Nationals split: pre-75 or pre-78?

[VMX247]

Al - highly unlikely IMO - the pre 78 technology lends more towards pre 75 than later and additionally some places are struggling with pre 75 (unlike WA) so the numbers are needed there?  And where did pre 95 come from 

I've avoided your posts, cause I dont want to give my opinion on a forum of the Nationals in WA.
You say some are struggling and we have the extreme the other way.We have to meet in the middle.
I'm interested purely to get the riders at the start gate and preserve what we have got on a fair and equal base.
keep up    pre95
http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=15266.0

[090]

Ross is referring to you talking about pre 95 being around the corner. There wouldn't be a single club talking about introducing a class at all

It could possibly get pushed down to pre75 now from pre78, as the retro pre95 class's are coming through.
By the time MA has it all printed up and into the MOM's who knows what could happen between now and then with pre90-95.
cheers

The way you have written this, you are saying pre 75 split because of extra classes? If there was a pre 95 introduced, it would be more reason to put the split at pre 78.
Pre '90 is the new comer and not accepted by all. Pre '95 is no where!

[Davey Crocket]

I think all that heat over in the west is starting to effect their logical thinking.....pre 95 only exists in cyberspace...or after 2 cartons of Corona's drunk through a straw and by that stage you cant find the straw.

[firko]

Pre 95??? Stop that dirty talk immediately Alison or I'll send you to your room without any supper!

[VMX247]

Yes well by the time all the Nats class's are sorted it will be pre95  and by then things may have changed and moved on from what we have now in the West..fingers crossed. Maybe we should have become our own country back in the day when they where dividing up the country.Then we would have had our own VMX and wouldnt feel so bloody far from the majority.  :'(
oh sh..t did I just write that !!
cheers

[Rossvickicampbell]

Al - everyone is entitled to an opinion - you won't find a bigger supporter of the VMXWA club than me  - I luv it and have done since I arrived - however I still think a split at pre 78 is the way to go and I can voice this opinion - doesn't mean it will happen - particularly with us - but when I last looked it was OK on here to have a say?

And whilst on my apple box - I think it is political suicide to spend a heap of time getting consensus that - yes we need a split - without knowing where you want the split.  If the "proposal" was taken forward to MA a logical extension of the first thought is - if you want a split where do you want it (as worms asked) - so best to have that answer ready as well.

Have a good one

[VMX247]

Al - everyone is entitled to an opinion - you won't find a bigger supporter of the VMXWA club than me  - I luv it and have done since I arrived - however I still think a split at pre 78 is the way to go and I can voice this opinion - doesn't mean it will happen - particularly with us - but when I last looked it was OK on here to have a say? yep sure is ok for your opinion, and they are all very varied in wavmx    Im not saying anymore cause I know the intentions of too many and I dont want to end up in the dumbgeoun  ..Will catch you trackside some time or on the phone.
And whilst on my apple box - I think it is political suicide to spend a heap of time getting consensus that - yes we need a split - without knowing where you want the split.  If the "proposal" was taken forward to MA a logical extension of the first thought is - if you want a split where do you want it (as worms asked) - so best to have that answer ready as well.
and yes this is were we need the submissions of all OZVMX clubs.Split era deciders 
Have a good one

over and out
cheers A

[pancho]

  On a personal basis under present MOMs the best for me would be pre '78.
 The thing is, as I ride only dirt track these days not m/cross {because I become a    twenty year old when I grab a twist grip} my XT slider is ok in pre '78.
 If my XT was allowed in the pre '75 class which, as I read the 2011 MOMs, says "cut off at '76" Rule 18.10.0.1.   I would be fine with a split at pre '75.
 However the ruling 18.11.1 b "When four stroke be 2 valve push rod operation".
 This ruling not only excludes Yamaha XT machines but many other specials that were around since the sliders first appeared on the scene.
 I see a similar problem with rule 18.11.0.1. b and c.
   Title winning machines through the '60s frequently had wheel sizes other than those specified here. Remember for instance Squeakies ESSO powered slider, 21" front & 19" rear.
  In my humble?? opinion the classic classes can not be truly represented unless machines that WERE raced in the period designated are included.
cheers pancho.

[firko]

If my XT was allowed in the pre '75 class which, as I read the 2011 MOMs, says "cut off at '76" Rule 18.10.0.1.   I would be fine with a split at pre '75.

Pancho...I don't know where you got the 1976 cutoff for pre 75 my 2008 rulebook states
in Rule 18.10.0.1...For the pre 75 class, all performance parts must be manufactured before December 31 1974. There is no way an XT/TT500 Yamaha will ever be eligible for the pre 75 class due to their 1975 release date.

The 2 valve stipulation stems back to the original 2 valve class which was never intended to be a vintage class. It was designed to entice the then dormant Jawa and JAP sliders out of sheds and onto tracks. Back in the 90s I proposed that "production based" OHC engines be allowed to compete in the 2 valve class but the powers that be on the commission at that time didn't share my vision so it was knocked back. Interestingly, the big Condo meting every year had it's own sup regs and they allowed XT powered sliders. Chris Ellis proved how good a Yamaha slider can be when he battled shoulder to shoulder with the great Gary O'Brien on his JAP at the final Condo meet. Chris's efforts inspired a number of people to build XT sliders but the authorities stuck by their guns outlawing them.

You've raised a valid point that the rulebook needing a good going over, sooner than later. The wheel size stipulation is especially ridiculous and I don't recall it ever being used to refuse a machine. As it stands now Wally, your XT500 slider fits comfortably into the pre '78 class.

[VMX247]

I'm interested purely to get the riders at the start gate and preserve what we have got on a fair and equal base.
keep up    pre95- this along with a thread attached was intended for Ross to catch up on the pre90/pre95 movement

One can only hope there are  not to many minibike mums in real VMX and rule making positions  .   

Good to see you haven't lost your wooden shit stirring spoon for 2011 Wasp 
cheers A

[firko]

What the fluck are you two on about?

[Rossvickicampbell]

I often wonder Mr F?

[SAABCOMBI]

It really needs to be sorted out and clear to everyone, so everybody is clear about where they are heading.

pre 75 is clear. no change OR create a class just to suit 75, 76 models only and call it the modified class.


or 75 model and 76 models, 77,  omitt them to the pre 95 movement or whatever the cut off era will be.


All this bickering won`t solve the problem.

[pancho]

Hey Mark, my 2011 M.O.M.s which I just received, page 170
 
  Rule 18.10 ELIGIBILITY SLIDER CLASS. 18.10.0.1 Engines must have been manufactured before 31st. December 1976.
  Rule 18.11.1 Engine specification-solo.  The engine must:a]be a single cylinder
                                                                               b] When four stroke be 2-valve push rod operation.
 
To me this ALMOST lets in XT powered sliders [pre dec 76].
 Like you said about wheel sizes, how about the 350 twin Triumph powered sliders at Nepean in the 60's and one or more 250 twin Honda Sports powered sliders?
  cheers pancho

[SAABCOMBI]

what are we talking about speedway bike national here or motocross.