OzVMX Forum

Marque Remarks => British (BSA, Greeves, Triumph etc) => Topic started by: VMX247 on June 19, 2009, 04:38:17 PM

Title: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on June 19, 2009, 04:38:17 PM
Does anyone know the frame and engine specifications on these bikes.  ???
There doesn't seem to much on them. What we did find out was :

 :) Sprite ran from 1964-1974 (UK).
 :) Sprite also made a frame to house a unit construction Triumph motor.
 :) Some Sprites came with the Villiers Starmaker motor as well same as Cotton.
 :) You can also put an American Eagle clone Sprite Husky motor in them.  ;D
 :) any photos or other info would be most appreciated  8)

oh and we have this article written by Firko
http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/5990474_72Tfa#374216768_P4BN8

cheers S&A WA
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: paul on June 19, 2009, 04:42:51 PM
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/sprite-motocross-twinshock-pre-65-villiers_W0QQitemZ280357493671QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Motorcycle_Parts?hash=item41469bdba7&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1683%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
 :P
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on June 19, 2009, 04:49:48 PM
Thanks Paul have been watching that one too--not too many around.
Plenty of old ripper Villier lawn mowers though  ;D
cheers
found this one  :-*


(http://[url=http://[IMG]http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/spritetwo.jpg)](http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/spritetwo.jpg)[/url][/img]
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on June 23, 2009, 05:25:33 PM
Another question  ::)  ;D
Is the below chrome number plate apron original or after market and can I get one from the UK or anywhere.? ?
thanks


(http://[url=http://[IMG]http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/eagle_sprite.jpg)](http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/eagle_sprite.jpg)[/url][/img]
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: Bamford#69 on June 23, 2009, 05:35:12 PM
Hi
They also came with a "round case" Husky lookalike motor in little and large ,
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: firko on June 23, 2009, 06:55:00 PM
The Sprite "Husky" engine only came in 405cc.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: JC on June 24, 2009, 10:18:27 AM
Which from memory was actually 399cc but called a 405.

I believe they came w 250 Husky-type motor for a while too, until they 'saw the light' & put the 238 Kaw motor in the American Eagle. That's the model I'd like.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: firko on June 24, 2009, 11:49:37 AM
Quote
Is the below chrome number plate apron original or after market and can I get one from the UK or anywhere.? ?
thanks
Alison those alloy side panels are actually cast alloy and are the 'Holy Grail' for Sprite fans. They were standard on some models but are popular with special builders. A good proportion of American Eagles/Sprites that come up for sale are missing these panels. They're practically unobtainable and when they do come up you'd better prepare for a bidding war ;D.
Quote
You can also put an American Eagle motor in them.
There's no such thing as an "American Eagle" engine Alison. They're actually Sprite Husky clones with American Eagle cast into the clutch and ignition covers.

John..I thought the Husky style 250 engine was the genuine article. In all of my research I haven't seen any reference to a Hipkin built 250 Sprite "Husky" engine.
The Sprite frame has housed a number of engines over the years including 250 OSSA Pioneer and Phantom (Alron), Villiers Starmaker, Husqvarna, Maico, Kawasaki 238 and more. In 500 guise they used Sprite 405, Maico 360, Husqvarna 360, Triumph 500 Villiers Starmaker and I'm sure more . The frame also housed 125 Sachs, Zundapp, Maico and Minarelli engines throughout its life cycle. Sprites are/were the best kept secret in VMX. Eligible for pre 65, they're a budget intro into the Cheney/Metisse aftermarket frame market (see Budget Bikes thread). VMX editor Ken Smith is restoring a Kawasaki 250 powered American Eagle, Alan Jones is building both 405 American Eagle and Alron and I'm collecting parts to eventually build an oval Maico powered Sprite pre 65er. Brad Lackey even owns one. Forget what the 'naysayers' will tell you...the Sprite/American Eagle/BVM/Alron are good things (with the exception of the 405 Sprite engine which has some transmission shortcomings).
Below is a rare Zundapp 125 powered Sprite. Pretty little thing ain't she?
                                   (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/Macs%20Sprite.jpg)
Below: The 1966 press announcement of the new Starmaker 250 and Maico open class Sprites.
                                       
                                    (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/sprite%2068.jpg)
Below: 'Bad' Brad Lackey with his '68 405 American Eagle.
                             (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/brad%20Am%20Eagle.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: firko on June 24, 2009, 07:01:32 PM
My apologies to my esteemed coleagues Jikov and JC, it appears that you were right and I was wrong!  Sprite guru Jim McWhirter and Jonsey have both pointed out that the 250 Husky based Sprite engine is listed but the big question mark is that nobody seems to have seen one or even seen a picture of one. According to official Sprite paperwork Frank Hipkin did indeed announce a 250 Husky based engine but perhaps the planned release was stalled after the 405 tanked. Does anybody have a picture of one?
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: Snowy 76 on June 24, 2009, 07:16:55 PM
John Boag was telling me he had a 250 Sprite engine?
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: firko on June 24, 2009, 07:20:45 PM
I was assuming Boagys was a Villiers Mark but I was unaware of the Husky Sprite 250 so Boagy may indeed have one.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on June 24, 2009, 11:21:02 PM
Fax & Tel: (0)1246 855 557. Bultaco UK. Bultaco & trials specialists. 213 Pooley Green Road ... 07803 128000. www.faberframes.com.

or this one from VMX Mag

Faber Frames Ltd
Tara, St. Breward,
Bodmin, Cornwall PL30 4NX, England
Tel +44 (0) 1208 850 677
Mobile 07803 128000

Oh yer GMC would probably make one too  ;)   ;D

Apparently according to http://www.eurospares.com/graphics website you can still get the Sprite Kits.I haven't looked yet ..This website also has some amazing info/pics on it-eg-XL350 Cheney & Hagons to name a few.

Amazing when you start hunting, what you can find    :-\   :o 
Thanks all for the above info.  8)

(http://[url=http://[IMG]http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/spritekit.jpg)](http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/spritekit.jpg)[/url][/img]





Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: JC on June 25, 2009, 08:52:09 AM
Mark,

I thoroughly agree that these Sprite-framed bikes are grossly underestimated (w the exception of the 405 engine as you rightly point out). I've long been interested in them cos of the Kaw 238 connection & my love of the lime-green machines. Brad Lackey raced one of them (w 238 engine) & I have a pic of him on one somewhere. It may have been that bike/connection that raised Kawasaki's early interest in him.

A friend of mine bought a 125 rolling chassis American Eagle to put a 238 rotary valve F21M engine into. (Same frame) The F21M is only 4sp (& very rare), & except for my preference for lime-green, I reckon they'd be better w a 5sp DT1/RT1 engine. Just about be the ducks guts for pre-70, & relatively cheap.

I think I have an ad that shows a pic of the 250 Husky-type engined bike in an old Dirt Bike. I'll have to check.

Boagy is up here in FNQ at present & is dropping in here on his way back to the Nats, so I'll ask him about his Sprite, but I also suspect its a Villers engined one.

Interestingly, the Alron came w 2 diff frames, one w the swingarm pivot in front of the frame tubes & one behind. Can you fill us in on that Mark?
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: firko on June 25, 2009, 10:55:22 AM
John, I wasn't aware that Alron used the early frame. Every Alron I've seen has the later "fastback" frame. Do you have a photo of an Alron using the early frame? I'd love to add it to the file.

There are two distinct Sprite frames that are distinguished by the placement of the swingarm pivot being either fore or aft of the frame tube and by the twin or single top frame rail design.
Below: The early Sprite/American Eagle frame that was introduced in 1964.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/aeagle.jpg)
Below: The later post 197? frame , called the 'fastback' frame that came with the Alron, BVM, late American Eagle and late Sprite.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/sprite%20f.jpg)

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/alronal.jpg)
The Alron restored by Dean Rowe that sold at CD4 for 13k. Note 'Fastback' frame.

Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: firko on June 25, 2009, 10:57:16 AM
After reading the above it's dawned on me just how "Anorak" I've become. I think I should start to get out a bit more.  ::) ;D
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: mx250 on June 25, 2009, 11:18:31 AM
After reading the above it's dawned on me just how "Anorak" I've become. I think I should start to get out a bit more.  ::) ;D
True, but you are such a lovable, interesting and knowledgeable Anorak ;D. Please don't change Firko 8). Who would have thought that such a mundane enquiry about a Sprite would turn into such an interesting thread (with interesting pixies and all) ;) ;D.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: firko on June 25, 2009, 11:41:36 AM
Shucks Graeme :-[......I find this stuff interesting and it's relieving to know that others share the interest. I reckon it's the little things that often slip through to the keeper that make out hobby so cool. Take the Flink on Docs "Something I've never heard of " thread. I find those obscure little chapters in our sport just so intriguing. Just because a bike didn't win a shitload of titles or sell by the millions doesn't make any less interesting in my opinion. The Sprite saga is another of those yarns that I reckon deserve a bit of attention. I enjoy doing it and I'm glad you and others enjoy reading them......Thanks mate.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: JC on June 25, 2009, 12:14:51 PM
Mark,

If yr 'anorak' I must be too! Does that mean we need help?!

In the articles & pics I have, the 400 Alron is always pictured in the "fastback" frame like you posted above, but the Ossa-engined 250 appears in 2 diff frames. 1 appears to be the same as the 400 frame & the motor doesn't sit quite right in that frame. It appears too long & is 'cocked' upwards at the front to fit in the engine bay.

The other is a diff design again & the Ossa motor fits in comfortably. Engine bay must be longer. It has the swingarm pivot in front of the down tubes but is quite diff to the early Sprite frame you posted above.

If you look at Ray's article in VMX #7, top of p42, the pics of the 250 show the diff frames tho the pics are small so you have to look carefully. I have a copy of a 2 Wheels article (mar 75) which has larger pics & its much more obvious. I could scan & post them but I seem to have used up my photo quota here.

Some of the articles I have indicate that the first (10-20?) Alrons were straight Sprites re-badged & appear to have all been the 400. Ron Lyons apparently wasn't entirely happy w those rebadged Sprites. The later (25-30?) "real Alrons" do seem to have had an in-house-built frame made on jigs in Jandacott, Perth. I think all those "real Alrons" used the 250 Ossa motor; some were Pioneer/SDR while others were Stilleto. (Its often said in the press that they were Phantom engines but they hadn't yet been built in 72-73 & Ron Lyons himself said they used SDR & Stiletto engines.)


Edit: Some of the last paragraph was found to be untrue - see later posts


Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: mx250 on June 25, 2009, 12:15:02 PM
At the risk of turn the thread into a 'love in' ::), I couldn't agree more :). I reckon the ingenuity of the Flink and similar deserve preserve as much as any of the works bikes.  
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: firko on June 25, 2009, 12:32:07 PM
Quote
Some of the articles I have indicate that the first (10-20?) Alrons were straight Sprites re-badged & appear to have all been the 400. Ron Lyons apparently wasn't entirely happy w those rebadged Sprites. The later (25-30?) "real Alrons" do seem to have had an in-house-built frame made on jigs in Jandacott, Perth.
John you are in deed a fellow anorak and now you've really opened up the subject! I was aware that Alan and Ron Lyon were planning to jig up for their own frame but until now didn't think that they ever eventuated. Talking to Brian Clarkson, who was the NSW distributor and their only Aussie "works rider", he aluded that all of the Alrons were rebadged Sprites and didn't mention any Aussie built OSSA powered bikes. He did mention that the OSSA Phantom powered Alron was a good thing that handled better (in his words it was "less nervous") than a real Phantom and weighed about the same.

To quote Alice in Wonderland: the Sprite plot seems to get "curiouser and curiouser".
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on June 25, 2009, 05:25:02 PM
Just another Hybrid

Ah ,but a nice classic one  8)
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: mx250 on June 25, 2009, 05:29:50 PM
Just another Hybrid

Ah ,but a nice classic one  8)
cheers
And worth a cool $13grand two years ago.....

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/alronal.jpg)
The Alron restored by Dean Rowe that sold at CD4 for 13k. Note 'Fastback' frame.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on June 25, 2009, 10:25:37 PM
Thanks MX250- I knew I had taste in Classic Dirt Bikes and you know another thing when I pick that Sprite (page 1) up in a few weeks, I'll be the only person in the VMXWA with one  :D  ;D  :o  ;)
cheers Alison
Oh and I don't care if I'm at the back of the pack playing cat and mouse with the Cotton   ;)   ;D
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: firko on June 25, 2009, 10:57:03 PM
So you bought the Sprite Alison? It looked pretty nice and will be a nice bit of fun in pre 65/250. The Sprite thing is catching. Buy 'em up before they get discovered by the Yanks!
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on June 25, 2009, 11:03:49 PM
Yep-pick her up on the 12th-just got to get those sort after number plates rolled up and made somewhere-got a fellow vmxer in the know.  8)


Do you think its a trials front end as the mudguard is lower than the mx version  ??? or did the scramblers come out with a mudguard like that ?
(http://[url=http://[IMG]http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/spritetwo.jpg)](http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/spritetwo.jpg)[/url][/img]
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on June 26, 2009, 09:53:39 PM
Its like stumbling upon Alladins Villiers cave this lot  :o   ;D
Part 6 - The Sixties

Engines were still being developed in the sixties, the A series was the greatest beneficiary in this period.  The 32A was developed as a trials engine, the 33A became the 34A, still a scrambles unit and the 35A was supplied to Bond for use in their three wheelers.  The 36A was very similar to the 33A and 34A engines.  A wide range of 4 speed gearbox variations were available and, a new departure, Villiers offered the 33A, 34A and 36A with Amal carburettors.  An Amal 389/39 was fitted to them.  Villiers S25/5 carburettors were used on the 32A and 35A engines.  Compression ratios were 7.4:l on the 35A, 7.9:1 on the 32A and 12:1 on the 34A and 36A engines.

The final development of these engines was announced in 1965 when the 37A came on the scene.  This had many of the features of the 32A but used a lightweight crankshaft, gearbox shell and end cover and was fitted with a special wide ratio gear cluster.  As these A engines were similar they could be changed for events as required by the rider and they were well used in events in many parts of the world.  I will comment upon results later.

The 3L, already mentioned in Part 5 was introduced in 1960 and the 4T in 1963.  This was very similar to the 2T, giving 249cc capacity but was given a higher compression ratio of 8.75:1 as against the 8.2:1 of the earlier units.  Three variations were offered, the 4T for use in motor cycles and the 4T/SK and 4T/SKR for use in scooters and three wheelers.  The 4T had an 18 tooth final sprocket and the others a 17 tooth sprocket.  All used the Villiers S25 carburettor.  They were recorded as giving over 17 brake horse power at 6,000rpm.  The 4T used a Villiers flywheel magneto and the others had a Syba Dynastart fitted.

The engine I have left to be the last I detail is one that made some enthusiasts think that Villiers had taken on a new lease of life.  They named it Star Maker (later changed to Starmaker).  It was designed by Bernard Hooper and was originally intended to be for use in scrambles but was soon being used as a road racing engine.  Various firms and individuals were adding their own tuning and Villiers, as always, took note of this and soon there were three variations available, a road racer and a trials unit in addition to the scrambles engine.  The engine prefix indicates the variations offered on the engine and includes 757D for the standard scrambles engine, 490E for a road racing version, 834E a road racing engine with closer finning on the barrel and head, 871E a trials engine, 972E a standard road use engine fitted with 12 volt rectified lighting, 131F a trials engine with 6 volt direct lighting.  The Starmaker engine had a bore and stroke of 68mm×68mm giving a capacity of 247cc.  The compression ratio was varied, the road racer having 13:1, the scrambler 12:1 and the trials engine 8:1.  Different gear ratios were used on each, road racer 2.21:1, 1.45:1, 1.2:1 and 1:1, scrambler 2.52:1, 1.66:1, 1.255:1 and 1:1, trials 3.5:1; 2.08:1; 1.375:1; and 1:1, and different carburettors and inlets were used: racer Amal 3 GP2 with a 1.5 inch choke, scrambler Amal 389 monoblock with a 1.375 inch choke, trials Villiers type S25 with a 1 inch choke.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on June 26, 2009, 09:58:40 PM
Bill Ivy on a Cotton Starmaker rode at many events in all parts of Great Britain and often showed all other machines the way home.  And similar success was gained by other riders in all manner of events but the occasion when many motorcyclists were encouraged to believe that the time would not be too far distant when once again British machines and riders would be at the top of the world road racing tree once again was when in 1966 Villiers entered a machine which had a Starmaker engine in a Bultaco frame and was ridden by Peter Inchley in the 250cc Lightweight Class in the IOM TT.  It came in third, the best British result in this class for many years.  Unfortunately it was not to be, but that part of my story follows later.

The 60s saw the end of Villiers as an independent supplier of motor cycle engines.  It possibly started with the retirement of Prank Farrar from the post of Chairman of the Company in 1957.  He was succeeded by his son, Leslie and when he retired in 1965, Manganese Bronze, who had been buying shares and then owned 20% of them made an offer for the rest.  When this was accepted they combined Villiers with the Norton AMC company they owned and soon afterwards formed a new combine: Norton Villiers Triumph.  NVT, as it was known, announced that they would supply no more Villiers engines to other motor cycle builders but would be fitting them into their AJS bikes.  They produced some 250cc machines but it was left to Fluff Brown, who continued to build them after NVT closed down to do further work on the Starmaker and enlarged the engine producing models with 350 and 358cc engines to produce a scrambler which at first gave a good account of itself.
The results gained by machines powered by Villiers engines during the 60s were too numerous to list in detail.  In many trials there were well over 50% of entrants riding them.  In the results these figures were otten exceeded because so many of the top riders were on works machines from firms using them.
To just mention a few, and can I apologise to any reader who does not find his or her own achievements listed?  As an example, in February 1964 in 90 trials results listed there were 1,215 awards made.  Of these Villiers engined machines gained 707 - some 60%.
cheers............. http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pattle/nacc/arc0596.htm
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: firko on June 26, 2009, 10:47:08 PM
Here's some info on the seldom seen Sprite 250. Thanks to Alan Jones.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/Alron%20250.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on June 26, 2009, 11:06:19 PM
(http://[url=http://[IMG]http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/Sprite1.jpg)](http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/Sprite1.jpg)[/url][/img]

cheers Firko here's a couple back at ya  ;D
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on June 26, 2009, 11:10:21 PM
(http://[url=http://[img width=565 height=800]http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/sprite2.jpg)](http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/sprite2.jpg)[/url][/img]
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on June 26, 2009, 11:14:25 PM
(http://[url=http://[img width=565 height=800]http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/sprite3.jpg)](http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/sprite3.jpg)[/url][/img]


A far cry from today's work shops and that's what I like about it all - they improvised and where happy with what they had.
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: firko on June 26, 2009, 11:21:50 PM
JC sent this info on the OSSA powered Alrons.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/Alron%20250s%20%28TW%20Mar%2075%29.bmp.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/Alron%20250%20MX%20ossa.bmp.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on June 26, 2009, 11:35:12 PM
Gee whiz Firko--- slow down ya lapping me  :D..
Its hard work trying to keep up with you on this  ;D
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: firko on June 26, 2009, 11:39:00 PM
The way this is turning out Alison, any more and we'll have compiled the definitive history of Sprite/American Eagle/Alron ;D.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: JC on June 27, 2009, 08:32:46 AM
M,

Did you also get the pic of the 250 & 405 A/Eagle w husky-type engines from the DirtBike mag ad? (I'd post it here myself but I have to work out how to do so now we can't do it via attachments.)

As far as I can tell, the early Sprite/American Eagle big-bores were actually 351cc using same 78.75 x 72 mm bore & stroke of early Husky 360 (4sp) engine. Later 400/405 engines, using that distinctive scolloped barrell were 399cc using 84x72, rather than the 81.5x76 (395cc) of the 400 Husky 4sp engine.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: firko on June 27, 2009, 10:45:25 AM
Yeah I did John but ran out of time last night. Ruggedly handsome elite sportsmen like myself need our beauty sleep and it got too late last night! ::)
As you rightly pointed out you can count the fins and will note the 8 fins on the 250 and 10 on the 405. Now thats true, blue Anorak stuff!
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/American%20Eagle%20ad%20DB%20Oct72.bmp.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/american%20eagle%20brochure.jpg)


Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: firko on June 27, 2009, 10:49:28 AM
Here's Jim McWhorters sweet American Eagle Kawasaki 250
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/american%20eagle%20kensmith.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: JC on June 27, 2009, 12:50:23 PM
Thanks Mark.  What I meant to point out noting the diff fin count is that it is 2 diff engines in the pic.

For a better pic of a husky-based-250-engined bike, see VMX #30 article on the BVM. Pic on p27 (top) that is supposed to be the bike they started w to restore the BVM is in fact a completely diff bike! It's the early Sprite frame, diff forks & brake pedal, & an 8-fin 250 Husky-based engine. Such a bike does exist, not just in brochures/ads!

Now here's another tho't. Line up one of the early Sprite frames against a Phantom/SuperPioneer frame & note the likeness. There are differences, but uncanny likenesses too.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on June 27, 2009, 09:19:32 PM
For a better pic of a husky-based-250-engined bike, see VMX #30 article on the BVM. Pic on p27 (top) that is supposed to be the bike they started w to restore the BVM is in fact a completely diff bike! It's the early Sprite frame, diff forks & brake pedal, & an 8-fin 250 Husky-based engine. Such a bike does exist, not just in brochures/ads!


Your on the ball JC-more interesting pieces to read..And in OZ too  ;D
cheers for that BVM article.
Got asked today at VMX "Whats a Sprite" and I could tell em too ;D Thanks  8)

Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: Tossa on June 28, 2009, 09:59:05 AM
Notice the thread also talking about Alron (Al & Ron Lyons).  I believe my father Brian Mitcheson ,was the first guy to ride for Alrons (in fact you could probably call him their STIG, lol!!).  He formed the Trail and Enduro Club over here in the west, he was great friends with them when they were first trying to develope the bike.  I remember he rode an Ossa powered  version, but I also believed they tried several different  motors.  he loved it.  I believed they did jig up their own frames, .  But I'll be able to clarify that when he gets back from the UK, next week
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: JC on June 29, 2009, 08:48:12 AM
Incredible Tossa! I was just going to try & track him down this week, as he's mentioned in a couple of articles I have. I'd love to know more about the 250 Alron in particular.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: Tossa on June 29, 2009, 09:20:48 AM
Incredible Tossa! I was just going to try & track him down this week, as he's mentioned in a couple of articles I have. I'd love to know more about the 250 Alron in particular.


He arrives back from UK this weekend, so will sit him down and see what info I can get out of him, probably have to ply him with my good red wine
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: mx250 on June 29, 2009, 09:31:39 AM
Incredible Tossa! I was just going to try & track him down this week, as he's mentioned in a couple of articles I have. I'd love to know more about the 250 Alron in particular.


He arrives back from UK this weekend, so will sit him down and see what info I can get out of him, probably have to ply him with my good red wine
Sounds like an interesting article for VMX ;) ;D.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: firko on June 29, 2009, 10:58:57 AM
This is turning into a great little yarn. Jonesy and I "discovered" this overlooked chapter in motocross history a number of years ago and we've been fans since. Alan had an original 405 Alron that he was forced to sell to pay some bills and now that the bills aren't such a problem any more has embarked on a campaign to restore a couple. He's restoring both Alron and American Eagle 405 models and he's sold me an American Eagle Kawasaki 250 frame and forks which I'll use to replicate a 1967 Maico 360 Sprite. VMX magazines Ken Smith is well into a Kawasaki powered American Eagle and we've recently heard of an Alron OSSA under resto in Sydney. The fact that Dean Rowe got 13k for his lovely Alron is testament that the interestis out there.

A bloke once told me that all of the really interesting bikes had been done to death and that there were no more challenges left. Well, I reckon Frank Hipkins Sprite/American Eagle/BVM/Alron is the best "new" bike to come along in a while. How these beaut things have been overlooked for so long in the world of VMX is a real mystery to me. I await Brian Mitchesons contribution to the saga with anticipation. :)
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: JC on June 29, 2009, 02:54:57 PM
Sounds like an interesting article for VMX ;) ;D.

Exactly what I was thinking!


Mark,

The reason they've been overlooked, it seems to me, is the reputation the 400's had w the dodgy gearbox. They didn't seem to be much good on the track & they didn't get very good reviews in the press.

But the Sprite rolling chassies & Ossa/Kaw-engined 250s seem to me to be another story. Likewise the Zundapp-engined 125.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: firko on June 29, 2009, 04:28:42 PM
Alans soon to start Alron project.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/alron%20al.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: mx250 on June 29, 2009, 04:43:38 PM
Complete with period 'factory' stand I see ;D.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on June 29, 2009, 08:57:39 PM
Hope this hasn't stolen too much of your thunder Tossa,for when ya dad gets home.

http://www.ozebook.com/aza/alron.htm

Sprite still wins- heads up   ;)   ;D
cheers

Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: Tossa on June 29, 2009, 10:40:46 PM
Hope this hasn't stolen too much of your thunder Tossa,for when ya dad gets home.

http://www.ozebook.com/aza/alron.htm

Sprite still wins- heads up   ;)   ;D
cheers


Doesn't steal any thunder, and yes the Sprite does win hands down.  Sorry to have stolen part of your thread about a beautiful bike.
That's a great article you found, but I believe there is more to the story regarding Alron and hopefully I'll get it out of the old man.  then again i could be totally wrong!!lol
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: firko on June 29, 2009, 10:46:16 PM
Are Alan and Ron Lyon still around? I'd like to find out their take on the saga in addition to the piece Ray did in an early VMX. What happened to the spares and left over bikes after it all went pear shaped?
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on June 29, 2009, 10:50:41 PM
Hope this hasn't stolen too much of your thunder Tossa,for when ya dad gets home.
http://www.ozebook.com/aza/alron.htm
Sprite still wins- heads up   ;)   ;D
cheers
Doesn't steal any thunder, and yes the Sprite does win hands down.  Sorry to have stolen part of your thread about a beautiful bike.
That's a great article you found, but I believe there is more to the story regarding Alron and hopefully I'll get it out of the old man.  then again i could be totally wrong!!lol

I'm finding it frustrating that the State library and JS Battye library have very little if no information and references too the Motorcycle industry for WA -one on Narrogin and other road racing and the Old Mortlocks Shop  in Perth ,but really sad not much else...
Oh well keep plodding along-got my relies in UK having a poke around the West Midlands area for some Sprite History  8)
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on June 29, 2009, 10:54:50 PM
Are Alan and Ron Lyon still around? I'd like to find out their take on the saga in addition to the piece Ray did in an early VMX. What happened to the spares and left over bikes after it all went pear shaped?

I know of one possible Husky engine from one Sprite at this point in time in WA---on a roll now... ;D
Hoping Tossa will have more news of the Alron pieces/parts -roll on page 5 ..8)
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: Tossa on June 30, 2009, 09:08:03 AM
Are Alan and Ron Lyon still around? I'd like to find out their take on the saga in addition to the piece Ray did in an early VMX. What happened to the spares and left over bikes after it all went pear shaped?

I know of one possible Husky engine from one Sprite at this point in time in WA---on a roll now... ;D
Hoping Tossa will have more news of the Alron pieces/parts -roll on page 5 ..8)

Hopefully the old man will be able to give some info and leads on whether there is anything left. 
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: firko on June 30, 2009, 11:05:44 PM
American Eagle 405
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/americaneagle.jpg)
American Eagle 250
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/american%20eagle%204.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: Tossa on July 06, 2009, 11:54:25 AM
My father Brian Mitcheson has returned from the UK, he has had a quick look at the thread and has headed home to gather his thoughts and provide some information that he can remember of the "Alron".  With what he inferred to me this could get quite juicy!!!

Barry
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: firko on July 07, 2009, 12:11:29 PM
My old friend Gus Priem (250 Adler VMX feature bike) has passed along these rare and interesting Sprite clippings.  It clearly shows that Sprite used genuine Husky engines prior to developing their own Husky clone engine. You've gotta love the Sprite Maico!
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/sprite%2001.jpg)

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/sprite%2008.jpg)

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/sprite%2007.jpg)

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/sprite%2006.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: firko on July 07, 2009, 12:14:57 PM
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/sprite%2005.jpg)

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/sprite%2004.jpg)

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/sprite%2003.jpg)

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/sprite%2002.jpg)

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/Sprite09.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: Tossa on July 07, 2009, 12:52:59 PM
great research firko, amazing what is coming out.  JC is going to ring my father to get the info he has on the Alron story.  thought it would be better that way, as I might appear biased.  But from my conversation with him when he got back from UK it could be very interesting.  It's amazing when you think back on what derivatives the Sprite was responsible for

Barry
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on July 07, 2009, 02:53:42 PM
Wonderful paper clippings Firko ,thanks to your friend Gus Ptiem.
She is definatley not unlike her other British Scrambler Sisters-Its the frame style you just gotta love,it can accommodate most anything  :-*
We will be picking up our Sprite this weekend ,no thanks to Australia Post for losing our share withdrawel papers.I should of just hand delivered straight to the stock broker myself who is located only 30km away.

JC don't forget to share your news  :P   ;D
cheers Alison
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: Tossa on July 07, 2009, 03:34:32 PM
Love the advert for Hants Grand International, what a line up, unbelievable.  Basically a world championship event.  Would pay good money to have seen that today
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: JC on July 08, 2009, 10:14:51 AM

JC don't forget to share your news  :P   ;D
cheers Alison

Will do, but it maybe in another place - like a certain glossy mag - if there's a story to tell that hasn't already been told. Brian is checking a few things out now, to confirm or otherwise, & trying to contact some of the guys involved back then.

Great posts Mark. One wonders what engine the 199 Schoolboy scrambler (in the Sprite Developments ad) used. Anybody know anything about that one? The ad looks circa 73. Surely not a Villiers by then! Earlier engine was 197 I think anyway & one would think it was well past its use-by date by then.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on July 08, 2009, 11:19:13 AM
Thanks JC-
RE:Villiers History-Surely they would be a pretty relieable engine  8)

http://www.lortim.demon.co.uk/vsih/intro.htm
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on July 12, 2009, 10:18:30 PM
Well what a productive day a modern MX event can bring.... :o
Arrived home with Sprite tucked away comfortably in the trailer with the CRF250. ;D
Yep ! folks where saying "what is that bike"? parked down the end of pit lane.. ;D

Surprised me how many commented to us about the Sprite.. "little did they know  ;D   ;)
Anyway Amal carb needs a good clean   :)
Few things need a click and a tweek :P
Thinking it may have had a Starbuck motor in it as mounts have been moved.
Road register bike plates have been removed off guards.  :-\
Very happy with the Villiers Motor that is neat as a pin.
Got him down a few pennies though. 8)
Ended up being a history lesson today to the unknowing modern folk...... :o
Special thanks to
My lover 
My husband and all involved in the information and consultation on the Sprite..
Gus Priem
JC
Mark Firko
and Jonesy
Tossa for future Alron knowledge. 8)
cheers Alison
ps...also caught up with a fellow that has a RM250 N/T 1979 for sale .Don't know much about anything after 75...he wants stuff all for it.,as he got it for $500.(it runs and all) so how long is that piece of string..?????

Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: firko on July 12, 2009, 10:26:48 PM
Enjoy it Alison. Let us know what parts you may need and we'll try get them for you. I like the Starbuck engine?? That would be a Starmaker. The engine mounts should be the same as for your engine. Maybe it had a Husky motor, who knows, knowing Sprite it probably had a small block Chevy in there. ;D
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on July 12, 2009, 10:41:05 PM
my husband will learn me yet... :D  (Starmaker)  ;)  Its been a big day  8)
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: mx250 on July 13, 2009, 09:11:09 AM
I came across this American Eagle resto. Enjoy. :)

http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/5646345_dsaB9#347284049_5UXov
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on July 13, 2009, 09:46:07 AM
Thanks MX250 8)
I have got a few magazine articles coming from ebay also.
All pieces of a jigsaw slowly coming together  ;D   8)
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: Tossa on July 13, 2009, 11:04:33 AM
Great to see you got it.  can't wait to see the bike in the flesh!!

I'll buy the 79 RM250, send me PM with his details,

Have fun

Barry
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: RED ALERT on July 13, 2009, 11:46:42 AM
 ;DHey Alison, I hear those Starbucks motors run great on coffee  ;D
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on July 13, 2009, 06:39:10 PM
(http://)(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/SpriteVilliers002.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: Tossa on July 13, 2009, 07:02:46 PM
Looks to be in pretty good nick for the start of a project. A lot of people will be waiting to see the end result.  Great pick up Steve and Alison, I'm jealous!!!
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: RED ALERT on July 13, 2009, 08:31:02 PM
Hey, nice catch, are you taking it to Clackline this weekend??  :)
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on July 13, 2009, 09:16:32 PM
Hey, nice catch, are you taking it to Clackline this weekend??  :)

No have to deliver the XL in crate to Manjimup for the trip North to Perth, then its east to whoop those Kiwis ass  :D   ;)    :-* 
cheers Alison
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on July 15, 2009, 10:50:00 AM
I received the article on the Alron from the Two Wheels  May 74 and as soon as I saw the paint on the 250 Enduro ,the first modern Australian street registrable motorcycle it looked familiar  :o

Quote: Aircraft tradesman play a big Perth in the rest of the Alron too.Mudguards and seat will be made by the only fiberglass worker in WA licensed to work on aircraft.Ron Lyon wanted to have the color impregnated in the fiberglass but was advised against it.Infra-red light conditions in Perth would make it alter color inside a year he was told.
When he was told he could have the parts fiinshed in the same paint that reisists fierce sunlight in high flying aircraft he decided that was the thing for his machines too.It was agood choice.The blue paint is deep and lustrous and if it wears as well as its reputation says it should ,it will keep the Alron looking good long after other machines begin to show wear of continuous bush use...

The point being the color blue has a connection to our British roots once again(Wedgewood)...this might be inane to you ,I reckons its cool how bike bits always relate back to our mother land England  ;)   ;D.........Can't bet the Brits   8)
I also own an old toy plane in the same blue  ::)

cheers for now ...yep will have to get the article scanned.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on July 15, 2009, 10:53:49 AM
Also very similar to this forum color  ;D

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/SpriteVilliers.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on July 15, 2009, 11:21:21 AM
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/SpriteVilliers006.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: Tossa on July 15, 2009, 01:53:14 PM
there's a possibility the blue one was the only one sold. 
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: JC on July 15, 2009, 03:31:48 PM
A, there's more than one TW article. All worth reading. As Tossa alludes, there may have been some pie in the sky too.
But both 250 or 400 looked quite nice for the era I reckon.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: Tossa on July 15, 2009, 04:40:02 PM
It really has turned into a very interesting story of the Sprite and it's offshutes and what great research done by a lot of people.  Have thoroughly enjoyed reading all the differing views, and the articles/photo's put forward etc.

With the Alron, lets just say it appears like an iceberg with only one third of it showing above the waterline.  now thats deep
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on July 15, 2009, 07:23:02 PM
Its been interesting comparing parts and frame shapes... ;D
I can tell you something and that's the block of metal footpeg's are common on a few and would raise the eyebrow of some scrutineers   ;)   ;D  what a hazard  :o
cheers
 JC did you find anthing out from the past WA history ? Did you find the bluey yet   ;D
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: JC on July 16, 2009, 12:08:00 PM
A, we're trying to track down more of the people who were involved w the Alron back then to confirm/otherwise a few things. Of course, even when we find some of them, memories have faded after 35yrs too. Apparently the 1st 400 they got literally blew up on the 1st outing. Not a good start

Anyone know how to contact Brian Clarkson? He was at CD6 I believe so someone must know.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: firko on July 16, 2009, 12:30:15 PM
No Brian Clarkson wasn't at CD6 John, he was at Jonesys 50th a week later and did attend the Coff Nats 2 years ago. We forgot to get his contact details when we were talking to him but I'll see what I can chase up.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: Tossa on July 16, 2009, 12:32:25 PM
No luck yet with Graham Sully but still looking.  I spoke with the old man and from what he told JC and myself, I reckon Underbelly three looks good.  But that's anothor story
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: JC on July 17, 2009, 05:42:31 PM
No Brian Clarkson wasn't at CD6 John, he was at Jonesys 50th a week later and did attend the Coff Nats 2 years ago. We forgot to get his contact details when we were talking to him but I'll see what I can chase up.

Mark, that'd be great if you could.

Boagy was here yesterday & I asked him about his Sprite motor. Its the 250 4sp Husky-copy engine. Interestingly, he also put numerous wanted ads (for an Alron) in local WA papers when his sister lived over there & never got 1 reply.

There's more than a few things that beg the question, how many were ever really made/sold? (250 or 400) Perhaps not nearly as many as was (inconsistently) claimed.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on July 17, 2009, 06:09:41 PM
Yep ,maybe one man's dream.
Apparently they where around in the day ,but not too many.
Could be someones shed find tomorrow.
The fellow that owns the one for 12k over east,looks like the only one we all know of at this point in time.
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on July 19, 2009, 08:53:44 PM
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/villiers_sprite.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: JC on July 20, 2009, 08:48:37 AM
Looks nice, but.... no downtubes from backbone to swingarm pivot. How strong is that ??? (even for trials)

Just backtracking to earlier pics/posts, something we noticed when Boagy was here is that the early/original Sprite MX frames for the Villiers & Maico engines have the swingarm pivot much higher in the frame than for the other engines, no doubt to accommodate the weird shape of the Villers engine/gearbox.

Also I read recently that, tho there was talk of Husky sueing Sprite over the Husky-like engines, they couldn't cos it was originally an English design anyway - implication being that Husky may have acquired it 'improperly'. Hipkins claimed he had the paperwork to prove the british origin of the engine.

Does that open a can of worms? The 4sp Husky engine was a development of their earlier 3sp 175 engine as I recall, but did that engine copy the .......  ???
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on July 20, 2009, 09:34:40 AM
Thanks JC,
Reading the simpler last night in British Motorcycling history and this maybe the reason why Sprite frames have no name now and were disbanded due to the controversy,politics and heart ache involved of trying to make it in the Motorcycling manufacturing world.  :'( Another sad British tale)

Now to starting digging in the Husky pile  ;D

Hope to catch up with you at the Nationals so we can discuss more on the frames etc.Interesting about the pivots.
cheers S&A WA
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: JC on July 20, 2009, 12:14:04 PM
Thanks JC,
Hope to catch up with you at the Nationals so we can discuss more on the frames etc.Interesting about the pivots.
cheers S&A WA


A, I wish. Unfortunately I have a clash of dates w a prior engagement so won't be there.


Back to the Alron, has anybody ever heard of "works rider Ron Johnston" ?? who is said to have done the "development in WA" of the Alron before 'production'
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: mx250 on July 20, 2009, 03:32:45 PM
(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/OzVMX/americaneagle2.jpg)(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/OzVMX/americaneagle.jpg)

Enjoy ;D
http://www.vintagemx.us/images/races/Tom%20White%20Museum%20Trip/Picture_15.htm
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on July 24, 2009, 06:25:22 PM
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/HuskyQ001.jpg)

THANKS TO CARL AND MARK for the article,much appreciated.  8)
Alison &  Steven
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX60 on July 26, 2009, 07:07:51 PM
After following this thread I was prompted to follow up on an Alron Ossa I have known off.

This owner had brought the bike directly from Ron Lyons and it has taken me 10 years of persistence to finally clinch the deal.

I have picked up the bike and will post photos at a later date.

 :)

Allison - Thanks for spuring me on !!

 
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on July 26, 2009, 11:00:51 PM
Your welcome VMX60  8)
I have also had positive feedback from T250K (forum member) whom traveled 150km today to catch up with us and have a chat at the Denmark MX,we didn't have more than 10 minutes as our son had a tank slapper on his bike and had taken his finger nail off and bits of flesh crushed  :'( note:Always have your clutch perch that wee bit loose.
We packed up and did a run to the Denmark hospital (country hospitals are just fantastic-places of Angels).Then home north 300km.

We'd like to thank Mike T250K and Gill (on her Birthday) for traveling all that way,(being nearly a 300km round trip)and hope to catch up for longer next time.
Here's to the Vintage Spirit :-*

Q:So has anyone seen a Sprite Villiers 36A lately    ;D    ???
cheers Alison
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX60 on July 26, 2009, 11:33:53 PM
Alison
Hope the young boy is OK , be a long trip home when your in pain.
Just a follow up to the ALRON story Mortlocks Suzuki built a ALRON/SUZUKI TM250 motor and a current WA VMX racer built it.

After the NAT will fill the details in.
Talking to the guy that raced it this week. trying to find out more of the ALRON STORY
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: JC on July 27, 2009, 09:21:09 AM
After following this thread I was prompted to follow up on an Alron Ossa I have known off.

This owner had brought the bike directly from Ron Lyons and it has taken me 10 years of persistence to finally clinch the deal.

I have picked up the bike and will post photos at a later date.

 

Thats excellent VMX60. I've often tho't there must be someone in VMX who knows of one or two.

Is yours an MX or enduro model?
Are you in WA?
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX60 on July 27, 2009, 10:09:23 PM
JC-Tossa-Allison

Here are some photos of the Alron Ossa purchased this weekend in WA.

I am still not sure, as most people on this thread, of the true history of the Alron.

I think this would have been a MX model converted to Enduro, as everything is tacked on to fit the Enduro gear.

The motor is SDR engine No with Amal carby.

Frame is a Sprite - not locally made.

Open to any comments.

(http://i28.tinypic.com/cu9es.jpg)

(http://i29.tinypic.com/jtl7cx.jpg)

(http://i32.tinypic.com/2ec41mu.jpg)

 
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on July 27, 2009, 10:19:27 PM
Clean the bath out    :D........... ;)

Looks like it's all there.Very nice find.  8) anymore  ;)  ;D
Did you get some info/articles/newspaper clips etc from the seller.  ?
What year is it-as the frame has a fatter tubing at the top front where the tank sits compared to mine ?
last but most important -wanna sell your sidecovers  ;D
I know a few that worked at Mortlock's.... ah more phone calls  :P
cheers Alison
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: Tossa on July 27, 2009, 10:38:58 PM
Don't know whether to somment or not, might leave that to JC as he's been talking to my old man and others about Alron

But sure is a great sight to see.  The belief is that Alron only ever sold one bike!!!  The blue one (enduro) in the magazine photo.  The rest of the story appears to be extemely interesting from the information I've been given by my old man.  So don't want to spill any beans at it could turn into one of those exposes!!
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX60 on July 27, 2009, 10:49:53 PM
Dogs not swimming this time of year :)

Year ???  70/73 at a guess

Only sales infro is a old business card and a hand written note of motor service and oil specs.

The alloy side covers have been butchered, cut in half on the other side to clear old exhaust (bugger). :(

As always having had a great interest in Ossas I am very pleased to have finally acquired this treasure. ;D
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: firko on July 27, 2009, 11:05:34 PM
Nice find. After years of research and hunting down Frank Hipkin built bikes, this is the first OSSA Alron I've ever seen. It's interesting that this bike has the late fastback frame, the same as Dean Rowes 405 MX. I think we've been victims of a bit of creative skulduggery somewhere along the way. In Ray Ryans piece in issue #7 of VMX it's quoted that "Alron were to build some 60 bikes in all. Approximately 40 were OSSA powered with the remaining 20 or so equipped with the flawed yet potent 'Son of Husky' Sprite 400 (sic) engine and transmission". When asked just how many bikes he actually sold, Sydney Alron distributor Brian Clarkson was unsure but admitted it was "only a small few". It's funny that I've seen more American Eagles and Sprites here in Australia than "our own" Alrons. I've seen only Alan Jones genuine 405 that he sold in the mid 90's to "Gilbert" who supposedly dismantled the bike and it possibly ended up at the tip. Then there was the bike Dean Rowe restored and sold at CD4 that I posted on page 2 of this thread. There was also another 405 that raced at an early Amaroo Park vintage meeting that was fitted with Maico AW forks and laid down shocks. I told the owner his bike was ilegal to race in such a guise and that he wouldn't be allowed back until he "demodified" the suspension. He and the bike were never seen again. I believe there is a 405 in a private collection in Victoria and another under restoration in Sydney, possibly the 'Amaroo' bike.

It's strange that despite Lyons claim of 40 OSSA powered machines, this is the first to reappear to my knowledge. My hunch is that as few as 20 Alrons were actually sold, most of them being rebadged 405 Sprites straight off the ship. Between JC researching the 250 Alron and Alan Jones and myself  researching Sprite and American Eagle as well as Alron and none of us having uncovered an OSSA Alron, Alan and I and I'd asume JC would have to come to the conclusion that far fewer Alrons, especially the 250's, were produced than Ron Lyon claims. There may be a movie script in this ;D.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on July 27, 2009, 11:16:45 PM
What about TAX-Sprite was sold in kit for TAX reasons-movie alright  ;D  Doc bring the popcorn  ;D
Don't know if your allowed to say the word TAX on here  :-X
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX60 on July 27, 2009, 11:24:42 PM
Firko

Totally AGREE the number of Alron/ossa maybe one or two ??? :-\  

This bike was brought from Ron Lyons was his personal bike. This was brought from his home not his business.

 
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on July 28, 2009, 08:04:35 AM
Firko
Totally AGREE the number of Alron/ossa maybe one or two ??? :-\  
This bike was brought from Ron Lyons was his personal bike. This was brought from his home not his business.
 

Interesting ! are you saying Ron Lyons is still on this great blue planet of ours. ?
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: JC on July 28, 2009, 08:06:29 AM
VMX60,  This is a fantastic find! Any chance of a good side-on pic of RHS of whole bike?

It looks to me like it is one of the "development bikes" ridden in WA enduros by Tossa's dad & Graham Sully. The fact that it was bought from RL's home, not new from the shop would also support that.

