OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: GMC on January 07, 2017, 11:51:17 pm
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At risk of opening a hornets nest I have to say that the news that a one day license is now going to cost $90 is surely going to restrict entries at some meetings.
I see that MA has a restricted senior license that can be used for fast fifties etc.
A Senior Restricted Licence entitles you to compete in any Moto Trials, Mini Moto and Fast 50s event permitted by Motorcycling Australia or an SCB.
Fast fifties look ergonomically restrictive to me yet they still scoot around the tracks plenty fast so I don't see why this license can't be used for classic MX as well
Post classic would be debatable as they stretch into post 90 models but maybe a push needs to be made to MA to accept classic MX bikes (Pre 78) into the senior restricted licence?
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There is already much discussion on this on plenty of other forums, here's how I see it:
Obviously MA is attempting to encourage riders to purchase a full National license which makes sense for most out there who race or want to. Over the years of being involved in a vmx club at committee level, I have watched many riders pay for 5, 6 & seven one day licenses in a row (after the 2 only rule was changed & as far back when they were as low as $30) which equates to more than a national license would have cost. Those guys are also restricted to that one event the license is valid for, rather than being able to ride any event, anywhere in Australia with a National license.That does not make sense to me. None of us like paying for stuff we can't see or "afford", however just like power, water, car insurance etc, we HAVE to. A race license is a necessity if you want to race your motorcycle & should be included in your "racing" budget. I see plenty of people spending $300-$500 on custom decals kits & seat covers (not necessary to go racing) but bleet till their lungs bleed about the cost of a National license which is a necessity. It may mean missing out on a few slabs of beer or a carton of stogies, but do you want to race or not? One day race licenses are cost prohibitive for all but those who really only want to do one or two competition events (not many) & the non-competition events fall under the way cheaper recreation license. It's a pretty simple decision IMO, buy a National license & go race, or don't.
K
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This is dreadful news.
Personally I agree with bigk's philosophy FOR MYSELF.
But.
I'm often trying to encourage others to come to events.
I got a work colleague to attend "Classic Dirt" 2016.
He hadn't ridden his old dirt bike for years. I was slightly embarrassed to tell him that on top of entries, he'd have to pay for a "Licence" (we both knew his riding total riding time was going to be measured in minutes rather hours) I'm glad the Licence fee wasn't $90.
Another example is dragging mates to organized trail rides like the excellent "Sunny Corner" ride.
Many guys don't have fancy graphics or spare cash, and when I suggest they come to an event, every cent counts, as they are comparing the cost with either free riding with their friends or satying home.
It's going to stop casual/ new riders participating. Not ideal!
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What if you are a social rider and can't be bothered with a $ 5-00 cup at end of days racing and just want to do practice days .....
We have a Moto park up here in QLD called QMP which is run By MQ which is affiliated with MA..... there is no $90-00 day license involved here ..... no flaggies ... no ambulance .... and SFA supervision.
I don't get it.
Seems to me the rule makers have it all wrong.
http://www.qldmotopark.com.au/Pricing
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What if you are a social rider and can't be bothered with a $ 5-00 cup at end of days racing and just want to do practice days .....
We have a Moto park up here in QLD called QMP which is run By MQ which is affiliated with MA..... there is no $90-00 day license involved here ..... no flaggies ... no ambulance .... and SFA supervision.
I don't get it.
Seems to me the rule makers have it all wrong.
http://www.qldmotopark.com.au/Pricing
With regards to QMP, there is a fee for a Single use Recreation Licence (SURL), I think because it is done on line and they sell so many (for QMP) it is about $20.00, but there is a licence fee. There is also an annual Rec Licence that if you ride more than 10 times a year is cheaper. Also please stop calling them one day licences, they are One Meeting (not one event) and single use rec licence. Why is it not one day. Simple if a Club Day went over two days on the same permit or like Classic Dirt over more than one day, you only need one licence. In the GCRs an event is one race or class.
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Well I "think" I have just obtained my annual licence after much internet gymnastics with the ma.org.au website taking me in ever increasing circles to nowhere, then thanks to oz555ktm, I was directed to the MNSW website. I'll wait for some form of confirmation before saying too much though.
I agree that this increase will limit new members who just want to "test the water" like my friend Pete who made the "My first Vinduro" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cyjay8FS_q4&t=3s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cyjay8FS_q4&t=3s)) video, it would have been much harder to convince him to have a go with this pricing structure.
