OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Bike Talk => Topic started by: GMC on September 28, 2007, 10:44:11 pm
-
We've debated boost bottles & the infamous No-Dive system before but how about these handlebars I found an an 80's magazine.
Maybe I should jig up to make replica's :D :D
Hope it's readable.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Hyd-HandleBars-2.jpg)
-
Just the thing for steering precision... :-\
-
This bike look like an 82 RM250, by the end of the year DB's 82 RM250 had a Twin Air one sided airbox, Simons UDX60 forks, M Robert numberplate/rear fender and who knows what else...
Anyone recall the YZM 250 of say 89-91 with a carbon fiber flat spring on rear shock? It mounted on the bottom of swingarm-and was falt like a leaf spring. Weird........
How about Jones Ball Grips? They looked like OURY grips, but had a spherical ball cast in the end of the grip...lind of looked like well, you couldn't make them today in our politically correct world...
Any more?
Thank you, James
-
I reckon you would go broke pretty fast, considering none turn up in their packets on evilpay.I would offer that the test rider could do with some addidtional compression damping
-
I'd forgotten about those............... I'll bet there was heaps more dumb inventions right up there with 'boot savers' etc ;D
Anyone recall any?
-
I love boot savers, they were really cool.
-
:D hey! I had a nice pair of booty savers as well..actually I had quite a few pairs :P
they were in the cheapy bin next to the plastic levers at McLeods in the days when you could actually go there and buy quality things..in the end, these so called boot savers got cut up and reworked into crossbar pads, the beginning of my patchwork and quilting interests 8) those bars are trick but not as trick as rubber bars! Long live the PP No-Dive!! I must fit that someday soon as well ;D
-
Re Wacky inventions = sidecars???
-
gotta love the good old "visor view"
as worn by malcom and steve in that movie they made
-
Yamaha remember those huge air cans thingos on the top of forks (late70s?) were pretty neat and nicely wacky too ???
-
i got some sets of somthing similar not just the yaamha AIR cans but from what i think where AFM on some honda forks, they are a dial pressure guage on a threaded fork cap that are screwed inplace instead of the top fork tube cap, they have like a small dial similar to a regulator and they showed the pressure in your legs, from memory you can fill or bleed from the car valve under the guage and i have one set in red and one in black. so they musta been on at least 2 differant bikes, but not sure what year/models these where on, i should measure the tubes.
-
Freakyshow,I have set-up like this laying around somewere. The one I have all screws onto the air valve already in the fork cap. Guage and T piece on one side and elbow with a cross over pipe on the other. I had the same set up back in my hoon days on a old 500 triple Kawasaki. :)Darcy
-
I had the same set up back in my hoon days on a old 500 triple Kawasaki. :)Darcy
All My Days are "HOON" Days
-
I notice the first thread says we've debated boost bottles but i unfortunately did'nt see that one, and i am busy deciding whether to remove mine or add one? bike started as IT465 now busy getting converted to yz so i wondered if it would be good to drop the boost bottle. I also have moto tassinari reeds v force which i am going to install. I have read pros and cons regarding the boost but never seen a dyno result...
-
Just install the V force and ANY thoughts of adding boost bottles will rapidly evaporate.
-
from what ive read a boost bottle wont increase HP or speed. if designed correctly it can idle smoother, accelerate smoother and eliminate throttle hesitations, however i have a article by Gary Treadwell (well known tuner) and he was really into them and was making a lot of them and said they defintley do work and he said that at the time he thought further development and testing could see a boost bottle give a oversall slight increase in HP. Ive never actually heard any one say that they will do that though. Ive actually got 3 DG boost bottles so i will end up one day seeing if i can notice if they do anything. I have spoken to other users of them and they have said they definitley noticed smoother idling, accleration and less throttle hesitation on rapid opening/closing of the throttle.
-
Whats that old saying about dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun ???
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Yamaha-RD-700-Special_W0QQitemZ150170215267QQihZ005QQcategoryZ10490QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
-
Speak to someone who has dyno'd a V-Force, they about 2-3hp(on an 80 shifter kart) from idle to sign off, no development just bolt on.Simulators have exposed boost bottles as a bit of bling/placebo effect.
Now there is a product that is a basicly $4 worth of electrical parts selling for the bargain price of $350.They are called 'Vowel Feline' ;)
Corrrrrrr cyclegod I want that RD 700 got a nice article on the bike in Classic Bike.Cheap at $10k.I might buy it and ride it home Ewan & Charile style.The smell and sound when it come on pipe running R30.Does it get any better. ;D ;D ;D
-
A boost bottle should help bottom end, in the same way that the 'low end' setting of Honda's ATAC exhaust power valve did.
But as a non-variable component, it would be a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul.
RD700 = way cool. Think of how scary a Kawasaki triple is (not that I've ever ridden one) and then give it more revs, more power, less 'big bang' effect....
-
Think of how scary a Kawasaki triple is (not that I've ever ridden one) and then give it more revs, more power, less 'big bang' effect....
I seen a six cylinder engine made out of 2 H2 750's (thats a 1500cc two-stroke...eep ; :o)
-
ive also seen variable boost bottles for scooters and small bikes made by Malossi.They use a rubber concetina chamber that compresses and expands depending on the suction forces or what ever. they claim its a better design than the no variable fixed bottle size
-
Hmmm there is a mob (in England I think) that graft Kawa triples together side by side. have photos somewhere of 5,6 ,7 and (!!!!) cylinder efforts. Must find as the exhaust chamber plumbing is mind boggling!!! Tim
-
my wacky invention was a anti dive setup on a XL175 ,on slicks for a Amaroo Hillclimb club day,(don't ask ;D),got the rocker ratio a tad out,it actually raised the front end when i hit the picks ::) ::),ooops ???,cheers Mick
-
That's actually 1 bloke who mostly does all that Alec/Alex Milldren something like that.He is actually bored(because he's done so many) 5 cylinder H2's, he made a V8 Z1800(2 X Z900's) and was planning on a V12 Z 2600(2 Z1300's).The amazing part is not only does he do all the welding & machining in house, most of it is on an 60's vintage Myford Super 7 lathe, the H2's and the V8 run like Swiss watches. Nothing weird or wacky about him he is a genius.
-
Can't understand why this invention didn't catch on. They look very practical ... and multi purpose too!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Jones-Grips-Vintage-Maico-Montesa-Bultaco-Husky-AHRMA_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35610QQihZ018QQitemZ280168612320QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
-
Those V8s made out of bike engines were used a bit in speedway midgets back in the late 70s/early 80s. Apparently they failed because they didn't have enough torque and too many revs resulting in too much wheelspin. They're still toying with the idea though.
http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/07/31/sesco-air-and-oil-cooled-suzuki-v8-engines/ (http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/07/31/sesco-air-and-oil-cooled-suzuki-v8-engines/)
http://www.springsspeedway.com/default,837.sm (http://www.springsspeedway.com/default,837.sm)
-
Hi Guys,
The poor old Boost Bottle cops a lot of flak - it never claimed to be a universal panacea.