In fact, for various reasons, I'd say its the very bike pictured in one of the TW articles & also in Ray Ryans article in VMX #7 (same pic), which I believe was Mitch's bike.

In both captions for those pics it is said to be an MXer, but any Ossa-buff can tell you its not the Stiletto/Phantom top end, & the MX Alron 250s ran down-pipes like the 400s. Most likely an SDR engine in the bike in those pics - just as you've found on this one.

As far as I can see in VMX60's pics posted above, this is the later "fastback" style Sprite frame, not the early one, or the Oz-made frame of the blue one in the TW article posted above.

Apart from Mitch, I've managed to speak w another 2 guys closely associated w the Alrons back in the day & who all rode/raced them. There seems to have been some 'tall stories' told in the press back then ("they were trying to create an image", no doubt of a successful enterprise) & there are a lot of contradictions in the various articles. eg The nos produced were variously said to have been 25, 35, 50, or 60, tho its sometimes unclear whether they're referring to the 250s ("real alrons") or the whole lot. In the ever-present tension between accuracy & expediency in the press, one seems to have come off 2nd best.

However, like Tossa, I'm not sure how much to say in print. So bear in mind these are only opinions & pls don't quote me. (I'd rather avoid a lawsuit) My hunch about how many were produced is perhaps only half a dozen ea 250s & 400s. I hope to be able to give reasons why & point out some of the anomolies in the story when I get a little more info.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: JC on July 28, 2009, 08:10:29 AM
This bike was brought from Ron Lyons was his personal bike. This was brought from his home not his business.
 

Interesting ! are you saying Ron Lyons is still on this great blue planet of ours. ?
cheers
Alison, I'm lead to believ RL is still alive, but we haven't been able to get a contact yet. Mitch said his father Sid Lyon (who financed the Alron venture) has died.

I believe what VMW60 is saying is that he bought it from the guy who bought it from RL back in the day
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on July 28, 2009, 08:15:01 AM
Firko
Totally AGREE the number of Alron/ossa maybe one or two ??? :-\  
This bike was brought from Ron Lyons was his personal bike. This was brought from his home not his business.
 
Interesting ! are you saying Ron Lyons is still on this great blue planet of ours. ?
cheers
Alison, I'm lead to believ RL is still alive, but we haven't been able to get a contact yet.
I believe what VMW60 is saying is that he bought it from the guy who bought it from RL back in the day

Good oh -as all who I have spoken to didn't know where RLyons was now.
Different days different friends..Thanks JC  :)
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: firko on July 28, 2009, 12:40:30 PM
I made a slight mistake in my previous post in relation to whether the bike has a fastback frame or not. The bike quite clearly has a fastback frame, the same as the Dean Rowe 405. I corrected the post. I also suspect that JC is correct in his assumption that the bike VMX60 now has is the bike in the middle top photo on page 40 of VMX#7.

After reading Ray Ryans piece in issue #7 of VMX I'm starting to believe that Ron Lyon was being a little sparing with the truth. Maybe it was ego or maybe there was a deeper seated reason to not tell the real story but there are many parts of the VMX interview that don't ring true. I've previously discussed the '60 bikes built' scenario and now think that less than 20 bikes were built in total with only two or three being OSSA powered, the rest fully imported complete Sprite 405's with Alron stickers fitted to the tank. I doubt that we'll ever get a truthful number from Lyons but will chase up the records from Sprite in the UK and see if they can tell me exactly how many bikes were sold and exported to Alron.

One point I have a problem with is that there were "Aussie made" frames. To quote the VMX piece "At Jandakot, Alron had their own in-house welder who built the frames from chrome-moly which Ron had to have specially inported. He( Lyons) quipps, "We probably had enough at any one time to build a run of 200 bikes, because we were obliged to order in such huge quantities"

Another point that seems to have been buried is the mystery as to whatever happened to the superflous frames and parts after the Alron concern went belly up. Once again I quote Rays article " Only three or four chassis 'went to the tip' but the rest survived as a job lot sold to an enterprising farmer who hoped to capitalise on its future value as parts. These components were destined to fade from the face of the Earth and the once busy Alron Jandakot factory fell silent. The new buyer had sheds full of old bikes at the time and simply bought the lot including many now rare Metisse components."

My take on the above statement is that the sale to 'a farmer' never happened because the parts never existed. If such a 'farmer with sheds full of old bikes' had existed I suspect that he and his stash would have come to light at some stage over the last 37 years.

I now strongly believe that the Alron saga was a scam with more untruths told than fact. Ray Ryan was one of our sports great journalists who instilled the concept of research into me. I now feel that if he would have taken some of his own advice and scratched the surface of the Alron take as told by Ron Lyons he would have found a far more interesting story that the sanitized snow job Lyons fed him back in 2000.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: Tossa on July 28, 2009, 01:40:55 PM


One point I have a problem with is that there were "Aussie made" frames. To quote the VMX piece "At Jandakot, Alron had their own in-house welder who built the frames from chrome-moly which Ron had to have specially inported. He( Lyons) quipps, "We probably had enough at any one time to build a run of 200 bikes, because we were obliged to order in such huge quantities"


A well staged photographic stunt!!!
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: JC on July 28, 2009, 03:49:24 PM
Mark, Tossa,

I've come to almost the exact same conclusions. The more research you do the more dodgy it seems.

There's only been a few pics shown of Alrons from back in the day - the same few over & over - the blue registerable one w the diff frame, the one said to be the MXer (but its not), & a 400. And the author(s) of the TW articles never actually rode a bike!

The "factory at Jandacot" it seems was just a shed, nothing more, & w no workforce. The "production line" didn't exist as far as I can tell. There is one shot (often published, including in VMX #7 where its cropped from the original) of 6 x 400's in a shed being assembled, but there's no workforce anywhere in sight & there's no guarantee its Alrons in Perth , not Sprites in UK.

However it does look like an Aussie shed (corrugated iron), & there's no union jacks (or Alron symbols) on the tank so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt & say it probably is Alrons being assembled in Perth. My guess is that these were the only 6 that came in. RL himself is quoted as saying "they were a disaster" & got a bad reputation quickly. Why would you get another shipment???

One line in one of the articles says something like "there are always about 6 Alrons being assembled" infering a continuous production run. My take is that they remained there (partly assembled as in the pic) cos nobody was buying them & he didn't bother completing their assembly till he had an order.

Hopefully tomorrow I'll get a chance to type up all the anomolies in the press articles of the day.

But hot off the press is news of another Alron. I can scarcely believe it but Huskyevo just rang to say another 250 Ossa-engined one turned up at a VMX/Vinduro on the weekend!

We'll hunt em all out yet!  Stay tuned.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: JC on July 29, 2009, 11:50:42 AM
OK, lets look at some of the inconsistencies & perceived inaccuracies in the press articles of the day & since.

There are numerous incidental ones like "Brian Mitcheson made his 360 perform creditably" (he never owned/raced a 360/400/405) & "early in 73 RL wheeled out the first production Alron"  (ie 250 'real Alron', but it was early 74). These can likely be passed off as oversights, but there are more serious ones which appear to be "trying to create an image" but which cast doubts on the credibility.  eg:

"RL's men will assemble them". Word from the west is that there were no "men" or "factory". They had a couple of employees at the retail shop ("headquarters"), but it seems the only "men" at the Jandacot shed ("factory") where the bikes were slowly assembled were RL himself after-hours (he spent most of his day at the retail shop apparently), & a fitter from the nearby airport (also after hours) who 'bent a few tubes & welded a few brackets' & probably made the frame for the blue bike featured in 5/74 TW.

There is one pic of the "production line" & another of the "factory at Jandacot". You'd think it would be safe to assume that the "production line" is in "the factory". ie same building. Trouble is, its hard not to conclude that the pics are of/in diff buildings. One is brick & trimdek walls (perhaps a garage attached to his house ??); the other is a corrugated iron shed (said to be the "factory at Jandacot").

In 6/73 frame jigs were said to be "now being made by a Perth civil engineering firm", but in 11/73 we have the "first ever shots of the 250 enduro prototype" - still in a Sprite frame, not even w engine plates yet.

The 400s were said to have had "development in WA by works rider Ron Johnston". You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that they were rebadged Sprites developed in UK, tho they may have had a diff aircleaner as was claimed.

There is a big-deal made in 11/73 of the drama involved in getting "this special tube" & a suitable pipe-bender to bend it for the 250 frames, but in 5/74 the first production "real Alron" is said to be made of "a bit heavier" tubing  cos "we couldn't get the right tubing in time".

"Sprite will ship to the Alron works at the rate of about 15 a month initially of the 405 machines".  Well...dreams are free I suppose & you might as well dream big.

"He planned an initial run of 10 (250) machines & then 40 a month for 3 mths to test demand". Ditto

Compare the following 2 statements from the same article: "The registerable machine gave way to the pure off-roader in the face of heavy demands from WA cattle stations".  cf   "RL had to cater for his biggest market. And that meant the WA enduro enthusiast". Which is it? the cattle stations or the enduro enthusiast? And how big was the WA enduro scene/market at the time? The guys who rode the "development bikes" in WA competition don't remember any Alrons in competition (MX or enduro) apart from their own. Still more, a later report from RL's father Syd states they sold "30 250s, all MX except for three road/enduros". So many contradictions! Tall stories??

And "heavy demand" ??

Even years later, the questionable statements continue:

"The first two pre-production prototypes (250s) winning the WA enduro championship in 72".
It seems none even existed in 72.  See above where the 1st pics of the incomplete prototype 250 appeared w a splash in 11/73. Mitch came close to winning the championship one year on an Alron but fell short.

"Front forks by Marzocchi" - yeh, right!!

"the 405MX...w Sprites copy of  Husq engine mounted in the Australian frame & w Australian auxiliaries". Hmmm - they're all sprite frames.

"At the time, Alron operated three retail shops in Perth". Their one shop was at 3 diff locations, but apparently they never had 3 retail shops at once.

Since Rickman (which they were now importing) didn't make a 250 enduro, "we went ahead & created a local Metisse model of our own  - a road registerable Montesa MX-based model w a wide ratio gearbox & built about 30 of them". No pic of such a model has ever appeared. None of those 3 guys I spoke to had ever seen or heard of it, incl their east coast dealer who sold a lot of Rickmans for them.

"The once busy Alron factory... fell silent". Was it ever busy? See above

"Alron had their own in-house welder who built the frames from Cr-mo". Ditto.



I remember there being a lot of skepticism back in the day about this venture. For me, its more than skepticism now.

Now for a little that does appear to be the truth:

Of the 400/405s it was stated "The kindest way of looking at the Sprite venture is to say it didn't work. They were... troublesome. Part of the bother stemmed from casual assembly in England, but trouble seemd to follow trouble... It didn't take long for the Sprite's general bad reputation to spread". And my guess is that very few sales followed. Thus, "there is now (11/73) a continuous line-up of about half a dozen Alrons under construction in the factory" - cos the 400s weren't shifting/selling, it seems to me on accouint of their bad reputation. (the 250s hadn't been built yet). Mitch says their gearboxes were soft, as if the metallurgy &/or heat treatment wasn't right, or at least wasn't consistent as there are some reports that some 400s were OK. My guess is that Mr Hipkin didn't have the QC at the foundary up to scratch.

And: "Rickman were building wonderful bikes which simply took care of my problem... They gradually took over from our own Alron bikes". ie The Alrons didn't die cos of lack of dealer interest/support as he claimed in the press, but in Mitch's words cos he lost interest when he saw what Rickman were producing & he realized he couldn't match it.

So how many were built? Apart from the blue bike in TW (& VMX #7), the "development bikes" ridden by Roger Weir in MX (a 400 & a 250) & by Mitch & Graham Sully (250s) in enduros, Brian Clarkson sold a handful (as best he remembers, a couple of 400s & a couple of 250s) & bought his own 400. That amounts to only about half a doz of ea. It doesn't mean there weren't more, but... we have our doubts. (But lets hope our doubts are proven wrong)

Currently I know of 3 x 250's in existence & a few 400s & Mark has indicated traces of a couple more 400s & perhaps another 250. If you have one or know the whereabouts of one, pls speak up.


Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: Tossa on July 29, 2009, 06:31:15 PM
I can't remember ever seeing RL ride a bike, he was a bit of a hippy!!.  never rode off road
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX60 on July 29, 2009, 07:59:42 PM
JC,

Your right hand side photos as requested 

Every body still doing their homework on the Alron story - bloody amazing !!

Makes my 10 year wait worth while, as all members of the VMX family are always after that next treasure.

My 20 years plus of chasing Ossas all over the State (and Euro bikes) only part I have ever found that I know of -

Alron 400 model parts; new cyclinder head and conrod kit, both used to repair a 400 Husky. Seller claimed to have a shed full of Alron bikes and parts, which we have all heard before, bullshit !!

As Firko said WHERE ARE THEY  ???

I just keep looking at the photo in VMX #7 - could this really be this bike. There sure is enough tacked on bits and pieces to claim it's a development model.

The guy I purchased this bike off quoted RON "after much R and R this was the hot pipe setup. Bloody Hell it's a DT2 standard pipe. Maybe better than a SDR Ossa pipe.

I think the reason this bike survived is because the lower left hand fork leg it cracked right through to the axel. Obviously retired to the back of the shed 20 plus years ago.

(http://i31.tinypic.com/2qsouo2.jpg)

(http://i25.tinypic.com/t5iv7r.jpg)

(http://i32.tinypic.com/wvpeur.jpg)

(http://i26.tinypic.com/jju4uh.jpg)



 
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: Curly3 on July 29, 2009, 09:02:16 PM
Looks like a TS 250 muffler to me?
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: firko on July 29, 2009, 11:33:48 PM
The pipe's from a DT1 Yamaha Steve. So this is the trick pipe old Ron developed for the machine.  :-\

Shit, this saga gets even better  ;D. I really think there's a great story in this, starting right back with Frank Hipkins manipulation of the British sales tax system, the odd and mysterious downfall of the McCormick Corporation in the USA through to our dear old "Fibber Ron" Lyon and his non existant factory and the almost identical story with the ill fated BVM in Belgium.

The whole Sprite/American Eagle/BVM/Alron story is littered with con men, scoundrels, liars and cheats. Every single version of Frank Hipkins Sprite went belly up with investors and other interested parties left with little to show for their investment dollar.

This is one of the best unknown stories in motocross history and it's our little "forum detective agency" that's uncovering the dirt. This is why I love doing what I do. Congratualtions to JC, VMX60,Tossa, my mate Jonesy, Clarko and all of the other punters who've added to this great yarn. I wonder what else we can uncover?
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on July 30, 2009, 08:45:27 AM
You lot of little faith,we've only been digging for a short while and not looked in all the sheds and contacted all people involved in the story and life of the Alron.
Give it time,even if it takes another few years.
Time to take a plate of scones around to RL and have a cup of erble tea Tossa.  ;D
Keep digging   8)
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: Tossa on July 30, 2009, 09:56:16 AM
You lot of little faith,we've only been digging for a short while and not looked in all the sheds and contacted all people involved in the story and life of the Alron.
Give it time,even if it takes another few years.
Time to take a plate of scones around to RL and have a cup of erble tea Tossa.  ;D
Keep digging   8)

I don't know if it was of little faith, but understand where you are soming from.  When the name Alron was first mentioned in this thread, it brought back a lot of memories for me as I spent quite a bit of time in the Alron shop, the original one being in Beaufort St Highgate, they even did some work on my Police Bike (illegal mods!! lol). Most of that time was chasing my old man (Mitch) who spent a lot of time there, basically every day.

The statements made earlier about works riders and developers, made me query what involvement my father had in all this, as i had remembered that he too was a "work" rider. When everyone talked about the factory at jandakot, it came to light from conversations with dad that the photo session was a set up with a pipe bending machine and a few sprite frames scattered around.  no staff were every seen as there were none (I believe there were claims of up to about 40 people working in the so called factory!!!).

The lives of Ron and Al lyons can only be described as a bit bazaar, and I don't want to express what occurred in this forum as it is a bit shady, JC would know where I'm coming from and I believe that he is still investigating.

This really is a damn interesting thread, with great contributions from all.  It's amazing what a jog of the memory can cause, lets keep going.

Alison/Steve, bottle of red at Wandering and two chairs, might get you some very interesting info.  Am trying to talk the old man into attending the event.  Let me tell you he has some very interesting info on all this and lots of other stuff regarding mx and enduro's in the state of WA during the 70's

Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: mx250 on July 30, 2009, 10:17:38 AM

Alison/Steve, bottle of red at Wandering and two chairs, .......

Don't forget the tape recorder ;) ;D.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on July 30, 2009, 11:00:04 AM
Have to be a soft red-not that rough stuff  >:(  :P  :'(

I have made phone calls this morning and have been in the deep South West and now have landed in Perth with the phone info.
Expecting a phone call again this morning-may end up at Mitch's home number   ;)   ;D
Some say on the phone..."gee your going back in time love "  ;D keeps there brain active remembering,it's good for them.  8)
The media and written articles are an interpretation of one persons mind,so don't believe every thing you see/read.
In saying that Tossa there quiet probably is alot more about this one great Australia Dream that didn't end up at the top end of the market or the "pointy end" as some say.  8)
I'll have me eyes peeled forever now looking for a Sprite or Alron .  :o
cheers



Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: Tossa on July 30, 2009, 11:17:28 AM
Have to be a soft red-not that rough stuff  >:(  :P  :'(

I have made phone calls this morning and have been in the deep South West and now have landed in Perth with the phone info.
Expecting a phone call again this morning-may end up at Mitch's home number   ;)   ;D

cheers
Do you want his number
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on July 30, 2009, 11:22:10 AM
Have to be a soft red-not that rough stuff  >:(  :P  :'(
I have made phone calls this morning and have been in the deep South West and now have landed in Perth with the phone info.
Expecting a phone call again this morning-may end up at Mitch's home number   ;)   ;D
cheers
Do you want his number

If you like too hand it over....but I ain't cooking scones   :D    ;)
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: JC on July 30, 2009, 12:27:51 PM
Yes, I think the best one to talk to RL is Mitch, so I've left it to him to track RL down. He was close to RL for a long time & commented to me that he thinks RL would tell him the truth.

As Tossa says, there are some shady things floating around that neither of us is going to repeat here but just adds to the credibility saga.

If there were more produced you'd think that 15yrs or more of VMX, JustBikes & ebay would have seen some more turn up. But lets hope there is/was more.

Alison, yr dead right: "don't believe everything you read". Thats the whole point.

Thanks for the extra pics VMX60. Much appreciated. Love the extra grab handles & angle-iron brake pedal. I think the original brake pedal went under the footpeg not over it

Can you tell me if there's any ID # on the frame/steering-head pls??

Also, can you track down the story on the Suz-engined one pls. That would have taken a lot of work to put a side-port engine in a double-downtube frame.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: Curly3 on July 30, 2009, 08:58:00 PM
I don't doubt your right Firko.
It looked very 70's 250 Savage to me. Carl had one when he worked at Hazel & Moore.
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: mx250 on July 30, 2009, 09:15:15 PM
I don't doubt your right Firko.
It looked very 70's 250 Savage to me. Carl had one when he worked at Hazel & Moore.
It's DT1-2, but the header has been cut, maybe shortened, rotated and rewelded.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX247 on July 31, 2009, 09:41:01 PM
Ok I have been in contact with three gentleman of long motorcycle involvement, all of whom know very little about the Alron and answering my question of how many where built and how many are around today.
I'll probably repeat.  ::)
Most of the Alrons made where the trials version.
RL and family had a MC shop(Perth) and where the BMW rep amongst other makes of bikes finishing up in 1981.
Didn't Ossa only come in 230cc and not a 400cc ? in the Alron ?

Next step the Business registry of WA

I have two more people to contact at this stage-may have to wait till after the Qld holiday.
That's it for now,  8)  Not much but a bit at least  :)
cheers

Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: firko on July 31, 2009, 10:38:52 PM
Quote
Most of the Alrons made where the trials version.
With respect Alison...That's bullshit, they didn't make a trials Alron at all...never, ever.
Quote
Didn't Ossa only come in 230cc and not a 400cc ? in the Alron ?
OSSA were 250 by the time Alron came out. The '400cc' engine is a Sprite engine. OSSA didn't make a 400.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: Tossa on August 01, 2009, 08:59:02 AM
I'm with you Firko

the only trials version of Alron, was I believe my father's when he put a sidecar on it and competed in trials.  I think even an Australian championship, but no trials ever made

Don't remember him being a BMW rep, they were the Rickman rep when in Beaufort St highgate.  When in Newcastle St Perth(somewhere around there, long time ago), can't really remember if they were associate with any brand, only really went ther once in 1975
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JC on August 01, 2009, 09:13:05 AM
Yeh, spot-on Mark (of course).

Apparently, Mitch remembers he & RL came about 5th in oZ trials titles on that sidecar version Tossa mentions. It was just a chair bolted to Mitch's 250 enduro w an extra heavy flywheel.

Just found an old ad for Sprite Developments 405 Trials Rustler. Specs 84x72, 30hp @ 5500, 32mm Amal, 4sp, 51" w'base, 30" seat ht, 11" ground clearence, 198lb.  (Husky-clone motor, but w side port barrel & single downtube frame) But Alron never brought them in as far as I know.

Article posted above by Alison which she sent me a copy in the mail, says 1st Sprite frames in 64 were a strengthened copy/version of Cotton Cougar frame, w Norton Roadholder forks, till he made his own swingarm front end when norton supply ran out. Was the cougar frame any/much diff to the cobra frame?

Alron M/Cs were variously reported to have sold Suzuki, Yamaha, Triumph, BMW, Rickman & even Motobecane (tho the latter may not have happened as it was the time of the french nuclear tests in the Pacififc & there was a union ban on Fr imports.) Mitch said they sold a lot of road Rickmans & a few 125 Zundap-engined enduros.

I've tracked down Brian Clarkson. He thinks he still may have his records from the shop at Granville. If he has (& can find it) he maybe able to  check how many Alrons he sold, but he lost a lot of paperwork in a flood a few months ago, so we maybe too late. He's fairly sure he sold "3 or 4 x400s" ("People liked their grunty power") & "2 x250s" - MXs). He says the 400's g'box wasn't any/much worse than the Husky's (which he rode for many yrs prior to the Alron) as far as he can recall but rings/pistons didn't last as long. Someone stole his 400 from a friends place at Bathurst. He sold lots of Rickmans for them too - mostly road ones but "quite a few VR-engine MXs" too. He knows nothing of the supposed Rickman 250 Enduro RL supposed built & "sold about 30" of.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: firko on August 01, 2009, 09:23:00 AM
Quote
Article posted above by Alison which she sent me a copy in the mail, says 1st Sprite frames in 64 were a strengthened copy/version of Cotton Cougar frame
That surprises me. Even though the Cotton and Sprite frames are similar in design, thy're still very different. Compare my Cotton Cougar frame (below) to Alisons Sprite.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/cotton%20004.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JC on August 01, 2009, 09:36:03 AM
Yeh, surprised me too Mark, so I went in search of Cougars on the net, but thats a much better pic. There is some kinship beyond them both being double downtube!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX247 on August 01, 2009, 10:02:59 AM
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/Camptrailor017.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX247 on August 01, 2009, 10:04:41 AM
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/Camptrailor018.jpg)

Steven has made her naked .
Hope photos help.

Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: firko on August 01, 2009, 10:13:25 AM
Like most Brit page 3 girls, she comes up a treat with her top off! The frame is basically the same as my early American Eagle Kawasaki frame (Sprite), nothing at all like the Cotton Cougar or Cobra (which are the same geometry and bends but the earlier Cobra frame uses castings on the tube butt joints, similar to the differences between a BSA A50 frame and that of a Goldy)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/american%20eagle%20250%20firko.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JC on August 01, 2009, 10:27:29 AM
I misrepresented slightly. So I quote:

"In 1964, he established another tiny business... to build his 'ideal' scrambler incorporating many features he liked. The machine comprised a strengthened & modified Cotton Cougar frame, Norton telescopic front forks, Villiers crankcases, Alpha crankshaft & Greeves cylinder barrel w revised porting. The first batch of six sold quickly and... production soon hit four/five per week."

Interestingly, after Sprite folded in 74 after Am Eagle went bust (& he didn't get paid for a big shipment) "he re-entered the motorcycle world w a reworked Sprite named the Redorne but that didn't last long" 

Anybody know anything about that one??
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: mc 61 on August 01, 2009, 07:48:31 PM
I have not read every word of this post but will, I know a guy in melbourne who has a fully restored Alron will try to get a photo to post and any info he has. Its a lot nicer resto than the one that sold at CD 4 no disrespect.
Cheers Mark.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: Hoony on August 01, 2009, 07:51:37 PM
Interesting Mark !

thats not Macca's one he had say 15 years ago is it? it needed a resto when macca had it.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: mc 61 on August 01, 2009, 08:10:03 PM
That would be the one, looks a million dollars will have photo's monday hopefully.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX247 on August 01, 2009, 08:23:15 PM
That would be the one, looks a million dollars will have photo's monday hopefully.

bring it on MC 61-keep finding them  8)
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX60 on August 01, 2009, 08:46:59 PM
JC,

The research on this thread is unbelievable.

As I mentioned to Allison, the only paperwork with this bike was a business card from that time the bike was purchased. It just quotes the brands carried and the current address (for that time). On the rear it has Ron's home address where the guy picked up this bike.

Do they still make BP Powerstroke mix listed  ;D  ;D

I do believe now that this is Mitch's bike or the one he road as in the box with the headlight is the very extra heavy flywheel (you mentioned). Will take a photo and weight it tomorrow.

This just gets better.

(http://i30.tinypic.com/2zohd92.jpg)



 
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX247 on August 01, 2009, 09:46:37 PM
VMX60 That business card is a treasure in it's self.  :-*
I love this old ephemera stuff- collect a wee tad me self  ;D



Will this fit mine(Sprite) ???
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/VILLIERS-STARMAKER-BARREL-AND-HEAD_W0QQitemZ260452181929QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Motorcycle_Parts?hash=item3ca428e7a9&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177

reply on emails......also they fitted marcell and greeves challenger
(long stroke) barrel to the sprite as well frank
hipkins was the engineer, barrels do come up but
there far and few between the marcell one needs
hard chroming but is already bead blasted.
the marcell barrel would fit the 36A
the starmaker is incompatable with the 36A engine

Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX247 on August 01, 2009, 11:07:38 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&item=310157991335

who keeps bidding against me  ;D  ?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JC on August 02, 2009, 09:22:48 AM
JC,

The research on this thread is unbelievable.


I do believe now that this is Mitch's bike or the one he road as in the box with the headlight is the very extra heavy flywheel (you mentioned). Will take a photo and weight it tomorrow.

This just gets better.

VMX60, thanks for yr encouragement. 

Mitch tho't at first that it was his bike (in the pics) but said his bike didn't have the shocks modified. He then tho't it may have been Roger's MX bike, but Roger said his had the Phantom/Stiletto motor & I'm fairly sure he confirmed it had a down pipe. I wonder if its Graeme Sully's enduro bike or RL's, but Tossa &  others say that RL never rode in the dirt so probably didn't have one of his own. It could well be Mitch's tho, w that extra grab rail on RHS & extra bracket behind LHS footpeg could have been to bolt the 'car to. Any other strange brackets that the 'chair' may have been bolted to?

Either way, I'd say it was one of the "development bikes" ridden by Mitch or Graeme Sully.

I'd say the "hot' pipe was just a quick/cheap fix somewhere along the line, or perhaps a detuning for the sidecar trials. They originally used an SDR-type pipe as far as I can tell which surely would have given better performance for enduro work. There is one pic that sort of shows it, but my scanner aint working so I cant send it to you at present.


MC61 - welcome aboard, & we look forward to yr pics & any other info you can give. Is it a 250 or 400 yr talking about?


Does anybody know the whereabouts of Graeme Sully??
Or John Rudd, the journo/correspondant who wrote some of the TW articles?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: mc 61 on August 02, 2009, 12:31:27 PM
400, was featured VMX issue #7 I think????
Have spoken to owner will email some photo's Monday will post Monday night if I can.
Cheers Mark.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX60 on August 02, 2009, 01:41:37 PM
JC

Have a look at page 7 Alron tank photo. Left hand side under tank , that would be the top sidecar mount. Also on page 8 aircleaner shoot, the bracket can be clearly seen.

This might confirm the bikes history :o



Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JC on August 02, 2009, 03:01:04 PM
400, was featured VMX issue #7 I think????
Have spoken to owner will email some photo's Monday will post Monday night if I can.
Cheers Mark.

So thats Graeme Dustings' one??


JC

Have a look at page 7 Alron tank photo. Left hand side under tank , that would be the top sidecar mount. Also on page 8 aircleaner shoot, the bracket can be clearly seen.

This might confirm the bikes history :o

Thanks VMX60, I'd say its definitely Mitch's bike that once had the 'chair' attached. You did say earlier that it had quite a few extra brackets welded on
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: Hoony on August 02, 2009, 06:48:37 PM
400, was featured VMX issue #7 I think????
Have spoken to owner will email some photo's Monday will post Monday night if I can.
Cheers Mark.

Look forward to see the Pics Mark, i wnat to send them to Shuffle (Grant Dargue) who's dad owned the bike for many years before Macca bought it off him.

i will ask him about the history of it when his dad got it and before. it may be tracable to the first owner?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX247 on August 02, 2009, 09:34:19 PM
Had a good and informative Alron day today at modern MX, :o  very interesting.
OK JC I believe you now  :o   ;D
See you with the Red at Wandering Tossa-my shout.  8)
cheers Alison
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: NSR on August 02, 2009, 09:56:29 PM
I haven't been reading this much, but these pics are from a classic PE in north QLD.
There on the  endurobiketalk.com forum.
Cheers
Noel
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg126/nqjim/090726Malandavintageponyexpress004.jpg) 

(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg126/nqjim/090726Malandavintageponyexpress006.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX60 on August 02, 2009, 10:33:15 PM
JC

Looks like a phantom top end with a up pipe :o
What a nice piece of Aussie motorcycle history
Sure we all need detail photos of that OSSA/ALRON ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: Tossa on August 02, 2009, 10:54:04 PM
I may be loud and obnoctious (if that's how it's spelt!!) sometime Alison.  but just sometimes!! mmm.  Will look forward to seeing you at Wandering.  Christine will provide the other bottle and the cheese.  Could be a long night.  hope you and Steve have a ball in QLD

Isn't that a great find in from QLD of an original ALRON.  great find Noel.

would love to have the old man's (Mitch) bike, wish i'd found it.  Wouldn't have been great to get him to restore it. aaah well maybe next time, great find though

I almost forgot, going to beat the old man up.  i rode passenger on the trials sidecar and at that time it didn't have any grab rail, think the old bugger was trying to get me to loose a couple of fingers in the rear wheel.  Could qualify as a crash test dummy in the Alron Story


Barry
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX247 on August 02, 2009, 11:03:49 PM
I'm glad I changed the thread topic name to Sprite/Alron,its seems to get a few more people posting and finding these Alron's...Thanks NSR3  8)
Cheese and wine -Go Rat Bench Racing  ;D
Looking forward to the search of more RL bikes.  :P
Thanks VMX60 for sharing, hope to catch you at Wandering Mill Farm also.  :)
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: firko on August 02, 2009, 11:41:40 PM
That OSSA Alron from FNQ is a sweet looking unit. Pity he's also been sucked into the '25 built' vortex.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: Tossa on August 02, 2009, 11:50:39 PM
I'm glad I changed the thread topic name to Sprite/Alron,its seems to get a few more people posting and finding these Alron's...Thanks NSR3  8)
Cheese and wine -Go Rat Bench Racing  ;D
Looking forward to the search of more RL bikes.  :P
Thanks VMX60 for sharing, hope to catch you at Wandering Mill Farm also.  :)
cheers

Go Team Tossa!!!!

That OSSA Alron from FNQ is a sweet looking unit. Pity he's also been sucked into the '25 built' vortex.

I really amazed at the number of bikes that are around, wow 25 built that's amazing.  Oops sorry got to go the pigs are coming back to roost!!lol
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JC on August 03, 2009, 08:11:24 AM
Tossa, you facetious wag!!

The info on that Alron/Phantom is taken from one of the magazine reports of the day. Mitch could tell him a thing or two about the so-called "Cr-mo" frame too.

Fancy having to ride passenger on a trials outfit & not getting the glory for it!
(I wondered about RL riding passenger after you said you don't ever recall him riding in the dirt.)


JC

Looks like a phantom top end with a up pipe :o
What a nice piece of Aussie motorcycle history
Sure we all need detail photos of that OSSA/ALRON ;D ;D

Yeh, first things I noticed too VMX60. (The one in the TW 1975 yearbook has downpipe & was available w 3 diff wheelbases (if you read the spec). It also has a cable operated rear brake whereas this one has rod).

This one above apparently has a bing carb so its likely to be Phantom engine, not stiletto that was said to be used earlier. We tracked down the owner w help of Evohusky & I'll ring him at work today. Hopefully I'll be able to arrange some more/better pics.

Just to back-track a moment - VMX60, no doubt yr LHS Al sidecover is cut-away to allow the attach of the sidecover to the bracket under the seat.

I'm glad I changed the thread topic name to Sprite/Alron,its seems to get a few more people posting and finding these Alron's...Thanks NSR3  8)
cheers

Yes, good move Alison. Terrific thread!

Had a good and informative Alron day today at modern MX, :o  very interesting.
OK JC I believe you now  :o   ;D
cheers Alison

Tell us more Alison. What did you find out?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: firko on August 03, 2009, 09:20:53 AM
Quote
I'm glad I changed the thread topic name to Sprite/Alron,its seems to get a few more people posting and finding these Alron's...
Hey Alison, why not add American Eagle to the topic title? They're and equally important part of the yarn.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JC on August 03, 2009, 09:47:07 AM
Might just broaden it a bit too much tho, Mark. Nice to have the focus on Alron for the moment - see what else we can discover.

Am Eagle is perhaps worth a thread in its own right?? (I agree, its very interesting too)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: firko on August 03, 2009, 09:52:11 AM
Disagree wholeheartedly John....they're an equal part of the whole shemozel and it'd confuse the issue with a seperate American Eagle thread. They're the biggest selling member of the family afterall.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JC on August 03, 2009, 10:29:33 AM
Yeh, but... the focus is on finding out the Aussie "real Alron" story for the moment, & A/Eagle info is available elswhere on the net.

Anyway, its up to Alison
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX247 on August 03, 2009, 10:41:58 AM
Give it a couple of months then I'll change the topic name .  8)

Stuff I found out yesterday and then told not to dig too deep as I could get myself into trouble with skulldugaree,shemozel and right offs/law  etc....I'm not putting it on here, because you would all be crying if you knew what went on in the MC industry and what was done with some beautiful bikes in the 70's-do that now and you'd make the 7pm news, not Alron's though.  8)
Anyway that will be the second bottle of red with the Tossa Technical Team.
cheers Alison
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: firko on August 03, 2009, 10:45:39 AM
No it's not John. That's your focus. The focus should be on the overall story and not to get tied up in one corner of it. The Alron story, as fascinating as it is a miniscule ripple in the big picture, of which I was ready to expand on. Let's not get bogged down in Jandakot when there is other equally interesting stories involving the Sprite marque.
 If you Alison and everyone else want to keep it all Alron, so be it, I'll keep my contribution for another day, or another project...no problem.

Quote
Stuff I found out yesterday and then told not to dig too deep as I could get myself into trouble
I doubt there'd be any threats of legal action because for that to happen the whole true story would have to emerge and I doubt that old Rons ego would allow that. To be honest, most of us already know the sordid behind the scenes story so why not pass on the yarns . Sprinkling little bits of "I know something juicy that you don't" is a bit annoying to the others following this great thread with interest. Post the juicy bits, I reckon! :o
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX247 on August 03, 2009, 11:50:02 AM
Quote:
 I have some boxes full of old programs etc at home from every meeting I ever rode, I will try to dig them out and we can have a look at how many Alrons were racing and who owned them etc.


Yep another good spot to look for Sprites,Alron AE and all the odd bikes are in old race programmes.  8)  ;D
cheers

Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: Tossa on August 03, 2009, 03:17:25 PM
keep fighting Firko, though no need to say that to you.  Yep has got bogged down a bit on he Alron saga and agree with you lets keep going about the sprite, eagle alron whatever.

input by everyone has been great and i suppose can't help but graduate towards the Alron as aussie built!!!

I personally have thoruoghly enjoyed the thread, as in fact my father who has keep an eye on it.  It's a great part of history.  Wish i could find a Sprite, but our country cousins seem to have all the links, Damn them.

JC, Ron rode passenger for dad in aussie titles, if being a passenger counts as riding in dirt then ok, but thought passengers in sidecars were mental anyway (That's for steve and Alison).  Other than that might clarify it as being minimal!!

Firko, love your work as i've said to you before and the info I've already passed to you.  Give us some stuff on the eagle would love it.

Alison, you should join the Daily planet, as lois lane!!!

Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JC on August 03, 2009, 03:56:25 PM
Mark. No offense intended. One could counter that your focus is on the bigger saga, but where the focus should be is surely up to Alison who started the thread. Lets not detract from a good thread by arguing over where it should be.

My point was simply that "the focus is on Alron for the moment". I think thats self-evident. Its generated considerable interest & invaluable info. Lets see what comes out about Alrons for a while while the focus is on them, especially since they haven't had any airplay anywhere else on the web (as far as I know). Dilute the focus & it'll soon fade. It'd be nice to let it run its course before its diluted.


Wasn't meaning to sideline Am/Eagle either (I love them too), or remotely suggest that you keep such stuff to yourself. I'd love to hear/read it all - every bit of it, in due course. Just while there's a bit of focus on the Alron, more of the Alron story may come out - & thats invaluable.


For what its worth, if the old addage "what looks right generally is right" is true, I reckon the Sprite/BVM/A-Eagle/Alron (either pre73 frames or later fastback frame) look more "right" than any of the other Brit bikes of the era.  ie they're in proportion, not ergonomically challenged w footpegs too far forward, seats too far back, gaps between tank & seat, raked out front ends, offset motors/footpegs etc. Thats not to say they were the best tho, or even the best looking.  Just that to my eye they look the most "right". Now I've probably opened another can of worms!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: mx250 on August 03, 2009, 04:26:52 PM
  Now I've probably opened another can of worms!
Oi >:(, careful, this worm has teeth............... ;D

(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/OzVMX/15493479-273062-large.jpg)

(Next to the Japs I rate all of them, Greeve, AJ, Cotton, Sprite, as looking like an afterthought, cobbled together, bitza's, something from a 'cottage industry' ::).)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: Canam370 on August 03, 2009, 05:02:07 PM
I'm enjoying this thread but what I'd really like to know is where can you buy a bike stand like the one holding up the Stormer? Its obviously pretty strong too........ :)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: Hoony on August 03, 2009, 05:16:21 PM
CanAm370 have a look see here.

its a Yankee Doodle Dandy site, but someone must bring Mototek in the Land of OZ
http://moto-tek.com/threeinone.html
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: Canam370 on August 03, 2009, 05:48:31 PM
Thanks Hoony. I'll check locally for distributors. OK everyone, you can have your thread back!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: mc 61 on August 03, 2009, 05:52:11 PM
As promised I have photo's of the Alron just have to work out how to post them "stay tuned"
I have spoken with the owner and he informs me that if the disscusion about extra brackets on frame are in reference to his bike,VMX issue #7 then you are not correct.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: mc 61 on August 03, 2009, 05:59:47 PM
Hopefully this works my son did it



(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj184/jackarougi/Alron3.jpg)

(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj184/jackarougi/Alron2.jpg)

(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj184/jackarougi/Alron.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: mx250 on August 03, 2009, 06:15:32 PM
Clever Son ;), great pixies 8). Thanks :).
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JC on August 03, 2009, 07:34:12 PM
MC61 many thanks for pics.

No the discussion about extra brackets is most assuredly not about his bike. Its about a bike/pic that 1st appeared in TW circa 75. The same pic happens to be in VMX #7, but its a 250 Ossa engined bike, not the featured bike which is of course the Sprite (husky-clone) engined 400.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JohnnyO on August 03, 2009, 07:58:01 PM
I love all this stuff about the Alron, their history is very interesting. I remember them when i was a kid and they were advertised as the only Australian made dirt bike on the market.
A few years ago i thought about maybe getting one and restoring it but now that i see how few were actually made i don't think that will happen.
I'm pretty sure i even have a Two Wheels mag test on one somewhere.
Keep up the good work boys and girls.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: mx250 on August 04, 2009, 01:11:10 AM
Mmmmmmm, sparkly, pruddy 8) :)

(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/OzVMX/dd2009_03.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: firko on August 04, 2009, 07:44:42 AM
Quote
Mmmmmmm, sparkly, pruddy
And you may note, absolutely identical except for the tank stickers to the above Alron. As pretty as they are the huge seat kinda spoils the looks.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: Tossa on August 04, 2009, 08:05:08 AM
Quote
Mmmmmmm, sparkly, pruddy
And you may note, absolutely identical except for the tank stickers to the above Alron. As pretty as they are the huge seat kinda spoils the looks.

Took the words right out of my mouth.  They must have stolen the design from RL.

Mark what variances of motors did the eagle have?

Other than Sprite (the original) Alron and Eagle were there any other brands that were spawned from the Sprite?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: mx250 on August 04, 2009, 08:07:00 AM
Quote
Mmmmmmm, sparkly, pruddy
And you may note, absolutely identical except for the tank stickers to the above Alron. As pretty as they are the huge seat kinda spoils the looks.
........except all the alloy bits are polished rather than painted matt/satin black, the frame is nickle plated (NOS or resto bling??) and the Eagle is missing those pretty and distinctive alloy side covers (and air box behind the covers. Mechanically they appear identical.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: mx250 on August 04, 2009, 08:15:36 AM
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj184/jackarougi/Alron2.jpg)(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/OzVMX/dd2009_03.jpg)

Noticed a few other small differences, the upright gap in the fins and the front of the tank - the Alron is bolted on. These differences probably model differences, variations in manufacture for various reasons rather than differences between the Eagle and Alron.

And a slight difference in the seat which is probably a resto issue.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JC on August 04, 2009, 08:25:04 AM
With respect Gents, look a little closer.

The A-E is the early frame w the early barrel, diff seat, no sidecovers (just # plates), diff brake - quite a lot diff from the Alron pictured.

Of course the later Sprite is the same as the 400 Alron - identical except for the badge on the tank, but the one above aint.

However, imho they're handsome beasts (either model) for the era, except as Mark says, for the seats. They look almost suitable for a pillion passenger!

I love all this stuff about the Alron, their history is very interesting. I remember them when i was a kid and they were advertised as the only Australian made dirt bike on the market.

I'm pretty sure i even have a Two Wheels mag test on one somewhere.
Keep up the good work boys and girls.

Johnny, I think you'll find the test is in an old Cycle Australia mag if its the test of the 400. I think it was Brian Clarkson's bike
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: firko on August 04, 2009, 09:43:38 AM
Quote
With respect Gents, look a little closer
me and my big mouth....now that I'm awake, you're absolutely right John. I think the seats may be the same though. Perhaps the A-E should have the elusive cast alloy side covers?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JC on August 04, 2009, 11:01:58 AM
Mark,

The pics I've seen of the early A-Es w the alloy tank & early barrell (360cc I believe) just have # plates like the one above. The cast alloy sidecovers seem to have come along w the bigger disntinctively-cast 400 barrel & the f'glas tank. They had a diff brake pedal then too (under the peg instead of over)

The seats are diff shape which is clear when you see them side-on, but both are unusually long w a bit of a 'mis-fit' look, as you intimated before.

 I just love em all (Sprites & derivatives), tho I'm not sure I would have wanted to race the husky-cloned ones back in the day. By most reports it would have been fraught w too much frustration!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: firko on August 04, 2009, 12:38:08 PM
Tossa....One other that comes to mind is the Belgian BVM which has a story behind it similar to the identical Alron. Here's a paragraph  from a lengthier piece I did for McCook a while ago. The article features a few minor errors as I wrote it at the beginning of our research journey and had made some assumptions that later proved to be a tad off the mark.
http://www.mccookracing.com/articles/firko_greatSpriteScam.htm (http://www.mccookracing.com/articles/firko_greatSpriteScam.htm)
:At the same time in Belgium, businessmen Jan Boonen and Jaques Van Velthoven started producing the BVM, in an attempt to create a homegrown motocross bike in the spiritual home of motocross. Belgium hadn’t produced a serious motocross bike of their own since the legendary F.N. machines of Rene Baeten back in the fifties. The initial plan was to produce sixty to eighty bikes in the first year fitted with a Sprite 405 engine and a British sourced chrome moly frame (starting to sound familiar?) REH hubs, Motoplat ignition and their ‘own designed’ Aluminium tank. Not surprisingly the bike was poorly received in Belgium and production ceased well short of the intended production numbers. The restored bike shown below is on display in bullet proof display case* at the owners home in Lommel, Belgium.

*(One could cruelly speculate that the bullet proof case is an attempt to prevent disgruntled former BVM investors from shooting the crap out of the bike!)

                      (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/bvm%201.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: Tossa on August 04, 2009, 01:57:47 PM
Great Mark, what really gets me from this thread is the fact that basically everybody seems to have taken the sprite and just re badged it and called it something made in their country.  How similar they all are.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: mx250 on August 05, 2009, 02:56:07 PM
Lackey recalls the short-lived ride as a good machine.

He says, “I think I won every race, or my class in every race we entered on the American Eagle.

