Decibels

[Wombat]

Nathan, one of my concerns is that it's all about to change - and for no good or even relevant reason.
I understand it would be a rare VMX bike that would come in under 100db from the Factory.
We're under threat of modifying all VMX bikes to a standard they've never had to comply with.

For your point # 2 I'm not so sure a VMX 'strike' would overly concern MA.
I might be wrong, but isn't VMX a reasonably small part of the whole motorcycling spectrum under the MA control?
We'd be the ones not able to ride the bikes.
I'm thinking of those suggestions to boycott fuel because prices are getting too high; a nice thought but who is seriously going to do it and for how long?

Keeping bikes in their original condition is a large part of the 'fun'.
I don't want a silencer the size of a 10 litre bucket tacked onto the pipe.
That's OK for dungers and bitsas, but look at the effort the majority go to chasing swap meets and Global e-bay deals to get that hard to find period 'Suzuki foot peg'.
These machines are a part of motorcycling history and they should maintain their integrity.

   

[Nathan S]

Fair points Wombat.

I wasn't suggesting a strike, but was suggesting that if the new limit is enforced and most/every bike fails, then it's gonna be bad news for the rider, the clubs and MA.
Its one thing for one or two bikes per meeting to be knocked back, but if 70% are knocked back, then it will be very clear that the rules are unreasonable - particularly if a lot of those bikes are in good, unmodified condition.

CAMS is much less competitor friendly than MA, and even they will back down from a dumb rule if it hurts their bottom line. I am naive to think MA wouldn't do the same?

[mboddy]

We need some discussion on what we need to do to get our bikes under the limit.
For example:
Long aluminium silencers are better than steel or carbon fibre.
The stinger can be extended back into the body of the 2stroke expansion chamber.
Supertrap silencer rings can be added to the end of the alloy silencer to take the bite out of the sound.
Rubber plugs between the cylinder and head fins can take out the ringing.
Countershaft sprockets with the rubber lips to cushion the chain can reduce chain noise.
Thick rubber blocks inside the countershaft sprocket cover.

Can we wrap the exhaust pipe in something?
Should we be getting GMC to make us thicker walled pipes?

What other suggestions do you guys have? 

Does anyone else have any suggestions?

[Rosco400]

These are the Parliamentry Counsel office / government regulations from what i read, Protection of the Environment Operations (Noise Control) Regulation 2008 passed february 2008 ,Schedule 1 Prescribed noise levels for types of motor vehicles so why are we at 96db


http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fragview/inforce/subordleg+40+2008+sch.1+0+N

This gives a good read and makes things clearer
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/viewtop/inforce/subordleg+40+2008+pt.1-sec.1+0+N

[Graeme M]

Had a quick browse, doesn't this only apply to road going vehicles? The only bit that I saw that set a noise limit suggested the limit for bikes is 100dB (ie not built for use on a road after 1984). Even this law seems to support the idea that a Pre 1985 motorcycle is not expected to meet a 96dB limit.

[Rosco400]

Even this law seems to support the idea that a Pre 1985 motorcycle is not expected to meet a 96dB limit.

(d)  for any other motor cycle—100 dB(A). in this instance, legislation is open to interpretation

Thats the point, dont know if applies to road going vehicles but wouldnt make much sense to have louder on road than off road vehicles, question is if parliament allows 100db , why not MA, has MA set the 96db level from current legislation or from what they feel would be acceptable for future of motorcycling

As none of us are privvy to what goes on behind closed doors at MA, where would one go to find out who was the governing body who made the decision to apply the 96db rule and on what basis it was made,

I Believe Twist and Shouts first post on this thread to be correct answer and therefore MOMS regs may be possibly wrong because government legislation is the ruling body to MA and each individual state

[Wombat]

As none of us are privvy to what goes on behind closed doors at MA, where would one go to find out who was the governing body who made the decision to apply the 96db rule and on what basis it was made,

Yes pls!!!
A couple of the Board Members are on this Forum are they not?
Can you please advise where this ruling has come from?
Where did it begin - who moved the motion or tabled the suggestion?
Is this a fair question or must I write a letter to MA; can anyone advise?

Don't get me wrong, I have no evil intent to hunt anyone down...
But motions like this have a beginning - and someone somewhere moved a motion to discuss this matter and that motion was seconded.
I've only recently committed to this sport, and like everyone else I have a fair lump of money tied into it.

If the sport is about to be tipped upside down, shaken and dropped on its head, I think asking for a reason is a fair and just thing to do.
How - and more importantly why, did this ball get rolling?

[Rossvickicampbell]

Nathan - well said - I dont know whether my bikes are loud or not - I regularly repack my GMC pipe and it seems OK but is that what I am used to?  I also asked the question which didn't get answered (and it maybe scaring people off from going to Tassie) - if you do get pinged do you get a warning such as the AMA rules quoted?  I was told this is the case.  Both my bikes are as they came from the shop in their time - I cant do much else but I also cant get them checked (in WA) at CD5 to see if I am OK for Tassie - if they go over do I get a warning first time out?