Garry Treadwell is right, they do work and they do what was claimed. The Hiemholtz Reservoir is a simple device that recognises that there are [undeniable] pressure variations in the intact tract of a two stroke engine and aims to enable external tuning of those pressure waves. Nobody ever claimed massive horsepower increases, all they were ever claimed to do was to smooth out the throttle response in certain rev ranges.
Its a bit much to compare them to a V-Force reed - hardly comparing apples against apples. Their benefits don't show up on a dyno [as many other beneficial engine power characteristic don't either], it is just a 'feel' thing. History is full of successful race teams ignoring supposedly superior dyno charts and winning with engines that have the right 'feel' that enables the rider to perform the way they want to. It is a lesson [for example] that Honda constantly fails to learn unless their current top rider has the clout to direct their energies in productive directions - think Mick Doohan and Valentino Rossi. It's one of the things that makes motorcycling more of an engineering challenge than auto racing.
The other funny thing is that the old Boost Bottle probably added $2.00 to the cost of the bike, didn't compromise reliability, didn't add any significant complications or weight.
Personally I think the poor old Boost Bottle has been very badly treated by history. I think we should lobby the authorities to have it rightfully acknowledged as a true '70s wacky invention. Long live the boost bottle.
Yours in wacky inventions
VMX42
-
My old mate Honest Muz was a true believer and a man ahead of his time - remember the V8 Vegie Juice fiasco.
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s255/vmx42/Boost_bottle.jpg)
Long live Boost Bottles.
VMX42
-
I may be a little behind the times on this and it maybe more common that I thought but the other afternoon whilst driving my own wacky van down the road I was followed by a motorcycle with 2 wheels at the front :o I didn't cop much of a look other than from front in the rear veiw mirror but both wheels turned and leaned in synch :-\ seemed very stable and around bumpy corners tracked well..maybe my ill handling van emphasized this fact as it commonly drifts 3feet in any direction even on a flat straight road..it seems like a genuinely good idea..not the ill handling but the bike with 3 wheels..it must have been bigger than a scooter as it ventured onto the highway which scares me AND my van! :( from the front it did look the size of a Honda Majesty or something a little bit smaller. I don't know what it was but it was rego'd and it did have twin front wheels and it was very different and it had me rubbing my eyes, questioning my vision and what I'd been smoking 8)
-
Bombadier have a new three wheeler Doc thats spose to be a bit of all right
(http://images.worldcarfans.com/articles/2006/12/22/6061222.002/6061222.002.1M.jpg)
-
yeah Pokey, it got me interested as to what it was but I couldn't find anything like it online. Smaller than that, the front tyres looked about the size of a 125 roadie except 2 of em' ???
-
I was sitting having a lazy outdoor long black at Bill and Tonys in Stanley st Darlinghurst the other night when one of these thingos parked right in front of me. I thought I'd seen just about everything to do with motorcycling until I checked this out. They look pretty cool and the Italian bloke who owned it reckons it handled great. Is this what you saw in the rear view mirror Doc?
http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=44646 (http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=44646)
http://www.italiaspeed.com/2006/cars/other/piaggio/05/mp3/mp3.html (http://www.italiaspeed.com/2006/cars/other/piaggio/05/mp3/mp3.html)
-
Yup! I that's what I'd reckon I saw Firko. The front looks very familiar and the wheels much closer to the size. I'd love to have seen more of it, watching from the front as it followed it was pretty bloody amazing.
-
Weren't they the ones Mick Doohan was promoting last week on the TV news?
Maybe you got rounded up by the champ Doc :)
-
i heard that Brad Lackey hooked a boost bottle up to one of his suzukis and then got told to remove it by one of the factory suzuki mechanics ;D
the 2 boost bottles at the bottom of this page are mine, ive got 3rd one too. the gold one is getting re annodized. whether or not i will use them i dont know, but they will make nice display items!. worth a try though.
http://www.vintagefactory.com/New%20Index.htm
-
wish I had a pic of my old rooster booster on my 80B :-\
polished brass inlet pipe inserted carefully into manifold, braided hose to highly polished Brasso™ tin (empty of course!), bling stainless utilux hose clamps all round making sure it was in full veiw...it weighed nothing, did nothing but it looked the goods ;D
-
Graeme Morris in Necastle sells the Paggio MP3 he was doing some insame figure 8's in the steet, they turn and stop on a 5 cent bit.Graeme can't wait for the 500 to take to Eastern Creek for day.There must be some thing in it as Yamaha have released a 4 wheel version.
On a less wacky note pity they couldn't do something like this with a dirt bike. I used to want one of those retro Ducati's not anymore.They also came out with an old 400 FOUR style 1100. Brilliant. This one just needs a couple of 'Marchal' bug eyed spotties,3 crazy Frenchmen and 24Hours ;D ;D
http://jalopnik.com/cars/tokyo-auto-show/honda-cb1100r-concept-313674.php
-
I thought this was pretty wackie at the time. I have meet and spoken to Ian a few times and he admitted the handling was pretty odd. I'm not quite sure what advantage he was trying to get - it wasn't traction alone.
http://home.pacific.net.au/~iwd/2x2x2/ride/index.html
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/mx250a/ianride2.jpg)
Brilliant work and execution mine you.
-
MX250, what's not shown in the 2x2 pic is the 40ft tri-axle trailer he's towing ;D
-
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NOS-post-vintage-Ahrma-no-dive-kit-NIB-yamaha-suzuki-RM_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34284QQihZ011QQitemZ320181063427QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
-
Wacky inventions alive & well at Broadford Dirt track.
Didn't get the chance to ask the owner what they felt like
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Misc009.jpg)
-
I thought this was pretty wackie at the time. I have meet and spoken to Ian a few times and he admitted the handling was pretty odd. I'm not quite sure what advantage he was trying to get - it wasn't traction alone.
http://home.pacific.net.au/~iwd/2x2x2/ride/index.html
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/mx250a/ianride2.jpg)
Brilliant work and execution mine you.
Ive known Ian for years & I guess he is somewhat of the Nutty Professor.
That bike was both weird & brilliant at the same time. I was invited to view it before it's debut along with a few others in what must have been early / mid eighties. He set out to reinvent how a motorbike should be put together. He didn't build it thinking he was going to win anything with it, it was a design exercise.
As I remember it had a hydraulic pump for a gearbox that drove hydraulic motors in the hubs of back & front wheels.
It had single sided swingarms back & front, which reduced the steering lock so he made it 2 wheel steer to make up for it. The barrel was rumored to be based on a Maico 400 which he had cast. At one stage he was planning to have hydraulic suspension that could be raised or lowered for different conditions. That would be handy now with todays tall bikes.
I believe it ended up in a museum in the UK.
