OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Competition => Topic started by: Tahitian_Red on June 16, 2008, 03:18:44 pm
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Wondering if there are any classes for Vintage (pre-75) 100's down under? AHRMA runs a class for 100cc bikes with fat guys on them here in the U.S. ;)
Here is a pic of my little MX100 I plan to race at the next event. The fenders are cracked, but I have new ones to install this week. I think I'm just a set of shocks away from making her scream for mercy. ;D
(http://www.post-vintage.com/images/LilYammy.JPG)
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Nice original bike Red :) Over here the 100s would run with the 125s , cant say iv'e seen any 100s at meetings though ???
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No we don't have a 100 class Red but it's been a major topic at recent klub Kevlar pub sessions. I've recently picked up a couple of TS Suzuki 90s and a mate has done likewise and we have thrown the idea of creating a bucks down budget class based on 100cc two stroke and 125cc 4 stroke trail bike based machines.
The rules would be pretty simple and in keeping the class as low buck as possible, exotica like trick adjustable suspension components, late model reed blocks, fat pipes and anything else that would take away the spirit of low budget would be ineligible.
We have been compiling a list of bikes that would be eligible. Here's some:
Suzuki:: TS/TC 90, TS/TC100
Yamaha:: DT100,LT1, LT2
Honda:: SL100/125, CT90/110
Kawasaki::G3/G4/G5 100
Jawa 90...........
You get the idea. Mini bikes wouldn't be eligible and a cut off would be 1978. All bikes must be twin shock, single leading shoe brakes. 7" and 4" suspension travel, the original frame for the engine but the frame can be lightened, original swingarm can be lengthened, period frame mods like lowering engine in Yamahas allowed, a maximum of 32mm forks and all parts used must fit into the pre 78 period.
We decided that genuine MX bikes like Reds MX100 wouldn't be allowed in the spirit of keeping the class cheap. We at Klub Kevlar have two kitted Suzuki 90S underway and Alan Jones has a nice little SL125 (not his fast Yoshi powered Rickman) in the shed. You can still buy these bikes for under 500 bucks and often much cheaper and I reckon it would be a hoot to see the amount of hot rod ingenuity that'd emerge.
In all honesty it'll probably never take off because there are already too many classes. However, we really do need a low budget, entry level class that can also be a bucket of fun, in the spirit of what the vintage thing is about.
I was a little disapointed when a bloke at CD5 told one of us that Klub Kevlar has lost touch with the real vintage world because the bikes we had at CD5 were all flash and bling and out of the reach of the average punter. Perhaps some were, but all of us also have low buck bikes that we love equally as much as the bling stuff. This idea started as a bit of fun but has become a serious idea because we reckon that fun, entry level racing without all of the trick and bling is a much needed feature.
Anybody got anything to add to the mix?
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Firko, I hope it does take off as this is a great fun idea and something I'd fully support being the obscure budget enthusiast I am ;D
I'll even fly the Honda colours with the mighty SL100 ;)
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Wondering if there are any classes for Vintage (pre-75) 100's down under? AHRMA runs a class for 100cc bikes with fat guys on them here in the U.S. ;)
Fat guys?! I'm your man! ;) :D ;D
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What a cool idea 8)
We have had many of a beer fueled chat over here about a farm bike based budget class but I think I like the 100 class better ;D
Nice clean and clear rules are the way to make it work!!!
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Firko, myself and a couple of other vmxers over here talked about a "roach class", no bike over a certain dollar value, and just to keep the punters honest about the dollar value we talked about the old "claiming rule". Every bike in the roach race was up for grabs for a certain dollar value (eg $400). It would mean that noone would put good bikes up to race but it would also mean bike would move to different sheds. Who knows what could be dug up out of some guys sheds??
Anyway, If I remember right, we had had quite a few beers at the time of the discussion and it was certainly a good laugh at the time. ;) ;D
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Doc I want my 100 back ;D
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The class would need a weight limit, no one under, say 100kgs ;) ;)
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I am in !!!!Tim ;D Hodaka 100 Ace traily and the little Dirt Squirt fun bike ? No Super rat parts fitted of course, Hey I am only 91Kgs and Doc rooted by miles...... ;)
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;) no worries Stew, I knew you'd be having a change of heart, I'll have it out by the back gate in a box tomorrow, I actually didn't use any of it...yet :D there's been a few TS100's for sale of late for next to nothing, if you really want it I'll swap the SL100MX and include your roller in exchange for a TS100 runner :P ;) I was bidding on the TS90 advertised local on egay but the bastard seller (offence intended) withdrew it..not impressed >:( ::)
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Doc I got a tc100 and a ts125 K and spares , and you got a Honda SL.......................... ;) Tim xxxx.
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No one under 100kgs! bleeding nora! how bout if I carry a pillion passenger! ;D
mmmmm..Always tempting Tim but you live waaaaay down there and the TC has the ucky duel range gearbox and the 125 is not eligable :( sad cause I have one sitting here that would go really well if it (pre 75 125 trailies) were allowed! :P it'll go okay against the 125 mxer's though so it doesn't really matter ;)
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I'm in. I reckon this is just the ticket to reinject a bit of fun into the ever more serious vintage scene. This is just the spirit that pervailed when Firko, GE and crew started to whip up enthuusiasm for vintage mx 20 years ago. If people are serious about this we need to keep this thread alive to raise ideas and support. I sold my Evo YZ465 because I was a little worried about racing against blokes with the level of race face I saw at many race meets. I'm an old fart who loves racing but my serious days ended back before bikes gained water cooling. This will be perfect for anybody just wanting to have fun without the excess baggage of big dollar bling bikes or serious trophy hunters. I like the feature that Firko mentioned that we could modify the little bikes as much as we want so long as it's within the spirit of pre '78. I reckon we'll see some great little hotties. I know where I can get one of these below. Hows that for something different but still within the spirit??
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/bridgestone90sr.jpg)
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Brilliant Yamaboy. The James Squire Golden Ale worked its spell on you. A Bridgestone is just the thing we were talking about. I picked up a Torque brand expansion chamber for the Honcho on eBay over the weekend and a 19" front wheel from a pile of shit at the farm next door to the Bungonia resort.
I'm not sure if a claim rule would work in this day and age DJ. It leaves the door open for unhappiness when someone claims the bike you've gained some emotional atachment to. The way to keep everyone on a reasonably level playing field is to impose self scrutineering. Once the rules are established it'd be up to us to to keep each other in line. We'd be able to spot someone spending money on expensive go fast parts that are out of the spirit and if someone was a big enough trophy hunter to build a big'un, it'd be more of a sad reflection on them as individuals more than anything else.
Now I'll try and talk my long retired and disillusioned mate into come back into the vintage fold with his Hodaka 100.
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What a top idea. Hell yeah, get that class up and running im in for sure.
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well there ya go! we have enough numbers on the grid already! now all we have to do is be in the same Bat place at the same Bat time! :P ;D
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cd6, the battle to be LORD OF THE FLIES!
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:D :D :D well I seem to land on all the biggest pieces of shit so I should rightfully challenge to be Lord of the Flies..Lord of the Blow Flies that is! :D
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I like it. Call the class the Fly class, the "series" the Battle of the Flies and the champ would be the Lord of the Flies. forking Brilliant.
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I'm a bit worried for Doc if the 100kg thing is applied...he'll need two full jerry cans tucked into his leathers just to qualify! ;)
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Anyone wish to start this in the General or competition areas? Sorry T Red we went of course a bit. No very few 100s were used in Australia from what believe. (Hodakas aside) as the adult classes usually commenced at 125cc size. Cheers Tim
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Seeing I'm about three times Docs size, I'll gladly donate 50 of my own personal kaygees to his cause. :D
How nice is that little ATI/LT1 up above??
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I like it. Call the class the Fly class, the "series" the Battle of the Flies and the champ would be the Lord of the Flies. forking Brilliant.
Perhaps Tahitian Red could visit to present the trophy?
The threads gone a tad lateral but he got the ball rolling.
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All that sounds suspiciously like 'VMX Buckets' to me ???
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No problem with the thread running astray. ;)
I can feel the excitement in all your posts. I'm excited over here too! ;D
This class will get me off my butt and put the finishing touches on the TM100 "Restification". I have less in the MX100 than I spent on the Sun rims and stainless spokes for the little TM. By racing these two 100's in the new AHRMA class I hope to get my nephews introduced to Vintage MX in a safer and cheap manor.
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thats a real neat looking little MX100 Red!
i've got the 125 of the same year soon to be up for sale.
i agree with Lozza, this smells like Bucket MX and i reckon the idea is bonza!
although it's been a while since i've seen a 100cc cylinder for sale to drop onto my DT motor.
and Wombat, i reckon with a MX meeting or two, you'll be down to 98kgs in no time flat, thus making it difficult for you to qualify. i'm eating pies and choclate as i type so as to ensure my entry into this class.
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God, by the sounds of things I better get on ebay before the price of 100's hits Maico levels...
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Lets hope this happens and doest remain just talk or only a forum topic. It would be a fun class with back to basics entry level racing. I reckon it would do wonders attracting new people into the sport.
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Heres a some starters for the class. ;D With a bit of work I could have up and running, ready to go.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii279/Quicksilver_032/DSC00176.jpg)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii279/Quicksilver_032/DSC00178.jpg)
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thats a real nice seat on the UKI...
isn't that near Nimbin?
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thats a real nice seat on the UKI...
isn't that near Nimbin?
Seat base is excellent, Not a hint of rust. Rats stuffed the foam.........Nimbin?. Nope. Ive had that old thing for 18 months or more. As far as I know its never been anywhere near Nimbin
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The three Honchos that are going together to make two, maybe even three Fly class racers. The partial bike is in surprisingly good condition and will be the basis for racer#1 using the Torque Pipe, modified disc, ported barrel and race kit head I've picked up. The green bike may become a parts donor for racer#1. It has a brand new rebuilt stock engine so it may still become a racer. The orange bike is nearly a goer that only needs an air box,a tidy up and some tuning. My mate Bernie is taking control of that project. I swapped a complete TC100 and TC90 parts hulk with Nathan for Racer#1 and the orange bike. I bought the green bike on eBay a couple of years ago and it's been sitting waiting for a reason to be restored. Another KK member is doing a Honcho and Jonsey already has a nice little SL125 that he raced in the early days of VMX. It's got a YZC tank and seat which helps it look like a mini HL. This has renewed my will to race again. By next year I should make the 100kg limit and I'll be itching to have a go. Probably only dirt track though at this stage.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/honcho1.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/ABQEL-ts90.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/honcho2.jpg)
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Friends and I back around 2002 wanted to have a meeting that suited useless old fat ,(skinny too) lazy farts like us. Where even the best fittest racers would be " hamstrung" back to the pack, and tracks that did not have poxy unrideable shit. Results of the brain storm !!! see above ,yes not allowing very hotted up, very modified bikes or factory racers like Hodaka Super Rats, YZ80Bs etc :D.....and of course we included as the other riding machines of the day pre75/68 heavyweight sidecars... The mix seemed to please all.... Called it light spit and heavy shit races. ;) Cheers Tim
We did discuss that stuff about "claiming" and totally rejected it for the reason Firko stated above, even a bucket of crap is most likely dear to somebodies heart and think of this a pair of very used plastic side covers from an SL100/125 bring way above $250 on ebay! so how do you set a price.
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TS90...hmmmm..a TS100 would be good, I have the roller just need an engine..hmmmm..I need an engine guys!! anyone have a ts100 engine kicking around holding a shed door open they don't need or would like to swap for a brand new brick? :P searchin' egay for some sneaky Yoshi or Powroll SL100 gear at the mo but one could easilly abandon this plan of attack for a hotty Honcho ;)
I think a fair amendment to the rules is to allow up to 125cc for pre'65 dungers. That way I can ride my 120cc super B1oop! :D
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I see most photos to date are dungers...
I think I've read the VMX concept started with dungers too? At least not the Blingsters to which we're now accustomed.
So I've looked into my crystal ball for a glimpse of our 'Flies' future... Baaa-ling!!!
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You actually make a good point Wombat. While the bikes will just about all start as unloved dungers, I'd encourage getting the bikes into as pretty a shape as affordable. I'm going to make one of my little 90s into an RH clone and Bernies will be a replica of the kitted green Honcho he started on back in 1970. Both bikes will be as cherry as a KK bike deserves to be. Here's a couple of excerts from a piece on prepping Honchos from a Pop Cycle "Hot Up Ideas" from 1970 or '71. Don't those little Suzukis look good in race trim?
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/Suzuki100-1.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/Suzuki100-2.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/Suzuki100-8.jpg)
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I was a little disapointed when a bloke at CD5 told one of us that Klub Kevlar has lost touch with the real vintage world because the bikes we had at CD5 were all flash and bling and out of the reach of the average punter. Perhaps some were, but all of us also have low buck bikes that we love equally as much as the bling stuff.
Just a comment having read back over this piece...
I was amazed at some of the bikes in the KKK tent, I think we all were.
There was some serious iron I'd never seen before and I've no doubt they cost a motza with parts made of unobtainium...
But it could be argued some of the 'ordinary' VMX bikes are also creeping beyond the reach of the 'average punter'.
Look at the e-bay prices for XR75s; check out some of the Maico asking prices.
The Jap bikes - the mainstay of the sport - are slowly but surely edging higher.
The KKK bikes are a real part of MX history. There's nothing there from the labs of NASA.
They're real and RARE pieces of MX history; like the LITO soon to appear on the cover of the new VMX Magazine.
At CD5 some remained in the tent and some were doing laps in the mud like the rest of us.
Better that than parked in a Museum somewhere (not that there's anything wrong with Museums...).
