The demise of manufacturing in Australia

[Marc.com]

An MBA is now considered with some derision Marc. The qualification was originally intended to make engineers/scientists more financially literate after 5-10 yrs at the sharp end but when uni's started letting BA grads in it was cheapened.

I agree Tim, I would view MBA as part of a package with your undergrad degree, that why I noted a technical degree supplemented by MBA which as you mentioned gives commercial education. You have to put the cart before the horse, in my case I intentionally did both BSc degree and MBA simultaneously, found a loop hole in the regulations and used my MBA subjects to exempt undergrad subjects shamelesly.  

[pancho]

 Two lines of thought from me.
1/ My worry is that in an alarming similarity to late 1920s to many people are living on income from shares and not actual work output.
 The result of this,the great depression.
 Looking around, its de ja vu.
2/ It seems the world economy is being dragged down by largely places like U.S.A where we see the big income earners not paying there way in taxes and demanding welfare cuts instead. The old 'cooporate greed is good for the country'.
 Also the example of Greece where it seems that 'the world still owes us a living even though we've sat on our A.. I mean hands for years'.


 cheers.

[pancho]

 By the way, my friends manufacturing business that has been in dire straights for the last year or so now has work till June. Maybe things are looking up.

[Nathan S]

I don't have any answers, but...

We've got to grow the hell up over globalisation.
If we get cheap stuff from overseas, then its at the expense of local producers/manufacturers - we can't have our cake and eat it too (at least not in the longer term).
A genuinely globalised economy would end up with every country having the same average income - and for a developed country like Australia, that would be a HUGE drop...

Until we all realise and openly acknowledge this, we'll be flapping aimlessly forever more.

What we need to do, is step back and say "Is globalisation working for us in the long term?" and have a sensible look at the whole enormous picture.
I suspect that if we did that, we'd end up bringing back in a whole lot of protectionist policies that have been progressively disbanded over the last 35 years or so - and that most of us would squeal like stuck pigs when we realised that everything is really f#$ing expensive again...

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The skills market has gone where the money is. Always has, always will.

There was a boom in IT years ago and the predictable skills shortage, so of course school kids wanted to be a part of it - good money and good employment prospects...
The reality is that we still don't have an excess of properly skilled IT workers - look at how much stuff gets shipped offshore... (refer also to the real effects of globalisation).
Similarly, I know plenty of tradies who are earning way more than uni grads - inc graduates with "proper degrees" - and that's before you look at mine workers who often aren't even trade qualified.

All of this goes in cycles, and we're currently at a point in the cycle where properly skilled people are finding it easy to get work regardless of their vocation. The question is whether the work pays "well enough".

I think there's a significant point to be made about how a combination of social conditioning and real estate prices have made us all think that we deserve to earn mega-bucks, and that creates a shortage of workers for unskilled (read: low paying) jobs. The simple reality is that you will genuinely struggle to survive on a full-time retail wage if you live in any Australian city and have to pay rent (or a mortgage, god forbid).
Instead, we all crap on about promotions and opportunities and our investments - thirty years ago, this was not normal conversation. We were much more easily satisfied and much less aspirational. A good mate of mine and his wife both work full time, while paying off their modest house in Blacktown - they literally cannot afford to have kids even though they both desperately want to... They're slaves to their (not particularly large) mortgage instead. I think its absolutely appalling that this happens. He talks semiseriously about waiting until their house is worth more (ha!) and then moving to 'the country' where its cheaper and they might be able to survive on one income - and away from their friends and families...

I can't see the current state of play being sustainable - as Mike52 said, "we can't all be chiefs".

Look at the way eveyone talks about the family home as a commodity nowdays. WTF is that about? Why can't it be a place to live, store your crap and raise a family, like it was when we were kids?
Why are so many new homes McMansions? What happened to people building two-bedroom houses that didn't cost eight times the average national wage? Hell, the new three beddy is an endangered species, despite the falling birth rate...

I honestly think that our collective aspiration is doing us no good. We're not happier for all of the extra crap we surround ourselves in.

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The Hawke/Keating era aim for "the clever country" is widely misrepresented nowdays, BTW. It was about the country having the intellectual skills in place rather than just relying on selling resources. It wasn't about devaluing trades, or forgetting that we need people to build houses.

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This became far more of a ramble and far more off-topic than I intended. Sorry!

[asasin]

I agree Nathan we seem to be too interested in gaining "shit" rather than living in our means.
 Rembember when it only too the one income to support a household

 Dont worry about rambiling , Its grumpy Friday

[VMX247]

We're not happier for all of the extra crap we surround ourselves in.

Want a bet !!       (referring to vintage mx gear)


Out of the 160 students in graduated class of 2009, about 10 went to Uni,the rest are employeed in apprentiships,Coles,Hair,Beauty,auto shops,building,mining etc and some of course produced kids  
Quiet alot of these stayed here in the local country towns.
cheers A

[EML]

the wife reckons that the Wasp is a 'trinket' Maybe we are all to blame but more trinkets-bring it on!!!

[bishboy]

Its very difficult to arbitrarily impose tariffs/quotas on certain type of goods as the countries of origin will retaliate and impose tariffs on our products and Australia is too small a global player (except for mining) too make any difference (can anyone say carbon tax )

Mandatory early retirement although sounding like a good idea to encourage employment will actually decrease consumer demand as less money being spent and therefore less need for things to be made/sold, bit of a vicious circle or a dog chasing it's tail, depends on your point of view (or which school of economic theory you follow)  The mining industry is making it hard for employers as everyone wants to work in a mine and earn a heaps of $ and only work one week out of three.