(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/OzVMX/354021551_ifpMf-L.jpg)(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/OzVMX/347408364_iPTyE-L.jpg)(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/OzVMX/354021546_bsbAT-L.jpg)

" From Ed Youngblood's http://www.motohistory.net

Brad Lackey and the Eagle
(8/13/2004)

Our story about Jack McCormack and American Eagle (Motohistory 7/30/2004) brought back memories for a number of readers, and information about the venture continues to emerge. For example, one of Brad Lackey's early “factory sponsored” rides was aboard an American Eagle motocrosser. Lackey's first sponsored ride had been a dealer-sponsored Sachs with help from the distributor in 1967, then in 1968 American Eagle recruited the up-and-coming star through Bay-area dealer Bill "Biscuits" Verbiscio. AE provided the machines and Verbiscio maintained the program under the auspices of Cycle Town, his dealership.

Lackey recalls the short-lived ride as a good machine. He says, “I think I won every race, or my class in every race we entered on the American Eagle. They were very excited about it and bought full-page ads in Cycle News.” Pictured here is one of those ads, with a reference to “Brad – the brat – Lackey.” (I'll bet Lackey is happy that name did not stick with him through his professional career!) However, the business problems at AE described in our previous Motohistory story brought an end to its affiliation with Lackey after the 1969 season. Lackey rode for a short time on a sponsored Montesa, then moved to CZ, on which he broke onto the national scene in spectacular fashion in the Trans-AMA series in the fall of 1970.

There is an interesting story about Lackey's appearance in the inaugural Trans-AMA connected with important historical events that are described in some detail in Part Four of my History of Motocross currently appearing on the AMA Pro Racing motocross web site. 1970 was a “transition year” for FIM affiliation in the United States, since it was being shifted from MICUS to the AMA. When Lackey applied for his AMA professional license in 1970, it was refused on the basis that he was too young. However, he already held an FIM license which had been issued to him by MICUS to ride an Inter-Am event. So Lackey rode the 1970 Trans-AMA under his MICUS/FIM license. Under the rules agreed to for the transition year, the AMA was obliged to recognize and accept previously issued FIM licenses, so Lackey was allowed to compete. He toured the circuit with fellow CZ rider Sonny DeFeo, demonstrating the talent and determination that made him America 's first motocross world champion in 1982."

http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/5648094_FDSB9#354021551_ifpMf
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JC on August 06, 2009, 10:00:02 AM
As far as I can tell, those early 405 A-Es were actually only 351cc (78.75x72); the same as the 360 4sp Husky. The later 405 Sprite & A-E w the disticntive barrell were actually 399cc (84x72). They never were actually 405cc.

Also the Alron was always badged 400, not 405, tho it was the same motor of course.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX247 on August 10, 2009, 02:23:54 PM
Spoke to a few vmxer's at the Nationals and the more I believe that there was probabley under 50 Alrons made.
cheers S&A WA via coffee shop Maleny Qld
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JC on August 17, 2009, 08:39:28 AM
Tell us more pls - if yr home from the Nats now.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: firko on August 17, 2009, 09:36:54 AM
Quote
Spoke to a few vmxer's at the Nationals and the more I believe that there was probabley under 50 Alrons made
You're right Alison...........waaaaaaay under 50 ;)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JC on August 17, 2009, 09:46:14 AM
Yeh... my thot's too - under fifty or under fifteen!?

Huskyevo has found another 400 in Qld & may have solved the "WA development rider Ron Johnston" bit too. But we're still a long way short of 50.

However, tell us more Alison
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: firko on August 17, 2009, 10:54:51 AM
I spoke to a bloke over the weekend who remembers the Alron with Maico forks and laid down shocks that raced at Amaroo Park around '90/91.
The guy told me that he answered an ad in the Trading Post for a 400 Husky and when he went to the blokes house (in Curl Curl or somewhere similar on Sydneys Northern Beaches area)] he saw the Alron in the process of being pulled apart in the garage. My mate reckons the bloke told him he was breaking the bike up because 'the bastards won't let him race it'. My friend checked out the Husky, decided not to buy it and left. The Alron was never seen again to our knowledge. When I asked if he could remember the address where it was my mate replied that he wasn't even sure of the suburb, let alone what street. All he remembers is that it had an ocean view from the backyard.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: Tossa on August 17, 2009, 12:57:22 PM
Lets see way under 50, yep would even say under 20.  Family consisted of Sid, Ron, Alan and Linda.  Linda married Alan Hayes, who was the supposed welder (that's how they got him in the country, as a required worker) funny how he'd never touched a welder.  Alan Hayes sold me a Yammie VStar at Causeway Yamaha, about 4yrs ago and we had a good chat about the good old days and my dad and the T&E Club.  Sorry to say Alan passed away in bali about a year later
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX247 on August 17, 2009, 06:15:18 PM
"Good lord "sometimes you get a big responce when you post and some times you get none... ;)   ;D
Just general chatting really at events, that there isn't that many out there--I was being very generas in that there maybe around the 50 mark.
After the events/conversations and bikes I've seen/had in Qld in the past 3 weeks I suspect that there are more VMX pre 75 bikes than you and I could ever guess at..those garage Queens are a very real thing.  ;D  Long live pre65/pre75  :-*
Alison via Cairns  8)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: Tossa on August 17, 2009, 06:21:53 PM
":-*
Alison via Cairns  8)

You just helped to stir the thread again and get it firing!!
Great to hear from you both.  You want to check out my property up there and don't forget to go up the hill to kuranda a stunning place.  Yorkies Knob Yatch club for brekkie!!!

See you at Wandering
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JC on August 18, 2009, 08:28:28 AM
Hey, thats my 'neck of the woods' - I'm up on Atherton Tableland. Love to have a chat w you WA VMX guys while yr up, if yr still up here. PM sent
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX247 on August 19, 2009, 01:02:30 PM
Sorry JC have come off the Atherton Tableland and the beautiful Coffee/tea works museum etc,now at Cape Tribulation,after chatting with a rider on a DR 400 whom hadn't riden for 30 years and decided to do the big Cape York trek with 12 other Suzukis- through 80% offroad and deep sand and was feeling his weiry age   :o   :-\ .
Heading back to Cairns and then home tomorrow and can post some pics up off the VMX tour.
cheers Alison and Streven via Daintree National Park.  8)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: EML on August 20, 2009, 10:11:15 AM
Hey Alison, did you get some pics of the BSA 250 at the proserpine concourse, I checked out the oil tank/side panels and thought of your sidecover problem as discussed earlier in this thread. The guy hand built both items and made the tank more slim line and the covers were alloy and had a hand rolled edge that made them look original-ish. I'm sure you would have noticed them.
Can I ask how Steve is after his week of lust in the north???
Wish him luck at Wanderinginging(sounds like an Abo on walk-about)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: Husky500evo on August 20, 2009, 08:54:55 PM
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-4/1252864/09%20Nats%20019.jpg)
This was the BSA 250 at the Proserpine show & shine.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JC on August 21, 2009, 12:09:05 PM
Quote:
 I have some boxes full of old programs etc at home from every meeting I ever rode, I will try to dig them out and we can have a look at how many Alrons were racing and who owned them etc.


Yep another good spot to look for Sprites,Alron AE and all the odd bikes are in old race programmes.  8)  ;D
cheers



Well worth following up on, Alison, when you can.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX247 on August 21, 2009, 01:50:02 PM
Thanks Husky and eml,
Steven spoke to the owner of the BSA and he said he had made them himself.  8)
I have new mud guards coming from Don Newell in Qld for this months (Sept) budget.

JC We will get a near full pic on the Alron history(with red wine thanks Tossa) and old Programmes etc when I get to Wandering Millfarm event on the 29th Aug.
cheers Alison

Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: Tossa on August 21, 2009, 02:34:58 PM
Thanks Husky and eml,
Steven spoke to the owner of the BSA and he said he had made them himself.  8)
I have new mud guards coming from Don Newell in Qld for this months (Sept) budget.

JC We will get a near full pic on the Alron history(with red wine thanks Tossa) and old Programmes etc when I get to Wandering Millfarm event on the 29th Aug.
cheers Alison



God this meet going to cost me a fortune in red wine, you, Christine and Nat Copley, and what will I get out of it, I'll still be the photographers bitch!!lol
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX247 on August 22, 2009, 03:49:52 PM
Tough'n up Tossa
If I can talk my way out of the jaws of Bindi's mate under water.   ;)   ;D
I think you should be able to look after three ladies needing a glass of red wine  :o    ::)     ;D


(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/DSC00146.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX60 on August 22, 2009, 05:12:20 PM
Allison
Make sure you try and get local number 97 maico rider involved in sat nights ALRON red wine tasting function
He was the guy that built ALRON/SUZUKI in house at Mortlocks as a very young apprentice.

JC
Last week had a long chat to the Alron rider as this was a fill in bike while waiting for the 2nd factory Suzuki RH250 model factory bike. The first one was given to Kevin Russell to ride. So his main memory is being piss off having to wait for the second factory bike to ride. He was a fully sponsored Mortlocks rider at the time. The Alron is to him a faded long ago memory. He doesn't have any photos and bike was sold on to a MX racer, he can't remember who.

Will try and make Wandering to catch up. ;D
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX247 on August 22, 2009, 05:26:35 PM
quoteAllison
Make sure you try and get local number 97 maico rider involved in sat nights ALRON red wine tasting function
He was the guy that built ALRON/SUZUKI in house at Mortlocks as a very young apprentice.



awesome stuff, I know who you mean --amazing--I did ask another local fellow who worked at Mortlocks doing his apprenticeship around the same time,but he wasn't in the memories way.
I kick myself for not thinking of this Maico rider  :-\
cheers and thanks heeps
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JC on August 24, 2009, 12:11:08 PM
Be interesting to know what he did to fit a side-port (exhaust) engine into a double-downtube frame. Probably too long ago to remember.

VMX60, I forwarded the pics you posted of yr Alron onto Mitch & he confirmed it definitely is his bike. He was somewhat amazed it has turned up & even more amazed the heavy flywheel was till w it.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: Tossa on August 24, 2009, 04:15:55 PM


VMX60, I forwarded the pics you posted of yr Alron onto Mitch & he confirmed it definitely is his bike. He was somewhat amazed it has turned up & even more amazed the heavy flywheel was till w it.

I think there was almost a tear in his eye!!!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: firko on August 24, 2009, 07:01:13 PM
Husky Pete and I spent a great afternoon at Jonesys place disecting his two 405 Sprite motors and comparing the innards to the 400 Husky Pete had kindly brought along. The first surprise upon pulling the first engine apart was to discover that it was actually a rare Sprite 250 engine. Alan was initially a bit peeved as he'd bought the engine from noted eBay wheeler and dealer 'Mobility Impared Al' as a 405. Eventually Alan realised that he could now build a matching set of American Eagles, A 250 AND 405 so he's a happy lad now.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/ALRON%20271.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/ALRON%20276.jpg)
The Husqvarna (L) and Sprite. Note differences in castings.

The common misconception is that the Sprite engine is a direct ripoff of the Husky but we've found that there are enough notable differences to possibly defy any patent litigation. The Sprite sports a centre port exhaust as opposed to the Huskys side port. The Sprite has bigger transfer ports, a different shaped exhaust port and two boost ports to the Husqvarnas none. The Sprite also appears to have a stronger polished, knife edged rod and nice castings.
The Sprite engine appears to have all of the traits that killed the British industry. The beautiful castings and port design are let down by a less than satisfactory transmission and poor quality control. Stay tuned while we build a proper competitive Sprite using a Husky trans and PVL ignition. Jonesy doesn't have a 250 racer right now so over the next few weeks Husky Pete will build a pair of race Alron replicas (or American Eagles, Al has still to decide). The frame is better and lighter than a Husky and the forks and wheels are as good as you'll get so I reckon this'll be a great project.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: firko on August 24, 2009, 07:06:39 PM
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/ALRON%20326.jpg)
Sprite transmission.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/alton%20husky%20gearbox.jpg)
Husky transmission
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: oldfart on August 24, 2009, 07:26:59 PM
Firko ... dodgy selector, is  that how they came ex-factory ::)    A bit primitive
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: firko on August 24, 2009, 07:59:38 PM
Yep...But bit's not so different to a Husky.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JC on August 24, 2009, 08:21:40 PM
Very interesting Mark.

Can you also get pics of the diffs in transfers & boost ports in due course also pls?

Also, anybody know the whereabouts of Terry Holt (of Rock Oil fame) as he maybe able to help w some useful info too.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: mx250 on August 24, 2009, 08:22:38 PM
Strikingly similar ain't they :-\. The left side cases look like the covers would swap. I take it that you did some measuring and concluded the trans will swap.

IIRC Husky went to sue Sprite but pulled out when striking similarities were point out between the Husky and an earlier Pommy motor - true? untrue? urban myth?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: firko on August 24, 2009, 10:56:13 PM
Quote
I take it that you did some measuring and concluded the trans will swap
We actually fitted the Husky trans to the Sprite cases and it fits like a glove. Not sure of the litigation though Graeme. There were legal threats apparently but I've no record of it going to court. Maybe JC has picked up something on that side of things.
Here's the comparo of the 250 and 405 cylinders. I forgot to photograph the ports John but will do them later for the book. ;)(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/ALRON%20263.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JC on August 25, 2009, 09:49:05 AM
Mark,

Are you sure thats a 250 barrel? The black one looks like the distinctive late 400/405. But the other one loooks to me like its the early 360 barrel (which A'Eagle still called a 405). Both are 10 fin whereas 250 was 8 fin.

Ealy 360/405 had 78.75 bore, late 400/405 had 84 bore, 250 had 69.5 bore

Wrt gearbox,  I remember SuperHunky saying somewhere that while the indiviual gears couldn't be swapped w Husky gears, the whole gearset could
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: HuskyPete on August 25, 2009, 09:55:45 AM
Jonesy vernier said 69.5 bore for the black cylinder
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: firko on August 25, 2009, 10:03:17 AM
Quote
Are you sure thats a 250 barrel
Absolutely positive as Husky Pete has indicated above. 69.5mm standard bore 250 Sprite.
The other barrel is a 405-84mm bore so nothing is as it seems John! ::)
Quote
Wrt gearbox,  I remember SuperHunky saying somewhere that while the indiviual gears couldn't be swapped w Husky gears, the whole gearset could
Exactly, that's what we discovered .......What's Wrt mean John? I'm a bit dumb when it comes to textspeak.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: vandy010 on August 25, 2009, 10:08:21 AM
wrt=
with reguards to...
or
why round tyres?
or
......... it think you get the idea....
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: firko on August 25, 2009, 10:22:20 AM
Thanks Vandy..... gosh darn you young 'uns and your crazy talk  ;D
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JC on August 25, 2009, 11:29:24 AM
so nothing is as it seems John! ::)

Yeh, ain't that the truth here! These things are strange & stranger!!

The black barrel actually appears to be 9 fin, not 10 fin.

Didn't happen to weigh the frame did you Mark/Pete?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: firko on August 25, 2009, 02:50:55 PM
Quote
Didn't happen to weigh the frame did you Mark/Pete?
No....not yet. We've only just begun. The next experiment is to see what's needed to fit the square barrel 400 engine to my early frame where the Kawasaki once lived.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX247 on August 25, 2009, 09:22:59 PM
Does anyone have a tank mould or spare tank for Sale/borrow for a Sprite or American Eagle bike .?
cheers  :)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JC on August 27, 2009, 03:11:14 PM
Mark/Pete

Did you notice if the 250 A-E barrel also had the extra boost ports?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: firko on August 27, 2009, 05:50:00 PM
Not sure John. We weren't all that interested in the ports. We were mainly looking at whether the gearboxes were interchangable.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: Tossa on September 01, 2009, 03:23:04 PM
Had a quick chat with Alison on sunday, I was unable to make the saturday night fiesta, which might just have saved me from a sore head!!lol.  I think i might have caused her romantic notion of the Alron to waiver. i'll be able to tell by her response to this


Barry
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX247 on September 02, 2009, 08:53:18 AM
Had a quick chat with Alison on sunday, I was unable to make the saturday night fiesta, which might just have saved me from a sore head!!lol.  I think i might have caused her romantic notion of the Alron to waiver. i'll be able to tell by her response to this
Barry

oh well ! dreams are made to be broken  ;)    ;D  Apparently the other fellow couldn't weld either, but hey ! it got him through immigrations in the day  8) and it's still continues today  :(

I'll always keep my eyes out for another Alron.
Now back to the Sprite.............
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: GKD on September 04, 2009, 08:31:34 AM
Hello all,
Long time reader, first time "Poster".
I am considering selling my Alron. It's the 400 that was featured in VMX mag #7.
It's been referred to a few times under this topic so I guess anyone interested in buying an Alron will already know of it's existence and probably the history behind it?
I have owned it for at least 15 years. It has not been touched (or run) since the photo shoot for VMX in 2000 so is suffering from a slight layer of dust and the alloy tank, gaurds and side panels have dulled off a little. But overall is still in near perfect condition. There are a few areas that can be improved that I will be happy to discuss with a genuine prospective buyer.
It would take a fair and decent offer to wave it goodbye so please accept, at this stage, I'm "testing the water".
Happy to call if anyone wishes to leave a phone number.
Regards,
Graeme.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX247 on September 04, 2009, 09:11:48 AM
GKD,Graeme
Thanks so much for coming on board and posting.  8)
You have special bike there and I'm sure it will be well cared for when in her new home after the waters have been tested.  ;D
cheers and thanks again for sharing your Alron.
Alison
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX247 on September 04, 2009, 11:16:09 PM
Bit of info in today-..
The TM 400's where fitted with Alron Tanks in a period of time in WA.
Its a long shot, but a Alron head was sold to a Greg or Graham over east? maybe some one might know. :-\
Believe there is another Alron in Narrogin WA.  8)
Don't take me on my word for this info ,but imagine being a young lad 25 years ago ----are you going to remember what you worked on then,  :o  much water has gone under the bridge since ?
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: firko on September 04, 2009, 11:55:12 PM
Quote
The TM 400's where fitted with Alron Tanks in a period of time in WA.
No. There's no way that a company like Suzuki would do such a thing. There is no such thing as an "Alron Tank". Sprite used Lyta brand aluminium aftermarket tanks on their fastback framed bikes, i.e. Alron/American Eagle/BVM. If Lyta tanks were fitted to any TM Suzukis it was done at the dealer level but more likely by owners looking to save a little weight. 

Quote
Its a long shot, but a Alron head was sold to a Greg or Graham over east? maybe some one might know
There is also no such thing as an Alron head, it's a SPRITE head and it isn't really a very rare item. You can pick 'em up for beer money on eBay.  The head sold to Greg or Graeme 40 years ago is probably a Toyota alloy wheel these days.
And the yarns continue!.......There are more bullshit stories about Alrons out there than fact. ;D
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX60 on September 04, 2009, 11:59:36 PM
Another ALRON in NARROGIN are you sure in not the Wandering red wine rumor mill at work ;D
That where my OSSA PHANTOM came from :o
Keep all of us updated PLEASE
Cheers :)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX247 on September 05, 2009, 12:08:00 AM
That's it I've spat my dummy-  :P - I'm not telling you anymore now  ;)   ;D
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: firko on September 05, 2009, 12:28:05 AM
Sorry Alison, didn't intend to offend you personally, I'm just setting the record straight before another yarn turns into "fact". :-*
I'm researching these bikes with a fair bit of depth these days as I've been approached to write a book on the history of Sprite and its various offshoots. As we've uncovered in part here on this thread the whole Sprite saga, including the Alron story is riddled with liars, cheats,.tax avoidance, prostitution, drugs, fraud and even a murder. How could I say no to turning it into a book.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: mx250 on September 05, 2009, 06:26:33 AM
....... including the Alron story is riddled with liars, cheats,.tax avoidance, prostitution, drugs, fraud and even a murder. How could I say no to turning it into a book.
Wow, can I put in for a copy now ;) ;D.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JC on September 05, 2009, 02:10:54 PM
Here's another piece of the pork pie:

 Sprite (& 'son') frames are 531/Cro-mo, right?

Yeh, right!

Mitch had his suspicions back in the day so got the metallurgy checked. Sure 'nuf, frame is apparently mild steel.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: TeeBone on September 05, 2009, 03:31:38 PM
the Alron story is riddled with liars, cheats,.tax avoidance, prostitution, drugs, fraud and even a murder. How could I say no to turning it into a book.
Sounds like the script for Underbelly 4!!!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: Tossa on September 05, 2009, 04:38:16 PM
Rumour is the original Sprite frames were made from water pipe
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: firko on September 05, 2009, 05:03:34 PM
Quote
Mitch had his suspicions so got the metallurgy checked. Sure 'nuf, frame is apparently mild steel.
Interesting, that's what we suspected. the pre fastback frame may be 531 as it feels appreciably lighter than the fastback Alron frame.
                       (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/a%20e%201.jpg)
                       
                       (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/a%20e%202.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX247 on September 05, 2009, 07:49:12 PM
OK refresh again What is the fastback is it the swingarm pivot at the back as this written below

Quote:Every Alron I've seen has the later "fastback" frame. Do you have a photo of an Alron using the early frame? I'd love to add it to the file.
There are two distinct Sprite frames that are distinguished by the placement of the swingarm pivot being either fore or aft of the frame tube and by the twin or single top frame rail design.

cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: firko on September 05, 2009, 10:19:54 PM
The fastback frame has the swingarm pivot behind the bottom frame tube. The American Eagle shown above has the early frame with the swingarm pivot in front of the frame tube.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX247 on September 05, 2009, 10:37:49 PM
Thanks Firko ,so the 400 in VMX mag #7 is a fastback ?
Not too many of those around then !  :P
cheers
Have just reread the last 16 pages ---we could make a movie out of this, also include a trip to Classic Nationals Qld  ;D
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on September 06, 2009, 06:02:59 PM
Guys
Finally got to go over the Alron Ossa
Motor details SDR model
detuned for the trials sidecar two headgasket fitted total of 6mm in gaskets
Piston is std bore
Porting is 37mm ex std enduro /SDR on most models
Motor now turns over after 3 weeks soaking in crc
Has a nice blue spark a the plug
Looks to me this has done very little running if at all after bought from Ron all those years ago
The only item to stop the resto over summer is the lower RH fork leg, undid the bottom pinch bolt oops :(
Need to ID brand of forks or if anyone has a lower leg to sell ??
Are they Sprite copy of a MP forks ?? or other model bikes fitted with the same fork so i can start searching the net/ebay
Cheers




Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: EML on September 06, 2009, 08:26:30 PM
 Firko & co. I seem to remember Bob Johnson had some thing t do with Alron and could probably add some spice to the mix in the way of times , dates, people etc....
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Noel on September 06, 2009, 09:36:37 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/2-Wheels-Magazine-11-73-Laverda-Alron-Yamaha-Motobecane_W0QQitemZ310166089950QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories?hash=item483756f0de&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
Cheers
Noel
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on September 06, 2009, 10:37:53 PM
Thanks heeps Noel for the link,
I have bid on the same mag before and it got to $25-bit much for me, seeing as it could be a repeat article....
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JC on September 07, 2009, 08:06:24 AM
Quote
Mitch had his suspicions so got the metallurgy checked. Sure 'nuf, frame is apparently mild steel.
Interesting, that's what we suspected. the pre fastback frame may be 531 as it feels appreciably lighter than the fastback Alron frame.

Could be, except bike in reply #7 on Pg 1 is the early frame, w exactly the same thing Mitch noticed & had tested & found to be mild steel.

I seem to remember Bob Johnson had some thing t do with Alron and could probably add some spice to the mix in the way of times , dates, people etc....

Yeh, thats what Evohusky told me too. Trying to find a contact for him. If anybody has one could you PM me pls.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on September 07, 2009, 11:02:31 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/2-Wheels-Magazine-11-73-Laverda-Alron-Yamaha-Motobecane_W0QQitemZ310166089950QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories?hash=item483756f0de&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
Cheers
Noel

Love the heading 'Inside the Alron Factory" sorry laughing to much!!lol
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on September 07, 2009, 12:03:49 PM
Quote
Could be, except bike in reply #7 on Pg 1 is the early frame, w the 531 sticker on the swingarm only (as far as I can see)
“Curiouser and curiouser!” cried old Firko (he was so much surprised, that for the moment he quite forgot how to speak good English). (With apoligies to Alice in Wonderland) this story does get even more curious as we get further into it.

 
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Freakshow on September 07, 2009, 12:38:51 PM
I have bid on the same mag before and it got to $25-bit much for me, seeing as it could be a repeat article....
cheers

he he , i seen that mag and a few more on the weekend at the swap meet in willunga, guy was selling em for $1 each, if i knew there was so much interest / money i should have bought them and stuck em on ebay......... $25 WTF  :o

IF i remember ill scan up the Alron 400 article i have in the cycle world  i have in the car, only bought it for the yamaha SC 500 macklin test, and the 73 nsw National results that year( old SA murray williams won the sidecars  :P).  But it does have 4-5 pages on this alron stuff, if it hasnt been covered here already ill scan to Photo bucket and link up by weeks end if you guys are still interested in this stuff.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on September 07, 2009, 01:48:44 PM
Definitely interested Freaky. Pls do. If its the article I think (in Cycle Australia not Cycle World??), I've been chasing it for a while.

Alison , how did you get on w the chap looking up his old programmes to see how many Alrons were entered back in the day?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Freakshow on September 07, 2009, 03:05:01 PM
Cycle somthing, thats all i remember and IIRC its late 73 think it ahs some roady on the cover, but dont quote me.

Its on the list.  hang in there.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on September 07, 2009, 04:45:24 PM
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/a%20e%201.jpg)

Sprite/American Eagle405 Talon-Brand Name Roulette - 1971
American Eagle arrived on the USA motocross scene in 1967 with a big ad budget and small racing team (that included a young Brad Lackey). But, in truth, there was no American Eagle motorcycle factory. The American Eagle was a private-label bike that was built by Sprite Developments in Oldbury, England by Frank Hipkin. Brits could buy the bike as the Sprite 405 Talon, Americans were offered the bike as the American Eagle 405 Talon, Australians knew it as the Alron 405 and Belgiums thought it was the BVM 405. All the bikes were identical, with the exception of the American bikes having “American Eagle” cast into the engine case. Amazingly all the different national distributors tried to pretend that the Sprites were designed in the home countries. It wasn’t until many years later that each country learned the truth about the “other” Sprites.

Most distressing of the “clone engineering” behind the $1195 American Eagle 405 Talon was that the engine itself was a clone. It was an Italian-built copy of a late ‘60s, four-speed, 399cc, Husqvarna engine. Many Husqvarna parts would fit in the Italian engine, but not all. Most American Eagles racers remember the gearbox with particular distaste. Additionally the Talon had a Sprite-built fork that was a direct copy of a Ceriani fork.

Sprite Developments in England showed rapid growth from 1964 to 1974. Owner Frank Hipkin started building lightweight, Reynolds tubing frame kits for Villiers, Triumph Cub, Husqvarna and Maico engines. Amazingly enough, if Hipkin had kept the Sprite motorcycle company small he might have lasted longer. Success killed the Sprite, Talon, Alron and BVM. When Hipkin started exporting Sprites in large numbers the British government closed the tax loopholes that Sprite was using and, following the collapse of the U.S. American Eagle distributor (Galaxy Wholesale in Garden Grove, California), the financial losses were too great to absorb.

Today, Sprite Development still exists, but it builds RVs, caravans and motor homes.

WHAT THEY COST
Although it was quite rare to find the Sprite or it’s stepchilds on EBay, collectors don’t seem to be drawn to them. This un-restored example was purchased in 2006 for $2600. A good core (original but in need of restoration) Husqvarna of the same year would easily go for twice this amount.

MODELS
Eagle 125 – CMXR (125cc Sachs engine), Eagle 250 – GMXR (250cc Husqvarna clone), and the Eagle 405 – TMXR (405cc Husqvarna clone).

WHAT TO LOOK FOR
The Eagles came with several different fuel tanks (2.0gal or 2.5gal) made of either fiberglass or aluminum and either Dunlop Sports knobbies or trials tires. The side panels are aluminum as are the fenders and the front and rear hubs are polished aluminum. If these items are in good shape, the bike will make a beautiful addition to any collection.

PARTS SUPPLY
It is very difficult to find parts for the Sprites. Vintage Husky in San Marcos, CA at 760-744-8052 may be able to help. In Europe, try Frans Munsters at vintage@fmunsters.nl.

 
 

   
     
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on September 07, 2009, 05:00:04 PM
 
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/americaneagle125-02-1974.jpg)(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/americaneagle125-01-1974.jpg)
 
1974 American Eagle 125 MX
This bike is rare because it was expensive and bad. It is beautiful but the attention to detail isn't there. A great job was done in the restoration. This bike was extremely hard to source parts for due to its rarity. But lets face it - if you were serious about racing in 1973 you werent on an American Eagle. The pictures were taken before the decals were applied but it is a very pretty bike. The Zundapp power plant is strong but the bike is clunky and doesnt handle very well. But it is history so here it is to enjoy. http://www.pelicanguanomotorsports.com/1974americaneagle125.html (http://www.pelicanguanomotorsports.com/1974americaneagle125.html)

 
 
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on September 07, 2009, 06:45:30 PM
JC the reply about old race programmes:
Look forward to some good news on your return and I will eventually get to those boxes!!

Quote: Sitting astride the 360,one immediate impression is of an extremely narrow bicycle with controls in exactly the right place.I felt right at home at once on the Sprite.
Jeff Smith,March 1968                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: EML on September 07, 2009, 10:17:37 PM
Alison, try Shoreline or Russell from BMCC for Bobs contacts.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: JC on September 08, 2009, 09:04:08 AM
Just back-tracking a minute

[/quote]
Not sure of the litigation though Graeme. There were legal threats apparently but I've no record of it going to court. Maybe JC has picked up something on that side of things.

The info I had was from americaneaglecollector.com site under history, then hipkins-husky (articles from Cycle Illustrated, I think), but I haven't been able to access the site lately. It said Husky was going to sue, but Hipkins claimed the Husky engine itself was a copy of a british design & he had the papers to prove it. He may have been bluffing of course. I don't know of any Brit design that is like the husky design (which was originally 175 3sp) w its weird shift-gate etc, tho I don't claim to know much about Brit bikes. I've never heard of it going to court.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on September 08, 2009, 10:56:16 AM
Same here John. I've asked our US source, the 'Dongmeister' (don't ask ::)) if he has any information but he's a hard bloke to nail down. I'll remind him.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on September 08, 2009, 11:00:05 AM
Ad for the American Eagle 125. ( I've just noticed that the header now includes American Eagle. Thanks Alison               

                 (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/americaneagle125a.jpg)
                 (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/americaneagle125b.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on September 08, 2009, 11:02:42 AM
American Eagle 360:
                (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/americaneagle360ad.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on September 08, 2009, 11:24:09 AM
Pre '70 American Eagle 250. This bike is a little over restored in that typical American way and has an aftermarket radial head, quite possible an ACK item made for some other brand of bike, possibly a Yamaha.
              (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/American%20Eagle%20250a.bmp.jpg)
              (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/American%20Eagle%20250c.bmp.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on September 08, 2009, 11:24:35 AM
1974 American Eagle 125 MX
This bike is rare because it was expensive and bad.... The Zundapp power plant is strong but the bike is clunky and doesnt handle very well.

Hmmm, I've often wondered about the handling & the negative effect of the very short swingarm & the backbone consisting largely of 2 small tubes to the steering head on the early Sprite frames. Even the fastback frames still have the very short swingarm but are much better designed in the backbone.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on September 08, 2009, 11:42:56 AM
Quote
1974 American Eagle 125 MX
This bike is rare because it was expensive and bad.... The Zundapp power plant is strong but the bike is clunky and doesnt handle very well.
Methinks this bloke is offering an opinion based on a reputation fed by the biased yellow press of the day. Alan and I have spoken at length to a couple of Americans who race American Eagles in vintage motocross today and they are adament that the early frame doesn't feel any different to the later version on the track and that with decent shocks and well set up forks handle very well and turn much better than the Husky of the period. The fact that the basic pre Fastback frame lasted for 6 years almost unchanged and hosted so many different engines and were very popular in the UK must give them some positive spin. Terry Challinor, the great British vintage racer rode works 360 Husky/Sprite in 1966 and said in an interview 20 years later that he had fond memories of the bike. I've also spoken to Brian Clarkson at length and will be doing a full interview with him in the very near future and he swears that handling was the least of the Alrons worries. He reckons they weren't much different to a Husky to ride and definitely felt lighter.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on September 08, 2009, 11:48:48 AM
Pre '70 American Eagle 405
        (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/American%20Eagle%20405b.bmp.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on September 08, 2009, 01:59:26 PM
Nice pics Mark


Methinks this bloke is offering an opinion based on a reputation fed by the biased yellow press of the day.

Sounded to me like he rode it himself & formed his opinion from that. No doubt the early design  w the weird backbone could be improved upon, as it was in the fastback models. Both Roger Weir & Mitch said the Alrons handled well too. 125 engine looks too far forward in the A-E frame, but bigger-bore models look 'right' wrt frame geometry, ergonomics, wt dist  etc.

Have just discovered another 'offspring' - 73 Tryan 400. Will try to post pics shortly & yes, its a rebadged Sprite that was apparently sold by Mitsubishi motors as a Tyran. One previous owner claims the taper on the sprocket didn't match that of the shaft = frequently sheared key. Ah the Brit QC of the day!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on September 08, 2009, 03:20:55 PM
Quote
Have just discovered another 'offspring' - 73 Tyran 400. Will try to post pics shortly & yes, its a rebadged Sprite that was apparently sold by Mitsubishi motors as a Tyran
The Tyran was a model name for the American Eagle as was Talon, Renagade, Cherokee etc. You know how Americans just loved to give models flash names rather than the simpler way of the rest of the world. ;D Mitsubishi Motors took over the distributorship of American Eagle after the McCormick Corporation went belly up.  Alan has a Tyran 125 but it's a rebadged Wassel. They were also marketed in the USA as the Penton Mudlark. The 405 Tyran differed to the American Eagle only in that the American Eagle logo wasn't embossed into the cases, it's more akin to the Alron and BVM........yet another mystery needing further investigation.
                                    (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/American%20Eagle%20Tyran%201.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on September 08, 2009, 03:29:00 PM
Presumably there was a 250 version of the Tyran too??

The 125 Tyran/Wassell got very poor reviews in the press of the day, in both trials & MX versions, but of course its not of the Sprite family
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on September 08, 2009, 08:00:27 PM
Today's effort from the above posts shows once again, one can produce many offspring  ;)   ;D

Got the below in the mail from UK and also the Spares and Machines Cataloge for the Sprite 1966 and 1967.
frames available in 250 30 pd and 500 35pd and the tanks in 1966 came in Red White,Blue or Green 6pd 19 shillings and in 1967 Red Green,off white 6pd 19 shillings - plus a truck load of other parts available,most important Villiers maintenance manual  :P

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/Trailssprite-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on September 09, 2009, 07:16:09 AM
Hope this works. Pics of Tyran 400. Very Spritely! (Like the Alron, these were badged 400s not 405s as you can see)

(http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/garage.php?do=viewattachment&attachmentid=47317)

(http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/garage.php?do=viewattachment&attachmentid=47318)

(http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/garage.php?do=viewattachment&attachmentid=47319)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on September 09, 2009, 09:15:44 AM
I'm intrigued by the full width hubs on the bike in the ad for the 360 A-E at the top of the page. I thought they all had conical REH hubs but it seems there was an earlier hub. Just when I think I'm getting a grip on the progression of these bikes, something else sticks comes along to bugger the plan.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Freakshow on September 09, 2009, 11:29:11 AM
What are the rear hubs and front conicals originally off ?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Freakshow on September 09, 2009, 12:17:46 PM
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/munchboxlive/AlronP1andP2.jpg)

(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/munchboxlive/Alronp1.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Freakshow on September 09, 2009, 12:18:38 PM
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/munchboxlive/AlronP3andP4.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/munchboxlive/Alronpage3.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/munchboxlive/Alronp4.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Freakshow on September 09, 2009, 12:19:20 PM
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/munchboxlive/Alronp5.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on September 09, 2009, 12:45:38 PM
Quote
What are the rear hubs and front conicals originally off ?
Freaky, they're generic REH hubs which were used by a variety of British small manufacturers. They're very similar to Rickman hubs and are well sought after by pre 65 builders as they have a reputation for being equal to the conical Yamaha front hub for stopping power. They're getting a bit overpriced these days though, the hub shown below sold for $212US on eBay with 12 guys chasing it.
Thanks for posting the Alron review, good stuff and full of the wonderful bullshit that Ron Lyon fed to the press. The "news" that they were going to manufacture engines in Australia is a doozy.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/reh%20front%201.jpg)(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/reh%20front.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Freakshow on September 09, 2009, 01:00:04 PM
CAn you use a MX 250 conical and say its a Follow on for a pre 70 ride ?  or is that stretching the concept ?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on September 09, 2009, 01:02:17 PM
Freaky, in a word, no. The conical Yamaha hub didn't come out until 1972.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Freakshow on September 09, 2009, 01:18:14 PM
YEp understand, i was going for the more " based on an ealrier design' theory........
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on September 09, 2009, 01:53:27 PM
You could try an AT1 full width hub which is not only legal for pre 70 (and pre 65 I believe) but supposedly has the same braking area as the conical and stops as well. I haven't tried one myself but will soon be fitting one to my Maico as the rule headmasters have informed me my conical Maico hub isn't Kosher for pre '70.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Freakshow on September 09, 2009, 02:13:41 PM
Ok me needs to track down a couple of these AT1 jobs then (moves over to wanted area)

The lugs line up with the 250 forks right ?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on September 09, 2009, 02:30:52 PM
Quote
The lugs line up with the 250 forks right ?
I presume so...over to Nathan for the definitive answer.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on September 09, 2009, 04:06:11 PM
I'm intrigued by the full width hubs on the bike in the ad for the 360 A-E at the top of the page. I thought they all had conical REH hubs but it seems there was an earlier hub. Just when I think I'm getting a grip on the progression of these bikes, something else sticks comes along to bugger the plan.

I've seen the full-width hub on another Sprite somewhere too - IIRC, the first Sprite w the Villiers engine

Thanks Freaky for the Alron 400 test. The possibility of building their own engine was floated by RL in the early TW articles. Pipe dreams. All part of "trying to create an image" as Mitch put it.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on September 10, 2009, 10:16:55 AM
Here's some of the personal stash of our American Sprite/A-E contact, the 'Dongmeister'. The top two are two of his personal AHRMA race bikes, the orange 125 and blue 400. Note the under construction Tyran.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/American%20Eagle%20donger%202.jpg)

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/american%20eagle%20125%20donger.jpg)

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/american%20eagle%20donger%203.jpg)

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/american%20eagle%20donger%20tyran%201.jpg)

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/american%20eagle%20125%20donger%201.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: mx250 on September 10, 2009, 10:31:34 AM
Irony, don't ya love it - 'in the day' cutting edge World Champion winning machines were crushed and destroyed, and these monuments of mediocrity, blandness and crap survived; are loved and restored ::). 

Irony, don't ya love it :P.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on September 10, 2009, 10:33:44 AM
  American Eagle really tried to move in on the domestic market with bikes ranging from minis right up to the 750 Laverda rebadged as an American Eagle. This little 150 Benelli (Motobi) was marketed as the Eagle 150 in an attempt at getting a foothold into the cool college kid commuter market but it's slick bodywork proved to be a little before its time.             
                 
                          (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/american%20eagle%20renegade.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on September 10, 2009, 11:08:22 AM
They had some more Kaw-engined bikes too (apart from the 250MX), using the early rotary valve singles & twins for trailies & roadies.

That Tyran above looks like it maybe a 250 barrel. Do you know if its 250 or 400 Mark?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on September 10, 2009, 11:12:18 AM
Quote
Irony, don't ya love it - 'in the day' cutting edge World Champion winning machines were crushed and destroyed, and these monuments of mediocrity, blandness and crap survived; are loved and restored .  
Irony, don't ya love it .
Yeah, Graeme it's pretty ironic alright but you're a bit cruel with the bland and crap descriptions! The funny thing about this whole exercise is that Jonesy and I entered into this little journey with out tongues firmly planted in our cheeks. We liked the idea of restoring the most unloved of bikes, perhaps a vintage motocross version of the old "dirty old men need love too''  ;D

The deeper we got into the project however, a number of surprises emerged, the first being that the Sprite didn't really deserve the 'shitbox' reputation history had thrown at them. They are solidly build machines based on cutting edge for the day engineering principles. The chassis, suspension components and cycleparts were better than that of most of the period opposition and even though the Sprite engine had its issues, it had the basis of being a pretty good unit and came so very close to being an exceptional race engine, let down only by typical British sloppiness. The other engines used by the factory, Villiers, Husky, Maico, Kawasaki and OSSA were all proven quality units so when looked at forty years later, they have the potential to make a good vintage racer. Alan Jones is building a matching set of American Eagles, a 250 pre fastback and a fastback 405 Alron clone. I'm assembling parts to build a '67 360 Maico Sprite clone using an early frame that originally housed a Kawasaki engine. I believe Birko is going to fit a Husky engine to his enginless Alron and I don't think it'll be long before Husky Pete gets involved.

The other surprise to emerge is the unbelievable story that's emerging from our research. Without giving away too many story lines, the yarn that emerges is one of a bike that was born to take advantage of a loophole in the British tax system, marketed under a number of different names by a collection of liars, fraudsters, tax cheats, copyright thieves and media tricksters. There's drug dealing, prostitution, a murder and all sorts of scams tied into the yarn that this very forum thread has publicly uncovered for the first time. We've only just started on the research and it's become so intriguing that the magazine piece I was slowly putting together has morphed into a book project. When I discovered that the Frank Hipkin story and it's amazing side tracks have never been comprehensively written about before I couldn't resist the chance to produce a tome on the mans unique vision.
I'd been wanting to write a book for a long time and this great yarn has given me the perfect subject matter. The research needed is formidable but as we've discovered, there are a lot of great amateur detectives digging into this amazing story so any help will be greatly appreciated and referenced in the book.


Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on September 10, 2009, 11:14:50 AM
Quote
That Tyran above looks like it maybe a 250 barrel. Do you know if its 250 or 400 Mark?
It appears to be a 250 John, I'll see if I can find out.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: cyclegod on September 10, 2009, 11:38:54 AM
but it's slick bodywork proved to be a little before its time.             
                 
                          (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/american%20eagle%20renegade.jpg)

That looks AWESOME  ;D now where did I put that spare pit bike engine?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on September 10, 2009, 11:58:09 AM
 From Mark Holloways Swapmeet Roach of the Month page:    http://www.vintagemx.us/roach.htm (http://www.vintagemx.us/roach.htm)
           (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/american%20eagle%20roach.jpg)
Wow! What a find! I rode a 1969 American Eagle 250 as a teenager and wish I had never sold it. Well I found one and man is it a mess.The nickel plated frame is rusty, pipe is broken in half, the forks won't compress. What did I get myself into?
Jim McWhorter
Bakersfield, Ca.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on September 11, 2009, 09:18:19 AM
Much as I love the Kaw-engined bikes, if I had a Sprite frame I'd be investigating putting a 5sp Yam engine or 5Sp Husky bottom end w Sprite top end in it. And using a longer swingarm a la common mod to huskies of the day, which also had a short swingarm.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on September 11, 2009, 10:39:27 AM
Quote
I'm intrigued by the full width hubs on the bike in the ad for the 360 A-E at the top of the page. I thought they all had conical REH hubs but it seems there was an earlier hub. Just when I think I'm getting a grip on the progression of these bikes, something else sticks comes along to bugger the plan.

Quote
I've seen the full-width hub on another Sprite somewhere too - IIRC, the first Sprite w the Villiers engine

The full width hub is most certainly used on those early Sprites like Alisons sweet little bike but I was surprised to find them fitted as late as 1967 when the 'Screaming Eagle 360 ' ad was published. I would have bet the conicals were being used by then but it just goes to show.....They must have switched in 1968.

We're really entering the Anorak big time now!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: matcho mick on September 11, 2009, 09:31:26 PM
i think i have the tank mold for that bike with the deeper sided blue tank,looks identical,(at least the top does,no idea of the underside but),mick
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on September 11, 2009, 10:03:30 PM
Mick.......Someone told me you've got a mold for the Cotton Cobra tank, is that right? I'll fix you up for the flat track tail at Raymond Tce if that's OK mate.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: matcho mick on September 11, 2009, 11:03:42 PM
yes Mark,theres 2 Cobra tanks?,i've got the skinny version mold,also have a fat tank to mold off,(gunna  ;D),no worries with RT for $,(as long as i stay away from the pub,alls good  ::)),cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on September 30, 2009, 03:12:45 PM
HUSKY HOUSE  8)
The new Development and Operations Centre of the motorcycle manufacturer, recently acquired by the BMW Group, was inaugurated today. The structure covers an area of 2,603 m2 and offers a total volume of 25,156 m3 on three floors.

A project realised in less than 15 months

The inaugural ceremony of the new Husqvarna Motorcycles Headquarters was held today, Monday 21st September at Cassinetta di Biandronno (Varese). It has been built to expand the site of the motorcycle manufacturer in via Nino Bixio 8.

Present at the ceremony were Hendrik Von Kuenheim, President of BMW Motorrad, and Rainer Thoma, President and Managing Director of Husqvarna Motorcycles, together with civil and church authorities and the workers themselves.

Over an overall area of 42,320 m2, the new building covers a space of 6,300 m2, with the partial demolition of an old pre-existing warehouse of about 600 m2. The building, covering a space of 2,603 m2, has three floors above ground for a total of 5,800 m2and 25,156 m3.

Fitted with the latest thermal and acoustic insulation in conformity with regulations governing energy saving, it also has a system of solar panels providing hot water for the whole building. Construction work began on 2nd July 2008 and has lasted less than 15 months in all.