Unique pieces are hard to come by and that's what sets them apart, not because they're 'flash and bling'.
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[/quote]
The KKK tent,
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KKK? Might be good idea to use another set of letters. .. Ku Klux Klan. ;D
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F$%king great idea!
Count me in. Anyone got an LT2 engine that they want to part with? Or a DT100? Or an XL125? (Yeah, I know about the ones on Ebay, but have no money ATM...)
Ironically, a big part of the reason why I parted with both the TS90 (now Firko's) and the SL100 (now Doc's) is because they were a bit useless to me - I'd have loved to have kept either/both of them, but they weren't going to be much chop as race bikes, I lacked the time and inclination to go down the resto path, and I had no use for them as ride-bikes.
Dennis, Noel and I had talked of having an SL100/125 challenge at a HEAVEN event, but Noel and I both sold our bikes.
F$%king great idea. :)
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Nathan. I have both a DT100 and XL125 engines. ;)
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I'm stoked. This'll be more fun than a barrell of blowflies. ;D I need a 100 barrell for my brothers DT125 that he's going to donate to me when I tell him. I'll shine the little booger up to the hilt to counter those schmick TS90s that'll be coming out of bling HQ soon. It would be great if we could get this up and running for next year so we've got 6 months to get our dungers built. The Crawford River Classic and Nepean Charity 2 day meet are pefect for the first couple of races for the 100s.
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geez Wombat, you could warn a guy first before posting pictures of blue MC1-A 90 Kawasaki's! :o had one identical! greeeeeat motor in the little suckers but that front turns under before you even think about turning! even worse than MX80's! :o I'd reckon the little kawa's 90'/100's could give it to the TS90's and I also know the HT1 Yam's can go pretty well too. I've lived these dungers all my life :D
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Phil, the 100s also have a shorter stroke, compared to the 125s - hence my need for a complete LT2 or DT100 engine.
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Bugger. I think a TS100 or 90 might be the ticket then. I'd love to find a cheap Hodaka Rat. They're awesome little bikes but they've got a cult followijng so getting a cheapy won't happen. Doc, are TM100 parts interchangable with TS100?
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/tm100.jpg)
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There is a hodaka rolling frame on ozebay at the moment might be worth a look .
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Doc, are TM100 parts interchangable with TS100?
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/tm100.jpg)
NO! TM100 and TM125 are almost identical (except barrel/head obviously)
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Phil, nope unfortunately the TM100 is totally different :D mate I have visions of a TS100 with a machined and much lightened flywheel, a nice chamber, ported and flowed with rotary disc durations matched accordingly, a big big powerjet carb on a ram tube induction breathing through a pod and a few internal ratio swaps. All this including the purchase of a bike could come in well under $500 ;D
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Hmmm, the TM 100 looks like a serious MXer.
This concept is in its infancy but I understood the intent was to allow 100cc or less Dungers an opportunity to race away from 'real' MX bikes?
...and don't shoot the messenger!
It's a democracy and I'm just throwing this into the mix, OK?
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TM's definitely too flash ;D :D
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yup, no mx or competition bikes allowed ;)
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So is it to be trail and track ????
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Indeed. If the MX100 and TS90MX aren't legal (as per earlier posts), then there's no way a TM100 should be.
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This is starting to sound like a lot of fun, I may have to bring this up at the next club meeting along with a transcript. I spoke to my boss today and a mate at another company and they could be persuaded to sponsor a "bucket" race at a few meetings with an end of year trophy and some prize money (1st,2nd,3rd, best crash, most blow-ups/dnf's etc from what may be at this stage a $1000 prize pool)
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Most DNF's :D Sounds just right for me ::)
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So there Phil, ya cheating Prick!........In all fairness I see where Phill was headed. I think he was looking at fitting a TM100 top end onto a TS100, not using the whole bike. Thankfully they're different engines so that one's nipped in the bud, but what about Yamahas where the MX bits bolt right on? We're going to have to be honest amongst ourselves with using non Kosher parts. Already that self policing policy is working going by the previous posts busting Phils TM dream. Let's hope that when and if this ever gets off the ground we don't get inundated with cheats trying it on like we did in the early days of pre'75.
Speaking of rules and eligibility, I'm gradually putting together a rudumentary set of rules to cover our dunger class. I like the AHRMA idea of publishing a list of bikes that you CAN use. If it ain't on the list, you can't use it. This is where you experts can assist. I'd like to formulate a list of eligible bikes, building on my small initial list. Can you guys help out?
Here's the small list I started with.
Suzuki:: TS/TC 90, TS/TC100
Yamaha:: DT100,LT1, LT2
Honda:: SL100/125, CT90/110
Kawasaki::G3/G4/G5 100
Jawa 90...........
Also..Do you think that making the cutoff pre'78 allows for too much of a development spread. One punter reckons pre '75 would be better. I'm not familiar with the product range to offer a serious opinion. What do you guys think?
What ideas have you got to contribute.............................
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Always good to see the possibility of grtting old bikes a chance to shine and this has prompted a question thats been buzzing my head for a while.
What of the designated 100cc race bikes like the MX100 and TM 100s? has to be a few lying around someplace much as there should be a few 175 race bikes lurking in cobwebs.Are they forced forever to race up a class or will a 100 and 200cc class be recreated like it was way back when.
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Bucket racing is grouse fun, I used to race in it when it was at the Vic dirt track series about 15 years ago, some events they had about 30 starters, and started again last year in the CSC series in western Vic. For some reason racing around on slow shit boxes with your mates is a lot of fun.
Make it pre75 because all the pre75 bikes are as slow as each other but pre78 lets in the later SL125 (2 piece head) engine which can be made to go very quick! In the CSC they allow the late SL125 engine because they are lot easier to get so this is pretty much what everyone runs. But it was better when it was resticted to pre75 because all the 100cc 2 strokes are still competitive and you get a better mix of bikes on the grid
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Thankfully they're different engines so that one's nipped in the bud, but what about Yamahas where the MX bits bolt right on?
I dunno how much it matters, really. If we were talking 125s, a DT125 barrel is a better starting point than an MX125 item - and its dead easy to simply copy the MX porting specs straight into a DT barrel anyhow (assuming you thought that was a good idea, which it isn't). I assume that the DT and MX100 barrels are the same story.
So unless you also introduce a rule to prevent custom porting, then who cares whether its a DT or an MX barrel? Such a rule would be very hard to enforce.
I guess the LT2MX would fit into the same boat as the TS90MX - but as they were essentially kit bikes, it'd be hard to keep all of their bits off their 'standard' cousins.
I like the AHRMA idea of publishing a list of bikes that you CAN use. If it ain't on the list, you can't use it.
Here's the small list I started with.
Suzuki:: TS/TC 90, TS/TC100
Yamaha:: DT100, LT1, LT2, DT/GT80, AG100*
Honda:: SL100/125, CT90/110, XL100/125, XL75
Kawasaki::G3/G4/G5 100
Jawa 90...........
Hodakas?
Geminis?
Also..Do you think that making the cutoff pre'78 allows for too much of a development spread. One punter reckons pre '75 would be better. I'm not familiar with the product range to offer a serious opinion.
What ideas have you got to contribute.............................
Can't speak with any knowledge of the other brands, but:
A non-bubble-tank XL100 is definitely a nicer bike than the older SL/bubble tank XL100. Does that make it a faster MX bike? I don't know, but I suspect that the difference will be marginal.
In Yamaha land, the 74 and 77 model DT100s are basically identical, and the DT100 is heaps better than the LT1/2, so (provided you allow model run-ons) there's no difference whether its pre-75 or pre-78.
*This might sound like a weird addition, but the AG100 is basically the same bike as an LT2, but are much easier to get bits for.
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Firko .... what capacity is the cut off ??? I see you have Honda SL 100/125 but no mention of the TS 125
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2-stroke = 100cc
4-stroke = 125cc.
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I hope it pre78 and not pre75. Suzuki TC100s enter and some of the Honda CT125s as well. Common easier find old ag bikes that have no gains over earlier models but did sell in higher volumes. Cheap and easy to keep running.
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Ag bikes sounds good!
I'll be keen to try this as I'm in it for the participation and not the win!
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Ag bikes sounds good!
I'll be keen to try this as I'm in it for the participation and not the win!
Yup. Reckon. I was hoping to set up a 78 CT125 I have for the class. Has a nice big triangle seat for my fat arse. ;D ;D
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yup, keep it pre'75 cut off keeps everything on a level field. I don't see a problem with TS90MX's or MX100's personally as both of these models came directly from their trailbike brothers. There will always be people who go for the hotties but I believe another amendment to the rules should include 'unleaded pump fuel only - no racing fuels allowed permitted'
Add to the list
A100,A80 suzuki
CD90's/CD125's Honda
TMX100 Bridgestone
HT90 Yamaha
KE100 Kawasaki
'If' the XL75 makes the list and this is in reality is a mini, could this mean TS75's/50's and KM90 kawa's are eligable as well? Sure wouldn't hurt and they are not MX bikes ;)
Quicky if it's kept pre'75 the 2 piece head motor type such as the later CT125 will not be permitted. What's wrong with the SL100??
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Hmm
Doc just brought up the question
will there be fuel restrictions,
Methanol burning CL90
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j41/Tento850/DSCF2199.jpg)
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hence why I put that particular issue in my previous post Noel :D I specifically thought of the injected CT90's on gas! :o ;D Do I detect a late model CDI CT motor there? ;)
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I really dont see any advantage of this CT over the other.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii279/Quicksilver_032/bikepics-506243-full.jpg)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii279/Quicksilver_032/DSC00178.jpg)
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The main advantage is the size of the ports and the crank in the CT125 you can do a lot of work to the CT and it will keep going, thats why nearly all road race buckets are based on the late ct/sl/xl engine
The early engine is very limited you can only do so much before the crank gives out, it has tiny mains and a small rod.
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Quicky I have done both engines at times and made the same power from both.The two piece heads are nearly all post 75 mostly CDI. Some very early CT125 Agis (no XL125!!) as you have pictured may by there sneak in as built in 74.These very rare items all had points too not CDI. The bubble tank no problemo ;)Tim Oh I have one SL100 engine here on 220cc and have not shit a crank yet on it in 21years............................... ::)
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My recollection was that the XL75 was a larger bike than the XR75. More akin to the SL100/XL100 size, with 19/17" wheels, rather than 16/14".
Could be wrong, although I do recall seeing adults riding them without looking too silly.
Of the bikes mentioned so far, what's a rough order of competitiveness for mechanically stock examples?
My guess of the bikes I think I know anything about:
YZ100/RM100 (if you allowed pre-78)
Daylight.
TM100.
Daylight.
MX100.
TS90MX.
SL125.
DT100.
TS100.
LT2MX.
SL100.
TS90.
LT2/1.
Keep the jungle-juice out of it. The bikes that currently exist that run on it were built to fit into different categories - and will be free to keep running in those categories.
Maybe a rule that out-laws anything that was originally fitted with a 21" front wheel would be a good idea??!?
Actually, maybe that's all that's needed - limits on engine capacity and wheel size?????
The SL125 has a 21 though, doesn't it?
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Yeah Tim i've got a 215cc 10.5:1 comp SL100 (with your old pipe on it) that I use just as a muck around bike and its fine, no dramas but soon as you get them up to 14-15:1 as a 125cc they bend the rod when they are being held at revs. No one that runs in buckets at the moment that isn't using the late engine is even in the ballpark as far as speed goes, lots of guys have tried and the early engine just doesn't cut it. So it ends up being 2 races one for the guys on hot CT/SL 125 late engines and everyone else a mile behind.
You know what the old bucket class was like at Broadford I just reckon it was more fun when eveyone was on bikes of roughly the same speed. Everyone starts out saying "i'm just doing this for fun" but by the second round guys will be building hotties at least the earlier engines are self limiting, you can only do so much before they break
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Everyone starts out saying "i'm just doing this for fun" but by the second round guys will be building hotties...
Not me, but I can see most of you will have an absolute ball with the mods.
I'll be taking the lights off, number plates on and petrol in.
The whole concept is taking shape beautifully and there's a real buzz in the air - great init?!
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I like Nathans wheel idea. Why not have a rule stating that bikes must be fitted with the original sized wheels that came with the bike. I also think that keeping it pre '75 keeps the performance parameters within a cooeee of each other. I'm not an expert on those CT Hondas with the split head but I think you're leaving it pretty open to run a 185 or 200 engine on the sly. The early engine is restricted by its crank as mentioned and even a 150cc version isn't that much quicker than a 125. Also, keep the minis out. Make it for full sized bikes only. Let's not over complicate this. The KISS rule should prevail.
Add...Hodaka Ace 100, Bridgestone 90, Puch 100, Gemini 100 and what about allowing BSA Bantam 125s in.
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i think small forks were mentioned earlier and i agree with that one.
gimme the AG100 for sure! and where does that leave the good old Honda postie bike? should it be counted in too? i'd give it the thumbs up.
i also like the idea of some early model 80's but would be happy to just have a bike to share in the fun.
i'd imagine this category to take some time to refine.
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xr75/80's would have to be out as they can be modified to go well such as the one at cd4 and 06 nat's
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So glad I don't drink...... ::)
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Nathan mentioned theTS90 MX model and I have to admit that in my long time in this sport I've never seen one. My mate Chris Ellis terrorised the 125 class in Sydney for a few months in 1971`on a 100cc factory race kitted TS90 and I can still remember the bloke at Hazell and Moore, the Suzuki distributors at the time who were supporting Chris with a race kit and parts, telling him that they were'nt going to import the genuine MX version of the 90 because they wouldn't sell enough to make it worthwhile because they were too small to fit into the 125 class. Maybe a few came in to OZ (I believe that they were sold in NZ and the TM Bill has one) but there wouldn't be many. In any case all they are is a kitted trailbike similar in concept to the DT1MX and if someones got one they should be encouraged to race it.
