MX tracks and double jumps.

[Mick22]

Can someone explain to me how the rules for MX track design work ?? I admit my ignorance to these rules as I took along time out from MX and don't really know what happened.

My understanding was that at some time during the 90's that in Victoria (may have been oz wide but not sure)it was decided that there would only be doubles /triples /stutters etc in Supercross and that mx tracks would only have table tops and be a more natural layout. Is this right? I remember all the tracks I went to having the jumps changed to table tops.

I went to Broadford to practice on the weekend and the track has completely changed and has quads, doubles and a step up. At least a few years back you could still lap Broadford on a classic bike even though it wasn't Ideal but now its not even an option. Unfortunately during the morning a guy stuffed up the quads  and ended up with a compound arm fracture so practice was stopped for a few hours. These sort of injuries seem a lot more common on these type of obsticles.

I know there is no "one track fits all" and I'm not having a sook, just interested in how the track rules / design process works

Have the rules changed ?  Where are the rules ?

[bigk]

It's the way tracks are going Mick. I went to a club day at Ravenswood on Sunday only to find the track with some new technical jump sections, and the track no longer flows. All they have done is make it faster for the pro's while the rest of us struggle. I only did practise & one lap of the first race, packed up & went home as it was no fun for me and that's why I ride bikes, for fun. Maybe I'm just a big sook, but did 100klms in the bush that same day and had a ball so the day was not lost. I watch a fair bit of motocross on pay TV, and don't see any of that type of stuff in either the European GP tracks or AMA tracks, They are all wide, hell fast and flowing. I'm a firm believer that clubs should make their tracks to suit clubman level riders. They are the ones which make up most of the numbers and if they have fun, don't crash and ride to the best of their ability, they'll come back and probably bring some mates. I know there's the debate about not improving if you're not challenged etc, but the young guns or truly serious guys who train heaps have acess to those kind of tracks anyway. Ski jumps, table tops, big berms no worries, not 3rd gear, half throttle, turn the bike in the air stuff, that is for supercross. The fast guys will be fast on any track.
Cheers,
K

[Nathan S]

Could not possibly agree more with BigK's post.

We've been through this about 15 years ago - all of these club MX tracks became SX tracks, people got hurt and the punters stayed away.
Then we pulled our collective head in, made the tracks better for mortal riders, less people got hurt, and MX has been going through a boom time.

Now we seem keen to f$%k it all up again?

In both cases, the motivation seems to be a small but persistant and vocal minority of club members who want their little Johnny to be the next Reed/Stewart/Carmichael - the war cry is "But how will they be able to learn to ride the big tracks when their local track isn't a big track?".

The words "Selfish" and "Short sighted" don't even come close to describing it.

[mx250]

In both cases, the motivation seems to be a small but persistant and vocal minority of club members who want their little Johnny to be the next Reed/Stewart/Carmichael - the war cry is "But how will they be able to learn to ride the big tracks when their local track isn't a big track?".

If that is the driving force then answer them, 'learn the same way  Reed/Stewart/Carmichael and a host of other excellent riders learnt - get a private track and practice, practice, practice, the same track, the same stutters, the same whoops until they have technical excellence. And then go racing. Have good technique, have good fitness and the speed will come - not the other way around.'

I agree with all the points of the Big K and Nathan. Outdoor tracks should be fast and flowing, varied and close to natural terrain.

[Billet YZ]

That`s a real good question Mick, i was of the same understanding as you. But some of the tracks that i see are the complete opposite to that theory, they are full of doubles, quads and generally supercross style jumps.

For that same reason i have not renewed my membership at the Bacchus Marsh track as the track is not what it should be, it is an awesome venue but is full of supercross type jumps that you are hitting at motocross speed and that ends up in tears. There has been 4 air ambulances out of there since January but i`m told the track is ok. Go figure.

My opinion is that a lot of the people building these tracks just haven`t had the chance to ever ride on good motocross or supercross tracks that we rode on years ago, it looks like this new breed of track is here to stay until track requirements are in black and white. Some of the tracks are like replacing sugar in your coffee with sand, it just don`t work.

Just my thoughts in general and not throwing stones at just one club that i mentioned.  Peter.

[mainline]

interesting topic, most of the guys I work with are into dirtbikes, and all of us bar one aren't that keen on having our kids ride around on a modern MX track.

The one guy I know whose kids do race minis has told me of two or three pretty awful sounding prangs involving other kids at his local track. We're talking compound fractures and helicopter rides.

