OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mick22 on August 12, 2009, 08:55:17 am
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Can someone explain to me how the rules for MX track design work ?? I admit my ignorance to these rules as I took along time out from MX and don't really know what happened.
My understanding was that at some time during the 90's that in Victoria (may have been oz wide but not sure)it was decided that there would only be doubles /triples /stutters etc in Supercross and that mx tracks would only have table tops and be a more natural layout. Is this right? I remember all the tracks I went to having the jumps changed to table tops.
I went to Broadford to practice on the weekend and the track has completely changed and has quads, doubles and a step up. At least a few years back you could still lap Broadford on a classic bike even though it wasn't Ideal but now its not even an option. Unfortunately during the morning a guy stuffed up the quads and ended up with a compound arm fracture so practice was stopped for a few hours. These sort of injuries seem a lot more common on these type of obsticles.
I know there is no "one track fits all" and I'm not having a sook, just interested in how the track rules / design process works
Have the rules changed ? Where are the rules ?
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It's the way tracks are going Mick. I went to a club day at Ravenswood on Sunday only to find the track with some new technical jump sections, and the track no longer flows. All they have done is make it faster for the pro's while the rest of us struggle. I only did practise & one lap of the first race, packed up & went home as it was no fun for me and that's why I ride bikes, for fun. Maybe I'm just a big sook, but did 100klms in the bush that same day and had a ball so the day was not lost. I watch a fair bit of motocross on pay TV, and don't see any of that type of stuff in either the European GP tracks or AMA tracks, They are all wide, hell fast and flowing. I'm a firm believer that clubs should make their tracks to suit clubman level riders. They are the ones which make up most of the numbers and if they have fun, don't crash and ride to the best of their ability, they'll come back and probably bring some mates. I know there's the debate about not improving if you're not challenged etc, but the young guns or truly serious guys who train heaps have acess to those kind of tracks anyway. Ski jumps, table tops, big berms no worries, not 3rd gear, half throttle, turn the bike in the air stuff, that is for supercross. The fast guys will be fast on any track.
Cheers,
K
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Could not possibly agree more with BigK's post.
We've been through this about 15 years ago - all of these club MX tracks became SX tracks, people got hurt and the punters stayed away.
Then we pulled our collective head in, made the tracks better for mortal riders, less people got hurt, and MX has been going through a boom time.
Now we seem keen to f$%k it all up again?
In both cases, the motivation seems to be a small but persistant and vocal minority of club members who want their little Johnny to be the next Reed/Stewart/Carmichael - the war cry is "But how will they be able to learn to ride the big tracks when their local track isn't a big track?". ::)
The words "Selfish" and "Short sighted" don't even come close to describing it.
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In both cases, the motivation seems to be a small but persistant and vocal minority of club members who want their little Johnny to be the next Reed/Stewart/Carmichael - the war cry is "But how will they be able to learn to ride the big tracks when their local track isn't a big track?". ::)
If that is the driving force then answer them, 'learn the same way Reed/Stewart/Carmichael and a host of other excellent riders learnt - get a private track and practice, practice, practice, the same track, the same stutters, the same whoops until they have technical excellence. And then go racing. Have good technique, have good fitness and the speed will come - not the other way around.'
I agree with all the points of the Big K and Nathan. Outdoor tracks should be fast and flowing, varied and close to natural terrain.
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That`s a real good question Mick, i was of the same understanding as you. But some of the tracks that i see are the complete opposite to that theory, they are full of doubles, quads and generally supercross style jumps.
For that same reason i have not renewed my membership at the Bacchus Marsh track as the track is not what it should be, it is an awesome venue but is full of supercross type jumps that you are hitting at motocross speed and that ends up in tears. There has been 4 air ambulances out of there since January but i`m told the track is ok. Go figure.
My opinion is that a lot of the people building these tracks just haven`t had the chance to ever ride on good motocross or supercross tracks that we rode on years ago, it looks like this new breed of track is here to stay until track requirements are in black and white. Some of the tracks are like replacing sugar in your coffee with sand, it just don`t work.
Just my thoughts in general and not throwing stones at just one club that i mentioned. Peter.
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interesting topic, most of the guys I work with are into dirtbikes, and all of us bar one aren't that keen on having our kids ride around on a modern MX track.
The one guy I know whose kids do race minis has told me of two or three pretty awful sounding prangs involving other kids at his local track. We're talking compound fractures and helicopter rides.
One of the main reasons i don't get to practice as much as I need is the lack of tracks within my limited ability. I was going to try one out at kenilworth tomorrow but I've been crook for the last few days and I'm still feel decidedly average so tomorrow looks like a no-go ::)
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I may have recounted this story before on these forums. An emergency meeting was called of the club to which I belonged at the time to discuss falling numbers in MX, I stood up and suggested that the mx tracks be eased off because many people (who had to go to work on Monday) were scared to ride them. The local hotshot crapped all over me in the meeting calling me all manner of things and finishing off with the obligatory: "who the f&^ck do you think you are?". Well at the time I was in with a shout of the regional enduro championship. Another enduro rider told him so and we (enduro riders) stood up and went to the pub.
He was warned. MX in that city is now dead.
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These modern four-bangers can't be helping things either. I flagged all day last weekend at a modern meet and left with a massive throbber (in my head, not my pants) from the constant barking of these despicable machines.
On a happier note though it was good to see a couple of B-graders running 1-2 on their 250 2t's. :)
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In alot of cases its about keeping the terminal speed / average speed down.
Probably doesnt effect the pro's that much , however in alot of cases it saves the average punter from themselves and signifigant injury.
This in effect transfers to the insurance liabilty associated with this type of pursuit.
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Probably doesnt effect the pro's that much ,
Agreed
however in alot of cases it saves the average punter from themselves and signifigant injury.
I don't think so. I think the average punter is in far more danger of hitting a jump with unintended speed, not being able to handle it and getting injured as a result. Remember, speed doesn't hurt. It's the sudden stop at the end.
BTW, what happened to Thumper Nats in Aus? That seemed a really good formula.
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Probably doesnt effect the pro's that much ,
Agreed
however in alot of cases it saves the average punter from themselves and signifigant injury.
I don't think so. I think the average punter is in far more danger of hitting a jump with unintended speed, not being able to handle it and getting injured as a result. Remember, speed doesn't hurt. It's the sudden stop at the end.
BTW, what happened to Thumper Nats in Aus? That seemed a really good formula.
The thumper nats were taking over by WEM and later squashed.
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Fast & flowing is way safer than medium fast & technical. Easier & more fun for the bulk of riders to commit to as well. Everyone can launch off a ski jump or negotiate a table top and have confidence doing it. Not everyone can time doubles, triples, stutters, step ups etc, and even the pro's get it wrong sometimes. It's almost always ugly.
K
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BigK
Have they changed Ravo since the Viper round ?