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OOps Don't get me wrong I am totally "for" the stripped dunger idea !!!!! .Not modified to shit hot using modern technology !!!!! even having to use standard ignition systems !!!!and no split head Honda motors or reed valve conversions
Nathan XL75 where minicycles fitted with lights and ran the smaller wheels, XL70s were the follow up minicycles to the SL70s again with 16/14 wheels.
Cast barrel Yamaha AG100 (The real old Yella's)
Kawasaki G4TR
Poop loads of old pressed steel framed Jappo...
And any old small bore useless Pommies ?? BSA, Francis Barnett,Villiers etc Cheers Tim
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I like the general direction that this is heading, it will give me something to do with the XL100 I have.
There defininitly need to be some firm guide lines to stop the like of this:
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s120/coljay/superpostie.jpg)
A friend is building this engine to run in his modified postie bike at Lake Gairdiner. The crankcase are modified XL/SL125 and the topend is 1/4 (one cylinder and combustion chamber) of a 4 cylinder 600 Yamaha.
CJ
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Agree 100% Col. But that is a fine piece of inspired lunacy. Cannot run in Pre75 as that is a later split head type crank case....................... Yes they easy to pick!!!!!!!!!!!! ;) Tim
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Right, I am resurrecting the killer RV90... wonder if TM100 bits fit?
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Cool if the RV's are in i'm entering mine if i can get the missus off it .http://(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb130/yzhilly/RV90.jpg)
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Here's a bunch to start with...
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Assorted-bikes_W0QQitemZ180256005977QQihZ008QQcategoryZ102690QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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I think there's going to be some ebay sellers who get surprise with the number of bids their unwanted dungers get in the next few weeks. Even if the bids are in increments of $1.00.
I'm watching this post with great interest, and although I don't have much to add in terms of what should be in or out (given my complete lack of knowledge of the types of bikes in question) I'm really looking forward to seeing some sort of agreed list of suitable machinery.
Keep it up, this is the most interesting thread in a while, and no-one has started name calling yet.
BTW, I know where there's an mx100 that was bought for a kid who never rode it and it's been hidden under the kitchen sink of an old guy up north for the last 30 years wrapped in chux wipes.
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Here's a bunch to start with...
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Assorted-bikes_W0QQitemZ180256005977QQihZ008QQcategoryZ102690QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I know who has those. He used to come to the forums but I dont think his been back in a while. They are only about 2 hours from me if anyone needs help with storage or pick up.
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lets keep it really simple guys..too many rules already for what is supposed to be nothing more than a fun/novelty/family class! Stick with the
1975 cut off
up to 100cc 2 banger
up to 125cc 4 banger (NO overboring past 125cc)
No race fuels. Unleaded pump fuel only!
The bike must conform to the pre'75 suspension travel rules.
Stock wheels/sizes. Alloy rims okay if same dia.
Frame must be a stock frame although modifications are permitted as are engine swaps etc.
Stock ignition must be used!
No internal rotor ignitons but lightened stock flywheels are okay.
and the one rule that everyone 'MUST' obey!!
NO BLOODY SNIVELLING!! ::)
Cheaters will be shot and protesters flogged so lets have fun!!
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Can we add a sidecar class using the same basic rules but with capacity raised to 125cc for 2 strokes and 175 for 4 strokes?
This will give me something to do with a collection of very rough CD/SL175 Honda twins.
CJ
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100cc two stoke only!. Ah bugger that sucks ???. I was planning on using this but barrel says its 118cc. :'( Guess i'll be hitting the farms to scab up all the shit I left behind. ::)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii279/Quicksilver_032/DSC00176.jpg)
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Okay Quicky and Col, an amendment to the rules.
Pre '70 includes
125cc 2 smokers
175cc foursmokers
these are all just ideas ;)
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Okay Quicky and Col, an amendment to the rules.
Pre '70 includes
125cc 2 smokers
175cc foursmokers
these are all just ideas ;)
;D ;D That could work although I no ghave idea what year my old zook is. Looks pre70 but may not be. How can I get a year for it Doc.
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Quicky it's probably a '70 TC120 Cat but it could come under the follow on rule as it 'is' unchanged from the '69 model ;)
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lets keep it really simple guys..too many rules already for what is supposed to be nothing more than a fun/novelty/family class! Stick with the
1975 cut off
up to 100cc 2 banger
up to 125cc 4 banger (NO overboring past 125cc)
No race fuels. Unleaded pump fuel only!
The bike must conform to the pre'75 suspension travel rules.
Stock wheels/sizes. Alloy rims okay if same dia.
Frame must be a stock frame although modifications are permitted as are engine swaps etc.
Stock ignition must be used!
No internal rotor ignitons but lightened stock flywheels are okay.
and the one rule that everyone 'MUST' obey!!
NO BLOODY SNIVELLING!! ::)
Cheaters will be shot and protesters flogged so lets have fun!!
Sounds good. Some thoughts:
Maybe a limit of 19" front, 18" rear wheels would be the way to go? Some of those 'odd' tyre sizes are a bit hard to find nowdays... And 19" fronts can be had cheaply from ex-85cc racers, so that'd be high on my list of mods.
Frames... Do we want to stop people cutting off blinker mounts, or don't care?
I like Firko's original "no engine swap" rule, but think it could be a bit restrictive, seeing as so many bikes will be built from bits. Personally, I've got a heap of DT175A stuff, so I'd look at building a DT100 from one of them...
So I like Doc's "engine swaps are OK" rule, but I don't want to see it becoming a class for hybrids, either...
Maybe the answer is "Engine swaps are allowed only if the replacement engine bolts directly in place of the original" (or something similar).
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SL125 Stock front is a 21 steel. The 100 has a 19 inch steel. Think last of the LT100 yammies (Rare as) ran a 21inch too basically only difference from prior models.
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How many rules do you need to have what was termed "a trail bike class" ::)
Pre75 100cc 2 stroke and pre75 125cc 4 stroke Unmodified
Aftermarket parts to be equivalent, or as close as possible to OEM.
No mini's
Self governing/scrutneering
Unless you want this class to become a National Trophy, which I think would destoy the concept, then the less clauses to the rules the better.
Don't make up reasons for people to not want to ride/race, but make it easy and fun, the way it should be.
Or am I way of track??
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tell you what will happen the two strokes will eat the four stokes unless you restirct port size/number i have seen this happen in bucket racing.take a look at there rules it may help.possibly on the post classic racing site.
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Yes and No, DJ.
History has shown that 'open' regs work great at first, but its inevitable that people become overly competitive and start moving the class away from its original purpose.
The road race buckets are a great example of this: Nowdays they're hotbeds of tricky/creative engineering, and have SFA to do with their original roots as a super-low cost, low stress form of road racing. While I think that a lot of what happens in buckets is cool, the fact remains that its a very different category to the one that was originally envisioned.
Ditto any number of car racing categories (particularly IPRA).
Similarly, I'm sure that a lot of things have crept into the mainstream VMX world that were never originally intended/desired.
So.... The rules need to strike a balance between being as simple and unimposing as we want, and keeping the 'bracket creep' at bay.
Simple words like "unmodified" bring a world of pain, despite their flawless intentions.
Strictly speaking, a different set of handlebars, or gearlever makes a bike modified.
Less anally, what about things like different mufflers or pod filters?
These bikes are going to be built from piles of parts just as often as not, so there needs to be lee-way.
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Dont spose anyone has one of these Very very ugly things lying around do they?
a bloke might be coerced into parting with some pennies to enter this class if one was to be available.
Its ugly huh so maybe worth a carton of hot VB ;D
(http://dirtbike.off-road.com/dirtbike/data/articlestandard/dirtbike/232006/331926/rockfordtaka100.jpg)
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Oldschool,
I like the way you think. I had wondered about whether a YG1 was pre-65 legal, but took too long to work it out and the bike got sold.
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Your not quite correct with the bucket analogy Nathan, the reason new engines and capacities have come in is twofold. First and foremost racing wrecks engines that are never designed to race(finding the immediate weak point is catastrophic to), consequently people bought and hoarded all the bits they could (demand up supply down) Then some bright spark would find a bit from a different model that would bolt on and solve the current reliability problem.However that bike was not on the prescribed list and that make Timmy's illegal so off to the AGM so on and so on it would go...........Also there are several bikes that are still racing 20yrs later mind you they all go much faster, that's the whole idea of racing.
Second was 4T riders that when faced with a fast well tuned 2T immediately cried foul and demanded capacity increases, where by 2T riders demanded 125cc air cooled and ended up with 85cc water cooled and so on and so on...The more things change the more they stay the same.
I have no desire to 'race' one of these little shitters and I have a big shitter to race.I see some major flaws in the "must be pump fuel/standard ignition/exhaust port 70% of bore width/valve size XX inlet and YY Ex is whom is going to police all that?You might as well make it a free for all .I love to know when and where you'll be racing to....
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shit now i am going to have to find another bike >:(
i just sold a really good dt100 1974 original and running for $300
i was suprised how well it went :o
if i find any other little tacker bikes
will post on forum for what they cost to get ball rolling 8)
i cant believe i am typing this nearly all my bikes are 500cc :o
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tell you what will happen the two strokes will eat the four stokes unless you restirct port size/number i have seen this happen in bucket racing.take a look at there rules it may help.possibly on the post classic racing site.
Sorry Micks, I didnt realise Unmodified meant opening up ports etc, How dumb am I ::)
Ok Nathan, Yes I take your point, but this is where I believe that you guys get it all wrong (yes I'm going to take some crap for this) but what are you wanting this class for?? Nationals? Trophys? Competitive events? Bragging rights? The fun of it?
Simple words like "unmodified" bring a world of pain, despite their flawless intentions.
Strictly speaking, a different set of handlebars, or gearlever makes a bike modified.
Less anally, what about things like different mufflers or pod filters?
These bikes are going to be built from piles of parts just as often as not, so there needs to be lee-way.
"Unmodified" means just that Nathan, but yes Handlebars, gearshift levers etc because of breakages and worn out parts would be acceptable as in the second rule I mentioned, "Aftermarket parts to be equivalent, or as close as possible to OEM of pre75".
This would of cause apply to your airfilter as well (since you/everyone has the availibility to buy the foam and make your own).
The lee-way you talk of is the self governing/scrutneering.
This is the perfect class to leave the attitutes and protests at home. The more rules you write up the more people will want to push it to the letter of the law, or break them.
Let the riders of these bikes self govern, (who in this forum would stop someone from riding their bike because a folding gear shift was on it?) and you will find that "Unmodified" will mean "Unmodified".
So far the talk of wheel sizes, altering frames, changing electrics, different pipes etc and this class may as well be a free for all to do what ever one wants.
I ask the question, what part of "Unmodified" is hard to understand??
For a hybrid bike; if the motor is unmodified, the geometry of the frame is unmodified, the suspension unmodified etc etc. Then you have an "Unmodified Hybrid" and since the first rule says pre75, then you can only use parts off an equivalent aged bike.
Isn't this simple enough??
For the people who wish to push the boundaries, then maybe this class isn't for you, maybe you should be racing modern bikes??
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I'm with DJ on this. It's meant to be simple.
I understood the point of the 'Flies' class was to avoid the mega mods of the other VMX classes...the pushing of the boundaries for max performance - all the trick stuff etc.
What if we call it 'Dunger class'? Surely we can agree on what a dunger is...or not?
I've no sooner written this than I know it will be hosed down.
Whatever! I think 'the spirit' of this proposed class will be buzzing around at the back of the pack with like minded souls.
Look for me there.
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i think it's just all good bench racing fun fella's!
if the class gets up and running, it may well be different or changed after a twelve month go at it and a big old whoop-de-do to that.
step one, hit up our clubs for a novelty race featuring whatever piece of crap we think will qualify along the lines of what is discussed here.
step two, actually "have" the novelty race and see just what kind of feedback it gets.
step three, hang the prick thats got the "hot" SL125
step four, handicap start the fast bikes
or something like that anyway...
perhaps if, when CD6 rolls around, everyone could flood the track with these old piles of rubbish in a non-competitive manner to showcase the beginning of a new VMX era.
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Wondering if there are any classes for Vintage (pre-75) 100's down under? AHRMA runs a class for 100cc bikes with fat guys on them here in the U.S. ;)
Here is a pic of my little MX100 I plan to race at the next event. The fenders are cracked, but I have new ones to install this week. I think I'm just a set of shocks away from making her scream for mercy. ;D
(http://www.post-vintage.com/images/LilYammy.JPG)
Geez Red 8 pages later and there might be a class :D
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I was quite shocked by that myself. Here is a list of the eligible bikes in the AHRMA Vintage 100 class. The list eliminates the sleeved down Elsinores, but leaves the TM100 and Yamaha MX100.
By not giving out points towards a season championship or any trophies/awards at all, you could keep spending down. If anyone tries to run a heavily modded TM or MX they could be heckled or ridiculed/shunned out of the mix.
;)
11. I.4 100cc MOTOCROSS: 88-10 0cc two-stroke and 88-12 0cc four-stroke production motorcvcles
manufactured as up to 1974-model-vear machines, and like-design. All motorcvcles
in this class must have been manufactured 100cc or smaller-displacement bikes.