Their is in modern times a two wheel drive kit that is fitted to a Yamaha, I think built by Ohlins?? It has a small hydraulic pump on the countershaft sprocket that drives a hydraulic motor in the front hub. I often wondered if it was inspired by Ian's bike.
Last I heard he was thinking of building a helicopter :o
-
Dont worry about them bars cause he was at the pointy end of the 125 class 2nd i think so they must go allright. That had some innovations on it did you get them all .?.
-
I spoke to Ian for an hour or so when he had the FZR 400 based V8 running round, it fairly bristled with innovative thinking an was a credit to his design/machining skills.He fired it up and sounded fine til it went out on the track and promptly dropped a valve :'(.Last I heard of Ian he was trying to raise funds for a MotoGP V8 :o.There is a good story in AMCN about 2 fellows, lots of CAD & CNC work, $135,000 and a top line rider. Ends with "what the highside and cartwheel through the gravel trap didn't destroy the ensuing fire finished off" Heartbreaking
-
boost bottles look cool & were very Sano back in the day - what other reason do you need to use them , who cares if it doesn't improve the power - you FEEL faster with trick bits on your bike
-
boost bottles look cool & were very Sano back in the day - what other reason do you need to use them , who cares if it doesn't improve the power - you FEEL faster with trick bits on your bike
Have a look under the bonnet of a modern fuel injected 4 cylinder car, they have "Boost bottles" on the inlet to the fuel injection. Zit the same principal? Does it work on four stroke bikes too? It seems it's just another way of adding more volume.
-
And now for todays lessaon :) :) :)
The bottle that you refer to in a car is a Helmholtz Resonator. These have nothing to do with performance persay, rather they are tuning device to counteract the induction boom that is produced in an intake manifold. Removing them does nothing more than create noise's / vibrations in the engine with no change to the performance. In the case of the Yamaha Boost unit, i am not sure what they were specifically designed to do, i am guesssing something different to a Helmholtz.
-
In my expereince boost bootles smooth out the power without increasing the power. A very simple experiment; ride along with a peg in the left hand and squeeze off the rubber inlet at various revs with it - thats what I did. I also tried various size bottles.
All pretty inconclusive.
-
The YEIS (boost bottle) was on the bike because when reed valves closed, the inertia of the gas would carry it on towards the closed inlet port, where it would be reflected back into the carb and disturb the gas flow. With the bottle tapped into the inlet rubber inlet manifold the gas would flow up the pipe and into the bottle rather than to the inlet port and be reflected back into the carb. As the inlet port reopened, the gas in the bottle would join the main flow from the carb to the crankcase. The time required for the gas to fill the bottle was such that the process was only effective for engine speeds below about 6000rpm. And for the YZ250G thats where their was a flat spot on power so for the YZ250H the boost bottle cleaned the problem up.
Does that help??
-
hi djracing...thats very interesting reading.ive got a yz250h without the boost bottle.its got the reed cage and tank off a g model..dont ask me why it was like it when i bought it...but i have noticeable flat spot in the mid range when on the gas.any suggestions on how to cure it....any remedies.cheers...
-
Dont shut it off :o ;D ;D ;D.
You can buy the rubber manifold new (reproduction) and fit a boost bottle. You could use a old yammie shock resoviour as the bottle, if it is a gold anodised it will look trick. Other than that a change of needle but then you would have to measure the needle at the point that the flat spot is and find a needle that will be better.
I have a spare YZ boost bottle and hose if that is any help to you?
-
i just fitted up a brand new manifold thinking that was the problem cause the old one was sort of cracked and worn...havent tried it yet to see if its made a difference but ill also try a different needle as well to see how that goes ...if that dont fix it well i might have to get that yz boost bottle and hose off you....you are goin to classic dirt arnt you.... ;)
-
Re-jetting with a needle for a specific area is pretty hard. Unless you have had alot of experience and knowledge of needles you can just move the problem to a different rev range.
Yeah I better be at CD-5 or I think the shite I would get on here would be worst than the shite I will get at CD-5 for being a wierd YZ lover ;D ;D ;D
-
Answer Roost Boost! ::)
I’m surprised no one mentioned these yet. Anyway heres some back round info and what the box says.
- a solid state ignition power booster that turns a standard ignition into a works ignition
- easy installation. Standard ignition wires plug right into the roost boost leads. No cutting soldering or modification necessary.
- will not overload or damage production ignition or CDI unit.
- developed on the GP tracks of Europe
Race Proven, developed and used throughout the 86 european grand prix & USA nationals & supercrosses by the worlds fasted racers
Features include.
-delivers a boost of power throughout the total RMP range
- easy bolt on installations, no modifications, plugs right into your ignition within minutes.
- will not overload or damage your ignition or CDI unit.
How it works.
The roost boost is a solid state ignition power booster that turns a standard ignition into a ‘works ignition’, like the factory works bikes use. This is done by changing the shape and duration of your ignition spark.
Its no secret that the factory riders use ‘works’ ignitions or heavily modified stock ones on their ‘production based’ works bikes. Answer Products is proud to be the first US company to offer this patented ‘works’ technology to all riders!
The roost boost was developed and tested on the European grand prix circuit since 1984, by moto-stars Jacky Vimond and Davey Strijbos. Now manufactured in the US by Answer racing, the Answer roost boost is used on the machines of the top riders like Bob Hannah, Jonny O’Mara and Alan king!
Ok this was first developed by a company called Fischer in Europe in about 84 I believe and the packet says ‘ Fischer design’ and then Answer got hold of this technology. I think these are the similar sort of thing as a ignition device made by ‘Fischer Systems’ and use to be sold by Trevor Flood Gasit Motorcycles in Australia.
I approached this with an open mind and wanted to find out more about these. I’ve heard comments saying they do nothing at all or there was no noticeable difference or they do work and you can notice an improvement, or they give a 5hp increase in power or all they do is increase the RMP by 500 or 1000rpm. I was tending to think that the people who didn’t notice a difference had other faults with their bike eg, worn engine, poor jetting etc and therefore they didn’t notice any improvement because the rest of the bike wasn’t running spot on. I thought if it did do something increasing the RPM range a bit would be about it.
US dirt bike Magazine says ‘for $52.00 you get a noticeable improvement with no drawbacks’
Dirt wheels Magazine says ‘ the roost boost is the most cost effective modification you can make on your machine!’
So I wanted to know what exactly was inside these things and if they were a universal thing that just have different colour wires for different bikes to make it a simple bolt on thing. My thinking for this is with a top end rebuild pretty much any one can do one on a 2 stroke but when it comes to electrics and wiring a lot of people can become very confused by this and don’t understand electrics. Answer knew this so they wanted to make it a simple bolt on thing so they needed to have the right colours for each bike so the average person with no knowledge of electronics could hook one up. That was just my thinking but maybe they were built different inside for each specific bike.
