pretty hard to get Reynolds 531 here so 4130 or something close would be the logical alternatives.
Hey Firko, I have looked at some of your kits that you have bought in and thought they may be good to replicate, but to do them properly would be way dearer than what you have been buying secondhand frames for. Not sure there would be a market for them at new prices.In a nutshell. It just ain't worth it for such a limited market.
I guess you worked that out too
Setting up for a modern motor in old styling should work for the road bike crowd, but if you have to change the frame geometry from the normal Metisse to fit a modern motor in, or just change axle mounts etc, then using the frame for Metisse kits will be compromised.
:o this is gonna get interesting!!!
Also you lot certainly aren't metallurgists but thats also a problem,
I guess I have grown out of the "character" crap
Also you lot certainly aren't metallurgists but thats also a problem, myths are often far stronger in the marketplace than facts. Some people even think Maico's are better than CZ's FFS.I had a sneaking feeling that Cheapracers original post was a wind up and now I'm convinced. Offending particular brand loyalists and adding illinformed opinion into the mix backs my point.
You've got me wondering why you’re actually interested in VMX.
QuoteI thought they used 531?They do Tim but it's pretty hard to get Reynolds 531 here so 4130 or something close would be the logical alternatives.
Hi Mark ,
Good to hear from you ,
If you follow this forum for a while you will soon figure out those who;
makes things happen ,
watch things happen ,
and those who wonder what the f**k happened,
oh yes, and those angry old men who just want an arguement just for the hell of it .
those who know you well know where belong,
Bit of a hint Cheapracer.
It takes about 500 posts on this forum to figure out who you can piss off and get away with it.
Just a hint. :)
oh yes, and those angry old men who just want an arguement just for the hell of it .And the pedantic snobs that those angry old men just love to bait. ;D
i think 1020 DOM will be good . Polishing and plating should also be of an advantage , where you are .
Will you be looking at making fibre glass ass. , or polished Alu ?
How about Kevlar ? Its just , I am a bit scared of the fibre glass , since my new Metisse tank bubbled . It would also be a weight saving . When its painted you wouldnt know the difference .
Have I missed here something ? There is Cheapracer trying to make affordable parts and bikes.
So you have CNC milling and lathing equipment and a furnace for hardening metal?
Plus someone who knows how to use it?
don't see demand for 500 CZ mainshafts?My thoughts as well...Seeing that the CZ trans is one of the most bulletproof in the sport and with there still being shitloads of CZ spares available, I'd be channeling my engineering genius towards producing something that the market actually needs like CR Honda Elsinore gears and shafts or water pumps for poor African villages.
with there still being shitloads of CZ spares available,
Mark with all respect I find it best to talk to the right end of the bull.
Do you have a factory with this type of equipment and people who know how to use it? Can this please be an yes or no answer.
If your going to be making "bare as bone's" (no nickel) frame's to suit unit single beeza's at a good price i'd be interested down the track a little :)
Any other smart ass comments you need verified?Actually, you're doing alright on your own.... ::)
Actually, you're doing alright on your own.... ::)
Yes based on the MK111 metisse ! as a pre 70 scramber / street scrambler . :)
Anyways I think it is not appropriate to have the great debate about Cheapracers credentials on the forum, do that for yourself when you are placing an order.
I have original Ricky but still welcome an alternative Aussie produced Rickman frame, it will stir up some interest in a class that needs help. My suggestion is why not offer some frames for off road bikes first, it is far more achievable than doing the ADR thing and will give you promotion oif your product.
Got some interest with this thread Cheapracer. :)
Welcome Ji junior ;D
Mark good to see you are still with us,have you been on holiday or busy with work? Hows the hole nuke thing up there?
Mike
if you've got the resources and inclination
It's not like your asking for investors.
You still look ugly Mark....happy birthday.
Hey Mark,
How do you think it would work if you made some frames, fitted some 30 year old engines - Triumph, BSA, XT500, whatever you like, and registered it as a "historic vehicle" for the road in NSW. Do you think the RTA would know the difference?
I've always liked the idea of a Metisse roadie, maybe dirt track style?
What do you think?
Cheers,
Mark
Ji was just some poor guy who did a lot of stuff and tried to share some of it on this forum.Welcome Ji junior ;DI'm not actually sure what that means but if it's a slight on what I am doing then I would find that very disappointing as I see your from Kiwiland and of anyone in the world I have the utmost respect for it's Kiwis "having a go" at building stuff and have done some incredible and amazing stuff over the years.
it's attracted too many Bogans.
Over 3 years ago I decided to build the worlds best bargain race/track day car which you would think some would be excited about and most forums I mentioned in such as America were and extreme supportive and helpful.
But the Australian forums were this all over, "who the 'F' are you", "Prove it Wanker", etc etc - got so bad I just gave up and now my cars are going into production these next few months to fill American orders. However I want to race pre '65 myself in Oz so I will still endevour to market the kits here so I have people to compete against.
