Where is the next breaking point?

[Simo63]

Just for some perspective, we aren't the only activity/sport that is suffering from cancellations.  Here are some in the music/festival scene of late:

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/music/festival-bubble-bursts-as-homebake-cancelled-20131023-2w083.html

On a personal note, regardless of the current economic times (or perhaps BECAUSE of the current economic times) I would prefer our VMX sport keep up with the passing of time and introduce new classes as the need or demand arises.

[09.0]

Hence the reason I have cracked the shits, and im going to disappear for a while!

Your loss I say. Everybody knows the venting on here impacts little to not at all in the real world.

[firko]

Your loss I say. Everybody knows the venting on here impacts little to not at all in the real world.

I was thinking the same thing. Cracking a shitty over what I or anyone else says on here seems a bit premature. Maybe your heart was never fully into it.

[Ted]

If you can agree to the significance of these bikes and this era now, what are your thoughts on them being race classes in the near future???

Pre 85 isn't running anything near half of its potential and as Davey says, punters are just starting to get their heads around pre 90 so it would be a swan dive into disaster to introduce (or even consider ) any newer cutoff areas for at least five years. Every time I argue against these new classes I get attacked by the usual antagonists for being an old dinosaur clinging to the pre 75 dream and afraid of change, but the truth is that I have no problem whatsoever with new classes being introduced, my problem is with those classes being introduced too soon. Until the existing classes are hosting full fields in all capacities we need to concentrate on and perfect the divisions we have already. The cancellation of the Post Classic Nats early this year is evidence enough that there are enough problems within the Post Classic era to deal with without adding new fuel to the fire.

I bit my tongue earlier, but...

Pre-85 will NEVER meet the impossible expectations you set for it, because it was introduced too late. Pre-90, Pre-78 and Pre-70 are all doomed to the same fate, for exactly the same reasons. The two strongest classes in VMX are Pre-75 and Evo because they were introduced early.
Pre-75 was a mere 13 years old when VMX started - the newest Pre-95 bike is 18 years old already, and we're talking about waiting another five years?!...

Most of us live our (first) dirt-biking hey-day in our late teens and early twenties. Then things like family and career and mortgages typically get in the way in our mid twenties, and we drift away to look after those other things.
The majority of people join the VMX movement when they're in their mid-30s to mid-40s - when the Family/career/mortgage is under control and they have the time and money to race dirt bikes again, but are not able/willing to mix it with the youngsters at the typical modern club day.
There are plenty of welcome exceptions to that, but since the start of VMX its undoubtedly been the 35~45 year old blokes who are the vast majority of the new recruits - and the these blokes will most closely identify with bikes that are 15~20 years old: The bikes these blokes rode in their own personal heyday.

The Retro/Norths (pre-90) club in NSW is a clear example of this - the average age is clearly considerably lower than it is at Heaven...

We can talk of Pre-85's "potential" until the cows come home, but we crippled it from the start - the window of opportunity was mostly closed before we finally got around to saying "you know what? A bike made in 1984 is really quite old now - maybe it could even be a VMX class". We did the same for Pre-90 and we are about to do the same for Pre-95.

The VMX movement is doomed while the "not yet" mentality is allowed to prevail. Everyone has their own pet era, and that's a GOOD thing - I don't expect the 50+ yo blokes to share my enthusiasm for Pre-95 - but I get properly cranky when they try to claim that my enthusiasm for Pre-95 is somehow less valid than their own enthusiasm for Pre-75 was in 1989...

Hence the reason I have cracked the shits, and im going to disappear for a while!

Nada, Your last sentence is only contributing to the non introduction of later classes.

Running away until somebody makes it right for you will never work.

There's a lot of talk on here about us old pricks. Well us old pricks have never had anything handed to us. We were brought up in a culture that if you wanted something you got it yourself. Asking for a ice block at the shops got you a backhander. Heaven has more members closer to 60 than they have closer to 30. When, unfortunately, CD fell over the Heaven committee thought lets get a extra ride going for our members and anyone else that wants to come. Blokes like Dennis, Arty, Justin and myself took a couple of days off work to make it happen. This is why Heaven is successful. Less talk, more work.