The roost boost fits in line between the stator and CDI unit and is connected across in parallel. So there is wires going in and then wires going out. I wanted to know what electronics could possibly be inside that could make such a positive improvement. It sounded a little too good to be true but surely they do something I thought. I connected a multi meter to see what that said. They were giving a resistance measurement and several were about the same ohm reading. I decided to pull one apart and see what’s inside. After a bit of digging I couldn’t find nothing, more digging and still nothing. I was becoming a little shocked. Eventually I got it all apart and found one single component and that’s all! All that was in side was one heavy duty ceramic resistor with 3 orange bands and a gold which means a 33 K ohm resistor. That’s all it was!. I was surprised.
This one resistor was connected in parallel across the wires going from the stator to the CDI. So basically its in parallel to either the primary or pulsar coil or both, I haven’t worked that out yet. So how could this possibly give an increase in power? All this works technology is, is just simple 50cent resistor!. very simple and not complicated at all! My thinking is this- in theory when you put more windings on a light coil you get a more resistance and more power and can run a brighter globe. So if since this resistor is connected in parallel to one or both the coils on the stator plate this does a similar thing and increases voltage and this then goes into the CDI unit and then makes makes more power and maybe somehow increases the RPM range and giving a HP increase. I don’t know. Whats other peoples thoughts on this? Maybe there is some one who has some knowledge on ignition systems and can explain exactly how these are ment to work.
ive got one for a late 80's YZ 490, maybe someone can borrow it and do a test report and report back with what they find out!
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-6/1192012/boost.JPG)
-
There is a product on today's market fleecing the unwary(vowel feline if you want to know ;)) I reckon it would be more likely to be a capacitor.This linked in the trigger circuit would have the effect of retaring the igniton at higher rpm, thus the performance improvement.
-
Good work mythbuster LWC. Sounds a lot like that magic box Brocky was pushing many years back.
With the magazines claims of performance with their testing you have to wonder about every other product you read about in the magazines (except GMC in VMX of course ;D)
Pushing the advertisers dollar is more inportant for them & they would never dream of exposing a high profile advertisers scam in a modern mag.
-
yeh, Brocky lost a lot of Cred' with the "Energy Polarizer"
What was he thinking?
-
dollars
-
Then followed it up by making special ??? Australian spec....Bloody shitbox Russian abomination Ladas...pushing them in more ways than one........ got an "energy polariser" somewhere as an ornament, paid $3.00 for it complete at a "get your own part "car wreckers. Should put it on ebay and might even get the $3.00 bucks back maybe not ::)
-
Sign it with a fake brocky sig and " love life" tag and ill reckon youll see $150 for it !
-
Hmmm already has a Brock signature engraved and numbered on it on it , most likely fake like the piece of wanking bullshit itself........ ::)
-
Well, please excuse my ignorance. When I saw these at Broadford I assumed they were an old product, probably because they were on an old bike.
Wacky inventions alive & well at Broadford Dirt track.
Didn't get the chance to ask the owner what they felt like
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Misc009.jpg)
But then I bought Trailrider Magazine, mostly for the DVD with some GNCC footage. The magazine I thought a bit ordinary, & the race footage was a bit ordinary too, but had some good interviews with the Aussies & David Knight.
Anyway Watts'y is showing us his house & bike and points out these "Flexx" handlebars that he now needs to get his bad wrists through a 3 hour race.
I didn't realise the bars at Broadford were a modern bar even though I did hear Shane was using something like this.
I really must get out more.
-
Oh, and Tim. I will give you $6.00 for your Polariser.
A 100% profit for you sounds good ey? :D :D
-
$6.00!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nah! worth at least $8.00 as a talking point in shed. ;)
-
(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/Plasticleversad.jpg) ;)
-
...........don't laugh! I've still got a heap of those in the shed,along with the " universal unbreakable gear lever ".
Roger
-
Wacky inventions alive & well at Broadford Dirt track.
Didn't get the chance to ask the owner what they felt like
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Misc009.jpg)
Is the wacky invention the handlebars or the orange thing that is attached to them?
;D
-
Plastic levers....unbreakable? Yep! Shame the rest of your bike needed to be unbreakable too if you used them. I still remember the first time I grabbed a big handful of brake on a soon to be a killer downhill one HOT day.....the levers become surprisingly flexible in the sun! :o
-
It didn't need to be hot ::).
I wonder how many the sold. I know I bought some. I think they lasted one brake application. So flexy you didn't have any feel. The clutch was no better. But someone probably retired on the profits ;).
Good idea, poor execution :P.
-
I've been toying the idea of building a fun bike for CD6 featuring as many of the bad idea and just plain ugly products I can find. I've got a going but very dunger DT1 Yamaha, a tacky NOS red metalflake fibreglass tank, a pair of the widest and highest solid alloy bars I've ever seen (gold anodised of course), plastic levers, Hex grips, Pacifico plastic gear lever, a Taiwanese gunnar gasser copy throttle, thermal flow shocks, Preston Petter Mudders (they're good quality but you have to admit they're plug ugly), one of those alloy fork braces that did absolutly nothing except collect mud, a lumpy leg burner pipe of unknown make but it looks like one of those Eltham Dirt Cycle monstrosities they were always talking up in T&T. I've even go one of those retread tyres that weigh as much as a tractor tyre.
It'd make a great display bike in the Kompound but finding someone willing to ride it may come down to drawing straws!
Sound like an idea - a bit of a good old fashion self effacing shit stir ;D. My type of humour. Maybe it will appeal to others and they can contribute ;).
I don't know if I have anything to contribute - I'll have a think and a look :). I do have a Preston Petty plastic bash plate some people think they fit the bill for 'wacky' but I used them and thought they were good. Ditto the Hex grips which get a bagging. I don't know if I would go out of my way to fit them but gees they were and improvement on the OEM Yamaha crap - either the blister causing serrated ribs or the skin shredding waffle pattern :P. Actually I rate those fat blistered Triumph style grips, which is still popular, far worst then the Hex shaped ones.
I did have the full enclosed flimsy plastic chain guard and the rear mudguard extension that was required for rego in NSW. Hmmmmm, where did I see that last ::). They would look a treat :-[.
-
I've been toying the idea of building a fun bike for CD6 featuring as many of the bad idea and just plain ugly products I can find. I've got a going but very dunger DT1 Yamaha, a tacky NOS red metalflake fibreglass tank, a pair of the widest and highest solid alloy bars I've ever seen (gold anodised of course), plastic levers, Hex grips, Pacifico plastic gear lever, a Taiwanese gunnar gasser copy throttle, thermal flow shocks, Preston Petter Mudders (they're good quality but you have to admit they're plug ugly), one of those alloy fork braces that did absolutly nothing except collect mud, a lumpy leg burner pipe of unknown make but it looks like one of those Eltham Dirt Cycle monstrosities they were always talking up in T&T. I've even go one of those retread tyres that weigh as much as a tractor tyre.
It'd make a great display bike in the Kompound but finding someone willing to ride it may come down to drawing straws!
All that's missing are nylon sprockets and a glitter plastic seat cover.
