Author Topic: Sprite-UK/American Eagle-USA /Alron-AUST  (Read 343960 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline VMX247

  • Megastar
  • *******
  • Posts: 8766
  • Western Australia
    • View Profile
Re: Sprite
« Reply #105 on: July 28, 2009, 08:15:01 am »
Firko
Totally AGREE the number of Alron/ossa maybe one or two ??? :-\  
This bike was brought from Ron Lyons was his personal bike. This was brought from his home not his business.
 
Interesting ! are you saying Ron Lyons is still on this great blue planet of ours. ?
cheers
Alison, I'm lead to believ RL is still alive, but we haven't been able to get a contact yet.
I believe what VMW60 is saying is that he bought it from the guy who bought it from RL back in the day

Good oh -as all who I have spoken to didn't know where RLyons was now.
Different days different friends..Thanks JC  :)
Best is in the West !!

firko

  • Guest
Re: Sprite
« Reply #106 on: July 28, 2009, 12:40:30 pm »
I made a slight mistake in my previous post in relation to whether the bike has a fastback frame or not. The bike quite clearly has a fastback frame, the same as the Dean Rowe 405. I corrected the post. I also suspect that JC is correct in his assumption that the bike VMX60 now has is the bike in the middle top photo on page 40 of VMX#7.

After reading Ray Ryans piece in issue #7 of VMX I'm starting to believe that Ron Lyon was being a little sparing with the truth. Maybe it was ego or maybe there was a deeper seated reason to not tell the real story but there are many parts of the VMX interview that don't ring true. I've previously discussed the '60 bikes built' scenario and now think that less than 20 bikes were built in total with only two or three being OSSA powered, the rest fully imported complete Sprite 405's with Alron stickers fitted to the tank. I doubt that we'll ever get a truthful number from Lyons but will chase up the records from Sprite in the UK and see if they can tell me exactly how many bikes were sold and exported to Alron.

One point I have a problem with is that there were "Aussie made" frames. To quote the VMX piece "At Jandakot, Alron had their own in-house welder who built the frames from chrome-moly which Ron had to have specially inported. He( Lyons) quipps, "We probably had enough at any one time to build a run of 200 bikes, because we were obliged to order in such huge quantities"

Another point that seems to have been buried is the mystery as to whatever happened to the superflous frames and parts after the Alron concern went belly up. Once again I quote Rays article " Only three or four chassis 'went to the tip' but the rest survived as a job lot sold to an enterprising farmer who hoped to capitalise on its future value as parts. These components were destined to fade from the face of the Earth and the once busy Alron Jandakot factory fell silent. The new buyer had sheds full of old bikes at the time and simply bought the lot including many now rare Metisse components."

My take on the above statement is that the sale to 'a farmer' never happened because the parts never existed. If such a 'farmer with sheds full of old bikes' had existed I suspect that he and his stash would have come to light at some stage over the last 37 years.

I now strongly believe that the Alron saga was a scam with more untruths told than fact. Ray Ryan was one of our sports great journalists who instilled the concept of research into me. I now feel that if he would have taken some of his own advice and scratched the surface of the Alron take as told by Ron Lyons he would have found a far more interesting story that the sanitized snow job Lyons fed him back in 2000.

Offline Tossa

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2087
    • View Profile
Re: Sprite
« Reply #107 on: July 28, 2009, 01:40:55 pm »


One point I have a problem with is that there were "Aussie made" frames. To quote the VMX piece "At Jandakot, Alron had their own in-house welder who built the frames from chrome-moly which Ron had to have specially inported. He( Lyons) quipps, "We probably had enough at any one time to build a run of 200 bikes, because we were obliged to order in such huge quantities"


A well staged photographic stunt!!!
1973 Rickman Zundapp Metisse, to rebuild
1979 Husqvarna WR250
1974 Husqvarna MAG CR250

Offline JC

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1245
    • View Profile
Re: Sprite
« Reply #108 on: July 28, 2009, 03:49:24 pm »
Mark, Tossa,

I've come to almost the exact same conclusions. The more research you do the more dodgy it seems.

There's only been a few pics shown of Alrons from back in the day - the same few over & over - the blue registerable one w the diff frame, the one said to be the MXer (but its not), & a 400. And the author(s) of the TW articles never actually rode a bike!

The "factory at Jandacot" it seems was just a shed, nothing more, & w no workforce. The "production line" didn't exist as far as I can tell. There is one shot (often published, including in VMX #7 where its cropped from the original) of 6 x 400's in a shed being assembled, but there's no workforce anywhere in sight & there's no guarantee its Alrons in Perth , not Sprites in UK.

