OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Honda => Topic started by: Mick D on June 29, 2016, 07:52:05 pm
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Hi.
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hi your self...and in answer to your next question....I don't know any thing about open class Hondas. I do have a husky 510 so I don't need to worry about developing it....
a mate had a 500 and he put a warm cam etc but ended up going back to stock as it was a pain to tune.
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Surely the first step is to fit a better motor? Something 2-stroke, for example.
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Nathan is on to it ;D ;D
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http://s300.photobucket.com/user/logistics835/media/xr200%202_zpstykrvwsc.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/logistics835/media/xr200%201_zpswv4gstgl.jpg.html
Here is a couple of photos of my xr200 nearly ready for racing
XR class would be good
will be running it the Viper series against all the 250 2 strokes
and the over 45s old man events
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Cant wait too see that hot 200 racing. You should be able to run that with the 125s. Will be competative then.
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now that we have had a free shot :D, I suggest the Ballards catalogue for all things XR especially go fast stuff. they should have access to information regarding big bores, cams and carb updates. the shock is a weak item and should be replaced with a better quality unit. gold valves for the forks or even an upgrade to later model larger units. that will depend on what class or year you wish to run in. maybe fitting a smaller tank of a 200 and as much lightening work as you can do. remove all superfluous brackets etc, change axles to lighter units, check hub/wheel weights with CR units etc and change if practical. simplify the airbox. depends on how far you wish to go.
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G'day Mick D, did you get that SL125 running lol jimson
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G'day Mick D, did you get that SL125 running lol jimson
No mate, that was just a bare frame and motor. I don't have any other bits.
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http://s300.photobucket.com/user/logistics835/media/xr200%202_zpstykrvwsc.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/logistics835/media/xr200%201_zpswv4gstgl.jpg.html
Here is a couple of photos of my xr200 nearly ready for racing
XR class would be good
will be running it the Viper series against all the 250 2 strokes
and the over 45s old man events
That's a great looking build Bruce G. Amazing, well imagined and expedited 8)
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn37/logistics835/xr200%201_zpswv4gstgl.jpg)
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn37/logistics835/xr200%202_zpstykrvwsc.jpg)
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Now as for the comedians ::) ::) ::) ::) ;D I am guessing you don't know what Ballard and the rest of the world does,,,
How many Motorcycles can you name that won Baja 1000 races spanning a 12 year period? Nine off road championships. Dozens of other off-road events.
Only the XR600r can claim this crown. It won its first Baja 1000 in 1986 by 45 miutes. It won it three more times. It won the Baja500 three times. It won three gold medals for in the international Six Day Enduros, whilst racing against the best riders in the world who were on their own home ground 8)
Scott Summers won Nine AMA National championships on the XR600R,
I could go on and on, but surely you are staring to get the picture?
So what other model of dirt bike can make those sort of claims?
So Comedians do you want to come back out and play ;D
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how much did they spend to achieve those results ::). in the aus safari, an engine change was pretty common occurrence for the big xr's
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Geeez, I have had a hell of a lot of bikes, few have thrilled me as much as the XR500RE has.
Thumpers,,humm,,Ok Basically rode a new DR500 half way around Aus and back. had two DR600s ::)
A loan of a orange tank XT500. Owned a TE610, I would rather the XR500RE anyday!
I lent it to Jeremy I for the weekend of the last Heaven Vinduro at Gloucester.
He has told a lot of people that he has never enjoyed a bike ride more in his life 8) Still trying to buy it of me, don't think so, he'll have to wait untill I am dust ::)
I raise the forks in the tripples. That made a huge improvement to steering.
Main negatives are the weight of it and the starting ritual. Both of them shit me.
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how much did they spend to achieve those results ::). in the aus safari, an engine change was pretty common occurrence for the big xr's
Very good point, but surely they couldn't be any worse than the new wave modern hand grenades? No where near as bad, Surely?
Just been reading some other web stuff forums, etc.
I am gathering the Ballard's style big fin heads and an oil cooler are a must for a long termer.
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They achieved quite a number of SA 24hr wins as well, in both solo and sidecar form.
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I rode the XR350R Much easier to ride and heaps less fatiguing, but compared to the power and torque of the 500 the 350 feels no more powerful than a postie bike.
Surely the first step is to fit a better motor?
I feel the engine in my 500 is the best part. Thats why I love it so much, that and the amazing front brake.
What is it that turns you off the Engine? apart from pain in the arse starting ritual and weight.
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I know Ballards used to be the place for XR spares and go gear,,,but, I now know he no longer has big fin heads.
I cannot find any XR stuff on his web-site either ???
This site in the US seems to have heaps of XR stuff, they also copy the Ballards big fin head if you send them yours to do it with
Click on Pic for LINK
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/2016-06-30%202_zps9ptjyoiq.png~original) (http://www.xrsonly.com/)
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Hey Mick
XRs only did the big fin head on my xr200 for me a couple of years ago you can see it in the pics
spent a lot of time looking for XR race bits for my 200 2 valve
also got mega cycle cams to do a roller cam for it
so with a oil cooler and bigger fin head to keep it from over heating and the roller cam and a rerouted oil supply to the head direct
this Xr should hold together also running a beefier barnett clutch and a selectra inner rotor duel map digital ignition i made to trigger of the crank
so no massive flywheel now
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hey 80-85 husky....
howd ya at CD12?
-mick
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The big fin head was not Ballards idea originally. They were a HRC item.