-
I've been toying the idea of building a fun bike for CD6 featuring as many of the bad idea and just plain ugly products I can find. I've got a going but very dunger DT1 Yamaha, a tacky NOS red metalflake fibreglass tank, a pair of the widest and highest solid alloy bars I've ever seen (gold anodised of course), plastic levers, Hex grips, Pacifico plastic gear lever, a Taiwanese gunnar gasser copy throttle, thermal flow shocks, Preston Petter Mudders (they're good quality but you have to admit they're plug ugly), one of those alloy fork braces that did absolutly nothing except collect mud, a lumpy leg burner pipe of unknown make but it looks like one of those Eltham Dirt Cycle monstrosities they were always talking up in T&T. I've even go one of those retread tyres that weigh as much as a tractor tyre.
It'd make a great display bike in the Kompound but finding someone willing to ride it may come down to drawing straws!
Ah, damn - CG beat me to it:
You missed the nylon sprockets!
-
I've been toying the idea of building a fun bike for CD6 featuring as many of the bad idea and just plain ugly products I can find. I've got a going but very dunger DT1 Yamaha, a tacky NOS red metalflake fibreglass tank, a pair of the widest and highest solid alloy bars I've ever seen (gold anodised of course), plastic levers, Hex grips, Pacifico plastic gear lever, a Taiwanese gunnar gasser copy throttle, thermal flow shocks, Preston Petter Mudders (they're good quality but you have to admit they're plug ugly), one of those alloy fork braces that did absolutly nothing except collect mud, a lumpy leg burner pipe of unknown make but it looks like one of those Eltham Dirt Cycle monstrosities they were always talking up in T&T. I've even go one of those retread tyres that weigh as much as a tractor tyre.
It'd make a great display bike in the Kompound but finding someone willing to ride it may come down to drawing straws!
Ah, damn - CG beat me to it:
You missed the nylon sprockets!
Might have one of those as well ::). Don't know what it'll fit. I think it was the YZ250E. Again I used them with success 'back in the day' (I used to paint them black because I was too embarrassed). I think they got bad press when one failed at Bathurst on a CB750 or such ::) :P :-[
-
Ugly components.....you must have the 82 (I think) KX REAR GUARD, You know, with the integrated number plate! ----- No 'F OFF UGLY bike should be without one!
-
I remember trying those plastic levers too, my clutch was so hard the lever just bent instead of disengaging the clutch & yeah, forget about heaving on the front brake to slow down.
Wacky inventions alive & well at Broadford Dirt track.
Didn't get the chance to ask the owner what they felt like
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Misc009.jpg)
Is the wacky invention the handlebars or the orange thing that is attached to them?
;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I've been toying the idea of building a fun bike for CD6 featuring as many of the bad idea and just plain ugly products I can find. I've got a going but very dunger DT1 Yamaha, a tacky NOS red metalflake fibreglass tank, a pair of the widest and highest solid alloy bars I've ever seen (gold anodised of course), plastic levers, Hex grips, Pacifico plastic gear lever, a Taiwanese gunnar gasser copy throttle, thermal flow shocks, Preston Petter Mudders (they're good quality but you have to admit they're plug ugly), one of those alloy fork braces that did absolutly nothing except collect mud, a lumpy leg burner pipe of unknown make but it looks like one of those Eltham Dirt Cycle monstrosities they were always talking up in T&T. I've even go one of those retread tyres that weigh as much as a tractor tyre.
It'd make a great display bike in the Kompound but finding someone willing to ride it may come down to drawing straws!
Don't forget to fit up a boost bottle & anti dive front end.
One of those pro-link type linkage systems that mounted on your twin shock bike to increase travel through the linkages ( can't remember thier name)
You will also need something like one of those four wheel steer Honda's to tow it to the event with.
-
GMC wasn't it Skunk Works that made those linkages to fit the elsinore etc and jack the rear of the bike up another 6 inches
-
That's a cool idea to make a bike using all those parts. Bought an xr75 this week with 2 red plastic levers that flex to the bars before anything happens.
-
Yep, Skunk Works. They were as trick as! A mate fitted them to his XL350 and it looked so cool with a seat you needed a ladder to get on to. Wish I knew where that bike is now, it was so trick in a sort of schoolboys fantasy of trick way...
Here's a hopeful soul:
http://wantitnow.ebay.com/AHRMA-70s-Vintage-Skunk-Works-Rear-Suspension-Linkage_W0QQadidZ320351208602
-
Yeah I think Skunkworks was it.
They also suffered from soft suspension if you used your original shocks which I think the adds claimed that you could.
By adding twice the travel meant the rear suspension ended up twice as soft :o
-
:D hey! I had a nice pair of booty savers as well..actually I had quite a few pairs :P
they were in the cheapy bin next to the plastic levers at McLeods in the days when you could actually go there and buy quality things..in the end, these so called boot savers got cut up and reworked into crossbar pads, the beginning of my patchwork and quilting interests 8) those bars are trick but not as trick as rubber bars! Long live the PP No-Dive!! I must fit that someday soon as well ;D
I have a no dive on a RM 125 B, I like it ;D the only thing is you do have to lean on the brakes a bit harder( may try different compound) At the weekend we had a down hill ito a 90 corner with a bigish bump just before it(previous track crossed this one) under full brakes ,didnt feel it. really cool! ;D
I know its not vintage but what happened to the 2 wheel drive revolution yamaha was into ???
-
Asasin This is the "wacky inventions" thread... sort of sums up the 2 wheel drive solo. Many have tried the 2 wheel drive bit, a few like the Yamaha were expensive, over complex and over engineered nightmares that showed SFA real life benefits, the rest were just crap. ;)
-
While mowing the lown today thinking of this topic I remembered the little peace of rubber you could buy in the 80s that slipped onto your finger & worked like a windscreen wiper for your goggles. Trouble was as with a W/S wiper when there is mud on the lens all it does is smear it & scratch the sit out of them.
-
I have those bits of rubber sewen into my new road bike gloves and they work on a full face road helmut good ( no mud but)
-
Try them with mud & see what happens
-
(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/P4170134.jpg)
It would seem that Preston was 'ahead of his times' (by about 30 years ::)).
This is the '09 WR450 OEM.
-
Okay. lets be honest......how many of you bought and fitted one of these? I did. Remember going up to Competition Developments in the wilds of North Ryde to pick it up.
Probably should have taken it back and shoved in to a very dark and unpleasant recess ;). I can't remember what became of it, I know it didn't stay on the bike, a DT360 used for enduro's, for very long.
I wish I could lay my hands on it today, along with the hex grips, nylon sprocket and plastic levers: have it as a reminder that I was once young, trusting and gullible ::) :P ;D.
(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/page11take2.jpg)
-
i suspect that Dave Tanner's at it again.........
that 211 kawasaki don't look pre~75 legal to me at all....... :D
-
i think its cool how companies , particularly Engineering companies borrow names.