Eligible machines include:
Bridgestone
Bultaco Lobito or Sherpa S
DKW
Hodaka 90 or 100
Honda CT90 or CB/CUSL/XL100
Indian
Kawasaki 90 or 100
Moto Beta
Penton
Rickman-Hodaka
Sachs
Suzuki TC/TS 9O or TS/TM 100
Van Tech frames with any eligible engine
Yamaha YL1E, HT1 , LT2 or DTIMX 100
Zundapp
a.) Engine displacement can be increased to class limit, plus allowable overbore.
b.) Engines must have no more than five gearbox ratios.
c.) Electronic ignitions and reed-valves are allowed.
d.) Maximum carburetor size is 28mm.
e.) Aftermarket frames are limited to those listed. pending approval of the Rules &
Eligibility Committee.
f.) Engine/frame combinations must be as manufactured: no mixing-and-matching of
engines and chassis into "specials."
g.) Honda four-strokes are limited to the one-piece cylinder head. No major engine
components from 125cc enuines are allowed.
lneligible 100cc Motocross machines are:
Any machine or major component manufactured as/for a 125cc motorcycle.
Six-speed gearboxes of any tvpe.
Rickman frames oriainally manufactured for Zundapp engines.
Monarch frames.
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Just grab an old dunger, give it a service, whack in some new rings and go out and flog it. Thats my idea. ;D Fun fun fun it whats its all about.
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i cant believe i am typing this nearly all my bikes are 500cc Shocked
That's the whole idea Rusty, while we love the real deal and big bore opens and the full on MX bikes it's bloody nice to have the option of riding something very very sedate and simply going out and thrashing it within' an inch of it's life! :D it's fun, if you blow up the bike well big deal, it owes you next to nothing and you can simply get another ;D The ignition idea was to keep it all level.
I'd 'personally' change it a little to include other replacement ignitions as stated above but the rule about internal rotor ignition should remain. There is a huge gain to be had simply buy fitting 1 of the these ignitions.
You can go crazy with porting and engine mods, lightening this and that and modifying whatever else you like but remember 'in the spirit of the class' your bike has to run pump fuel with no octane boosters or additives (except 2 smoke oil) and it must be era!
Hybrids should be allowed if they conform to 'pre'75. Nothing wrong with an MX100 in a DT frame or TS100 motor in a TS90 or an SL125 in an SL100. It makes things a little easier to piece together is all and there really is no gain with such swaps.
Keeping the bikes stock as DJ says is a fine idea. Exhaust, mudguard and tyre swaps allowed but no other mods except the removal of lights etc. There will always be people who wish to win at all costs and sneakily slip in some extra performance from somewhere but eh, it's definately not right and eventually you'll be caught out and judged by your peers as a cheat, ya don't want that do you! ;)
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The TS 90 MX runs internal rotor ignition standard , so i take it its not elidgible :-\ or can i run it if i bolt on an external mag ignition ;)
Tahitian red is right :) anyone pushing the boundries should be shamed into giving up , keep it simple with minimal rules and let those invoved in the class police it :)
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i like the guidelines Tahitian's mentioned and think it makes a good startpoint.
no points toward any championship is cool...
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As much as it'd be nice to keep it all clean and neat by insisting the bikes remain stock standard, we all know that in the real world it won't work. It's been proven over and over in every low budget class, in all forms of motorsport, that people will always push the envelope. I like the AHRMA simplicity and feel that we could adapt their rules to suit our situation. I'm starting to be swayed by the pre 75 cut off to keep the performance parity within tighter control. I also feel that ignitions should be open as long as the replacement ignition fits the pre 75 criteria. That then bars later digital ignitions and big buck stuff like PVL and the like. Suspension should be 7" and 4" with a 32mm fork diameter limit. No emulators. Fork swaps would be allowed. Shocks should be restricted to period aftermarket or factory units. No YSS (Sorry Walter!) or Ohlin style shim style shocks. Works Performance would be OK as they were available prior to 1975. Frame mods are allowed in keeping with the technology of the day, ie lowered engine cradles, lengthened swingarm. Engine swaps allowed but all components must be pre '75. Reed valves OK but only using period bolt on kits like Gem etc or factory (Yamaha). No later welded reed blocks or V reeds. No tapered header pipes. Pipes must be period style dimensions. No fat centre sections. Wheel size must remain as fitted to the bike at the factory........That's it for a while, I've got to go to a kids rugby match, more later.
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Heres another potential racer
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=160560942
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Slightly off the subject...I notice that the AHRMA eligibility list bans Rickman frames that were originally intended for Zundapp engines but allows the Rickman Hodaka 100. That's a hard one to follow as the frames are absolutely identical, the only difference being the engine and pipe mounts. I wonder what the thinking is behind that decision?
While I was at the footy I was thinking about the wheel size allowances for the 100 class and the more I think about it, the more I believe that 21" front wheels should be allowed for all bikes. If, like I originally suggested, we restricted bikes to whatever wheels they were delivered from the18" and 19" front wheel bikes would be at a bit of a disadvantage over the 21" equipped bikes. I'm building a couple of Honchos which have 18" fronts and personally won't be putting 21" wheels on them, mainly because they look funny on a Honcho(I'll probably take the 19" option with a ts185 wheel) but I reckon the option should be there for anyone who wants to use one. The tyre choices are pretty ordinary for 18" and 19" fronts and bolt up 21" wheels are readily available for most of the bikes for cheap piss money.
I've mentioned it before but I reckon the bikes should be as presentable as possible. Remember always that people from outside of our movement are always ready to throw the shitbox tag at our loved machines so in a bid to keep our public face in good stead I'd want to see the bikes looking spic,n,span and looking like race bikes. I don't want to encourage mega dollar bling anodized and chrome plated show bikes as that's against the aim of our little exercise. What I'd like to see is low buck quality like what comes out of Docs shed. It's amazing what one can do with a $2.99 can of paint and a tube of metal polish. .....That's it for a little while. I'm off to Pacific Park for a trials event.
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I'll go with whatever rules are in place as I just want to ride the old trailies again! ;)
I agree we should keep the real dungers out and the bikes as stated should at least be tidy, presentable and in race worthy condition.
The SL100 owes about $400 I guess as it sits and will probably need another $100 to freshen up the motor a little before it ventures out.
(http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/8387/docreplicafm4.th.jpg) (http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=docreplicafm4.jpg)
The TS125 while definately not eligible is an example of another cheapy using era parts. Owes less than $500 as it sits ;)
(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/1124/satjune21th08004kd9.th.jpg) (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=satjune21th08004kd9.jpg)
As for wheel sizes well that is up to the individual. I've found on the slightly smaller than full size bikes (i.e. SL100 and TS100) the 21" front 18" rear isn't overly essential. I'll personally run the stock 19' fronts cause I like to keep the asthetics in proportion = keep it small :-\ up to yourselves.
why you can even get the whole family to help with the finishing off..or in this case the help of the ex Mrs Doc :P she actually does know her way around old engines better than one would assume. Here she be refitting my oil feed lines for me ;)
(http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/7322/satjune21th08003bb9.th.jpg) (http://img45.imageshack.us/my.php?image=satjune21th08003bb9.jpg)
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this is amazing 8 pages on a class that does`t exist (pics take up space i know).when in gereral discussion magoo has asked for input into some classes that do exist.evo and pre 85 and to date there is 3 pages.it would of been good to see 8 pages on this subject as it would help him and the committee address what could become a problem.
in the evo class there is a ruling stating that bikes will be OEM.this could be taken as unmodified.
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If I had imput for the Evo topic I would have added to it Micks. Have another look..there is actually 10 pages or more on this topic ;)
http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=1350.0 (http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=1350.0)
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Mick..Anyone who's been on this forum for any length of time can tell you that I've posted ad finitum with my opinions on the rules of our sport. I've been crunching rules for the vintage movement since 1986 and I'm now over it. While I understand and aplaud Magoo, Bahnsy and everyone else who's contributed, they're doing just fine without my help. I don't race evo or pre 85 and feel that any contributions wouldn't mean much and should come from the guys who are actually a part of that scene. I've been following the posts with interest and reckon the boys have it under control.
On the other hand, this particular subject seems to have taken on a life of its own because there has been a calling for a low cost, entry level class for yonks and up until now nobody had done anything positive in that direction. This 100cc dunger class came purely from a bit of fun amongst the old Kevlars over a couple of drinks. We figured that we'd build a couple of bikes just for our own entertainment. Then the more we talked it out,the more it looked like a good idea. The 8 pages of positive response proves that it might just be a better idea than we even thought. It seems that it's not just me who thinks that we need a little bit of FUN racing on CHEAP bikes.
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Dungers are a winner if keept simple, cheap and fun.
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as far as presentation goes, obviously the bike will need to be able to pass scrutineering so the usual preparation should apply. in most classes now, there seems to be a good spread of cheapies to bling so i don't see this potential class to be any different.
just got to get me that LT100 and get things started i spose
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How about these Hodakas for your new Moto 100 racing!
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Hodaka_W0QQitemZ160253569015QQihZ006QQcategoryZ29705QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Hodaka_W0QQitemZ160253569015QQihZ006QQcategoryZ29705QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
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Wow! Three Hodakas for $2150 'buy it now'.
Well spotted mboddy.
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Here's a couple of pics of Tim's SL125. The perfect bike for the Fly Class. Now, I wonder if I can find something like this? I reckon it sounds like brilliant fun.
(http://www.ozvmx.com/images/forum/sl125-3.jpg)
(http://www.ozvmx.com/images/forum/sl125-4.jpg)
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(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/3/1/6/2/7/5/webimg/145331401_tp.jpg)
i guess this would qualify as a shitter
Ulladulla $50
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/SUZUKI-MINI-MOTOR-BIKE-RESTORERS-DREAM_W0QQitemZ160253567847QQihZ006QQcategoryZ102690QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Wow! Three Hodakas for $2150 'buy it now'.
Well spotted mboddy.
Have you seen this before?
(http://www.spitfire.com.au/~mboddy/hodaka_ad2.jpg)
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;D ;D ;D ;D Check that "Road Racing" pic, and is Jimmy Joe holding a shotgun or a banjo in the last pic???
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This is what I would want to race.
(http://www.spitfire.com.au/~mboddy/SR100Add.jpg)
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Pokey, I have no idea what bike that is you posted! It's a mini and not eligible but...while the motor ain't worth shit and looks like an A80 the chassis is what has me intrigued..it's definately not a suzuki and I don't recognize it period..maybe someoone else does but yup..it's the right condition and price but wrong size :P ironically my friend Buz in the US just sent me some pics of a TS100 he was offered this morning for $100..it's a bloody ripper and just what I'd near kill for here :'( bugger it being 7000miles away! :D
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why I like this one so much is mine was near the same..the original 1975ish version of Lord of the Flies :P
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Yeah, I dunno Doc...that seat is waaay serious MX!
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yes Wombat I was not so silly obviously, I knew the serious speed was to be had by fitting mighty TM125 wheels and not an RM seat!! :D
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I love it! The bike, that haircut, those boots - it screams 70s!!
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:D it screams 'budget' as always but eh..it was great fun for the buck ;D
I was actually a very lucky kid to have a bike I could call my own ;)
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Did you notice that in the description of the bike pokey posted, it said "restorers dream" ?
More like nightmare!
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Any other ideas or pics of possible contenders? :D
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you could run a '65 K15 Hillbilly or similar too :P IF you are intent on finishing last that is! Might have to drag this old beast out to unleash it's 8 raging ponnies! :D
(http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/8528/1965k15hillbilly80ccnd3.jpg)
this class is limited only by the 100/125cc ruling and ones imagination ;)
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How about this little gem
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/penton.jpg)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=250262647445 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=250262647445)
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I love that photo Doc! A real time piece for the little tacker in years to come.
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you just made me sit and think for a sec with that statement Wombat ;) your right, when this little kid hits 40, 'if' he looks at this photo it will, to him, seem like more than a lifetime ago and more vintage than 2006. I shall more than likely be but a memory myself but if an unknown tried to date it by the bike or the atire then they'll probably be about 30 years out :D your right, it shall be preserved, I need some organization for this stuff as I lost some forever just recently :-\
Firko, the Penton is sweet, Love the bazooka styled pipe! I assume it's the one that got pulled?
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Firko, your on a winner here, which is obvious by the feedback, I raced a Honcho in open motocross in about 1970, I had a new Honcho trail bike on the road at the time and picked up a smashed but as new bike at Bill Morris, Jens Olsen and Bill assisted me in building the smash into a race bike, pipe, porting etc. I had a ball on the Honchos and would love to find another for this idea you have, count me in!!
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No Doc, it's the Cheney Yamaha that got pulled. I don't need a Sachs Penton but it would be a cool little bike, neutrals galore and all.
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There is major interest in the dunger class. Soooo Is it a go? Will this happen?
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hmmm..the TS100 in briz has juuuuust finished on egay..$239..well done keeping the price sensible guys..now fess up..who's the lucky winner? ;D Wombat?? oldfart??
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OK I confess
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:D :D :D I knew it!! good price though Stew and I'd even thought of having a go only I need it like a hole in the head and you had already mentioned it and wombat would have been thinking seriously about it I assume ;D a city of what..2 million or something and the buyer could not have been more predictable :D
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My first trick part for the KK Honcho. A genuine Torque Engineering pipe, circa 1972 for 50 bucks. Too cool.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/honchopipe.jpg)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190122211869&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=009#ebayphotohosting (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190122211869&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=009#ebayphotohosting)
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Anyone got one of the old aftermarket upswept or downswept pipes with megaphone or muffler to suit Honda SL100/125 ? Please (certain Honcho owners are getting very uppity!!) ;) Tim754. :D
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ok you people with a fondness for small things :-*
we might run a novelty race for them at conondale classic 8)
will need about 15 bikes they will have to be scrutineered like the rest of them
it not set in concrete yet but it might happen if there is time in schedule
possibly 125 4 stroke and 100 2 stroke i think ???
open to suggestions ;D
start looking ::) remember its not a definate yet but its a step in right direction ;)
shit i knew i should not have sold that dt100 :'(
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Jeez! now I'll have to drag the SL up there for the Blowfly class as well :D I really got to get my trailer happening again cause my logistics just got tossed out the window after reading Holeshots post ::) I'm in!! least I hope, need to chase up a points cover and a few spare batteries ;D is Motul in on the deal this year?? I may need a small tanker of engine oil as well if my suspicions hold true :D
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I have heaps of points covers Doc , You want plain or with "125' embossed on it ? All polished and shiny. Will post you one when I knows what you want. Tim
We used to get easily 70+ minutes out of a battery, so don't waste too much buying many of them, only watch them sulphate up and croak not being used.