I am pretty sure Ballards stopped specializing in XR's years ago because around 2005 i contacted them about getting their 'special repair' done on a cracked 84 XL250 head and they said they no longer do that stuff and referred me onto someone else.
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ive ridden plenty of 500 and 600's over the years and the biggest beef with the 500's i found was the "ride it like a 125" in the tight stuff and on hills due to the big power pulses and 10 metres between firing strokes. we rode tight single lane and snotty rocky hills and a 200 / 250 twoie made that so much easier. ive called the rc and d 500's the "best looking disappointment" in the past. Geoff Eldridge of ADB fame had one in the lounge and loved looking at it but wouldn't ride one.
Open things up and that engine was superb although the weight distribution on the 500 was a little rear biased and you couldn't afford to let the back get out of whack other wise it took over and punted you into the scrub so whoopee desert stuff had to be approached with a bit of caution. a mate of mine was a top aussie safari rider for Honda and he had a 500 rc for vintage racing and he got talked into a warm cam etc but he had so much trouble trying to get it to run smooth, he ditched it for std. he rides fast! his beef was the rear shocker was not up to his speed.
ive also heard as above the clutch is weak and slips in top gear a lot.
on a thread Hijack (Sorry Mick d) had a ball at CD, excelled at drinking beer and bullsh@tting on Friday, rode like an old hungover fat bald guy for the rest of the weekend. won a Yamaha back pack at the trivia. my riding was an embarrassment, I couldn't ride out of sight on a dark nite. check out the clips on the "riders in the scrub" channel on yootube. sad :(
back to XR's. as commented above, cooling is #1, clutch #2 and #3shocker ..go to it.
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Ah Mick... Everyone has their blind spots - the XR500/600 is obviously yours!
They were, and still are, a good thing. But there's a bit of a mythology building up about these old buses, where their shortcomings are overlooked or forgotten...
Let's see:
Desperately in need of real springs in both forks and shock (but particularly the forks);
Weak footpeg mounts;
Weak third gear;
Stators that die in the heat;
Weak drum rear hubs;
Shitty twin carbs (before 1988);
Hard starting;
Lots of weight, most of it too high;
Pegs too wide and too low and drag through ruts that a dirt bike should be able to ride straight through*.
At least the 600's swingarm is not ridiculously short like the 250's is.
Like 500 MX bikes, there's a lot of things to love about the XR600, but they stopped making them for a reason!
*Back when XRs were everywhere, I could ride my 125 enduro bike through 99% of ruts with my pegs 2 or 3" above the top of the rut. Those that were deeper, were usually wide enough that the tips of my pegs would barely touch the side wall of the rut.
Most ruts had been bulldozed out by the hoardes of XRs, with their low, wide engine cradles particularly when the average rider would use up half the suspension travel just by sitting on the thing... :)
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Also: I've seen that the effectiveness of the big fin head mod has been disputed.
Be worth doing some research before spending the money.
Ballard sold the XRs Only part of his business to one of his (ex?) employees a while back. No idea if it is still going.
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just stepping back and reviewing the thread Mick, the first question we should have asked is...what is the aim of your project?? are you a thumping hot Vmxer looking to take it up to the evo boys? or is just Vinduro style riding? these two questions have a huge difference in answers.
there is plenty of pooh poohing going on but its just a bit of a laugh by the resident clowns (I like ts 125 Suzuki's as well) but if you like the bikes that's fine and there is probably some good knowledge here to get to a starting plan.
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Mickey d ,
Step over to this site plenty of honda loving going on here
( Xr500 only ) They aren't that bad , if a stock tt500 can kick arse then a xr500 will kick more .
trust me I have one , it's a project on the table.
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There is only one bloke that you should be talking to about XR development. The same guy who did Ballards and GHR XR's
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Looking at two separate bikes XR500RE(projects). I have them, one is a goer the other is complete in one piece, but in need of a overhaul.
To do one as a vintage adventure/tourer.
Another completely stripped, lightened as far as possible and improved to race in the four stroke Heaven class and to use at some Vinduros as well. Naturally I would hope to have a second different bike(spare) with me at vinduros in case the venue was not suitable for a big thumper.
I am not worried or offended in the slightest by the opinions of others, I welcome their opinions and criticisms.
Grateful of the input. Sometimes ideas are born out of simply "why not".
So far there is a lot that are completely wrong thou, take this next one for instance.
they stopped making them for a reason!
The XR600R chassis is still being manufactured to this very day Nathan. It is now called an XR650L.
Yes it has been fitted the 1987 NX650 Dominator electric button engine, but don't forget they are basically the same cases as the XR600 castings, just machined different in a couple of areas.
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/2016-07-01_zps0t2qybbw.png~original)
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Yes their import to Australia stopped in 2008 but still in manufacture and still being sold elsewhere.
And still the XR600R chassis with disk rear and still the same basic engine.
So, how many other vintage chassis/ bikes are still in production over thirty years latter?
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So, how many other vintage chassis/ bikes are still in production over thirty years latter?
Ts185 & TF125 ;)
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So, how many other vintage chassis/ bikes are still in production over thirty years latter?
Ts185 & TF125 ;)
No,,,,,I really don't think that is the case.
Not listed as available in any international dealer sites.
I read years ago where production went to Mexico for a while, but I also seem to recolect where production of the mighty little ER185 was wrapped up?
Wouldn't be the first time I was mistaken thou,
Got any proof?