The new headquarters completes the layout of the Cassinetta plant

"The new Headquarters and its organisation", declared Rainer Thoma, President and Managing Director of Husqvarna Motorcycles, "have been planned to facilitate the development of the product and to integrate all the production units involved in the creation process of the entire Husqvarna Motorcycles range in an optimal manner.

The structure has been designed to face the foreseen growth in the medium term and to be expanded in the long term. For example, the production capacity of the plant can, with only minor further changes, arrive at a quota of 40,000 motorcycles a year".

On the ground floor (2,603 m) in the centre of the building, we find the engine division and roller test beds.

The surrounding area is dedicated to the prototypes and racing motorcycle production workshop. A section is also reserved for the Training Centre for the engineers comprising the Husqvarna after-sales service.

On the first floor (2,278 m2), next door to each other, there are the Styling Centre (753 m2) and the Development Division (816 m2) organised to assure work can be done with maximum concentration on the product.

The same floor is also home to the Acquisitions Office and Market Research Office.

The proximity of these two functions to the Development Division ensures that the latter is increasingly central to the commercial activities to obtain the best in terms of functionality, quality and costs, in close collaboration with suppliers. The second floor (592 m2), covering only the north part of the building, offers the Management and Administration offices.

Alongside, on the roof of the Development Division, there is an open space dedicated to the presentation of new models.

To the front of the building, facing the road, there are the windows of the Husqvarna Motorcycles showroom (325 m2), easily visible and accessible from the outside.

This space is used to display the company's top models and the finest photographs of the sporting events around the world;
it is destined to become the pulsing heart of the firm and a Mecca for all fans of the Husqvarna marque.
Wonder if Sprite got some front window space  ;)   ;D
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on October 13, 2009, 12:57:54 PM
Alison,

Did you &/or yr friend ever go thro the old programs to see how many Alrons were entered back in the 70s?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on October 13, 2009, 08:33:54 PM
Alison,

Did you &/or yr friend ever go thro the old programs to see how many Alrons were entered back in the 70s?

I've purchased five from ebay and there is nothing in them.  :(
I have emailed the program owner and he is off to Victoria RR till Nov.  :-\
Good thing we are young and have some time up our sleeves. ;D
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: EML on October 15, 2009, 12:57:00 PM
I've looked up my sleeves and there's no time there-so keep moving or you'll run out of it.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: mx250 on October 27, 2009, 06:31:56 AM
Amazing what's 'out there'.............

http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/largephoto.cgi?C=ywEXa7Xjo5TXczk2
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: albrid-3 on October 27, 2009, 07:44:05 AM
those frames are very similar to a AJS Stormer frame
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on November 03, 2009, 12:44:43 PM
Spent some time on the w'end poring over a mint condition unrestored Phantom-engined Alron MX. Engine # is 75 GP Phantom, so this would be one of the very last Alrons built.

At a few metres it looks gorgeous w all the polished alloy & I love the Alron emblem, but up close its very agricultural (as the owner agrees). 

Owner says its pretty awful to ride & its not hard to see why. Reminded me of something written about 2 yrs ago on the forum that I read recently:

"I can remember us going to our practice track,..and Churchy turned up with the Wassell (125) and a Sprite 405.
We rode them both and couldn't believe that bikes that looked so good could be so bad. Even then we noticed that the Sprite was an Alron and visa versa..
"

No doubt with modifications they could be made competitive, but as delivered..... ???
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on November 10, 2009, 06:41:06 PM
I'm still in love  :P

http://www.motocrossactionmag.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=news&mod=News&mid=9A02E3B96F2A415ABC72CB5F516B4C10&tier=3&nid=E6283D9F518C4314A948E39E91F2A85D
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: albrid-3 on November 10, 2009, 08:01:19 PM
is the Alron a copy of the Amerian Eagle
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on November 10, 2009, 08:14:52 PM
Quote
is the Alron a copy of the Amerian Eagle
Go back to page one of this thread and read. It's a good read. In short, the American Eagle/Alron and BVM are rebadged Sprites.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on November 10, 2009, 09:44:09 PM
We are looking for a good photo of an American Eagle Talon 405 right hand sidecover,please..think we have found one 15km from here (home) .
cheers
S&A WA
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on November 10, 2009, 10:56:22 PM
Just a side cover or a complete bike?????????
Quite a score  down south ;D
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on November 10, 2009, 11:15:06 PM
Just a side cover or a complete bike?????????
Quite a score  down south ;D

Engine Case-where the imprint is suppose to be
I know there is a good pic somewhere  :P
ps good to hear from you VMX60
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on November 26, 2009, 10:26:12 PM
Hi group,

Below a message sent to me from the USA regarding riding an American Eagle/Husky 250 clone motor:-


VMX60 

Glad to share what I can remember of my experience with Sprites.  My mx family had seen the impressive AE Team at the infamous Hopetown through the barn '68 or '69 Inter Ams and thinking they were American made bought first the 125 and a year or 2 later the 250. The local dealer let me test ride the 250 Kawi motor version which I remember was impressive, but we ordered the Husky copy, wanting to be like the Euro heroes.

 Though I'd just turned expert, at 13 I was pretty inexperienced so it's hard to give a fair evaluation.  Seemed to handle OK, but thinking about it now has jarred memories of at least 2 nasty crashes where I got banged up pretty bad. One on the 125 was a classic swap and endo on a whooped loamy track, and the other on the 250  was after getting sideways over a jump. We put Curnutts on them both and still they had a nasty habit of going sideways over jumps with a lip.

   I think they turned pretty well. Both Zundapp and Husky copy motors had wretchedly terrible shifting. The 125 had 10 neutrals even having gotten all the mods don by pre FMF Donny Emler who was working for EC Birt's Precision Cycle (this is what led to meeting Emler and working/ porting for FMF for the next 2 decades). The 125 was very slow stock. It was competitive after Emler's extensive porting, a larger Bing carb, and a modified Suzuki factory accessory stamped downpipe.

  My brother and I raced the '69 125 on and off for 3 years, and both bikes seemed fairly reliable. We never even opened up the 250 motor and just made due with missing shifts. It had good bottom end and a wide power band and didn't need too much shifting.

  I remember the brakes were pretty bad with a spongy cable year and non existent front. The very cool stock Tomaselli levers seemed to have a bad leverage ratio and the clutches wee very stiff on both bikes. Both the early style AE seats, and the later added full length "couch" seats as named and joked by Emler, sacked out very quickly.  Forks seemed pretty good and of surprisingly good quality.

 The 125 came with just side number plates, though alloy I think. The 250 came with the beautiful cast side panels, but they were so thick and crude, they must have weighed 5 pounds.

 Raced the 125 in the '71 Barstow to Vegas and actually finished, mid pack. The bike was very beat up with bent rims, crushed down pipe, broken off rear fender, and just remembered the left foot peg broke off with the mount going too.  It was a miserable experience, hot and dusty, and my last desert race ever.

 I did get my first ever expert win on the 125 at a big Nor Cal mud race. We'd just coincidentally put on a new Trelleborg rear and I think I was the only one who could get up the big hills at the Carnagie Trans Am track. I think I won $40. Had a really beautiful photo  on the 125 from Hangtown '71, but seems to have been lost. The AEs do bring back a lot of fond memories both good and bad. 

 Your projects sound fun and interesting, but to be honest I can't imagine a Phantom motor in a Sprite frame. Be careful! and watch for steering head frame cracks and breaking.   

 Still haven't heard from and been approved for the OZ group. If you want post this and the photo for me.  Good talking to you, Robert

Will post a photo later
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on November 27, 2009, 12:41:47 AM
Fantastic report VMX60,that's for sharing,the stories just keep evolving  ;D

Will we catch up with you VMX60 and your stead in the new year ?

Looking through old programs very soon JC  ;)   8)
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on November 27, 2009, 06:57:09 AM
Yeah great yarn. Who's the rider?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on November 27, 2009, 11:36:25 PM
Hi
This is the Photo  of Robert racing  his Eagle 250 husky clone motor in Carlsbad USA about 1971.
Still is a very fast guy racing Ossa Phantom today
Great insight from a rider of a sprite powered anything point of view
 Cheers

(http://i48.tinypic.com/a463xj.jpg)

Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on November 28, 2009, 09:57:02 AM
Yeh, thanks for that VMX60.


Looking through old programs very soon JC  ;)   8)
cheers

That'd be great Alison.


There has been some other movement on the station too:

 We have tracked down & talked to numerous other people who worked for Alron - several mechanics who assembled the Alrons, a saleseman who sold them & still has his records, another rider who rode one for RL in MX circa '74, a chap who was at the auction when Alron was liquidated, & Bob Johnston who was the Alron works/development rider (not Ron Johnstone as reported in the press of the day). Even a REVS report announcing their works rider.

One contact leads to another & another....   Its amazing who's still around & remembers.


And we've located another complete 400 & another 400 rolling chassis (that I wasn't aware of before).
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: mx250 on November 28, 2009, 10:16:17 AM
And we've located another complete 400 & another 400 rolling chassis (that I wasn't aware of before).
All kudos. This is turning into a great saga. I'm looking forward to the VMX article which must surely emerge, and I'm looking forward to the Detective novel and Movie based on the saga ;D. I'm even looking forward to the story behind the story, the story of gathering the evidence ;D.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on November 28, 2009, 11:51:25 AM
..........and there's shitloads more but you'll have to wait until I finish the book. There's simply too much for a magazine article. We've uncovered one of the best untold stories in our sports history, and it's not just the Alron scam. ;D 
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on November 28, 2009, 12:09:28 PM
Firko/JC

Reading Roberts rider report on the Eagle 250
Brought it because it was
Made in American????????
Another untold story maybe book number two in your series
Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: mx250 on November 28, 2009, 12:10:52 PM
..........and there's shitloads more but you'll have to wait until I finish the book. There's simply too much for a magazine article. We've uncovered one of the best untold stories in our sports history, and it's not just the Alron scam. ;D 
Are we talking TV/Movie rights yet? ;D.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on November 28, 2009, 12:42:59 PM
Quote
Another untold story maybe book number two in your series
Cheers
That's the crux of my story. The American part of the yarn is even better than the Alron part and that's gold. The whole Sprite saga gets a run, not just Alron. Who's Robert and how do I get in touch with him?

Quote
Are we talking TV/Movie rights yet? .
All tied up with Robert Downey starring as Brian Clarkson, Sir Anthony Hopkins as Frank Hipkin and Jack Thompson as Dodgy Ronnie Lyon. ;)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: HuskyPete on November 28, 2009, 12:54:28 PM
That doesn’t look like a husky motor to me, it looks like a American eagle with the round ignition cover not the husky type ignition cover, i could be wrong, it also has a radial head


(http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy94/HuskyRacer/a463xj.jpg?t=1259372984)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on November 28, 2009, 01:24:06 PM
Quote
That doesn’t look like a husky motor to me
I was thinking the same thing, the engine looks Sprite to me, that ignition cover is a givaway and I'm pretty sure they aren't interchangable with the Husky item. The radial head looks like it doesn't belong as well. Aftermarket maybe? It sticks out way further than the barrel fins. 
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on November 28, 2009, 01:53:25 PM
He did say it was a husky-clone motor not the real deal Husky.

Yr dead right Mark, the Alron part is just a drop in the ocean - probably a smaller drop than most realised. But an interesting drop nevertheless.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on November 28, 2009, 02:04:42 PM
The Eagle has the copy husky motor was delivered with the radial head fitted from new
Just received a side on Photo of this bike will post later
Firko will PM you with Roberts details
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on November 28, 2009, 02:37:48 PM
Side on of  American/Eagle/Sprite/Husky copy motor fitted with radial head from new

(http://i46.tinypic.com/1dy5jo.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on November 28, 2009, 02:57:17 PM
When we were working on Alans a couple of months ago I could have sworn it had a straight fin head but I'm probably wrong. I know the 405 has a straight fin head so maybe that's where I got confused.

I found out yesterday that my recently acquired freebie American Eagle frame and box of bits has left Long Beach on it's journey to Oz. I've finally unsiezed the Maico 400 squarie destined for it have picked up the wheels and tank so all is well for that little gem happening once the other projects are out of the way.

BTW..Jonesy's looking for a pre 1970 Husky gearbox or bottom end to convert his Sprite so if anyone's got one to sell, PM me. The one currently on eBay has out priced itself.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on November 28, 2009, 03:12:40 PM
I've only seen straight fins on the 250 before too. Might be another variation.

That bike also has alloy rims & diff front hub. Looks like AT1 hub.



Oh, I almost forgot, we also found yet another huckster involved in the Alron saga right at the end.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on November 30, 2009, 10:52:40 AM
Pre '70 American Eagle 250.               (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/American%20Eagle%20250a.bmp.jpg)
              (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/American%20Eagle%20250c.bmp.jpg)


So this bike from pg18 probably has a genuine Sprite/Am-Eagle head
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on November 30, 2009, 12:16:02 PM
I now think that American Eagle 250s came with two heads. Alans most definitely has the straight fin head similar to the 405 and the above head and 'Roberts' race bike have a radial head. The head on the above bike is a dead ringer for the two ACK brand heads I have for Yamaha DT1/RT1s. I haven't got any proof but I wouldn't mind betting that McCormack Motors commissioned ACK or someone else to supply a radial head, possible to raise compression, run cooler or to get a better squish area. If you carefully look at the red bike above you can clearly see the different casting qualities between the head and barrel. This is yet another of the mysteries surrounding these bikes.
Below..Alan Jones 250 American Eagle engine. Compare the casting quality of the standard head to that of the radial and you'll see that the radial seems to have a different origin, it just doesn't look comfortable there, suggesting it's originally made for something else. Note also the different barrel casting.
                      (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/ae250%20jones.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tim754 on November 30, 2009, 12:35:02 PM
Please write the novella Firko  :D This really is a ripper story with lots of twists. Cheers Tim754
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on November 30, 2009, 12:39:20 PM
Here's a shot of California American Eagle racer Dave Duanes 250, complete with radial head. Ironically, Alan bought a new head from Dave and it was the straight version. More investigation needed.
           (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/american%20eagle%20250%20donger.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: mx250 on November 30, 2009, 01:07:09 PM
What did her race, hill climbs? ;D.

You're right about that head, it doesn't really look like it is design with the barrel as a unit. Your guess about an outside supplier, for whatever reasons, seems a 'good bet' ;) :).
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on November 30, 2009, 01:28:52 PM
Quote
What did her race, hill climbs?
Why do you ask? I don't quite understand? ???

 5 minutes later..............I think I get it.....the sprocket??? Yup, it's sure a doozie!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: mx250 on November 30, 2009, 01:44:44 PM
Quote
What did her race, hill climbs?
Why do you ask? I don't quite understand? ???

 5 minutes later..............I think I get it.....the sprocket??? Yup, it's sure a doozie!
Yep, I was referring to the sprockets - the front is as small as the rear is large :o.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on November 30, 2009, 03:30:28 PM
So there are 8-fin 250 barrels & 9-fin 250 barrels, each with & without the scollop down the sides. (Be interesting to know if the porting was diff inside). And 2 diff heads. Radial head sure does look a little 'irregular' on the barrel.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on November 30, 2009, 07:01:38 PM
Here's the ACK heads I have. You can see the close resemblence to the American Eagle item. The head on the engine is on my RT1 engine in the Cheney and the other is going on my DT1 motor.
                        (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/ebay%20115.jpg)
                        (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/ebay%20116.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: jimg1au on November 30, 2009, 07:53:33 PM
MARK
i have read on the weedy site that there was guys casting cz stuff in the usa including heads and inlet manifolds.i think that they were marked jok
cheers
jim
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on December 01, 2009, 09:05:54 AM
Gee Mark, I would have said the heads are quite different. Shape of fins, angle of fins, edge of fins & probably number of fins are all quite different.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on December 01, 2009, 09:38:43 AM
Of course I'm not saying they're exactly the same John. Mine are for Yamahas. I posted the photos to display the casting style by ACK. The cutaway fins on the A-E are easily achieved by grinding but more probably they are a different pattern. While it might not be ACK who manufactured the heads, it most definitely wasn't Sprite. ACK was merely brought up as an example of the type of stuff small manufacturers were doing in the USA. The job at hand is to find out who cast the heads. My tip is ACK but who knows?
I'll let you know when I find out.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on December 01, 2009, 12:48:25 PM
OK. The "dead ringer" comment misled me.  The ACK casting looks to me to be a cut or two above the radial head on the Sprite.

Here's another possible scenerio - the radial head was cast to suit the size of the later Sprite barrels (which look to be larger than the earlier ones) so they look 'irregular' on the earlier barrels. Hipkins had QC issues at his foundry which could account for the perceived diff in quality between the radial heads & the barrels. Diff batches, diff quality.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on December 02, 2009, 03:00:43 PM
My suspicions were wrong. Apparently the radial head is a genuine Sprite article. A bloke who had a bit to do with them back in the day confirmed that the early head ran a tad too hot so the radial was developed to try and overcome that.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on December 12, 2009, 11:12:43 PM
JC, Allison & Firko,

Furthering the research on the Alron story -

Had great help from a long time VMX member who supplied me with the original program from 1974 listing the only printed Alron entry is a 250 entered in the 250 race at state title level from 1970 - 1975. As you can see it is an Alron listing but doesn't show what model bike (in the 250 race). The rider was R. Weir #334 C grade.

There is no other 400 entries in his program collection.

Maybe the 400 raced at Club level events, as no one can remember one at an open event.

Cheers

(http://i48.tinypic.com/faouuu.jpg)

(http://i49.tinypic.com/ndwmm1.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on December 12, 2009, 11:24:21 PM
Wonderful news vmx60.
.#183 eight broke ribs and healing well.Rode Bridgetown Grass track. 8)
#162 still heavily involved with Manji ,20yr daughter is racing now and winning.  :P
#69 Husky man and happy to have his old #69 back after we had it for a few years  :P

A few familiar names there (still riding in the vmxwa club) and also a few from T&E club which is where Tossa/Barrys father was busy on the T&E committee back when.  8)


Some vmx folks are out at the West Australian Symphony with a free concert on the Perth esplanade(foreshore) where they will play the 1812 overture using the Swan bells and 7 Field Regiment (105mm howitzers)..in other words sipping Margaritas under the evening sky with the girls  ;D   :P
cheers S&A WA
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: number8 on December 13, 2009, 08:28:34 AM
JC, Allison & Firko,

Furthering the research on the Alron story -

Had great help from a long time VMX member who supplied me with the original program from 1974 listing the only printed Alron entry is a 250 entered in the 250 race at state title level from 1970 - 1975. As you can see it is an Alron listing but doesn't show what model bike (in the 250 race). The rider was R. Weir #334 C grade.

There is no other 400 entries in his program collection.

Maybe the 400 raced at Club level events, as no one can remember one at an open event.

Cheers

(http://i48.tinypic.com/faouuu.jpg)

(http://i49.tinypic.com/ndwmm1.jpg)

What ever happen with Shane Kirkpatrick i remember him racing in Qld in the late 70's on Suzuki's

#8
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on December 13, 2009, 09:11:13 AM
Many thanks VMX60,

I suspected as much, but thats the sort of conclusive evidence I was looking for.
Have previously spoken w Roger Weir
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on December 13, 2009, 09:19:41 AM
The plot thickens....the only one seen in open competiton over here in NSW was Brian Clarksons 405 so it could be assumed that less than a handful ever made the track in fair dinkum open competition. I saw more Coopers and Wassels on the track back then and they were as rare as shite too. It all backs up the now pretty clear picture that less than a dozen bikes were ever produced. Good one VMX60.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on December 13, 2009, 01:15:40 PM



Some vmx folks are out at the West Australian Symphony with a free concert on the Perth esplanade(foreshore) where they will play the 1812 overture using the Swan bells and 7 Field Regiment (105mm howitzers)..in other words sipping Margaritas under the evening sky with the girls  ;D   :P
cheers S&A WA

One wonders why one bothers to tolerate the riff raff of todays society, whilst trying to enjoy a little bit of culture!!!  I feel besmirched!!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on December 13, 2009, 01:17:04 PM
I remember one 400 Alron racing at northam, state round, I think in 1974
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on December 13, 2009, 01:26:10 PM
Allison

Reading the old 70s programs is like a roll call of the current over 55 Wandering vmx start line no wonder the over 55 class are so quick they never forget how to ride

John
The one thing that still cannot be confirmed, if R.Weir was racing a phantom motor or a SDR fitting with a phantom top end  1974 being the 1st year of the phantom  just unable to believe Alron had complete phantom motors in 7th April 1974 ?

8
Shane is the son of the Husky Aust importer back then race Auto Huskys for years over here A grade MX plus rode enduro later on  On the Auto black tank 420 auto in the MX track Bunbury sand AWESOME

Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on December 13, 2009, 01:46:50 PM
Hey Tossa

Just reading a program
Narrogin Dandaloo 25th march 1973
Event 4 366cc over
Number 89     B. Mitcheson     Husky     T/E

Any idea who was riding the 400 Alron
Cheers :)

 
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on December 13, 2009, 02:31:43 PM
Yes that was the legend himself MR T&E just 'dad' to me!!lol

No i don't know who was riding the 400.  But i know my old man was there and I emntioned the fact.  he might remember
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on December 13, 2009, 03:05:36 PM
I remember one 400 Alron racing at northam, state round, I think in 1974

It may have been Roger Weir as he rode both 250 & 400 Alrons. Bob Johnston had gone back to Qld by then


John
The one thing that still cannot be confirmed, if R.Weir was racing a phantom motor or a SDR fitting with a phantom top end  1974 being the 1st year of the phantom  just unable to believe Alron had complete phantom motors in 7th April 1974 ?


I agree - not a Phantom engine. The guys I spoke to were fairly sure it was an MX engine tho - probably a Stiletto engine. Tho it remains a possibility it was one of SDR-engined "development bikes"

Just re-looking at the programme, since it doesn't list what everybody rode, its not really the conclusive evidence I tho't it was
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on December 13, 2009, 03:16:03 PM

Quote from:

Just re-looking at the programme, since it doesn't list what everybody rode, its not really the conclusive evidence I tho't it was
[/quote

Well it was a manjimup programme and i think there was at that time only one typewriter in the town, and only one person who knew how to operate a gestetner!!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on December 13, 2009, 03:29:43 PM
John
The program posted is the one an only  
Alron entry or rider or bikes of any cc over all those years
Strange that in 17th june 1974 Northam program R/Weir is riding a CZ in the unlimited race no Alrons to be seen in print
 Agree that the 250 was a Enduro SDR made up to race MX maybe with a down pipe etc

Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on December 13, 2009, 03:35:57 PM
I maybe wrong on the date as per the yr, but i am pretty certain there was a 400 at a Northam event.  but then again i have been known to be wrong somwhere in my past. lol!!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on December 13, 2009, 04:04:22 PM
Tossa
Im not claiming your wrong about the dates just trying to confirm in print with the programs if Alron raced where an when
What actually happened we will never know
Will just keep looking
If i could confirm the 250 raced was a phantom that what dads bike would be restored to race next year VMX might end up back to how your dad had race it in SDR specs  ;D
Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on December 13, 2009, 04:16:49 PM
 Didn't mean any disrespect in my reply, sorry.  I understand what your trying to find, it's just so dam hard in that era,  i remember on several occassions what was put in the programme quite often didn't match what was on the track

Dad road his in many events especially enduros(marking out and participating), he also rode it as a trials bike with sidecar (australian titles) and I'm pretty cetrtain as an MX bike at sometime, but will check with him.  Though JC might already have that info!!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on December 13, 2009, 04:20:21 PM
VMX60 the programme for Northam was my father listed as riding, because I'm pretty certain the event i saw the 400 he was also riding.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on December 13, 2009, 04:56:28 PM
Quote
i remember on several occassions what was put in the programme quite often didn't match what was on the track
Slightly off the thread but backing up your subject, we had a pretty handy B grader in our club called Bob Church who worked for Speedway Safety Products, the importers of all sorts of bike gear during the 70s. One thing they did import were Wassell products including their pretty little 125 with a Sachs motor. Bob was hired by his boss to ride the little bike in selected meetings to raise the Wassell profile. Getting a sponsored "works" ride was great for Bob but there was one flaw in the idea. Wassells were basically crap and not even slightly competitive. Bob had a plan however. He'd enter the meeting on his Wassell but would actually race his trick DG equipped Elsinore. The boss was more interested in playing bowls on a Sunday than going to the races so 'Churchy' got away with it for months. On the monday after the meeting he's invariably show his boss the program with Wassell written next to his name and the trophy he'd often win. The ruse went on for months until he was busted when his photo appeared in Revs clearly aboard his Honda but the caption stating that it was a Wassell. The boss eventually got over it when he realised that he was stuck with a shipment of bikes that nobody really wanted bacause they were indeed so bad. He forgave Bob and actually let him keep the bike!
The last I heard, Bob still had his almost unridden Wassell stored in his parents garage concealed under a chenille bed spread.  :D
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on December 13, 2009, 06:16:22 PM
John
The program posted is the one an only  
Alron entry or rider or bikes of any cc over all those years
Strange that in 17th june 1974 Northam program R/Weir is riding a CZ in the unlimited race no Alrons to be seen in print
 Agree that the 250 was a Enduro SDR made up to race MX maybe with a down pipe etc

Cheers


M,

From what I'd heard I didn't expect any/many Alrons to show up on the programmes apart from the shop one(s). Many thanks for chasing it up.

Perhaps by June 17 either Roger (Weir) was sick of the 400 Alron or the Alron broke (again). Either way it looks like he moved on to greener pastures (ie CZ)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on December 13, 2009, 08:03:53 PM
Another interesting day you've had gents  ;D
JC
Maybe you could ask Mr R Weir a few more questions of the events and bikes he rode in the 70/74 era ?
Where is R Weir ? JC
Do we know where that Alron riden at Manji ended up ?


Some vmx folks are out at the West Australian Symphony with a free concert on the Perth esplanade(foreshore) where they will play the 1812 overture using the Swan bells and 7 Field Regiment (105mm howitzers)..in other words sipping Margaritas under the evening sky with the girls  ;D   :P
cheers S&A WA
One wonders why one bothers to tolerate the riff raff of todays society, whilst trying to enjoy a little bit of culture!!!  I feel besmirched!!
Tossa
That besmirched word is not in the dictionary --what happened ? did some mug nick ya Margaritas ?
 
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on December 13, 2009, 11:11:21 PM

[/quote]
One wonders why one bothers to tolerate the riff raff of todays society, whilst trying to enjoy a little bit of culture!!!  I feel besmirched!!
[/quote]
Tossa
That besmirched word is not in the dictionary --what happened ? did some mug nick ya Margaritas ?
 
[/quote]
Definitions of besmirch on the Web:

defame: charge falsely or with malicious intent; attack the good name and reputation of someone; "The journalists have defamed me! ...
smirch: smear so as to make dirty or stained

Yep great research oh margarita thief you!!!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on December 14, 2009, 02:33:53 PM


Dad road his in many events especially enduros(marking out and participating), he also rode it as a trials bike with sidecar (australian titles) and I'm pretty cetrtain as an MX bike at sometime, but will check with him.  Though JC might already have that info!!

Yes, Mitch rode his 250 Alron (SDR engined) mostly in enduros but occasionally in MX too. He previously rode an Ossa Pioneer & a 400 Husky 4sp. He said he never rode a 400 Alron in competition.

Unfortunately last time I tried to ring Roger his ph had been disconnected & I never had his mobile #

Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on December 15, 2009, 10:53:49 AM
I've been doing a little research and just found that old Frank Hipkin may have been a bit like Ron Lyon when describing his products. In American Eagle literature the frames are described as being made of  Reynold 531 tubing. I had my doubts about that and after digging around for a while found the following quote from Frank himself.

 "All the motocross frames are made from 1.5mm, 1" diamter ERW tube, I was advised  by a top frame builder  not to use 531 only if you are silver soldering, It is not strong enough for off-road use. All sprites frames were sif brone welded"

Erw is basically just common old mild steel tubing perhaps with a slightly higher nickel content. That puts end to any speculation about Alrons being chrome/moly.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on December 15, 2009, 11:24:28 AM
I've been doing a little research and just found that old Frank Hipkin may have been a bit like Ron Lyon when describing his products. In American Eagle literature the frames are described as being made of  Reynold 531 tubing. I had my doubts about that and after digging around for a while found the following quote from Frank himself.

 "All the motocross frames are made from 1.5mm, 1" diamter ERW tube, I was advised  by a top frame builder  not to use 531 only if you are silver soldering, It is not strong enough for off-road use. All sprites frames were sif brone welded"

Erw is basically just common old mild steel tubing perhaps with a slightly higher nickel content. That puts end to any speculation about Alrons being chrome/moly.

if I'm correct my old man reckons the only part of the Alron that was either chrome moly or reynolds (can't remember which) was the swing arms and which were stamped.  JC can confirm which it was
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on December 15, 2009, 04:35:57 PM
Yep, dead right (that was discussed earlier on this thread)

Mark, any indication of the year/date of that Hipkin quote?

Alison, Roger was up Glenfield way last I spoke to him. He still had family in Perth but I have no idea which Weir & there's lots listed.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: albrid-3 on December 16, 2009, 04:52:00 PM
where these Alron, American Eagles, any good in there dayof racing.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on December 17, 2009, 09:27:11 AM
Dave, it depends who you listen to.

They never won anything major, which probably says something
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on December 17, 2009, 09:48:44 AM
Dave. Sprite was very successful during the late 60s with a lot of good wins in the UK with riders of the calibre of Terry Chalinor, Terry Ledbitter and Vic Eastwood racing them. Usually using Villiers, Husky and Maico engines. They won bugger all to my knowledge in American Eagle and Alron guise, mainly because they just plain weren't very bloody good. By 1970 they were obsolete and poorly made, typical of just about everything British by then.

John, the Hipkin quote comes from a clipping from 1969 Jonesy produced from somewhere. I missed a follow up sentence to the " All the motocross frames are made from 1.5mm, 1" diamter ERW tube" quote. Frank notes that " late 1968 we changed over to mainly mig welding" which is fairly obvious on the fastback frames I've seen. My and Alans pre fastbacks are both brazed so going by Franks statement, they must have been made prior to '68.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: albrid-3 on December 17, 2009, 09:46:42 PM
its a shame, they are a very nice looking bike.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on December 27, 2009, 02:03:20 PM
Hi,

Just received this from Robert, USA, another Kawasaki Eagle. A good reference for someone restoring one in Australia.

 "Merry Christmas.

 Just got around to downloading pics from a spring 09 race at Tomahawk Raceway, West Virginia. Never saw the bike in action, but it was in pretty good unrestored shape. The owner got it for next to nothing and and had a growing enthusiasm for Sprites, though he seemed to be a casual non serious racer. 

 Happy New Year, Robert"

(http://i45.tinypic.com/2pr5h0m.jpg)

(http://i49.tinypic.com/x1nmeb.jpg)



Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on December 27, 2009, 03:20:03 PM
VMX60 and Robert in USA ,much appreciated and good to see it still flowing  ;D

Some nice city fella sent us a pic from Husky site of the Talon right hand side which was discussed on page 21 of this thread.
Its exactly what is in the shed 15 km form here.. :P
Thanks for the right side pic Mr D  ;D
cheers

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/resto30_2.jpg)




Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on December 27, 2009, 03:42:58 PM
Hey Allison
The variety of bike found over here in the west is amazing where a long way from anywhere but the bikes keep being found
Following up on a another roller frame Alron something at present

Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: albrid-3 on December 27, 2009, 09:31:27 PM
Looks like an F21m motor.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on December 27, 2009, 11:20:15 PM
Dot
Wonder if the motor is a true Kawa mx model or a kitted trail bike power plant as with the Alron/ossa most where std SDR motors across the range
Kawasaki early MX bikes are rare so this could another Sprite MX model powered by a trail bike motor
Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on December 27, 2009, 11:27:28 PM
American Eagle used the genuine F212M Kawasaki engine for their early 250s and later used the Sprite Husky clone 250.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on December 27, 2009, 11:39:54 PM
Firko
Does that mean the F21m motors were fitted in the UK or by the USA Eagle importer
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on December 28, 2009, 07:02:03 AM
Quote
Does that mean the F21m motors were fitted in the UK or by the USA Eagle importer
Don't know but it's a good question. I'll try and find out.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on December 28, 2009, 07:34:39 AM
Quote
"Just got around to downloading pics from a spring 09 race at Tomahawk Raceway, West Virginia. Never saw the bike in action, but it was in pretty good unrestored shape. The owner got it for next to nothing and and had a growing enthusiasm for Sprites, though he seemed to be a casual non serious racer. 
Happy New Year, Robert"
I wonder if the guy's really a casual non serious racer when you look ast his other bikes, a pretty well set up XL Honda and a super rare '78 CZ 125 Typ511. He may not be serious but he certainly dares to be different.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: albrid-3 on December 28, 2009, 08:48:05 AM
vmx60, you may be right about the Kawasaki motor.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: vmxken on December 28, 2009, 09:03:30 AM
Seeing as I own an AE 'Geronimo' I suppose it's about time I joined in!  Magazine tests I have ('Cycle' August 1969 and 'Cycle Guide' July 1970) both clearly state that the rolling chassis was imported from Sprite and the F21m engine came direct from Japan.  They were assembled in the USA, or indeed, you could buy the bike in 'kit form' (in other words just how it reached the USA anyway) and assemble it yourself.

The F21m engine was delivered stock except for the outer cases and the cylinder and head, which were all painted black - on the Kawasaki version the cylinder/head were unpainted and the outer cases were painted silver.  Also, the exhaust port was raised 1mm and the bike used an AE pipe, presumably made in the USA.  In both tests, the jetting was less than perfect due to these changes and as AE had not done enough homework.

Regards

Ken
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on December 28, 2009, 10:01:27 AM
Nice bike. Thanks VMX60. My favourite A-E

The F21M engine was based on the F2 175 trail bike engine, stretched w larger bore & stroke to 238cc. Gearbox & clutch were said to be interchangeable except the F21M clutch had an extra plate. G'box ratios are rather wide for a racer.

F4 250 trailbike engine then came from F21M engine. F4 has milder rotary valve, but I'm not sure if the barrell or head were any diff. I know Mark Rosenberg, somewhat of a guru on these early Kaw engines, indicated the F21M engine is very close to F4.

F21M/F4 had very small carb - 26 or 28mm. Very limited space in there. Bigger Miks just didn't fit but apparently a 32mm Amal was small enough to fit.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on December 28, 2009, 10:26:59 AM
Quote: Contracts where won via McCormack International USA.
Few 405 Sprite were sold in UK and I know of no surviving spares.
Hipkin did a fair bit of traveling to set up exports ,Belguium, USA and Aust..Not for the Kawa,but just in general.
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on December 28, 2009, 10:31:34 AM
American Eagle sent a couple of engines to Sprite in the UK where the engine mounts were jigged and welded in before nickel plating and then exported in kit form, as Ken indicated. The engines were sent to the American Eagle factory direct from Japan. Apparently they had a surplus of F21 engines after the model failed to excite the American market and wished to get rid of them before the F81M was released. The number of American Eagle Geronimos is tied directly into the number of engines Kawasaki had left on the shelf. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any record of those numbers any more. Perhaps there is a record hidden away in some dusty corner of Kawasaki in Japan but I don't like our chances of finding out. One of the engines sent to the UK was also used by Alf Hagon and ended up in a grass track Hagon. Nothing is known as to what happened to the other engine.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on December 28, 2009, 10:38:04 AM
How did you find that out so fast  ;D  :P ?
Just reading though the pages of info.....Did they ever name a works team in 65 ?....
How many 500cc Triumph motors where used ? 
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on December 28, 2009, 11:06:49 AM
I could tell you Alison but I'd have to kill you straight after. ;D Just lucky finding a Brit contact sitting at his computer.  ;)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on December 28, 2009, 01:43:38 PM
Ken/ Firko
Another photo of the Kawa with a Maico in the background The 125 CZ sure is a rare bike, I owned a 250 model that Ron Gill imported over here in the West. Ken have a few more Kawa photo if required for your reference
Cheers

(http://i45.tinypic.com/11w9h7d.jpg)

Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on December 28, 2009, 05:05:09 PM
Here's a rare one...A Hodaka 125 powered American Eagle 'Fastback'.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/American%20Eagle%20Hodaka.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on December 29, 2009, 09:35:28 AM
Quote
Few 405 Sprite were sold in UK
They sold a lot of Sprites in the UK. The factory supported a 3 rider works team at various times including the below 3 riders and Terry Challinor, Vic Eastwood and Frank Hipkin himself. The wouldn't have supported a team for a bike that "sold very few" in the UK.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/harvey%2Csmith%2Cjordan.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/Sprite%2011.jpg)(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/Sprite%20Maico.jpg)
Terry Challinor aboard the works Maico 360/Sprite in 1968 (111) at the Brian Stonebridge Memorial meeting at Hawkestone and a year later at the same meeting and in the same place on a 405 Sprite (11). He won in 1969.

In recent years Rodger Harvey and Terry Challinor became the top pre 65 racers ib the UK. Harveys now retired but Challinor ,in his 60's is still winning aboard Triumph Metisses against much younger opposition and lighter B44 Cheneys. If you've never heard of Terry Challinor and are interested to see just how good he is, watch this YouTube video of Challinor (Triumph Metisse) versus Tim Manton (Cheney B44) from last year. Manton is half Challinors age but the old fella fights him right to the finish line.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y22DhcIEGIs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y22DhcIEGIs)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on December 29, 2009, 11:18:45 AM
Tha Maico engine sure fills the Sprite engine bay (#111) doesn't it!

They wouldn't have supported a team for a bike that "sold very few" in the UK.

You would normally assume that to be true, but on the other hand, are they turning up on UK ebay, in UK vintage racing, or in the mags? 

The little correspondance thats been in CDB mag seems to indicate there's not much Sprite stuff in UK.
They must have sold a few of the early ones tho before the export markets opened up.

Maybe by the time the 405 came out the poms realized their limitations & avoided them ???
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on December 29, 2009, 11:39:17 AM
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/Terry%20Ch.jpg)
Challinor aboard the Maico/Sprite which he reputedly disliked.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/Brian%20N.jpg)
Brian Nadin on a Sprite Villiers in 1964.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/jordan__ray.jpg)
Works rider Ray Jordon
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/P%20163.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/P%20162.jpg)

Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on December 29, 2009, 07:29:16 PM
Just deleted my post  >:(
Depends which article you read about the 405.Contradict each other.  :-\
Didn't the A Eagle do most of the 405 business. ?? Answer No cause they where up sh..t creek without a paddle...how heart breaking/frustrating and pissed off would Mr Hipkins be  :(
thanks for the works riders photos  :-*
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on December 29, 2009, 08:40:09 PM
great research and photo's Mark, hate to say, but know a few of those names!!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tim754 on January 01, 2010, 11:49:21 AM
Hurry up and do the book on this epic story Firko!!!  :D This really is a great read!!!!! Cheers Happy New Decade ;)   Tim754   or does that start on the 01/01/2011???
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on January 01, 2010, 12:21:56 PM

Quote
Hurry up and do the book on this epic story Firko!!! 
Michaelangelo took 4 years to paint the Sistine Chapel Tim. Great art takes time! ;D Happy NY to you and the family Tim.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tim754 on January 01, 2010, 11:29:01 PM
Found some Hodaka book pressies for you Firko and the other Kevlar members, will off load to you at Broadford. I have a VMX mag poster of a Super Rat autographed by Ray Ryan here too somewhere you can have for the Club room (Shed) too. Cheers
 Took me 26 years to paint the bedroom ceiling ,  well arrrr actually I still haven't...... hate foo ken painting ..
Now back to the Alron Sprite etc etc thingo ;)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on January 12, 2010, 12:27:09 AM
JC/Firko
John have a look at these photos.
Talk about on the piss. In 1972 they would have been drinking long browns!!
Removed the front end and exhaust pipe and first thought the frame was bent. Oh NO, the motor was sure not designed for this frame. 7mm of square 5mm tilted on the side and a very strange height of the front mounts to squeeze it all in.
I wonder if the frame was jigged in the UK or here.
They must have been dreaming to sell this up against the Japs.
Possibly this must have been the very first bike they tried to adapt the motor too.

(http://i46.tinypic.com/5mbd77.jpg)

(http://i47.tinypic.com/2pochnr.jpg)

(http://i48.tinypic.com/j6lsf6.jpg)

Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on January 12, 2010, 12:36:58 AM
this has to be the first mock up, surely.  It's that poorly done
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on January 12, 2010, 12:46:42 AM
I agree how could you sell this as a retail item
Dad might know if the mounts were jigged here if it was the UK they all be the same
The Alron project is underway
Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: mx250 on January 12, 2010, 06:53:14 AM
WTF.

It won't work. The engine tilted also tilts the counter sprocket, twist the chain, derailed. Besides looking crap..
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on January 12, 2010, 07:08:24 AM
I agree with Graeme...No way that's the way it came from the "factory".  You wouldn't be able to ride the bike more than a foot before the chain would come off. Something fishy here.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on January 12, 2010, 09:10:27 PM
Tossa
Sorry to say but Dads bike is as found, removed the motor today all bolts have no tension and are a neat fit no mounts are bent which means this is how it was made at the Alron factory
One thing the chain is a straight line maybe that was the only way to get the chain line was to mount the motor on the piss
Dad rode this bike in Enduro/Mx over a few years so the chain stayed on some how
It definitely left the factory AS IS unsure which factory ALRON Perth or SPRITE uk
Bloody hell maybe the blue 250 was the only bike nice enough to sell Retail
Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: mx250 on January 12, 2010, 09:30:24 PM
Tossa
Sorry to say but Dads bike is as found, removed the motor today all bolts have no tension and are a neat fit no mounts are bent which means this is how it was made at the Alron factory
One thing the chain is a straight line maybe that was the only way to get the chain line was to mount the motor on the piss
Dad rode this bike in Enduro/Mx over a few years so the chain stayed on some how
It definitely left the factory AS IS unsure which factory ALRON Perth or SPRITE uk
Bloody hell maybe the blue 250 was the only bike nice enough to sell Retail
Cheers
:o I find that exceptionally hard to believe, incredulous springs to mind  - there's got to be another explanation. I can't even see a reason to do it this way ???.

If I was the 'sponsored' rider they would have to pay me $1000 a ride Embarrassment Allowance and loss of reputation :-[. Thats worst motorcycling engineering than leading forks mounted 'back to front' :P.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on January 12, 2010, 10:27:28 PM
Graeme
Wish i had some other explanation
After removing the motor and checking  frame mounts which are untouched, pull out a bare set of crankcases fitted like a glove still on the piss but all bolt holes lineup spot on
Unbelievable rough as guts engineering
Just had a look at the qld ossa on page 10 swear the front of the motor  appears to be offset or on the the PISS
Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on January 12, 2010, 10:41:23 PM
With respect to anybodys relatives or friends who may have worked for Alron....If this bike is fair dinkum, it was built buy idiots.
I had a pretty low opinion of the whole Alron concern and this just sends my estimation even further down into the bottom of the shit heap. There is no way that bike should (or could) work.

Having slagged the builders as idiots, I still don't believe that anybody could be that rough and expect to sell bikes to the public.
I suspect there's another explanation that hasn't been considered.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on January 12, 2010, 11:00:17 PM
ok, I spoke to dad, he says that is the way they put the bike together, sprocket to sprocket.  It never gave any problem at all within the drive train, every bike with the Ossa motor was like that out of square

He tells me,the blue bike was the only true Alron, with their own built or remanufactured Sprite frame, so that the motor sat straight etc.

Now what gets me is the number of times we think of putting a motor in a different frame, but doesn't sit straight.  hey guess what it doesn't matter what angle the motor is at as long as the sprockets lineup
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on January 12, 2010, 11:09:31 PM
Firko

The frame goes to blasters next week see whats under the paint
Enlarging the page 10 ossa the LH front frame downtube is very close to the crankcase compared to the larger gap of RH side looks like same offset as my Alron
Plus the LH side of the motor appears to be hanging out of the frame rails
Swear it the same :-\
Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: mx250 on January 12, 2010, 11:17:14 PM
Even allowing for the angle of the dangle and dodgy photo, this one looks right. There doesn't seem to be as much air under the right hand cases.

 (http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/SpriteVilliers006.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on January 12, 2010, 11:20:25 PM
Good spotting on page 10  8)   VMX60. Is this lopsided bike the one that came with the business card.
I'm a bit confused of how many you have ???
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: mx250 on January 12, 2010, 11:20:32 PM
Indeed, the engine mounts don't appear 'add ons' like the one you have.

(http://i47.tinypic.com/2pochnr.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on January 12, 2010, 11:31:49 PM
Graeme

That photo is the only correct frame which was the one and only blue bike built locally

Tossa and Dad
Your a bloody legend i can now rest my case and sleep at night
Thanks for the history on dads bike
 Aillson
Yes same bike as the card only have the one Alron
Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: EML on January 13, 2010, 10:15:59 AM
It is quite common for sidecar motors to be offset but then they don't have a gyroscopic effect do they?
If a solo engine is off to one side it my turn differently left to right if you get my drift. Might be very good for dirt track!!
Back to sidecars, when fitting a Yamaha XS650 into a Wasp made for a Norton twin you have to squash or spread the bottom tubes and the engine will be offset to the right(I think) if the counter shaft is to line up.
The motor in my XTZ750 is also off to the right some what but it handles like a 400kg pig anyway, though it did win a few Dakars I'm told.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on January 13, 2010, 10:49:43 AM
Quote
It is quite common for sidecar motors to be offset
True but I bet they don't have that 5 degree tilt though. ???

If that frame is the one and only in house Aussie made frame, surely they would have jigged off one of the other OSSA powered genuine Sprite fastback frames. If they did, can it be assumed that all of the OSSA Alrons had the same badly aligned engine or did the anonymous Jandakot framemaker get it horribly wrong?