I doubt it will deter any current members, as said earlier, it is considered part of the cost of participating in the sport either in a competitive or non competitive capacity, but when you have someone showing an interest in participating, this could be an extra objection.
I would have thought that the organising body would be trying to encourage new members, this seems an odd way to go about it.
Tony.
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Please excuse my ignorance if I am wrong, but aren't a lot of Vinduros non competition and therefore could be run under a trail ride or recreational permit.
If so a first time rider can use a Single Use Rec Licence (SURL) which cost $30.00. If not create a non competition class for beginners etc.
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While I understand everyone's concerns. Just talking about it on a forum (or Facebook) won't get back to MA. Get your club to write (email) MA and ask for an explanation for the increase to the One Meeting Licences (OML). Make it a reasonable letter without ranting and raving.
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This is who owns QMP, and I would suspect the councils have asked the fees to remain low for a Good reason .
WHO OWNS QUEENSLAND MOTO PARK? The land is owned by the Queensland Government. The park infrastructure has been paid for by the Queensland Government, the South-East Queensland Council of Mayors and Motorcycling Queensland. Motorcycling Queensland is the operator of the park.
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What if you are a social rider and can't be bothered with a $ 5-00 cup at end of days racing and just want to do practice days .....
We have a Moto park up here in QLD called QMP which is run By MQ which is affiliated with MA..... there is no $90-00 day license involved here ..... no flaggies ... no ambulance .... and SFA supervision.
I don't get it.
Seems to me the rule makers have it all wrong.
http://www.qldmotopark.com.au/Pricing
QMP is a practice venue run under a practice permit (recreational event), very different to a race day (Competition permit).
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nsw vinduro's are run on private land and require ma licence..pls correct me if im wrong.
vic vinduro's are run on public land requiring registered bikes and are covered by vicroads law/insurance
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While I understand everyone's concerns. Just talking about it on a forum (or Facebook) won't get back to MA. Get your club to write (email) MA and ask for an explanation for the increase to the One Meeting Licences (OML). Make it a reasonable letter without ranting and raving.
Yes true, but at times it's good to sound things out with others first.
If you ride many times a year then obviously an annual license is better value
Comparing costs to trailriding is not the same as racing in an event is whole different experience, your either into it or your not.
CD and non competitive Vinduros don't come into the equation either as they run with a recreational license which now costs $30 for a one event License (got it right that time Kev ;D)
and a annual Rec. license isn't that extreme.
But for those that are part time racers that only ride 2 or 3 events a year are going to find it hard, these guys will probably be up for club membership at the first event for the year plus entry fee plus $90 license before they get into fuel/food etc.
This will make for an expensive weekend for the casual racer.
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nsw vinduro's are run on private land and require ma licence..pls correct me if im wrong.
vic vinduro's are run on public land requiring registered bikes and are covered by vicroads law/insurance
To my knowledge the NSW events will require a one event rec license for $30
Vic events may be changing as guidelines are changing so a Rec license may be needed as well in future - stay tuned
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I know people say you should factor it in, but what do you actually get for a one day race licence or a season one besides the bill.
I know at VERI Vinduro events for a REC licence or Classic Reg I am covered by TAC its a no brainer.
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wheres Dennis when you need him :),VTR events (NSW) have event licences,(we still like to call them day licences,old habits ;)),but usually recommend after a couple events if you like the/our vinduro scene go with the recreational 12months licence,(if it hasn't got dearer??),it's more cost effective,was $90 last year,after couple $30 weekend licences bingo,looking good,online too,cheers :P
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The BSA/Harley Davidson motocross club (noble falls) one of the oldest mx clubs in Perth just went BLACK, looks like they have had enough of MA ! Going to be interesting. ????
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Over here in the West one of the oldest BSA/HARLEY club, have just posted they have bailed out of MA , because of the fees ,does this mean going back to RIDE MA or BLACK meeting for 2017. time will tell .a lot of John Smith and Harry Bloggs riding on the black club days .
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Not quite correct, the club has decided not to re-affiliate with Mwa for a reason unrelated to the increase in licence fees. I was actually talking to the President of the club last night at speedway and wished them well but expressed my concerns about them "going black". I only hope that all their insurance is adequate and does not fall short in the event of a claim.