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The TS185 is available in middle east somewhere, i cant remember the exact country
TF 125 available locally
http://www.suzukimotorcycles.com.au/range/off-road/two-wheel-farm/tf125
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Psst mick.. the ER is still available new in some South american countries and northern africa where the 2 smoke laws havnt found them yet..
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I have a 2012 TS185 parts book.
125 here too
http://www.uaesuzuki.com/productdetails.aspx?Cid=1&Sid=0&id=66
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Arrrh cool, I like to think my first real bike was a TS125,,, loved it.
I made a rock hard decision not to get caught up in another project when I sold the NEW TS125 seat to William Doe.
I have a real soft spot for them but they ain't got no massive torque that comes on before idle rpm and pulls that torque all the way to screaming revs. That's one thing I like most about the 500RE, in the muddy corner you can short shift it to below idle RPM and chain lug it. After every power hit, it gets a chance to relax and give the rear knobs another bite. Then it comes out sideways and power stands with a massive roost side ways all the way to the next corner. I think it does just over Ninety K's in third, what a buzz as you smack it down to compression slide into the next corner, then short shift it up again to exit.
I am talking about Buladelah Grass track 8)
I have experienced many great things during this awesome privilege and that one is right up there at the top 8)
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The artist who did Ballards welding has long retired. It was really only the non oil cooled 250's that needed it. Now it's just bling
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The artist who did Ballards welding has long retired. It was really only the non oil cooled 250's that needed it. Now it's just bling
Arrrh yes,, indeed he is/was and artist. I have inspected his work. I am still humbly in awe.
There was another guy on the central coast who did the masts etc for Legenddary Windwood Passage etc.
I have been in his shed in Peats Ridge.
The yacht that was on display at Fanny's Night club.
He was younger than me I reckon, So he may be still kicking :P
One of my best friends is a close friend of his and close friend of owner of Windwood Passage, Rod M***
This guys welding, Mick I think? was consistent like a robot, may even be better than the Ballard heads(if that's possible) Ummh, time to crash out at old mate perhaps ;D
I think maybe the 83 and 84 XR350's were the hottest running XR engines. A few owners have told me they have heard the oil boiling when stopping after a hard ride on a hot day.
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at the least Mick, the RE is a much better bike than the rc / d, the balance was a lot better and the motor had a better response. if the rfvc issues are solved, all you need to do is the rear shock. a rear disc would make it sweet
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Lots of Xrs had head cracking probs 83 -89
Because some num nut put the spark plug between the exhaust valves
There's a place in Sydney that puts a smaller dia plug in the head so there's more meat between spark plug hole and values to stop cracking .
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beyond my pay grade but did the 500's have these issues? I thought it was 250 only...
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Longevity in third world countries does not inspire me with confidence. They still seem to love Russian made versions of the Fiat 126 and 125 in Russia - this does not stop the Fiats being shitboxes.
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Mark W has an 84/85 XR250 with smaller exhaust valves. Apparently it reduces cracking problems AND improves power - both seem likely. Certainly sounds good.
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I think maybe the 83 and 84 XR350's were the hottest running XR engines. A few owners have told me they have heard the oil boiling when stopping after a hard ride on a hot day.
I had 1984 & 1985 XR250 back in the day and did the Wonthaggi 6hr, about 5 mins after the finish i dumped the oil which was castrol GPS from memory and the stuff was boiling and bubbling on the ground. they sure did run hot the 86 came out with an oil cooler.
they were fast in their day fro a 250 4t and revved hard, blew it up at the 1984 sea lake desert race (dropped valve and all the mess that goes with that) and ended up get it all on warranty as i was trail riding at the time ;) well over $1200 back in 84' sold it straight away and got the next model.
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If your in Sydney take your XR head to PR tech in Brookvale. The guy there knows how to weld. Would not be cheap thou.
Maybe Ill put some on my XR 200 project just because I can , thou I know it will make forkall difference. There is a Honda oil additive that is probably the best thing you can use. Good oil often with a bit of that stuff and the average 50 year old throttle twister will have NP.
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I suppose the avantage of knowing all about everything is that you never have to acknowledge error after a with blinkers on rant. You are of extraordinary character Nathan. Your a real top bloke.
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That's a great looking build Bruce G. Amazing, well imagined and expedited 8)
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn37/logistics835/xr200%201_zpswv4gstgl.jpg)
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn37/logistics835/xr200%202_zpstykrvwsc.jpg)
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thanks Mick, much appreciated
got 2 of these XRs as basket cases for nothing so thought i would resto one for the viper series
been building engines for many years as i am a auto machinest by trade did some home work on the XR engine and have overcome what i think are its weaknesses
got rid of the massive flywheel and cam trigger cdi to run a inner rotor ignition off the crank
lightened the hell out of the crank and then spent a lot of time balancing it with the rod and piston
bigger barnett clutch set up
re-routed the oil supply thru a cooler and straight to the cam
modified the oil pump flow rate
running a roller cam instead of pissy original one
slightly modified the weak chain tension er set up
running a 32mm flat slide
hooked up to a port flowed head running a 1mm bigger inlet valve
hand made the exhaust myself with a bigger o/d and reverse cone
have had it running but not tuned yet
it sounds like a wrf yamaha, revs very quick
the duel map ignition has the limiter set at 11000 rpm
tuning it with Sunco C14 its a leaded fuel much easier to tune than unleaded crap
Wasp from this forum made the rear shock from scrap for me with all the late model adjustments
I fabricated a set of race tech emulators to fit the inner tubes then got Wasp to set up the springs
so with a bit of luck it should handle good
chomping at the bit to ride it
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I imagine you would be chomping at the bit to get it dirty Bruce G.