Skunk Works is an official alias for Lockheed Martin’s Advanced Development Programs (ADP), formerly called Lockheed Advanced Development Projects. Skunk Works is responsible for a number of famous aircraft designs, including the U-2, the SR-71, the F-117, and the F-22. Its largest current project is the F-35 Lightning II, which will be used in the air forces of several countries around the world. Production is expected to last for up to four decades.
"Skunk works" or "skunkworks" is widely used in business, engineering, and technical fields to describe a group within an organization given a high degree of autonomy and unhampered by bureaucracy, tasked with working on advanced or secret projects.
Well the shock extensions as shown by MX 250 were very "hi-tech" and a very advanced project during their development , its a pity they didnt work , but having said that they did look very factory / trick on my Rt-360 yamaha.
Shoey
-
Looky what I just found out in the garage.......
(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/P5140114.jpg)(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/P5140115.jpg)
-
hey mx250 whats it for looks very similar to a pe400 one thanks Michael. :)
-
I would have to check but I think it is YZ250D (and lots of other Yammies using the same hub).
-
probably will you sell me the yz 250d minus the sprocket ;D thanks Michael. :)
-
i reckon a PE400 would rip a plastic sprocket to shreds in about 20mins :D
-
Ah, nylon sprockets. Lighter, but wear quicker of course. Worked at Addington Engineering in ChCh many years ago and we used to cut sprockets. But I think it was only from steel. I remember at the time thinking they (nylon) were ugly.
-
i think its cool how companies , particularly Engineering companies borrow names.
Skunk Works is an official alias for Lockheed Martin’s Advanced Development Programs (ADP), formerly called Lockheed Advanced Development Projects. Skunk Works is responsible for a number of famous aircraft designs, including the U-2, the SR-71, the F-117, and the F-22. Its largest current project is the F-35 Lightning II, which will be used in the air forces of several countries around the world. Production is expected to last for up to four decades.
Shoey, I read somewhere that they used the Skunk Works label cos they were a couple engineers from the real Skunk Works, who were keen on Dirt Bikes. You'd have tho't they'd have been brighter than to come up w that linkage system tho. Perhaps they were just cleaners at Lockheed Martin! The ram tube intake for rotary valve Kawasakis was a good idea tho.
-
I've got a Skunk Works inlet manifold on the RT1 engine in my Cheney. It kind of looks like a reed block without the reeds. I'm guessing it's supposed to create some sort of vortex with the inlet gasses but I doubt wether it has any positive benefits. It looks cool though!
-
i
Well the shock extensions as shown by MX 250 were very "hi-tech" and a very advanced project during their development , its a pity they didnt work , but having said that they did look very factory / trick on my Rt-360 yamaha.
Shoey
You must have scored them of Pat's 360. I can still remember fitting them....... We would have fitted anything in those days to get some rear suspension on those bikes.
Hi Rob 8)
-
I had the same set up back in my hoon days on a old 500 triple Kawasaki. :)Darcy
All My Days are "HOON" Days
Awesome Hoony
-
I have just picked up on this thread. Tim754 mentioned the Yamaha cans on the top of the front forks way back in 2007 when the thread started.
It reminded me of the Honda equivalent. HRC shipped a set out in 1977 for the Oz titles (fitted to the 250). I will see if I can find a photo. They were shipped back shortly after the event.
-
errr,that rang a bell 593,i mechanicked for a honda dealer about then,stuck a set of imported MX race factory forks (removed the top cannisters) on my XL175 work hack for a giggle,pissed myself laughing watching the forks action,not up n down,but to n fro,the frame/steering stem wasn't up to the forks standards,don't know what happened to them after that,they certainly wern't shipped back ::)
-
Matcho,
From memory they were nitrogen filled forks with no adjustment ???? The top reservoirs looked like great big ballons sitting up from the top triple clamp :)...........can't imagine why HRC didn't persevere ??? ???
-
How about this :o.
(http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww125/NoelSR/S6306635.jpg?t=1250591892)
(http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww125/NoelSR/S6306636.jpg?t=1250591917)
-
Definitely qualifies as wacky!!!! :D
-
Definitely FUBAR !
-
I like that SERGONI ;D the guy must have been a F1 engineer in a former life!
-
Is there a class for triple shock ??? :-\
-
At first, I thought "parallel links, OK", but upon further inspection: WTF!?
What's the adjustable bolt thats near where a conventional swingarm pivot bolt for?
What do the frame members bolt on - are they pivots (particularly the one near the top shock mount)?
What does the extra, Yamaha-eqsue bit on the top swing arm do?
Etc.
-
Heres what I see. it is only 2 shocks? the bit over the top strengthens and ties the parrell arms togethere left to right. the bolt in the middle ( where normal s arm should be) adjusts the chain tension by moving the motor a la karts. what do you reckon?
-
Then what are the adjuster on the axle for?
Also, there's a vertical-ish bit from the front of the 'over the top' part that runs down to behind the swing-arm pivot bit (well, where a normal swing arm pivot would be).
-
two chains need to be adjusted
-
From what I can see The bike has two chains one from the counter shaft sprocket to a lay shaft (where the swing arm pivot should be) and one from the lay shaft to the rear wheel. Hence the adjusters. By having the drive on the pivot point of the swing arm it stops the suspension squatting down under acceleration. This is what BMW have done with there 450s. But with this bike they have made it very complicated.
-
Fork, I been looking at it on and off for weeks and didn't see the chain setup :-[
Who would jump it?
cheers
Noel
-
I love it. Not the tank. Thats just fugly. Where did this come from. At least he used a great motor.
-
The gap between tyre and over the top brace (???) doesn't make sense and it has to move into a free space as the suspension compresses.....not much room there unless its hollow under the seat and tank...room for another shock absorber.....after all, why stop at two chains, two swing arms etc ...make it as complicated as you can ??? ??? ???
-
it seems to me that the adjustment for the chain to the countershaft is achieved by means of the slotted hole which would be the axle of the counter shaft, note the adjuster just rear of this point. i would suggest that the swing arm is interesting but far to flimsy to withstand any brutality. looks interesting but a lot of trouble to get the countershaft close but not exactly on the same axis....... looking again it is or can be adjusted to be exactly on the axis! that was very likely the prime motivation for the whole experiment. cheers wally
-
You'd like to think his metalworking wizardry would have extended to something a little more elaborate in terms of a stand.... :D
-
I like it :) Bottom arm does all the work , while top secton acts as a brace and travels on an arc past air box
Take particular note of all braces and connecting points . Counter shaft brace is on same plane and heads directly to steering head ......in other words all forces are directed forward
Rear sep up reminds me "4 link"
-
Back in '87 I went to the White Power factory in Holland with Hansi Bachtold (4x world champ, sidecar cross) He was sponsred by them at the time and was a development rider. They told me then that linkages were old school and that very soon(!!) they would be able to vale a shock to do everything a linkage does. Enter the PDF system but some 20 yrs later!!