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do you know how hard it was in the 1990s
to get basic insurance to run a motorcycle event
i do i was on mq executive then and that was nearly 20 years ago
you will find most of the money goes on insurance
if someone will take us on
we no longer live in the70[s where you where responsible for your own actions
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before people jump in and complain about the cost maybe they should heck out what the cost covers - club ride fee, one day licence, insurance etc etc etc. And if anyone out there can do it for less please put your hand up so we can have a look. Everyone very easily jumps onto MA and affiliates as though this is a big money making exercise - have a look at your states financial report and see how much they make a year - WA last year had a turnover of something like $1.3M for $49K profit if you wish to call it that. It costs a fortune to do what they cover. I wish it wasn't the way but honestly a $300 once per year licence gets you a fair bit.
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The BSA&HD Motorcycle club has decided to move in a new direction for the 2017 mx season. Due to the rising costs from the governing body and the current financial climate, the club has found it necessary to not renew its current affiliation with the governing body.
This will mean lower costs to the riders and no license will be required to ride or compete at the Noble Falls MX track.
The club will be running 6 race events throughout 2017 including the BSA Cup and several of our new Ride Park days where the track will be watered and prepped depending on rider numbers.
The 2017 Bsahd fees are as follow
Membership $100
Flag Duty fee $150 (fully refunded after one event of flag duty)
Track Key $50
Race Day Fees Member $30
Race Day Fees Non Member $60
Ride Park Day Member Free
Ride Park Day Non Member $40
We will be running these classes for the 2017 season
Mx1 (450)
Mx2 (250)
Veterans (over 35 years of age)
Women (combined with the vets if rider numbers are low)
Juniors (65-250) 1 or 2 classes depending on riders number
We encourage all riders to support the BSAHD club with their new direction in the hope of improving the sport of motocross in WA.
Regards
The BSA&HD Commitee
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I think it's more about the clubs trying to survive
'quote from Ken'
As a former president of a city club i fully understand why BSA &HD have gone this way , for survival . last year when running club events we made mostly losses , mwa made money , first aid made money ( not whinging on this one as we have a good supplier ) flaggies flagging for riders made money and the club lost , simple plan cut your costs not easy to do , we pay for a permit to race and pay $5 ( i think ) per rider to mwa to race so of the 30 we were charging members only about 23 dollars per rider was hitting the clubs pockets , hard to make a profit when numbers are declining , so what does MA do when we are trying to get bigger numbers at a club meetiing they whack the one day licence up to 90 , now at bare minimum we have to charge a newbie 130 to try at a race meeting , that does not help at all , then we we have to find a sound tester a scrutineer a race sec a steward and a cof c , if you dont have these in your club you have to pay someone to help , again that does not help a club . So i support BSA in their endeavours to try and make a club viable , i see some headaches ahead for them but i think they should sort them out , maybe if ma or mwa were to see where the problem is they can help rather than wave a big stick .
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This subject pop's up every couple of years. What I do know this year is that the Fed Guberment who gives money to MA this year gave allot less. Doing the math I guess that's why the price jump. MA only makes there income from these two sources unlike states bodies who have a better revenue streams. MA has always bitched about this and tried to take over the states bodies income streams. The only real solution is just one body that's well run so we are not doubling up on costs with both bodies more or less doing the same job and charging us twice. But then we have to do away with self interest's etc so it wont happen.
$90.00 for a one day is pure BS and is contrary to why it was introduced in the first place.
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my guess is they are trying to push more casual riders to a full licence....gets numbers up and more gubment funding?
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my guess is they are trying to push more casual riders to a full licence....gets numbers up and more gubment funding?
Probably correct, but like so many things the unintended consequences are opposite to the desired outcomes.
I suspect in this case, the outcomes are likely to be less people trying the sport, and less people getting the full licence. Lose/lose.
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$90.00 for a one day is pure BS and is contrary to why it was introduced in the first place.
%100 correct , us 2 WA
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MA has always bitched about this and tried to take over the states bodies income streams. The only real solution is just one body that's well run so we are not doubling up on costs with both bodies more or less doing the same job and charging us twice.... $90.00 for a one day is pure BS and is contrary to why it was introduced in the first place.
