Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST

[VMX247]

[clutchslip]

Personally, I wouldn't get hung up on the Starmaker, though the gearbox is all needle-roller, a distinct advantage compared to a stock villiers box, although maybe less so today when the strip/rebuild routine is likely to be more frequent than for the average clubman in the 60s. Don't forget the early bikes also used the alpha bottom end with Greeves alloy barrel on top - this is an alternative pre-65 setup; finding a Marcelle or Parkinson barrel would bling up this setup. Or go with a Greeves challenger 250 engine and albion box, far easier to find than a good starmaker. Or alternatively, and finally, if you are looking for pre-70, why not go with the VERY easy to find Greeves Griffon motor and the unburstable Greeves box that went with it....Having said all of that, I might be tempted by a squarie Maico...

[stormer 254]

IF You want the fastest 250  pre 65 bike use a  Starmaker Stormer based engine ,with a decent late 70s or very early 80s expansion chamber and a bit of judicious tuning, you will leave any other 250 behind, positively eats Challengers and Griffins. Plus every bit you want the engine is available from AJS in England plus a n enormous amount of tuning info from Nick and Fluff.

[cyclegod]

http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/largephoto.cgi?C=BSrHS4AXuUbT8tmh

[VMX247]

http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/largephoto.cgi?C=BSrHS4AXuUbT8tmh

Thanks CG,
looks like stringofshowponies is still trying for the high end of the market-$599 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GREEVES-ENGINE-MOTOR-ASSY-VINTAGE-GREEVES_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ171108QQitemZ160514847714

http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=16370.msg163851

and your post on the vintagemx site we have $395 
which shows they are still available and not too much of a big rush for us.
cheers Alison

[firko]

Sprite founder Frank Hipkin is a lurker on this forum and has been following this thread with great interest.
Whenever Frank reads something that he has an opinion on he emails me to let me know his thoughts. His input to my Sprite /American Eagle/Alron history project has been invaluable. Here's his take on the Starmaker engine.

We at Sprite motorcycles used to fit the star maker Mark 1 engine, they were  robust apart from the primary chain, the engine didn't live up to its publicity put out by Villiers in Wolverhampton UK. Firstly they used to run backwards on slow tick over, secondly it really wasn't quick enough. At that time we were selling quite a few motorcycles trials and scrambles machines, we had got a good name in the off-road scene and we were approached by Villiers. Peter Inchley, who at the time was winning the British ACU 250 cc National championship, he was recognised in the road racing circles as a top tuner. It was agreed with Villiers and myself, that Peter and a spanner man Geoff Burgess would bring engines to Sprite Motorcycles factory, we firstly began by testing it at my private track, then when we got it going something like, we took it to Hawkstone Park daily until I was satisfied with the power, it finished up that I could go round Hawkstone Park with the power that I thought it should be, for top class racing.

Now that was done with the road racing barrel/head with the narrow fins and with the bad name of the star maker Mark 1 engine. I told them with the help of Peter and Jeff, that if they want to sell star makers engines they must use those barrels/heads carburettors expansion chambers.   
Then I was approached by Peter to attend a board meeting with the Villiers, Pete told me they were interested in possibly a joint or takeover  Sprite, I went to the meeting in the board room with I think Ron Flowers chairman and at least seven/eight directors, in the meeting there was also Bernard Hooper, the designer of the star maker engines. I listened to what they got to say, wasn't very interested at all,
after the meeting I had quite a long talk with Bernard Hooper, about two stroke engines.
That was the time of putting maico/Husky engines etc into the sprites. So i had no interest there way.

The second picture is when we were riding in Ireland at there  national meeting. The picture shows two riders at the top one is Terry Challoner leading, with the caption on the top with my name Frank Hipkin riding a
Greeves. Terry was on a 250 cc: Sprite with a star maker Mark 2 engine in. That was a prototype engine before Villiers went in to production and making a own off road motorcycles. Terry won the main race, I finished second on a Greeves motorcycle. The head lines in the paper said Vic Allan came first, we had lapped him. We took the money.

The funny thing about it was when we arrived in Belfast my dealer Albert Clark wanted to know why I didn't bring a Sprite to ride myself, I told him I was pretty well at the end of my racing and that I was looking after my works riders. In those days in Ireland you only raced on Saturdays so as soon as we got off the boat in the morning we went and had a point or two of Guiness. Then all Albert Clark pointed out to me that it was their biggest meeting, and in Belfast on the lampposts all our names were on posters and I was entered, he finally convinced me to ride, we went to his shop and all he had got three second hand Greeves, so I used one of them. The conditions in the main event was atrocious, and in those conditions I excelled in, it was a long race I was leading it up to the last lap Terry was second, I waited for him to allow him to win.I was second.

I think Bert Greeves and Mr Cobb wondered what on earth that they gaffer of Sprite motorcycles was doing on a Greeves.
 
Ok Mark i have been sending you lot of stuff.Now if it is of no use to you please let me know.??
 
Regards
Frank.

[stormer 254]

I think that reinforces my point that a judicially tuned Starmaker motor is the way to go, also a very good spares  source of AJS of Andover. 

[firko]

[VMX247]

What years are these--still both pre65  ?
cheers us two

[stormer 254]

The first engine is a narrow fin Starmaker and you would be allowed to use that engine in pre65 in the UK, you might like to fit an air filter though The second engine/ bike is an AJS Stormer, not eligible for pre 65, runs in the pre74s. Engine parts mostly interchangeable so  can help tuning/cheating

[VMX247]

Is the Villiers Starmaker wide fin Engine pre65 ??
and do you know what Villiers Starmaker engine numbers are for the pre65 ??
Dave T or anyone ..
cheers

[VMX247]

Brian Nadin on a Sprite Villiers in 1964.

Proof enough that Starmakers where/are pre65. 
cheers A

[firko]

Proof enough that Starmakers where/are pre65

I don't think anyone ever said they weren't Alison. Craig Elliot among others has raced his Starmaker powered Cotton in pre 65 in the past. It's never been in doubt.

[VMX247]

Proof enough that Starmakers where/are pre65

I don't think anyone ever said they weren't Alison. Craig Elliot among others has raced his Starmaker powered Cotton in pre 65 in the past. It's never been in doubt.

True,very true- It's just for self reasurance and for all those new to VMX and the history of British bikes. 
cheers A

[stormer 254]

Greeves ME 250 Starmaker 1963, as you might guess I am rather partial to the Starmaker engine