I also remember Skunk Works used to have a linkage system for rear swing arms that was very simple but worked the guts out of normal shocks really quickly-anybody got some of those in the shed?
-
My 85 ATK has no linkage single shock courtousy of MR Ohlins also usd forks . 20 years ahead of its time
-
"in other words all forces are directed forward "
Oldfart,
I don't think so. If it were true, they would have invented the perpetual motion machine. Hit a bump and the bike accelerates forward. ;)
-
all forces are aimed at a single point " head stem "
Like a poggo stick .... jump up and down and forces are generated upwards , aim slighty forward and it all changes to forward motion
Ask yourself why front forks are not up and down part of it is to do with rake
-
So are you telling me there is a Newton's 4th Law of Motion ????
-
They where only theorys
-
I remember going out to Wallan to see Gaston Rahier and a few other Internationals ride in about 1975. Apart from Gastons incredibly trick Suzuki what a lot of people noticed was how far angled back he had his bars. Lo and behold everybody started angling their bars back here in the local scene. They would have you believe it was the latest handling set up. Probably so keen to look like Gaston that they did'nt realise he was about 5 foot tall and had to have the bars angled back so he could reach them. Classic case of function following form!
-
same thing happened when Ricky Carmichael was on the quakka's.
he ran his bars quite high and it seemed every man and his dog down at the local track was rotating thier bars ridiculously forward.
how wierd is that?
-
Where a shockie points - whether twinshock or monoshock, linkage or non-linkage, is totally irrelevant to the way the forces generated by the wheel contacting the ground act on the centre of mass of the bike.
Telescopic forks lean back to provide rake and trail so the steering self-centres. If the required geometry is achieved by using some other means (like leading link suspension), the damping and springing devices can be set at any angle.
-
Thank you, feetupfun...but it took me a while to be convinced ;)
-
What do you think this does? High-low ratio maybe?
(http://crosso.vs120043.hl-users.com/02.08.2009/10.Isny/slides/(20).jpg)
(http://crosso.vs120043.hl-users.com/02.08.2009/10.Isny/slides/(19).jpg)
-
Seemed like a good idea at the time............ ::) :P
(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/OzVMX/ad.jpg)
-
While this looks weird some of the theories actually make a bit of sense.
Fortunately no highly regarded bikes were harmed for this prototype ;D
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Odd-Suspension-1.jpg)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Odd-Suspension-2.jpg)
-
NSR, I think that contraption on the Simpson is actually the clutch as a cassette. Ford used something similar on their Focus wrc cars on the rear of the gearbox. Very easy to change as a complete unit if it gives trouble-you could carry one in your bumbag almost- which would be very handy on a little screamer like that.
-
Fortunately no highly regarded bikes were harmed for this prototype ;D
Wash ya mouth out - that's a Monty >:(
-
And a Rickman Monty at that - so I assume that Mr GMC wasn't serious on that point...
-
And a Rickman Monty at that -
Is it? The only Rickman Monty I know was for the side port motor. This is a centre port. (I know what the article says and I know what the pixie says.)
-
I figured that it clearly wasn't an otherwise stock production Rickman Monty.
-
The article makes some interesting claims though about suspension performance. It would be interesting to ride the bike to find out but I suspect the excessive downward angle would create suspension 'harshness' with the suspension reluctant to move upwards. All by poofteenths, but the suspension has to move backward before it goes up. Also the shock angle would give a decreasing rate dampening/springing rate which would be hard to eliminate with fine tuning. The constant chain torque would probably be an advantage. How much? I would love to ride a Beemer to find out. But there are probably easier, cheaper and lighter ways to achieve that.
-
Your sure to get a boner over this one...
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/BoneFone.jpg)
And let's not forget Mac's answer to water cooling, imagine how simple bikes would still be if we'd only adopted this one. Look, their is even room to hang your stickers.
Mac probably got his patent and then sold it to some glycol company for millions, then they left it on the shelf forcing us all into watercooling.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/RamJam.jpg)
-
Jeez 500% extra cooling so simple eh, wonder nobody thought of that before ::) ;D
-
Jeez 500% extra cooling so simple eh, wonder nobody thought of that before ::) ;D
Yeah, but the biggest advantage it's "great for hanging your stickers"
-
what about those plastic scott boots,most forking uncomformable boots ever and forget about trying to feel your gear and brake lever's,got rid of them at double quick time :D ;D ;plastic crap
-
i had a pair of the plastic boots to only used them once they were shit ,its funny now but i was pissed back then when i realised id wasted my money on them
-
i got mine off a work mate and resold them for a $10 profit to a mate i went long tracking with,funny enough he liked them
-
Bone Fone = Dicktofone.
I always found it easier to use my finger.
-
(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/dsc00603sc9.jpg)
Calling a way of improving rear suspension 'wacky' is probably unkind but it's a damn elaborate way of achieving the aim.
-
I don't know if this qualifies as wacky but it's seems to me overkill compared to the simple but effect tele forks.
(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/2468367587_4086a4f139_b.jpg)(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/Honda_6CB_works.jpg)
If ya reckon the front end is overkill check out the rear brake torque rod :o
-
That front end looks like something off StarWars.
-
That front end looks like something off StarWars.
CR-D2?
-
Looks like a very costly way of getting the weight up nice and high. ???
-
mmm..I can see the front end bottoming, cable getting hung up on the linkage on return and a big endo following :o the Ribi front end does look very technical (overly) but as stated, there was no real world benefit. Wouldn't like to be the one funding the replacement of all the heim bearings either ;)
-
There is a video on You-Tube of a garage/barn in England that has a lot of Kawi works parts and there is one of those front ends hanging from a supporting beam, and he knows what it's worth.
-
mmm..I can see the front end bottoming, cable getting hung up on the linkage on return and a big endo following :o
Yeah, we all know you don't need all the expense of a flash hi-tech front end to do that ::) :P
Wouldn't like to be the one funding the replacement of all the heim bearings either ;)
I did a quick count;16 :o. Hmmmmm. I wonder how often a rebuild is required to keep everything spot on 'race ready' ??? :-[.
-
The front end looks like an excerise in, what would have been at the time, the begining of CNC machining.
-
Maybe using a machine like this eh, Lozza? Page from a Sprite brochure circa 1973
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/broch17.jpg)
-
What year is that Honda, early/mid 80's??? i was thinking the same thing about those heim bearings too. These days replacing just one bearing on a KTM shock is expensive enough if you got a couple shocks to do. There were some guys in UK who wanted to get these front ends reproduced last year :o. I have also seen a similar set up with 2 Ohlins shocks up front that Roger DeCoster used on a suzuki.
-
Howerton also used this link type front end..but not for long :P
(http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pef-6WKFevAxTwolg7JeXfRxpf2gzbyz4rbH9HvBlcnW7uPm_us83MRHD48azaGOwP5vhG040jr80qK3btdUWwQ/Kent%20Howerton%27s%20RN500.jpg)
-
What year is that Honda, early/mid 80's???