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Yeah, they put in a bunch of double & triple jumps <ducks>
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Unfortunatly in Modern MotoX the nuts are are running the nut house there are some really poorly designed tracks around these days and the amount of serious injury should be ringing alarm bells at MA but it appears it does'nt You have a situation where there is a bunch of officials all Licenced as per MA requirements that just dont have a clue and I believe that is where the problem lies,The guys that build these tracks dont know what there doing half the time and the MA guy that inspects the track does'nt know what he's doing so there is the recipe for the disasters that have happend and will continue to happen until MA snaps out of it,Everything that has been said on this thread is absolutely correct,Joe Average should be able to practice and race with out fear,I hate seeing riders end up in the ambulance and it's all very well saying that racing can be dangerous,however it is a lot more dangerous than it needs to be while the process is in place for the way these tracks are allowed to develop and be approved for racing,
I was present at the event in Qld that John Porter died at and it just should never have happend and there would have been far less chance had the track been designed in a more intelligent way,that is something I never want to witness again,I was a mini bike rider in the 70's and later a senior rider and I absolutely loved it you could confidently ride any where with out fear or concern a broken leg or arm every now and then but nothing like you see and hear of these days,I have son myself and I love that he is so into his cricket as there is no way I would like to see him go racing on the tracks that are presented these days,
The Thumper Nats formula was brilliant the tracks were a joy to ride and for the older racers thay could turn up and ride them and use there well honed experience and not there balls to ride them,It is a shame that the series is no longer around but at the Time that WEM took over they were getting bigger crowds to the Thumper Nats than they were getting to the Australian MX Championships which is probably not the way they wanted,then with the 4 strokes taking over as well I guess it was inevitable,I have often thought that there would be room to re introduce that series as a Vets and Evo Pre 85 style series,It was a great series and it appealed to spectators and the Industry as was evidenced by there support and lets face it there the competitors that actually pay to be involved in the sport,The Aust MX Championship series has developed well and that is were the more challenging and well designed tracks should be,
#8
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Spot on Number8, but how do we change this. Peter.
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Well,I am not sure you can the way I see it you have some people with experience that just basically get brain #*&%ed by these less experienced short sighted people that are effectivly new to the sport and are posssibly on some kind of power trip they are good at getting MA accreditation but lack experience that comes from seeing and doing over a long period,now I dont believe these newer poeple are all that way but some are and there the one;s that work there way up to a position that gives them this "power' and in most cases cease to listen to experienced people or wont seek out and find the help that they could use,to keep the sport Fun and safe as can possibly be,In saying that we do need newer people coming through but it appears that some just dont get it,and as soon as they get there "badge" they have all the answers and let's face it not even the experienced people have all the answers so there appears to be some kind of head trip involved for some,I may be wrong but how else do you explain the the concerns and complaints witnessed in this thread and it is something I hear often,
#8
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Spot on Number8, but how do we change this. Peter.
Why bother? My experience with some (plse note SOME) of the pussheads in MX is that all they care about is how they look good with the latest Oakleys etc. As #8 said the nuts are running the nuthouse. Can you tell I don't have much time for modern MX?
I reckon rekindling the Thumper Nats (I seem to started something by bringing them into the equation) would be a start. Any Sunday rider with a half decent bike should be OK to give it a blat.
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The way things are heading we will be battling to find a track to race the old bikes on soon.
Unfortunately the clubs have to cater for the majority of their members who are getting younger every year. I'm a member of Sporting at Barrabool and I have watched that track change over the last six or seven years, when I first joined, the bulk of the members were 30 + and the vets classes had a strong following, they even had an over 50's class. The track was a nice flowing natural terrain circuit and over time the younger kids joined up and wanted more jumps etc and they now have around four table tops a triple, stutters and I think two doubles and a step up, all of this in time has slowly pushed the older riders away or into retirement. The over 45's class now consists of three riders and not too many more in the over 40's This seems to be happening all over now, I noticed Wonthaggi now has two or three more jumps in it and now it looks like Ravenswood have done the same.
I am 48 and I found out in 06 after a big get of at Barrabool you don't bounce back like you did when you were 20, six broken ribs and a sholder blade in two pieces. And to try and push yourself at pace around the tracks the have designed for todays youth is crazy at the least, after all we do have to get up for work on Monday.
Rob.
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Yeah, they put in a bunch of double & triple jumps <ducks>
Another one of my Favs gone to sh*t . Not many left now >:(
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Yeah, they put in a bunch of double & triple jumps <ducks>
Another one of my Favs gone to sh*t . Not many left now >:(
I was pulling the piss MM. I haven't a clue.
Viper, what do you need for an classic MX course (include modern enduro bikes too. Most riders would love to have a go)? Just an open and preferably undulating field. Most farmers (if we exclude the insurance factor) are quite happy to let you use their field for a day twice a year. This business of permanant MX tracks is, IMO, bollocks.
Sat morning the organising committee turn up with some stakes, tape and mallets and walk around the field. Sunday you race. Easy.
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........... The track was a nice flowing natural terrain circuit and over time the younger kids joined up and wanted more jumps etc and they now have around four table tops a triple, stutters and I think two doubles and a step up, all of this in time has slowly pushed the older riders away or into retirement. ..................
Rob.
G'day Rob,,
has Barrabool changed much since last year?
i love this track its what got me into viper back in '03 and what has bought me out for a fix this weekend. i too hate the Super X style of tracks, Wonthaggi is home track for me and i feel it has too many of the wrong kind of jumps (read Cliff face walls) what happened to drop offs and jumps that sent you low and long. they now put you in orbit with the Hubble !
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I have tried in the last 8 months to set up a motorcycle park/facility around where i live, purely due to there being not many places you can take your family and enjoy a day of riding like we all used to do. Believe it or not all the obstacles that i thought would give me problems were easily overcome, the one stumbling block and i`m sure you all know the answer already was insurance.
The councils in this area agreed on principal, land was out there but no insurance means no tracks. My insurance broker advised me he could insure every aspect of this park except for negligence, that word covers anything you could dream of including a rock that could have been moved off the track before i hit it. Now i am suing you. Negligence is the grey area in the whole deal.
The plan was for no racing at the venue just pure old fun on 3 seperate tracks to suit the riders ability/age etc. I struggle to watch my 6 year old riding out there with the big bikes but he loves the bikes, i know of many people that are in the same boat, bikes in the shed but no where safe and easy to ride. Peter.
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Billet,
Have you considerd forming your own club and becoming MA affiliated and there for coverd,all the private promoters do this so they can be coverd,it just means everybody needs a one day licence to ride there,but a small price to pay to get you riding at a decent facility
#8
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G'day Hoony,
I haven't been down there since the back to Barrabool weekend and even then I only walked the main track, I spent most of the time on the top grass section of the Oceiana track jetting my bike.
What I did notice was the small jump in the back left corner of the track is now a small table top and the step up in the right hand front corner is now two doubles, and there's an extra jump in the middle straight. But that could all have changed by now.
Rob.
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I'm sure at some stage they brought in regs for MX tracks, because I remember within a few months that all the Vic tracks were altered. They had maximun length for straights which meant Broadford, Monza & Bararbool all had to shorten their start straights, no jump allowed between the start gate and turn one, no doubles, maximum size for table tops etc etc.
It was all done at the time because of the number of injuries that were happening... I can't beleive as a sport we have learnt nothing from our history and appear to be making the same mistakes again!!