However it does look like an Aussie shed (corrugated iron), & there's no union jacks (or Alron symbols) on the tank so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt & say it probably is Alrons being assembled in Perth. My guess is that these were the only 6 that came in. RL himself is quoted as saying "they were a disaster" & got a bad reputation quickly. Why would you get another shipment???

One line in one of the articles says something like "there are always about 6 Alrons being assembled" infering a continuous production run. My take is that they remained there (partly assembled as in the pic) cos nobody was buying them & he didn't bother completing their assembly till he had an order.

Hopefully tomorrow I'll get a chance to type up all the anomolies in the press articles of the day.

But hot off the press is news of another Alron. I can scarcely believe it but Huskyevo just rang to say another 250 Ossa-engined one turned up at a VMX/Vinduro on the weekend!

We'll hunt em all out yet!  Stay tuned.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2009, 02:30:11 pm by JC »

Offline JC

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1245
    • View Profile
Re: Sprite
« Reply #109 on: July 29, 2009, 11:50:42 am »
OK, lets look at some of the inconsistencies & perceived inaccuracies in the press articles of the day & since.

There are numerous incidental ones like "Brian Mitcheson made his 360 perform creditably" (he never owned/raced a 360/400/405) & "early in 73 RL wheeled out the first production Alron"  (ie 250 'real Alron', but it was early 74). These can likely be passed off as oversights, but there are more serious ones which appear to be "trying to create an image" but which cast doubts on the credibility.  eg:

"RL's men will assemble them". Word from the west is that there were no "men" or "factory". They had a couple of employees at the retail shop ("headquarters"), but it seems the only "men" at the Jandacot shed ("factory") where the bikes were slowly assembled were RL himself after-hours (he spent most of his day at the retail shop apparently), & a fitter from the nearby airport (also after hours) who 'bent a few tubes & welded a few brackets' & probably made the frame for the blue bike featured in 5/74 TW.

There is one pic of the "production line" & another of the "factory at Jandacot". You'd think it would be safe to assume that the "production line" is in "the factory". ie same building. Trouble is, its hard not to conclude that the pics are of/in diff buildings. One is brick & trimdek walls (perhaps a garage attached to his house ??); the other is a corrugated iron shed (said to be the "factory at Jandacot").

In 6/73 frame jigs were said to be "now being made by a Perth civil engineering firm", but in 11/73 we have the "first ever shots of the 250 enduro prototype" - still in a Sprite frame, not even w engine plates yet.

The 400s were said to have had "development in WA by works rider Ron Johnston". You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that they were rebadged Sprites developed in UK, tho they may have had a diff aircleaner as was claimed.

There is a big-deal made in 11/73 of the drama involved in getting "this special tube" & a suitable pipe-bender to bend it for the 250 frames, but in 5/74 the first production "real Alron" is said to be made of "a bit heavier" tubing  cos "we couldn't get the right tubing in time".

"Sprite will ship to the Alron works at the rate of about 15 a month initially of the 405 machines".  Well...dreams are free I suppose & you might as well dream big.

"He planned an initial run of 10 (250) machines & then 40 a month for 3 mths to test demand". Ditto

Compare the following 2 statements from the same article: "The registerable machine gave way to the pure off-roader in the face of heavy demands from WA cattle stations".  cf   "RL had to cater for his biggest market. And that meant the WA enduro enthusiast". Which is it? the cattle stations or the enduro enthusiast? And how big was the WA enduro scene/market at the time? The guys who rode the "development bikes" in WA competition don't remember any Alrons in competition (MX or enduro) apart from their own. Still more, a later report from RL's father Syd states they sold "30 250s, all MX except for three road/enduros". So many contradictions! Tall stories??

And "heavy demand" ??

Even years later, the questionable statements continue:

"The first two pre-production prototypes (250s) winning the WA enduro championship in 72".
It seems none even existed in 72.  See above where the 1st pics of the incomplete prototype 250 appeared w a splash in 11/73. Mitch came close to winning the championship one year on an Alron but fell short.

"Front forks by Marzocchi" - yeh, right!!

"the 405MX...w Sprites copy of  Husq engine mounted in the Australian frame & w Australian auxiliaries". Hmmm - they're all sprite frames.

"At the time, Alron operated three retail shops in Perth". Their one shop was at 3 diff locations, but apparently they never had 3 retail shops at once.

Since Rickman (which they were now importing) didn't make a 250 enduro, "we went ahead & created a local Metisse model of our own  - a road registerable Montesa MX-based model w a wide ratio gearbox & built about 30 of them". No pic of such a model has ever appeared. None of those 3 guys I spoke to had ever seen or heard of it, incl their east coast dealer who sold a lot of Rickmans for them.