Below: Frank Hipkins own thoughts on the piece of shit.
"The alron fast back sprite frame with a ossa eng,Wot a F-in mess we have never rapped engine plates round frame tubes the foot rests have been cut off and moved back it is a joke, Mark i have been the Aussie forum & the forks & hubs are not REH, They are Sprite made  at Spite Alloys Ltd from 1969 you can tell by the front legs Sprite forks no guard braketts on the out side look at pic,s again"

Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on January 13, 2010, 11:47:50 AM
There was no anonymous framemaker.  From what dad told me the alledged frame maker was the brother in law Allan Hayes, who the family got into the country as a so called "welder"

From what dad said all the Ossa motors were offset, but he never had a problem with his as the drive line was supposedly perfect.  As said in my last thread, he beleives the only one where the re-jigged the frame to fit perfectly was the blue bike, as that was the start of the non exixtent line of Bikes
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on January 13, 2010, 12:58:57 PM
Quote
From what dad said all the Ossa motors were offset, but he never had a problem with his as the drive line was supposedly perfect.
I think I'm missing something here . Your dads bike was a Sprite frame I'm presuming with the mounts welded in locally? I just can't fathom how VMX60s bike operated and how it's taken nearly 37 years for the dodgy engine alignment to be noticed ???. There's no way sprockets and chains would have lasted or even stayed on for long enough to get from A-B without bailing out. Every time the bike would hit a bump under load the chain tend to want to come off. No wonder Alron went bellyup. This is all going to help make my Alron chapter in the book an even better read. ;D

On that subject...Is Ron Lyon still on the planet and if so, does anybody have any clues to his wherabouts and contact details? It's time I got his thoughts on this....the real story, not the bullshit he fed Ray Ryan and the Aussie press and public of the day.
 
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on January 13, 2010, 02:21:56 PM
[quote
On that subject...Is Ron Lyon still on the planet and if so, does anybody have any clues to his wherabouts and contact details? It's time I got his thoughts on this....the real story, not the bullshit he fed Ray Ryan and the Aussie press and public of the day.
 


I think I mentioned this before that I've been told by an old vmxer that Ron Lyon is somewhere in Perth,not in the bike scene anymore and not that easy to track down.

From page 8 aad 9...maybe somethings are left buried
Quote:there are some shady things floating around that neither of us is going to repeat here but just adds to the credibility saga.

Quote;The lives of Ron and Al lyons can only be described as a bit bazaar, and I don't want to express what occurred in this forum as it is a bit shady, JC would know where I'm coming from and I believe that he is still investigating.
cheers Alison
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: EML on January 13, 2010, 02:37:19 PM
Firko you are right of course- a 5 degree tilt is not good but Popeye says he goes 'full' tilt so it's not a problem on the Wasp :D
I seem to recall that Bob Johnson (motor mouth- the comentator) had something to do with the Alrons so you could ask him what he knows.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on January 13, 2010, 03:04:41 PM
Firko, Yes Dads bike was a sprite frame and was offset.  he's says he never had a problem with the chain at all.

How did they get away with it, they never sold a bike.  The only bike built where they modified the frame to fit the Ossa motor properly was the blue "enduro" bike.  The only real Alron

As Alison says the live and times of the Lyon family is a bit bizarre, and couldn't be told on here.  I know JC has spoken with my father several times, and what he knows is a real eye opener.  I can't recall give his contact details to you mark, so if you want them PM me
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on January 13, 2010, 03:47:13 PM
Quote
Firko, Yes Dads bike was a sprite frame and was offset.  he's says he never had a problem with the chain at all
The offset isn't an issue, many bikes have offset engines...it's the tilt that I'm talking about. As long as the rear and front sprockets are parallel ..no problem but a front sprocket running 5-10 degrees skewiff to the rear can't work for long before something gives.  Perhaps the bike did precious little work and was retired because of the problem?? The photos show a bike that looks like it's done some work though. A mystery.

Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on January 13, 2010, 04:00:44 PM
Sorry mark i used the wrong wording, yep everything was at an angle and worked, he says they were all like that, how many few there really was.  I thought the bike that VMX60 was showing the photo's of was my fathers, but then again i could be wrong, so many photo's of so many bikes
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on January 13, 2010, 04:18:30 PM
Tossa
The photo is of Dads bike for sure confirmed by JC via Dads ID
Your right about the chain line looks spot on no sign of any chain damage on the cases at all
Also to know it was a Alron made in Perth
Thanks again Tossa
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: GMC on January 13, 2010, 08:20:10 PM
28 pages, thats too many for me to look back through to see if this has been put up before.
November 73 Australian Motorcycle Rider

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Alron-3B.jpg)

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Alron-2B.jpg)

The caption for this one said...
The Alron is oviously a willing slider and Brian Clarkson artes it one of the best handling machines he has ever ridden.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Alron-1B.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on January 13, 2010, 11:59:25 PM
Brian"Clarko"Clarkson is one of the real characters of Aussie motocross. Note the #1 plate indicating that he was the Aussie 500 champion at the time. He won the Sunraysia Desert Rally on a TM400 (I think) and was one of the original batch of vintage mortocrossers on his Metisses back in the 80s. Nobody has lived life harder than Clarko and unfortunately it's caught up with him. He's not sailing too well these days with a burned out liver and other problems. Vern Grayson rang me just before Christmas to tell me that Brian was sinking fast but he's still hanging in there. A few of us are going up to see him in a couple of weeks. Being one of the toughest blokes I've ever met, I reckon he's got a few laps in him yet.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on January 14, 2010, 01:13:01 AM
Great new info GMC -thanks  :P
Is Brain Clark's ride in the above pics ,the same Alron that Dean Rowe sold at CD4 for 13k..?  8)
Looks alot like the same to me (noting the fastback frame) oh and the CZ front hub  ;D ? plot thickens  ;)
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on January 14, 2010, 07:25:03 AM
Brian Clarksons Alron and the one Dean Rowe sold are two different bikes, I can be pretty sure of that. Brians bike was stolen from his shop in 1974 and never recovered. All Alrons had fastback frames Alison. I'm not sure of the CZ wheel reference though ??? The bike in the photo has the stock Sprite hub.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on January 14, 2010, 10:06:22 AM
All Alrons had fastback frames Alison
.
yep just quoting off the back off the photo I have  ;D  .the CD4 Alron photo is on page one, if anyone wishes to have a gander.  :P

So other than the blue one, there is the CD4 ex Dean Rowe Alron ....2 definite
anymore whole Alrons that we have missed  :P

Whats this front hub please.. ???
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/SpriteVilliers-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on January 14, 2010, 11:20:34 AM
Last count from JC

2 400 restored
2 400 rollers
1 400 missing lots of bits
TOTAL 5

3 250 OSSA complete

The blue bike is a 250 ossa that hasn't been found 

cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on January 14, 2010, 01:23:28 PM
I'm fairly sure there's another 400 in the Illawarra area. Alan Jones bought it in the early 90s and it was an immaculate original bike still on the original tyres. Unfortunately, as we all sometimes do, he needed a quick quid so sold it to a bloke named Gilbert, a drinking mate of former Wollongong vintage racer Phil Barrett. Gilbert had a collection of British 2 stroke stuff (Greeves,DOT,Sprite etc) and was a bit flaky and had a bit of of a drink problem so the last we heard was that the bikes had been sold off or taken to the tip, depending on whichever story you believe. I can't believe that such a nice example would have ended up at the tip so I reckon it's out there somewhere. I saw an Alron tank in immaculate condition at the Bargo swapmeet a few years ago and was told it had been sold to a guy who reckoned he had "two or three" Alrons.
I've mentioned this before but another Alron showed up at an early Amaroo vintage motocross in the late 80s or early 90s. It had been fitted with long travel Husky forks and laid down shocks and we let him race on the day but told him not to bring it back until the suspension was bought back to standard. He chucked a wobbly and never came back. I've been told that that bike may have been broken up, which might explain the Bargo tank.

There's also a story about the Rowe bike that throws a spanner into the works as well. Not having any verification of the story, I'm hesitant to say any more at this stage, but I'm investigating.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on January 14, 2010, 01:28:02 PM
                              (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/sprite%20broch11.jpg)
                              (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/sprite%20broch10.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on January 14, 2010, 03:04:06 PM
Gee, One goes away for a few days & the thread lights up again. Good stuff!

VMX60 has shown the forum what I discovered when I pored over the 250MX model in Nth Qld for a couple of hours - that the 'workmanship' was VERY poor. I could give you many more examples of it. The frames were modified in Oz (to take the Ossa engine), not at the Sprite factory so the blame is all RL's. He just didn't have a clue. In many ways, it seems to me, thats the story of Alron

Its about 99% certain VMX60's bike is Mitch's bike, & almost as certain it was one of the 1st 3 250 Sprite-Alron  "development bikes", possibly the 1st. It is a little different to the 'production' 250 Alrons, which aren't quite as rough as guts, but still very agricultural - so much so that (as I posted before) one can't believe they would sell themselves on the showroom floor, or have sold as many as RL claimed.

The (lack of) workmanship is a serious embarrassment to any self-respecting Aussie - barely even in the "backyard mechanic" category. And its not just the engine mounts, believe me.

It seems to me they had no jig to reconfigure the engine mounts for the Ossa engine, so you can imagine how they turned out. Ea one seems a little diff.

Yes the prod'n bikes had considerable engine offset to the left, just like VMX's bike, but w'out the sideways tilt. I have no doubts that bike could have run for ages w that tilt (which is more like a few degrees, rather than 5-10deg) if the top of the chain run aligned & it had a chain guide on the bottom run, as there's always a fair bit of slop in the chain & sprockets. But that in NO WAY condones it. It's disgraceful! No doubt the wear would have been (considerably) higher than normal too.

The blue bike appears from pics to have been better built, but there are several poor designs on it too.

The Alron's I am currently aware of still in existence are:

3 250 Sprite-Alrons (1 MX, 2 enduros),
2 restored 400's,
1 amost complete 400 (in quite good unrestored condition)
1 incomplete 400 in poor condition
1 400 roller

& 2 other 'possibilities' (400's) that I haven't yet heard confirmed (including the Illawarra one mentioned above).

I am still trying to track down RL so pls be patient. One contact tho't he had died, but I'm not convinced (his wife & brother-in-law have died). Also still trying to identify the "aircraft fitter from Jandacot airport". I believe he did exist.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on January 14, 2010, 03:17:35 PM
Firko

Unreal 29 pages plus JC on going research  we might end up with a true number produced ,still a unique piece of Aussie motorcycle history

Just posted a wanted ad for the lower fork leg , welding might be a option :-\

Couple of photos of true Aussie engineering Chain line photos

(http://i46.tinypic.com/16ks1w8.jpg)

(http://i49.tinypic.com/2nipusj.jpg)

(http://i45.tinypic.com/10r7lo4.jpg)


Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: T250K on January 14, 2010, 03:24:30 PM
 On the wonky frame with engine tilt that VMX60 shows in the photos, what would it look like if a couple of feet of straight bar was laid through the rear axle slots in the swingarm ?     It would be Hell to ride but maybe the swingarm isn't square either  :o
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on January 14, 2010, 03:28:41 PM
JC I believe the aircraft fitter was in fact Alan Hayes, the brother in law, married to Ron's sister.  The family helped get him a visa by claiming he was the welder the company needed to build their frames.  Sadly Allan passed away about 3-4yrs ago.  I had actually caught up with him again in 2004 when i bought a motorbike from him.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on January 14, 2010, 03:42:06 PM
T250k
The frame was set with a spirtlevel on the top rails when the motor offset photos where taken
Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on January 14, 2010, 04:50:50 PM
                                 (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/franks%20405cc.jpg)
                         (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/405cc%20flatraking%20speedway.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on January 14, 2010, 05:58:10 PM
JC I believe the aircraft fitter was in fact Alan Hayes, the brother in law, married to Ron's sister.  The family helped get him a visa by claiming he was the welder the company needed to build their frames. .

Yes, I read that Tossa, but I'm not convinced. I heard it was Ron himself who claimed on his immigration application that he was a welder by trade. Will have to investigate further.

Two insiders seem to remember a fitter from the airport being involved, but I strongly suspect it was only on that blue one-off bike. It seems to me it was built by someone more competent than a backyard mechanic/welder. However, some things on the 'production' 250 Alron-Sprites appear to have been done by unskilled labour, which may have been Alan Hayes (who usually worked in sales & spare parts in the Alron shop) or RL himself.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on January 14, 2010, 11:16:08 PM
 I think the below shots of the Sprite production line is the image Ron Lyon was trying to portray as how the Alron factory actually looked to the Aussie public. In truth, I suspect my own disorganised shed was better equipped and had more bikes under construction! ;D  (and the quality of workmanship is shitloads better) ;D                                 
                                         (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/broch8.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on January 17, 2010, 12:08:11 PM
Mark Holloways Swapmeet Today. Pre fastback frame going for a song. It appears to be unmolested and intact. If I didn't have two already I'd be going for it.
It'd be a good basis for a pre 65 special or a Sprite using a Husky, Villiers, Kawasaki F21M or Maico engine. I wouldn't be fitting an OSSA plant though as they don't seem to fit all that well. ;D.

FOR SALE
Ad # 3146704
 January 16, 2010
    (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/aef.jpg)
 
Small Manufacturer hand crafted English dirt bike frame. Not sure of exact brand (Readers?), Looks like Sprite? Be the only kid on your block to have one. 125-250 2 stroke or small 4 stroke? Classic Legal? Great start to your next project. Cheap @ $100!


   
 Rick Armstrong
Denver, CO
Phone: (720) 987-7394 | Email
Registered Since 1/25/2005 | 27 Posts
 
 
 
Click to Enlarge


 
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on January 17, 2010, 03:27:55 PM
spoke with a bloke today who bought a Zundapp metisse from Alrons, from a saleman called Jim, who moved on to Bike World, which I believed was in Vic Park.  I believe he is still around and might be able to add to the Alron story.  If it rings a bell with anyone
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on January 18, 2010, 03:38:47 PM
Yes I've spoken w that chap Tossa. Can't remember his surname at present, but very nice chap who still has his sales records. Very helpful chap too.

Have also traked down & spoken w (over the w'end) another mechanic who worked for them in the Beaufort St & Newcastle St shops, for 7-8yrs from 74. He built many of the 250 Alrons & has confirmed much of what I've suspected/deduced about the whole Alron story. Can't disclose too much or the proposed VMX article will be an anticlimax. He says Allan Hayes played no part in building the bikes in his time, tho of course he doesn't know what went on before he joined up. But he did allude to some unskilled labour involved before he came on board.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on January 19, 2010, 05:10:35 PM
Alan hayes had nothing to do with it because he was a salesman not a mechanic or welder.  But I do believe to help him get into the country the family told imigration he was to be employed as a welder within the "factory"
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on January 19, 2010, 05:34:27 PM
Alan hayes had nothing to do with it because he was a salesman not a mechanic or welder.  But I do believe to help him get into the country the family told imigration he was to be employed as a welder within the "factory"

I'll second that one  ;D
cheers

ps I got something real special arriving some day soon. And I'm not tell'n till then  ;)  :D   :P
probably about when we hit page 35.  8)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on January 19, 2010, 05:53:19 PM
sprite parts from your rellies in England!!!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on January 19, 2010, 06:03:07 PM
sprite parts from your rellies in England!!!

God dam spoil sport-you owe me two reds now  ;D
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on January 19, 2010, 06:38:58 PM
have no problem with that, worth it to see the smile on your face!!!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on January 19, 2010, 08:13:50 PM
Tossa, did you get the email I sent you?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on January 19, 2010, 10:36:12 PM
I got an email dated 13 jan which I answered was that the one
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on January 19, 2010, 10:51:31 PM
Thanks Tossa....I just found the reply........it was buried in amongst  of a bunch of Viagra and porno spam and I'd accidentally deleted it along with them without reading it. Sorry mate. Thanks for the info, I'll get onto him in the not too distant future.....cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on January 20, 2010, 04:41:44 PM
 ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D    8)  8)   8)
SPRITE ALERT ON .............http://ausvmx.ning.com/
 
;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  8)  8)  8)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on January 22, 2010, 12:31:54 AM
Another Eagle/Kawa still racing
Tom at chehalis in the USA

(http://i46.tinypic.com/j92e8l.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on January 29, 2010, 12:08:12 AM
sprite parts from your rellies in England!!!

5 more sleeps  ;D
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on January 29, 2010, 06:45:12 AM
What parts are coming?....just curious.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on January 29, 2010, 10:17:42 AM
What parts are coming?....just curious.

now the bidding war is over ..White fiberglass tank.  8)
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on January 29, 2010, 11:24:06 AM
 I know it's too late now Alison but I've got a narrow Sprite/AE fibreglass tank I could have sold you to get you out of trouble. I've picked up a couple of them from the USA, one is the tank that was delivered still holding petrol! If ever you need parts for your Sprite, let me know and I'll put you on to a guy in California who's a damn sight cheaper than the Poms. You only had to ask. ;)
                (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/ae125%20tank.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on January 29, 2010, 11:38:01 AM
Sorry Firko ,but I did ask in this forum and also two emails,at the time we where also looking for a mould copy,never mind.The more in our Aussie back yards the better  ;D   ;)  I would like the California contact details though.
I believe the AE is too long for our Sprite 64 frame so have got this one coming.Steven ccopied your above pic at work and I have since looked everyday.and bingo got it(short verstion)I'm sure someone was pushing up the price for the hell of it  :(
Do you think its worth making up moulds and on selling them back to the Brits/USA  ;D   and here in Aussie as we have contacts now to start this rolling.??  We could be rich  :D   :P
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on January 29, 2010, 03:57:00 PM
Maybe it's this one, my other tank, described by AE as the Desert Tank but in reality only a litre bigger than the orange one. The frame you're using is the same as mine so presumably the tanks are the same. I don't recall the request but I wouldn't have had the tanks at the time anyway Alison.
                        (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/american%20eagle%20tank.111.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on January 29, 2010, 04:19:21 PM
With all of the speculation regarding just how many Alrons were built, this excerpt from an email from Frank Hipkin the founder of Sprite puts it in perspective with regard to Sprites total output...."But as far as i know Alron & BVM may be only a had a handful of Sprites, that was after the collapse of A/E USA.". Caonsidering he sold thousands of bikes to the USA, the whole Alron output would seem to be way below a dozen, unless more of the locally made frames were used.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: GKD on February 04, 2010, 03:20:57 PM
Hi all,
Just a note to say I've advertised my Alron 400 in the OZVMX "Bikes for Sale" section.
Any leads to prospective buyers will be appreciated. Please phone 0433 472 363 if you would like to know more.
Regards,
Graeme
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on February 04, 2010, 07:51:24 PM
Hi GKD,
could you please post a link up, as I've dug in and can't find it. 8)
Tha only one I spotted was this one from page 15.
cheers

Hello all,
Long time reader, first time "Poster".
I am considering selling my Alron. It's the 400 that was featured in VMX mag #7.
It's been referred to a few times under this topic so I guess anyone interested in buying an Alron will already know of it's existence and probably the history behind it?
I have owned it for at least 15 years. It has not been touched (or run) since the photo shoot for VMX in 2000 so is suffering from a slight layer of dust and the alloy tank, gaurds and side panels have dulled off a little. But overall is still in near perfect condition. There are a few areas that can be improved that I will be happy to discuss with a genuine prospective buyer.
It would take a fair and decent offer to wave it goodbye so please accept, at this stage, I'm "testing the water".
Happy to call if anyone wishes to leave a phone number.
Regards,
Graeme.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on February 04, 2010, 10:52:33 PM
I thought it was me...I couldn't find it either.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on February 05, 2010, 12:36:30 AM
I am almost sane, I couldn't find it either!!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tim754 on February 05, 2010, 12:41:54 AM
I am almost insane and I couldn't find it either...                           OK I am insa....
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: GKD on February 05, 2010, 08:33:18 AM
Apologies all, I completed the on line form, uploaded a photo and submitted it yesterday around 3.00pm to the "OZVMX Classies" section.  (Access from the Home page)
It seems that the add takes some time to find it's way onto the site? Maybe the photo file is too large or I'm impatient?
VMX247, yes, it's the same bike that's mentioned on page 15 and a mate posted some pictures of it on this forum a month or so before that. (Although I wasn't able to see or open them on this computer for some reason?) Hopefully the add will go live soon.
Regards,
Graeme.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: GKD on February 05, 2010, 11:43:52 AM
Apologies again chaps.
Just read the OZVMX home page where it explains how there will be no further updates or info. loaded onto the site.
(Might explain why my add can't be found!)
I'll investigate the new site to place an add. So.........please just call on 0433 472 363 if you have any interest in the Alron.
I'll advertise it in "Just Bikes" and "Motorcycle Trader" shortly. Price will be around $14,000.
 
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on February 05, 2010, 11:52:26 AM
Cool-in which state of Aussie are you ?
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: GKD on February 05, 2010, 04:13:08 PM
Melbourne. North eastern suburbs.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Pommie Barstad on February 18, 2010, 10:29:35 PM
Spritely

Good afternoon,

I've read the whole lot. Took ages.

I know next to nothing about Motocross and even less about caravans except for riding them and towing them (or is that the other way round?) briefly in the distant past, but I'm a keen, questioning and inquiring researcher (a.k.a. 'nosey').

There's an interesting discussion going on here & I've learnt a lot, but one thing gave me a jolt. On September 7th '09 firko submitted an piece mainly on the American Eagle which stated Today, Sprite Development still exists, but it builds RVs, caravans and motor homes. I've also seen the same claim on The Early Years Of Motocross website (earlyyearsofmx.com) and I don't know if it's altogether correct.

In a later piece (Jan. 14th '10) firko appends two flyers or printer's proofs of magazine ads, which has the maker's address in Halesowen, a relatively modern telephone number format (in 1995 a '1' was added after the initial zero) and names itself as 'Sprite Developments Ltd.', with the plural 's' lacking from both sources mentioned above.

My dad had a Sprite caravan and I remember its logo, which was quite unlike the Sprite logo shown in firko's flyers. I also remember the Caravans International logo, but wasn't aware at the time of any link between this organization and Sprite Caravans.

In his book On Roads (Profile Books, 2009) Joe Moran has this to say:

After the Second World War, caravans developed a counter-reputation for being cheap and flimsy, largely because, in an era of austerity, the manufacturers had to make do with non-restricted materials. The inventor of the classic Sprite caravan, Sam Alper - whose other significant role in history was to found the Little Chef restaurant chain in 1958 - built his first model in 1947 out of wartime salvage, using a Spitfire's undercarriage and a roof made from an old barrage balloon.

The company was started by Sam Alper and his brother Henry (who soon left it) in Stratford, East London. Moran goes on to say that the 1960s Sprite Alpine became the best-selling model of all time, but, despite that

The recession and rising inflation of the 1970s hit caravan sales hard and in 1982 Alper's company, Caravans International, went bust.

Or did it? Now, the history of caravans, in which I'm sure you're not particularly interested, seems about as murky and difficult to sort out as that of small manufacturers of motorcycles and whilst the above story seems a bit gloomy, in its heyday, Sprite took over Eccles, Bluebird and Fairholme caravans, making it the world's largest caravan manufacturer. It was probably at this time that Caravans International was set up as an umbrella company. I found from the Trigano webpage that In 1976, Caravans International was the largest Caravan Manufacturer listed on the London Stock Exchange, also present in Italy with a sales office in Varedo. This Italian link obviously became stronger as Caravans International (or CI) migrated to Italy in the early 1980s. It produced its first motor-caravan in 1985 and such were their success that by 1988 the company, under the ownership of Tuscan spa ceased the production of caravans. Tuscan became Trigano spa, probably in 1996, and is still based in San Gimignano, where I must have driven past them on the way from Florence to Sienna. Pity I didn't know what I need to know now, or I'd have gone to visit them!

So, Caravans International might have been on the rocks in 1982, but as this coincided with the company shipping out to Italy, they certainly disappeared from the UK then.

If that's not confusing enough, Sprite caravans are still produced as a brand of The Swift Group, based in Cottingham, East Yorkshire (near Hull). As well as a Swift range, they produce a Sterling range, one of which is the Stirling Eccles . . . Enough now?

That's the problem with nouns (as opposed to proper nouns), they're words that are difficult to adopt exclusively because they cannot be copyrighted. So here you go:
Sprite: noun: an elf or fairy, often with wings, especially one associated with water; small, human in form, playful, having magical powers.
So, not only are you a bunch of fairies, you're pretty wet as well.

So, back to the beginning: Today, Sprite Development still exists, but it builds RVs, caravans and motor homes. Sprite Developments does not still exist (missed telling you than, didn't I?); Sprite motorcycles were made in Halesowen (near Birmingham); Sprite caravans were made in Stratford, East London and, until 1988 in San Gimignano, Tuscany; Sprite caravans are a model line of caravans made today by The Swift Group in Yorkshire. There are no geographical coincidences and, although there are CI motorhomes and Swift motorhomes, I cannot find any evidence of there ever being a Sprite motorhome.

Sorry chaps and chapesses, but Sprite motorcycles does not live on in some phoenix-like state . . .
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on February 18, 2010, 10:38:31 PM
ok Ive had two white wines... not red's ... ::)
were are VMX60 and VMX247 last posts Pommie bastard  ???
 we where talking about caravan fuel tanks  ???
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Pommie Barstad on February 18, 2010, 11:10:06 PM
Two white whines? That's nothing, I'm just brewing my second mug of English Breakfast.

The posts you're missing are on the other Sprite/Alron/American Eagle forum. Confused yet? I know I am . . .
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on February 18, 2010, 11:25:22 PM
I love English Breakfast --- your welcome in the down under west  :P.....
Time for you to get a bike I think  ;D Bit a British is best  8)
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on February 19, 2010, 08:37:33 PM
ITS ARRIVED..  ;D  Not sure if its off a Monza 250 Trials or All Sprite 360 Scramble,what do you reckon??

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/SpriteVilliers004.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/SpriteVilliers005.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/SpriteVilliers006-1.jpg)

Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on February 26, 2010, 04:12:49 PM
Hi Alison. Sorry to move the thread away from the history of the British caravan industry and English Breakfast tea but your nice tank looks to be identical to the one below. This my friends is the Sprite I'm wanting to replicate. It's Dave Smiths works 360 Sprite/Maico circa 1967.
Dave's pretty obviously a big lump of a lad, note the size of his hands and how far forward the handlebars are set. He makes the bike look like a 125. According to Frank Hipkin Smith was a quiet, gentle big lad but really fast.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/CCF25022010_00000.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on February 26, 2010, 04:42:00 PM
I reckon the tank is diffeent, the cap on Alisons appears further back.  But the eyesight aint as good as it used to be
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: paul on February 26, 2010, 04:42:31 PM
11 ALRON 400

 Listed by Graeme Dusting  Feb/11  Location: AU-Melbourne
 Category: Vintage Bikes Price - AUD 14000.00

Restored approx. 15 years ago. Never used. Featured in VMX Magazine # 7.

Please phone 0433 472 363 for full details.

Send Email
 
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on February 26, 2010, 05:40:22 PM
I reckon the tank is diffeent, the cap on Alisons appears further back.  But the eyesight aint as good as it used to be

yep caps set further back and its also very similar to Terry Challinor's 1968 version with 250Husky,which looks much better than the little Villiers.

1965:Villiers-tank fiberglass red or green.
1966:Starmaker
End of 1967 big row between Frank Hipkin and Husky Importer Brian Leask this engine itself ran backwards.
1967/69:Nickel plated frame fiberglass/alloy tank,frame kiits for Maico and Husqvarna
405cc Sprite Engine with carby separate at 179 pounds
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Pommie Barstad on February 28, 2010, 06:31:02 AM
There's talk here of 'tax avoidance' and 'tax loopholes' regarding Sprite motorcycles, but I think what was going on was a legitimate way of lowering taxation.

In the UK 'Purchase Tax' was introduced in 1940. It was a complicated system with exceptions, differing rates, 'luxury goods' and almost constant governmental tinkering. But if you make things complicated, it leaves lots of room for ducking and diving: a car attracted higher Purchase Tax than a van for instance, but buy a van, cut some holes in the sides, stick in some windows, put a bench seat inside and you got a sort of a car at the cost of a van. Companies soon sprang up to cater for this dodge. Similarly, a heap of parts that could be bolted together to make a car was classed by the tax authorities as 'components' and attracted a negligible rate of Purchase Tax - the reasoning being that these components could be assembled into cars by British labour and exported at a competitive price. Smaller 'kit car' manufacturers latched on to this and the first Lotus car available to the general public was the Lotus Seven - in kit form.

This applied to motorcycles too, a 'bitsa' motor bike would sell at something like 12% - 15% below the cost of an assembled one - well worth getting your hands dirty bolting in the motor and putting the wheels on.

This came to an end in 1973 when the UK introduced VAT - Value Added Tax, an across-the-board tax with few exceptions. Whilst there was general buggering-about with this tax too, one thing that disappeared at a stroke was the lower tax rate for so-called 'components'. Whilst kit cars continued to be sold, often with customers sourcing their own engines, the big tax advantage had gone. So, was 1973 the beginning of the end for Sprite Developments? If so, it wouldn't be 'tax avoidance' or even a 'tax loophole', but the end of a legitimate application of Purchase Tax which had given Sprite a price advantage.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on February 28, 2010, 09:53:38 AM
Interesting.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on March 15, 2010, 11:54:23 PM
Been slow here on the Alron front

So a progress Photo of Alron/ossa

(http://i44.tinypic.com/2v3pqox.jpg)

(http://i44.tinypic.com/fxxnav.jpg)

Half BSF /metric threads pain in the butt to work on

Cheers :-X
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on March 16, 2010, 12:22:51 AM
looking good
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on March 16, 2010, 09:56:16 AM
Very nice, VMX.

Looks like CZ brake pedal, shocks back to more upright position, Bul front brake stay. Are they betor forks?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on March 16, 2010, 12:24:11 PM
JC/ Tossa
Still unable to find Sprite lower fork leg plus they are just over 34mm so instead of boring the trees to 35mm have kept the complete Sprite front end as is.
Replaced top trees with 35mm ossa betor made up shaft using taper bearing. Good pickup on the brake stay bracket lower legs are mk7 ? bultaco
Keep in mind this is a race bike not a full restore at present

Correct CZ brake pedal worked out ok better than 2inch angle iron model ;D
Shocks are still a maybe up or laid down. Then in the photo are road koni :-\ pre 74 means upright no hassle or finger pointing
Missed picking up the New cast foot pegs a rare period part.

Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on March 16, 2010, 12:32:58 PM
I really hope you're going to tidy up the wonky engine placement.  ::)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on March 16, 2010, 01:02:44 PM
Firko
Going to leave the motor as factory WORKS Fitment  will be a on going talking point at VMX meeting this year or sould i say on the PISS  :)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on March 16, 2010, 01:04:07 PM
I really you're going to tidy up the wonky engine placement.  ::)

He'll use the tried and true Alron method, sprocket to sproket, if they are in line don't worry about the rest.  Or is it the old statement "never mind the quality feel the width!!lol"
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: EML on March 16, 2010, 03:18:47 PM
Sounds like a girl I once knew Tossa!!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on March 16, 2010, 10:49:18 PM
Then in the photo are road koni :-\ pre 74 means upright no hassle or finger pointing
Cheers

   ;D  ;D   They learn em well in the west ,your on the money !   :-*
 good stuff keep at it......actually is this going to end up being ""mines better than yours"""" year  ;)  ;D  8)
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on March 17, 2010, 11:59:06 AM
don't you mean "you show me yours and I'll show you mine'!!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on March 18, 2010, 01:23:34 AM
don't you mean "you show me yours and I'll show you mine'!!

Talking of bits, have order a few items and all is going along smoothly..Have to be patient with the mechanic though,I've got competition with our 16 year old MXer son   :-\    ;D
I also don't know why someone created bolts with so much thread  ::)
Hows the book going JC & Firko ?
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on March 19, 2010, 12:07:59 AM
Ok the British sprite owners rule book states you can only compare bikes after 3 muddy laps of Narrogin then they will look same  RIGHT ;)

So you can stop ordering all those billet alloy parts for that Villiers motor ::)

Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on March 22, 2010, 07:18:39 PM
close ,,but not quite   :(  :(

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/RICKMAN-METISSE-MK-3-AL-ALLOY-SIDE-PANELS-MOTO-CROSS_W0QQitemZ270549464602QQihZ017QQcategoryZ36796QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26ps%3D6%26clkid%3D8668702328158670361
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: albrid-3 on March 22, 2010, 07:58:00 PM
Still talking about sprites, anything else interesting on the world seen of American Eagle, how many of these bike are in Australia.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on March 28, 2010, 09:23:07 AM
Any info -much appreciated.  8)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/Talon002.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on March 28, 2010, 10:40:38 AM
Looks like and American Eagle 405 Sprite engine with the gearbox chopped off.
What's the story behind it Alison?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on March 28, 2010, 10:49:09 AM
Quote
Still talking about sprites, anything else interesting on the world seen of American Eagle, how many of these bike are in Australia.
There are 2 complete bikes and one roller to my knowledge Dave. Alan Jones has a 250 fast back and a 405 pre fastback and I have a pre fastback roller that'll eventually get a Maico 360 square barrel engine to replicate the '67 Maico Sprite. I also have another pre fastback frame enroute from the USA that may get my 500 Triumph engine.

Why have you changed your forum name again Dave? Allbrit, Dot, now TLR ???
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: albrid-3 on March 28, 2010, 03:49:22 PM
Just having a change, its like waking up in the morning and trying to figure out what clothes to where.
Mark, They are a nice looking engine.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on March 28, 2010, 07:10:11 PM
Looks like and American Eagle 405 Sprite engine with the gearbox chopped off.
What's the story behind it Alison?

Its comes from another old Trial & Enduro fellow ,who's son has it in his shed.
The son worked with Steven and is also a dedicated T&E member,this being the same club that Tossa's dad is/was involved in.
I'll speak with Tossa more, it will probably tie in with post #343 on this Sprite thread.
......and no you cant buy it,cause he won't hand it over to me  ;)  ;D
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: albrid-3 on March 28, 2010, 08:53:52 PM
It would make a good Go kART ENGINE.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on March 28, 2010, 10:30:06 PM
Quote
Mark, They are a nice looking engine
They are indeed a nice looking motor Dave. The have a very strong similarity to the Husky engine, the main difference being the centre exhaust port as opposed to the Husky's side configuration. For your information the man who designed and produced the Sprite (American Eagle/Alron) engine occasionally drops in on this forum for a look-see. We've been working together on a project that's had to take a small respite while I sorted some other stuff. I'll be getting back into it after Easter.

              
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on April 11, 2010, 07:39:24 PM
Woohoo ;D the ALRON/OSSA 250 lives on today !! it started 3rd kick, runs very nice after 30 years plus laying in the shed

Motor rebuilt
34mm mikuni replaces the old Amal
Copy Phantom down pipe sounds sweet

Still alot to do - should be race ready by the next Narrogin meeting
Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on April 11, 2010, 07:43:56 PM
I was looking for it today, will have to make a run down to Narrogin after night shift
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on April 11, 2010, 07:54:20 PM
yes,,us too- may have to do a run for the maiden Alron flight.
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on April 11, 2010, 08:13:24 PM
Will keep you updated for Narrogin
Tossa bring your riding gear you have to ride Dads bike a few laps
How good will that be after all those years
Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on April 11, 2010, 08:19:09 PM
Bring dad  ;D
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on April 11, 2010, 08:38:03 PM
Good idea
Alron ride day
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on April 11, 2010, 10:29:43 PM
will chat to the old man
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on April 12, 2010, 05:58:52 PM
Spoke to the old man and will be bringing him down on the Sunday
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on April 13, 2010, 08:14:17 AM
Great stuff guys. Remember to take some pics. Significant day - 1st ride & Mitch reunited w an 'old flame' 35yrs later!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on April 13, 2010, 11:35:06 AM
taking the photographer with us
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on April 15, 2010, 10:57:40 PM
Ok you thought the Alron story might have come to an end.  I've just been informed that a brother of one of the VMXWA members has bought an Alron in England.  I'm looking into it!!!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on April 16, 2010, 07:20:03 AM
Ok you thought the Alron story might have come to an end.  I've just been informed that a brother of one of the VMXWA members has bought an Alron in England.  I'm looking into it!!!

My ‘bro in England has just purchased an Alron/Sprite with a Talon motor.
The bike is missing it’s points cover,he believes there may be a Talon motor in Aussie somewhere (he noticed postings on OZVMX)

He's looking for parts  ;D

 
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on April 16, 2010, 07:47:36 AM
Ok you thought the Alron story might have come to an end.  I've just been informed that a brother of one of the VMXWA members has bought an Alron in England.  I'm looking into it!!!

My ‘bro in England has just purchased an Alron/Sprite with a Talon motor.
The bike is missing it’s points cover,he believes there may be a Talon motor in Aussie somewhere (he noticed postings on OZVMX)

He's looking for parts  ;D

Unless your related to a Pom in the club then it's a different bike

 

Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on April 16, 2010, 08:03:40 AM
If it was purchased in UK it wouldn't technically be an Alron, it'd  be a Sprite tho Talon was the model name American Eagle called the 405.

But of course, the Alron 400 was just a rebadged Sprite 405, w the Alron emblem stuck on in WA - nothing more.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on April 16, 2010, 08:11:16 AM
quote from the email I received as we were discussing my father attending on the 25th, but i am going to follow it up today when i get home from work (night shift)

"I am very interested in the Alron, my brother has just bought one in England.can’t wait to see it"

Though i don't know about Alison's though she does say Alron/Sprite!!  and as you say with the Talon Motor!!mmm
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on April 16, 2010, 10:38:25 AM
Quote
The bike is missing it’s points cover,he believes there may be a Talon motor in Aussie somewhere (he noticed postings on OZVMX
Alison...I reckon he'd have more luck finding a points cover in the UK or even better, the USA than here in OZ. I only know of one Talon embossed engine here and it's spoken for! The Talon is just a model name for the American Eagle 405, it's doubtful to the extreme that he'd have an Alron. Get your bro to read the previous 34 pages of posts, where he'll learn that the Sprite/AE/Alron are the same bike! The differences are that the outer cases on the American Eagle/Talon are embossed with the AE or Talon logo. Everythings interchangable though.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on April 16, 2010, 06:27:25 PM
Tossa ,we really must stop quoting our own personal emails it can get confusing,  ;D   though we do only have one mad capped collecting pommy president  ;)  ;D who has a bro in UK..sorry for the confusion. Waiting on photos for the above Talon/AE UK bike.

Thanks Firko he obviously saw the Talon sidecase that  I posted up two pages back and though we still have truck loads of Sprite/Talon 405 /AM bits here in Oz   ;D
I reckon he will be back to read more, as this it the most pro site for the Sprite  ;D  :P  ;)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on April 16, 2010, 06:40:20 PM
It's amazing in one email he states just alron and in the next it's alron/sprite.  Now i am confused!!!!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on April 16, 2010, 07:30:30 PM
I made a phone call to confirm, it was bought off UK ebay 2 weeks ago and maybe still be in completed listings.I cant find it, you may.
He hasn't picked it up yet from his mate's in UK,so no pics just yet  :P
cheers

ebay.co.uk
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on April 18, 2010, 11:27:04 AM
The person with the 'bro in England has confirmed its an American Eagle with the tallon motor.  Arranging pics
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on April 20, 2010, 10:44:59 AM
Any pics of the maiden re-run of the Alron, & Mitch's re-union w it?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on April 20, 2010, 10:50:06 AM
this Sunday.  I'm on night shift Saturday night, but taking dad down on Sunday morning.  Christine's bringing the camera
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on April 20, 2010, 11:54:05 AM
Sorry Tossa, I tho't it was last Sun
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on April 22, 2010, 10:04:13 PM
Tossa
All going to plan for Sunday at Narrogin
A few small things to do its a runner ;D ready for Dads reunion after 35 years
Will confirm with you on Sat morning just to be sure
Cheers

(http://i43.tinypic.com/2zej6nl.jpg)


(http://i40.tinypic.com/j98xf4.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on April 23, 2010, 08:04:46 AM
Looks neat VMX60. Probably the only Alron that'll ever race in VMX. Now that's unique.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on April 23, 2010, 09:40:22 AM
The old Alron looks pretty good but that OSSA engine looks like.......well we've been through this before. It just doesn't look comfortable in there. Nice job though VMX60, especially considering what you had to work with. It's certainly a unique piece of kit.

I must bring you to task John, there have been at least two or three of Alrons race VMX over the years including the 400 that raced at the first couple of Amaroo events and Joneseys 400 that appeared at a Nepean dirt track just prior to  him selling it.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on April 23, 2010, 09:46:48 AM
Wow great job and yeah mark the motor doesn't look comfortable, but 35yrs later!!!!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on April 23, 2010, 10:44:49 AM
Yeah you've done a really good job to get the old girl back on the track VMX60 but there's one thing I'd be searching eBay for....a new set of alloy side panels. I understand that they were cut ro make way for the bodgy Yamaha side pipe but now you've got a downpipe it'd be much prettier with either the cast alloy side panels or an unmolested alloy sheet seatbase/plate setup as you have on her now. The hard part is actually finding them. Both versions are as rare as honest footy administrators. ;) and you have quite a few other punters, me included, waiting for them to come up on eBay or anywhere.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: mx250 on April 23, 2010, 10:50:58 AM
If you have the cut originals and a pixie there are still some artisans out there that can whack up a 'better than new' replacement ;).
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on April 23, 2010, 11:00:36 AM
Totally agree Firko seat/sidecovers are stuffed but the cover bolts are just a ball of rust on the seat base the hold thing will fall apart .just left untouch until a late date.
On the list to do

Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on April 24, 2010, 09:06:54 AM

I must bring you to task John, there have been at least two or three of Alrons race VMX over the years including the 400 that raced at the first couple of Amaroo events and Joneseys 400 that appeared at a Nepean dirt track just prior to  him selling it.

Yeh, yr right Mark. I was thinking 250 Alrons tho.  Snowy may yet get his 400 on the track & knowing the owner of the Qld one (400) it may yet get on the track too, even if only briefly.


VMX, did you remove the sidecar mount brackets from the frame??

It'll be great to hear how it performs
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on April 24, 2010, 12:57:40 PM
JC

Yes, removed all sidecar brackets, etc, back to a solo. I was very temted to put a Phantom barrel on it, but have left it as found, standard SDR Specs. Mind you, with the 34 Mikuni and Phantom copy pipe, it does sound sweet on the stand. Will find out tomorrow how it goes. I left the jetting very rich throughout the range.

Tossa

Just to confirm, I will definately be there early morning at Narrogin.

Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on April 24, 2010, 01:30:32 PM
Quote
Yeh, yr right Mark. I was thinking 250 Alrons tho.  Snowy may yet get his 400 on the track & knowing the owner of the Qld one (400) it may yet get on the track too, even if only briefly.
Oh, you didn't specify which size. It wouldn't be hard to be the only 250 OSSA Alron to be on the track when it's the only one they built. ;D For what it's worth, Jonesy'll be debuting his pre fastback American Eagle 405 at CD7.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on April 24, 2010, 09:01:09 PM
we will be there after 9am
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on April 25, 2010, 03:31:16 PM
It wouldn't be hard to be the only 250 OSSA Alron to be on the track when it's the only one they built. ;D

Tongue in cheek, I know, but there were a few more than that one

Quote
Jonesy'll be debuting his pre fastback American Eagle 405 at CD7.

I'll look forward to that. Be nice if the 250 made it too, but I realize there are limitations
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on April 26, 2010, 09:55:57 AM
The big day arrived and they were re -united.  What a great job Murray.  It took me two yrs to get the old man to a VMX event, now he want's one of your OSSA's Murray so send one my way.

He was like a duck back in his favourite pond and chatted for hours, I believed he even gave murray the insight into how to make the motor quicker. he loved it.  Sorry for rambling 

Now the bike, yep had to look at the motor on a tilt.  Murray was gracious enough to allow me to have a ride and if we could have found some gear Brian would have been on it as well.  Let me say i was totally impressed, gee the damn thing handles so well and the SDR motor pulled like a train, though those bloody texas long horn handle bars have to go.  Offered murray 2,000 for it but wouldn't take it.   JC and mark High res photo's available if you want any

(http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww283/bmitches/others/P4257277_Narrogin_250410.jpg)
(http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww283/bmitches/others/P4257292_Narrogin_250410.jpg)
(http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww283/bmitches/others/P4257530_Narrogin_250410.jpg)
(http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww283/bmitches/others/P4257270_Narrogin_250410.jpg)
(http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww283/bmitches/others/P4257271_Narrogin_250410.jpg)
(http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww283/bmitches/others/P4257276_Narrogin_250410.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on April 26, 2010, 12:40:43 PM
Thoroughly enjoyed the VMX day.

After 35 years this photo is worth a thousand words -

(http://i41.tinypic.com/kei0xe.jpg)

Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: GD66 on April 26, 2010, 01:04:14 PM
Well done Murray, what you've done is a great effort and there were a lot of happy faces in the pits at Narrogin yesterday.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on April 26, 2010, 01:23:58 PM
He couldn't keep himself away from it all morning
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Davey Crocket on April 26, 2010, 01:29:13 PM
Great to see, and it's good to get the ol boys back, afterall without them we wouldnt be here. 8)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on April 26, 2010, 04:49:37 PM
Looks fantastic,job well done VMX60-- awesome vmx days  :P
I'm going to attend more modern stuff of pre85 this weekend at our home track ..should be good to breath in some fumes again.  8)
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on April 27, 2010, 08:21:30 AM
Many thanks for the pics guys. Wish I was there. Will speak to Mitch about it in a few days.