On the weekend at Broadford most of the riders were young blokes that by the look of their bikes were currently racing.... most were struggling with the doubles with many still rolling them, what hope has a club rider got. Not forgetting there are about 50 clubbies for every one gun rider ::)
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Billet,
Have you considerd forming your own club and becoming MA affiliated and there for coverd,all the private promoters do this so they can be coverd,it just means everybody needs a one day licence to ride there,but a small price to pay to get you riding at a decent facility
#8
Number8,
this was going to be next on the agenda, just wasn`t sure how complicated this way is going to be. Peter.
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Billet,
Give MAV a call they should assist,
#8
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Billet,
Have you considerd forming your own club and becoming MA affiliated and there for coverd,all the private promoters do this so they can be coverd,it just means everybody needs a one day licence to ride there,but a small price to pay to get you riding at a decent facility
#8
That's a good suggestion. It will also help to weed out the fuktards and dipshets - from what I've been hearing from riding parks all over the country, the idiocy from the 'once a month' heros is the hardest thing to deal with - the real racers (of all abilities) are far easier to get along with.
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Viper, what do you need for an classic MX course (include modern enduro bikes too. Most riders would love to have a go)? Just an open and preferably undulating field. Most farmers (if we exclude the insurance factor) are quite happy to let you use their field for a day twice a year. This business of permanant MX tracks is, IMO, bollocks.
Sat morning the organising committee turn up with some stakes, tape and mallets and walk around the field. Sunday you race. Easy.
Tim, the ironic thing is that maybe twice a year we would run a grass track event such as you described at Sporting, either on the land adjacent to the track or at a members donated farm land. And the younger riders who wanted all the modern jumps etc thought it was fantastic and loved it and couldn't wait for the next one! It also attracted the older riders back for the day and we all had a great time.
Rob.
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I thought doubles & stutters, as apposed to whoops, were illegal on MX tracks?
We had a lot of hoops to jump through to get our track signed off yet I see so many tracks with stutters now.
I think once they're signed off it's open slather.
Just would hate to have a bad accident, for all reasons, to find out you're not covered because of an illegal jump.
You are not allowed to have single car tyres they must be bound to another, to prevent them being easily dislodged and become an obstacle on the track or rolling down hills.
Not allowed truck or tractor tyres anymore but I still see these everywhere too.
I agree that Viper friendly tracks are disappearing but there's not much we can do about it, we are not the future. More over the past.
Viper666
Have a beer and chill
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Yes Brent, they've changed the track since VIPER, for the worst in my opinion. It helped the pro's by about 4 seconds per lap, but stuffed it for the majority in my opinion. But then they reckon I'm just a fat old sook. It certainly is not the Ravenswood of old.
Cheers,
K
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If you guys are so worried to get on a modern MX track ther is always enduro cross. These events are run on natural terain or at least minimal jumps. They run a series in north NSW & lots of outher places as well. I am NOT dissagreing with the fact that a lot of tracks are getting a little over the top. Just there are outher events out there. Not just MX. Or as some people are pushing SX.
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rode manjimup this year on a pre 75 at the manjimup 15000. Set up for modern bikes, but still rideable on a classic. The club even holds an event there each year and is hard, but damn the smile is big
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I'm with you Mick, the good guys will go fast anywhere but at club events the tracks need to cater for club riders. They are the ones who make up the bulk. I have given up trying to explain to some people that fast flowing tracks dont get as rough. Hard braking, hard accelerating makes holes. I still get to ride the pro class at club days and I am there to enjoy myself but at an earlier club day went home after the first races because I found it dangerous and awkward to ride. Every club day seems to get at least 1 big ambo ride. I went to ravo on Sunday to watch and was asked a couple of times what I thought of the track. Now I know I am old and f@#ked but in 1977 you didnt turn at the top of the hill but kept going until where the tabletop is now before turning down hill and the back of the track had a big sweeper down hill to the creek. To launch over the creek took commitment as did the down hill sweeper. Fast guys were awesome but everybody could have a crack at it. 2nd gear was used maybe twice a lap and crowds were 5 deep to watch you coming out of the creek. Sure the track would get bloody rough but not like today. To me that was a race track. 5 or 6 gears in a gearbox and get to use em all.
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In days gone past if you made a mistake you lost time or your position. These days you make a mistake you're a good chance of losing limb or life.......
Can't remember who said it but it fits..... :-\
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mx tracks in central qld are all shit. only get to 4th gear for 5 sec, no flow at all. tight with stupid tabletops and double jumps everywhere. i race vets class and 6 riders i personally know stopped racing because its too risky. i raced from 79 to 84 and honestly dont remember many accidents. now when an accident occurs its quite severe. the reason i like vmx is that the racing is close and your thinking about racing the other riders, not racing against a track and thinking about the track.
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Hi All,
Speaking as a MA licensed Venue Inspector,On an MX track multiple Jumps (Double Jumps and triple jumps etc) are illegal, stutters are not but must be no more then 600 mm high with a minimum distance between of 3 metres alot of tracks have jumps that are illegal and dangerous but for some reason they keep getting passed. Jumps are not allowed to be more than 3 mts high and all bridges are to be removed after 31 dec 2008, The track i raced on over the weekend had both but was passed for a Australian Championship. If your track has what you think is illegal sections why not ask MA to explain why it is licenced. In Tasmania our tracks are all licensed to the MA Venue Standards why not the rest of Australia.
Fatboy
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the tracks need to cater for club riders. They are the ones who make up the bulk.
Ziggactly! Another tale from when I was young, quick and foolish: we had a problem with falling numbers in enduros (actually more like hare scrambles) in Cape Town. Entries were down to 60-70 and you'd expect 40 to finish. The courses were more like extreme enduros than enduros or hare scrambles. Guys were tired of spending 500 bucks on Monday and the sport was in trouble. Two of us decided we'd lay out a course and the criterea was a wanked out XT500 would be able to get around it. The club did the admin and spread the word. The event drew 140 entries. The club smiled, the riders smiled and the same old guys won.
Easy courses make for good fun and good racing.
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i can see a few valid points here i race modern mx as well as viper an i recon that the line between mx and sx needs to be more bold really what started the whole sxerising of mx tracks was arena cross being a combo of the two didnt help half the problem is that theres too many parents who want there kids to be the next rc or chad reed as nathan said but what people have to realise is that every one starts riding from the basics and there are guys that just want to have fun so changing every known track to virtually a sx track isnt helping any one they do need some of it but just about every track in victoria is now like this theres nothing that flows any more except for barrabool and mabye wonthagi if people want a few tracks more sxish that ok but set it up properly for gods sake the only club in vic that has built a decent sx/mx style track that i recon has any sort of decent flow would have to be bacchus marsh because the have sat down and made the layout suit the jumps instead of just adding a double or set of stutters here and there so people have got to wake up and decide what they want. :-\
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Hi All,
Speaking as a MA licensed Venue Inspector,On an MX track multiple Jumps (Double Jumps and triple jumps etc) are illegal, stutters are not but must be no more then 600 mm high with a minimum distance between of 3 metres alot of tracks have jumps that are illegal and dangerous but for some reason they keep getting passed. Jumps are not allowed to be more than 3 mts high and all bridges are to be removed after 31 dec 2008, The track i raced on over the weekend had both but was passed for a Australian Championship. If your track has what you think is illegal sections why not ask MA to explain why it is licenced. In Tasmania our tracks are all licensed to the MA Venue Standards why not the rest of Australia.