Pretty sure that duplication of resources was one of the major bullet points from the questionable Ross Oakley review. It seems incredibly arrogant to have their performance of the last couple of years with the board being shunted, a CEO departing under unexplained circumstances, a new president installed and then the states all rebelling against her instalment causing her departure, claims of $$$ being owed to their much-trumpeted MAIL scheme, then to help things along they have whacked the licence fees up. That doesn't sit well with licence holders who have watched the administration lurch from one ballsup to the next.
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Vested interest and stupidity and greed is what all political systems end up being. Without agreeing with any one side the whole MA thing needs a new structure. MA says it dose not have enough money , ask the states MA for money they say no you waste it, MA puts up prices. Gee sounds allot like normal politics to me. The result is we lose.
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I was under the (possibly mistaken) impression that despite being called 'licences', these are basically insurance premiums.
Riders purchase these so-called licences in order to be covered by MA's insurer. I'm not aware of any other purpose they serve.
Could it be that the rising costs therefore simply reflect the ever increasing cost of insurance?
Tex
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Tex I think the point is that 'one event' licence fee increased 50% ($60 to $90) while others (National Licence $300-$320) had a small 6.7% increase.
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Insurance is paid via the Club to state MA for event permit, hence is in your entry fee.
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Yes HeavenVMX, I see the point alright. The increase is out of line with the other increases. Perhaps more claims have been made by people with one event licences than with annual ones?
Tex
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My understanding is
- The permit fees cover the promotor (club) & officials for liability
- The riders levy covers the rider for liability
- The riders licence civers the rider against injuring themselves (not really worth much if you actually work for living as the payout is very low)
It should be noted that no insurance protects you for deliberate acts or gross negligence
Tex, it does not appear that MA insurance differentiates risk groups that closely otherwise there would be a different cost for each form of one event competition licence. Currently they only adjust yearly licence cost for the non speed related competitions such as trials yet the one event licence is the same for everyone regardless.
It seems that MA is trying to force riders to buy a national licence.
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Yes MA need to explain why the ONE MEETING LICENCE (not one event) went up by so much. Just one point in this. I don't know the exact amounts, but I believe the amount for a one meeting licence can then be used to offset the price of an annual licence.
eg $320.00 - $90.00 is what you may pay if you use a OML and then decide you want a National Licence. I'm sure there is a time limit for this (of course).
Has anyone asked MA to explain?
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I stand corrected Kevin ONE MEETING ::)
No one would have asked MA because it is a bit like talking to a wall (this is my personal experience and opinion not HEAVEN VMX the club). Maybe when you are appointed Commissioner you can fix that.
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Regardless of the reason for the price hike, "one day race licenses" are one of the biggest pains in the arse for any motorcycle club. Clubs have to prepay for them up front & unfortunately a lot of guys who say they are coming (or even pre-enter, ordering a ODL) to an event just don't turn up! Try charging them for the license they ordered & see what happens. This can & does leave clubs considerably out of pocket for that meeting & some are left with book(s) full of unused licenses at the end of the season. Then there's the time involved in signing people in the morning of an event. Anyone who's ever been involved at sign in knows all about this, signing off on 50 plus one dayer's is a nightmare! I'm in no way defending the price rise, but maybe it will help with some of the angst club officials go through with them. I'm a believer if you want or intend to race, you buy a full licence. If you want to "try racing" you go along to a club practise day & do it under a $30 rec license. Not a lot of difference except for the gate drop. You can do that as many times as you like until you're certain or not you actually want to race your motorcycle.
K
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You are absolutely correct BigK. They are a pain in the arse :(
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I stand corrected Kevin ONE MEETING ::)
No one would have asked MA because it is a bit like talking to a wall (this is my personal experience and opinion not HEAVEN VMX the club). Maybe when you are appointed Commissioner you can fix that.
I'll add it to the list.
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Regardless of the reason for the price hike, "one day race licenses" are one of the biggest pains in the arse for any motorcycle club. Clubs have to prepay for them up front & unfortunately a lot of guys who say they are coming (or even pre-enter, ordering a ODL) to an event just don't turn up! Try charging them for the license they ordered & see what happens. This can & does leave clubs considerably out of pocket for that meeting & some are left with book(s) full of unused licenses at the end of the season. Then there's the time involved in signing people in the morning of an event. Anyone who's ever been involved at sign in knows all about this, signing off on 50 plus one dayer's is a nightmare! I'm in no way defending the price rise, but maybe it will help with some of the angst club officials go through with them. I'm a believer if you want or intend to race, you buy a full licence. If you want to "try racing" you go along to a club practise day & do it under a $30 rec license. Not a lot of difference except for the gate drop. You can do that as many times as you like until you're certain or not you actually want to race your motorcycle.