It certainly shows what can be achieved by a fertile mind.
You have gone and set the bar to a new high,,,dammit, that's going to be hard to impossible to top ;D
Looking forward to your first ride impression and what dialing it needs.
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that's a hot xr! might even level peg the 510 :o
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Dig that little XR Bruce. Top job! I'd love to see and hear it sticking to the 2 smokers.
As for making the XR500RE a better (mx) bike than what it is Mick, sorting out suspension is a better place to start than hotting up the motor. They already go like the clappers as you know. Get a set of big bore headers and ditch the heavy OEM muffler for something lighter. Also close the gap on the actuator for the carbs, allowing the carbs to run longer on the first gets much better response and makes for easier starting.
I had one when they were new and used it for enduros and mx. It was big and heavy but I was young and fit. Wheelstands from one end of the planet to the other were no problem thanks to the short swingarm and incredible motor.
Ballards sorted the suspension for me with revalving and heavier springs front and back. Teknic (Nick Dole) was working for Ballards at the time so he probably still has records of what he did to make the XR handle better. Teknic is in Penrith. GB also suggested an 18" rear wheel so I went with that as well.
I think extending the swing arm by 30mm or so would make for a much more stable bike that wont wheelstand at the twist of throttle unless you want it to. Not sure on this, but maybe an alloy swingarm from a later 600 will fit? Or 84 Cr250 swingarm with the shock mount modified?
Slimming the fuel tank with something smaller wouldn't hurt the cause either. There are plenty of modified XR's out there in google land you can search for ideas.
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I suppose the avantage of knowing all about everything is that you never have to acknowledge error after a with blinkers on rant. You are of extraordinary character Nathan. Your a real top bloke.
What? The fact that I didn't know they still sell XR650Ls in third world countries?
My apologies.
Would you be happier if I said "they stopped selling them in developed counties for a reason"?
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I'm as happy as Nathan. Doesn't really bother me. It was weaknesses of the big heavy thumper that I was looking for.
I do find you persona more than bissar though. Particularly never being able to acknowledge enlightenment. To the point of continued argument to the extent of still slinging shit.
So in your opinion, the one that we should all adopt? you say the USA is a third world country now? is that right?
Ever had a thought that you haven't said?
Doubt it.
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pharrrk,worse
my head still hurts, :P
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I love my XR500RD. Had it since 1987 and rode the wheels of it. Even had a head on with a car in Sydney and snapped it in half. Its been used and abused. Rebuilt it, licensed it, rode it then put it in my man cave. It deserves the rest. I had the original speedo rebuilt and calibrated by Otto Instruments. The rims are the originals, i just sent them to Ash's wheels and he sanded and re-anodized them in gold.
Weak points for me were the electrics.. regulator rectifiers. Timing chains... stretch and rattle.
Anyone who has an XR gets the feel for starting them and can usually get it first kick from tdc.
My mate had the 350 and i could blow him into the weeds.
As an upgrade now, XR's Only still makes the nice mufflers. XR's only and Ballards still sell heaps of nickers nackers for the old XR's.
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e249/alexbrown64/xr2_zpsspxjdt1p.jpg) (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/alexbrown64/media/xr2_zpsspxjdt1p.jpg.html)
Cheers,
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http://s300.photobucket.com/user/logistics835/media/xr200%202_zpstykrvwsc.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/logistics835/media/xr200%201_zpswv4gstgl.jpg.html
Here is a couple of photos of my xr200 nearly ready for racing
XR class would be good
will be running it the Viper series against all the 250 2 strokes
and the over 45s old man events
That's a great looking build Bruce G. Amazing, well imagined and expedited 8)
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn37/logistics835/xr200%201_zpswv4gstgl.jpg)
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn37/logistics835/xr200%202_zpstykrvwsc.jpg)
Great work! Hope to see it in action in the dirt (it would make a popular youtube vid!). How about a feature in VMX magazine?
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liking this post, luved me XR's and still do, thanx
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Ever had a thought that you haven't said?
Doubt it.
All the time, Mick.
All the time.
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Bloody Nice bike, they are a a think of beauty those CR's XR's in the 80's red with blue and gold is a classy look.
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e249/alexbrown64/xr2_zpsspxjdt1p.jpg) (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/alexbrown64/media/xr2_zpsspxjdt1p.jpg.html)
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Bloody Nice bike, they are a a think of beauty those CR's XR's in the 80's red with blue and gold is a classy look.
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e249/alexbrown64/xr2_zpsspxjdt1p.jpg) (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/alexbrown64/media/xr2_zpsspxjdt1p.jpg.html)
Advertising from the era:
(http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv207/hq_sandman_ute/84%20CR%20range_zpsgonlnkxc.jpg) (http://s684.photobucket.com/user/hq_sandman_ute/media/84%20CR%20range_zpsgonlnkxc.jpg.html)
(http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv207/hq_sandman_ute/15956287108_f4c5a65901_zpsgqbizbay.jpg) (http://s684.photobucket.com/user/hq_sandman_ute/media/15956287108_f4c5a65901_zpsgqbizbay.jpg.html)
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they are a thing of beauty. in 1985 I borrowed a mates 510 husky to have a club day ride at Ravenswood track near Bendigo. I rode the first leg of the open class and won :o. ( I cant ride out of sight on a dark night) I stopped twice to let the local champ on his xr 600 (sponsored) catch up so we could race . I lined up for the final leg and the club president comes over and says "you cant ride, if you beat ol mate he will loose the overall championship for the year". I went home.