Fatboy
I would be interested in hearing exactly which parts of the track you are refering to,if it is Conondale you are refering to quite obviously there is a bridge but I fail to see why that would be an issue far better to have that bridge there than have spectators trying to cross the track while the racing is on and 3m jumps? are you mistaking "Drunks Hill" as jump,It's a natural terrain part of the track,
#8
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I love modern doubles as long as I am spectating.... watching the first 85cc practice of the day is usually a thriller. Supercross jumps made practice usually more interesting than the race.
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Fatboy,
Bridges are allowed if they have engineering certification relating to the structural integrity. A man made jump in excess of 3 metres in height is bloody high. A natural jump with an approach height of 3 metres is a climb...........
The fact remains that the classic racing scene is in the minority and we all had our day in the sun way back when. Tracks are designed to reflect the wishes of the majority. The fact that I hate them doesn't send me into a frenzy of spit and venom directed towards the now generation of mx administrators. If I want to ride without having lifted a finger towards the organisation of the meeting, I ride and shut up. Even with the thought that the obstacles that give me the s*%$s were created by man with a dozer and can also be removed with a dozer and then replaced with a dozer etc etc. ;)
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In days gone past if you made a mistake you lost time or your position. These days you make a mistake you're a good chance of losing limb or life.......
Can't remember who said it but it fits..... :-\
The above quote is very true,
talking about our local track earlier on in this discussion regarding safety of the track, jumps etc. this track has just moved to the top of the list regarding injuries and worse. On the 2nd of August there was the normal club meeting with yet another severe crash on the same jump as the previous month this being the finish line jump, the young guy who crashed this time is the 23yr old son of a person who i know thru business.
The rider suffered major head trauma and was placed into an induced coma at the track then airlifted from the track to hospital (the same with the rider the previous month, and another the month before that) sadly he passed away last night.
I believe now the shite will hit the fan and these tracks will get a wake up call or at least i hope they do. Regards Peter.
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Fatboy,
Where can I find a copy of the track regs? or are they just guidelines issued to the track inspectors? and do the track regs get set by MA or the LCB?
Tracks are designed to reflect the wishes of the majority.
Unfortunately I think in this case it is the exact opposite, the tracks are being built to suit the wishes of an influencial minority.
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In days gone past if you made a mistake you lost time or your position. These days you make a mistake you're a good chance of losing limb or life.......
Can't remember who said it but it fits..... :-\
The above quote is very true,
talking about our local track earlier on in this discussion regarding safety of the track, jumps etc. this track has just moved to the top of the list regarding injuries and worse. On the 2nd of August there was the normal club meeting with yet another severe crash on the same jump as the previous month this being the finish line jump, the young guy who crashed this time is the 23yr old son of a person who i know thru business.
The rider suffered major head trauma and was placed into an induced coma at the track then airlifted from the track to hospital (the same with the rider the previous month, and another the month before that) sadly he passed away last night.
I believe now the shite will hit the fan and these tracks will get a wake up call or at least i hope they do. Regards Peter.
Mate thats incredibly sad.Condolences to the family.
Its possible that the track will be closed at least for a period until the all shit that will now follow is sorted.
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I doubt it motomaniac as i believe the clubs thoughts are as per normal, it`s not the tracks fault. 1 broken back and 3 air ambulances since January 09, amazing how many bad riders there must be. The lights are on but nobodys home. Peter.
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I doubt it motomaniac as i believe the clubs thoughts are as per normal, it`s not the tracks fault. 1 broken back and 3 air ambulances since January 09, amazing how many bad riders there must be. The lights are on but nobodys home. Peter.
Down here when something like this happens the Seaford track gets closed , insurance inspectors come and everything waits for the all clear or track alterations to be made as perscribed by them.????
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Billet YZ,
What track is that?
As a YZ fan, do you know where I can find a 400E? Not of the yellow persuasion????
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I spoke to the MAV office and got the following info-
MAV sets the rules for MX tracks in Vic.
Doubles are banned on MX tracks
MAV is responsible for inspecting and licencing MX tracks
MAV's own MX track at Broadford has several sets of doubles on it
???????????????????
WTF is going on ?
I guess we can look forward to paying $1000 a year for a licence in the near future. Who is going to insure an organisation that can't even follow its own safety rules.
It will be a open and shut case for someone to sue them if they get injured on a track that they have licenced and it doesn't meet their own rules
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Billet YZ,
What track is that?
As a YZ fan, do you know where I can find a 400E? Not of the yellow persuasion????
The track is Bacchus Marsh Victoria, sorry can`t help you with the YZ but will keep it in mind. Peter.
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I spoke to the MAV office and got the following info-
MAV sets the rules for MX tracks in Vic.
Doubles are banned on MX tracks
MAV is responsible for inspecting and licencing MX tracks
MAV's own MX track at Broadford has several sets of doubles on it
???????????????????
WTF is going on ?
I guess we can look forward to paying $1000 a year for a licence in the near future. Who is going to insure an organisation that can't even follow its own safety rules.
It will be a open and shut case for someone to sue them if they get injured on a track that they have licenced and it doesn't meet their own rules
G`day Mick,
sounds like a can of worms, they need to follow their own rules if they expect all the clubs to do so. Peter.
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I spoke to the MAV office and got the following info-
MAV sets the rules for MX tracks in Vic.
Doubles are banned on MX tracks
MAV is responsible for inspecting and licencing MX tracks
MAV's own MX track at Broadford has several sets of doubles on it
???????????????????
WTF is going on ?
I guess we can look forward to paying $1000 a year for a licence in the near future. Who is going to insure an organisation that can't even follow its own safety rules.
It will be a open and shut case for someone to sue them if they get injured on a track that they have licenced and it doesn't meet their own rules
The Seaford track isn't under the MAV as far as I know its a privately run track with its own insurance .Its inspected regularly - people still egt hurt of course.
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Bacchus Marsh is a non MA affiliated track I believe, may be wrong though. The doubles at Broadford may be just over the distance limit to not be classed as doubles. I went to a track once which clearly had a couple of sets of doubles, and even though they were complained about by the majority, they stayed and were allowed . They were 5cm over the maximum allowed distance to be classed as a double jump!
K
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Fatboy
You described whoops, not stutters, which are allowed as you said are two or more rounded obstacles with max height 0.6m with a minimum distance of crests of 3m & maximum of 6m ie you can have 3 rounded obstacless in a whoop. Stutters are two or more obstacles with max height 1.0m with a minimum distance of peaks of 1m & maximum of 3m.
Other deffinitions
A table top is a jump with a flat surface, min length 3m, max 18m (Already stated but it leads into the next one)
Multiple jumps (Doubles) An obstacle consisting of 2 to a max of 4 "jumps" within 10 metres of the preceding "jump" on a straight section of the course. It is not necessary to deem that the "jumps" may be able to be jumped singly or as a set. (10m from take off points or from landing to take off?)