VMX60, did you remove the extra top shock mounts or not?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on April 27, 2010, 11:39:16 AM
JC
 The shock mounts are untouched so i can laid them forward at anytime as pre the Alron Photo with Ron, first time out had them upright so no finger pointing, still have to buy a pair of shocks the nice Alloy body pair i have are to long ::)
On the day nothing broke or fell off  and the jetting was just a little on the rich side overall ran the whole day riding a very nice handling  bike
Motor and pipe combo work out ok  even with the Phantom spec pipe on the SDR top end still pulled like a enduro model down low
Overall very happy ;D
Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on April 27, 2010, 12:55:17 PM
Reckon if you sold me one of those Ossa's he'd be back out there on it.  Was a really great day and Mitch was over the moon at what you had done with the bike.  he wouldn't shut up all day.  Wants to get a bike now, bloody typical, doesn't rain but it pours!!lol
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on April 28, 2010, 11:00:27 AM
Has anyone caught up with Roger Weir # 334,whom rode for Alron Industries at the Manjimup April 7th 1974. ?
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on April 28, 2010, 11:04:45 AM
It's good to see old blokes that make me look like a kiddie out there having some fun. Great to see an Alron on the track.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: T250K on April 28, 2010, 02:10:08 PM
That's a great story and that last photo is priceless.   I've got a similar one somewhere of Sammy Miller checking out his bike before a demo ride at the Goodwood Festival of Speed, the body language and concentration are almost identical.

Terrific effort VMX 60  :),  PM  sent.       
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on April 28, 2010, 04:24:17 PM
Has anyone caught up with Roger Weir # 334,whom rode for Alron Industries at the Manjimup April 7th 1974. ?
cheers

I managed to track Roger down last year & spoke to him a couple of times, but when I rang back 3rd time his phone had been disconnected. Unfortunately I hadn't got his mobile #.

He was up north at Glenfield & someone told me he was into go-kart racing

If anybody has any leads, I'd love to speak to him again
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on April 29, 2010, 12:29:22 PM
oops better get back in the right place   ;D
Alison....Heliarc is an old generic term for TIG welding from the days when they used helium instead of Argon. The yanks still use the term even though helium hasn't bee used in decades.
 
Quote
A point that struck us was the workmanship.All welds are heliarc ,and done in such a manner as to make a metal shop teacher proud.Gussets are hefty and in al the right places.Here is a double down -tube frame that should be free from breakage,however hard ridden............
That's interesting, I've never seen a "heliarced" AE/Sprite, Frank Hipkin, the Sprite manufacturer told me that the early frames were brazed then they switched to MIG welding for the fastback frame. My frames are both brazed and they're both pre '70 early frames.

Its the best article Ive got off ebay todate...$32  :(
"1968 Cycle Guide vol2 no 12 The Sprite 360 Motocross".
Good photos of the underbelly complex exhaust ,apparently too many joins/bends for a two stroke.
Negative about the Husky clone engine power. running 27th in horsepower race of the day.
Slim line is their game and soaking up bumps is their game.
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: EML on April 29, 2010, 05:43:34 PM
Many of the Wasp frames have often been classed as TIG welded but as far as I know they are/were all brazed then nickle chrome plated so as to not over harden them.
What ever they are beautiful even after many years of use.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on April 30, 2010, 10:47:55 AM
Hallelujah - finally managed to track down Graham Sully last night! (Mitch's fellow Alron-sponsored rider in enduros) Very useful contact & more of the picture.

Have been laid low by whooping cough for months, but have also spoken to RL a few times. The number he volunteered (before I asked or disclosed any of my info) for how many produced is lower than previously claimed anywhere. Still seems to like pork pie ("I had 3 retail shops & over 50 staff" at some stage) but some of what he says is true.

Its a laborious task tho cross-checking everything against what other insiders say. Umpteen STD/mobile calls later... If anything cannot be verified by others it gets discarded. Feel like a detective on a case sometimes. In fact RL said "you should have been a cop" when he heard who we've tracked down.  So far we've talked to 8 insiders from the early years & another 6 who were a bit later - the tail end of the Alron years (the bike years, not the business years)

Have also spoken w RL's mechanic thro the Alron years. Top guy - Invaluable contact. I do believe we are getting very close to the real facts. He's shed more light on the numbers produced, the rego'd bikes & on the so-called Rickman 250 Enduro that they "sold about 30 of"

Have also tracked what was left-over at the end. No, it wasn't dumped. Much of what was reported about the lefto-vers in VMX earlier (#7) is actually pretty close to the truth

There's even an interesting story of one of our real icons of MX trying a 400 Alron (before he was an icon)

Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on April 30, 2010, 10:55:27 AM
Slowly but surely, have you told my old man that you got in contact with RL, I'm sure he would love to know and contact Ron
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on May 03, 2010, 09:08:32 AM
Yeh Tossa, I had given it to him, but he must've forgotten. Nice talking to him (Mitch) on Sat, as always. Thanks for ringing
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: HuskyPete on May 10, 2010, 11:45:40 AM
Joney's American Eagle rebuild.
(http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy94/HuskyRacer/05102010217.jpg?t=1273455755)
(http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy94/HuskyRacer/05102010216.jpg?t=1273455807)
(http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy94/HuskyRacer/05102010218.jpg?t=1273455852)
(http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy94/HuskyRacer/05102010219.jpg?t=1273455902)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: darren4867 on May 11, 2010, 09:20:18 PM
This is my sprite 405 belive could have been  built for welsh 2 day enduro as is road reged.Im also looking for a fiberglass tank for another im going to build.How do I post a picture
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on May 11, 2010, 09:46:40 PM
Hi Darren.....go back over these posts and you may be able to work it out. It's a bit awkward at first but eventually you'll get it. Good luck, I'd like to see your bike. http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=3727.0 (http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=3727.0)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on May 11, 2010, 10:00:54 PM
Here's Jonesys 405 A/E tank, straight back from the painter.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/american%20eagle%20tank.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on May 13, 2010, 08:16:56 AM
Love the colour of that tank. Is Jonesy's gearbox  going to have Husky internals?

Also, did anybody notice in the article on Robin Humphries & his REH forks & hubs in latest CDB that he says most of his production went to Frank Hipkin for the Sprites?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on May 13, 2010, 10:07:07 AM
JC....Alans Sprite engine was originally to recieve a Husky trans but as this bike is to be totally original and is in perfect condition, the Husky bits will be held over for one of the other engines probably the Alron replica which will probably be raced.
I read Robin Humphries comments and it's true but only for the early models until Sprite set up their own foundry producing hubs, forks and other castings. Part of the Sprite Developments conglomerate were the Industrial Screw Products Ltd and the casting arm of the company, Sprite Alloys Ltd that produced all sorts of components including hubs and forks directly the same products that REH produced. We've compared Sprite and REH hubs and while they're similar (as are Rickman and Antig), they have distinctly noticable differences. (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/Backup%20of%20Publication1.jpg)

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/broch16.jpg)

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/sprite%20broch15.jpg)

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/sprite%20broch18.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on May 13, 2010, 11:31:32 AM
Thanks Mark.

I remembered something I think you posted here from Frank, pointing out the differences between his & REH forks & hubs & thats why I mentioned the CDB article.

I have noticed tho that there are 2 diff types of forks used by Sprite, so wondered if they used REH productes for a while until they cast their own. Perhaps the same w hubs
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on May 13, 2010, 03:17:40 PM
I have noticed tho that there are 2 diff types of forks used by Sprite,

Ceriani English equivalent Slim Line  ?? which is the other ?
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on May 13, 2010, 03:56:53 PM
Quote
I have noticed tho that there are 2 diff types of forks used by Sprite, so wondered if they used REH productes for a while until they cast their own.
That's correct JC. REH forks were used prior to Sprite making their own. Alison, to my knowledge Ceriani forks weren't use on production bikes....not sure of the slimnline reference.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on May 13, 2010, 05:31:07 PM
Alison, if you look at the BVM in VMX #30 the forks on the bike on top of p27 are diff to forks on the feature bike
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on May 13, 2010, 06:56:22 PM
Alison, to my knowledge Ceriani forks weren't use on production bikes....not sure of the slimnline reference.

Cycle Guide Dec 68...
The front forks are an English copy of the Ceriani,Slim line is their name and soaking up bumps is their game.
Included with the forks is the biggest fork crown we have seen.Slime Line feels that balll bearings are not good enough for the triple clamp so where the folks bolt to the frame a row of tapered rollers is found,a point where the copy is better than the original.


Alison, if you look at the BVM in VMX #30 the forks on the bike on top of p27 are diff to forks on the feature bike

thanks- will read
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: HuskyPete on May 19, 2010, 02:11:32 PM
AJ's American Eagle, notice how much extra weight Frank Stanbrough has put in the crank to get the balance factor to 75%, the rest is coming together nicely.

(http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy94/HuskyRacer/05192010221.jpg?t=1274241987)
(http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy94/HuskyRacer/05192010222.jpg?t=1274242070)


Starting on the gearbox
(http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy94/HuskyRacer/05192010224.jpg?t=1274242201)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: vmx42 on May 20, 2010, 08:41:29 AM
Hey Pete,
I have always frozen the crank and heated the bearing to get the crank into the mainbearing. I have seen some 'crank pullers' [if that is the right word] but have never used one, is it a better way to go?

Or are the tolerances on these bearings too tight for freezing/heating to work?

Do you lube the crank before pulling it into the bearing?

Sorry, lots of questions, just really interested in your thoughts.
Thanks
VMX42
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: matcho mick on May 20, 2010, 11:12:56 AM
errr,isn't (hope ;D ;D) thats what the jar of vaselines doing in the piccie for?, :P
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: vmx42 on May 20, 2010, 12:03:18 PM
errr,isn't (hope ;D ;D) thats what the jar of vaselines doing in the piccie for?, :P

I did see that, but I wasn't game to mention it…
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: HuskyPete on May 20, 2010, 12:56:32 PM
Jeff, i did indeed heat the bearing and freeze the crank just added a bit of vaso ;D to the shaft and used the crank tool to pull the crank into the bearing to make sure it was all the way home ;) makes the job easy using the right tools.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: vmx42 on May 20, 2010, 01:16:37 PM
Jeff, i did indeed heat the bearing and freeze the crank just added a bit of vaso ;D to the shaft and used the crank tool to pull the crank into the bearing to make sure it was all the way home ;) makes the job easy using the right tools.

Hi Pete,
Thanks for the update. I only asked because I assumed that it would take a bit of time to assemble the crank tool and line everything up - by which time the temperatures of the bearing and crank would have equalised.

You obviously work faster than I do.

I might have to invest in a crank tool in the future as I agree that the right tools make life easier [even when it is me that is using them  :-\]. The ones I have seen are really just a steel tube with a threaded insert and an adapter to attach to the crankend. Nothing as elaborate as the one you use.

Lastly, I am assuming that the tool seats against the inner race of the bearing?

Thanks
Jeff
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: HuskyPete on May 23, 2010, 04:56:49 PM
Jonesy A/E all done

(http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy94/HuskyRacer/05232010241.jpg?t=1274597656)

(http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy94/HuskyRacer/05232010242.jpg?t=1274597721)

(http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy94/HuskyRacer/05232010243.jpg?t=1274597776)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on May 23, 2010, 05:04:01 PM
Beauty.....I can't wait to ride it at CD7.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: HuskyPete on May 24, 2010, 10:14:48 AM
American Eagle/ Sprite Fallacy

The husky gearbox won't work in a Sprite/AE husky clone motor, at best you would have to change all the internals, crank, clutch, gearbox then maybe ??? ???
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on May 24, 2010, 10:27:07 AM
Quote
The husky gearbox won't work in a Sprite/AE husky clone motor
Now you've gone and thrown a spanner into the works Petey! ;D Perhaps the Dongmeister can enlarge on what's needed as he apparently uses Husky trannys in his American Eagle racers.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: bazza on May 24, 2010, 04:40:04 PM
 pete the  motor looks good and as Freddy of Kellyville says "its all about style" catch up at C/D
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on May 27, 2010, 10:46:55 PM
No wonder these bikes flopped. They were shite. Jonesys having all sorts of problems putting his AE together...nothing fits properly. Husky Pete had similar dramas with the engine. Now I've sat down and had a really good look at my AE (Sprite) frame, it's a seriously heavy bloody thing. There's no way they're made from Chrome moly, the wall thickness seems like 3mm. I'll try and weigh the frame over the weekend and will compare it to a Hindall, Cheney, Micro Metisse, Maico DT1 Yamaha and TS Suzuki frames. The results will be very interesting. My bets on the Sprite being even heavier than the TS frame.

The more we look into these bikes, the less inviting they become. That's why I like 'em ;D.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/BLASTING_027.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/BLASTING%20082.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: vmxken on May 28, 2010, 06:13:54 AM
Reminds me of the fun I had taking mine apart.  The lower engine bolt on mine wouldn't come out unless I bent the bolt after it was half way out, so it would clear the frame.  It almost seems like they'd bolted the engine to the brackets and then installed the engine and welded the brackets to the frame.  Not looking forward to putting that bolt back in.

Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: mx250 on May 28, 2010, 06:27:28 AM
It almost seems like they'd bolted the engine to the brackets and then installed the engine and welded the brackets to the frame. 
  :o :o. Don't do that, you are reminding of working on Pommy cars of the period :-[. Ahhhhhhhhhhhh.

I think that period of the history of Pommy engineering was a high point in expediency and a low point of engineering excellence.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on May 28, 2010, 08:08:52 AM
These sorts of things are the same as I observed on the bike in NQ. 

Symptomatic of what killed the pommie auto industry back then.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: bazza on June 02, 2010, 06:35:01 PM
Al the eagle has landed and will come from Un Zud with roger Eagle 405 parts at C/D
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on June 03, 2010, 09:02:35 AM
http://ausvmx.ning.com/photo/sprite-405-special?context=latest (http://ausvmx.ning.com/photo/sprite-405-special?context=latest)

Link is to pic of Darren's (see pg37) 405 Sprite tho't to be built for the Welsh 2 day Enduro

Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on June 03, 2010, 09:14:49 AM
Quote
Al the eagle has landed and will come from Un Zud with roger Eagle 405 parts at C/D
Believe it or not, I understand this cryptic message. ...."Jonesys special Klub Kevlar American Eagle stickers featuring Roger Ramjet and the American Eagles (get it?) will be personally delivered from New Zealand at CD7 by Komrade Jolley.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: mx250 on June 03, 2010, 09:33:54 AM
http://ausvmx.ning.com/photo/sprite-405-special?context=latest (http://ausvmx.ning.com/photo/sprite-405-special?context=latest)

Link is to pic of Darren's (see pg37) 405 Sprite tho't to be built for the Welsh 2 day Enduro


Looks like a trials bike to me. Nice looking bike in the minimalist genre. 
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: EML on June 03, 2010, 11:02:02 AM
That can't have been for the Welsh 2day, there's no fog lights on it/lol
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on June 03, 2010, 11:10:15 AM
http://ausvmx.ning.com/photo/sprite-405-special?context=latest (http://ausvmx.ning.com/photo/sprite-405-special?context=latest)

Link is to pic of Darren's (see pg37) 405 Sprite tho't to be built for the Welsh 2 day Enduro


Looks like a trials bike to me. Nice looking bike in the minimalist genre. 


Yeh, same here Graeme. Pos'n of footpegs looks decidedly uncomfortable to me.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on June 06, 2010, 09:59:37 PM
Caught up with Mr Mitcheson today at Manjimup 15000,he's hooked again just mentioned the Alron reunion and there's a big smile. 8)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/manjimup15000014.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on June 06, 2010, 10:03:21 PM
Alron reunion? Now that's something I'd love to be at. Imagine the horror stories and bullshit flying at that little soiree! ;D
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on June 06, 2010, 10:13:15 PM
Alron reunion? Now that's something I'd love to be at. Imagine the horror stories and bullshit flying at that little soiree! ;D

Alron reunion;referring to reply 527   8)
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: HuskyPete on June 07, 2010, 10:53:03 AM
Rumor has it the A/E 405 Talon squalked on the weekend ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on June 07, 2010, 11:53:45 AM
Yep, much to our surprise Jonesy got Roger Ramjet running last night. He's as excited as a kid discovering he got a Ken Doll for Christmas. ;)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on June 07, 2010, 02:58:21 PM
Does anyone know what happened to Richard Bauckham 64 Sprite featured in VMX mag  #36 as he intended on selling it, at the time the story was printed.
Words and Photos by Chris Malam
cheers  8)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on June 08, 2010, 09:08:16 AM
Yep Alison cught up with mitch at manjimup, she got two photo's on the day one with the McKenzie boys and the other with him.  She swooned when he showed her his No1 membership of the Trail and Enduro club, as he formed the club, she thought he was a living god, well that's what he told me!!lol
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on June 08, 2010, 09:18:36 AM
Quote
Does anyone know what happened to Richard Bauckham 64 Sprite featured in VMX mag  #36 as he intended on selling it, at the time the story was printed.
Words and Photos by Chris Malam
That bike is in the UK Alison. Talk to Ken about chasing it through Chris but getting bikes out of the UK ain't easy as you well know.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: bazza on June 08, 2010, 06:39:18 PM
Firko get off your computer and into the shed, im on the big bird having a wee dram, see you friday big boy
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on June 15, 2010, 01:49:05 PM
Quote
Al the eagle has landed and will come from Un Zud with roger Eagle 405 parts at C/D
Believe it or not, I understand this cryptic message. ...."Jonesys special Klub Kevlar American Eagle stickers featuring Roger Ramjet and the American Eagles (get it?) will be personally delivered from New Zealand at CD7 by Komrade Jolley.

Very nice too Komrade RamJet Jolly.
Congratulations to all on the American Blue Eagle of Alan Jones at CD7,so nice to see it in the flesh and for me being able to tell young Stefan from Husqvarna Sydney the history of the true Vikings (with back up from Alan)  ;)  ;D  8)
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on June 16, 2010, 04:00:53 PM
Here's a shot of Alan aboard Roger Ramjet the American Eagle telling the legendary Frank Stanborough and Mike "Bazza" Jolley about the ten white plastic YZs he passed in the air going over 'Drunks Hill'. Throughout the weekend, Roger Ramjet got the most number of "What the f*ck is it"? questions from passers by. This really is a beautiful example of a really bad bike ;D.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/cd7%20009.jpg)
              (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/Classic_Dirt_7_010.jpg)
              (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/Classic_Dirt_7_007.jpg)
              (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/Classic_Dirt_7_005.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: HuskyPete on July 08, 2010, 10:04:32 AM
Firko, did Jonesy have any offers. ;)

(http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy94/HuskyRacer/ClassicDirt7026.jpg?t=1278547201)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: vmx42 on July 08, 2010, 10:50:20 AM
Firko, did Jonesy have any offers. ;)

(http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy94/HuskyRacer/ClassicDirt7026.jpg?t=1278547201)

OK, I'll up that to 2 bottles and I will throw in some nibblies as well…
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: mx250 on July 08, 2010, 11:02:03 AM
Apparently the conundrum is you have to have a skinfull to ride the thing ;D - mutually exclusive :D.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on July 22, 2010, 11:11:26 PM
Apparently the conundrum is you have to have a skinfull to ride the thing ;D - mutually exclusive :D.

Mutually Exclusive owners we are- thank you  ;D   ;)
VMX60 will you heading to Wandering/Dyjack Ridge this weekend ?
cheers Alison and co
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on July 22, 2010, 11:41:27 PM
Alison
Heading to Steves this W/end
See you at the Exclusive Sprite parking area of the pits ;D

Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Hoony on July 24, 2010, 09:49:08 PM
Firko, did Jonesy have any offers. ;)

(http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy94/HuskyRacer/ClassicDirt7026.jpg?t=1278547201)

Offers of a good Rogering ?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on July 25, 2010, 12:15:46 AM
Quote
Firko, did Jonesy have any offers.
People were ringing him all weekend offering all sorts of bizarre items from sex toys, broken Chinese pit bikes, right through to half a bottle of Apple cinnamon schnapps and even yes....a good old fashioned rogering  ;D. He's making a start on the 250 American Eagle as soon as he's finished with the new go fast engine for Black Betty for the serious dirt track Nats stuff.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: bazza on July 25, 2010, 03:55:56 PM
AJs bike nearly went for a good Rogering and a bottle of Appletons Rum
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on July 26, 2010, 10:48:31 AM
Alison
Heading to Steves this W/end
See you at the Exclusive Sprite parking area of the pits ;D
Cheers

Hey ! missed you at the Exclusive Sprite Club gathering.
We had a special guest a Mr Bert Carvell Qld on another British beauty a Greeve's , so I yarned with him.  ;D 
cheers Alison
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on July 31, 2010, 06:09:36 PM
 ;D
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sprite-Trials-Frame-/130413545769?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1e5d40c929

sold for 59 $ aus
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on August 13, 2010, 04:57:39 PM
Is there an Alron Gathering this Sunday at Wandering Mill Farm..
MB Racing Sprite will be absent due to replacement of crank seals in the wee Villiers motor..see you there  8)
cheers Alison
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on August 13, 2010, 05:34:08 PM
good chance the homeless people from Southern cross might make an appearance
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on August 13, 2010, 05:39:11 PM
good chance the homeless people from Southern cross might make an appearance

They are a great support team for RM racing  ;D
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: number8 on August 27, 2010, 04:57:57 PM
Hey Firko,

More interesting"American Eagle/Alron" stuff

This was on MX action web site"Dream Jobs" it's about Alan Olsan

STARTING POINT: “My brother Marv and I owned an electrical contracting business, and we did some work for American Eagle in 1975. They couldn’t pay the bill and gave us three American Eagle Talons (in the crates). So, we started riding them.”

THE JOB : “My job is to develop the best exhaust for every model. I fall back on my experience with that bike to build prototype pipes (often as many as ten test units). I dyno them and race with them. We sponsor a pro rider to help us with testing. The best thing about this job is that I’m always around motocross. I was Doug Dubach’s, Craig Anderson’s, Steve Lamson’s, Paul Carpenter’s and Chad Reed’s mechanic before, so I’m glad that Vance & Hines has a race team that I can work at.”

#8
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on August 27, 2010, 10:27:51 PM
http://www.wischt.com/alron-story1.htm (http://www.wischt.com/alron-story1.htm)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on September 01, 2010, 10:54:13 AM
1968-9 American Eagle 405 In need of restoration. Turns over, good compression, no spark, I never heard it run. Shouldered rear aluminum rim, nice pipe, incorrect seat and rear fender. Solid frame, nickel plated, clean straight fiberlglass tank. I can help with shipping. $2500.00

       Joe Abbate
Brentwood, CA
Phone: (201) 264-1295 | Email | Website


Saw the Alron at 15th Anniversary  :P ...looks real sweet in the flesh  :-* actually I nearly feel over it the second time ,as I was running late after lunch breaks end  ;D
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: mx250 on September 01, 2010, 01:47:10 PM
(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/OzVMX/MJH-Tyran1-med.jpg)

Looks like a quality ride. ;D

http://www.wischt.com/MHJ-alron.htm
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: paul on September 02, 2010, 11:42:55 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/American-Eagle-Sprite-250-GMXR-/120613906589?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item1c1526289d
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on September 02, 2010, 12:45:40 PM
The above American Eagle 250 is the same one that was recently for sale on the Swapmeet for $600 or so. It's got the hard to find alloy side panels but it's a pretty basic shitter that'll need a hell of a lot of work. The forks and front wheel aren't original and the frame is rooted. You'll need pipe, mudguards, and a lot of little things that are pretty hard to find. If you go by every other American Eagle tank I've seen it'll leak and need sealing.

Joe Abbate's A/E for sale on the swapmeet is a more desirable 405 and is a far better project starter, despite being $1000 over priced.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: bazza on September 03, 2010, 02:50:59 PM
Hey mx250 nice umbrella !!!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on September 05, 2010, 03:05:58 PM
http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=8968.msg148851#msg148851 (http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=8968.msg148851#msg148851)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on September 24, 2010, 04:20:39 PM
a bit of old advertising  8)

http://cgi.ebay.com/1950s-Villiers-Starmaker-Engines-Leaflets-2-Items-/250697960970?pt=UK_CarParts_Vehicles_Manuals_Litterature_ET&hash=item3a5ec34e0a
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on September 24, 2010, 05:02:30 PM
I got this email from Frank Hipkin, the founder of Sprite and father of the whole American Eagle/Alron/BVM/Sprite family of bikes. Frank and I have been in semi regular contact for quite a while and he's supplied me with some interesting information and clippings. Frank regularly lurks this forum and has taken me to task over my criticisms of the Sprite frame and my assertions that they were made from mild steel and not the Reynold 351 that many of the magazine articles and ads. especially for AE say they're made from Reynold 351. Over to Frank in his own words....................................
Hello Mark.
Today I am putting pictures of early type sprite frames, as you can see from the engine brackets, it was to fit the star maker/9E/34A/32A. Your comments and readers comments regarding the weight of the frames and type of tubing used, plus the size of their holes and the size of the bolts that went in them. The first point is that we, as off road riders called scrambling, we were national and international riders, we had at that time had only been used to greeves/cotton/BSA/others in those early years. There were many frame builders building one-offs and charging lots of pounds, but we were manufacturing to make a motorcycle which was capable of winning club regional National and International events at the right price.


1  Frame tubing, 1 inch.  ERW mild steel thick gauge.  2 Swinging arm tubing much thicker gauge, brackets for the back wheel to fit and damper mount was made out of 3/8 of an inch profile cut plate.

3  normally the brackets are most of the engines that were fitted were 1/8 of an inch thick.  4  The head stock tube, was a thick gauge to allow machining for the taper roller bearing.  5. Swinging arm spindle, 1 inch solid mild steel with two indents in to locate it with two small quarter grub screw.  6  Swinging arm bushes high grade nylon cap Headed.

Mark, as you may know we has English men, you would call us Poms, or maybe worse I don't know. That is my sick humour. We were taught to drill or mill a hole to the size of the Bolt, not to drill a hole say 5/8 of an inch, four a 3/8 of an inch/5/16 of an inch, with a large repair washer to hide the clearance.

When I was 11 years of age I went to high school, we then had rows of metal working drilling milling turning machines, which I am still able to use today which I do. We were taught by our teachers and forefathers the right way but it's much easier and quicker to do it the wrong way, but that's the way it is today.
I am asking you again did you go to America to see Walt had American Eagle. Please answer this last line.
Regards Frank.

              (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/sprite%20frame%20drawing.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: SAABCOMBI on September 24, 2010, 06:51:21 PM
this thread is turning into a best selling novel
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on September 29, 2010, 11:04:00 AM
here you go Husky67 a challenge-two more to fit  ;D  ;)   :-\

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1971-American-Eagle-Sprite-Husqvarna-copy-400-engine-/350395814244?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item519537d164

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1971-American-Eagle-Sprite-Husqvarna-copy-400-engine-G-/370434775680?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item563fa21a80
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: HuskyPete on September 29, 2010, 12:47:11 PM
Ally,

Once was enough  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: bazza on September 29, 2010, 01:36:46 PM
MX250 does indeed look like a nice ride,and not a bad bike either!!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on October 14, 2010, 09:39:46 PM
Just thought you might want to have another LOOK @ how pretty she is !!  ;D  ;D  

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/a%20e%201.jpg)

Sprite/American Eagle405 Talon-Brand Name Roulette - 1971
American Eagle arrived on the USA motocross scene in 1967 with a big ad budget and small racing team (that included a young Brad Lackey). But, in truth, there was no American Eagle motorcycle factory. The American Eagle was a private-label bike that was built by Sprite Developments in Oldbury, England by Frank Hipkin. Brits could buy the bike as the Sprite 405 Talon, Americans were offered the bike as the American Eagle 405 Talon, Australians knew it as the Alron 405 and Belgiums thought it was the BVM 405. All the bikes were identical, with the exception of the American bikes having “American Eagle” cast into the engine case. Amazingly all the different national distributors tried to pretend that the Sprites were designed in the home countries. It wasn’t until many years later that each country learned the truth about the “other” Sprites.

Most distressing of the “clone engineering” behind the $1195 American Eagle 405 Talon was that the engine itself was a clone. It was an Italian-built copy of a late ‘60s, four-speed, 399cc, Husqvarna engine. Many Husqvarna parts would fit in the Italian engine, but not all. Most American Eagles racers remember the gearbox with particular distaste. Additionally the Talon had a Sprite-built fork that was a direct copy of a Ceriani fork.

Sprite Developments in England showed rapid growth from 1964 to 1974. Owner Frank Hipkin started building lightweight, Reynolds tubing frame kits for Villiers, Triumph Cub, Husqvarna and Maico engines. Amazingly enough, if Hipkin had kept the Sprite motorcycle company small he might have lasted longer. Success killed the Sprite, Talon, Alron and BVM. When Hipkin started exporting Sprites in large numbers the British government closed the tax loopholes that Sprite was using and, following the collapse of the U.S. American Eagle distributor (Galaxy Wholesale in Garden Grove, California), the financial losses were too great to absorb.

Today, Sprite Development still exists, but it builds RVs, caravans and motor homes.

WHAT THEY COST
Although it was quite rare to find the Sprite or it’s stepchilds on EBay, collectors don’t seem to be drawn to them. This un-restored example was purchased in 2006 for $2600. A good core (original but in need of restoration) Husqvarna of the same year would easily go for twice this amount.

MODELS
Eagle 125 – CMXR (125cc Sachs engine), Eagle 250 – GMXR (250cc Husqvarna clone), and the Eagle 405 – TMXR (405cc Husqvarna clone).

WHAT TO LOOK FOR
The Eagles came with several different fuel tanks (2.0gal or 2.5gal) made of either fiberglass or aluminum and either Dunlop Sports knobbies or trials tires. The side panels are aluminum as are the fenders and the front and rear hubs are polished aluminum. If these items are in good shape, the bike will make a beautiful addition to any collection.

PARTS SUPPLY
It is very difficult to find parts for the Sprites. Vintage Husky in San Marcos, CA at 760-744-8052 may be able to help. In Europe, try Frans Munsters at vintage@fmunsters.nl.

 
 

   
     

Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on November 17, 2010, 11:05:29 AM
I know its 41 pages and instead of wadding though it all,did the Starmaker come out in any other cc besides the 250 ??
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: big mac on November 17, 2010, 02:15:31 PM
If your talking about the motors then AJS ran 370 & 410's in the stormers.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on November 18, 2010, 08:45:06 PM
Sprite at ths UK Stafford classic bike show 18/10/10



(http://i55.tinypic.com/ictx92.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on November 30, 2010, 10:25:38 AM
early closed fin Starmaker cylinders,

Does anyone have a photo anywhere of the above or is it already in this thread ??
thanks for your help
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: shorelinemc on December 03, 2010, 05:46:03 PM
looks like i might have bought a american eagle 405,then was talking to a mate of mine who races vmx and he said yeh,i have a alron400 in the shed -so there is another one
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: clutchslip on December 05, 2010, 09:17:08 AM
Lots of info here much of it specific trials, but have a dig around and follow the links, there are 30 posts or so in this series altogether, click the photos for larger views.....

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_M0vlRAaZ2gU/Rv1dzawVRCI/AAAAAAAAAUA/Pa9vC2ZMg50/s1600-h/Sp1.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_M0vlRAaZ2gU/Rv1dzawVRCI/AAAAAAAAAUA/Pa9vC2ZMg50/s1600-h/Sp1.jpg)


http://www.classicrider444.com/category/bike-projects/sprite/

http://www.classicrider444.com/2010/01/15/before-and-after-no2-sprite/
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on December 07, 2010, 10:04:16 AM
looks like i might have bought a american eagle 405,then was talking to a mate of mine who races vmx and he said yeh,i have a alron400 in the shed -so there is another one

Robin, if that's Steve's its already accounted for it
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: shorelinemc on December 09, 2010, 11:22:19 AM
yes it was
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on December 17, 2010, 06:15:37 PM
I love this photo of Dave Smith aboard the works Sprite in 1967. Young Dave appears to have been a big lump of a boy, note how far forward his bars are set :o. The people in the background are an interesting cross section....the duffle coated old geeza with his thermos of hot tea, the local farmer in his bib and brace overalls, a smiling schoolboy fan and a couple of Carnaby street mods.
Current Brit classic racing legend Terry Challinor was Smiths team mate in the team on the square barrel Maico powered bikes. I've finally collected all of the parts needed to build a replica of this bike and will get into it once the current projects are out of the way. ;)
   (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/dave%20smith%20Maico.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on December 17, 2010, 06:36:37 PM
He's got my fuel tank. !!  ;D actually Ive got his- Steven has been fiberglassing the rear of the tank mount as it wasn't quiet long enough..So mine too is coming along.And a few bits lined up in the states also.
The pic above really shows how its all changed with the locals and passerbyers just dropping into see whats happening over yonder..The Maico really fills the frame  :)
Great shot-still love the boots. 8)
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on December 17, 2010, 09:55:04 PM
There's two 'glass tanks...which do you have Alison?
Here's my red 2 gallon and 1.5 gallon (orange)which is what is on the Sprite/Maico by the looks.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/american%20eagle%20tank.1.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/125%20tank.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on December 18, 2010, 12:18:42 PM
Its the bottom one ,though white like Dave Smith's  ;D
The back tab mount was only 10 mills, so Steven fiberglassed it to 40-50 ml.

you can dig into my pics here
 http://ausvmx.ning.com/photo/sprite-villiers?context=user
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on December 19, 2010, 11:34:40 AM
what is this and do we have a pic ??
Thanks A
closed fin Starmaker cylinders
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on December 19, 2010, 12:58:46 PM
Ali...I presume he means the early engine shown in the top photo as opposed to the bottom AJS Stormer photo. What exactly are you looking for? I presumed your Sprite already had a Villiers engine ???. If you're intent on a Starmaker engine, you may be more successful directing your ads on the Swapmeet towards asking for an AJS Stormer engine as many folks might not understand that the engine is actually a Villiers Starmaker and think it's an AJS 2 stroke. Why the need for a Villiers anyway when so many different motors were originally used. You may have better luck chasing down a Maico square barrel 350/360/400 engine to build a 'works replica'. 8) You could try a Kawasaki 250 or even an OSSA Pioneer engine, the one that fits in crooked ;). Even more exciting, what about a ridgy didge Sprite 250? AJ might just be able to sell you one.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/starmaker%20early.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/starmaker%20late.png.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on December 19, 2010, 01:17:05 PM
Steven and I both want a Starmaker Engine in it and cause then we can stay happly married  ;)  ;D
Yes it has a Villiers 34A in it with a centre exhaust port --but like yourself we want something that tad original/normal,plus a wise older Queenslander suggest the Starmaker ! If we put a KX/Ossa or some common engine in there people wont really look twice,but by putting something different/unique in it,it makes people ask questions..preserving an era.  :P
Though if the 250 Sprite comes along or AJ gets a need to move a few bits along, then we might change our mine's.Ask him sometime please.  :)
I do have a fellow lined up in the USA that has a very large amount of Stramaker gear,,its just bugging him for it ,maybe after Christmas he may move them on to Oz.
Thanks for the AJS info,but I assumed everyone knew the history of Sprite/Villiers/Cotton/AJS & British MC etc.  :-\
cheers

quote:your ads on the Swapmeet towards asking for an AJS Stormer engine as many folks might not understand that the engine is actually a Villiers Starmaker and think it's an AJS 2 stroke.
Hope this doesnt confuse em  ;D
http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/swapmeet.cgi?Z=GbXtuM2FB6Pg1f7HuyMvAWDy7QrAe1A1wvhFbFNoVtJxMskbcCuUCuUe1AMsrv45&submit=Back+To+The+Swapmeet
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on December 20, 2010, 12:08:14 PM
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/Dansdreamusa.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: clutchslip on December 21, 2010, 03:14:06 AM
Personally, I wouldn't get hung up on the Starmaker, though the gearbox is all needle-roller, a distinct advantage compared to a stock villiers box, although maybe less so today when the strip/rebuild routine is likely to be more frequent than for the average clubman in the 60s. Don't forget the early bikes also used the alpha bottom end with Greeves alloy barrel on top - this is an alternative pre-65 setup; finding a Marcelle or Parkinson barrel would bling up this setup. Or go with a Greeves challenger 250 engine and albion box, far easier to find than a good starmaker. Or alternatively, and finally, if you are looking for pre-70, why not go with the VERY easy to find Greeves Griffon motor and the unburstable Greeves box that went with it....Having said all of that, I might be tempted by a squarie Maico...
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: stormer 254 on December 21, 2010, 06:13:23 AM
IF You want the fastest 250  pre 65 bike use a  Starmaker Stormer based engine ,with a decent late 70s or very early 80s expansion chamber and a bit of judicious tuning, you will leave any other 250 behind, positively eats Challengers and Griffins. Plus every bit you want the engine is available from AJS in England plus a n enormous amount of tuning info from Nick and Fluff. ;D
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: cyclegod on December 21, 2010, 07:18:08 PM
http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/largephoto.cgi?C=BSrHS4AXuUbT8tmh
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on December 22, 2010, 12:05:49 AM
http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/largephoto.cgi?C=BSrHS4AXuUbT8tmh
Thanks CG,
looks like stringofshowponies is still trying for the high end of the market-$599  :o
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GREEVES-ENGINE-MOTOR-ASSY-VINTAGE-GREEVES_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ171108QQitemZ160514847714

http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=16370.msg163851

and your post on the vintagemx site we have $395  8)
which shows they are still available and not too much of a big rush for us. :)
cheers Alison
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on December 23, 2010, 11:24:02 PM
Sprite founder Frank Hipkin is a lurker on this forum and has been following this thread with great interest.
Whenever Frank reads something that he has an opinion on he emails me to let me know his thoughts. His input to my Sprite /American Eagle/Alron history project has been invaluable. Here's his take on the Starmaker engine.

We at Sprite motorcycles used to fit the star maker Mark 1 engine, they were  robust apart from the primary chain, the engine didn't live up to its publicity put out by Villiers in Wolverhampton UK. Firstly they used to run backwards on slow tick over, secondly it really wasn't quick enough. At that time we were selling quite a few motorcycles trials and scrambles machines, we had got a good name in the off-road scene and we were approached by Villiers. Peter Inchley, who at the time was winning the British ACU 250 cc National championship, he was recognised in the road racing circles as a top tuner. It was agreed with Villiers and myself, that Peter and a spanner man Geoff Burgess would bring engines to Sprite Motorcycles factory, we firstly began by testing it at my private track, then when we got it going something like, we took it to Hawkstone Park daily until I was satisfied with the power, it finished up that I could go round Hawkstone Park with the power that I thought it should be, for top class racing.

Now that was done with the road racing barrel/head with the narrow fins and with the bad name of the star maker Mark 1 engine. I told them with the help of Peter and Jeff, that if they want to sell star makers engines they must use those barrels/heads carburettors expansion chambers.   
Then I was approached by Peter to attend a board meeting with the Villiers, Pete told me they were interested in possibly a joint or takeover  Sprite, I went to the meeting in the board room with I think Ron Flowers chairman and at least seven/eight directors, in the meeting there was also Bernard Hooper, the designer of the star maker engines. I listened to what they got to say, wasn't very interested at all,
after the meeting I had quite a long talk with Bernard Hooper, about two stroke engines.
That was the time of putting maico/Husky engines etc into the sprites. So i had no interest there way.

The second picture is when we were riding in Ireland at there  national meeting. The picture shows two riders at the top one is Terry Challoner leading, with the caption on the top with my name Frank Hipkin riding a
Greeves. Terry was on a 250 cc: Sprite with a star maker Mark 2 engine in. That was a prototype engine before Villiers went in to production and making a own off road motorcycles. Terry won the main race, I finished second on a Greeves motorcycle. The head lines in the paper said Vic Allan came first, we had lapped him. We took the money.

The funny thing about it was when we arrived in Belfast my dealer Albert Clark wanted to know why I didn't bring a Sprite to ride myself, I told him I was pretty well at the end of my racing and that I was looking after my works riders. In those days in Ireland you only raced on Saturdays so as soon as we got off the boat in the morning we went and had a point or two of Guiness. Then all Albert Clark pointed out to me that it was their biggest meeting, and in Belfast on the lampposts all our names were on posters and I was entered, he finally convinced me to ride, we went to his shop and all he had got three second hand Greeves, so I used one of them. The conditions in the main event was atrocious, and in those conditions I excelled in, it was a long race I was leading it up to the last lap Terry was second, I waited for him to allow him to win.I was second.

I think Bert Greeves and Mr Cobb wondered what on earth that they gaffer of Sprite motorcycles was doing on a Greeves.
 
Ok Mark i have been sending you lot of stuff.Now if it is of no use to you please let me know.??
 
Regards
Frank.

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/CCF11112009_00000.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/CCF27112009_00007.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: stormer 254 on December 25, 2010, 07:07:57 AM
I think that reinforces my point that a judicially tuned Starmaker motor is the way to go, also a very good spares  source of AJS of Andover.  ;D
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on December 25, 2010, 10:39:05 AM
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/xmas.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on December 26, 2010, 06:52:14 PM
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/starmaker%20early.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/starmaker%20late.png.jpg)

What years are these--still both pre65  ?
cheers us two
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: stormer 254 on December 27, 2010, 01:34:19 AM
The first engine is a narrow fin Starmaker and you would be allowed to use that engine in pre65 in the UK, you might like to fit an air filter though ;D The second engine/ bike is an AJS Stormer, not eligible for pre 65, runs in the pre74s. Engine parts mostly interchangeable so  can help tuning/cheating ;)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on December 29, 2010, 10:56:54 AM
Is the Villiers Starmaker wide fin Engine pre65 ??
and do you know what Villiers Starmaker engine numbers are for the pre65 ??
Dave T or anyone ..
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on January 03, 2011, 04:48:08 PM
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/Brian%20N.jpg)
Brian Nadin on a Sprite Villiers in 1964.

Proof enough that Starmakers where/are pre65.  8)
cheers A
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on January 03, 2011, 06:12:33 PM

Quote
Proof enough that Starmakers where/are pre65
I don't think anyone ever said they weren't Alison. Craig Elliot among others has raced his Starmaker powered Cotton in pre 65 in the past. It's never been in doubt. ;)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on January 03, 2011, 06:33:58 PM

Quote
Proof enough that Starmakers where/are pre65
I don't think anyone ever said they weren't Alison. Craig Elliot among others has raced his Starmaker powered Cotton in pre 65 in the past. It's never been in doubt. ;)

True,very true- It's just for self reasurance and for all those new to VMX and the history of British bikes.  ;D
cheers A
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: stormer 254 on January 06, 2011, 09:38:31 AM
Greeves ME 250 Starmaker 1963, as you might guess I am rather partial to the Starmaker engine ;D
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on January 07, 2011, 10:33:32 PM
WANTED: Front Brake Cable for Sprite/Americian Eagle /Greeves anything that fits my/our pre65 please ....
enter CG  ;D
cheers us two WA
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on January 07, 2011, 10:47:32 PM
I'll ask AJ for you Alison. I think he had a couple made up for Roger Ramjet......which is for sale if you're interested.(the bike, not the cable ;D)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on January 07, 2011, 10:57:14 PM
I'll ask AJ for you Alison. I think he had a couple made up for Roger Ramjet......which is for sale if you're interested.(the bike, not the cable ;D)

I feel lots of ching ching $$ ,with that Husky motor rebuild put in.I've heard the story first hand remember ... ;D
Steven says how much ??
cheers us 2 WA
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on January 07, 2011, 11:03:27 PM
I'll ask him in the morning while I'm enquiring about your cable. He's selling a number of bikes, mainly speedway stuff but I think the B50, Hagon Monocoque TT500 and Redline XL350 Honda are first off the rank.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on January 07, 2011, 11:08:24 PM
Redline XL350 Honda are first off the rank.

I won't mention that one then  ;)  ;D
Steven says what year is it  ;D
cheers Us 2 WA
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on January 10, 2011, 11:07:00 AM
loads of eye candy   8)

http://www.bultacowest.com/gallery-index.php#misc
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on January 18, 2011, 04:49:17 PM
Watch this space !!  ;D   ;)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/watchthisspace.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Watto HVA 1 on January 18, 2011, 06:33:51 PM
Jeez Alison..what are you going to do with a box full of Wonderbras... ??? :) ;D
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on January 19, 2011, 10:13:55 AM
I'll take the MZ in the background
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: bazza on January 20, 2011, 03:11:26 PM
Alison the side covers are cool about 6mm thick and cast - could use for a skid pan on a vinduro
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: paul on January 20, 2011, 03:42:11 PM
come on allison ive been waiting for days to see what you got
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on January 20, 2011, 07:03:21 PM
The above three box's left the USA this morning via priority mail.  :P
How much do you reckon that cost for 78lbs worth of gear ?  :'(  :o   :-X

So now we have had a whole reshuffle of the Classic Nationals entries and as it stands from yesterday, going for a pre65,pre75 and a pre79 stable.  :P
cheers A
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on January 21, 2011, 12:30:52 AM
Paul it was 190 more than your highest guess = $490  ;)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: bazza on January 22, 2011, 08:19:10 AM
Hi Alison, seems high for freight i bring bike and Mustang parts to unzud every month.Did you bring them in UPS    or     United States Postal Service?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on January 26, 2011, 11:16:17 AM
I'll take the MZ in the background
You did get me thinkin  ;D and I found a full photo of her (MX 69 ISDT) !! Should be a "he", cause it looks like a right work horse too. ;)  8) Have you got any history on them JC.? cheers A

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/1969MZISDTleft.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on January 31, 2011, 09:43:22 AM
I'll take the MZ in the background
You did get me thinkin  ;D and I found a full photo of her (MX 69 ISDT) !! Should be a "he", cause it looks like a right work horse too. ;)  8) Have you got any history on them JC.? cheers A


No Alison. (I wish)  I hated them back in the day. Regarded them as old-fashioned outdated heavyweight iron-curtain slugs, but have come to appreciate them more recently - at least the circa73 & later models.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on January 31, 2011, 10:48:31 AM
Here ya go Alison.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/sprite05.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/sprite%20frame%20drawing.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on January 31, 2011, 11:07:10 AM
Frank Hipkin sent these and the above clippings. I've been meaning to put them up for a couple of weeks. Note the comment by Frank regarding Husky reneging on their deal behind his back.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/sprite%20jeff%20smith.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/sprite03.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on February 01, 2011, 01:39:14 PM
Thanks Firko,all good.
Some how we have that bit of info from an old magazine.Just in a different format.
cheers Alison
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: 223 on February 01, 2011, 07:21:13 PM
<a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=24l2ded" target="_blank"><img src="http://i54.tinypic.com/24l2ded.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>
<a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=6jovox" target="_blank"><img src="http://i52.tinypic.com/6jovox.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>
ciao Graziano
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on February 02, 2011, 10:25:07 AM
Thanks and total gratitude goes to Dan Vitaletti in the USA for his over whelming help.Also to Marks Vintage Swapmeet.
They have arrived !!!  ;D
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/arrival-1.jpg)

Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on February 04, 2011, 11:19:29 PM
I'll take the MZ in the background
You did get me thinkin  ;D and I found a full photo of her (MX 69 ISDT) !! Should be a "he", cause it looks like a right work horse too. ;)  8) Have you got any history on them JC.? cheers A
No Alison. (I wish)  I hated them back in the day. Regarded them as old-fashioned outdated heavyweight iron-curtain slugs, but have come to appreciate them more recently - at least the circa73 & later models.