"The once busy Alron factory... fell silent". Was it ever busy? See above

"Alron had their own in-house welder who built the frames from Cr-mo". Ditto.



I remember there being a lot of skepticism back in the day about this venture. For me, its more than skepticism now.

Now for a little that does appear to be the truth:

Of the 400/405s it was stated "The kindest way of looking at the Sprite venture is to say it didn't work. They were... troublesome. Part of the bother stemmed from casual assembly in England, but trouble seemd to follow trouble... It didn't take long for the Sprite's general bad reputation to spread". And my guess is that very few sales followed. Thus, "there is now (11/73) a continuous line-up of about half a dozen Alrons under construction in the factory" - cos the 400s weren't shifting/selling, it seems to me on accouint of their bad reputation. (the 250s hadn't been built yet). Mitch says their gearboxes were soft, as if the metallurgy &/or heat treatment wasn't right, or at least wasn't consistent as there are some reports that some 400s were OK. My guess is that Mr Hipkin didn't have the QC at the foundary up to scratch.

And: "Rickman were building wonderful bikes which simply took care of my problem... They gradually took over from our own Alron bikes". ie The Alrons didn't die cos of lack of dealer interest/support as he claimed in the press, but in Mitch's words cos he lost interest when he saw what Rickman were producing & he realized he couldn't match it.

So how many were built? Apart from the blue bike in TW (& VMX #7), the "development bikes" ridden by Roger Weir in MX (a 400 & a 250) & by Mitch & Graham Sully (250s) in enduros, Brian Clarkson sold a handful (as best he remembers, a couple of 400s & a couple of 250s) & bought his own 400. That amounts to only about half a doz of ea. It doesn't mean there weren't more, but... we have our doubts. (But lets hope our doubts are proven wrong)

Currently I know of 3 x 250's in existence & a few 400s & Mark has indicated traces of a couple more 400s & perhaps another 250. If you have one or know the whereabouts of one, pls speak up.


« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 11:03:02 am by JC »

Offline Tossa

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2087
    • View Profile
Re: Sprite
« Reply #110 on: July 29, 2009, 06:31:15 pm »
I can't remember ever seeing RL ride a bike, he was a bit of a hippy!!.  never rode off road
1973 Rickman Zundapp Metisse, to rebuild
1979 Husqvarna WR250
1974 Husqvarna MAG CR250

Offline VMX60

  • A-Grade
  • ****
  • Posts: 483
    • View Profile
Re: Sprite
« Reply #111 on: July 29, 2009, 07:59:42 pm »
JC,

Your right hand side photos as requested 

Every body still doing their homework on the Alron story - bloody amazing !!

Makes my 10 year wait worth while, as all members of the VMX family are always after that next treasure.

My 20 years plus of chasing Ossas all over the State (and Euro bikes) only part I have ever found that I know of -

Alron 400 model parts; new cyclinder head and conrod kit, both used to repair a 400 Husky. Seller claimed to have a shed full of Alron bikes and parts, which we have all heard before, bullshit !!

As Firko said WHERE ARE THEY  ???

I just keep looking at the photo in VMX #7 - could this really be this bike. There sure is enough tacked on bits and pieces to claim it's a development model.

The guy I purchased this bike off quoted RON "after much R and R this was the hot pipe setup. Bloody Hell it's a DT2 standard pipe. Maybe better than a SDR Ossa pipe.

I think the reason this bike survived is because the lower left hand fork leg it cracked right through to the axel. Obviously retired to the back of the shed 20 plus years ago.











 
« Last Edit: July 29, 2009, 08:05:18 pm by VMX60 »

Curly3

  • Guest
Re: Sprite
« Reply #112 on: July 29, 2009, 09:02:16 pm »
Looks like a TS 250 muffler to me?

firko

  • Guest
Re: Sprite
« Reply #113 on: July 29, 2009, 11:33:48 pm »
The pipe's from a DT1 Yamaha Steve. So this is the trick pipe old Ron developed for the machine.  :-\

Shit, this saga gets even better  ;D. I really think there's a great story in this, starting right back with Frank Hipkins manipulation of the British sales tax system, the odd and mysterious downfall of the McCormick Corporation in the USA through to our dear old "Fibber Ron" Lyon and his non existant factory and the almost identical story with the ill fated BVM in Belgium.

The whole Sprite/American Eagle/BVM/Alron story is littered with con men, scoundrels, liars and cheats. Every single version of Frank Hipkins Sprite went belly up with investors and other interested parties left with little to show for their investment dollar.