With the bridges apart from the engineers report they must have suitable barriers in place to prevent machines, riders & debris from falling onto the track surface below.
I have a copy, can't you guess, of the rules in PDF. They are just about to be revised but if anyone wants a copy, PM me with an eamil address and I'll send you a copy.
Viper666
PS Bacchuss Marsh went black a couple of years ago but an anomaly means you can have MAV sanctioned coaching course etc. there but not race.
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Jumps are not allowed to be more than 3 mts high and all bridges are to be removed after 31 dec 2008, The track i raced on over the weekend had both but was passed for a Australian Championship.
If your talking about the nats track.
Conondale doesn't have bridges, it has tunnels.
Spectators is a natural hill.
I can't believe conondale was brought up in this thread ???
Cheers
Noel
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Hi Noel and 8,
firstly I think this is one of the best tracks I have ever raced on and I am not bagging it what I am talking about is the definations of Jumps, whoops,stutters and multiples tunnel or bridge the defination we got of the tunnel/bridge at Penguin MX track in Tas exactly the same as conndales was from Ma that it was to be removed. I think it would be hard to find an engineer to say thast a spectator tunnel/bridge is completly safe from any accidents. Broadford also has a tunnel/bridge it will be interesting to see if that has been closed..
In my oppion Natural terran or not Drunks is a step up jump which is perfectly legal and spectator jump is a big jump that would be between 4 mts and 5 mts high making it illegal but I think that it is way safer than other tracks with doubles and triples that I have raced.
Just because a track is classed natural terran dose not exclude it from the rules to do with Jumps etc
I am not picking on one track but clearly trying to decifer what is happening with our tracks in Australia making them hard to ride can only make for riders not coming or more injurys when they do come to race.
Track venue standards are avaliable from your SCBs or from MA.
Please dont get mad at me for having an oppion weather I am right or wrong I had a lot of fun at Connidale and all thanks to the QVMX and Sunshine coast clubs.
Fatboy
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MAV's own MX track at Broadford has several sets of doubles on it
Fug me. For the "Bike Bonanza" They had:
Two consecutive step-ups
a set of quads
and a "killer" tabletop with a knife-edge landing ramp that meant if you didn't clear it properly you would either a. flat land on the far side of the jump or b. flat land on the up side of the tabletop before it decended down again. I've never seen another tabletop like this baby in all my years.
Mind you this was all laid on for "A fun day out"
After doing approx four laps I marched myself off to have a heated debate with the MA/Organising commitee who basically said "stiff shit"
I went on to explain that if this was a race meeting, I'd be entited to get my money back
Same reaction "stiff shit"
After leaving this heated discussion I was greeted with the news that Gator had totalled himself on said tabletop.
Going by the press afterwards, everyone had a ball....... >:(
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Hi Noel and 8,
firstly I think this is one of the best tracks I have ever raced on and I am not bagging it what I am talking about is the definations of Jumps, whoops,stutters and multiples tunnel or bridge the defination we got of the tunnel/bridge at Penguin MX track in Tas exactly the same as conndales was from Ma that it was to be removed. I think it would be hard to find an engineer to say thast a spectator tunnel/bridge is completly safe from any accidents. Broadford also has a tunnel/bridge it will be interesting to see if that has been closed..
In my oppion Natural terran or not Drunks is a step up jump which is perfectly legal and spectator jump is a big jump that would be between 4 mts and 5 mts high making it illegal but I think that it is way safer than other tracks with doubles and triples that I have raced.
Just because a track is classed natural terran dose not exclude it from the rules to do with Jumps etc
I am not picking on one track but clearly trying to decifer what is happening with our tracks in Australia making them hard to ride can only make for riders not coming or more injurys when they do come to race.
Your comments regarding Connondale are so far wide of the mark it's not funny,and unfortunatly your comments would put you in the catergory that I first outlined in my first post,I can understand where a tunnel or Bridge could be a problem where you actually ride through them at speed but the example that is in place at Connondale doesn't fit into that catergory, and as far as "Drunks" it's a hill and has been that way for the 32 years that I have been riding there? and it would be a real stretch to interprete that as a jump of 4-5m,While you are entitled to your opinion your interpretation of what you saw in front of you on the day is wrong,and this is where the problems arise as a track inspector you should display enough knowledge and experience to know that that track was well designed and safe as it is has been for a very long time,and history shows that.Whats happening with our tracks in Australia is most of them are being built and designed by idiots and inspected by idiots?
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I'm getting the feeling that we're no longer allowed to say what we think of anything if it somehow has anything to do with The Nats, Connondale or anything else being added to the taboo list.... :-\ How about some of you others getting a grip? >:(
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I'm getting the feeling that we're no longer allowed to say what we think of anything if it somehow has anything to do with The Nats, Connondale or anything else being added to the taboo list.... :-\ How about some of you others getting a grip? >:(
Every body is entitled to an opinion,there like assholes every bodies got one,and no Connondale is not exempt from criticism,if it were deserved the bottom line is that was a safe track,and would have complied with MA requirements fully unlike some,and should not be compared to other potential death traps that are around and causing very serious injury,there is absolutely no comparison.
#8
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414 you can and do say anything you like over & over again.
Funny I got the impression from you and motomaniac that everything VMX was fantastic in Victoria, now were told the tracks are no good and MA have to run the Nats for you. Even better now that protesting anything is BS you can now ride your EVO in another class ;).
Cheers
Noel
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Just received a copy of the latest "Venue Standards" from MAV which despite what they told me on the phone is a MA document.
Motocross
4.4.8 Obstacles
4.4.8.1 Jumps:
a) There will be no multiple jumps
b) Jumps should not exceed 3m in height
c) When approving jumps consideration must be given to the age and ability of competitors
4.4.8.2 Table Top Jumps:
An obsticle with a flat surfacewith a minimum length of 3 metres and a maximum length of 18metres
4.4.8.3 Whoop Section: Two or more rounded obsticles with a maximum height of 0.6 metres, a minimum distance between crests of 3 metres and a maximum distance between crests of 6 metres
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I can't believe conondale was brought up in this thread
Cheers
Noel
I cant beleive you could put this in people were having a disscussion about the safty of tracks
and becuase conodale was brought up you post shit like this.
Ma is the controling body its up to them who runs a meeting we have no say in what they do
so stop bashing victoria and its people and forking grow up.
The way people are acting on this forum its a wonder the sport is still going.
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Broadford also has a tunnel/bridge it will be interesting to see if that has been closed..
One has been cut out of the layout and the remaining tunnel has been blocked off
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I cant beleive you could put this in people were having a disscussion about the safty of tracks
and becuase conodale was brought up you post shit like this.
Yeh your right this is an important subject and that was a thow back to another thread.