One of the reasons for high cost of manufacturing (if you exclude the interferance of unions) is the endless OHS requirements.  I was at a career seminar at the local school and the council was saying that you now have to have a certificate to use a whipper snipper  

I'm now looking to a MBA or masters after doing my undergrad nearly 20 years ago, MBA were cheapened a bit in the 80's and 90's when they were giving them away like candy and although it will cost a fortune and take ages, hopefully it will help with those senior mgmt positions, just have to get the right advice and do the right course at the right uni

Don't get me started on the farming sector and the abhorrent treatment of prime farming land by both the miners and the govt, how are we going to feed all these prople when the ground is scarred and the water is contaminated

[TooFastTim]

All of this goes in cycles, and we're currently at a point in the cycle where properly skilled people are finding it easy to get work regardless of their vocation.

Ha ha bloody ha!

[asasin]

Mandatory early retirement although sounding like a good idea to encourage employment will actually decrease consumer demand as less money being spent and therefore less need for things to be made/sold, bit of a vicious circle or a dog chasing it's tail, depends on your point of view (or which school of economic theory you follow)

I bet a young person with a job and a future will buy more ( all be it on hock ) than a older established person.

I also reccomended that a portion of the social money we save be redistributed to the elderly for a higher pension.

The older person has had their chance to get it sorted it is now time for the young to fall into the same holes

[mx250]

All of this goes in cycles, and we're currently at a point in the cycle where properly skilled people are finding it easy to get work regardless of their vocation.

Ha ha bloody ha!

I think it is 'Resume Builders' with all the 'paperwork' but no hands on experience that get the guernsey these days isn't it? It's not what you know it's who you know. Bullshit baffles brains. Office politics. "No one gets fired for buying an IBM".

I've seen that being the scenario many times - especially in the Public Service, Govt contracting and tendering generally. The Big End of Town is no where near as smart and deserving as they would like the plebs to think. It's more about position and power and scratching each others back. That's the secret (and the contacts) that is passed from father to son amongst The Establishment. 

[Marc.com]

I'm now looking to a MBA or masters after doing my undergrad nearly 20 years ago, hopefully it will help with those senior mgmt positions, just have to get the right advice and do the right course at the right uni

I did MBA with logistics major at the business school of the Maritime College ( UTAS), can't recommend it enough, what I learned on Monday I could use on Tuesday, a lot of the tutors come directly from industry as opposed to career academics . It took two years and 30K but I probably made that back in bonus's the first year after I graduated. 

[Nathan S]

All of this goes in cycles, and we're currently at a point in the cycle where properly skilled people are finding it easy to get work regardless of their vocation.

Ha ha bloody ha!

One of my rally mates is a landscaper. Like many self-employed tradies, he's been doing it very tough since the GFC and hasn't been shy about telling people this - sold his rally car, blah blah.
The reality is that after a few very lean months, he's now making a wage that's above the national average and not having a drama servicing his debts - but his wage has been significantly reduced from the stratospheric levels of a few years ago and they've had to change their lifestyle to suit.
He honestly thinks he's poor.

Similarly, last time I looked (post GFC), there were dozens of jobs advertised for my qualifications/experience - hell, I still get a phone call about every twelve months from a previous employer asking for me to come back... But I didn't consider any of them because they all involved a pay cut and/or reduction in conditions... Hence my next sentence being: "The question is whether the work pays "well enough"." 

Its a particularly Australian trait to always think that we're incredibly hard done by - we're forever whinging that we don't get paid enough, get taxed too much, work too hard, etc.
If we shut up and had a look at the rest of the world occasionally, we'd realise that we've got very little to complain about.
Hell, Howard's decline in the polls began just after he said that "the average Aussie has never been better off" - he was right, but we didn't want to hear it.

[vmx42]

Its a particularly Australian trait to always think that we're incredibly hard done by - we're forever whinging that we don't get paid enough, get taxed too much, work too hard, etc.
If we shut up and had a look at the rest of the world occasionally, we'd realise that we've got very little to complain about.
Hell, Howard's decline in the polls began just after he said that "the average Aussie has never been better off" - he was right, but we didn't want to hear it.

Nathan, you are a very brave man. Haven't you learnt that telling the truth will only get you into trouble - everybody wants to blame somebody else for their perceived problems - can't have individual responsibility now can we. That would be Un-Australian.

I can see why you aren't in politics, the incumbents wouldn't know what to make of you. Probably think you were some kind of alien or something. 

VMX42

[firko]

If we shut up and had a look at the rest of the world occasionally, we'd realise that we've got very little to complain about.
Hell, Howard's decline in the polls began just after he said that "the average Aussie has never been better off" - he was right, but we didn't want to hear it.

Hallelujah baby jesus!

I've been on the planet for six decades and politically aware for four of them and for as long as I can remember Aussies have been whingeing and whining about how the county's going down the gurgler. I've given up trying to convince people that we're doing pretty damn well when compared to most other societies in the world. I just let the miserable bastards carry on with the 'Great Australian Winge', it just plain isn't worth the trouble arguing the point with people who are convinced that we're doomed.  I've lived long term in three countries besides Australia and none of those so-called Utopias come within a cooee of the lifestyle and personal wealth we take for granted.

We are indeed the Lucky Country, I just wish more people believed it.