cheap Metisse frames kits - interest?

[Curly3]

FFS, why do things always seem to degenerate into a battle of Ego's.
Move on or F off.

[firko]

OK, Before this ends up in the dumgeon lets get back on topic.
 Mark, now that the forum members have given you a pretty good indication that we think your idea has some merit, you've shown us that you're in an engineering and financial position to build the Metisse frames and that you've got a workforce ready to jump at the first opportunity, when can we expect the project to get underway?

ps....What's an Asshat? I've never heard that one before.

[cheapracer]

when can we expect the project to get underway?

I'll get over to another town a half hour away this week and pick up if in stock or order some lengths to be made of 32mm 1020DOM.

I'll check some bend radius's tomorrow and if ok great if not I'll make some dies to suit. Having looked hard at the design it's pretty darn simple and has been built with simplicity and common sense with standard shop machinery befitting a small operation at that time.

[Marc.com]

Mark good to see you are still with us,have you been on holiday or busy with work? Hows the hole nuke thing up there?
Mike

We are confusing Marc's here, this one is Mike kindly asking after me, the long and the short is things are OK in Tokyo, not wonderous but further out of the shit all the time. I am in the Swiss alps at the moment so struggling with the food, or the freaking tasty bulk of it.

So back to the Rickman replica, seems to be a mountain of late model T100 engines in States at the moment which would give a cafe Rickman rep some cheap horses while still keeping the look.

[flower pot racing]

I thought Metisse kits were cheap anyway.  You dont half get a lot of bike for the money.  Isnt the basic kit about £1000?  (plus bodywork)  For what you get, that is a whole lot of craftman made bike.

Bodywork.....  £15 to £18 a panel.  That's pocket money surely?  And in any gel coat you care to mention (why make it in a base coat and paint it, I have never understood that, why not do it right in the first place......)

Petrol tank problems ~ yes a well known and well documented problem with the change in fuels.  New tanks are being made with resins that are ethanol resistant. I have had a couple of old ones fail.  You can line them to seal them or get a new one ~ about £110.  Again, I think that is bloody good value when you see the quality and work that is involved...  Or of course have an alloy one.

That said if they can be banged out for peanust in China and that is progress then so be it.  I do hope the bike isnt called a Metisse ~ I am sure that Mr Moss and Gerry Whatshisface will have something to say about that....!

There is not doubt that the Chinese are getting better at what they do and the is no way on earth that the prices can be competed with.

Everything else is made there ayway, so why not cheap 'classic' bikes.

And lastly if it means that more people can get in volved with our great hobby them so much the better.

I look forward to seeing the proto type.......

[crash n bern]

FFS, why do things always seem to degenerate into a battle of Ego's.
Move on or F off.

Probably because the majority of members are racers and have a pathological need to win or be the best.  Even though it comes across more as the behavior of old women.

Firko an Asshat is a politically correct way of saying arsehole.

[firko]

Mark, do you have a Mk3 available to build the frame jig and 'glass moulds from? What welding process do you intend to use, TIG, brazing or MIG ? Are the frames to be nickel plated?

Flowerpot Ben has mentioned Adrian Moss and Gerry Lisi, the guys already making Metisse replicas. Have you checked if either or both of them might have some kind of copyright on the design?

I totally understand that you've probably dismissed me as a doubting 'asshat' because of my cynical take on your idea but I'm honestly interested in seeing this come to a fruition. One of my true passions is to make the pre'65 class accessible to everyone, not just the leather patch elitists who seem to want to block any innovative thinking on increasing the classes support. If your concept can bring more people to what should be the sports showpiece class, you have my support.

[cheapracer]

Mark, do you have a Mk3 available to build the frame jig and 'glass moulds from? What welding process do you intend to use, TIG, brazing or MIG ? Are the frames to be nickel plated?

Flowerpot Ben has mentioned Adrian Moss and Gerry Lisi, the guys already making Metisse replicas. Have you checked if either or both of them might have some kind of copyright on the design?

I have a Mk111 available to get any measurement I need and I already bought some bodywork from Classic Motorcycle Fiberglass a couple of trips back to Oz so I'll just copy that.

Oddly enough TIG welders are a dime a dozen here, most people live in Hi-Rise apartments and there millions of miles of thin wall stainless steel hand and safety railings, every street in every industrial area has a couple of shops TIG'ing up railings. I had one guy stitching some uprights together for me last year and the work/welding was superb, as good as anything I've seen. No plating, my plan is if someone wants one I'll grab a bare frame before it gets the 600 mounts attached then that person will have to do his own mounts and plating/paint as required.

I will register the design in China and I currently have a business registered as Mongrel Motorworks so I have no problem calling them Mongrels. I notice theres a number of people making replicas so I doubt the design is under any IPR, most likely just the naming rights "Rickman", "Metisse", "McQueen" etc. are protected.

[cheapracer]

I thought Metisse kits were cheap anyway.  You dont half get a lot of bike for the money.  Isnt the basic kit about £1000?  (plus bodywork)  For what you get, that is a whole lot of craftman made bike.

We see vastly different, firstly $3 to $4000(?) Aus bucks was a lot of money to me not to mention that another problem is when you buy a frame for that much you tend to also spend accordingly in other areas to match resulting in one heavy investment overall. Another problem may be how you then ride that bike desperately worrying about scratching it tending to possibly "trailer princess" it instead. 

If you have a kit that costs say 1/3 to 1/2 that everything else will follow, you may not feel as much pressure on engine choice or detail presentation and you certainly won't feel the same pressure about looking after it on track - so in my mind the cost saving isn't just about the initial purchase of the frame, for many it makes the bike a more realistic race proposition and therefore fun.

Also frame repair is realistic via tube sectioning or spa replacement.

[cheapracer]

quote author=cheapracer link=topic=18911.msg188999#msg188999 date=1305604406]

Also frame repair is realistic via tube sectioning or spa replacement.

Thats good point cheap racer . Are going to use the frame as oil cooler ?
[/quote]

I was thinking about that last night actually and I figure that provision will have to be provided.

[cheapracer]

Make the oil pic -up at the far rear or far front (except Norton) because the sumps have to go between and lower than the cradle .

Yes thank you. I did the restorations/spannered at BJ's Bikes and Bit's British Bike Specialists for a number of years so can remember a few of the layouts. If it wasn't for the scotch inbetween I could remember them all but you got to live. 

[cheapracer]

I wouldnt worry to much about elegebility  , because its not an excact copy of a Metisse , I guess you will have to create the "Mongrel" class anyway  , therefore you make it as practical as you wish . This is only my opinion . 

I don't understand, it has to be an exact replica and if it's not an exact replica then it's not eligible for any class and the point is to bolster pre '65/70.

[SAABCOMBI]

what would the price be  on the frame, if it was to go ahead.

[cheapracer]

what would the price be  on the frame, if it was to go ahead.

I'm at the wrong end at the moment for that but pretty sure I can claim cheapest in the world right now.

While some see something else I only see steel and fiberglass and when I go to the steel shop they won't charge me any extra because a Metisse is being made from it.

[Iain Cameron]

Hi cheapracer been watching this thread with interest . as a Yamaha trajic I have 2 questions 1) Cheney made a frame for the dt1 250 did Metisse make one? 2) Would a pre 65 Yamaha twin in your frame be pre65 legal ? . thanks in advance  Iain