This is one of the best unknown stories in motocross history and it's our little "forum detective agency" that's uncovering the dirt. This is why I love doing what I do. Congratualtions to JC, VMX60,Tossa, my mate Jonesy, Clarko and all of the other punters who've added to this great yarn. I wonder what else we can uncover?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2009, 11:36:16 pm by firko »

Offline VMX247

  • Megastar
  • *******
  • Posts: 8766
  • Western Australia
    • View Profile
Re: Sprite
« Reply #114 on: July 30, 2009, 08:45:27 am »
You lot of little faith,we've only been digging for a short while and not looked in all the sheds and contacted all people involved in the story and life of the Alron.
Give it time,even if it takes another few years.
Time to take a plate of scones around to RL and have a cup of erble tea Tossa.  ;D
Keep digging   8)
Best is in the West !!

Offline Tossa

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2087
    • View Profile
Re: Sprite
« Reply #115 on: July 30, 2009, 09:56:16 am »
You lot of little faith,we've only been digging for a short while and not looked in all the sheds and contacted all people involved in the story and life of the Alron.
Give it time,even if it takes another few years.
Time to take a plate of scones around to RL and have a cup of erble tea Tossa.  ;D
Keep digging   8)

I don't know if it was of little faith, but understand where you are soming from.  When the name Alron was first mentioned in this thread, it brought back a lot of memories for me as I spent quite a bit of time in the Alron shop, the original one being in Beaufort St Highgate, they even did some work on my Police Bike (illegal mods!! lol). Most of that time was chasing my old man (Mitch) who spent a lot of time there, basically every day.

The statements made earlier about works riders and developers, made me query what involvement my father had in all this, as i had remembered that he too was a "work" rider. When everyone talked about the factory at jandakot, it came to light from conversations with dad that the photo session was a set up with a pipe bending machine and a few sprite frames scattered around.  no staff were every seen as there were none (I believe there were claims of up to about 40 people working in the so called factory!!!).

The lives of Ron and Al lyons can only be described as a bit bazaar, and I don't want to express what occurred in this forum as it is a bit shady, JC would know where I'm coming from and I believe that he is still investigating.

This really is a damn interesting thread, with great contributions from all.  It's amazing what a jog of the memory can cause, lets keep going.

Alison/Steve, bottle of red at Wandering and two chairs, might get you some very interesting info.  Am trying to talk the old man into attending the event.  Let me tell you he has some very interesting info on all this and lots of other stuff regarding mx and enduro's in the state of WA during the 70's

1973 Rickman Zundapp Metisse, to rebuild
1979 Husqvarna WR250
1974 Husqvarna MAG CR250

mx250

  • Guest
Re: Sprite
« Reply #116 on: July 30, 2009, 10:17:38 am »

Alison/Steve, bottle of red at Wandering and two chairs, .......

Don't forget the tape recorder ;) ;D.

Offline VMX247

  • Megastar
  • *******
  • Posts: 8766
  • Western Australia
    • View Profile
Re: Sprite
« Reply #117 on: July 30, 2009, 11:00:04 am »
Have to be a soft red-not that rough stuff  >:(  :P  :'(

I have made phone calls this morning and have been in the deep South West and now have landed in Perth with the phone info.
Expecting a phone call again this morning-may end up at Mitch's home number   ;)   ;D
Some say on the phone..."gee your going back in time love "  ;D keeps there brain active remembering,it's good for them.  8)
The media and written articles are an interpretation of one persons mind,so don't believe every thing you see/read.
In saying that Tossa there quiet probably is alot more about this one great Australia Dream that didn't end up at the top end of the market or the "pointy end" as some say.  8)
I'll have me eyes peeled forever now looking for a Sprite or Alron .  :o
cheers



Best is in the West !!

Offline Tossa

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2087
    • View Profile
Re: Sprite
« Reply #118 on: July 30, 2009, 11:17:28 am »
Have to be a soft red-not that rough stuff  >:(  :P  :'(

I have made phone calls this morning and have been in the deep South West and now have landed in Perth with the phone info.
Expecting a phone call again this morning-may end up at Mitch's home number   ;)   ;D

cheers
Do you want his number
1973 Rickman Zundapp Metisse, to rebuild
1979 Husqvarna WR250
1974 Husqvarna MAG CR250

Offline VMX247

  • Megastar
  • *******
  • Posts: 8766
  • Western Australia
    • View Profile
Re: Sprite
« Reply #119 on: July 30, 2009, 11:22:10 am »
Have to be a soft red-not that rough stuff  >:(  :P  :'(
I have made phone calls this morning and have been in the deep South West and now have landed in Perth with the phone info.
Expecting a phone call again this morning-may end up at Mitch's home number   ;)   ;D
cheers
Do you want his number

If you like too hand it over....but I ain't cooking scones   :D    ;)
cheers
Best is in the West !!