K
Yes the one meeting licences are a pain. Maybe the clubs should ask the SCBs/MA to reduce the number in a book etc. MQ will do refunds on full books.
I believe what the price may do is encourage riders to maybe use a OML to try a club day and if they like it take the next step and use that OML to offset the cost of a full National licence.
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Thanks for that reply and useful explanation of how the three components work HeavenVMX.
Tex
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although it is for the financial year ending 2013 (last I could see) the MA reports show where the licence fees go and what was spent on insurance - would still be about the same "ratio" (from about page 30)
http://www.ma.org.au/fileadmin/user_upload/Documents/Board_reports/MA_Ltd_Consolidated_Accounts_2013_FINAL_Signed.pdf
And look for the legal expenses spent (wasted >:() on Barrabool (at page 36) crikey - any bush lawyer could have told them no-one was gonna' let them go from the long standing reasonable club useage to a full on motorcycling track open heaps more - what were they smokin?
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Yes the one meeting licences are a pain. Maybe the clubs should ask the SCBs/MA to reduce the number in a book etc. MQ will do refunds on full books. EDIT >> Clubs << also can order and print amount required
I believe what the price may do is encourage riders to maybe use a OML to try a club day and if they like it take the next step and use that OML to offset the cost of a full National licence. yep, youve got certain time frame to buy your National licence with the $90 off.
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I stand corrected Kevin ONE MEETING ::)
No one would have asked MA because it is a bit like talking to a wall (this is my personal experience and opinion not HEAVEN VMX the club). Maybe when you are appointed Commissioner you can fix that.
I'll add it to the list.
Also what do you mean by "when"
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i bought a 12 month licence senior licence, used once at the Vintage title, when it up renewal, I will pay for a new one, one day licence need to go, they where never heard of in the 60`s and 70`s. I don`t think its right for a club to buy a book of one day licence, and hoping that one day they will sell them, it should be up to the rider to purchase a one day licence from MA. or MV. Once that rider has done that then he can enter the meeting on that day and show his one day licence.
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online one meeting lincences are coming. They are available now but I have not seen one at a meeting. You buy and pay for the OML online, print out the document and take it with you to the meeting.
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Have any of you ever made a claim against the MA riders insurance ... be good to know.
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we have for 25 years had
one event licences for all disciplines this is to encourage newbys
then you either dont like it or buy a annual licence
in recent times MA has allowed one event licences for vintage national and state titles
this is a good thing
or am i missing the point
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You are right they are a good thing when used in the manner you describe.
The one meeting national licences as used for the Aust titles is a different process as the rider needs to organise it prior to the meeting. The meeting organiser does not have to hold licences or fill them out on the day which is great.
These one meeting National licences would probably not be required if the club level OML was used as you describe that is as a try out the racing experience thing.
I don't think anyone is suggesting OML should be dropped just the seemingly large disparity in cost increase and the additional workload at club meetings for often repeat users of these licences. Maybe the cost increase will resolve that.
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at a guess there would be a lot of guys in their mid 50's who have raced a bit but no longer need a full licence and still have vmx bikes and think ok i might just do a couple of meetings and get a few of your mates organised to ride as well but at this new one meeting licence price it makes you think twice (not that $90 is hard to find)its that it just seems a bit of a touch especially if it was a club day.not everybody that gets a oml is a newbee.
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You can not race even at a club day with a rec licence.
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Just reading between the lines here.....
IF a meeting wasn't labelled as a "RACE" and was instead labelled a "RIDE DAY" then our fees would be much cheaper.
I also personally believe that the word "RACE" puts alot of people off riding. Take a look at the popularity of events like Classic Dirt and Broadford Bike Bonanza for evidence of my point.
I have attended one meeting in Australia where there were no trophies or even results entered into the equation and yet there was well over 100 entries and over 200 bikes! And let me tell you, there wasn't anybody going slow. There was no bitching about eligibility or the lack of trophies either, just smiles everywhere.....