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The big fin head was not Ballards idea originally. They were a HRC item.
I am pretty sure Ballards stopped specializing in XR's years ago because around 2005 i contacted them about getting their 'special repair' done on a cracked 84 XL250 head and they said they no longer do that stuff and referred me onto someone else.
That's great to know 8) I have always wondered right back from the thumpernats days till present why they have never been the subject of protest, now I know, Thanks mate.
I much prefer the twin carb arrangement and don't have any trouble or difficulty with them. I think they are partially responsible for the beautiful spread of torque on the 500 I personally see the single carb as a major step backwards.
I don't own any cracked heads, Yet ::)
I own 2 x twin carb 500 heads
2 x twin carb 600 heads.
2 x twin carb 350 heads, none are cracked or repaired. Some have fair done some work too, so they don't all crack.
My intention is to service my goer 500 and gradually improve it as time and money allows.
To do my second one as an ultralight ::) :)
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Bloody Nice bike, they are a a think of beauty those CR's XR's in the 80's red with blue and gold is a classy look.
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e249/alexbrown64/xr2_zpsspxjdt1p.jpg) (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/alexbrown64/media/xr2_zpsspxjdt1p.jpg.html)
Advertising from the era:
(http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv207/hq_sandman_ute/84%20CR%20range_zpsgonlnkxc.jpg) (http://s684.photobucket.com/user/hq_sandman_ute/media/84%20CR%20range_zpsgonlnkxc.jpg.html)
(http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv207/hq_sandman_ute/15956287108_f4c5a65901_zpsgqbizbay.jpg) (http://s684.photobucket.com/user/hq_sandman_ute/media/15956287108_f4c5a65901_zpsgqbizbay.jpg.html)
Yes, I love the look of them, that is beaut to me they just look the goods.
I dig the story that comes with the one above too, cool as. I am a vintage bloke who just drools over vintage bikes :P
So shed and substitute the unnecessary weight for vintage racing.
Its not like I'm dreaming of entering it in observed trials, ::)
And although mine wasn't at the front of the pack, it was working toward it and it was still a hell of a long way from the rear.
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Just got a great shot of optimism ;D ;D
As I inferred, I was really impressed when I saw the welding on a big fin head recently 8)
But whilst I was looking at it, I was also thinking the guy on the Central Coast is as good or even better :) true.
Well, all good. He is still in the game 8)
Just got take one to copy off and book in with him at a time whilst he isn't away as welder on call for big international events,
Such as every Americas Cup challenge,,,,,etc, etc, etc 8)
He,he,he ;D ;D
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http://s300.photobucket.com/user/logistics835/media/xr200%202_zpstykrvwsc.jpg.html
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/logistics835/media/xr200%201_zpswv4gstgl.jpg.html
Here is a couple of photos of my xr200 nearly ready for racing
XR class would be good
will be running it the Viper series against all the 250 2 strokes
and the over 45s old man events
That's a great looking build Bruce G. Amazing, well imagined and expedited 8)
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn37/logistics835/xr200%201_zpswv4gstgl.jpg)
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn37/logistics835/xr200%202_zpstykrvwsc.jpg)
Great work! Hope to see it in action in the dirt (it would make a popular youtube vid!). How about a feature in VMX magazine?
I thought exactly the same thing too,,,,
I really thought it deserves a professional debut like only the VMX mag can do so well.
Would be a great article, given how many VMX fans have such a soft spot for them.
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Maybe I was just having a bad hair day or not willing to accept anything less than pure optimism.
Specially about the one bike I truly dig above nearly all of my others, my little heavy red darling
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/20140713_165826_zpsei9zljkw.jpg~original)
Anyhow, apologies Nathan.
I hope what I though of as a great friendship is still as good as I thought,
and strong enough to survive a few mabye unwise and inappropriate words on my part.
Cheers.
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Hey Mick,
I'll do a big fin head for you if want, no problem.
Pete.
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No drama Mick. As you point out, I've got thicker skin than most.
PS: I forgot to mention top shock mounts breaking... :)
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(http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h357/30782/hon11_zps4dw5rl75.jpg~original)
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Thanks Leith, well done :)
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Hey Mick,
I'll do a big fin head for you if want, no problem.
Pete.
Its not often that I am lost for words, so why should today be any different ;D ;D ;D
I am humbled at your generous offer Pete.
You are one bloke that has already bent over backwards to help me and I mean gone out of your way.
Now the Head hey. Ummh, I just might take you up on that. Regardless I hope my Maico hoardings may be of assistance when you do your AW ;)
Leith also sent me this sheet in addition to the one he posted.
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/hon2_zpsonup2joc.jpg~original)
You will read where they offer a service for the repair of cracked heads, but they make mention of this fault being on the 250 hondas and TTs not the open class XR.
None of my open class heads are cracked, although some have inferred that they do. So I chose not to believe it unless they vouch of a first hand experience. Maybe just one of rarity or a myth grown on "if the two fiddys do? they all must" ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
So at this stage I am no longer sure about the trouble and weight addition of a the big fin head. Maybe just cooling the oil would be a more logical path.
I have a few ideas about along that line to pursue first.
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Although, you got to admit that those big fin HRC heads look pretty funky 8)
Ironic when it comes to cool, they look a hell of a lot cooler than a chrissy tree full of oil coolers.