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You want me to get my nice new chrome mudguards dirty, no way ;D
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Tim just a plain cover would be most wonderful and most joyous!! it's not a 125 so I won't pretend it is :D and 70 minutes..wow!! amazing..still gonna give her a shot without the flywheel and see if it self destructs :P ummm..what the heck was it I was supposed to send you recently?? TM75 something or other??..and Nathan, I have the gear levers in a semi addressed box but the box is still on the bench..can I have the balance of your address please and I'll get them off to you ;) umm, now why was I here?..ummm..where is here! ??? oh..the Fly class that's right..Stew! to stay clean you can lead the way okay, there's no prizes for winners from what I'm lead to believe :D
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I'm getting ready... ;D
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230266458133
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=022&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=350030559105&rd=1
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thats a nice little LT CG!
and in your neck of the woods too!
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This little fella is on USA eBay at the moment, Item number: 130238955429
Probably too pretty for the dunger class.
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No minis.
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How nice is this for the class? Kwaka 100
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/Kawasaki100.jpg)
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i love the big square number plate look and reckon that theme would be right at home with the moto 100's
nice bike too!
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A preview to next years debut of the Blowfly 100 class...........
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/dungerrace.jpg)
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NOW THAT IS CLASSIC ;) :D
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and not a full face helmet in sight.
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A preview to next years debut of the Blowfly 100 class...........
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/dungerrace.jpg)
No.88's got the "Red-mist" so bad its fogged up his visor
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thats funny cyclegod hehehe
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Firko, I couldn't find the draft rules for the Dunger class. Do you have the url?
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Mike...Here's the original draft that should be on the VMX website but I too couldn't find it.http://www.vmxmag.com.au/ (http://www.vmxmag.com.au/). It was left out of the magazine piece due to space restrictions. Remember though that these "rules" are only a proposal, put up to open debate on what should and shouldn't be allowed. The below regs are merely Klub Kevlars idea of what it should be and we don't want potential 100 class racers to think that we are the governing body of Moto 100, Blowfly, Dunger..call it what you like. It's merely a draft proposal and further debate is strongly encouraged.
.THE 100cc DUNGER CLASS (for want of a better name).
The class is open to all pre 1975 trail or enduro style machines that were originally road registerable. No machines originally designated for motocross competition are eligible. All street equipment such as lighting, side and centre stands, switchgear and superflous brackets and gizmos should be removed. Owners are encouraged to present the bikes in neat and well maintained race like condition in an endevour to instill some pride of ownership and to present a professional attitude to outsiders who are quick to throw the “shitbox” tag at our beloved vintage rides at the best of times. They’d have a field day with these low budget bikes if they weren’t presented in the best light. We don’t envision spending shitloads on anodizing and chrome bling, that’s not what the dungers are about. We know from experience that you can achieve miracles with a couple of $2.99 spray paint cans, a tube of metal polish and a bit of tasteful lateral thinking.
CAPACITY: 100 cc two stroke
125 cc four stroke. Overbores to factory maximum only. No stroker cranks.
ENGINE:
* Aftermarket heads not allowed, cylinders from designated motocross models not allowed although GYT and Suzuki Race Kit cylinders and heads designated for the modification of trail type bikes are allowed.
*Ignition can be changed but it must be from the same parent manufacturer and be manufactured prior to 1975. For example, Yamaha points ignition can be replaced by MX/YZ CDI ignition. No post 1975 ignitions are allowed unless they are the same as the pre 1975 version. No PVL, Krober, Interspan or other aftermarket ignition allowed.
*Exhaust can be changed but replacement 2 stroke pipes must be of period design. No tapered header pipes or “fatty” style centre sections or pipes from later era bikes allowed. Four stroke pipes must be made from steel. No titanium. All bikes must meet the MA 96db sound limit.
*Maximum carburetor size is 28mm. All carbs must be of round slide, period design. No power jet or later style carbs allowed.
*No race fuels, methanol or nitromethane. (don’t laugh. Nitro used to be a very popular fuel with some SL125 dirt track racers in the early vintage days!) Unleaded pump fuel only.
CHASSIS:
*Suspension travel is limited to 7” front and 4” rear. Maximum fork diameter is 32mm. No “Gold Valve” style cartridge emulators are allowed. Forks can be swapped from one make to another but forks must fit the pre 1975 cutoff criteria.
* Modern style gas shocks with external dampening adjustment (Ohlins, YSS, Falcon, Reiger etc)are not allowed in the interest of keeping costs down. All shocks must be of period appearance and design. Works Performance must use early finned alloy body. Early Marzocci style piggyback shocks allowed.
*Chassis modifications are allowed but must be sympathetic with engineering parameters of the time. Swingarms can be lengthened a maximum of 2”(50mm). Engine cradles can be lowered a maximum of 1” (25mm). Swingarms must be steel, no aftermarket alloy swingarms. Steering head modifications are not allowed in the interest of safety. Steering geometry can be changed by the use of different offset triple clamps. Triple clamps must be manufactured prior to 1975.
*Engine swaps are permitted but all components must fit the Dunger class and Pre 1975 criteria.
* In order to make tyre choice easier, front wheel size can be changed to 21”. Back wheel is limited to 18” unless a different size came standard with the bike. Rims can be changed to alloy. Single leading shoe brake only unless a twin leader fitted as standard at the factory.
MISCELLANEOUS: Period aftermarket plastic or alloy tank and period fenders such as Preston Petty, Pacifico, etc are allowed as long as the original period look of the bike is maintained. Aftermarket mods that change the period integrity of the bike are not permitted. Rubber footpegs are encouraged to be changed to serrated style in the interest of safety.
*The MA Manual of Motorsport rules for pre 1975 motocross and dirt track should be the overriding regulatory document if a particular point isn't mentioned in the above regs.
The most important thing is to have fun and to respect the spirit of the era. If you feel the need to cheat and get caught out, cop it sweet and fix whatever is wrong with the bike. This is a fun class that we hope can exist without bad attitude.
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Why so complicated Firko ???.
No fork modifications alowed externally and internally . No Gas shocks allowed . Simple .
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so what colour number plates do you think we should have on these little beauties folks?
and me personally, i like the idea of the BIG SQUARE number plates.
just to throw another theme into the mix.
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Budget racing it is, rules are simple :) Time to get off my A and make an effort for next year ;D
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Why so complicated Firko .
No fork modifications alowed externally and internally . No Gas shocks allowed . Simple .
We discussed this one a bit Walter and initially had similar wording to yours but figured we'd add more expanation to allow for period fork mods like altering the damper holes and or valving and using those little aftermarket Trik-it fork kits. It also allows for allowing heavier or lighter springs and period air fork caps to be used. I reckon part of the fun of this class will be the use of homemade hot rod mods to achieve better handling without spending huge dollars.
With shocks we originally were going to allow any shock you chose but then figured that some racers with more disposable cash than most could spend more on shocks that the bikes's worth. There were gas shocks available in the day like Girlings and Boge so we figured that restricting the amount of technology would be a simpler plan rather than just plain 'no gas shocks'. As you well know more tham most of us, the more technology you put into a shock, the more it costs. It's all about keeping the big dollar parts out more than restricting the technology per se. That's why I'd allow early Works shocks with the alloy finned body because you can get 'em cheap as anything on eBay and the technology is from the period. Piggyback Marzoccis, Arnacos, alloy Konis, Curnutts and other period aftermarket shocks and even your own Bravo series shocks would also fit into the concept. By just having the blanket "no internal or external fork mods and no gas shocks" it doesn't allow for the backyard period mods that we'd hope to see on these bikes. That's my 2c worth anyway :-\.
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With any restricted class you will find , that policing will be a nearly impossible task . The people that want to have the edge , will find a way. For example the marzocchis , you take a pair of legal marzocchis , gut them and extrnally you would not know a thing . The cost to do that would be far more than a pair of nonadjustable E 302 .....( or in this case a C302) I think by allowing some gas shocks you will open that can of worms. If you have no restrictions , it will regulate it self . As you know yourself , a little bike like you are talking about, does not permit to fit any shock with spring ID 46 technically , so you are eliminating this option for technical and optical reasons. Next thing would be , du to the complexity and zize of an adjustable modern shock , the actions of the units would be to harsh , due to the low activating weight.
The other thing is also , with a looming severe resession just around the corner , we might only be talking hyperthetically.
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Fair call Walter, I bow to your wisdom on shocky technology. The bottom line is that no matter what you do to the bikes, as long as you can't see it, who's going to know what's going on uderneath? I can't see too many protest tear downs going on so it's mainly down to your own honesty and how much winning a 100 dunger class is going to contribute to your self esteem!
With the impending hard financial times maybe this class is the low buck ''class we were meant to have", to paraphrase the great Paul Keating.
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Those regs are pretty good Firko. My additions/alterations in blue, and deleted stuff in green - most alterations are simply to cull unnessacary words and thereby simplify the rules:
THE 100cc FLY CLASS .
The class is open to all pre-1975 trail or enduro style machines that were originally road registerable. No machines originally designated for motocross competition are eligible. All street equipment such as lighting, side and centre stands, switchgear and superflous brackets and gizmos should be removed. Owners are encouraged to present the bikes in neat and well maintained, race-ready condition. in an endevour to instill some pride of ownership and to present a professional attitude to outsiders who are quick to throw the “shitbox” tag at our beloved vintage rides at the best of times. They’d have a field day with these low budget bikes if they weren’t presented in the best light. We don’t envision spending shitloads on anodizing and chrome bling, that’s not what the dungers are about. We know from experience that you can achieve miracles with a couple of $2.99 spray paint cans, a tube of metal polish and a bit of tasteful lateral thinking.
*The MA Manual of Motorsport rules for pre 1975 motocross and dirt track should be the overriding regulatory document if a particular point isn't mentioned in the following regs.
CAPACITY: 100 cc two stroke
125 cc four stroke.
Overbores to factory maximum only. No stroker cranks.
ENGINE:
* Aftermarket heads not allowed, cylinders from designated motocross models are not allowed. although GYT and Suzuki Race Kit cylinders and heads designated for the modification of trail type bikes are allowed.
*Ignition can be changed but it must be from the same parent manufacturer and be manufactured prior to 1975. For example, Yamaha points ignition can be replaced by MX/YZ CDI ignition. No post 1975 ignitions are allowed unless they are the same as the pre 1975 version. No PVL, Krober, Interspan or other aftermarket ignition allowed.
*Exhaust can be changed but replacement 2 stroke pipes must be of period design. No tapered header pipes or “fatty” style centre sections or pipes from later era bikes allowed. Four stroke pipes must be made from steel. All bikes must meet the MA 96db sound limit.
*Maximum carburetor size is 28mm. All carbs must be of round slide, period design. No power jet or later style carbs allowed.
*No race fuels, methanol or nitromethane. (don’t laugh. Nitro used to be a very popular fuel with some SL125 dirt track racers in the early vintage days!) Unleaded pump fuel only.
CHASSIS:
*Suspension travel is limited to 7” front and 4” rear. Maximum fork diameter is 32mm. No “Gold Valve” style cartridge emulators are allowed. Forks can be swapped from one make to another but forks must fit the pre 1975 cutoff criteria.
* Modern style gas shocks with external dampening adjustment (Ohlins, YSS, Falcon, Reiger etc)are not allowed in the interest of keeping costs down. All shocks must be of period appearance and design. Works Performance must use early finned alloy body. Early Marzocchi style piggyback shocks allowed.
*Chassis modifications are allowed but must be sympathetic with engineering parameters of the time. Swingarms can be lengthened a maximum of 2”(50mm). Engine cradles can be lowered a maximum of 1” (25mm). Swingarms must be steel, and of period design no aftermarket alloy swingarms. Steering head modifications are not allowed in the interest of safety. Steering geometry can be changed by the use of different offset triple clamps. Triple clamps must be manufactured prior to 1975.
*Engine swaps are permitted but all components must fit the Dunger class and Pre 1975 criteria. Engine swaps are only permitted where the replacement engine is a direct bolt-in fit to an unmodified frame. Both the frame and the engine must be from Fly-class eligible bikes.
* In order to make tyre choice easier, front wheel size can be changed to 21”. Back wheel is limited to 18” unless a different size came standard with the bike. Rims can be changed to alloy. Single leading shoe brake only unless a twin leader fitted as standard at the factory.
MISCELLANEOUS:
Period aftermarket plastic, fibreglass or alloy fuel tank and period fenders such as Preston Petty, Pacifico, etc are allowed provided the period look of the bike is maintained. Aftermarket mods that change the period integrity of the bike are not permitted.
No titanium components are allowed. Rubber footpegs are encouraged to be changed to serrated style in the interest of safety.
The most important thing is to have fun and respect the spirit of the era. If you feel the need to cheat and get caught out, cop it sweet and fix whatever is wrong with the bike. This is a fun class that we hope can exist without bad attitude.
------------------
Stuff like the 21/18" wheel thng is redundant and simply add words to the regs. Ditto specifying that bikes must meet the noise limit.