My point is that if you, Nathan or anybody else want change, make it happen. Don't fu..king  well sit on here bleating about it. If Nathan is right and Pre 90,95 and 2000 bikes will be the saviour of VMX then I would assume it would be very fu..king easy to start a club based on that.

Fu..cking off for a while will never work

Don't take this personally bud, I like you...it's just the way it is

[bazza]

My point is that if you, Nathan or anybody else want change, make it happen. Don't fu..king  well sit on here bleating about it. If Nathan is right and Pre 90,95 and 2000 bikes will be the saviour of VMX then I would assume it would be very fu..king easy to start a club based on that.

Interesting people hear who want newer bikes wont start up a club to cater for them,and its so easy hear with get a bit of land anywhere ,mark it out,get insurance(not expensive) and go for it.

[Nathan S]

My point is that if you, Nathan or anybody else want change, make it happen. Don't fu..king  well sit on here bleating about it. If Nathan is right and Pre 90,95 and 2000 bikes will be the saviour of VMX then I would assume it would be very fu..king easy to start a club based on that.

Interesting people hear who want newer bikes wont start up a club to cater for them,and its so easy hear with get a bit of land anywhere ,mark it out,get insurance(not expensive) and go for it.

Ted, I never said thart Pre-95 would be "the savior" - it's just one of many small but important steps that need to be taken if VMX is to prosper/survive. Anyone who thinks that there's a simple, one-step process to make VMX "reach it's potential" is kidding themselves. There's a whole raft of things to be done, and accepting and introducing new classes in a timely manner is just one of them.

Pre-95 is an important symbolic issue, though - that if it can be accepted by the old guard before it is rammed down their throats, then it would be a hugely postitive step forward - that we can all respect each other's pet eras, and are working toward building the sport.

-------

bazza, The legal and financial requirements in Australia (and particularly NSW) make a one-era-only club doomed to failure. The idea of "just starting a new club" for a niche within a niche is not that many steps short of saying "let's fly to the moon"...

[bazza]

Nathan understand NSW has problem with speedway act or similar. Get on to your MPs, australia must also have laws saying you can not have a monopoly- MA is a monopoly
I gave your MP for health a phone call over a Auzy mate waiting ages for a operation,with in few weeks the operation happened, here MNZ said we cant go on our own,we called a meeting,when they turned up showed them a legal letter saying you cant have a monopoly,breaching our bill of rights etc and they went away.Moral of story things can happen if you make them. Not allways easy.

[nada]

Get on to your MPs, australia must also have laws saying you can not have a monopoly- MA is a monopoly

It has been suggested previously that the movement go across to CAMS and leave MA?? Why not?? maybe that's the kick in the arse MA need?

[Ted]

NDMCC have a EVO, Pre 85 , Pre 90 club in NSW all under the banner of Pre 90.

Is there enough of you guys that want Pre 90/95/2000 going to their meets to warrant hiring a track on your own bat instead of piggybacking. Shaun does an absolutely marvelous job of organizing things but is he getting the overwhelming patronage and help to justify these classes.

You guys know the answer to that one.

[Nathan S]

Nathan understand NSW has problem with speedway act or similar. Get on to your MPs, australia must also have laws saying you can not have a monopoly- MA is a monopoly
I gave your MP for health a phone call over a Auzy mate waiting ages for a operation,with in few weeks the operation happened, here MNZ said we cant go on our own,we called a meeting,when they turned up showed them a legal letter saying you cant have a monopoly,breaching our bill of rights etc and they went away.Moral of story things can happen if you make them. Not allways easy.

The Speedway ACT is a significant PITA, but is not MA's fault.
MA does NOT have a monopoly - it's just that we are collectively a bunch of sheep who love to complain about MA but won't seriously consider the entirely viable and proven alternative.

The bigger issue is that we had laws that encouraged ambulance chaser lawyers, and consequently NOTHING can happen without insurance.