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I had an 82XR500RC that I did a bit of work to trying to make it a more stable ride and slightly stronger in power.
I did the following;
A complete 82CR250 front end (forks, triples, wheel, brakes) with heavier springs
Had the rear shock rebuilt with a heavier spring made to suit
Special made brake linings for the front and rear (more metallic compound)
Malcolm Smith bigger foot pegs (period pegs)
Higher comp piston
Larger headers
Modified staintune muffler
HRC grind cam (later changed back to std)
Ran the standard reed valves and most other parts were standard.
The bike handled much better in all conditions, braked much better and made stronger and longer power which was very usable.
Great bike you could use almost anywhere.
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then ya flogged it.... :o
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i went to classic dirt at lithgow and was looking at a bloke from victoria's C&J replicas.They had XR500 engines with every 2nd fin on the head and barrell milled off. He claimed that they ran cooler than a standard XR. I mentioned about the big fin heads of the 80s. He claimed it was a sales gimmick and did the opposite to their claim, The example he gave me was, the 60s and 70s huskys and ktms had HUGE barrell and head fins , to keep the heat in.
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I don't think hrc would go to all the drama of welding big fins on for a gimmick...would they...?
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then ya flogged it.... :o
;D ;D ;D ;D
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i went to classic dirt at lithgow and was looking at a bloke from victoria's C&J replicas.They had XR500 engines with every 2nd fin on the head and barrell milled off. He claimed that they ran cooler than a standard XR. I mentioned about the big fin heads of the 80s. He claimed it was a sales gimmick and did the opposite to their claim, The example he gave me was, the 60s and 70s huskys and ktms had HUGE barrell and head fins , to keep the heat in.
Yeah, but the big fins still look pretty funky ;D
Is it the CCM's that they trim as well?
I think maybe a 500tt that Ola Martin has as well?
Yeap, I think I might save Pete the trouble and go for light weight oil cooler approach first :)
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I had an 82XR500RC that I did a bit of work to trying to make it a more stable ride and slightly stronger in power.
I did the following;
A complete 82CR250 front end (forks, triples, wheel, brakes) with heavier springs
Had the rear shock rebuilt with a heavier spring made to suit
Special made brake linings for the front and rear (more metallic compound)
Malcolm Smith bigger foot pegs (period pegs)
Higher comp piston
Larger headers
Modified staintune muffler
HRC grind cam (later changed back to std)
Ran the standard reed valves and most other parts were standard.
The bike handled much better in all conditions, braked much better and made stronger and longer power which was very usable.
Great bike you could use almost anywhere.
There you go an optimistic common sense approach with a pot of gold result for effort. Cheers Redrider.
Coincidentally a friend just bought one a few hours ago for a project, I think its a 83xl500?
Another friend just sent me this pic of a twin shock evo
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/IMG_5934_zps7nilspzm.png~original)
How 8) is that
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The pommies remove every second head fin so the mud falls out easyer , so makes them run cooler ;)
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I had an 82XR500RC that I did a bit of work to trying to make it a more stable ride and slightly stronger in power.
I did the following;
A complete 82CR250 front end (forks, triples, wheel, brakes) with heavier springs
Had the rear shock rebuilt with a heavier spring made to suit
Special made brake linings for the front and rear (more metallic compound)
Malcolm Smith bigger foot pegs (period pegs)
Higher comp piston
Larger headers
Modified staintune muffler
HRC grind cam (later changed back to std)
Ran the standard reed valves and most other parts were standard.
The bike handled much better in all conditions, braked much better and made stronger and longer power which was very usable.
Great bike you could use almost anywhere.
There you go an optimistic common sense approach with a pot of gold result for effort. Cheers Redrider.
Coincidentally a friend just bought one a few hours ago for a project, I think its a 83xl500?
Another friend just sent me this pic of a twin shock evo
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/IMG_5934_zps7nilspzm.png~original)
How 8) is that
I had an 82XR500RC that I did a bit of work to trying to make it a more stable ride and slightly stronger in power.
I did the following;
A complete 82CR250 front end (forks, triples, wheel, brakes) with heavier springs
Had the rear shock rebuilt with a heavier spring made to suit
Special made brake linings for the front and rear (more metallic compound)
Malcolm Smith bigger foot pegs (period pegs)
Higher comp piston
Larger headers
Modified staintune muffler
HRC grind cam (later changed back to std)
Ran the standard reed valves and most other parts were standard.
The bike handled much better in all conditions, braked much better and made stronger and longer power which was very usable.
Great bike you could use almost anywhere.
There you go an optimistic common sense approach with a pot of gold result for effort. Cheers Redrider.
Coincidentally a friend just bought one a few hours ago for a project, I think its a 83xl500?
Another friend just sent me this pic of a twin shock evo
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/IMG_5934_zps7nilspzm.png~original)
How 8) is that
One of those English evos , mono shock swingarm mod to twin shock then disc forks to drum ? It's only $6,000 pounds :o
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Yeah, but that's better than the original 6000 lbs :o ;D
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Yeah, but that's better than the original 6000 lbs :o ;D
I'm used to the heavy gals , I still can't beleave the bargain fat toy got today :-\
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The pommies remove every second head fin so the mud falls out easyer , so makes them run cooler ;)
That makes sense Mick, I met an Irishman today whilst grabing lunch at the local, he was wearing a tee shirt and singlet. He said, "you blokes don't know what cold is. This is like a summer day back home ::) " So that's got me thinking that they don't even need fins over there.