Would be nice to know - also would be nice to know the result of our effort to appeal the ruling - how long before that comes out?

thanks

Rossco

[Noel]

Found this in the latest news letter,
no detail

http://www.ma.org.au/Folders/MA/News/March2008/DRAFT_ENVIRONMENTAL_SUSTAINABILITY_POLICY.pdf
http://www.ma.org.au/Folders/MA/News/March2008/DRAFTNational_Environmental_Code_and_Management_Plan_2_.pdf
Noel

[squirtmoto]

I always have a chuckle about noise testing VMX bikes after this incident.
I was lining up at the gate for the first moto of the last round of the 1999 Thunder-X
series, when one of the scrutineering "Natzies" pulled me back off the line to noise check my YZ465H
At that stage we had about 2min before the gate drop (this was a ploy at the time as a local rider was second to me in the points and if my bike failed it would give him enough points to beat me)
So the test began. It was 98dba at the muffler and 106dba at the barrel 
Nothing in the rules about engine noise The whole exercise made me pretty mad and the gate virtually
droped as I gated, hole-shot and checked out!!!
Turned out to be a great day for me as I went 1-1-1.

[Wombat]

Noel, thank you very much for those two links as they clearly state the MA enviromental policy (albeit in draft form).
Knowing 'why' something is happening certainly takes away from the mystery and assists in the understanding.

I find interesting this statement from the MA environmental policy which reads:
MA will seek to establish at all times the highest enviromental standards during the organisation of motorcycle events at all levels and will promote enviromental education among all motorcycle participants. MA will do so in close co-operation and assistance from the SCB's, clubs and organisations representing the motorcycle industry and riders.

This part in particular: MA....in close co-operation and assistance from.....clubs....representing.....riders.
Has this happened? Have we had the stated close co-operation with riders?
Or is election to 'the Board' seen as being handed a mandate to change any and all Laws by way of a meeting of this small group of people.

Policy change of this magnitude (noise levels) should not be left in the hands of the few.
It should be open to debate and discussed with those it will directly affect; we the sweaty majority - the members.
And let's not kid ourselves, several pages on this forum IS NOT opening the discussion to general debate.
Not every crusty old VMXer owns a computer or participates on this websites forum.

[firko]

News just in from my deep throat within MA. It appears that today MA have disregarded the 'huge' torrent of protest and have approved the 96db sound limit for Classic Motocross.

My informant also informed me that MA will not be sending a sound measuring officer to the Australian Classic Motocross Championships in Tasmania in June which means that the 96db limit won't be enforced at that particular event.
Of course, the above information is strictly 'off the record' and not official but I'm pretty sure it's on the money.

Once again the apathy of the vintage motocross fraternity has assisted MA to put another unjust restriction on our sport. I can't believe that our Classic Road Racing brothers can enjoy the 'luxury' of a 102db limit while we are restricted to a difficult to achieve 96db. The decision makers withing MA have got it terribly wrong but we're stuck with it from here on in as these decisions are rarely reversed.

Thanks to the dedicated and concerned VMXers who made the effort to fight this bit of restrictve legislation. What a shame we couldn't convince the 'silent majority' of the importance that a protest email held.

[Graeme M]

That is bad news alright. Again though I reiterate my points made earlier. I just don't get it. Why should a pile of emails from people who happen to read this forum be the major requirement to have this rule examined for its validity and usefulness and repealed? What if there was no OzVMX forum? How would riders have known that it was necessary to complain, or even that a meeting was being held? I'm sorry, but while I sympathise with your feelings Firko, I think the whole thing is bullshit.

Can someone (Mark or Dave or someone) please tell me what this meeting was that was just held, why it was so critical, and why there is no avenue for appeal?

I can't believe that an organisation aimed at administering this sport doesn't have a formal channel for debate, discussion, review and so on to which riders have access - fair and reasonable access. Not have it left to if they may have happened to have heard about it on some forum and decided to write in an email.

Tell you what, I'm happy to have the fight if someone can give me some insight in how. I will even go read the rulebook, but maybe it's time we got serious on this. I think it's a joke.

By the way, I did email MA (or Ross Martin) directly and got no acknowledgement. And where's the communication to members about this apparent decision?

[Nathan S]

Maybe - just maybe - the powers-that-be have no intention of ever enforcing this rule for VMX, and it exists purely to placate some outside influences?

Let's face it, if they're not sending someone down to this year's VMX Nationals, then they're not serious about it.

Plus what Graeme said.

[Tony T]

For me, it's more than just the physical 96db limit.
It's the fact that MA have place a restriction on an easy target and not across the board.
If they were truly serious about enviornmental issues, this should be applied across all facets of motorcycle sport, which is what I stated in my email to them. I'd like that question answered so I think I'll send another letter asking just that.
If there is any way our voice can still be heard on this issue, count me in to have another go.