Hi JC,hope all is well up on the home range with the rain and wind.!!
Found a 1976 piece on the MZ  in vmx mag #28 pg 35  8)
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on February 13, 2011, 11:35:53 PM
Sprite at ths UK Stafford classic bike show 18/10/10
(http://i55.tinypic.com/ictx92.jpg)

Amazing classic shows in the UK...if your heading that way  ;D  Did you go over VMX60 and if so is there anymore pics  :P  ;D  ??
http://www.classicbikeshows.com/
http://ausvmx.ning.com/photo/photo/listForContributor?screenName=2w1xa26p2gdvn&xg_source=activity
Shit there was some gear at this show..c&j/yammie real sweet,ksi,Greeves you name it money/bling dripping everywhere  :P
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: mike1948 on February 14, 2011, 05:58:31 PM
I'll be over there for the classic show at Easter, hope to pick up some good engine parts for my pre60 HJH.
Mike
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on March 04, 2011, 10:24:10 PM
Now here's one groovy American Eagle. This thing's a rolling time capsule with it's hot rod paint, snail pipe, Skunk inlet and Curnutts.....I love it. ;D
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/american%20Eagle%20trick.jpg)
1970 American Eagle with F81M greenstreak motor. Very trick skunk works intake,
beautiful snail pipe, curnutts again, zokes in the front. Not vintage legal
travel right now. $1200
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on March 05, 2011, 09:11:29 AM
Now there's an idea for yr F81M engine Mark. With 7/4" travel, it'd (nearly) be competitive.

Love the Skunk-style inlet manifold. Thats what those engines need. But don't go much for the snail pipe that protrudes down below the frame tho.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on March 05, 2011, 10:03:24 AM
Agreed John. The only thing preventing the F81 American Eagle being competitive is the weight of the frame. These things are damn heavy....twice the weight of the equivalent sized Hindall, indicating the truth of the frame being twice the wall thickness and mild steel rather than chro-mo. I'd be pretty certain that the stock Kawa frame would also be much lighter. I've got two frames, one (the better one) is definitely getting a 360 square barrel Maico engine to produce a Challinor Replica Maico/Sprite....the other frame's pretty sad, someone had fitted a Triumph 500 to it using angle iron engine mounts and a stick welder. Maybe one day I'll get to it....... ;)

The above bike had had some serious work done to it by someone who knew what he was doing. The LTR conversion appears to be well executed, the Skunk Works inlet was the hot ticket item for Kawa rotaries back in the day, and the Curnutt shocks and Marzocci (I think) forks are a definite 1975 era plus on the original stuff. The snail pipe Supertrapp muffler hanging below the frame rail can be easily fixed. The pipe seems to be similar to the snail pipe I had on my VR Monty back in the day...I can't remember the brand for the life of me (Maybe it was also made by Skunk Works ). The paint job is so early 70's it reignites my taste lapse genes :o. I had a similar Rick Pacey paint job on my Lobito. ;D
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: shorelinemc on March 05, 2011, 12:58:32 PM
this one is in washington state, near my mate if any one wants it
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on March 09, 2011, 11:56:15 PM
WWOOOOOHHHHOOOO She runs-real quiet 2 stroker too "GO the mighty Villiers" ;D He found the problem of cluth slipping while kicking it over,opened it up and it was full of automatic transmission fluid.  :(
Experenced in the past ATF causing clutch slipping best to use plain mc engine oil in primary cover..anyone else had this problem ??
cheers A 
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: mx250 on March 10, 2011, 07:52:33 AM
WWOOOOOHHHHOOOO She runs-real quiet 2 stroker too "GO the mighty Villiers" ;D He found the problem of cluth slipping while kicking it over,opened it up and it was full of automatic transmission fluid.  :(
Experenced in the past ATF causing clutch slipping best to use plain mc engine oil in primary cover..anyone else had this problem ??
cheers A 
(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/icons/smiley-happy085-1.gif)          8)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on March 10, 2011, 09:45:50 AM
At last another Sprite returns to life......Frank will be stoked. ;)
How about some photos of the finished product?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: bazza on March 10, 2011, 03:03:08 PM
Hay Al what bikes are you taking to C/d?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on March 10, 2011, 04:46:50 PM
Hay Al what bikes are you taking to C/d?

ummmm ,you'll have to ask young Davey Crocket on this forum  ;)  ;D 
cheers A&S WA
Title: Re: Does not ship to Aust
Post by: VMX247 on April 07, 2011, 11:13:48 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160565477316&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#shId
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: matcho mick on April 07, 2011, 11:28:26 PM
geezas,just ship it  to someone on the forum with a US address  ;D,bloody noice tank, :P
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Mick D on April 08, 2011, 12:07:05 PM
Re: Does not ship to Aust
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160565477316&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#shId

Bloody frustrating, to state the obvious. Would have been the "cherry on the icing". Make a saint swear, that one.

(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/KGrHqZiE1KJoQUsfBNkMSfvq-w_12.jpg?t=1302227632)

We have some sellers who refuse "point blank" to post, as well.

It can be OK, if you are a local bidder but.

I noticed once in "questions" a seller refusing requests to post. I smelt a bargain.

One piece Japanese "Teknics" race leathers, RRP-$1800. Come on down, mine for $61.
For exactly the same reason. "won't post".

Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: EML on April 08, 2011, 02:58:25 PM
Get in touch with shoreline on this thread, he has guys over there boxing stuff up.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Pommie Barstad on April 08, 2011, 06:24:37 PM
Fuel Tank:
Find/make/lookup a friend/contact in a reputable international shipping/delivery company in the USA (FedEx, et al). Explain exactly what you're doing & why you need to do it (so he doesn't think you're a drugs smuggler - not on this occasion anyway), have the part shipped to them to ship on to you via their company and that might work.
Worth a go?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: mx250 on April 08, 2011, 06:32:59 PM
(Thats what it looked like at 10/08/03 - I wonder what it looks like now :P).

Try Maicobuddy maicobuddy@yahoo.com for buying help within the USA  ;). I've used him with success - a good guy 8).
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on April 08, 2011, 06:43:48 PM
(Thats what it looked like at 10/08/03 - I wonder what it looks like now :P).

Try Maicobuddy maicobuddy@yahoo.com for buying help within the USA  ;). I've used him with success - a good guy 8).

When I found the tank ,it had 45 minute to go--needed direct line to US   ;)  ;D
I have got a blue one and was just being greedy for the quote:cherry :P
thanks A
shiiiiit just had a look what it sold for 257 aus.. :o   I got mine for less  ;D-- vintage gear is a good investment after all  ;D
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: HuskyPete on April 29, 2011, 11:42:51 AM
(http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy94/HuskyRacer/IMG_0016-1.jpg?t=1304041058)

(http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy94/HuskyRacer/IMG_0015-1.jpg?t=1304041349)

(http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy94/HuskyRacer/IMG_0066.jpg?t=1304048524)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on April 29, 2011, 11:56:49 AM
That American Eagle in Tom Whites collection is the equivalent to a wart on Elle McPhersons nose. ;D
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on May 04, 2011, 11:59:00 AM
Sprite founder Frank Hipkin has emailed me with comments on the American Eagle in Toms museum. Here's an excerpt from his email..........It's all about detail ;D
'regarding the 405 Eagle in Whites Museum of old motorcycles, as you are already aware of, that model is not true. The main thing wrong is a 2 gallon aluminium tank, the model should be in bright orange or blue Fiberglas, the seat is off the 405 or 250 CC fast back, 1971 onwards. Also the front mudguard would have been a steel chrome plated, would have a steel  bracket attached underneath the forks'

A FEW HOURS LATER:
I've just noticed that the American Eagle is also fitted with Ceriani forks instead of the original Sprite items.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: mx250 on May 07, 2011, 08:47:31 PM
(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/ads/MotorcyclePictures012.jpg)(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/ads/MotorcyclePictures013.jpg)

(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/ads/MotorcyclePictures011.jpg)(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/ads/MotorcyclePictures009.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on May 07, 2011, 09:02:10 PM
Have bird - check..will fly- check  ;D

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/talon.jpg)

Thanks mx250..nice adverts  8)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: flower pot racing on May 08, 2011, 05:12:54 AM
Sprite founder Frank Hipkin has emailed me with comments on the American Eagle in Toms museum. Here's an excerpt from his email..........It's all about detail ;D
'regarding the 405 Eagle in Whites Museum of old motorcycles, as you are already aware of, that model is not true. The main thing wrong is a 2 gallon aluminium tank, the model should be in bright orange or blue Fiberglas, the seat is off the 405 or 250 CC fast back, 1971 onwards. Also the front mudguard would have been a steel chrome plated, would have a steel  bracket attached underneath the forks'

A FEW HOURS LATER:
I've just noticed that the American Eagle is also fitted with Ceriani forks instead of the original Sprite items.

He may be an expert and it may well be a bike that he built, but I am more than happy to take anyones money who says they are Ceriani.  They are not.  They are MPs!  I have never ever ever seen Cerianis with a drain hole in the side  ~ ever (although I am no expert and continue to learn all the time.  Please correct me if I am wrong) .  In fact the only forks in that lovely Ceriani style with the drain on the side that I have ever seen, are ..... MPs!
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: flower pot racing on May 08, 2011, 05:14:07 AM
Sprite founder Frank Hipkin has emailed me with comments on the American Eagle in Toms museum. Here's an excerpt from his email..........It's all about detail ;D
'regarding the 405 Eagle in Whites Museum of old motorcycles, as you are already aware of, that model is not true. The main thing wrong is a 2 gallon aluminium tank, the model should be in bright orange or blue Fiberglas, the seat is off the 405 or 250 CC fast back, 1971 onwards. Also the front mudguard would have been a steel chrome plated, would have a steel  bracket attached underneath the forks'

A FEW HOURS LATER:
I've just noticed that the American Eagle is also fitted with Ceriani forks instead of the original Sprite items.

He may be an expert and it may well be a bike that he built, but I am more than happy to take anyones money who says they are Ceriani.  They are not.  They are MPs!  I have never ever ever seen Cerianis with a drain hole in the side  ~ ever.  In fact the only forks I have sene that do them like that are ..... MPs!

Mps are very similar in style to Cerianis but on this occasion I would have to say they are definately not Cerianis.    A beautiful bike non the less.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on May 08, 2011, 10:59:44 AM
That's my fork misdiagnosis not Franks Ben :-[. I bow to your well trained eye for detail mate. All I recognised was that they weren't Sprite forks. Frank's also emailed me to inform me of my f*#k up. It's not the first time I've confused Metal Profiles with Cerianis, much to my embarrassment. ;D
Here's a couple more shots of Toms American Eagle.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/resto30_2.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/resto30_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: mx250 on May 08, 2011, 06:34:23 PM
So, is that Tom's interpretation of an American Eagle or was there more than one model?

I see the tank, the forks, the black barrel and heads, and the wheels (hubs) as being different.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: flower pot racing on May 09, 2011, 12:00:45 AM
Sprite forks?  What are they Mark.....?

You learn something everyday, so please educate me.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on May 09, 2011, 09:21:21 AM
Sprite forks?  What are they Mark.....?

You learn something everyday, so please educate me.

pick me pick me ..I know  ;D  ;)  ;D  Norton telescope ,though mine have Cerianis too.  8)
cheers A
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on May 09, 2011, 12:16:44 PM
Ben, here's some guff from Frank Hipkin on Sprite forks.The comments on red over the blueprint are Franks.
Putting in a leaflet on the forks. The Yokes were cast with inserts to retain taper rollers bearings, also we cast groves in stead of machining. The nut with know air vent. We made our own oil seals. Damper tubes were forge, as you can see we a lot of changes.  Mark there is so much to remember.
Regards
Frank.

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/Forks.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: SAABCOMBI on May 09, 2011, 08:49:10 PM
67 Husky,  l sent you a message the other day but  with no reply, the question was  regarding my Dot, did you happen to see the bike on display at Tom Whites Museum. cheers 33m
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: cheapracer on May 21, 2011, 07:18:34 PM
Sprite was very successful during the late 60s with a lot of good wins in the UK with riders of the calibre of Terry Chalinor, Terry Ledbitter and Vic Eastwood racing them.

Hipkin; "All the motocross frames are made from 1.5mm, 1" diamter ERW tube"

Davey Crocket and TeeBone take note.

It never gave any problem at all within the drive train, every bike with the Ossa motor was like that out of square
hey guess what it doesn't matter what angle the motor is at as long as the sprockets lineup

Doesn't matter a toss, seen chains turn 90 degrees on some machinery over an appropriate distance. Interestingly though I have had to drum into my workers that Westerners will not accept those shenanigans or bad looking welds as it gives a perception of poor quality regardless if it's sound or not.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: paul on June 20, 2011, 09:16:14 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/American-Eagle-Sprite-/120739879003?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item1c1ca8585b
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on June 20, 2011, 10:17:15 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/American-Eagle-Sprite-/120739879003?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item1c1ca8585b


Thanks Paul...Dont see em too often.... Actually just had a look through my pics and Uncle Firko has posted this bike up in the previous pages on this thread,with Californian Palm trees in the back ground  ;D..
A steering stop to go plz  ;D
cheers A
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on June 21, 2011, 09:31:59 AM
Here she is a few years prevoius - thanks Firko for the US pic  8)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/eagle_sprite-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: SR 250 on June 22, 2011, 10:43:06 PM
They are a very nice bike, l saw the same model on USA ebay and l think its still their.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on July 01, 2011, 11:12:30 PM
Just got this photo from Robert racing back in the 70s in the USA taken off a slide his 250cc Eagle with sprite copy husky motor


(http://i55.tinypic.com/dgrxw5.jpg)

Cheers

Update from Robert

 Thanks for posting the pic. I still enjoy the thread and being involved a little.

 That's actually a 125 with Zundapp motor. It was slow with the usual 12 neutrals so we had Don Emler who went on to FMF fame, do the full engine mods. He worked for EC Birt and his  Precision Cycle at the time.  Did the shift mods, porting, head milled, bigger Bing carb, and a modified Suzuki race kit pipe. We also put on Preston Petty fenders, Akront rims, a Yam rear hub. and Curnutt shocks. A lot of work and expense but it was then not a bad bike for it's time.

 How'd your KONIs come out?   I recently found a place that does very high quality re-hard chroming to original or oversize, for $90 a shaft. Also we're in the process of hopefully getting original seals reproduced. 

 Best Regards, Robert Haag
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on July 01, 2011, 11:22:48 PM
http://www.grubinandcompany.com/page/page/4915642.htm

have look beneath the greeves griffon. A Tyran 400, looks very familiar
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on July 08, 2011, 09:52:34 PM
Hey  Tossa

Check out last Photo turns out its a Eagle Zundapp not the Husky copy 

Have you found a Zundapp motor yet??

Cheers :-[
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on July 09, 2011, 12:08:32 PM
Haven't touched it yet, waiting for the shed to built hopefully by the end of the month.  I beleive a barrel has been located for it.  Will start on it soon
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on July 29, 2011, 11:30:59 PM
Cotton eye Joe has  a few bits up for grabs  8)


http://motors.shop.ebay.com/Motorcycle-Parts-/10063/i.html?rt=nc&Part%2520By%2520Region=American&_catref=1&_dmpt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&_fln=1&_ssn=rockcotton&_ssov=1&_trksid=p4506.c0.m282

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/American-Eagle-Sprite-Alron-400-405-INTAKE-MANIFOLD-/350446549623?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item51983dfa77
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on August 29, 2011, 12:37:45 PM
#60 Alron underpower by Paul D...went really smooth and sounded even better  ;D

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/AlronpaulD.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on August 29, 2011, 10:54:59 PM
JC/Firko/Tossa

Allison photo of my son on the Alron which was racing in the Feature race at Wandering

Best of British

Against all of the big bore 4 strokes , first race placed 4th about a bike length off 3rd
Next race hit a tyre marker on the first lap bent the gearlever in half end of story

After 40 plus pages of good/bad/heap of shit  Mitch was right the Sprite frame kit were a good thing in 1973 with the right motor

Son had never ridden the Alron before just could not believe  how well it handled and goes like  f*** and it a 250 cc

(http://i54.tinypic.com/35c1phu.jpg)



(http://i55.tinypic.com/27zgiuu.jpg)



Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on August 30, 2011, 09:11:26 AM
Great stuff VMX60. Good to hear.

Does it have a phantom top end fitted or std SDR/Pioneer?
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on August 30, 2011, 09:59:45 AM
ok you still have my bike and should hand it back, it's a family heirloom!!!lol
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on August 30, 2011, 10:44:10 PM
JC/Tossa

My young bloke is still reving about how sweet the Alron handled   His words like a lightweight CZ

Letting a A grade rider loose on the bike does make Mitchs point the Sprite was a proven product from the early success in the 60s UK racing

After you posted that Alron Phantom Brochure which i still find maybe was never built in to a real life bike ??With all your research JC what do you think

Wandering just had to be a Phantom Alron

Still running SDR bottom end
SDR heavy flywheel to tame the revs
Phantom complete top end
Phantom spec pipe
38mm Mikuni carby

Long back straight tap out in 5th gear holding on to the big bore 4 strokes made my VMX year
Tossa tell dad the bike is in good hands

Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on August 30, 2011, 10:55:36 PM
phantom was never built and you my friend are having way too much fun with that bike!!lol
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on August 30, 2011, 11:11:17 PM
Tossa

Agree the Phantom was a ghost bike but has fired my VMX  ideas back up

Good luck at the Nats

Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on August 30, 2011, 11:37:30 PM
don't need luck, just alcohol.  I was at one point thinking of slipping a phantom into my Rickman zundapp frame, I reckon that would have been quite a bike
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on August 31, 2011, 12:10:58 AM
Tossa

Few years ago had Rickman/CZ half done then the Ossa thing happen

Sure would be a good combo plus another Ossa out there

Does the 125 have the small 32mm forks still a  project in the pipeline

Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: JC on August 31, 2011, 09:56:50 AM
I'm not the least bit surprised at the favourable comments re: the Alron's handling & performance w the Phantom top end, pipe & 38mm Mik.

The Phantom engine w 36mm Bing was unquestionably one of the fastest engines in the day.
And I've never had any reason to doubt Mitch's comment on the handling.

Its other things that I found rather dubious/questionable

Also, don't be too hasty in jumping to conclusions about the Alron MX model.  W'out being presumptuous, I think you'll find all will be revealed in due course in a certain glossy mag.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on August 31, 2011, 11:35:18 AM
JC

What I have built out of a combo of SDR/Phantom parts would have to be close to the only option Ron at Alron had to a true Ossa MX models as for having complete Phantom motors before 1974 in Perth ??

Hope the VMX mags Alron story  proves me wrong as that might help find more Alrons

Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on August 31, 2011, 12:14:46 PM
Murray, 36mm forks on the Metisse
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on August 31, 2011, 01:09:40 PM
Tossa

That is good news as you can fit any size motor into that roller. Most of the small cc rickmans had  32mm forks fitted

Ask around at the Nats for a motor I know Drakey and his friends had a heap of Ossa stuff out of Canberra to sell

Cheers

Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on August 31, 2011, 01:22:12 PM
Quote
Murray, 36mm forks on the Metisse
Are you sure? I was pretty sure they're 35mm Betors on the later model Micro Metisse (like my '74 1" tubing framed version). The 32mm triple clamps are the same casting as the larger 35mm clamps so they can be bored out to suit the bigger forks.
As far as fitting the OSSA motor goes....it should slip in like a cock in a sock. The little Rickman frame has an unusually large cradle that'll hold just about anything you'd want to fit in there. I've even seen a T100 Triumph engine in one. If my lumpy square barrel Maico 250 slips in the Ossa should be fine.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/maico%20metisse%20011.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: Tossa on August 31, 2011, 01:51:31 PM
you're  right Mark, i just remeasured them, was too quick this morning 35mm betors
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on September 11, 2011, 04:59:15 PM
Just posted on Youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YZbF3_951k

Alron 250cc racing at Wandering Feature Event

Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on December 19, 2011, 10:37:39 PM
I received this Christmas Greeting from Sprite founder Frank Hipkin
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/first20sprite.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: firko on December 19, 2011, 10:38:35 PM
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Picture048.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: EML on December 20, 2011, 08:58:34 AM
I would say a gray-muddy brown colour frome the looks of it. :D
Merry Xmas in WA guys.
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX60 on December 20, 2011, 01:24:40 PM
As a proud owner of a Spite/ Ossa that is still a race bike in competition

Merry Xmas Frank

I know your opinion of this Aussie attempt at back yard engineering and hope you have had a look at the Youtube clip as your Frame is still solid as a rock close to 40 years on

Thanks/Firko  :)

Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on December 22, 2011, 05:40:16 PM
1969
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/SprieKit69.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on January 29, 2012, 04:51:55 PM
The story goes, two American Eagle / Sprite / Zundapp 125's bikes came into Australia 8 odd years ago.The bikes at one stage went this business,so though I'd share the link.
I'm not promoting it ..just something different in good old  US of A - Montana..
Maybe a good spot for the "Picker" show to try out  ;D  :P
http://www.bikeboneyard.com/
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: bazza on January 29, 2012, 07:04:56 PM
good guys been there for years
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on February 18, 2012, 12:12:13 AM
Well it happened again over here in the West

Another OSSA/Alron 250 has been found a bloody mess lots of parts missing but the tank still has the correct Alron logo

Never say never  JC

Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on February 27, 2012, 08:25:21 PM
JC/Firko/Tossa

The long lost Blue Alron has been found and ID this w/end. We think this was the only one-off frame ever produced in Perth   :-\


(http://i44.tinypic.com/3507arn.jpg)



(http://i40.tinypic.com/245x941.jpg)




(http://i40.tinypic.com/33m7gif.jpg)




(http://i42.tinypic.com/255291l.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Tossa on February 27, 2012, 08:34:54 PM
Great find Murray
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: darren4867 on February 28, 2012, 12:27:08 PM
I have a NOS 405 engine I may consider selling if any one interested decent offers considered.Cant work out how to post pics any help welcome
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: darren4867 on February 29, 2012, 04:53:38 AM
(http://i1076.photobucket.com/albums/w446/darren4867/me066.jpg)(http://i1076.photobucket.com/albums/w446/darren486[IMG]http://i1076.photobucket.com/albums/w446/darren4867/me068.jpg)7/me067.jpg[/IMG](http://i1076.photobucket.com/albums/w446/darren4867/me069.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on March 08, 2012, 11:28:32 AM
Before
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/sprrite009.jpg)
three months later-February 2012 Telford Show UK ....Winner of Best Bike
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/SPRITEtelford004.jpg)
thanks Steve for photos. 8)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on April 16, 2012, 09:15:33 PM
always someone doing a rebuild somewhere...  8)
quote Paul B UK....The bike in its original state turned out tob be a 1967/68 sprite 360 mx,unfortunatly it had been mucked about with and made to look like a later 405. The frame had been modified with bits being added and other bits being cut off. The frame was also bent, not being sure what to do with the frame I rebiult the engine, repaired the tank and rebuilt the wheels. That was the year before last . This last febuary at the Telford vmx show I amazingly picked up the frame you see in the picture complete with most fixings, yokes, forks and front wheel for xxxx the seller at the swop meet did not know it was a 360 frame or even a Sprite. It had come over from America in a container with a load of bikes and bike bits, that he had imported sometime ago.
I decided not to restore the frame and rebuilt it as you see in the picture, I raced it last week end for the first time and went really well.  :)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/PualBarkerbefore.jpg)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/PaulBarkerUKredfinished.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: EML on April 17, 2012, 09:18:46 AM
Did he have the head on back-wards or do you?? Not sure if it should be coming or going :D
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: JC on May 01, 2012, 09:12:17 AM
JC/Firko/Tossa

The long lost Blue Alron has been found and ID this w/end. We think this was the only one-off frame ever produced in Perth   :-\


Murray, that is incredible! Almost staggering! Definitely an Oz-built frame.

I'm just catching up on the forum after months away & I'm amazed, to say the least, that the thread hasn't 'lit-up' over it.

Just about the find of the decade!

Is it in yr garage? Or belong to a friend/contact/acquaintance?

I'd love to see more pics
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on May 01, 2012, 10:52:14 AM
I'm just catching up on the forum after months away & I'm amazed, to say the least, that the thread hasn't 'lit-up' over it.

Good to see you back online JC..  8)
I "lit-up", I tracked him down and phoned "Mr Collect those Alron's Murray"  ;D
cheers A
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on May 01, 2012, 10:02:45 PM
John
 
Guy walked into sth west Yamaha dealer wants a Ossa motor for a Alron lucky the dealer got his phone number
So two of us VMX ossa owners go on the hunt 6mths of calls/text go unanswered we both give up Then that out of blue Sunday call by the other ossa guy gets the break drives 3hrs then finds a bare roller that the owner has been told is rare and the price is $3000 after a long afternoon he buys it for a lot less as there not a lot left to restore
 
Mitch/Barry think only one was made ????
 
Never say Never
 
Will send photos as the project progress
 
Murray
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on May 18, 2012, 09:05:44 PM
Just brought a few TWO WHEEL mags to get the Blue Alron test one of the other issues

February 1974 had this ad look at that classic lineup of brands plus Brian is riding a Alron   8)



(http://i49.tinypic.com/fw11c9.jpg)



No Jap brand bikes at all
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron
Post by: VMX247 on May 18, 2012, 09:16:11 PM
I've tracked down Brian Clarkson. He thinks he still may have his records from the shop at Granville. If he has (& can find it) he maybe able to  check how many Alrons he sold, but he lost a lot of paperwork in a flood a few months ago, so we maybe too late. He's fairly sure he sold "3 or 4 x400s" ("People liked their grunty power") & "2 x250s" - MXs). He says the 400's g'box wasn't any/much worse than the Husky's (which he rode for many yrs prior to the Alron) as far as he can recall but rings/pistons didn't last as long. Someone stole his 400 from a friends place at Bathurst. He sold lots of Rickmans for them too - mostly road ones but "quite a few VR-engine MXs" too. He knows nothing of the supposed Rickman 250 Enduro RL supposed built & "sold about 30" of.

Murray great to get old paper articles..good stuff  8)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on May 18, 2012, 09:49:52 PM
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/Newpaintjob.jpg)
This months progress for us.Thank you Red Alert just the best quality.  8)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on May 18, 2012, 10:03:33 PM
Just got three of these Iron ons out of the USA  ;D



(http://i48.tinypic.com/35kmtf9.jpg)




Rare find
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on May 18, 2012, 10:12:55 PM
Rare find..did you get a free Honda one thrown in also ?  :-\ 
Ebay sellers ~ some mothers do have em ..
You won anyway finding that Blue Gem  ;)  ;D  8)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on May 18, 2012, 10:18:21 PM
No free Honda iron ons   :)


Does that mean I got ripped off on Ebay  ::)   ::)   ::)

Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on May 25, 2012, 02:25:58 PM
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221031758772
Sweet as !!  8)  10/10
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on May 25, 2012, 03:51:53 PM
Nice bike but there's no way it's pre 65 legal.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on May 26, 2012, 12:23:35 AM
there's no way it's pre 65 legal.

Due to tank,sideplates and plastic mudguards ?
cheers A
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on May 26, 2012, 12:04:25 PM
Quote
Due to tank,sideplates and plastic mudguards ?
I had another look and it's legal Alison. Frank's a bit sketchy about when they first Starmaker motor in the Sprite which gave me doubts. All good now.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: GD66 on May 26, 2012, 12:35:59 PM
Still looks a bit too well-endowed in the rear shock travel dept, all the same...
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Iain Cameron on May 26, 2012, 02:42:13 PM
Dave well the motor is DT1 but the frame is not Yamaha from any that Ive seen . the triple clamps look Bultaco ish . front hub looks Dt1 . more photos please Dave
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Iain Cameron on May 26, 2012, 02:46:46 PM
Belay that about hubs, brake stay rules out DT1 .
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on May 26, 2012, 03:13:45 PM
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/SpriteVilliers-1.jpg)

Made in Birmingham UK Dave and yes its a Sprite kit frame ~Well done  :P


Last count from JC ~ Jan 2010
2 400 restored
2 400 rollers
1 400 missing lots of bits
TOTAL 5
3 250 OSSA complete
The blue bike is a 250 ossa that hasn't been found 
May have to up date this list VMX60  ;D
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on May 26, 2012, 03:56:43 PM
Dave, you've got an early 'pre fastback' Sprite/American Eagle frame with a DT1 Yamaha motor. I hate to spoil your excitement but the forks aren't Ceriani's, they're either REH or more likely Sprite forks which were a cheap knock off of REH. The best way of knowing is by pulling the triple clamps off the bike and seeing if they have a proper head stem (REH) or a bit of threaded rod (Sprite).The front hub is REH or possibly some Italian thing or other.
The Yamaha motor is a vast improvement on the Sprite engine that probably lived in there and probably better than the Villiers Starmaker too ;D. The problem with this engine swap is that the Sprite frame is a real heavyweight, much heavier than the DT1 frame, much like when I fitted an XL Honda motor into a Montesa King Scorpion lardmaster, way heavier than the original XL unit.

 I hope you didn'y pay too much mate ::)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on May 26, 2012, 05:07:08 PM
Terrific pickup Dave

The roller looks like it is all early Sprite even the DT motor is pre reed model

The pipe looks to me a cut up Montesa model   :-\


Im jealous as hell finding that Treasure  :)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on May 26, 2012, 05:33:21 PM
Dave

This would have to be close to the frame kit    ;D





(http://i50.tinypic.com/2meets5.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: pancho on May 26, 2012, 06:16:14 PM
 I'm confused,  Didn't DT1s have the 'enduro' twin plug head like the RT1?
pancho.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on May 26, 2012, 06:39:44 PM
Dave

The photo of the Sprite is label 1967

The DT1 had a blank plug next to the s/plug hole side by side    :-\

Cheers

Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Iain Cameron on May 26, 2012, 07:54:03 PM
Dave I think you will find the DT1 head is a later than 70 head as all the stock heads had twin plugs .
Iain
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on May 26, 2012, 11:24:38 PM
The engine/head all seems to be original piston port DT1 stuff. The more I look at the bike the more I like it Dave. I've got the exact same roller under the house which will eventually recieve a 360 Maico square barrel engine to build a replica of the '68 Sprite Maico raced by Terry Chalinor in the day. Frank Hipkin's given me the specs and encouragement to build it but it's about 5 down the current production line. The front hub has me bamboozled though. I thought they used a conical hub originally but Franks kit photo submitted by VMX60 shows it with a full width so what would I know??? ::)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on May 27, 2012, 12:00:08 AM
Firko

Maybe its a very early GYT  Yamaha kit top end single plug and that long inlet block to give a bit of pulling power

Wow might even have a chrome bore with the one ring piston Rare as ;D

Still love to have that in my shed

Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: JC on May 27, 2012, 09:18:49 AM
Excellent find Dave. I've often tho't - why doesn't somebody put a Yam engine in one of these Sprite frames?
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Iain Cameron on May 27, 2012, 11:07:06 AM
standard is two rings Dave .
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Iain Cameron on May 27, 2012, 11:45:05 AM
less drag and weight , though two ring are more effective for comp over a longer time like in road or trail use but for race where a motor is rebuilt quite often single is better .
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on May 27, 2012, 01:32:58 PM
To me it looks like you may have struck gold Dave. The best way of telling a GYT barrel externally from a stocker is that the stocker has cast in "towers" cast in between the fins while the GYT doesn't have the castings. This can be seen in the photo below...the centre cylinder is a genuine GYT and the two outer are standard enduro versions. The single ring piston is a GYT item as is the fatter carb manifold insulator. The GYT head should have one plug centrally located and sitting upright, the head on Daves motor seems to have the plug at an angle indicating that it's from an Enduro model. The odd thing is there only being one plug hole. I just double checked on my restored very early DT1 and it's got two plug holes.
           (http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/barrels.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on May 27, 2012, 02:01:17 PM
Sprite founder Frank Hipkin sent me these shots earlier in the week, the captions are his. He regularly lurks the forum, this thread especially for obvious reasons ;). I'm slowly putting together an in depth look into the Sprite/American Eagle/Alron yarn. My crappy health problems over the last year or so have put it on the backburner but hopefully I'll be getting back into it again before long. We're hoping to combine it with JC's excellent work on the Alron portion of the story for the definitive piece on the marque and its fiesty creator.
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/545.jpg)
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/542.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on May 27, 2012, 02:17:13 PM
Quote
Mark this a birds eye view of the head
Solid Gold Dave ;D.....The head's a genuine GYT so the engine seems to be a GYT or MX version going by what we can  see (the cylinder, head and carby insulator). Someone's done it right back in the day with the exception of that fugly pipe. If it's made for a Hodaka 125 it'll be all wrong for the DT1. A GYT pipe would be the perfect period piece for it. Or Bassani,Hooker or Torque Industries items from the day.

If When you sell this bike Dave I'd like first shot at it.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on May 27, 2012, 02:47:19 PM
Mystery Head:
Something bothered me about the head on Daves Sprite/DT1 that required me take a trip out to the shed for some detective work. I've just come in from examining all 3 of my GYT heads,  discovering that all of them have two plugs as shown in the head on the centre barrel in my photo a few posts ago, one upright in the centre of the combustion chamber and the other at 45 degrees pointing towards the front. If Dave's is a genuine Yamaha item, we've opened up another chapter in the weird and wacky world of GYT parts. One explanation might be that besides the differences between chrome and iron barrels on DT1MX and DT1-GYT engines, there might be a difference in heads as well. If not, where does the single plug GYT head fit into the picture?
Quote
have you found a YZ125 A tank yet.I tried to call you before.
I may have found one thanks to another forum member. The phone's been busy as hell this morning.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: EML on May 27, 2012, 04:08:31 PM
Is it a bit like the single ring piston-motocross use only-I mean, you don't gat alot of oppurtunity to swap plugs leads during a moto do you?-unlee you ride a CZ :D
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on May 27, 2012, 05:15:54 PM
Dave

Told you this was a Golden Treasure with a GYT kit   PURE GOLD


NEVER SAY NEVER

When you can still find bikes like this

Firko your a lucky man to have 1st  offer on this one   :D

Cheers

In my stock i have a gen GYT up pipe brand new will post Photo when i can dig it out
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: bazza on May 27, 2012, 08:10:14 PM
Dave is "green machine a keeper"? Whats with the Avatatr name changes? just curious
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on May 27, 2012, 09:02:47 PM
Quote
I have just notice that the DT1 engine has Left and right gear change shaft, is this normal for this model.
Yeah, the shaft goes right through with a spline on either side. My little DT1 flat tracker is set up for right foot change.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on May 29, 2012, 02:14:14 PM
I got this self captioned photo attached to a lovely 'Get Well' message from Frank Hipkin this morning. Frank's getting over a broken foot himself, received when his foot slipped off the peg while riding his late model KTM 250. Not too shabby for an old fella well into his 70's. He still works and spends most weekends at his 'Cold Green Farm' doing whatever it is farmers do and riding. Methinks he should restore one of his Sprite models for something to do!! ;D.
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/ColdGreenFarmSunDay27thMay.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Tahitian_Red on May 30, 2012, 07:36:55 AM
Mystery Head:
Something bothered me about the head on Daves Sprite/DT1 that required me take a trip out to the shed for some detective work. I've just come in from examining all 3 of my GYT heads,  discovering that all of them have two plugs as shown in the head on the centre barrel in my photo a few posts ago, one upright in the centre of the combustion chamber and the other at 45 degrees pointing towards the front. If Dave's is a genuine Yamaha item, we've opened up another chapter in the weird and wacky world of GYT parts. One explanation might be that besides the differences between chrome and iron barrels on DT1MX and DT1-GYT engines, there might be a difference in heads as well. If not, where does the single plug GYT head fit into the picture?
Quote
have you found a YZ125 A tank yet.I tried to call you before.
I may have found one thanks to another forum member. The phone's been busy as hell this morning.

Firko,

In the photos from this thread the GYT head seems to have only one plug or is it my aging eyesight?

http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=14473.0

 ;D
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on May 30, 2012, 10:31:38 AM
Quote
In the photos from this thread the GYT head seems to have only one plug or is it my aging eyesight?
Hmmmmm, so they do. So, that opens up a new situation as to the differences between twin plug and single plug GYT heads (besides the obvious ::) ) and what engine configuration either came on.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on May 30, 2012, 11:58:47 AM
Frank's replied to my querie as to the origin of the forks and front hub on Daves bike....I was right ;D
" The forks are REH. The Hubs are British HuB in Birmingham. The early hubs were Finned fully. Then we machined most of them away, only leaving one fin. Because of the cast insert on the brake side".
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on June 11, 2012, 02:57:39 PM
This is on Marks Swapmeet today. It's exactly what I'm intending to do with my own Sprite/American Eagle.
http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/largephoto.cgi?C=KCwzXk4vVkbKh3oM&w=2 (http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/largephoto.cgi?C=KCwzXk4vVkbKh3oM&w=2)
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/spriteMaico.jpg)
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/spritemaico2.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: tony27 on June 11, 2012, 04:51:25 PM
I wondered if you'd see that Firko, got sent photos of it by Steve-the guy with a great collection in the Taranaki which was in the VMX magazine.
Suggested he try contacting you & to look for this thread. Let me know if you'd like his contact details
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on June 11, 2012, 04:59:13 PM
Tony, I've sent the ad on to Frank Hipkin, the Sprite founder hoping he can enlighten the owner (and us) on the bike. To my limited knowledge Sprite Maicos are pretty rare, being released only in 1968 and only in 360cc which gives me a hint that this 250 powered Sprite might be a home made conversion. Let's wait and see what Frank has to say ;).
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Hoony on June 11, 2012, 05:46:53 PM
Hope i can ride like that well into my 60's let alone well into my 80's.

How cool is that !
 
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/ColdGreenFarmSunDay27thMay.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: frankiexc on June 12, 2012, 01:48:30 AM
Hi all,
I too have a sprite 405 complete apart from brake cables, been working on it for over 5 years on and off, have a spare frame and Engine minus crank and ignition parts. So since reading the posts on here I am now confused as to what should I do regarding my engine, should I run it or go buy something more reliable. I want to race it but not sure the 405 will take much abuse. Does anyone know where I could find a rod kit for the 405 and piston?

Thanks for reading my post and also for the great info you have all provided.

Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on June 12, 2012, 01:58:57 PM

Frank replied regarding the NZ Sprite Maico on Marks Swapmeet. Below is his take on the situation which doesn't quite put a certainty on the bike being a genuine factory item. My guess is that it might be a kit bike to which someone fitted a squarie Maico 250 motor. That particular engine has a circa 1971 ignition cover which complicates things even more ::). It's inspired me to get into my own proposed Maico Sprite project. I've got correct '67 360 square barrel engine and the right early frame...even though it's been to hell and back by some butcher fitting a Triumph motor using angle iron and a stick welder ::).
Hi Mark.
Well Mark from what I am reading it looks like you are back with us, and especially the one with the solar panel best yet...     ( Mark I think you a little out with my age, I was born in 1937.)
 
1   The Sprite frame with Maico engine in.   Were mainly 360cc, as you can probably realise we didn't make many.  I used to buy the engines from Bolton motorcycles in Bolton UK. They used to buy them from Maico in Germany in Kit form..... We use to wait till they could build 15/20,At a time I wouldn't like to have a guess.... As you probably guessed we sold a lot of Frame kits less engines.(We may have had 2/3 250cc to test.)
At the time the new seen was the 500cc class, personally I would have thought that year would have been 1967...

2  I would like to point out that Dave Smith loved it ...... Terry Challinor frighten him, he could never Start it, Terry you would have is two mechanics one driving the car, they would have a tow rope onto the ball tied to the handlebars, the one mechanic would take off the rope allowing terry to get to the line, it was quite funny really ..... John Hale..... My frame builder was a top championship rider in the AMCA, There was a lot sold to the AMCA, John was a past master at starting the big maico, then John would be obliged to start them.


Regards.. Frank.

(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/terry360cc.jpg)
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/johnhale360cc.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on June 13, 2012, 12:10:18 PM
Here's a cool shot of big Dave Smith on the works Sprite/Maico 360 making it look like a little 125. He must have been a big dude. :o Note different ignition cover to that on the NZ barn find bike.
It looks like Roger Daltry from the Who in the background wearing the pea coat!
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/CCF25022010_00000.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: sudman on June 13, 2012, 03:34:30 PM
This from Steve the owner.

Hi there mark and thanks for helping me with this old dirt bike, It looks like its a late 60's sprite frame with a 250 maico mounted into it at some stage, So ill restore it as it is with this engine as who ever done it has made a brilliant job of the bronze welding, But on a closer look it does look like its had this motor fitted.
Would love to locate a tank and seat plus what front hub was used ??
U can contact me direct on stevegallichan@me.com

Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on June 13, 2012, 04:52:58 PM
Thanks Sudman, tell Steve I'll drop him an email in a day or so. In the meantime, Sprites are reasonably rare down here in NZ and Oz so there's nobody dealing in parts. Luckily this bike's got a Maico motor so parts are easy to find and comparitively cheap compared to Brit stuff. The best place to find Sprite parts are on US eBay under the American Eagle search banner or UK eBay under Sprite or REH. The front hub is an REH, used by a number of Brtitish makers.  If you don't do the eBay thing you're in deep shit for bits I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: frankiexc on June 13, 2012, 06:12:59 PM
My Sprite project
(http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/Fcrighton/Sprite.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on June 13, 2012, 08:49:13 PM
Frankiexc cool starter where are you going to take it for a ride??.   Greenmachine ill be the second taker/buyer after Firko if it becomes a seller.cheers a
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: frankiexc on June 13, 2012, 09:05:21 PM
Hi VMX247,
I hope to get out soon, maybe even the upcoming wa meet if I can get brake cables made, do you know anyone in the Perth area who could help me out?
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on June 13, 2012, 11:00:55 PM
Hi VMX247,
I hope to get out soon, maybe even the upcoming wa meet if I can get brake cables made, do you know anyone in the Perth area who could help me out?
try Ray Eason at Motorcycle Engineering perth.someone on here will have his #.Next vmxwa event is Darkan Speedway Track venue.cheers a
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: EML on June 14, 2012, 08:01:09 AM
 Greenmachine ill be the second taker/buyer after Firko if it becomes a seller.cheers a
[/quote]
Isn't it time you got a sidecar Ali, that Steve is looking older and older(not) every time I see him and he'll certainly need one soon.
Think of the loverly family outings you could have on one too, a 6hr enduro a 12hr or even the mighty 24hr right in the middle of Sth Aust in the very middle of winter-that would beat a cool night in Sth East Qld (waiting for presentation) any day :D :D
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on June 14, 2012, 03:09:46 PM
So since reading the posts on here I am now confused as to what should I do regarding my engine, should I run it or go buy something more reliable. I want to race it but not sure the 405 will take much abuse. Does anyone know where I could find a rod kit for the 405 and piston?

I'd be keeping the 405 for another day,being a kit framed bike we have seen:Ossa's,Husky Clones,Starmakers/Villiers and Macio's engines in the frame.
I'm wondering what else would fit..?
cheers A
Gee Green machine that was quick !
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on June 14, 2012, 03:31:39 PM
Not interested any more....no wonder why ::).
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: frankiexc on June 14, 2012, 04:08:53 PM
I have a complete sprite frame that i would consider selling if it helped a needy cause
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on June 14, 2012, 04:38:27 PM
Quote
Firko wanted the frame only,
That's not true and you know it Dave. I wanted the whole bike but you said that you wanted to keep the GYT motor. I was happy to take the roller as you offered it to me, I could fit my Maico engine but you seem to have forgotten your own words that I could have first go at it. Seeing that you've reneged on the deal Dave, you can stick it where the sun doesn't shine ;).
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: bazza on June 14, 2012, 07:06:55 PM
time you were yz boy not green machine if your selling the kawasaki dave. Another "keeper" goes,and the sprite, feck i cant keep up.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Simo63 on June 14, 2012, 08:07:05 PM
What class is this bike eligible for?
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: GD66 on June 14, 2012, 09:00:35 PM
Hi VMX247,
I hope to get out soon, maybe even the upcoming wa meet if I can get brake cables made, do you know anyone in the Perth area who could help me out?
try Ray Eason at Motorcycle Engineering perth.someone on here will have his #.Next vmxwa event is Darkan Speedway Track venue.cheers a


Ray Easson 08 9272 8466
160 Beechboro Road,
Bayswater 6053. ;)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Simo63 on June 14, 2012, 09:09:01 PM


Offers are off, 1 hour time limit is over, you had your chance to make me an offer, the DT1/Sprite is not for sale end of story.