Yeap, more fins, more surface area, more air contact, more work for Pete ::)
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Yeah, but that's better than the original 6000 lbs :o ;D
I'm used to the heavy gals , I still can't beleave the bargain fat toy got today :-\
Yeap, bargain alright :-\ ;D
Hey if you like them big girls so much?
How come I hear you been going to so much trouble to trim the Fat Hey ;D
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The pommies remove every second head fin so the mud falls out easyer , so makes them run cooler ;)
That makes sense Mick, I met an Irishman today whilst grabing lunch at the local, he was wearing a tee shirt and singlet. He said, "you blokes don't know what cold is. This is like a summer day back home ::) " So that's got me thinking that they don't even need fins over there.
Yeap, more fins, more surface area, more air contact, more work for Pete
Bloody Irish ;D funny stuff , the honda boys didn't make very long fins on there heads 83,84 xr500 but they did put that pie oven on the side of the head , maybe take the the door off to let some heat out . ;D
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The pommies remove every second head fin so the mud falls out easyer , so makes them run cooler ;)
That makes sense Mick, I met an Irishman today whilst grabing lunch at the local, he was wearing a tee shirt and singlet. He said, "you blokes don't know what cold is. This is like a summer day back home ::) " So that's got me thinking that they don't even need fins over there.
Yeap, more fins, more surface area, more air contact, more work for Pete ::)
Haha, no problem Mick. Take em off, put em on, up to you ;D
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or you could just go out and ride it ;)
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or you could just go out and ride it ;)
Party pooper ;D
Good idea but :)
But,,,for me, the thread is about making them easier to live with.
Again the 500 is two heavy and a pain to start.
The 350 in full trim is heaps easier to ride, but doesn't have the trill of the massive tearing the knobs off torque.
Lots of ideas, hope I live on for a while.
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One thing I will say about starting the 500, is that it is a very easy bike to clutch start.
Difficult to push, yeah sure. But not down hill ;D
One thing I read on the XR forums was to position the handlebar decomp lever backwards and down a bit so you could squeeze it in with your thumb. So if you do stall it while you still have a little momentum in play? you just grab the clutch lever and thumb around the decomp, let the clutch straight out, engine spins, then let the decomp out a second latter.
Starts really easy. Maybe its just higher crank speed equals bigger spark. Tried it heaps, really easy to start, hot or cold. Maybe I should check to see if my windings are getting lame. Although only stalled it twice unintentionally, once was when running out of fuel up hill(rolled back down, I landed between two large rocks, bike landed on top, supported by large rocks, lucky) and the other, I would rather forget.
Still needs a massive diet but.
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Actually there you go, good to brain storm back and forth,
Maybe some times I cant see the forest for the trees thing,
From now on stop on hills and get there early and set up camp on hill, too easy,
90% of starting problem no longer exists :)
Took me a while to figure that, maybe the Doctor was right after all.
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The xr500 84 I had a while back I didn't have starting issues .
Finding top dead centre helps just finding it at times when you are holding a race start up :P
I have been thinking on my xr500 81 engine trying to make a top dead centre marker off the rev counter bit that runs off the cam for easy starting , I've all ready marked it out and it will work , bit like the little window the tt500,xt500s came out with to find top dead but doesn't really work or needed I have found , nice try Yamaha :-\
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Yes Mick. I reckon thats my problem with the big Hondas, that I rarely have the crank in the right place when I kick. I had no problem with the Yamies and the DRs were piss easy. I need to put a little window in the XR. And a notch in the end of camshaft.
Cheers.
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the big husky is simple.... kick thru till the kick starter stops..pop the decomp and kick it a little bit then let the decomp off and give it what for on the lever...99% success
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ive had and still have xr500/600s. if its hard to start your tecnique is wrong or it needs a tune up
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the big husky is simple.... kick thru till the kick starter stops..pop the decomp and kick it a little bit then let the decomp off and give it what for on the lever...99% success
Exzackery. I used to have a kickstart operated decomp device on my twin shock Husky 510 4T and it was an absolute mongrel to start. Went back to manual decomp operation and it was much better to start. Figure with the kicker operated decomp I was trying to start it in the wrong crank position on the majority of the kicks. With manual Decomp I can feel where the piston is on the stroke.
Strange thing is my 87 510 starts beautifully with the kicker operated decomp. But it has a better gear ratio on the kickstart mechanism.
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Convicted to this idea. getting excited :) 8)
Some bits and pieces starting to turn up 8) I realise it is going to cost a Zillion x 3 ::) ::) ::) arrh well, as I can patiently afford ::)
Every single thing is readily available, bar nothing 8)
A favourite movie was "On Any Sunday".
One natural approach that has followed me since is the "Mert Lawwill approach"
Can always see him as plain as day grinding down that Harley cam follower to a "bare minimum" 8) 8)
"light weight, works great" has stuck with me for life 8)
Probably not so much on the 86 XR600 adv/tourer, more concerned with purpose.
But as for the VMX Moto X and Dirt tracker, I will definitely be going "Mert" all over their arses.
Desperate need to commision my new Lathe and Mill. That's going to be fun :D excited as.
