Future VERi bike eligibility?

[TM BILL]

If Vinduro states pre 85, except it and buy a model bike to suit, end of story, I have a perfect healthy Kawasaki KDX 250 1984 model on ebay going cheap, which would be one of the best rides you would ever have, but no these people are not contented with that, they have too buck the system to get there own way, got to have more travel and water cool.

See this is the attitude that gets nobody anywhere my view point is i just will not come to an event with an attitude like this anymore leave the old boys with there stuff over there in the corner and i will find something else to do with my bike its getting red plated and i can ride that 90 days a year for 90 dollars anywhere in the state on any road fire trail whatever

Thats enough from me i just think this whole pre 1985 is getting to clicky

Bruce

How is it getting to clicky  because your current bike doesn't fit in ?? its like those classes for over 60 yr olds , i mean how clicky is that FFS why cant us 50 odd yr old blokes enter that class  :'( i mean shit we have got too arms and too legs like them  its just not on .

I was going to join the local classic Holden owners club and take my MK 1 Ford escort to their rallies , turns out for some obscure reason my cars not elidgible  Clicky bastards 

[TM BILL]

Why not leave it at pre 85 and up it to pre 90 in say...2015. Then, you know what's going to happen don't you? At the very next event some punter will turn up with a 92 model and expect to get a ride because "it's only a couple of years out and the events are non competitive anyway, so what's the problem"?.....................
The old cutoff date hamster wheel just keeps on spinning and it just won't stop :

Exactly  regardless of what the cut off is theres always going to be someone with their own agenda who wants to fork the system .

Its always the same old reasons , but its a flow on model, its not a competitive event, i help make up the numbers , its what i rode when i was young, i dont fit in at modern events ( this ones easy , you dont fit in here either mate )

Sure this is a discussion but whatever the outcome you will always have that small percentage who want to fork with it . I dont think its really about the bikes or the vinduro scene , its probably what they do in all facets of life . Try to buck the system whatever it may be , its how some people get their jollys 

This must have been said tens of thousands of times " Buy a bike to fit the event , dont try to change the event to suit your bike " alternativley run your own event with a class to suit your personal bike make , model , year , capacity , colour and serial number  But thats not what its about though is it 

[mboddy]

Nathan is right. It is about the people.
Most of us come from the time when dirt bikes were a big thing.
There was a lot of variety and we all developed our own tastes.
Vinduro is about getting US all together to ride the old bikes we love.
I don't want to ride a Husky I want to ride my ITs.
The guy with the TT350 is just a guy like us but he loves his TT350.
Changing the rules to be more inclusive is always better than changing them to exclude the guys who love our events.
The rules need to reflect what guys like us want to ride.
If that means pre-85 then fine but if it means pre-87 or pre-90 then why not.

[nada]

Oh Dear!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[EBT]

See this is the attitude that gets nobody anywhere my view point is i just will not come to an event with an attitude like this anymore leave the old boys with there stuff over there in the corner and i will find something else to do with my bike its getting red plated and i can ride that 90 days a year for 90 dollars anywhere in the state on any road fire trail whatever

Thats enough from me i just think this whole pre 1985 is getting to clicky

Bruce

How is it getting to clicky  because your current bike doesn't fit in ?? its like those classes for over 60 yr olds , i mean how clicky is that FFS why cant us 50 odd yr old blokes enter that class  :'( i mean shit we have got too arms and too legs like them  its just not on .

I was going to join the local classic Holden owners club and take my MK 1 Ford escort to their rallies , turns out for some obscure reason my cars not elidgible  Clicky bastards 

Spot on there Bill 


Cheers Mick.

 

[Rookie#1]

Why not leave it at pre 85 and up it to pre 90 in say...2015. Then, you know what's going to happen don't you? At the very next event some punter will turn up with a 92 model and expect to get a ride because "it's only a couple of years out and the events are non competitive anyway, so what's the problem"?.....................
The old cutoff date hamster wheel just keeps on spinning and it just won't stop

Exactly!! Regardless of where a line is drawn human nature says that some will always try to argue the line, moving the goal posts will not solve the argument for eternity, it will just change the tone of the argument...... I find it so odd that folks can't just accept something for what it is, do you think it's unfair that you can't park in handicapped spaces?? Are you upset that you'll never get maternity leave?? Why can't you get a return servicemans pension just cause you didn't serve?? Pfft!!!!! Seriously guys just accept and enjoy something for what it is, if you can't do that then find something else to do that you might enjoy more.

[mboddy]

Why not leave it at pre 85 and up it to pre 90 in say...2015. Then, you know what's going to happen don't you? At the very next event some punter will turn up with a 92 model and expect to get a ride because "it's only a couple of years out and the events are non competitive anyway, so what's the problem"?.....................

Time for serious talk now. It is very much a problem if anyone rides a bike that is newer than pre-90.
Harrow and other events would not happen if they were not run under Motorcycling Australia (MA). Because MA provides the insurance.
Without insurance there is no event. MA is able to negotiate affordable rates overseas for all Motorcycle events held under them.
The MA rule book is the Manual of Motorcycle Sport (MoMS). It defines that a Historic Dirt Motorcycle is pre-90.
If we have bikes in our events that are newer than what is defined in MoMS then it is not a historic event.
Therefore we have to run under modern Enduro rules if we wish to run under MA. Very few if any of our bikes would pass the noise restriction let alone the other rules.
This is why Vinduro was pre-85. Because Historic Dirt Bikes were pre-85. Now they are pre-90.