Sorry is it now not for sale or is it going on ebay as you said before?
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on June 14, 2012, 09:46:46 PM
Quote
Waiting on the offer Mark, Mark you already have a frame, why do you what another sprite frame.
Dave..Get it right FFS, I wanted the whole bike or at least the roller, as per our deal. All I've got is a frame that needs a fair bit of work, you've got a complete bike with all the stuff I needed. 

Dave I stuck up for you when others were laying shit into you but now I realise that friendship comes second to the dollar with you. Sell your fu*king bike on eBay mate. I hope it makes you a happy man. ::)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Iain Cameron on June 14, 2012, 11:11:25 PM
Dave do you want a dt or rt frame ? I have both . Iain
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: SPANISH ARMADA on June 15, 2012, 10:36:36 AM
Alls very quiet here today on the sprite scene fire has burnt down smoke has cleared but still smouldering :D :D :D u blokes crack me up lookout the dumbgeon is getting close  :D :D
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on June 15, 2012, 12:25:53 PM
No dumgeon stuff from me Spanish. I was merely pointing out to Dave that he'd promised me first dibs on the bike and that I wasn't impressed with him going against his word by threatening to put it on eBay.

I've got more than enough projects to keep me well into old age but I like the idea of building a Sprite Maico so if you've still got it Dave, I'll offer you an honest $500. Remember, I know how much you paid for it. If it's not a high enough offer bad luck, I'm not getting into a bidding war so sell it to one of the "many others" who've approached you.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on June 16, 2012, 04:00:26 PM
I made my offer to Dave but he refused it and he's now opted to keep the bike.  ::) I've got enough interesting projects to keep me occupied without playing the bidding war game. I'm over it already :-*
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: sudman on June 18, 2012, 01:53:47 PM
From Steve

Yo can u let firko i have located a american eagle/Sprite in usa and he has a spare frame.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on June 18, 2012, 09:30:34 PM
Thanks Sudman but with health issues slowing the progress on my current projects I think it'd be unwise to get involved in another hot rod bike until I've both got better and then cleared up the project backlog. I normally build two new bikes a year but being sick has slowed the process to a crawl. I got my Cheney ready to take to the Nats and the Hindall RT2MX is close but I need to finish my flat tracker and the rebuild on the 'DT1 from Hell' for CD9. Then it's back into the Maico Metisse and TRIBSA projects so it'd be unfair to deprive someone else of the Sprite frame right now.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: monte34 on June 21, 2012, 09:13:07 PM
Bad luck to anyone who had been bidding on "Green Machines" Sprite. The listing for the bike with motor has been removed and relisted as just a roller.
What a waste >:(
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: bazza on June 24, 2012, 08:18:25 AM
what else would you expect from"its a keeper" dave
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: monte34 on June 24, 2012, 10:16:55 AM
Just to keep everyone guessing, it later reappeared with the DT motor again!  ???
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: bazza on June 24, 2012, 11:54:06 AM
yep "green machine" used to be in indesisive, now hes not sure
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: 09.0 on June 24, 2012, 01:31:13 PM
I would have thought firko would know better.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on June 25, 2012, 12:01:42 PM
Quote
I would have thought firko would know better
He does now ::).
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on July 16, 2012, 03:00:45 PM
JC/Firko/Tossa

What a w/end on the Blue Alron front

First of, due to the Generosity of Frank on this forum we now have his nearly complete spare Sprite rolling frame which was over here in the Perth Metro 

Before you ask Firko the rare Sprite Alloy sidecover are in VGC
The only parts missing are the brake plates . Hope we can find maybe REH/Rickman/Sprite to fit

So thats close to winning Lotto part one

Next Cyclegod posted the Gumtree ad of the SDR for sale again in the Perth Metro which is the very motor model used in the 1973 writeup of the Alron down to the correct Amal carby plus the SDR pipe is also what was fitted UNBELIEVABLE   ;D

What a positive for this forum as this would have never happen at any odds
Just as a side note, looks like the SDR is a ex Ray Ryan bike
For my part  Helping out a fellow VMXWA member has been very rewarding as now this piece of Aussie history will be restored
The Photo below is all we started with

Thanks Guys   8)



(http://i47.tinypic.com/2qve1bm.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: cyclegod on July 16, 2012, 03:27:52 PM
Next Cyclegod posted the Gumtree ad of the SDR for sale again in the Perth Metro which is the very motor model used in the 1973 writeup of the Alron down to the correct Amal carby plus the SDR pipe is also what was fitted UNBELIEVABLE   ;D

I take it that you bought that very well priced gem  ;)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on July 16, 2012, 03:43:02 PM
Yes  Both bikes were paid for and pickup on the w/end buy the owner of the Blue Alron

Thanks  Again    ;D
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Tossa on July 16, 2012, 04:25:12 PM
Some things are just meant to happen.  I gather the photo is of the spare sprite frame
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on July 16, 2012, 04:58:47 PM
Tossa

No thats the Blue Alron frame along way from being a runner

Murray
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Tossa on July 16, 2012, 05:11:43 PM
I thought bill had already cleaned that up and was working on the swing arm
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on July 16, 2012, 05:17:17 PM
Tossa

The Photo is as the bike was found before any work was done   :)

Murray

Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on July 16, 2012, 09:42:39 PM
Good work Murray, they've gone to a great new home I'm sure. Those ally side covers are like hens teeth ;)
I'm about to sell my early series Sprite frame to another forum member for him to fit his oval 250 Maico motor for pre 65 so there's another one that'll eventually hit the track. I've still got a later fastback frame and my mate Jonesy has a genuine one off experimental Sprite frame with original lay down shocks currently on the docks in England awaiting a ship to the lucky country.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: albrid-3 on July 16, 2012, 10:22:18 PM
Well the sprite is on its way to a good home to be restored, we loaded it up tonight, he is a fine young man and he is very happy with his new project.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: EML on July 17, 2012, 08:01:38 AM
What about the SDR-they are as rare as-but not as rare as the Sprite I 'spose :D
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: JC on July 17, 2012, 08:40:18 AM
Well done Murray & co.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on July 21, 2012, 03:48:30 PM
Wandering Millfarm last year !!  8)  8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YZbF3_951k
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: oldfart on July 21, 2012, 04:00:18 PM
Appears  the exhaust is hanging low.... lap 3
impressive ride all the same.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: dfisher on August 05, 2012, 10:26:32 AM
New Ebay listings.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-American-Eagle-405-Sprite-ahrma-vintage-race-motocross-mx-/160858238358?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item2573e5ed96#ht_564wt_1165

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-American-Eagle-Zundapp-125-ahrma-vintage-race-Sprite-mx-motocross-/160858224997?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item2573e5b965#ht_500wt_1182

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-American-Eagle-Kawasaki-f21m-green-streak-238-ahrma-vintage-race-motocross-/160858231708?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item2573e5d39c#ht_500wt_1182
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on August 06, 2012, 12:16:23 PM
WOW
A fleet of Sprites now that is rare love to buy the Kawa green-streak Nice

Ken hows yours coming along   :P

Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: vmxken on August 06, 2012, 01:41:24 PM
Run out of resto funds at the moment, though it will be next on the list.  Next year.

Regards

Ken
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on August 20, 2012, 11:23:06 PM
Firko/JC/Frank

Sprite Question

The Early sprite frame that was found over here in Perth has a Frame number 3117 any idea what year or model motor this came out with from the UK

Also was there a official NZ importer of sprite motorcycles

Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: JC on August 21, 2012, 09:56:43 AM
I can't help much Murray. All the frames I came across were 7000 nos, circa 1973/74. So thats about halfway thro the prod'n run between circa '63 & '73.


On another note, I did come across a news item in Jul/Aug 89 Classic Racer announcing "pre65 Sprite Scrambler" frame kits, "replica of 63-68 Sprite frames, to suit Starmaker, T100, Maico & CZ engines".
Built by Fred Giles, Workhouse Corner, Cornwall.

Ring any bells, Mark?
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on August 22, 2012, 03:55:59 PM
You'd have to really, really want this tank ::). I gave a better one than this to a fellow forum member.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/american-eagle-405-alron-405-gas-tank-ahrma-/150625895126?hash=item231200c2d6&item=150625895126&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/american-eagle-405-alron-405-gas-tank-ahrma-/150625895126?hash=item231200c2d6&item=150625895126&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: mainline on August 22, 2012, 06:51:04 PM
You'd have to really, really want this tank ::). I gave a better one than this to a fellow forum member.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/american-eagle-405-alron-405-gas-tank-ahrma-/150625895126?hash=item231200c2d6&item=150625895126&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/american-eagle-405-alron-405-gas-tank-ahrma-/150625895126?hash=item231200c2d6&item=150625895126&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr)

did you need it back?
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on August 22, 2012, 10:48:13 PM
You'd have to really, really want this tank ::). I gave a better one than this to a fellow forum member.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/american-eagle-405-alron-405-gas-tank-ahrma-/150625895126?hash=item231200c2d6&item=150625895126&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/american-eagle-405-alron-405-gas-tank-ahrma-/150625895126?hash=item231200c2d6&item=150625895126&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr)
looks a bit short and cant find a simalor 405 tank picture. Yes pricey!
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on August 23, 2012, 07:20:47 AM
Quote
did you need it back?
Nah mate, I've got enough stuff cluttering my life as it is. enjoy!
Quote
looks a bit short and cant find a simalor 405 tank picture. Yes pricey!
Keep looking Alison, it's the optional 1.5 gallon jobby.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: TM BILL on September 06, 2012, 05:59:42 AM
http://forums.mxtrax.co.uk/showthread.php/329629-Frank-Hipkin-of-Sprite-Motorcycle-Fame-Passed-Away
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on September 06, 2012, 09:55:35 AM
RIP thanks for adding to Australian dirt bike history, Frank.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on September 06, 2012, 01:13:09 PM
Sad news

This thread has 56 pages and 55000 views which Frank followed via Firko with a few posts
Hope the Sprite will take their place in Motorcycle History. One man thinking outside the box around the World with his Special Bikes

RIP Frank
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Tossa on September 06, 2012, 06:20:08 PM
RIP Frank

Have you guys seen the introduction thread???
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on September 15, 2012, 09:57:22 PM
Never seen this writeup before

(http://i47.tinypic.com/2mxjr5y.jpg)





Firko this goes back to page 22 when Frank changed to the radially fin heads on the copy Husky 250cc April 1970
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: MXOFFROADER on September 18, 2012, 02:30:03 AM
I have a 125 Hodaka powered American Eagle. Does anyone know how many of these were made?
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: bazza on September 18, 2012, 07:04:05 AM
does a hodaka have enough power to pull a water pipe  sprite frame around?
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on September 18, 2012, 08:57:32 AM
I have a 125 Hodaka powered American Eagle. Does anyone know how many of these were made?

No,being a kit frame they mostly had Husky clone, Ossa,Zundapp,Kawa and other assortment engines in.List is long and varied.
Yous is the first Hodaka Ive heard of.
Any photos?
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on September 18, 2012, 09:58:57 AM
I've never heard of a Hodaka powered American Eagle either and I've been researching them for a few years. Does your frame have twin top tubes of a single tube (in other words, is it an early frame or the later 'fastback' frame)? Most 125 Sprites I've seen had Sachs or Zundapp power so the Hodaka engine's probably an improvement. ::)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: MXOFFROADER on September 18, 2012, 10:20:39 AM
Here are the pics-I hope
(http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd411/mxoffroader/NM0021.jpg)
(http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd411/mxoffroader/NM0014.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on September 18, 2012, 12:02:06 PM
Wow a Hodie Eagle

Never seen a  Sprite/Eagle with that combo

What model motor

Ace100

Super rat MX that would be rare

Something new every day   ;D
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: MXOFFROADER on September 18, 2012, 12:40:29 PM
The motor # starts with EH, which I belive makes it a Wombat (not a Combat Wombat) motor.
 (http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd411/mxoffroader/NM0023.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on September 18, 2012, 12:58:49 PM
 
Quote
does a hodaka have enough power to pull a water pipe  sprite frame around?
It's a fastback frame which is a shitload lighter than the early waterpipe monstrocity (sadly, I can say such things now without the fear of a follow up nasty email from Frank, i miss the old bugger already :'(). It's still comparitively heavy though, being made for a 250/400.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: bazza on September 18, 2012, 05:02:03 PM
interesting food peggs but a good looking bike
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: JC on September 19, 2012, 08:35:04 AM
I have/had (might have given it to a mate when shifting house) a Dirt Bike mag w an article on Lee Fabry's collection which showed a pic of such a bike he owned in mint condition, w the caption, "Just another Hodaka-powered American Eagle... Another what?"

Thats the only place I'd ever heard of them too.

Sure looks nice, but don't you love the footpeg!
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on September 19, 2012, 09:15:37 AM
w the caption, "Just another Hodaka-powered American Eagle... Another what?"

57 pages,JC still got a memory  :)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/American%20Eagle%20Hodaka_zps94dcf2de.jpg)
Yes those footpegs are standard items  :)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: sudman on September 19, 2012, 10:41:48 AM
Nice
 ;D
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on September 19, 2012, 11:21:59 AM
MX

Do you know the History of the Hodie/Sprite

The only part that does not look like a Sprite kit part are the fork legs  35mm betor ? with the clamp on brake arm  The top tree are Sprite

Like JC/vmx247 the only Photo I have was the one in the above post

Bit of local History on the Hodie tried to race a super rat  yellow/orange model to get sales up and running.Rider said the motor was fast but the bloody gearbox never lasted a whole race day after lots of gearbox repairs as the gears where press fit we giveup the state distributer of the Hodaka brand

Cheers

Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: MXOFFROADER on September 19, 2012, 11:41:02 AM
VMX60

No I don't know the history, I originally thought that a previous owner had removed the original (Husky clone) engine and substituted the Hodaka engine. But after close inspection it appears that all the motor mounts are original. The pink slip seems to confirm that it is a stock bike. Well with the exeption of the Can-Am Betors, Curnutt shocks, handelbars, fenders and seat cover the rest of the bike appears stock.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on September 19, 2012, 11:50:01 AM
It appears to be the exact same bike as the Lee Fabry bike, pointing to the probability that it may be the one and only Hodaka powered American Eagle.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: MXOFFROADER on September 19, 2012, 12:02:28 PM
Yes, Lee owned the bike but had sold it before the Dirt Bike magazine article, his buddy brought it over for the photoshoot. When I went to look at it, an ad in a throwaway paper (Pennysaver) I was expecting a Zundapp powered bike with a nickle plated frame. To get the bike a had to buy the other two bikes, a package deal. A Rickman Hodaka and a N.O.S. 125 Tyran. I'm glad I did back in 1990.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on September 19, 2012, 01:03:12 PM
MX

Maybe a Eagle factory go at a schoolboy racer with a Hodie motor being so popular in USA.  Frank had sold in the UK powered by the sachs and other motors earlier on Schoolboy racers


A one off Hodie/Sprite with a matching Rickman/Hodie   ;D


Cheers

Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on September 20, 2012, 10:29:17 AM
What year we looking at, early 70's ?
cheers A
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: MXOFFROADER on September 20, 2012, 11:51:01 AM
VMX247

The bike was first sold 12-21-74 (original pink slip). I spoke with Lee Fabry today, he owned the bike before me, he has no solid history of this bike. There is an uncomfirmed story of the U.S. importers fitting the engine. There is a 125 Hodaka Sprite Avenger trials bike. It has the same tank, swingarm and other frame design features. When I got this bike I was sure that a previous owner had removed the original engine so I bought a Sprite Husky clone engine so restore the bike to it's original condition!!??
It was 10 years after I bought it and I had misplaced the pink slip. I was cleaning out a desk and the pink slip fell out of a Bultaco owners manual. The Hodaka engine number is on the pink so I quickly abandonded any plans to replace the engine. Anyone looking for a 400 Sprite engine core? I just about screwed this bike up. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than smart.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on September 20, 2012, 12:11:11 PM
MX

Great piece of Eagle/Sprite History on your USA side of the Sprite story.  Saving a true part of MX rarer one off bikes

Lucky to own the Hodie/Sprite as people forget the History of these smaller cc bikes that most started their riding days on

My own Alron/Ossa 250cc fastback frame has its place in the downunder Sprite story   ;D

Think the Fastback frame models first year ?? 1973/4

Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on September 20, 2012, 12:28:19 PM
I'm pretty certain that this bike wouldn't have left England with the Hodaka motor. I doubt it if Frank Hipkin would ever have seen a Hodaka motor let alone use one in his bikes so it's be pretty certain to have been done by McCormacks or maybe Mitsubishi (whoever was distributing them at the time it was made). Frank was never very impressed with the American Eagle use of a Kawasaki engine and was flabbergasted (love that word) by the uniquely offset "fit" of the OSSA motor in the Alron. He wasn 't all that impressed with the 360 Maico/Sprite combination either. It might be bias but he seemed to be only happy with his own motored Sprites....understandable as it put him out of the kit bike category and into the world of being a 'complete manufacturer'. One thing for sure, the little Hodaka powered Sprite is without doubt one of the prettiest Sprite/Alron/American Eagles. The motor looks ike it's mean't to be there.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: MXOFFROADER on September 20, 2012, 12:53:16 PM
Another McCormack Hodaka Spite/A-E/Alron/BVM?? A trials bike.
(http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd411/mxoffroader/SpriteAvengera_zpsbd6ffc8f.jpg)
(http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd411/mxoffroader/SpriteAvengerb_zpsda5f7d84.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on September 20, 2012, 01:17:43 PM
More of the same.....I reckon the Sprite Hodie trials bike to be a one off R&D experiment, looking for a possible extra market using a locally procured engine. Here below is a nicely over restored Villiers powered Sprite trials bike and the frame showing the differences between it and the MXer.


                      (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/spritetrials5_zps3d147cbb.jpg)
                     
                      (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/spriteframe_zpsb03b17f1.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: ste2hip on September 25, 2012, 01:43:52 AM
 Hi guys my name is steve hipkin son of frank .Dad loved reading this forum and how much you guys liked his bikes so thankyou from the hipkins.
   the womat was sent to dad from a canadian oil/gas company to fit into a sprite frame . so one was done not hard really as sprite as you know was a frame kit to take many many different engines .the oil company orderd 150 at 75 a time these machines were not for competition but getting there engineers to isolated pipes off the beaten track out in the sticks .paul my older brother says he can remember the engine sitting in the comp shop for years and even tried fitting the wombat air cover to his kawasakie 250 sprite which he was one of the first to have one at the age of 15 ;) i hope this helps ???. you and again thanks .
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Tossa on September 25, 2012, 11:48:54 AM
Great information Steve. 
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on September 25, 2012, 10:55:32 PM
Steve

Does that mean MX owned fastback model Hodaka/Sprite is the only one made by the Sprite factory or was the US bike in the Photo another bike

MX if it is the only bike Sprite done what a nice piece of history you have saved   ;D

Cheers

Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: ste2hip on September 26, 2012, 01:03:17 AM
 vmx60
           to what i can recall to what dad said the oil/gas company did have the 150 frame kits and the engines fitted over there (USA /canada) i will try and find out for you the names to which they went hope thats ok  :-\
                                                              thanks   
     found out it was suberbane gas and frames were sent to a dealer in canada to have the hodaka wombat  engines fitted still searching for dealers name and city .
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: ste2hip on September 28, 2012, 06:41:11 PM
vmx60
           to what i can recall to what dad said the oil/gas company did have the 150 frame kits and the engines fitted over there (USA /canada) i will try and find out for you the names to which they went hope thats ok  :-\
                                                              thanks   
     found out it was suberbane gas and frames were sent to a dealer in canada to have the hodaka wombat  engines fitted still searching for dealers name and city .
The name of the city was manitoba canada all i know it was a young couples shop no names sorry hope this helped a bit cheers
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on September 28, 2012, 10:17:08 PM
Interesting history with everyone across the globe searching for these little gems..Thanks Steve for contribution.
cheers west australia
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on October 10, 2012, 10:45:16 AM
and again..........

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pre-65-Sprite-Motocross-Scramble-Starmaker-AJS-Stormer-Type-Engine-/221137849616?pt=UK_Motorcycles&hash=item337cd7cd10

and a wanted advert ~ hope in the market yet  ;)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SPRITE-PUCH-SACHS-TRIALS-BIKE-PRE-65-LIKE-BANTAM-TIGER-CUB-1795-OFFERS-PX-/200825704288?pt=UK_Motorcycles&hash=item2ec2250f60
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on October 10, 2012, 12:03:33 PM
  That Starmaker Sprite is an absolute beauty. That's how I envision my planned Maico Sprite. Franks beloved Sprites were certainly nice looking bits of kit.                                                         
                                                           (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/KGrHqVjUFBBBWO-psBQdIHN2KN60_12.jpg)
                                                           (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/KGrHqNrUFdTRpCDBQdIGo3tzg60_12.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on October 19, 2012, 09:54:08 AM
I wondered if you'd see that Firko, got sent photos of it by Steve-the guy with a great collection in the Taranaki which was in the VMX magazine.
Suggested he try contacting you & to look for this thread. Let me know if you'd like his contact details
Is this the sprite/maico restorer in NZ.Could we possably get some photos from him Tony?
Cheers A
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: tony27 on October 19, 2012, 05:04:50 PM
I wondered if you'd see that Firko, got sent photos of it by Steve-the guy with a great collection in the Taranaki which was in the VMX magazine.
Suggested he try contacting you & to look for this thread. Let me know if you'd like his contact details
Is this the sprite/maico restorer in NZ.Could we possably get some photos from him Tony?
Cheers A
Not sure how much he's done to it lately or if he's even made a start on restoring it yet, has an even more interesting bike that he's been researching lately which the swedes are still trying to work out how it got to NZ
Will ask him over weekend
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on October 19, 2012, 11:31:26 PM
Overseas.
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/DennisSprite1-1_zps756d2d17.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite/Alron/American Eagle
Post by: VMX247 on October 20, 2012, 11:41:32 PM
Quote
Have just discovered another 'offspring' - 73 Tyran 400. Will try to post pics shortly & yes, its a rebadged Sprite that was apparently sold by Mitsubishi motors as a Tyran
The Tyran was a model name for the American Eagle as was Talon, Renagade, Cherokee etc. You know how Americans just loved to give models flash names rather than the simpler way of the rest of the world. ;D Mitsubishi Motors took over the distributorship of American Eagle after the McCormick Corporation went belly up.  Alan has a Tyran 125 but it's a rebadged Wassel. They were also marketed in the USA as the Penton Mudlark. The 405 Tyran differed to the American Eagle only in that the American Eagle logo wasn't embossed into the cases, it's more akin to the Alron and BVM........yet another mystery needing further investigation.

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/Woodsman0512_zps51379c74.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on November 08, 2012, 08:50:18 PM
Great news for the Aussie made Blue Alron project

At long last found a front Sprite  brake hub assy on UK Ebay now on the way down under so another piece closer

Never say Never



(http://i46.tinypic.com/2f07s7l.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: EML on November 09, 2012, 09:46:10 PM
I hope it works better than it looks.....
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on November 09, 2012, 10:34:10 PM
Copy of a copy 6inch pommy front brake  Rickman/MP/REH/Sprite  Brands

Anyway started with this hope to end up with a complete restore Blue/Alron




(http://i47.tinypic.com/2qve1bm.jpg)




(http://i44.tinypic.com/3507arn.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on November 09, 2012, 11:29:52 PM
Keen as mustard  8)
Time is plenty with a quality project.  :P
Look forward to the next bit in the box for the WA Blue Alron.
Cheers us2
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on November 10, 2012, 12:58:24 PM
Firko

Sprite frame copy 1998 ???? on UK Ebay




http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221151628401&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on November 10, 2012, 03:17:07 PM
I reckon its a good design if made out of good 4130 instead of the water pipe Frank used. If properly made, a lightweight Chro-Mo Sprite would be a good addition to the pre 65 aftermarket frame choices. The actual geometry and design is excellent, way ahead of it's 1960's opposition. It might just be worth taking a punt on the jig, if only to make a frame for myself.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on November 11, 2012, 10:49:37 AM
Quote
It might just be worth taking a punt on the jig, if only to make a frame for myself. 
But in the sober reality of morning I think I'll pass. It'd cost a fortune to ship it plus, I really don't want to get into the frame business at this late stage of my life ::).
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on November 20, 2012, 09:26:15 PM
Classic Dirtbike Magazine #25
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/FrankHipkin.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on November 30, 2012, 01:40:37 PM
Bloody hell just received the  Old Bike Australasia issue 35 mainly covers road bike

Has a three page colour writeup on the Alron 400 story

Love the feature heading

THE ALRON   not quite right

Story by Jim Scaysbrook

JC/Firko/Ken thought your VMX story on the Alron would appear before this    ;D

Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on November 30, 2012, 01:57:14 PM
Quote
JC/Firko/Ken thought your VMX story on the Alron would appear before this 
I got a bit detuned on it for a while then got sick and detuned on everything. Frank's passing hasn't helped the cause either. I'll get back to it one of these days.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: albrid-3 on November 30, 2012, 03:14:50 PM
I know a sprite chrom-mo frame has been build, an it is excellent job too.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on December 14, 2012, 03:40:37 PM

A Sprite frame to suit a Villiers pre 65 in the UK

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/230895181703?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on January 31, 2013, 05:15:19 PM
Perfect fit,under two minutes this little baby fitted snuggly into the crandle.  ;D  8)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/Starmakertoday2812013_zps2d525214.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on January 31, 2013, 07:29:06 PM
Nice one is Steve riding  pre65 plus all other classes this year  :D  :D  :D  :D
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on February 21, 2013, 11:29:56 PM
Bloody hell just received the  Old Bike Australasia issue 35 mainly covers road bike

Has a three page colour writeup on the Alron 400 story
Love the feature heading
THE ALRON   not quite right
Story by Jim Scaysbrook
JC/Firko/Ken thought your VMX story on the Alron would appear before this    ;D
Cheers
QUOTE
In Defence of the Alron
Thank you for the article in OBA 35. They were a good B grade bike and not as bad as Clarkson made them out to be.I had a lot of success in WA with them, winning in Collie,Bunbury and Northam.I will admit the gear boxes were a little bit fragile (no more than Bultaco)but being a bit gentle on them made them a pretty decent ride.
Bob Johnston WA
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on March 19, 2013, 03:49:18 PM
JC/Firko

Robert from the USA just posted this Photo of a Alron/Ossa never seen this bike before .

Anybody know where this bike is on display

Will we ever find out the number of Ossa /Alron produced   :o

All the parts check out with my bike apart from the Tank and rear guard loop   ???





(http://i46.tinypic.com/5uiwrm.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on March 19, 2013, 03:54:37 PM
Methinks he's got an American Eagle or Sprite and thought it might be cooler to call it an Alron. It's a bit of a bitza with that Rickman style tank and oddball pipe but it looks different enough to look like its a totally different bike. The frame is the gloss grey Frank painted Sprites towards the end of production.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on March 19, 2013, 04:08:41 PM

Keep looking at my Alron and this bike has the same motor fitment right down to the rear engine mounting plates and the angle of the motor and the Ossa parts are std SDR model motor/pipe/amal

Think Australia was the only place to produce the Sprite with the Ossa  motor

Alron ???????????????????????????????????????????
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on March 19, 2013, 04:24:05 PM
I wonder how it got to the USA? You're right of course I momentarily forgot that the OSSA version was an Aussie creation. I can remember Frank going apeshit over your one, he (and I) couldn't believe they'd sell something with the engine in so crooked ;D. I don't think he'd been aware of the OSSA bikes until he saw yours.

a few minutes later: Bingo! The old bike directly behind the Alron has what appears to be a South Australia number plate so the Alron is here in Australia by the looks of it. How many did they make? It looks like you can add another one

BTW, Jonesy picked up the correct Hi-Point/Lyta tank so he now has everything to now build his #2 American Eagle as an Alron (replica)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on March 19, 2013, 04:54:12 PM
Wonder if it,s on JC list of known bikes in Australia
One of the writeups maybe Two wheel mag did have a Photo of a wreck of a Alron/Ossa in SA   :o
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on March 19, 2013, 08:08:01 PM
Well I am spewing, because I went to a vintage pony express at Malanda on the weekend & didn't take my camera with me . Low & behold , there was an Alron with an Ossa 250 motor on display . It was in immaculate condition & the owner said that it was unrestored . I have since managed to track down his phone number, so i will see if JC can get some photos of it , as he lives up that way . 
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on March 20, 2013, 11:36:05 PM
Found the old Photo in VMX  7 Alron story this look to be the same bike as it has the Rickman tank fitted
 Wonder if the tank was the fitted for Enduros from the Alron factory as they were the Rickman agents at the time   ???

Small World when the restored Photo  is posted on a USA site




(http://i45.tinypic.com/4tltls.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: JC on March 21, 2013, 03:28:13 PM
Yeh, you got it right Murray. Certainly is on my list, along w many pics of it - since forwarded to VMX a couple of yrs ago. The museum was very helpful.The accompanying article also answers fairly conclusively (I think) how many were produced. Don't know where that particular pic came from tho.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on March 25, 2013, 04:24:35 PM
Nice Zundapp powered Eagle  8)

Forwarded via Robert in the states.  AHRMA winning bike
 


Am Eagle built and raced by Randy Lewis. One of the cylinder options was done by famed tuner EC Birt who employed a young Don Emler of FMF

(http://i47.tinypic.com/152okfs.jpg)


(http://i46.tinypic.com/213kvo.jpg)


(http://i46.tinypic.com/23r0bw0.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: stormer 254 on August 10, 2013, 06:34:18 AM
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rare-pre-65-Triumph-T100A-500cc-/171097161894?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item27d62f80a6

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on September 25, 2013, 10:23:53 PM
This popped up on eBay today
                                                                            (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/AEtracker_zpsd681b2c3.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/AEtracker_zpsd681b2c3.jpg.html)
 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Other-Makes-1070-AMERICAN-EAGLE-405-TALON-SPRITE-VINTAGE-FLAT-TRACK-DIRT-TRACKER-RACE-AHRMA-/161113467311?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item25831c69af#v4-40 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Other-Makes-1070-AMERICAN-EAGLE-405-TALON-SPRITE-VINTAGE-FLAT-TRACK-DIRT-TRACKER-RACE-AHRMA-/161113467311?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item25831c69af#v4-40)


1970 American Eagle 405 Flat Tracker.



This bike has an above average condition frame, the nickle plating looks really nice compared to the other American Eagles I have built. It is stock and unmodified so it can easily be put back to Motocross trim.



The original tank has been painted, but in awesome condition.XR 750 tail section, with unapholstered seat pan. I was going to go with red white and blue stars and stripes.



The wheels are Profesionally built with polished 19" Excell rims, stainless spoke and chrome nipples. The front hub is from a gs750 Suzuki, and has provision for dual disk brakes. The rear is a really nice original American Eagle conical alloy hub. The Goodyear Dirt Track tires have some cracking due to age but usable in my opinion.



Nice original American Eagle front forks, might need seals, easy to find at the bearing supply store.



The 405 Talon engine , made in England needs to be built. I have lots of duplicate parts, and belive it is mostly complete. It has a brand new rebuilt Crank and rod assembly done by Hot Rods. There are 3 sets of ignitions, 2 sets of inner cases, although one has been welded on. 2 clutches, a couple sets of gears, bearings, wrist pins. one piston in good shape. a set of rings will need to be found, as the set I have has one broken. Seals can be found at the bearing supply store. 2 Amal carburetors. lots of screws and fasteners. Check out the pictures. there is no head gasket. It is a simple round copper gasket. I have engine parts schematic online at www.americaneaglecollector.com
Custom built pipe to exit on the right side for dirt track, as the stock pipe exited on the wrong side.

The two pictures of all the engine parts are the same parts, different views.
 
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Tahitian_Red on September 26, 2013, 03:11:50 AM
He also has this one with a DT-1 motor. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Other-Makes-1970-american-eagle-250-yamaha-dt-1-vintage-race-ahrma-moto-cross-/161113926539?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2583236b8b&item=161113926539&pt=US_motorcycles

Firko,

I go to Bakersfield on occasion.  I'm just sayin'.  ;D
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on September 26, 2013, 08:02:45 AM
Quote
I go to Bakersfield on occasion.  I'm just sayin'.  ;D
No, no, no........ ;D . I'm over my Sprite/AE/Alron period and I reckon I might have reached saturation point with my DT1 hot rods ;). As soon as the 'Hindall Brothers' are completed I'm returning to my beloved Maicos, my long overlooked Triumphs and the big Yamaha 750 dirt tracker project. Having said that, the DT1/ American Eagle would make a fantastic pre 70 project for somebody.

I've got an ex sister in law living in Bakersfield. She's an immigration lawyer and has a never ending clientele supply. ;)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Tahitian_Red on September 26, 2013, 08:26:45 AM
I have some relatives in Bakersfield that are probably here illegally, maybe I should get her number from you.  LOL
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on September 26, 2013, 08:37:42 AM
Is the drag strip still in Bakersfield Jay? I remember driving out there for a 60 funny car meet in the mid 70's. There also used to be a good bar with Pabst Blue Ribbon on tap we'd stop by on our way up to Fresno. It was the only bar besides Joe Josts in Long Beach that I knew of that had ice cold Pabst Blue Ribbon on tap...I wish I could remember its name? ::)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Tahitian_Red on September 26, 2013, 08:55:44 AM
The track is Famoso and they still have nostalgic drags there (Front engined "Digger" rails and Willys Double A Gassers, etc...)

PBR has made a comeback recently and you can get it on tap in quite a few places now.  I was always a Coors man myself.  ;)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on September 29, 2013, 10:45:10 PM
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/sprite_zpsc10f799b.jpg) (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/vmx247/media/sprite_zpsc10f799b.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on November 07, 2013, 11:02:17 PM
Just received my copy of Motocross On Air by Ian Berry whom brought us the book Out Front.
Quiet a few photos and references on the Sprite...

Make a great Christmas pressie to yourself on British Scrambles and Grandstand Trophy 1963-1970  8)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on November 13, 2013, 02:59:05 PM
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sprite-360-motocross-mx-vintage-5pg-original-magazine-test-article-1969-/281052872298?pt=Motors_Manuals_Literature&hash=item41700e7e6a&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sprite-360-motocross-mx-vintage-5pg-original-magazine-test-article-1969-/281052872298?pt=Motors_Manuals_Literature&hash=item41700e7e6a&vxp=mtr)
                                                                (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/firko2107/spritemag_zpsc69a8232.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/firko2107/spritemag_zpsc69a8232.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on February 01, 2014, 10:16:44 PM

Well after waiting close on 12mths the Blue Alron frame is repaired and back on my bench . Started with a bare frame and back wheel only so along way to go.
Lots of parts brought by the owner, over this time to bring this one off Alron bike back to life  8)



(http://i59.tinypic.com/2j60p5l.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: firko on February 01, 2014, 10:28:15 PM
Cool.....another one is slowly going together over on this side of the island as well.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: bazza on February 02, 2014, 08:43:30 AM
VMX60 looking good,do you have the side covers? Why is it a one off?
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on February 02, 2014, 12:53:28 PM
This is the only true Australia made Alron Ossa, As in the Photo ,where sure after all the research the frame was made at Jandakot Perth .with a mix of Sprite and Rickman then Ossa parts ,and was the only one produced ever, as known at this time.

Biggest problem we only have two old Two Wheels Magazine Photos ,to build the bike from .

Everything has to be made sidecovers /seatbase and the list goes on

The bike in the Photo is the one on my bench  :o




(http://i40.tinypic.com/245x941.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: bazza on February 02, 2014, 01:06:50 PM
 That's cool
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Tossa on February 02, 2014, 11:53:34 PM
Murray I thought it was the only one sold as a road registered endure bike
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on February 03, 2014, 12:14:49 AM
Barry

That is the history as we know it,only one made , but the Alron is a strange story

Never say Never  ::)  what will be found

Cheers

Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Tossa on February 03, 2014, 12:05:19 PM
Yeah I know what you mean Murray, see you at the track this year.  Hopefully with a zundapp by June
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on February 04, 2014, 04:34:35 PM
SDR motor fitted the resto is GO  ;D





(http://i58.tinypic.com/2hx9jpx.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Huskyviking on February 18, 2014, 11:14:46 PM
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac148/jef_wuyts/BVMJanBoonen_zps660b6326.jpeg) (http://s894.photobucket.com/user/jef_wuyts/media/BVMJanBoonen_zps660b6326.jpeg.html)

This is the late Jan Boonen from Belgium himself on his BVM, note the left hand side exhaust pipe.
So he was probably experimenting there with a genuine Husqvarna cylinder or a complete Husky block in a BVM ( Sprite) frame.
It is a page from a program book from a Belgian amateur federation where he was competing at that time.
Before that he always rode Husqvarna 4speeds in his 2stroke carrier, after the BVM period he changed to KTM.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on February 18, 2014, 11:45:27 PM
Jan might have had the answer to BVM /EAGLE/ALRON 400CC gearbox problem, fit a real Husky 400cc  complete motor , that makes sence when you run out of Sprite gearbox parts, by all reports the rolling Sprite frame were a good handling bike

Did they sell many BVM . Huskyviking ????????????
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Huskyviking on February 19, 2014, 02:46:32 AM
Personally I know only a handfull of riders in Belgium who owned a BVM at that time, and a few of them certainly got them at a reduced price to promote the bike each in their federation (there are several motorcross federations in Belgium)
On the left side of the page you see how they promoted the bike:
"Fast & reliable,  lightweight at 97 kg, powerfull BVM engine with 4 speed gearbox
400cc at 55.000 BF." ( is about 1400 Euro now without tax = 1900USD or 2100AUD)
I tried to contact some of those guys to get some more photo's, but no reply yet.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on February 25, 2014, 11:07:54 PM

Few parts arrived from the UK so getting closer to another Alron on the VMX track   :P



(http://i62.tinypic.com/an1s1v.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on February 27, 2014, 01:55:00 PM
A touch of SPRITE  DNA

Another winner  :)

(http://i62.tinypic.com/1inclv.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Huskyviking on March 02, 2014, 05:02:47 AM
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac148/jef_wuyts/JohanBoonenBVM_zpsc363c4c1.jpg) (http://s894.photobucket.com/user/jef_wuyts/media/JohanBoonenBVM_zpsc363c4c1.jpg.html)

This is Johan Boonen from Belgium, son of Jan Boonen, with a restored BVM, probably coming from the F.Munsters collection.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Huskyviking on March 28, 2014, 04:40:05 AM
Jaak Vanvelthoven, from Boonen Vanvelthoven Motors in Lommel Belgium, confirmed that they built around 70 BVM bikes at the time.
The first 30 were assembled with original Sprite frames from the UK, the rest with frames made by Wilvo, a metal construction company in Holland.
On many bikes they fitted Husqvarna pistons and cilinders and consequently an adapted exhaust pipe to the left hand side.
One of the famous riders on BVM was Walter Baeten, brother of René Baeten who was the first Belgian World Champion motorcross in 1958.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Michael Moore on March 28, 2014, 05:36:09 AM
A touch of SPRITE  DNA

AFAIK the Tyran/Dalesman bikes were built by Jim Lee, not Hipkin.

cheers,
Michael
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: ste2hip on April 04, 2014, 11:25:58 PM
mitsubishi askd dad to build a 125 for the americain market.he  he had a meeting with his good friend ted wassall .if he wanted to have crack at the American market on the understanding that he used sprites front rear hubs forks  and stove enamelled  the frames blue hammer.ASO DAD supplied hubs n forks to various other people some times the are mistaken for REH HOPE THIS HELPS

                                                 YOURS STEVE HIPKIN
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on April 05, 2014, 12:38:45 AM
Steve

Franks Sprite wheel sure were fitted to a lot of bikes, even now most are listed on UK Ebay as the other brands

Good news another Sprite/Alron is now running again  :)

Glad you still check the sprite forum

Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on April 13, 2014, 09:48:00 PM
Well at long last the real made in Perth framed Alron / Ossa 250cc is off the bench and running, along side the Sprite /Alron/Ossa 250cc . A bloody hard project starting with a bare frame and rear wheel .

Two saved as a bit of Aussie History  :D
(http://i58.tinypic.com/53mdxf.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Tossa on April 13, 2014, 10:49:33 PM
Great job Murray, can I have my bike back now!!!lol
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: EML on April 14, 2014, 10:45:33 AM
Tremendous effort from all concerned.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Tossa on April 16, 2014, 11:02:25 AM
On gumtree in Perth today

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/roleystone/motorcycles/vmx-sprite-405-1970/1044148441
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on April 26, 2014, 01:35:52 PM
These photos are of what we tried to achieve by restoring the two actual bikes in the magazine photo all those years ago.
The last photo is the bikes restored for VMX as race bikes, and running as a matched pair to the original photos of the Alron article.
Cheers  :)


(http://i61.tinypic.com/2zxzb6o.jpg)




(http://i60.tinypic.com/34yv994.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Tossa on April 26, 2014, 01:57:13 PM
great job Murray
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: ste2hip on April 26, 2014, 05:36:14 PM
Superb dad would have been thrilld its great that there's pepole out there who keep it alive not like today when its all throwaway keep it up well done
      All the best hipkins  :)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: JC on May 02, 2014, 08:33:15 AM
I'm a bit slow seeing this. Fantastic effort Murray.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on May 02, 2014, 08:36:10 AM
Same..cracker job..cant wait to see her live.  8)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: FourstrokeForever on May 03, 2014, 11:02:57 AM
Excellent work Murray. More Aussie history saved and brought back from the dead.
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: ste2hip on November 17, 2014, 10:01:36 PM
Hi all just a note if any of you are on Facebook on my time line there's a short film on it you see dave smith putting together a sprite maico it's. Stephen hipkin so add me
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on November 17, 2014, 11:47:31 PM
Hi all just a note if any of you are on Facebook on my time line there's a short film on it you see dave smith putting together a sprite maico it's. Stephen hipkin so add me

cool a Maico,
what is your Facebook profile picture,there are six Stephen Hipkin  :)
Cheers
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: ste2hip on November 18, 2014, 08:01:32 AM
sorry alison youve already seen the film  :-[ we have only just seen it havnt lookd in a long time since dads passing getting back into it  :-[ :-[ :-[
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on November 18, 2014, 08:16:49 PM
3.10 mark   :)  thanks to Firko for the link  :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY2jvzAWR2k
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on January 02, 2015, 06:24:19 PM
Happy 2015 :D

NEW PROJECT very early Sprite bare frame, would of had the copy 400 Husky motor fitted .

Like to do a pre60 two stroke something ??

Plan was to fit a DKW 1957 250cc but the cases are to long to fit


(http://i58.tinypic.com/ay6el1.jpg)

Any IDEAS on a motor

Cheers

Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: darren4867 on January 09, 2015, 05:42:33 AM
new sprite alron bvm Facebook group started by stev have a look
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: Hoony on January 11, 2015, 07:39:20 PM
new sprite alron bvm Facebook group started by stev have a look

https://www.facebook.com/groups/812399278818904/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/812399278818904/)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX60 on January 16, 2015, 06:02:35 PM
2015 has started with this FORUM  Helping to bring back to life another Sprite

After posting the bare Sprite frame Photo

And the GENEROSITY of a forum member I now have a set Frank Hipkin / Sprite forks complete . in VGC

Just proves Never say Never

THANK YOU  :D

(http://i60.tinypic.com/2ym60r4.jpg)
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: Sprite_500 on March 20, 2015, 08:34:36 PM
(http://[url=http://[IMG]http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/Sprite1.jpg)](http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/Sprite1.jpg)[/url][/img]

cheers Firko here's a couple back at ya  ;D

Hi VMX247
I'm ploughing my way through this thread, your scans make for interesting reading, could you please let me know what the book is,
Title: Re: Sprite
Post by: VMX247 on March 20, 2015, 10:45:54 PM
Hi VMX247
I'm ploughing my way through this thread, your scans make for interesting reading, could you please let me know what the book is,


Gidday Sprite_500 they are all articles from magazines, mostly sourced off other VMX enthusiasts or ebay.
cheers
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: ste2hip on March 21, 2015, 12:48:57 AM
 8)it's worth a look cheers
new sprite alron bvm Facebook group started by stev have a look

https://www.facebook.com/groups/812399278818904/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/812399278818904/)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on December 23, 2015, 11:32:38 AM
Greetings from the mother land UK....  :)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/12388163_1052113788143684_1601948602_n%202_zpsfljsfw49.jpg) (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/vmx247/media/12388163_1052113788143684_1601948602_n%202_zpsfljsfw49.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on February 15, 2020, 04:26:13 PM
The UK Sprite Team has grown & booked a BIGGER bay for 2020s Telford Show this weekend....
Dont miss it across social media .????
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: cloggy on February 22, 2020, 05:08:55 AM
It good to see all the Sprites and Frank's son was so self effacing. Came out almost by accident that he was related. 
Title: Re: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST
Post by: VMX247 on December 22, 2020, 11:22:55 PM
Greetings from the mother land UK....  :)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/12388163_1052113788143684_1601948602_n%202_zpsfljsfw49.jpg) (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/vmx247/media/12388163_1052113788143684_1601948602_n%202_zpsfljsfw49.jpg.html)

It is upon us again, though most have moved to facebook and instagram the UK Sprite Family send greeting for the 2020 Festive Season..