[Nathan S]

NDMCC have a EVO, Pre 85 , Pre 90 club in NSW all under the banner of Pre 90.

Is there enough of you guys that want Pre 90/95/2000 going to their meets to warrant hiring a track on your own bat instead of piggybacking. Shaun does an absolutely marvelous job of organizing things but is he getting the overwhelming patronage and help to justify these classes.

You guys know the answer to that one.

I think Norths is stuck between a rock and a hard place - the short version is that Heaven already 'owns' too much of the VMX pie for a second club to get to the point that it runs its own meetings.
This is not a criticism of Heaven - there's no reason for them to give up a large chunk of their members/competitors to a competing club.

Even at my most enthusiastic, I'd have struggled to justify going to a VMX meet to ride one class. You might do a local club day like that, but most of us find it hard to justify several hours of travel for three or four races.

I went to every single Norths round in 2011 and 2012 (and have only missed two this year - one due to injury, the other because it conflicted with the 24-hour), but I only went to a couple of Heaven events last year - and one of them because it was combined with a Norths round...

[nada]

I understandwhay your sayingTed and 090, and i respect that! I like you too old mate Ted:)

My biggest beef is with my but head mates, who refuse to ride old bikes, its not just the factor of me not getting the classes i want.

I have nobody to accompany me to a meeting, and if im injured, i have nobody to help me get home.

The fact the scene is not moving in my direction, is just the icing on the cake.

i don't understand why there needs to be several series, why i need to be members of several clubs to attend a meeting where we all share the same views and passion.

Anyway, missus said I could by a new husky, and i'm doing that. I will keep in touch and hopefully see all again soon:)

[Ted]

Well that's a shame. Because young smart guys like you are just what WE need to keep VMX going from strength to strength. Look me up when you come back.

Cheers buddy

[nada]

Well that's a shame. Because young smart guys like you are just what WE need to keep VMX going from strength to strength. Look me up when you come back.

Cheers buddy

I'll still pop my head into a few meetings when work allows it, I just won't ride, I'll have a few jack cans waiting for ya old mate:) and I'll sit on a corner for the day:)

[FourstrokeForever]

very few, if any, founders of VMX will accept any idea of changing the way things have always been.

I'm a bit paranoid I suppose but I take it that statement is aimed at me .

You are being paranoid Mark. The statement was NOT directed at you. I know yourself and Col do a hell of a lot of work for the sport. However, there are those on the commission that do very little for the sport and appear to not want to listen to any new ways of thinking. It's not "old prick" bashing as someone suggested, more an observation on where some of the decision makers heads are at. As the saying goes, "you can't put a wise head on young shoulders" but including some "young" blood with fresh ideas can't hurt.
And I for one am certainly not suggesting moving cut off dates at this moment in time. I do feel that it should be a plan for the near future though, just to align bike age with target age rider. As we know, it's mostly over 40's riding vmx. Most 40 somethings ride evo and pre85, some pre90. The next generation of 40 somethings will most likely want to ride bikes that remind them of their youth.
There hopefully will always be the oddball 40ish guys and gals that just like building/riding/racing older bikes, like myself and a few others on here that will keep the older classes well and truly alive. It's obvious to me that even with the very short lead in time for this years Nats, the pre78
(as it is now) movement is alive and well going by the numbers Col has given us.
Lets hope that the event gets some decent coverage in our bike mags this year. Even our most popular mag for all things vmx has given very little space to past national titles in comparison to OS events.
On the subject of promotion with shows and the like, I did some work on getting 2 venues in central Victoria (my patch of earth) for display days, one was even in a popular winery where we could put on "display" rides as well, but when I presented the ideas to my former club committee, it got shot down in flames for one reason and another and nothing come of it. Again, I was just "making trouble", whinging and creating more work! The club had a number of MA official types steering it so it was very hard for me to understand their attitude(s).
This is basically where my attitude towards change falling on deaf ears emanates from. I did not intend on offending anyone here with my previous post. Apologies to anyone that did take offence