All yours, hope you have a win
Cheers
Noel
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READING THIS THREAD--and thinking (which always gets me in trouble)--are we just a little luckier here in the N.E. area of the USA- ??--after 42 years of racing-now riding--i can speak with a little knowledge (thinking)--have seen this evolve from grass tracks/natural tracks to the crap that is out there today--this being my first year of retirement (from work)--i have been attending more than the normal amount of events and have found that where in the past some of the modern tracks had man made junk that you could ride /or roll--but now it seems if you try to roll a large double some yahoo is gonna jump over you--so i think i will do these doubles--riding pre 1975 125/100s mind you---( 14 year old mind in a 63 year old body)--so i man up and start doing the doubles--result--wrecked rear hubs--go to more modern solid type hubs ( not sure of the legal aspect--but my safty)-wrecked internals in the motor--and most of our events have modern support classes--(another issue)--but we have a choice here--our main pre 75 ORG.--has in the past few years started a trend of going back to natural grass tracks-last week with another ORG we had a event--vintage evo modern held at SOUTHWICK 338 on the pro-national track--all natural and all SAND--to my knowledge the ambulance never moved all day--the event at BROOME TIOGA in NY which was a AHRMA NAT..for the pre 1975 bikes was held on a great natural grass track using their modern starting gate--and then going off the track up the hill above for the grass track--ambulance parked all day !!--earlier in the year a regional event at a very wet and muddy LAWTON PA--PART#1
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PART#2-same deal--ambulance parked all day---SO i have made the choice that if the track is such that i feel that i can not ride it and enjoy it then i will go elsewhere--we have three AHRMA NE events left this year--one is an all natural track event put on by the BEAR CREEK RIDERS (was home to the world enduro)--another back in LAWTON PA and one more at BT again on the natural grass track--there are one or two tracks in the area that are for modern racing but have a vintage/evo class--that can be ridden safely on a vinatge (pre 75) bike--careful in practice as they are not seperated--i guess we have more choices here??--but my money is gonna follow the tracks that give me a safe place to ride my pre 75 stuff--and the real mind changer--(wished i knew how to post pictures)-was going on a website of a local track and seeing the new graphics that a guy had made for his modern bike--he had taken his x-rays from the last big get off and had them made into a set of graphics--and wanted the people looking at the pictures to see if they could count all the PINS and SCREWS in HIM ???--so i know what i am gonna do--if its not grass/natural or safe--then its not for me---but we have our winter coming so we have our ice racing---no worry of jumps there--have a friend in BRISBANE-maybe i can talk DOC into posting those GRAPHICS--thanks for the time--and i have my answer !! cheers as you would say--buzzymx45
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the Xray machine as referred to in above post ;)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a205/Doctor_Suzuki/DSC01346.jpg)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a205/Doctor_Suzuki/DSC01347.jpg)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a205/Doctor_Suzuki/DSC01348.jpg)
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Funny I got the impression from you and motomaniac that everything VMX was fantastic in Victoria, now were told the tracks are no good and MA have to run the Nats for you. Even better now that protesting anything is BS you can now ride your EVO in another class ;).
I never claimed the tracks were perfect here. I said the racing is. ;D We have bigger classes, happier riders and more of them. So there. ;)
As it stands fella I think protesting someone over a set of forks and bar clamps is the type of crap I've come to expect from a lot of you people here. Utter and complete bullshit. Especially when a person has driven 2000km's to compete in an event and then be liabled a cheat!
As for the not being able to ride an Evo bike in pre-85........
please quote this passage to me from the GCR's
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Yeah, yeah, I'm sending the thread sideways. Big deal!
I just can't get over this whole protesting business. In racing motocross. Of any sort.
I can sort of understand protesting if someone was passed under a yellow flag or kicked off their bike (they probably deserved it) but over a machine technicallity it just leaves me floored! :(
2mm this, rubber that, fuel tank off of this, can't ride this bike in that. It's just all so petty.
Can you imagine what the next set of Nats will be like after this? You'll be lucky if there's no less than three assualts and the riot squad called.
These guys protesting over this shit should be thrown into a Kings Cross Lezzo bikie cess-pit........ :-[
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Sheesh! How can we possibly go from talking about tracks to protests at the Nats? Back to track safety etc, it's been an interesting read so far. I like the X-Ray graphics too - yow!
As far as tracks go, I am of the opinion it's both the minority of influential members who want to give their kids the right grounding, BUT also the young kids for whom riding a dirtbike now is BIG jumps. You only have to watch Youtube to see that.
I totally agree regarding the fact that natural terrain tracks are safer, more fun and more rewarding, especially for gumbies like me. Sadly in Australia we don't have a lot of tracks, and those we do have need to deliver for a small number of people. But I think clubs would be surprised at the response from riders if they made their tracks a bit more general purpose.
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Doc, that x-ray YZF is one cool bike! How'd the dude know that x-rays would make for some very arty graphics??? He should market them they look that good.
Re big jumps, well, we all know the ACT track now has them, as do many club MX tracks now. And while i don't do em much justice, its clear it took all of one rec ride day for most of the other club members (yes, the younger ones particularly), to take to em like ducks to water. Every event, I watch em fly over one then another then another. They never come off, never look scared, never look out of control, and really just makes you wonder what all the fuss is about. Each tabletop also has a small rise or dip two thirds along for slow coaches like me, to allow for a softer landing if you don't go the whole distance, so they're safe as really. Just not that easy if on old bike.
The worst thing about it all to me is that so much time in the air means you're not accelerating. So average lap times have come down I suspect....and its harder to pass, once everyone jumps them the whole distance.
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The other interesting aspect of the Track design and construction,is that some of the younger riders have become very skilled the ones that have'nt been seriously hurt that is,however there race skills have sufferd badly things like good line selection,race craft and even the ability to ride around off camber turns is disapearing and this is a shame,
I just recenctly witnessed at the last Round of the Aust Mx Championships another alarming crash in the Pro lites of the start they enter the first turn then travel down about 20-30m and into a 2 stage long table top it was one of the most spectacular jumps I have ever seen with riders 4-5m in the air,but to have 40+ riders hitting it after the first turn was a recipie for disaster and unfortunatly it happend in the last Moto and Luke George the 08 Champion went down hard after he either clipped some one or some one clipped him in the air it was not a good look for the sport as he lay on the track motionless,he was taken to Hospital and later Air lifted to another Hospital and put in an induced coma,he has since come out of it and I hope that all is well for him and his family,The point is there was nothing wrong with the jump it was just in the wrong spot,I would like to think that if the lay out of this track was thought out a bit better the accident of this nature could have been minimised,and If some one with the right experience had been involved with it's lay out and construction,then I would hope once again that the possble dangers could have once again been minimised,Then the last part of the eqation is a MA track inspector with enough knowledge to look at the big picture and make the hard decisions where necesary,to minimise the possibilities of what happend at this venue happening again,It's been said a zillion times "Racing is Dangerous" but collectivly let's not make it any more dangerous than it needs to be.
The other problem for Pro and want to be Pro's is that a lot are being hurt on private practice tracks here and overseas ,that they are training on as they try to develop ther skills to handle The Jump fest tracks that are so prominate these days,whats the answer I am not sure but I guess if the race tracks were calmed down there would not be a need to practice bigger and longer jumping technics?
