Author Topic: Vintage Nats - standard of racing and dealing with different levels of talent  (Read 27479 times)

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Offline Nathan S

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That accident was not the tracks fault....that was 2 riders farking up.

Sorry John this accident was only one riders fault.  Clearly No 32 had got a bad start or something.  He came past me very close to me and was then just in front of me.  Derek did not do anything wrong.  The other rider ran into the back of him.

From #32's point of view, #E50 was going straight when he committed to the jump, but then #E50 moved over and bad things happened.
From #E50's point of view, he was maintaining his line, but then #32 almost landed on top of him and bad things happened.

Like I said earlier, I've been in both positions at different times, and I understand how it can happen. It's neither riders' fault - it's the outcome of riders with widely differing speeds racing in the same race.

If we do nothing then its inevitable that it will happen again and again, possibly with a worse outcome.
If we talk about it, then we might come up with a way of stopping it happening. If we don't, then we're no worse off than we are now.


The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline D project

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Both of us riders that came up from Vic to the event both thought the track and event was fantastic and well run.
I think most riders rode to their ability and the track style which I thought was suited to post classic style bikes.
I'm sure most riders would have preped their bikes accordingly?
Everyone who ran the event were easygoing and helpful. I even got a "great ride out there mate" from one of the flaggies! Pretty much made my day :D.
I didn't think any of the jumps were too outa place you either attempted them or not.
Even when you didn't, you just bottomed out. People made their own choices whether it was worth doing or not.
The Matterhorn made it a little more interesting I thought. Even thought I did drop it on the uphill and got passed by the pack :o
The only slight complaint that I could see was there was no timetable and the frame/engine number/ riding gear check was a bit tedious.
I look forward to having a go next year ;)
Thanks to everyone who made the event the hit it was!

Offline foxy999

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From the Qvmx committee it was a pleasure to meet a lot of new faces last weekend. The debate about fast and slow riders will never go away, it's in any sport and people just have to adapt to the conditions on the day. On behalf of the  Qvmx committee we would like to take this opportunity to thank all those who  participated and assisted   in this great event .

Brian Fox
Qvmx secretary
« Last Edit: April 29, 2014, 02:52:45 PM by foxy999 »
My fastest lap is the first one :)

Offline VMX247

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Flip side if the coin.....perhaps the Toowoomba members wanted the new jumps and thats the only time the voulenteer machine operator could do the work.
Voulenteers are a rare breed now days.
10/10  to all involved.  8)
Best is in the West !!

Offline EML

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Would be a good idea to adopt the motorsport standard of waving a blue flag when leaders are approaching lapped riders.
This would also help to keep the flaggies involved more...instead of them dozing off or star gazing or worse still...nose picking, as I've seen a few doing. If they were to watch what was happening during the race they would be able to alert riders that they are about to be passed.
Cudos to those that made the effort to ride the track voted one of the best in the WORLD by the recent Mr Motocross re-union dinner riders.

Offline supersenior 50

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A viewpoint from the lower end of the foodchain.
I scoped the track Friday and again Sat morning, and decided to withdraw. I felt I could "get around" ok but not "race" with my level of fitness and skill. I was very aware of the possibility of being landed on when being lapped and rolling the big jumps with consequences to myself and others. The decision while difficult (I have never withdrawn because of track conditions before in 50 years) was easy once I asked myself would I have fun. No other reason for me to ride.
I then had a great weekend watching the likes of James Deacon and other aces do their stuff without the distraction of competing myself. In spite of admiring the skill of these guns, my heroes are the likes of Brad 090, John Kittle, Carl Bletcher, John Kemp and many others who are approaching or over 50 (Carl is 61) who are not only very fast but ride regularly and support their clubs.
Particularly in the light of me chickening out, hats off to the older girls (sorry) Lisa, Peta, Kerry and Helen who battled around all weekend.
We have Queensland Classic and Post Classic Championships at Harrisville, 14/15 June with a very different track to Echo Valley. Not saying better (or worse), but much more vintage friendly yet fun for the aces.

Offline Ted

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That accident was not the tracks fault....that was 2 riders farking up.

Sorry John this accident was only one riders fault.  Clearly No 32 had got a bad start or something.  He came past me very close to me and was then just in front of me.  Derek did not do anything wrong.  The other rider ran into the back of him.

Kev, you have got to be joking. Yeah sure #32 ran into him. What else could he do. The other guy was riding at 45 degrees across the downhill ramp.

And as for your bad start assumption. #32 had just finished the previous race and was trying to start his bike to enter the next race. The commentator even called it " #32 Harris is trying to start his bike, looks like he has got it going now and will be joining the grid " At that point the gate dropped and Harris was nowhere near the gates. He had to ride into the gating area and take off, giving the entire field more than the full length of the straight head start.

#32 qualified third fastest, came sixth in the first moto and easily won the over 50 Evo over 263. He, as you can see by his results is a very quick, competent rider. Not some gung ho wobbler as you portray. Given the fact that he caught youse in half a lap is testament to his ability.

We are becomming accustomed to this sort of bias reporting. A few of us attended the Classic Nats, also in Qld last year and could not believe the totally bias commentary that went on. Even to the point of a certain interstate rider donkey licking the entire field in the first two motos and not even getting a mention in the chances for the third moto win, which he very easily did. We hoped that the commentary would be less bias this time. This time comments like " He only got around the local boy for the win because local boys rear brake failed " Another race, two interstaters are running first and second the commentary is on local boy third and local boy fourth, way behind first and second and then start talking about sidecars when the result is inevitable.  The totally bias commentary even made the Qlders around us blush.