My understanding is that engine swaps were very uncommon in these sorts of bikes back in the day, so I don't think that they should be allowed now. However, given that many of these bikes shared their frames/running gear with other bikes (eg: DT100/125/175), then there's no reason to prohibit the use of a 175 or 125 frame if a 100 frame cannot be found. My re-wording attempts to reflect this, but currently fails.
Apart from anything else, my gut feeling is that a DT100 motor in a TS100 frame would be the hot ticket - but allowing such swaps takes two bikes out of the pool.
I'm dubious of the shock thing as currently written, but greater minds are already on the task, so I'll keep my mouth shut on that topic.
The 'original ignition thing' is just a nightmare waiting to happen, IMHO. For example, if you're going to build a Yamaha, the only available electronic ignition would be the YZ125A bit - which are hardly thick on the ground.
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And because that's a lot harder to read than I intended, here's 'my' clean version:
THE 100cc FLY CLASS .
The class is open to all pre-1975 trail or enduro style machines that were originally road registerable. No machines originally designated for motocross competition are eligible. All street equipment such as lighting, side and centre stands, switchgear and superflous brackets and gizmos should be removed. Owners are encouraged to present the bikes in neat and well maintained, race-ready condition.
*The MA Manual of Motorsport rules for pre 1975 motocross and dirt track should be the overriding regulatory document if a particular point isn't mentioned in the following regs.
CAPACITY: 100 cc two stroke
125 cc four stroke.
Overbores to factory maximum only. No stroker cranks.
ENGINE:
* Aftermarket heads not allowed, cylinders from designated motocross models are not allowed. GYT and Suzuki Race Kit cylinders and heads designated for the modification of trail type bikes are allowed.
*Exhaust can be changed but replacement pipes must be of period design. No tapered header pipes, or pipes from later era bikes allowed.
*Maximum carburetor size is 28mm. All carbs must be of round slide, period design. No power jet or later style carbs allowed.
*No race fuels, methanol or nitromethane. Unleaded pump fuel only.
CHASSIS:
*Suspension travel is limited to 7” front and 4” rear. Maximum fork diameter is 32mm. No “Gold Valve” style cartridge emulators are allowed. Forks can be swapped from one make to another but forks must fit the pre 1975 cutoff criteria.
* Modern style gas shocks with external dampening adjustment (Ohlins, YSS, Falcon, Reiger etc)are not allowed. All shocks must be of period appearance and design. Works Performance must use early finned alloy body. Early Marzocchi style piggyback shocks allowed.
*Chassis modifications are allowed but must be sympathetic with engineering parameters of the time. Swingarms can be lengthened a maximum of 2”(50mm). Engine cradles can be lowered a maximum of 1” (25mm). Swingarms must be steel, and of period design. Steering head modifications are not allowed. Steering geometry can be changed by the use of different offset triple clamps. Triple clamps must be manufactured prior to 1975.
*Engine swaps are only permitted where the replacement engine is a direct bolt-in fit to an unmodified frame, using original engine mounts. Both the frame and the engine must be from Fly-class eligible bikes.
MISCELLANEOUS:
Aftermarket plastic, fibreglass or alloy fuel tank and fenders such as Preston Petty, Pacifico, etc are allowed provided the period look of the bike is maintained. Aftermarket mods that change the period integrity of the bike are not permitted.
No titanium components are allowed.
The most important thing is to have fun and respect the spirit of the era. If you feel the need to cheat and get caught out, cop it sweet and fix whatever is wrong with the bike. This is a fun class that we hope can exist without bad attitude.
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I agree with you YSS. Allowing fork & shock mods brings in the dreaded travel issue, also $$$. Why not allow fork leg swaps, like engine swaps - so long as the forks were not off a competition machine, were pre 75, and were not mechanically modified in any way.
Rear shocks can be same as fork legs, must use the same top mounting as standard.
Let's get away from this 7in front, 4in rear stuff, this is a fun class. I'd be surprised if any standard pre75 trail bike suspension got near these figures, so it's a non-event.
Given the issue though, that most(I think) pre75 trail type shocks are not rebuildable, then a suitably low cost steel body non adjustable control shock could be an option, if one exists.
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my comments relate to methanol,
you can buy industrial methanol cheaper that pump fuel .
and it is also the cheapest way to get performance with reliability out of small four strokes ,
and then there's the smell ;D and the sound of a High comp fourstroke Viva La difference
cheers
Noel
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All those rules will do is favour any one who weighs 60kgs.Something like this would perhaps easier to understand and police.
*To be eligable to race the combined weight of the machine and rider be 170kgs(for example).*
*To be determined by a set of bathroom scales attached to a plank, placed under each wheel.*
Done
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All those rules will do is favour any one who weighs 60kgs.
Does it really matter? I see this a a fun category, a bit of a diversion. If parity becomes a problem, start the fat guys on row one and the skinnies on row two and let them off 10 seconds later or something similar. I've already started on my TS90. It's refreshing that we can have a fun class with little financial outlay. I think the challenge will be to stop the porting tool from becoming overused, creating expensive and fragile timebombs a'la bucket racing. Keep it cheap and simple.
I'm with Noel on methanol as long as it's only methanol. The only problem I can see is that methanol is the preferred mixing agent for nitro. The SL125 Nitro thing really does, or at least did exist in vintage dirt track as anyone who raced at Condo in the 90s will well know.
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this is getting crazy guys! Nitro! Methanol! this is a bottom of the barrel budget class please don't wreck it with over zealous ego's, engineering, technology and $. The rules are really pretty simple and the whole idea of this class is 'FUN on a budget' not to be confused with 'winning at all costs!' ;)
I reckon take away any awards/titles for race winners and instead give awards/titles for 'most era' - 'most messed with' - 'most original' - 'most stylish' - 'most distressing' - 'most crashes' - 'most patience' and 'most breakdowns and heartache'
Jeez, I'm just going to ride a smokey ol' SL100 and I have nil plans for any go fast mods but I DO have big plans of having a fat time riding it! ;D
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You can do some weight saving by not up sizing at macas.
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gumboots are compulsory ;D
as if there's aren't enough already ::)
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My Problem is ,
I built my budget fly class racer 4 years ago before the rules .
I will cost me more to convert it back to run on pump fuel,
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j41/Tento850/DSCF2199.jpg)
This bike was picked up from a throw out pile and the motor came from the tip
apart from a rebore and cam, tyes and paint all the rest home made and out of spares pile in garage= budget
Noel
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Will there be a sub-class for bikes with dual-range transmissions? I seem to be a magnet for them ATM.
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Giday
Why not make it up to 125cc 2stroke so at1 yamahas ect could run in the class?
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sorry DG, but 100cc 2 smokers is the max!
and the first lap everyone must stand up for the entire lap. unless you only have one leg, then you get to stand up for half a lap.
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Damn !! bet my Nitrous oxide kit is out too!! :D :D Looks good Firko! Found a use for one of my stock SL125 engine. :) :) :)
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I'm more than happy with Nathans revisions of our original proposal. The extra words I had in were there because it was a part of a magazine article aimed at people who had never followed the original thread on this forum. I'm still not convinced about allowing methanol but seeing that most potential punters seem to not care about winners or losers and seem to agree with my personal take that it'd be more fun if we had trophies for the best presented bike, the best berm shot, the best bit of airtime or the most entertaining crash and burn...that sort of thing. For that reason I think it'd be a prick act to refuse Noel and his cool little methanol Honda. The last thing this "class" needs however is a win at all costs mentality with punters spending shitloads on mega porting and state of the art pipes and ignitions. Take away the winning and there'd be no need to spend stupid money.
I dropped my ex bucket racing super ported TS90 barrel on the garage floor and broke off the bottom of the sleeve, ruining it. I was a bit pissed off but in retrospect it was the best thing that could have happened. I'll keep the little puppy fairly stock now and It'll be a much nicer bike to ride.
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Pump fuel it is ... so don't try and bend the rules, as it will open the flood gates all types of senarios .
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And only caster based oils in the 2 strokes :D Mmmm that scent!!! , Hey oldfart can I put a cap full of R30 or R40 caster in with the stinky unleaded for upper cylinder lube on the SL125? Ok is really just to make it smell nicer :D :D :D :)
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found a use for the ts 100 now ;D
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Firko, what's the logic behind 32mm forks?
Best as I can guess, none of the eligible bikes came with anything that big, so 32 seems to be a bit of a random number.
I'd suggest that either the largest diameter originally fitted to an eligible bike, or 34mm would be the wy to go (34mm still excludes all of the 'good' forks from the era).
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Nathan, we went with 32mm forks to keep the suspension within the 100-125 class standard of the day. While none of us are totally up to date with our knowledge of these tiddlers, we guessed that most of them would have had 28-30mm forks as standard so figured that a logical update would be to use 32mm forks that were available on the next generation trailies and 125 MXers. 32mm Betors, Yamaha and other Jap brands seemed to be fairly common and would be a cheap upgrade. My personal thoughts are that we should keep the 34-35mm 250 forks out of the equation purely for aesthetic and cost factors. Using 32mm forks uses up parts that are overlooked by serious 125 class racers who often opt for the fatter and more stable 250 model forks.....
Still, as I said originally, our proposal is purely a platform to work from and is merely the result of a bunch of old boys throwing ideas around one Sunday arvo over a carton of Kozel. Maybe a 34mm limit is more feasible, what do others think?
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i reckon 30mm units are absolute crap! and therefore perfect for the moto~100class.
i've got the 34mm from the 250 on my MX125a and they work pretty good.
keep it simple i reckon and 30~32 is fine for me even though i don't own a descent set.
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Just for the sake of having a reference, I've done some measuring of forks:
1. Yamaha AT1/CT1/early twinshock DT125/175, Early AG100 = 30mm.
2. Kawasaki G4TR = 30mm.
3. Suzuki TC90, TC100, and TS185 = 30mm. TS90, TS100, TS125.
4. Honda SL100 = 31mm. SL125, bubble tank XL100/125.
5. Yamaha DT175 late (post 75) twin shock/early mono = 31mm.
Bikes in red have NOT been measured, but are educated guesses.
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Out of curiosity, What bikes come with 34mm forks? I'm only aware of TM/TS Suzuki and assumed that most of the over pre '75 250cc Japanese bikes had 35mm forks.
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DT2/3 (and probably DT1, but you'd have a better idea than me on that one).
RT1/2/3.
DT250 (all).
DT360/400 (all).
MX250/360 (all)
YZ250A/B.
YZ360A/B.
YZ125C.
The monoshock version have the same travel as the twinshock versions, but have about 30mm more total length (all in the upper tube). They could be shortened to be indistingushable from the twin-shock versions, if you were so inclined.
The YZs' upper tube have a reduced diameter between the triple clamps.
Internals are all essentially the same, despite the expected damping tweaks across models.
Lower legs are all essentially the same, but there are small differences WRT drain screw location and mudguard mounts.
They've got longer travel than the 30mm units fitted to the 125/175 Yammies.
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Anyway, the reason I brought it up, is that I feel that 32mm is the worst of both worlds: Its neither "Stop taking this too seriously - Just use the stock stuff", nor does it really allow you to fit a decent pair of forks.
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I kinda like " just use the stock stuff ". I'm troubled by " logical updates " using forks from next generation trailies & MX bikes, when the original concept was simplicity, low cost, FUN, and class rules consisting of 2 sentences or less. There are plenty of other classes in VMX where you can demonstrate engineering prowess(?), and argue about eligibility, etc.
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I kinda like " just use the stock stuff ". I'm troubled by " logical updates " using forks from next generation trailies & MX bikes, when the original concept was simplicity, low cost, FUN, and class rules consisting of 2 sentences or less. There are plenty of other classes in VMX where you can demonstrate engineering prowess(?), and argue about eligibility, etc.
Yep, what he said. It's all getting too serious to call them 'Dungers' anymore.
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And here I was thinking Yamahas had 35mm forks! My memory ain't what she used to be. ::) My reasons against using 34 mm forks are purely cost based. If 34mm forks were allowed I could use the reasonably expensive NOS 34mm Redwing forks I have tucked away on my Honcho 90. I'd hate to see that kind of "high" tech introduced as it goes against the whole concept of the class. By limiting the fork diameter to 32mm I reckon it keeps the original low tech cheapo concept intact but allows a couple of extra milimetres of diameter to encourage a bit of cheap hot rodding and to open up accessibility to a broader amount of suitable rust free (and cheap) forks.
On Mike 1948s and Wombats points on keeping them all stock, that would be OK if we were finding decent running bikes to start with. All you'd have to do is knock off the headlight and blinkers and off you go. Unfortunately I'd reckon that most of us would be starting with rusty old puss buckets that will need some sort of refurbishment. By allowing some "logical updates" it opens up the parts availability window just a little to enable us access a broader range of cheap parts. If you examine the mods allowed in the rules they aren't so much about performance but more about allowing for a bigger choice of cheap parts. For this class, like most things we do in our lives we need some simple ground rules to keep it all in perspective. We've proposed that certain modifications should be allowed because, as racers, it's in our blood to modify our bikes anyway. For the class to be successful we think that these bikes should also reflect a certain amount of pride of ownership and reflect the individuality of their owners, otherwise it just becomes a VMX version of speedways fender benders or shitbox racing.
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Out of curiosity, how many of you, both regulars and lurkers, are genuinely building or considering to build a bike for the Moto 100/Dunger/Blowfly class? Three of us are building bikes and I know of two more. Are people fair dinkum about getting involved in this or is this destined to be just another cyber racer talkfest? ???
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I will, but I've just got to work out which bike... My shed's three obvious contenders (TC100, SL100, G4TR) are all pretty decent bikes and I'm reluctant to turn any of them into a race bike... ::)
My heart is in a DT100 or LT2, or a TS100.