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so what happens now at classic dirt,& easters Bonanza at broadford,are they now $90 event licences?,crunch them numbers, :P
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so what happens now at classic dirt,& easters Bonanza at broadford,are they now $90 event licences?,crunch them numbers, :P
Mick Classic Dirt and BBB do not have races so are rec rides therefore only a rec ride licence is required the same as VTR events.
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some above have asked about the $ that MA pays out on insurance claims - the payouts for 2013 under the heading "MAInsurance Limited" from the MA accounts report on the website (and if I'm wrong in reading the accounts tell me - I'm not a number cruncher)
MA insurance Limited, gross claims paid $3,389,559
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Why would you pay for a licence? Oh yeah so officials can travel to international meetings and save barrabool. Yeah right
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Got me thinkin' the 2013 asset sheet shows nett MA assets of $8,200,000 - so why do they not save at least the 1/3rd of Barrabool that the club would need to continue? especially when selling the other 2/3rds should actually turn them a profit.
So the licence fees build up 8.2 million bucks and they can't see their way clear to save 1/3rd of Barrabool....
(as said above - happy to be corrected on the numbers)
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Its registered as a non profit making organisation I believe from what I have just read ??
page 10 ...income tax statement says they don't pay any.
and if the company winds up each director is only liable to pay $7-00 each under their constitution ......would like to see how much of our license fees and rider levies each director pulls each year from the system
as its nicely hidden in amongst the breakdown.
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kb171
you cant enter a race meet on a rec licence
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although it is for the financial year ending 2013 (last I could see) the MA reports show where the licence fees go and what was spent on insurance - would still be about the same "ratio" (from about page 30)
http://www.ma.org.au/fileadmin/user_upload/Documents/Board_reports/MA_Ltd_Consolidated_Accounts_2013_FINAL_Signed.pdf
And look for the legal expenses spent (wasted >:() on Barrabool (at page 36) crikey - any bush lawyer could have told them no-one was gonna' let them go from the long standing reasonable club useage to a full on motorcycling track open heaps more - what were they smokin?
Thanks Gippslander, that report is interesting - but shows only a portion of the real legal costs wasted (as you say) on Barrabool. There were also legal costs associated with fighting residents in 2010, 2011 and 2014 with total costs wasted approaching more like $1.5M. Absolute waste on a fight that was never winnable. >:(
Yours truly sat down with the then CEO and MA solicitors presenting them with an exit plan for MA that would have saved 1/2 a $mill in further legals, seen Barrabool continue (with possibly another second new track opening in Geelong), all with MA looking like the good guys. An easy out. So what did they do? The idiotic decisions made are now set in history. Take note of the Directors at the beginning of that report - and the CEO - all responsible >:( :'(
Sorry for the hijack, but any chance to dispel the untruths about Barrabool and I'm in! For the record, despite the Barrabool land now sold, the club still hold legal existing use rights for motorcycling until the END of 2017! Theoretically, if the new owner wanted motorcycling to continue, then 2017 is the only year it can happen!
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5 pages Geoff, its going well ;)
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I stand corrected Kevin ONE MEETING ::)
No one would have asked MA because it is a bit like talking to a wall (this is my personal experience and opinion not HEAVEN VMX the club). Maybe when NOW you are appointed Commissioner you can fix that.
I'll add it to the list.
Also what do you mean by "when" "NOW"
Your right Kev wrong word corrected above
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Just reading between the lines here.....
IF a meeting wasn't labelled as a "RACE" and was instead labelled a "RIDE DAY" then our fees would be much cheaper.
I also personally believe that the word "RACE" puts alot of people off riding. Take a look at the popularity of events like Classic Dirt and Broadford Bike Bonanza for evidence of my point.
I have attended one meeting in Australia where there were no trophies or even results entered into the equation and yet there was well over 100 entries and over 200 bikes! And let me tell you, there wasn't anybody going slow. There was no bitching about eligibility or the lack of trophies either, just smiles everywhere.....
I'm not sure but I think if there is a start using gates or whatever and then a chequered flag that is a race.
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5 pages Geoff, its going well ;)
Yes, it’s interesting as a social experiment in that people like a good whinge but some old super 8 clips hardly raise an eyebrow.
Seems the general consensus though is that we should just suck it up and buy a yearly license, whether we use it or not, but personally I would want to know that I would be going to race at least 4 or 5 times a year in order to justify it.