One of the main reasons i don't get to practice as much as I need is the lack of tracks within my limited ability. I was going to try one out at kenilworth tomorrow but I've been crook for the last few days and I'm still feel decidedly average so tomorrow looks like a no-go

[TooFastTim]

I may have recounted this story before on these forums. An emergency meeting was called of the club to which I belonged at the time to discuss falling numbers in MX, I stood up and suggested that the mx tracks be eased off because many people (who had to go to work on Monday) were scared to ride them. The local hotshot crapped all over me in the meeting calling me all manner of things and finishing off with the obligatory: "who the f&^ck do you think you are?". Well at the time I was in with a shout of the regional enduro championship. Another enduro rider told him so and we (enduro riders) stood up and went to the pub.

He was warned. MX in that city is now dead.

[All Things 414]

These modern four-bangers can't be helping things either. I flagged all day last weekend at a modern meet and left with a massive throbber (in my head, not my pants) from the constant barking of these despicable machines.
On a happier note though it was good to see a couple of B-graders running 1-2 on their 250 2t's. 

[shoey]

In alot of cases its about keeping the terminal speed / average speed down.

Probably doesnt effect the pro's that much , however in alot of cases it saves the average punter from themselves and signifigant injury.

This in effect transfers to the insurance liabilty associated with this type of pursuit.

 

[TooFastTim]

Probably doesnt effect the pro's that much ,

Agreed

however in alot of cases it saves the average punter from themselves and signifigant injury.

I don't think so. I think the average punter is in far more danger of hitting a jump with unintended speed, not being able to handle it and getting injured as a result. Remember, speed doesn't hurt. It's the sudden stop at the end.

BTW, what happened to Thumper Nats in Aus? That seemed a really good formula.

[motomaniac]

Probably doesnt effect the pro's that much ,

Agreed

however in alot of cases it saves the average punter from themselves and signifigant injury.

I don't think so. I think the average punter is in far more danger of hitting a jump with unintended speed, not being able to handle it and getting injured as a result. Remember, speed doesn't hurt. It's the sudden stop at the end.

BTW, what happened to Thumper Nats in Aus? That seemed a really good formula.

The thumper nats were taking over by WEM and later squashed.

[bigk]

Fast & flowing is way safer than medium fast & technical. Easier & more fun for the bulk of riders to commit to as well. Everyone can launch off a ski jump or negotiate a table top and have confidence doing it. Not everyone can time doubles, triples, stutters, step ups etc, and even the pro's get it wrong sometimes. It's almost always ugly.
K

[Mick22]

BigK

Have they changed Ravo since the Viper round ?

[TooFastTim]

Yeah, they put in a bunch of double & triple jumps <ducks>

[number8]

Unfortunatly in Modern MotoX the nuts are are running the nut house there are some really poorly designed tracks around these days and the amount of serious injury should be ringing alarm bells at MA but it appears it does'nt You have a situation where there is a bunch of officials all Licenced as per MA requirements that just dont have a clue and I believe that is where the problem lies,The guys that build these tracks dont know what there doing half the time and the MA guy that inspects the track does'nt know what he's doing so there is the recipe for the disasters that have happend and will continue to happen until MA snaps out of it,Everything that has been said on this thread is absolutely correct,Joe Average should be able to practice and race with out fear,I hate seeing riders end up in the ambulance and it's all very well saying that racing can be dangerous,however it is a lot more dangerous than it needs to be while the process is in place for the way these tracks are allowed to develop and be approved for racing,

I was present at the event in Qld that John Porter died at and it just should never have happend and there would have been far less chance had the track been designed in a more intelligent way,that is something I never want to witness again,I was a mini bike rider in the 70's and later a senior rider and I absolutely loved it  you could confidently ride any where with out fear or concern a broken leg or arm every now and then but nothing like you see and hear of these days,I have son myself and I love that he is so into his cricket as there is no way I would like to see him go racing on the tracks that are presented these days,

The Thumper Nats formula was brilliant the tracks were a joy to ride and for the older racers thay could turn up and ride them and use there well honed experience and not there balls to ride them,It is a shame that the series is no longer around but at the Time that WEM took over they were getting bigger crowds to the Thumper Nats  than they were getting to the Australian MX Championships which is probably not the way they wanted,then with the 4 strokes taking over as well I guess it was inevitable,I have often thought that there would be room to re introduce that series as a Vets and Evo Pre 85 style series,It was a great series and it appealed to spectators and the Industry as was evidenced by there support and lets face it there the competitors that actually pay to be involved in the sport,The Aust MX Championship series has developed well and that is were the more challenging and well designed tracks should be,

#8