#8
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I guess my answer is motocross is motocross and SX is SX.
If they are putting SX type obstacles on MX tracks why do they have a seperate licence endorsement for SX.
If young blokes want the challenge of a more technical track with bigger jumps and gaps to clear thats fine by me, but there is already a place for it - SX. Why stuff up the existing MX tracks so they end up being neither one thing or the other.
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Bigger jumps have also lead to killing off our local classics. i took my old girl out to our club practice track the other day, did one lap, rattle myself and bike to death, parked it and jumped back on the 07 YZ, which was like being on a armchair after the previous lap.
I hope we go back to offering grass track and natural terrain with maybe a drop off or bump jump. I cant think aa sain person here that would bring out there classic to kill it on a modern cut track, its just not worth it so they get parked. mine is. :'(
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MAV's own MX track at Broadford has several sets of doubles on it
After leaving this heated discussion I was greeted with the news that Gator had totalled himself on said tabletop.
Going by the press afterwards, everyone had a ball....... >:([/color]
Thats Gator always taking one for the team .... ( like the time he did the fatty)
GAtors is it on you tube yet ?? ?
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I guess my answer is motocross is motocross and SX is SX.
If they are putting SX type obstacles on MX tracks why do they have a seperate licence endorsement for SX.
If young blokes want the challenge of a more technical track with bigger jumps and gaps to clear thats fine by me, but there is already a place for it - SX. Why stuff up the existing MX tracks so they end up being neither one thing or the other.
Bloody good point .The seperate SX licence was a great idea but what is the point if the regular outdoor tracks have the same obstacles.
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Track safety is a given.
I cop a lot of criticism/flak/shit over Monza. Newsflash, I didn't design or build it. That said I understand where some of you are coming from. But, and that's a big BUT (Not mine yet), no matter how bad or good a track is, whether it's wet or dusty, rutted or smooth, big jumps/no jumps, off camber corners or berms. Eveyone has the choice of riding or not, there is no rule that says you have to clear or even attempt to clear a jump, you should ride to YOUR ability. For fug sake stop whinging and just fuging ride or sit and watch with a beer or the poison of your choosing. No track is ever going to be perfect for our bikes/sport or indeed everyone.
For instance the jumps that most of youse are going on about, I LOVE, but I cant ride round an off camber corner (Can't ride out of sight on a dark night). Do you hear me crapping on about banning them? NO! Come to think of it I'm no good at ssssttttuuuuuttttteeeeerrrrrsssss/whoops, sandy sections, ruts, corners of any desciption, braking bumps, bumps, holes, MUD (I really hate mud), dust, did I say sand?, clay, hills, puddles. So bring on a track that's dead straight and flat with a shitload of jumps and I just might win a National. Maybe not.
My point, dont really have one just like the sound of my own keyboard, is JUST RIDE. Go fast on the bits you like, slow down on the bits you dont.
I know there a $5 trophy to be won at the end of the day but is no good if it's sitting on the shelf in a hospital ward.
For all our whinging and whining no club is EVER going to change a track for us dinosaurs. They may cut sections out, like thay are going to do at Barrabool, but they will never make whole hearted changes. Live with it. Ride or dont ride, choice is yours but for the FUG sake stop complaining.
Barrabool is not my favourite track but I cant wait to have a ride Sunday. It will be my first real ride since Wonthaggi last year. I'm just happy we still have tracks to ride.
There's enough arseholes out there trying to kill the sport without us imploding.
This thread was started on safety and rightly so. Where does safety start? With yourself.
Whoops, just fell off me soapbox. Too many last night.
Me & me mate will be at the Bool Sat arvo raring for some bench racing bullshit if anyone's up to it.
Viper666
PS Monza will be as flat and as smooooooooth as I can make it but the jumps stay!
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there is no rule that says you have to clear or even attempt to clear a jump, you should ride to YOUR ability.
Yeah there is a rule, if you can't clear doubles etc you can't get a SX endorsement. You can't just turn up to a SX and roll over the jumps at your own ability...you'll get black flagged.
This is for good reason, as it is downright dangerous having guys rolling any sort of multiple jumps when there are guys clearing them.
I have landed on a guy over doubles and it was not a pleasant experience for either of us, less so him. I agree safety in usually largely in your own control on a track but as soon as you have gaps to clear and a mix of riders jumping and rolling, there is a problem. For the record I enjoy doubles etc but only if they are well designed and everyone is doing the same thing
If i'm having a whinge its that history is repeating itself as the whole reason the SX licencing and MX track regs were brought in were to minimize the types of injuries which have become common Vic MX tracks over the last 6 months. From memory wasn't there an incident at Monza that was the catalyst for the changes back in the early 90's.
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Goodaye Neale, well said & as much as I'd hate to admit it, I agree with you mate 100%. Makes me wonder if some of these guys who are whinging about track conditions, actually rode back in the day, when the club owned a water cart, that was it. I raced from 71 to 78 & somehow got put into A grade around about 76. Sure we didnt have doubles & stuff, but most of the tracks were as rough as hell. Wonthaggi around 3pm on a sunday arvo, in a Vic Title or Aussie Title or Gippy Centre was as rough as you'd ever want to see. And also remember back in those days the starting grids were always chocka block, sometimes with 2 rows. Just think about it lads, we're not racing for sheep stations, if your not capable then dont tackle things that are above your ability.
PS Neale, still in Vietnam, so if you want to do a bit of bullshitting, take your lap top. Just paid the hotel bill for 4 nights $86.00 & beer is still .80c a stubby. ;D ;D ;D ;D
All the best Ken - Maico #54
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Goodaye Neale, well said & as much as I'd hate to admit it, I agree with you mate 100%. Makes me wonder if some of these guys who are whinging about track conditions, actually rode back in the day, when the club owned a water cart, that was it. I raced from 71 to 78 & somehow got put into A grade around about 76. Sure we didnt have doubles & stuff, but most of the tracks were as rough as hell. Wonthaggi around 3pm on a sunday arvo, in a Vic Title or Aussie Title or Gippy Centre was as rough as you'd ever want to see. And also remember back in those days the starting grids were always chocka block, sometimes with 2 rows. Just think about it lads, we're not racing for sheep stations, if your not capable then dont tackle things that are above your ability.
PS Neale, still in Vietnam, so if you want to do a bit of bullshitting, take your lap top. Just paid the hotel bill for 4 nights $86.00 & beer is still .80c a stubby. ;D ;D ;D ;D
All the best Ken - Maico #54
I dont think any one is complaining about how rough the tracks were or are now,the difference between the tracks of 71-78 are way different to what you see these days the issue that was raised was the way they are designed and lay out with there man made obsticales that are causing concern,and it would be good to see those "starting grids" full again,and maybe we would if there was a little more thought put into them,
#8
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Rough is good , you might get off but its generally not the sudden hit as when you mess up on a double or something.
One of my Favs down here was Traralgon- a few jumps where made but the interesting parts of the track were the natural sections - the uphills , down hills , offcambers around trees etc.
When I saw that track again after some years of not racing I nearly cried.
Its still a good ride, mainly because I like the soil but it ain't the track it used to be.