It’s not your own website ...
It’s not your own website ...
Have you noticed in the tech forum where I have been trying to help?
When I'm a member of a forum I like to get involved in all aspects of the forum and not just for my own purpose and that includes ironically just a few moments before I came here recommending to some people in an American forum contact you for '74 Maico frames.
Eh.
And you helped this thread how?
Do you have a comment on the Metisse idea or can you just go away?
when can we expect the project to get underway?
Mark good to see you are still with us,have you been on holiday or busy with work? Hows the hole nuke thing up there?
Mike
FFS, why do things always seem to degenerate into a battle of Ego's.
Move on or F off.
Mark, do you have a Mk3 available to build the frame jig and 'glass moulds from? What welding process do you intend to use, TIG, brazing or MIG ? Are the frames to be nickel plated?
Flowerpot Ben has mentioned Adrian Moss and Gerry Lisi, the guys already making Metisse replicas. Have you checked if either or both of them might have some kind of copyright on the design?
I thought Metisse kits were cheap anyway. You dont half get a lot of bike for the money. Isnt the basic kit about £1000? (plus bodywork) For what you get, that is a whole lot of craftman made bike.
quote author=cheapracer link=topic=18911.msg188999#msg188999 date=1305604406]
Also frame repair is realistic via tube sectioning or spa replacement.
Make the oil pic -up at the far rear or far front (except Norton) because the sumps have to go between and lower than the cradle .
I wouldnt worry to much about elegebility , because its not an excact copy of a Metisse , I guess you will have to create the "Mongrel" class anyway , therefore you make it as practical as you wish . This is only my opinion .
what would the price be on the frame, if it was to go ahead.
2) Would a pre 65 Yamaha twin in your frame be pre65 legal ?
1) Cheney made a frame for the dt1 250 did Metisse make one? 2) Would a pre 65 Yamaha twin in your frame be pre65 legal ?
Cheney made a frame for the dt1 250 did Metisse make one? 2They did indeed make a DT1 Metisse Iain but it's a totally different frame to the Mk3 that's being discussed here. It's a Mk4 Micro Metisse frame that was released in 1970 making it currently ineligible for pre '70. The Cheney was released in 1969, just slipping in. A similar Metisse roller can be bought on eBay for a couple of hundred dollars....look under Rickman Zundapp. Of course a DT1 and a Yamaha twin would fit in a Mk3 but it'd look a bit hokey...a big frame/little engine kind of thing. The correct frame to use for pre 65 for both engines would be the Mk3 Petite Metisse that the factory used for the Bultaco Metisse and later copied by Bultaco with their heavier but similar looking M11.
Dont quote me on that Cheap Racer , if its aimed to compete in VMX with Metisses in that era , I cant see that happen .
Mark, do you have a Mk3 available to build the frame jig and 'glass moulds from
I have a Mk111 available to get any measurement I need and I already bought some bodywork from Classic Motorcycle Fiberglass a couple of trips back to Oz so I'll just copy that.
if the side benefit of the project is to present the frames as a "cheap" pre '65 legal kit, they have to be build as close to a perfect replica of the original as possible or the rule Nazis will be all over it like a rugby scrum.
I'll do it the way I want to and if it's not viable for other VMX people thats cool, I'll still have my own to ride in the pre '65's and it will be legal.Mark, you still haven't really answered my questions as to whether you're jigging from a genuine frame, and which actual frame you'll be replicating. Doing it the way you want is fine but I for one don't want to buy a frame that's ineligible for the pre 65 class and I'll bet I'm not the only person thinking the same. If, as you say money isn't a problem, why not purchase a genuine (or Wasp/Gerry Lisi replica) Metisse frame to use as a basis for yours. If your frames aren't exact replicas, they'll be ineligible for every VMX class from pre 65-pre 90 and a potential market will be lost.
If your frames aren't exact replicas,
Before you mentioned picking up some 32mm 1020 DOM.... isnt that mild steel Mark?....
..I still think you should be making consumables.....seat bases for alot of bikes, airboxes .......the list goes on.....
I think you've addressed everyones concerns by not answering my questions.
I'm finished with this thread, it's gone into overtime. I'll return to it when I have something to show - predictable comments coming on that.Don't be like that Mark ;D . The open discussion and exchange of ideas and thoughts is the best way of making sure any possible production snags are addressed. I'd have thought that you'd welcome constructive critism and advice with open arms. We're merely trying to help you understand what's needed to produce the Metisse frame you propose properly. I'm trying to save you a lot of mucking around and guesswork with my jigging advice. With the pre '65 class being so closely monitored by many, including from within your own inner circle, I'd have thought that doing it correctly would have been a major priority. Unfortunately it appears that I'm wrong. It's beginning to appear that "looks close enough" is the standard you've set which is such a pity as it's actually easier to do it the right way than any other way. What a shame. :'(
My Chinese is not great but my English is
slanderish
1020 over here is mild steel Mark.....in China it might be chrome moly? ???