I have already removed 8.5 kilos from the equation. by diet, exercise, training etc 8) 8) ;D and these racers will be loosing a hell of a lot more than that :)
Stay tunned ;D
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a mate used to race a "turner" historic car. he was always beaten by a whisker by a bloke in some pommy thing. he lost 10 kgs and started beating him.
he said "I knew I couldnt lose with the weight loss plan as the other guy was a whippet and had no where to go...."
your on to some thing Mick ;)
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After watching a couple of youngsters punt XR200's around the Mt Kembla track a few yrs ago at a Heaven meeting, in 4stoke or pre 85 class, I came to the belief that they are awesome VMX bikes for most punters. I remember an ADB article back in the 80's where the writer spent the money on Fox forks and Ohlins rear and some engine work etc on an early 80's XR200, trying to get it competitive with the two strokes. Great bike but still not consistent enough to worry the fast guys on two strokes. But for VMX I reckon they are a very good ride- without wearing or scaring you out too much.
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anything under 250 you can pretty well hold flat strap a lot of the time. just fanging it everywhere is great. xr 200's are the best "hold it flat" bikes around. trying to modify them in any way just seems to loose that xr 200 feeling. great fun bike, will go anywhere. what you loose in straight line power you can usually make up in corner speed.
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some serious XLs punting around our last meeting - right up at the pointy end to.
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Hey Mick
thought you would like to hear the XR200 going
Heres a short vid of it after setting the timing and carby jetting with a 4 gas analyzer still a bit more finer tuning and riding, thats what XRs sound like with plenty of lightened and balanced parts nice and narly
pause the vid at the start and let it load then play otherwise a bit jumpy
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/logistics835/media/xr200%20tuning%20with%204%20gas%20analizer_zpskwyghyqy.mp4.html
Convicted to this idea. getting excited :) 8)
Some bits and pieces starting to turn up 8) I realise it is going to cost a Zillion x 3 ::) ::) ::) arrh well, as I can patiently afford ::)
Every single thing is readily available, bar nothing 8)
A favourite movie was "On Any Sunday".
One natural approach that has followed me since is the "Mert Lawwill approach"
Can always see him as plain as day grinding down that Harley cam follower to a "bare minimum" 8) 8)
"light weight, works great" has stuck with me for life 8)
Probably not so much on the 86 XR600 adv/tourer, more concerned with purpose.
But as for the VMX Moto X and Dirt tracker, I will definitely be going "Mert" all over their arses.
Desperate need to commision my new Lathe and Mill. That's going to be fun :D excited as.
I have already removed 8.5 kilos from the equation. by diet, exercise, training etc 8) 8) ;D and these racers will be loosing a hell of a lot more than that :)
Stay tunned ;D
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Hey Mick
thought you would like to hear the XR200 going
Heres a short vid of it after setting the timing and carby jetting with a 4 gas analyzer still a bit more finer tuning and riding, thats what XRs sound like with plenty of lightened and balanced parts nice and narly
pause the vid at the start and let it load then play otherwise a bit jumpy
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/logistics835/media/xr200%20tuning%20with%204%20gas%20analizer_zpskwyghyqy.mp4.html
Convicted to this idea. getting excited :) 8)
Some bits and pieces starting to turn up 8) I realise it is going to cost a Zillion x 3 ::) ::) ::) arrh well, as I can patiently afford ::)
Every single thing is readily available, bar nothing 8)
A favourite movie was "On Any Sunday".
One natural approach that has followed me since is the "Mert Lawwill approach"
Can always see him as plain as day grinding down that Harley cam follower to a "bare minimum" 8) 8)
"light weight, works great" has stuck with me for life 8)
Probably not so much on the 86 XR600 adv/tourer, more concerned with purpose.
But as for the VMX Moto X and Dirt tracker, I will definitely be going "Mert" all over their arses.
Desperate need to commision my new Lathe and Mill. That's going to be fun :D excited as.
I have already removed 8.5 kilos from the equation. by diet, exercise, training etc 8) 8) ;D and these racers will be loosing a hell of a lot more than that :)
Stay tunned ;D
That's sounds great Bruce , she's reving quick well done I've never heard a old four banger rev that hard .
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"Impressed" is an understatement 8)
I've heard V8's that don't sound that good.
I am highly motivated at the moment, I will feed on your ideas and success to fuel it further.
Cheers for the positive contributions fellas
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Hey Mick
thought you would like to hear the XR200 going
Heres a short vid of it after setting the timing and carby jetting with a 4 gas analyzer still a bit more finer tuning and riding, thats what XRs sound like with plenty of lightened and balanced parts nice and narly
pause the vid at the start and let it load then play otherwise a bit jumpy
http://s300.photobucket.com/user/logistics835/media/xr200%20tuning%20with%204%20gas%20analizer_zpskwyghyqy.mp4.html
Holey snapping duckshit Batman! :P
Convicted to this idea. getting excited :) 8)
Some bits and pieces starting to turn up 8) I realise it is going to cost a Zillion x 3 ::) ::) ::) arrh well, as I can patiently afford ::)
Every single thing is readily available, bar nothing 8)
A favourite movie was "On Any Sunday".
One natural approach that has followed me since is the "Mert Lawwill approach"
Can always see him as plain as day grinding down that Harley cam follower to a "bare minimum" 8) 8)
"light weight, works great" has stuck with me for life 8)
Probably not so much on the 86 XR600 adv/tourer, more concerned with purpose.
But as for the VMX Moto X and Dirt tracker, I will definitely be going "Mert" all over their arses.
Desperate need to commision my new Lathe and Mill. That's going to be fun :D excited as.
I have already removed 8.5 kilos from the equation. by diet, exercise, training etc 8) 8) ;D and these racers will be loosing a hell of a lot more than that :)
Stay tunned ;D