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Mine is already built (for about 18 years..) Bog stock SL125 engine , stripped of lights but still runs charge system for battery ( ignition),, Has agi bike steel footpegs, bloody necessary! also fitted with none standard from said mid 70s CT125 agi bike front forks too, hows that for a real waste of time and energy mod??? :D see page nine of this thread for photos under Greames name :) Cheers Tim..... the stock muffler will be replaced.... ;)
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Forks and rear shockys are rooted besides that shes ready to rock in roll TS 100
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I'm currently searching for a suitable bike (or 2), as I feel strongly in favour of this class of racing. Over the last few years, current VMX bike costs have severely stretched the budget, and I'll probably be broke when the VB reaches the" looks just right " stage.
I think a SL100/125, DT100 or ts100, though I have a friend who used to race a Bridgestone 90 with a 100 barrel and noisy pipe which could run with any 125 in pre 70. Pity it has a pressed steel frame/swing arm which tried to bend into a U shape each meeting.
Bultaco used to have a Lobito 100 model scrambler which came with or without lights, Tiny little thing, went quick, and handled very nicely. Definately nothing like the other lobito turtles! It might fit the current guidelines, but not sure the spirit of the class.
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The Lobito is exactly right for the class. As my infamous ADB critique of the little yellow dunger put my journalistic career on the express train to international stardom and inspired my warm and fuzzy friendship with el Presidente Ceglinski, we owe it to all Bultaco fans to allow the Lobito to compete.
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Time for Tim to hit the sack as something changed " express train to stardom/nowhere ???" Firko must be like me and tries to fix up da grammaticacal erroz sorta.
Firko did you like/hate my rant on the financial bullshit ? Real bad hair day as I just got knocked back for a job in a supermarket!! I failed because I could do mathematical equations in my head and therefore was over qualified!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-X
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here's my $50 starting point and yep! she's got a long way to go.
i have no useable 30mm forks but will probably ride an illegal front end set up till i find some. and has anyone got a 28mm carby? they'd like to pass on for this little beastie?
as far as rules and stuff goes, my personal take on it all is, just build the damn bike and get it to the track, step one.
and if it's really a problem then we'll work it from there.
no point if there's one bike in Vic, another in Act, and one and a half in NSW and 2 in Qld. it may take a little bit of time to get it all a happening.
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Glad that DT100 ended up in good hands, Vandy.
I thought seriously about it, but then decided that the transport was going to be too much of a hassle...
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god there has been enough gas baggin about these lil things are you ever going to get of your computers and ride the lil f*ckers ::)
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15 pages of discussion and not one u-tube link of one of these little rippers throwing some roost ::) :P
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I'm taking Mine to the Heaven Clarence meeting on the weekend, ;D ;D
(I'll see if I can do a Vid with sound bite ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D)
still on Methanol but prepared to set up for pump fuel , ::)(for class racing)
(or maybe just run it as is and get protested out) :o
Cheers
Noel
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Nah, c'mon Noel we want to see and hear that little old girl screaming ;D ;D. We don't mind if she's on methanol as the rules haven't kicked in yet ;). Anyway I'd be running her as she is - who is going to know ::). Apparently racing is 80% rider anyway ;) ;D
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Glad that DT100 ended up in good hands, Vandy.
I thought seriously about it, but then decided that the transport was going to be too much of a hassle...
it's a roughy Nathan but the bones are there. i watched it the first time and held back but thought the seat alone could be worth the money.
god there has been enough gas baggin about these lil things are you ever going to get of your computers and ride the lil f*ckers ::)
c'mon Tony, your obviously reading all this stuff too! an AG100 in extreme YZ yella? beautiful...
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theres been 1 or 2 ag's on ebay Vandy but the rules on this mysterious class seem to be very complicated (which is spoiling the bring yer shitter and ride feel), so I'll see if it takes off here , cash is hard to come by,,, I'd hate to be sittin with a 100cc ag bike that I can't ride anywhere.
Just throwing a bone into the ring,,, a no holes barred 100cc modified antything goes class, there'd be some wierd and wonderfull contraptions.
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What's so complicated about the rules Tony? I reckon they're brilliant in there simplicity. I think the reason its still being talked about and there's been no action is that the real world has only just heard about the class through Firkos VMX column and that with any new class you have to first find and then build them. I thought the general concensus was to introduce them at CD6 anyway. I'm building a TS90 Suzuki but its a part time project compared to my other more serious projects but it'll be done for CD6 unless some club anounces thast they were going to include the class in their race schedule.
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Trial vid. (http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=es4xfr&s=4)
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A very poignant and thought provoking film blessed with a surreal sense of expectation followed by unexpected bitter disapointment. A big chance in next years Tropfest. A tour'de'force by producer/director Noel.
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So true. Your a film genius Noel. ;D
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Noel, you're a genius!
i liked it,
and my favourite part was listening to the birds chirping at the end...
8)
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Staggeringly conceptual ,in the subliminal forefront of avant garde auroral psychosis! Nice back wheel too... :)
PS that lot of waffle above was taken from an "art" photo at a studio, The piccie was some of naked wanker shitting in an old leather boot!!!!! ::)
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I'm glad you enjoyed it,
Unfortunately the expected follow up feature film had to be canceled due to technical difficulties
and will need to be re shot at a later date
Cheers
Noel
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That's awesome Noel. Exactly what this thread needed to get the blokes motivated to get their dungers together 8).
She's got a sweet bark on her too. I think you and KB171 should get your bikes together.
I'm sure any motorcycle enthusiast would understand you emotionally deep video.
How about a 2 smoker equivalent guys ??
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Hi every body ,check out classic scramble club in Vic. they have been running this class for years
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:D your's sounds much crisper than mine Noel, my little SL has a distinct bark when first started but it soon goes away thankfully. Must be the animal in the machine eh! :P 'reckon I've got the gun rear suspension though! ;D have now fitted some trick hi performance farm type CT125 ag units and set the preload to max! ;D The CT serrated footpegs are next to be raped of the frame..was thinking maybe wide pegs but nah, the budget doesn't allow for such luxuries :D don't s'pose anyone wants a bare '91 CT125 frame and swingarm?? FREE!!!!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XrYg64ZtJKY (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XrYg64ZtJKY)
and this is how it may sound combined..imagine this muliplied by a factor of 10 with a fair smattering of screaming 2 smokers thrown in :P
http://cid-86267c09a3452a71.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Videos%20from%20here%20and%20there/blowfly%20startline.wav?lc=1033 (http://cid-86267c09a3452a71.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Videos%20from%20here%20and%20there/blowfly%20startline.wav?lc=1033)
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Ah I recognise those legs , and good ole Buster had to get in on the act also ;D
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Good grief I still got the stock muffler on mine >:( sort of a strangled little farty noise....
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Obviously Buster prefers the 2 strokes like me ;D ;D
The little SL does run like a swiss watch though Doc - one thing that sticks in my mind from the Hondas of the day. You seem to have the knack of tuning things - do you tune the white ones too ?? ;).
Elastic sided boots and no socks is a classic look. Where your thongs not roadworthy at the time or have you been the victim of the kickback flicking your thong off like me ?.
The sound track was missing the take off part - obviously the back yard is too short for "launching". ;D
Well done - still after the 2 smoker Vid to complete the set....anyone ??
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eh oldfart, I get done for vagrancy all the time cause of those pins and having no visable means of support! ;D
::) you should hear Buster with the 2 smokers YZ250..they're his absolute favorite! He goes into a shredding frenzy on whtever he gets his teeth into..I usually clean up all my belongings before starting :D
ya know I did glance at my thongs but thought for the video I'd do the right thing incase any kids were watching :P truth is my finely tuned swiss watch wasn't expected to start quite so easily and I've lots more miles to walk this week ;D so you noticed my quick tune eh :P bit like RD in that department, I dislike riding bikes that idle or surge, run on and or don't shut off cleanly when the throttle is shut hence I have the quick twist of the idle screw down to a fine art. That's my fine tuning!! ;D
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Well lads I've just flicked through this thread for the first time & I love the Idea of this class, just a thought in keeping with the fun factor how would it go if after every race on the day the guy who wins the first race has to swap bikes with the guy who finishes last for the next race the guy who finishes second swaps with the guy who came second last etc etc that would one deter people from going to overboard with the preperation of ther bikes and put a different twist on the whole day, dunno lads just a thought Cheers Lou
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Heres a good start for the international series :)
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Dirt-bikes/photos/a-187752901/p-80543965.htm
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Here's a great candidate for the class...Turn it into an Ugly Betty replica
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Rickman-Honda-100-vintage-AHRMA-MX_W0QQitemZ160298943195QQihZ006QQcategoryZ34284QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Rickman-Honda-100-vintage-AHRMA-MX_W0QQitemZ160298943195QQihZ006QQcategoryZ34284QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
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That is a beauty to Firko!! How i wish I had the resources to bid for it or make my own one :)
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serious question..will this class ever be a happening thing? all well and good to have 16 pages of yappings but how many people on this forum will actually have room on their trailers or in the their vans to transport the bikes and how many will actually wish to participate in such an event. Be okay as a novelty event providing the above criteria can be met. I don't think there's going to be the numbers to make up a grid and it's a waste of time having a 3 or so races if there isn't a sufficient number of bikes. It's not as though they can really run with any other class either. As much as I love the idea I don't feel it will be viable excepting maybe a 1 off thing at CD6 or something but again, who's going to want to drag a bucket class bike all over the country? Am I being a pesimist or is there really enough interest outside this forum? In all honesty, if given no choice and I had to leave a bike at home it wouldn't be an RM or TM which doesn't leave much else excepting the poor little SL100 :-\ in the US they have a bit more of a following as it was part of thier schoolboy days, not so here, the 100's have never been taken half seriously and I feel the situation/perspective really hasn't changed :-\ not saying the class is serious but logistics can be ;)
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Doc sad to say you are most likely 100% correct with your musings. But having said (shit I sound like a politician!! :-X) This has been 16 pages about dreaming of, tracking down, building and being what I most enjoy about pre75 VMX. No cares about if the tyre pressure sticker is on straight,you dont have $2000 brand name handle bloody bars or if your footpegs are made of the correct grade of Martian shit etc etc. Hey as a terrific bonus your personal cheap treasure can hit a track or a a bit of a farmers field in a totally laughter producing race romp !win or come stone forking motherless last. Lets dream on grin and bare it :D
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A page or so back I asked for people to put their hands up if they were fair dinkum about this or whether they were just cyber racing. I hoped we'd get a decent positive response but the result was underwhelming to say the least and it appears that our little folly was just that, a chance for the cyber racers to vent their spleen. I still think it's a great idea and sorely needed to introduce a cheap entry level class for club days and non competitive events. For it to work though we needed a club to put their hands up and announce that they'd include it as an exhibition class at their events but sadly that hasn't happened. I guess this idea will now join boot savers and anti dive front brakes on the failed experiment shelf. I'll still finish my bike as will Jonesy and we may bring them to CD6 to use as pitbikes and show what can be done with a bit of imagination and a $100 puss box. I'm a bit disapointed but it's not as if I haven't got other things to do ::) It was worth a shot.
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Firko I think this little me dunger thing has bitten like a vampire and infection is getting uncontrollable :o ..as much as I have other grander projects (subject to finances ..) I find myself really getting into the little crappers. Truthfully now your bitten too ;) and yes even you that are now reading this post 8)!!!!!
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i still like the idea and plan to get my little DT up to scratch but i'll be honest and say there's other bikes i'm working on first.
basically for me, and like Tim said, they're never gonna be a concourse resto or a serious racer but i just want one in the shed and if i ever have a begginer rider with me then it'd be the perfect bike for them to learn on or even just a fun bike for that family camping trip to tow the kids around on a sheet of plywood.
i reckon it'll take time to get it all to happen but i still reckon Tahitian Reds origional post in this thread struck a chord with a few of us.
it just looks like fun.
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Vandy,
I finally got the MX100b out on the track at the AHRMA Tulare National. It sucked a crank oil seal and I was crop-dusting all around the track, but what a load of fun!!!! You guys need to get this thing going down-under.
Look at the end of this video and you can see it looks like he is catching up to burning smudge-pot or wild fire. LOL
http://media.putfile.com/AHRMA-Tulare-Sportsman-125-MX
Here are the AHRMA rules for the MX100 class:
11.1.4 100cc MOTOCROSS: 88-100cc two-stroke and 88-120cc four-stroke production motorcycles
manufactured as up to 1974-model-year machines, and like-design. All motorcycles
in this class must have been manufactured 100cc or smaller-displacement bikes.
Eligible machines include:
Bridgestone
Bultaco Lobito or Sherpa S
DKW
Hodaka 90 or 100
Honda CT90 or CB/CL/SL/XL100
Indian
Kawasaki 90 or 100
Moto Beta
Penton
Rickman-Hodaka
Sachs
Suzuki TC/TS90 or TS/TM100
Van Tech frames with any eligible engine
Yamaha YL1E, HT1, LT2 or DT/MX100
Zundapp
a) Engine displacement can be increased to class limit, plus allowable overbore.
b) Engines must have no more than five gearbox ratios.
c) Electronic ignitions and reed-valves are allowed.
d) Maximum carburetor size is 28mm.
e) Aftermarket frames are limited to those listed, pending approval of the Rules &
Eligibility Committee.
f) Engine/frame combinations must be as manufactured; no mixing-and-matching of
engines and chassis into "specials."
g) Honda four-strokes are limited to the one-piece cylinder head. No major engine
components from 125cc engines are allowed.
Ineligible 100cc Motocross machines are:
Any machine or major component manufactured as/for a 125cc motorcycle.
Six-speed gearboxes of any type.
Rickman frames originally manufactured for Zundapp engines.