I know that paperwork at events can be a pain, especially with dealing with license books but if the punters are considered a nuisance for the organizers then the $90 fee should solve the problem… one way or the other
I also note that no one picked up on my idea that Classic MX could/should run under the umbrella of the restricted race license.
The risk factor would be no worse than the fast fifties so MA shouldn’t suffer for it, after all, besides the National titles classic MX is nothing more than a club day.
It would be easier for the punters to justify it, therefore more people would probably buy it.
Not unlike when Vicroads made Classic Rego easier for the punters and now many more people are using it rather than doing something illegal.
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I tried vmx once, cost me twice what a Vinduro did, and all I got for it was a flat tyre and a bung shocker....the only thing that didn't suprize me was coming dead last ;D 8)
but...im not a racing junkie and I fully understand the rush people get from mx, just not for me, I like the me versus the terrain challenge, muddy goop holes, technical goat tracks on the sides of the alps, greasy logs and running creeks etc, I get the warm fuzzies, getting through all that stuff in one go...(not always tho.. :o).
so my licence issues are less interesting and I wont require a full ma licence as im not going to compete in xc events, too old and slow. I might do a club nat terrain if the stars align so that's a one event ticket.
a mate and I were considering a run at Hattah on the wr 400's for fun. we planned to skive the prologue and then from dead last see if we could pass any punters on modern bikes. possibly beers waged on that number...but im not sure if I could ride that now, ive just tipped over that health edge were a couple of little "incidents" have left me with a bung shoulder and a crook back that just keeps giving....
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Just reading between the lines here.....
IF a meeting wasn't labelled as a "RACE" and was instead labelled a "RIDE DAY" then our fees would be much cheaper.
I also personally believe that the word "RACE" puts alot of people off riding. Take a look at the popularity of events like Classic Dirt and Broadford Bike Bonanza for evidence of my point.
I have attended one meeting in Australia where there were no trophies or even results entered into the equation and yet there was well over 100 entries and over 200 bikes! And let me tell you, there wasn't anybody going slow. There was no bitching about eligibility or the lack of trophies either, just smiles everywhere.....
I'm not sure but I think if there is a start using gates or whatever and then a chequered flag that is a race.
The meeting I attended was a club day by all accounts and was run as a demonstration event if my memory serves right. The chequered flag was used to denote the end of laps.
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I'm not sure but I think if there is a start using gates or whatever and then a chequered flag that is a race.
MoMS definitions :
1.1.0.25 : "Race" means any event where speed is the determining factor in the result.
1.1.0.12 : "Event" means any competition involving the use of one or more motorcycles.
1.1.0.20 : "Meeting" means a meeting at which one or more motorcycle events are conducted.
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So a handicap race would not be a race according to the MA rules.
MoMS definitions : 1.1.0.25 : "Race" means any event where speed is the determining factor in the result.
now if 1.1.0.25 said "...where speed is A determining factor..." then the legal and commonsense definition would be the same
;D
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I also note that no one picked up on my idea that Classic MX could/should run under the umbrella of the restricted race license.
I picked it up ages ago and that's what should happen. I have put that suggestion to any one who would listen and those who wont and put it in those useless surveys they wasted money on. The other thing I say is people who go to the trouble to obtain an Officials licence should be eligible for a discount on their licence.
We have been told for about 5yrs now the new Web application system of applying for OMLs would drop the price. Yeah, nah not gunna happen.
Oh well for those who want to race it is what it is.
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So a handicap race would not be a race according to the MA rules.
Then run handicapp club fun days no licence,get ambulance and use clubs public liability insurance
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I'd be ok with handicap "races", would be good to be out front.... for 1/2 a lap.... ::)
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I for one think my riding style is handicapped even when I'm racing , 3 laps leaves me needing a nanna nap .
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So a handicap race would not be a race according to the MA rules.
Then run handicapp club fun days no licence,get ambulance and use clubs public liability insurance
Anything that ends up with a winner which is determined by performance compared to other riders is an 'event' (competition) and requires a competition permit for the meeting and a Competition licence for the participants. This applies to Trials, Enduro, Gymkhana as well as MX/VMX or R/R
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6.2 RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES
6.2.0.1 Recreational activity must not:
6.2.0.2 Be competitive,
6.2.0.3 Involve starts or finishes as defined in
discipline chapters,
6.2.0.4 Be scored,
2017 Moms, so If you want to run under a rec. permit and save costs you will need to comply with these regs.
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it should be relatively easy to comply with those guidelines, providing a bit of imagination is used in registering the event.