This meeting was another very well run meeting by the by the best in the business. Congratulations to all involved.

BTW #32 will most likely be off work for months with multiple broken bones in his foot and leg, a torn knee and a fukd bike......not that you will care Kev.

Pity you didn't show the same form out on the track that you did on Friday arvo ripping through the pits at warp speed on your Maico throwing rocks and dust everywhere. Maybe #32 wouldn't have been able to ride so close to you on the track then
« Last Edit: April 29, 2014, 05:06:41 PM by Ted »
81 YZ 465 H   77 RM 125 B

Offline Digga

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A viewpoint from the lower end of the foodchain.
I scoped the track Friday and again Sat morning, and decided to withdraw. I felt I could "get around" ok but not "race" with my level of fitness and skill. I was very aware of the possibility of being landed on when being lapped and rolling the big jumps with consequences to myself and others. The decision while difficult (I have never withdrawn because of track conditions before in 50 years) was easy once I asked myself would I have fun. No other reason for me to ride.
I then had a great weekend watching the likes of James Deacon and other aces do their stuff without the distraction of competing myself. In spite of admiring the skill of these guns, my heroes are the likes of Brad 090, John Kittle, Carl Bletcher, John Kemp and many others who are approaching or over 50 (Carl is 61) who are not only very fast but ride regularly and support their clubs.
Particularly in the light of me chickening out, hats off to the older girls (sorry) Lisa, Peta, Kerry and Helen who battled around all weekend.
We have Queensland Classic and Post Classic Championships at Harrisville, 14/15 June with a very different track to Echo Valley. Not saying better (or worse), but much more vintage friendly yet fun for the aces.

A very prudent & wise decision made on your behalf sir & dip my hat to you for such a difficult choice to make. But you & your cherished machinary are still here in one piece to tell your story & play again another day, so well done to you :-)))

Not so much of an easy call though if you had driven all the way from WA, SA, Vic or Tas to be confronted with such a dilema???
1977 Yamaha YZ250D, 1977 Yamaha YZ400D, 1980 Yamaha YZ125G

Offline Rossvickicampbell

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Graeme - your niche fringe comment is spot on and well put.
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1980 Honda CR250R - Moto X Fox Replica

Offline supersenior 50

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Yes the point re entrants who've travelled a long way is valid. We who organise these events need to bear that in mind.
I agree the blue flag has merit, and we may adopt it for the Qld Titles,but I dont think big doubles and step ups are appropriate for vintage. If we dont cater for the average punters we risk losing them.
A very rough guestimate is the "average" riders contribuited over $12,000 in entries, without which these events wouldn't be viable. We all love to see the big guns do their thing, but it is the ordinary club rider who make these events possible.

Offline Noel

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I always feel that when you speak Col. all should Listen

Noel

Offline Barra

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The flaggies job is to watch riders travelling away from them. They are responsible for their sector between their station and the next. They have no time nor should they be watching racing coming toward them from 2,3, 4 or more corners away.

Blue flags (done properly) require a second flaggie, or at least a few dedicated ones placed around the course in crucial spots.

It may be possible with a concerted effort to make this happen at one particular event, but each and every event held?? NAICCIH.


Offline VMX247

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Best is in the West !!

Offline Graeme M

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Please let's keep on topic. Again, I don't want people slagging off at particular people or matters relating to the PC titles. This is meant to be about managing potential problems that became apparent and which may arise at future meetings.

Barra, the idea to use blue flags is not aimed at typical club days, these are usually well managed as they are. But at the titles, you end up with a much wider cross section of skills and ability plus a greater level of aggression.

My main point, and it may be that I am wrong given I am not involved, is that Pre 90 and Pre 85 racing is not 'vintage' the way it was originally formed. When you can get a largely modern track with very fast riders on bikes with plenty of travel and reasonably sophisticated suspension and handling, you have a very different playing field to that which was found at say the '93 Vintage Nats.

I believe that as we make the PC titles more and more professional and attract more serious entrants, we raise the bar for on-track performance. And blokes like me are out in the cold, because no way would I risk my life, and that of others, by wobbling around in those conditions.

It's all very well to say if a bloke pays his money it's his right to ride, but geeze, where do you draw the line on that. There is enormous scope for problems in that mix.

I'm not pointing the finger at QVMX or Toowoomba MXC. I'm pointing the finger at something I think needs to be discussed for future promoters to consider.

A natural terrain track is a way better option. But if you can't have that, and the good guys want a proper modern style track (and after all, tracks were pretty gnarly in the mid to late 80s), then how do you manage the risk?

Or do we just accept the risk because it's a tough sport?

Regardless of risk, we also face the question of Joe Average losing interest. Clearly at least one rider abandoned the meeting for those reasons. Australia doesn't have the population for the titles to become a very small pond catering to a few fast guys.

Personally, and you can howl me down for this, I think the time for Vintage titles is over. Winning Championships is what you do when you are 20. Not 60. I think it would be better to stick to club series and big social events like CD and PBBB.

Offline SlideRulz

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I also agree with SuperSenior50, make it too serious with qualification levels and more than half won't turn up.
Maybe its time for each title meeting to be held every second year, Classic one year and Post Classic the next and alternate between MX and DT so that each discipline has one title meeting a year.
Dates and sup regs to be released twelve months in advance.