Monarch frames.
I hope this helps! :)
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if nothing else it'll give me the chance to give the little SL100 the full treatment 8) the stickers will be straight and she'll probably have her roady gear back on but I'll be giving the Martian footpegs a miss Tim ::) I believe the Martians had 'em made in china as they couldn't compete with the price!..might explain that weird stuff the chinese make things out :-\ looks like metal, feels like metal but with the properties of plasticine :D
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Doc, come on who you kidding, you and Wayne lugged a ute full plus a trail full of em ( bikes ) to CD5, plus the extras on the way back REMEMBER . And who rode his pride and joy - put put putta put around the pits ;D
Firko .... My shitta ( TS 100 ) won't be winning any show and shine awards, more so what you can do for under $500-oo
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eh Stew, I'd drag the SL around SE QLD but I highly doubt I'd drag it interstate. Taking more than 1 or 2 bikes really is begging for trouble sometimes and I've made a pact to take the essentials only from now on. Locally yes, interstate no. I hate my logic or lack of sometimes, I'd love nothing better then to take all my bikes warts and all as I only ever have a choice of 2 or 3 at most hence at present I could not drop the RM400, TM125 or TM/RM125 rides for the sake of a 1 off novelty event for the SL. You've really struck a chord with me on this Stew and I hate myself for this fact alone, I have all these bikes and rarely do they see the world outside nor do I do a bloody thing with them :( it's a friggin' waste but I just can't offload anything for the life of me ::) I'm really getting sick of piecing them together and then stuffing them away but I've little option. I'm trying to get a few up here in the house for a static display..least I'd be able to look at them but it's a habit I can't walk away from ::)
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SHIT!! 17 pages!
Intermission time:
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A while ago, every ad of mine in the pocket trader or paper brought a dozen hopefuls calling to offer their SL100/125s for pocket change. Now we may have a class for them, I can't find one! There were hundreds sold in North Qld, where the hell are they? All I can find are 2 Bridgestones, a 90 and a 100, with pressed steel(?) frames which bent when you sat on them. The 100 when modified was a quick little beast though in a straight line.
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Here's one for the husky lovers
http://www.bikepics.com/pictures/388593/
http://www.bikepics.com/pictures/388594/
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My god that thing is a Pig!!
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http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Honda-MB-100_W0QQitemZ110321126671QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Motorcycles?hash=item110321126671&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HONDA-ST70-Z50-MUNKY-DAX-MINI-TRAIL_W0QQitemZ120341234827QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Motorcycles?hash=item120341234827&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318
are these allowed ???
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Pretty sure the MB100 is post 75, and the other is a minibike, so won't be eligible.
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thanks,,oh well keep shopping,,,rare now these 100cc ;D
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Hello
Yes, here in victoria, the Classic scramble club has a class for 100 2 strokes they race againest the 125 4 strokes and we call it the bucket class. great fun
cheers
albrid-3
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http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Suzuki-TS-100-Plated-8-80-VMX-was-running-g-box-ok_W0QQitemZ200304800960QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories?hash=item200304800960&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318
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Just bought my yammie 100 1972 model dt, she will be raced this year in the bucket class, it is a great fun low budget racing, at the classic scramble club race meetings.
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I've finally bought a DT100. Still gotta go and pick it up, but it is paid for at least.
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Its nice just to have little things in life :)
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Went and got the DT100 from Yumastepside's place.
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f128/annaandnathan/Bikestuff/May8-09Nathan005.jpg)
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f128/annaandnathan/Bikestuff/May8-09Nathan006.jpg)
Its actually a lot better than the photos would have you believe, although the right-half-black, left-half-purple frame is quite hard on the eyes...
The dubious flame paint job is actually quite well done, so I'm leaving it there for a laugh. :D
The nice fork tubes will go onto my MX125, while the DT will get a set of 34mm forks (I know these are outside Firko's suggested rules, but WTF - at the moment there's no official class so I will use what I've got).
Everything else will come out of my parts pile - just the 'best of the left over' parts that I drag out of my shed...
It might yet make it to CD6, depending on which trailer we use. Assuming the bike works OK, anyone who's interested in having a ride on it, just needs to ask.
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Love the flame job Nather..seriously!! 8) if the rest of the bike was black/alloy as in the frame, guards and covers as per normality I reckon it'd look really good ;)
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Not a bad effort at all with the flames Nath. yeah keep it and give it a polish .
Im shaking my head and have this vision of 30 guys with sore wrists from trying to crank the throttle that little bit more to get some poke out of all these teenage pit bikes.
Does sound like a bit of fun though.
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At the time that I owned my DT100 I swore I would never ride one again >:(. Would be interesting to see what one that goes properly rides like :)
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i think "flames" should be compulsory!
sweet as..... :D
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Do You Moto 100? in the US they do :P
http://martytripesvintage.com/MTs100WorksRevenge.html (http://martytripesvintage.com/MTs100WorksRevenge.html)
I especially love this comment..
we all had Factory bikes in that era, we just didn't know it
I actually knew it all along! ;D
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1. Tear down ( Removal of Head to measure bore and stroke, $30.00 dollars, money to go to Bar-B-Q
and Beer fund for last race of year. If Tear is legal, Tear down rider gets $ 20:00.
The $10.00 dollars goes to Beer and Bar B Q fund.
2. Tech Referee Steward, is Jim Pileggi .
3. If caught cheating on 100cc rule, Cheater must buy everyone on race gate in class breakfast.
Second offence, Cheater must buy Steak dinner for everyone on race gate in class.
Win!
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Has this fizzled out or have I missed something, all the posts and talk but yet to actually hear of any races taking place. Still reckon its a brilliant idea, and if they ever hit the tracks would provide plenty of spectator entertainment. Guess it makes a good topic for bench racing sessions.
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Has this fizzled out or have I missed something, all the posts and talk but yet to actually hear of any races taking place. Still reckon its a brilliant idea, and if they ever hit the tracks would provide plenty of spectator entertainment. Guess it makes a good topic for bench racing sessions.
or a feature race for CD7
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Has this fizzled out or have I missed something,
It does appear to have fizzed out. Nobody wanted to actually take the punt and put a class into an already overloaded race program. I agree it's a good idea, even if I did have something to do with it. I wonder if many actually built bikes? I've almost finished one and will put a bit of effort into it if the idea sparks up again but until pre 78 and the later classes are split to run at seperate meetings, I doubt if it'll ever happen. It was a lot of fun for the cyber racers amongst us to theorise their mega 100 racer.
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Firko, I thought it was going to be on for CD6 ( during lunch break ) But it ran out of steam. Never mind little ole Ts 100 is sitting in the shed waiting for it's number to come up :)
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I took my CL 90 out to Nepean for the last Penrith dirt track meeting,
and ran it in Pre 70 and Classic 125.
unfortunately blew the gear box up during the second round.
to much horse power flat shifting into second and stripped some teeth from the cogs,
only the 4th gear box to go this way ,I've got 2 more spares then i'm in trouble .
Cheers
Noel
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since the talk of the 100 blowfly class I've accumulated an SL100, a TS100 and a G5 Kawa 100 :-\ all I need is a yam and I can have a Blowfly shootout! ;D the interest generated could only be compared to reading the dunny wall :D
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Doc,I've got a DT100 here to make your collection complete.Needs a fair bit of spit and polish but, it'd scrub up fine.
Let it go for a few Turkeys.
Firko;I've been reading this thread with interest.(after downing a few Elijah Craigs,um,thats Bourbon, and getting the gumption up,to put forth my two cents,wrong as it may be!).
Mate, being the owner of 2 DT100s,and an a LT2 which are all bog standard and never having any spent dollars on them to make them race prepped,I understand exactly where you are coming from.
My bikes rarely ever see serious any run time.
Owning these bikes and never riding them hard is always a sore point to me.Do I sell them?Do I hold onto them?
That aside.
I think the spirit of fair game will abide,if;from the get go,we get the rules straight.As you've already outlined.Starting with absolutely no room for exceptions or arguments,and late add on's to suit!
Don't even fffing mention folding or non-folding footpegs.
I personally don't want to race someone who sneakily hots or gives his bike superior (meaning: later year,or factory only add ons) options that weren't available to the general buying public.So to just claim the trophy.
All I'd like is for the spirit of our sport to keep surviving,and for people to be honest.So long as what they bring to race is in accordance to what the rules allow.It will hopefully,keep everyone honest,keep alive the camaderie,and for all to have a good time.
If this happens,wether we finish first or last.
To compete wether it be a 100cc or 501cc.
This,is what our sport is about.
Cheers,Mark.
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jeez Mark you must like those dang turkeys as there's 1 here already with your tag on it ;) might need to see if I can't find it a few new friends 8)
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I know.It must be hard watching moss grow on the bottle. :'(
Sorry Doc,but of late I haven't been able to get up that way.I have a job in Milton, Monday.Then back to Logan for a few days.
Been trying to free up a weekend.I'll ring you before I aim to swing by.
Cheers,Mark.
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no no, it's no problem Husk and trust me when I say it's perfectly safe here for any duration ;) but if it were a bottle of milk it's future would be in serious doubt! :D maybe collect at the Nats if not before...
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There should be a class at the Australian Titles, at club level the classic scramble club run bucket class which is 100cc 2 strokes and 125 4 strokes, but the 4 stroke fellow cheat by making their 4 strokes bigger.
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Ironically the world 100cc championship was run last weekend in the US. Scott McKenzie won the whole thing ( evo class against the RMs/YZ's) on a modified TM100 while his mate won the pre 1975 class also on a TM100. Here's a little footage ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMarmu6OfqI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMarmu6OfqI)
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thats some of the best footage i've seen!
thanks for that Doc.
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very cool footage Doc.
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Doc, he gave that clutch hell ..... watch the left finger.
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Hi, I was wondering if the SL 100 came out in 1969? does anyone know, and did the 70 to 74 models differ much from the 69 model apart from the one piece head. thanks
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SFA differences and late 69 till 74 ;) actually all the one piece head models are basically identical bar graphics.
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hey Tim, in saying a release date of late '69 for the SL100k0 still wouldn't make the bike eligible for pre'70 would it..or would it ??? Curious as always ;)
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Oldfart, I wasn't really watching his finger too much but moreso listening to his holding of gears and the little over revving that came with it. What amazed me was the way the little TM125 took the holeshot and cleared off, had the straight been longer the gap would have been bigger as it was walking away from the evo RM's and YZ's no questions asked ;D
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Released in 69 as a 'designated 1970' model OK ;)
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Ironically the world 100cc championship was run last weekend in the US. Scott McKenzie won the whole thing ( evo class against the RMs/YZ's) on a modified TM100 while his mate won the pre 1975 class also on a TM100. Here's a little footage ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMarmu6OfqI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMarmu6OfqI)
That was cool Doc....i like it at about 2:17 he hit the ground and goes....ooh!...i think he used all the travel on that bike.
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uh huh..thanks Tim..that's what I'd fugured ;)
yeah Mario, I noticed that 1st time also, unfortunately most camera's doesn't really show the true extent of how rough and steep tracks are/can be or how big the jumps or ruts are but yup, that was a bloody hard landing from the sound of it :D even more remarkable for the winning TM100 as it cleaned up with half the suspension travel of the later models. The thing I love about my TM is the way it corners, the pre'75's are miles ahead of any evo or pre'78 in that regard ;D
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Hey tim 754 you seem to know a bit about these little honda's , I was going to do up a sl100 for pre 70 but it sounds like it wouldn't be allowed or is it? thanks
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No the designation as a 1970 model tramples the little buggers for pre70 even if your id plate says manufactured in 69 >:(. Do your SL up for pre75 (suggest the SL125) and have a ball of fun.
My family used to ride a Hodaka Ace100 MX in pre70, it was proven to be a very rare 1969 model that was not officially called the Super Rat even though that was on the air filter cover. Its engine /frame number was 000004.
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Do You Moto 100 at CD7 ? Anyone taken theirs
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I'd love to take my little Honco 90 but as I've only got a 3 bike trailer something more serious would have to stay home. It's a shame but a reality shared by many.
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your nasty Alison.
my little DT100 was all set but work on my house has put a heap of my bike work on the shelf.
hopefully next year for me.
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I have been taking to members of our club about having a class as outlined by Firko, using trail bikes pre 75 100cc 2 stroke and 125 4 stroke limited.
They would not be Motocross bikes and after the first race a handicap system would start the last place riders first and other places reversed to stop modification and bring some fun into our sport. I will be bringing my Honda 71 SL 100 to CD7 and see how it goes around the pre 75 track. It would be great if other bikes were there for some fun also.
Glenn
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Got a "Moto100" SL125 in stripped track trim sitting here in northern Vic .Maybe someone going to CD7 wants another ride? Tim754 No not for sale, just a lend ;)
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Just wondering how it all worked out? I didn't want to read all 20 pages, so did anyone get a 100cc class started? :)
The class has never really taken off like I thought it would, here in the U.S. Marty Tripes has a 100 class running, in Southern California, that is pretty successful, but I think 1979-1983 bikes rule there. Here is a pic of my little screaming MX100 the last time I raced her.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g438/Tahtitian_Red/YZ100b.jpg)
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G'day T-Red,
lots of talk on this thread, but nothing ever eventuated and i doubt it ever will.
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it made 20 pages.
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Oh yea of little faith, I am riding my SL100 in the pre 75 125 class and there is another XL125 racing here in Brissy.
Vandy has a DT100 and there are more bikes coming out of the wood work.
Next year I will be racing 3 x 4 strokes at the club races if all works out a SL 100, XL185 and a TX510 Husky.
And any modified 4 stroke in the pre 75 trailies will be handicaped after the first race.
My bike owes me 300.00 so far.