It works for Vinduro so I can see no reason why it can't work for VMX.
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handicap demonstration rides
;D ;D
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you cant use timing either
so vinduro is out.
we researched this when i was chairman of the qld historic s/c
some road racing clubs ran under a rec permit for donkeys years
until someone spilled the beans and m.a became involved ftw al
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I also note that no one picked up on my idea that Classic MX could/should run under the umbrella of the restricted race license.
I picked it up ages ago and that's what should happen. I have put that suggestion to any one who would listen and those who wont and put it in those useless surveys they wasted money on. The other thing I say is people who go to the trouble to obtain an Officials licence should be eligible for a discount on their licence.
We have been told for about 5yrs now the new Web application system of applying for OMLs would drop the price. Yeah, nah not gunna happen.
Oh well for those who want to race it is what it is.
"The other thing I say is people who go to the trouble to obtain an Officials licence should be eligible for a discount on their licence."
I like this suggestion and it should be 10% for each role you are qualified for. So they should pay me 80% of the licence cost.
RE the restricted licence. Has anyone put that up as a proposed rule change. MA just called for proposed rule changes last week. There is a page in the MoMS that tell you how to do it.
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5 pages Geoff, its going well ;)
That's 6 pages and no one has mentioned the "E" word.
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whisper is that Viper will have 7 races and a couple of club days this year
so in Vic a National Licence is a no brainer
and if you do Broadford and even one of the 6 VCM or one the the 6 CSC races then you are saving heaps of $ (and time) with a National Licence
(and I agree MA could do better, especially on Barrabool which will piss me off forever >:( , but the national licence is easy, do it once and done for the year and if you do more than a few rides it's ok value)
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I also note that no one picked up on my idea that Classic MX could/should run under the umbrella of the restricted race license.
I picked it up ages ago and that's what should happen. I have put that suggestion to any one who would listen and those who wont and put it in those useless surveys they wasted money on. The other thing I say is people who go to the trouble to obtain an Officials licence should be eligible for a discount on their licence.
We have been told for about 5yrs now the new Web application system of applying for OMLs would drop the price. Yeah, nah not gunna happen.
Oh well for those who want to race it is what it is.
The other thing I say is people who go to the trouble to obtain an Officials licence should be eligible for a discount on their licence.
I agree in principle with this, however, in my club there are a whole heap of people who hold various MA Officials accreditation's, who NEVER act as officials, even at our club events. We struggle to get officials for most events, and the worst of all is trying to find someone to act as Responsible Person for club practice days. There are a core group of older riders, most of whom still compete who do the higher level official duties, i.e. Steward, Clerk of Course, Race Sec, Chief Scrutineer at our Club and Open events. I would put the caveat on it that to receive a discount on you licence, you need to Perform the Role of an Official at at least one event a year, this could be graded so if you perform the duties of a Steward, Clerk of Course, Race Sec, Chief Scrutineer you get a greater discount on your licence than if you just act as lower level official, i.e. scrutineer, Sound Control Officer, Marshall. This could give people the incentive to actually use the officials licences that they hold, it might just make getting people who hold Officials Licences to act as officials.
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whisper is that Viper will have 7 races and a couple of club days this year
so in Vic a National Licence is a no brainer
and if you do Broadford and even one of the 6 VCM.
Good point Gippslander ,your either going to comiitt or not !!
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I agree in principle with this, however, in my club there are a whole heap of people who hold various MA Officials accreditation's, who NEVER act as officials, even at our club events.
True and it would be tuff to manage it. And after the weekend I think I will join them.
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I agree in principle with this, however, in my club there are a whole heap of people who hold various MA Officials accreditation's, who NEVER act as officials, even at our club events.
True and it would be tuff to manage it. And after the weekend I think I will join them.
I think the idea has merit but would have to be limited to active officials of course and there would be a limit to a discount eg (10 or 20 %). Also please note, unlike riders officials have a better insurance cover through MA if they get insured. The chances of them getting injured are less but there is a better courage.
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in vic, Vinduro is no timing or completion so nada race - just an organised ride