Just glad that I was around to see , Belly, Melton,Hogan Leisk and co battle it out when it was a real mx track.
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Ken, you're a bastard!
I was talking about MX tracks and believe any tracks with SX type obstacles shown have their licenced revoked until removed.
The trouble is, this is not a shot at you fatboy, some inspectors dont know their own rules.
For instance, the Venue standard rules state a minimum gate height of 500mm, no mention of maxium, the 2009 GCR's state 500mm minimum 600mm maxium so when we did our new 40 gate setup we made them 530mm yet when we got inpected the guy said they had to be 500mm. This is very minor and would not compromise safety but rules are rules. This is how doubles, stutters etc have crept into our tracks by being lienient on the smaller rules and then the onflow effect. We had a double few years back, simply took the guts out of a small tabletop, piss easy to clear but MV made us fill it back in and rightly so. How would it be if a scuttineer decided he couldn't care less if your brakes worked?
Where humans are involved there will always be mistakes and I am all for a bit of give and take (Contradicted myself a bit)but as stated in this thread keep the SX stuff in the SX tracks.
The only way to fix it is to protest, like that brave soul did (125cc), because if MAV dont know there are illegal "obstacles" out there they can't rectify them.
By the way, I am not talking about anyone in particular here (Whinging, whining), just people in general.
It's just that I've noticed that the "Fun" is going out of our sport and I'd hate to see it die. If we do nothing but focus on the negatives, it will. Afterall isn't that why most of us ride these awful machines, fun?
Before you say that the tracks are taking the fun out of it, bullshit. Fun is what you make it.
One of the best days racing I ever had was at Outrim a few years back. The front straight was under 6" OF WATER and the rest of the track wasn't much better but I had a ball. This is coming from the guy who HATES mud. Sure I could have sooked, left the bikes in the trailer then bitched all day about how far I'd travelled to be a spectator(Smythesdale). Wasn't the club's fault it pissed down rain the night before. I made fun out of a shitty situation and glad I did.
As I said the "Bool" is not my favourite track but come hail, sunshine, rain, wind, whatever I am looking forward to a great weekend. The whole package, Saturday night bullshit, Sunday catching up with mates, (Cheque's in the mail you two) more bullshit, maybe I'll ride, maybe I wont but I'll have Macca's sweet dulcet commentry to get me through the day. Let's hope he's made another DVD for presentation night.
That's what it's all about to me, the whole kit & kuboodle. (Spellcheck wouldn't work on that one!)
As for that incident in the 90's I actually wasn't involved with the club then but I think you're talking about the kid who died. His throttle jammed and he flew over the berm at the top of power hill (NW corner) and into a tree. We were made to pull the berm further back but that's all that happened. His parents errected a "memorial park" up there because even in their great loss they did not blame anyone or anything they just knowed their son loved his sport.
Viper666
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Worst crash I've ever had was on a rough bit of grass track.... :-\
The ACT track recently became a jump-fest, presumably to please the promoter of the National titles - but no doubles, and the whoops aren't too bad. I don't think its particularly dangerous, but the track is a lot less fun for me now - its gone from being my favourite 'modern' track to a track that I'm completely indifferent about.
I haven't bothered to renew my membership, and I know that their over 35s, over 45s, ladies and old bikes classes have all died in the arse.
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I agree Nathan that the way it's going it will push the "Oldies" away but unfortunately we are not the future, we are the past.
In a perfect world all MX complexes would have a classic grass track, VMX track, a beginners track, both Junior & Senior, a intermediate track, an A grade track and a pro's track.
The Vic government's new land rezoning has just about stuffed PonyX and classic grass tracks.
We should all buy the "Bool" their the only ones with enough room for that.
Viper666
40 hours and counting
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As I said earlier I dont agree about some of the stuff that is put into SOME modern tracks. But you guys that are bagging certain tracks sit back & think. Have you gone to the track guy & offered intput & offered to come out & help with track work. If the answer is yes & you got told to piss off. Well shit, there is nothing more you can do. If the answer is no, well you dont have anything to complain about & stop bitching. There is no reason a track needs to be dangerous. I am a club pesident & our track is easy enough that on training days we have 4 year olds on pee wee 50s going around the whole track. But Tye Simmonds is a regular at our track & he loves it. Its safe for old slow farts like me but the young kids have got there own chalenges. All on the same track. I will admite I wounld not RACE a pre 78 bike around it but I would ride 1. After 78 would be fine. I have raced a 83 KTM on it.
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One of the best days racing I ever had was at Outrim a few years back. The front straight was under 6" OF WATER and the rest of the track wasn't much better but I had a ball. This is coming from the guy who HATES mud. Sure I could have sooked, left the bikes in the trailer then bitched all day about how far I'd travelled to be a spectator(Smythesdale). Wasn't the club's fault it pissed down rain the night before. I made fun out of a shitty situation and glad I did.
I was spectating that day. Great to watch too! That track was so bad, my brother got 3rd in modern on the CZ! The only guys in front of him were Malcolm Watson & Peter Boyle. Momentum all the way...
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One of the best days racing I ever had was at Outrim a few years back. The front straight was under 6" OF WATER and the rest of the track wasn't much better but I had a ball. This is coming from the guy who HATES mud. Sure I could have sooked, left the bikes in the trailer then bitched all day about how far I'd travelled to be a spectator(Smythesdale). Wasn't the club's fault it pissed down rain the night before. I made fun out of a shitty situation and glad I did.
I was spectating that day. Great to watch too! That track was so bad, my brother got 3rd in modern on the CZ! The only guys in front of him were Malcolm Watson & Peter Boyle. Momentum all the way...
Mate you are bringing back memories, another great track and often muddybut that was when it was at its best.Was it a Gippy centre event or VIPER or?It must have been a few years ago if Malbum was there.
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Mate you are bringing back memories, another great track and often muddybut that was when it was at its best.Was it a Gippy centre event or VIPER or?It must have been a few years ago if Malbum was there.
the year was 2004 in late Aug early Sept Motomaniac as Mrs Hoony was due with the 1st Apprentice Sheila at the time and i was tossing up if i should go or not, in the end i stayed home in case.
i have a pic of Malcolm W from that Viper day exiting a corner sideways on his CR500RE with a big spray of mud from the back wheel.
How good was Outtrim, Traralagon, Newry, Lakes Entrance, Yarram and Wonthaggi back in the 80's opens and Gippy Centres ! ;)
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QUOTE "How good was Outtrim, Traralagon, Newry, Lakes Entrance, Yarram and Wonthaggi back in the 80's opens and Gippy Centres ! "
Hoony you are right on! What a ball we had back then.I'm so glad I raced those gippy events in thosedays.
I was think of entrying the 84 in vets class gippy centre .Im wondering about Yarram as its the only track on the list that I haven't revisited.Im kinda scared incase its a huge dissappointment like Traralgon was too me.
See ya tammara.
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was down at Yarram in April and went to look at the track but the gates were closed, had the family with me so i didn't jump in and have an optic. i suppose if you don't go you will never know, its a drive but also a day out and beats cleaning the gutters or organising the Sock draw.