It is very important from an insurance and legal perspective that if any of us see a bike newer than pre-90 in our events that we report it to the organisers.
If one of these bikes is involved in a serious accident then that could end Vinduro for good.
The other important issue that effects cuttoff dates is also a legal issue.
Vinduro is moving towards every bike requiring some form of registration. Next year's Harrow will require it apparently.
We do not have Vinduro specific rules in the MoMS. So what happens in court if there is a serious accident involving a member in the event and someone not in the event.
It may be a big issue if our 'Historic' cut-off date is newer than Victoria's Vintage Rego rules allow?

   

[XC83]

I'm sorry I missed the constructive / compelling argument for pre85 in the last few posts.
Sounds like a lot of battle weary scared vmxers to me.

I note that there were no eligibility issues at Connondale for the first competitive vintage enduro event, no issues enduro riders just entered in the appropriate class. The organisers gave some thought to to the classes and didn't blindly follow what was done in VMX. Smart people, and by the way I choose to ride my 84 instead of my 87 in that event, but its not about me.

VERi or any other club has the right to nominate what sort of bikes are used at their vintage events, but that doesn't mean that Vinduro is pre85, only that the club is limiting bikes to a particular era.

Some of the arguments are ridiculous

[Mike52]

If you get great heaps of riders turn up on pre 85 bikes then you can afford to turn away people on 86/87/88/89/90/2013 model bikes.

If you only get a few pre 85's turning up then what's the problem with people on moderns SUBSIDIZING our interests.
Seems crazy to turn them away.

If their entry fees keep my interests going then good on them and the more the merrier.

[Maicoman]

That's fine with Cookardinia if that's the way it is to be run. This wasn't the case with the first Cookardinia. If you thought your bike might be 1/85 build then you had to ask the organisers if this would be accepted as a follow on model.
But where do you stop. If an 88 TT350 is ok last year, what will be ok this year, mid 95?
I think what is great about a cutoff is that it makes the paddock seem like a trip back in time to an obviously arbitrary date (pre85) in this case. Everything you look at was made before this cutoff date, not just most things.

Sure as a basis we followed the pre 85 format for the first two events but the number of entrants has not increased as I would have liked. For whatever reasons people are not coming so by expanding the parameters this will encourage people to attend. There will be a few changes to the format this year.
   By drawing a hard line in the sand and saying Pre-90 this includes all the follow on models up to Dec 89. By 89/90 alot of bikes came in for majors changes like the KDX, DR's in preparation for the 1990's. It should be clear just from looking that these bikes would not be eligible.

[TM BILL]

[quote

Some of the arguments are ridiculous
[/quote]

Care to elaborate 

[Nathan S]

The issue for me is not where the line is (although I would advocate for pre-90, or drum-brake rear as a compromise).
The issue is how we deal with the bikes - and their owners - who are close to the line.

As I said earlier, and 3858 tried to quantify, the current approach of turning a blind eye has actually worked very well. The proposed changes seem to be ideologically driven, at the expense of pragmatism.
I note the deafening silence in response to my point about whether strict enforcement would be a positive in the longer term.

It makes no sense to me that a 1984 CR250 is welcomed with open arms, while a stock 1986 IT200 is (about to be) rejected. Especially when an IT200L/N/S with an '84 CR250 front end fitted is legal... Way too much focus on bikes, when you get into that sort of discussion.

More importantly:
It makes no sense to me to turn away people with old bikes that fit the general criteria.

[brucey]

See this is the attitude that gets nobody anywhere my view point is i just will not come to an event with an attitude like this anymore leave the old boys with there stuff over there in the corner and i will find something else to do with my bike its getting red plated and i can ride that 90 days a year for 90 dollars anywhere in the state on any road fire trail whatever

Thats enough from me i just think this whole pre 1985 is getting to clicky

Bruce

How is it getting to clicky  because your current bike doesn't fit in ?? its like those classes for over 60 yr olds , i mean how clicky is that FFS why cant us 50 odd yr old blokes enter that class  :'( i mean shit we have got too arms and too legs like them  its just not on .

I was going to join the local classic Holden owners club and take my MK 1 Ford escort to their rallies , turns out for some obscure reason my cars not elidgible  Clicky bastards 

Spot on there Bill 


Cheers Mick.

And exactely why you will never see me at a vinduro simple really  Bruce

[Slakewell]

Nothing like eligibility to get a thread racing on here. Gee I was only wondering the other day if we should make exceptions to Pre 78 rules to allow A4 Kawa and some Bullies in.

[albrid-3]

VERI RULES pre 85, Thats there rules, like it or not, you except it, then you buy a bike that suits the era, its pretty simple. If your bike does not suit the cut off date then sell it and buy a bike that does. Its pretty Simple. its not rocket science go and enjoy the ride.