1982 seemed to be the eye of the storm.
I can't talk of the realities of how the Ribi front end worked, but in theory, it should poop on telescopic forks.
I can see the issues of weight placement, but that's not insurmountable.
The Horst Leitner designed AMP-branded linkage MTB forks were really good things - everytime I see either the Ribi or the AMP forks I think of the other....
-
I was at either Indian Dunes or Corona in 1977 or 1978 (it is a long time ago and I am an old man)and Suzuki turned up with a pair of RM production bikes fitted with different versions of the leading link style front end. Both bikes started the day with vinyl shrouds covering the 'forks' but after a couple of laps of each bike by both test riders and surprisingly one of the Japanese mechanics in his overalls and a borrowed helmet, the shrouds were removed.
From memory, bike one had an almost exact copy of the Ribi front end shown on the above Honda CR while the other bike had a simpler, cobbier setup similar to but not the same as the setup shown on Howertons bike that Doc posted. I recall speaking to one of the test riders, a young long haired 'California beach boy" looking kid who reckoned the Ribi forks worked great, especially in stutters and on the landing after jumps. The other rider was a Mexican, possibly Carlos Cerrano, and he was hooting on both bikes. The next time I saw a Ribi front end was two or three years later on a Honda, in REVS after I came home.
I took photos at the time but over the years they've been misplaced. Damn I wish I could find those slides, then we could recognise the rider, (the blonde one.
ps....It's funny how the mind will always dreg up something from the past when you least expect it. I had my green tank Husky 360 auto there and despite this exotica drawing a crowd, the Japanese Suzuki mechanics were all over my bike once they realised it was an auto.
Even though I didn't actually own the bike at the time (it was owned by my boss) I relented and gave one of the Japanese guys a ride (a different one to the one who did the hot laps on the Ribi bike) and after about three laps came back with a smile as big as Luna Park and got into a very animated conversation with his Japanese mates. He loved the auto and winked at me when I asked if Suzuki was going to produce one!
-
Were you as enthusiastic about the Auto as the Jap mechanic Firko?
-
If I remember correctly the claim was that with the ribi style front end, the bikes wheel base never changed regardless of suspension position.
With telescopic forks as the suspension collapses, the wheel base shortens, creating a less stable bike (particulary under brakes over rough ground)
The ribi front end overcame this, but also created other problems with it's complexities.
-
Were you as enthusiastic about the Auto as the Jap mechanic Firko?
Graeme I loved it so much I bought it from my boss. I've been in talks with Team Husky about owning another one as soon as I get healthy again.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVVJYw3FW_M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVVJYw3FW_M)
Check around the 25 second time frame. Hanging on the post in the middle of the workshop.
-
I found myself trying to look over the top of some bikes to see the 1 behind it better ::).
-
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380255180787
(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/BzHnygB2kKGrHqZhwEw5CUIffBMUjlkRm6Q_12.jpg)
Don't miss out now ;) :D
-
mx250 there were 8 pairs of NOS plastic scott bootd for sale here last year
-
Are those two left footers? :D-well they may as well be
-
Form an orderly queue to the right please ;D
(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/15494294-16343-large.jpg)
http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/largephoto.cgi?C=MntpA7Xo8uEnEXwP
-
Don't see those skunk kits anywhere, so on rarity alone would probably be worth the $400.
My curiosity of these things got the better of me one day so I made some. Haven't tried it out yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOPpU5wXQRk&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
-
Don't see those skunk kits anywhere, so on rarity alone would probably be worth the $400.
My curiosity of these things got the better of me one day so I made some. Haven't tried it out yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOPpU5wXQRk&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
I think the vid shows what you can expect - a lot longer travel with less resistance from spring or damper :-[.
It's a $400 curiosity. My curiosity doesn't run to that ::).
I would still love to see all the wacky ideas on the one bike (as much as possible). It would truly be a talking point for young and old, and worth the space in any museum ;) :).
-
[/quote]I think the vid shows what you can expect - a lot longer travel with less resistance from spring or damper :-[.
[/quote]
Only had one side connected for video, so looks a lot softer than it is.
-
I made a set of these Skunk Works linkage thingys back in the day as a foreign order when I worked on the Railway and fitted them to my MX250, promptly blowing the Thermal Flows after 3 laps of our practice track. "Ah, the Thermal Flows are shit anyway" thought I so I fitted the links to my Koni equipped 350 squarie and blew them out as well. Not being able to afford another set of shocks I donated the linkages to a bloke in our club who fitted them to his CZ which had super dooper (for 1974) springed Fox shocks (the red, white and blue jobs) and yep....he blew them out too!
It seems that the linkage ratio was a bit too severe on the primitive shocks of the day....I'd like to try it again with a pair of decent modern shocks or even Fox Airshox.
-
Just this once I will admit to being a sucker back in 75 , I bought a set of these for my dt125 they where great for trail riding though I didn't race back then I thought they where the ducks guts .
-
I made a set of these Skunk Works linkage thingys back in the day as a foreign order when I worked on the Railway and fitted them to my MX250, promptly blowing the Thermal Flows after 3 laps of our practice track. "Ah, the Thermal Flows are shit anyway" thought I so I fitted the links to my Koni equipped 350 squarie and blew them out as well. Not being able to afford another set of shocks I donated the linkages to a bloke in our club who fitted them to his CZ which had super dooper (for 1974) springed Fox shocks (the red, white and blue jobs) and yep....he blew them out too!
It seems that the linkage ratio was a bit too severe on the primitive shocks of the day....I'd like to try it again with a pair of decent modern shocks or even Fox Airshox.
I thought you didn't like blowing up shocks!! The linkage ratio won't have changed over time, but perhaps if you increased the spring rate appropriately you might take enough load off the seals to make them work for more than a few laps.
Of to the shed Firko… ;D Or give Ji* a call and he can make you a set in titanium! ;)
*only joshin'. Come back Ji you know we miss you!!
-
It would be the same as putting a std shock into a linkage rear on a modern. However, the go was to grab some heavy shocks off a 400 or even off a big roady-if you could stand the chrome look.
-
I ran the rear Skunkworks linkage on my TM125L in '75, it was soft with the stock shocks but it was definitely an improvement, I didn't blow the stock shocks by using them.
Skunkworks also advertised a CR125M1 with a single shock mounted vertically in front of the triple clamps; the forks had no oil or springs; had a linkage from the sliders to the shock.
I used plastic clutch lever and was happy but the flex at the front brake was no good.
I used a plastic rear sprocket without any issues.
I LOVED my plastic Heckle boots, wore them with pride on my RM125A (which I actually bought from Steve Cramer after he won it as a prize in Qld).
I used a Visor-View helmet peak also; was too busy going forward out-of-control to think to look in the mirrors LOL.
Had an Answer Boost Bottle on my RM250Z; don't remember any improvement.
I used a Triple C face fender that clipped to the front of my open face helmet; I remember racing at Broadford at the first Channel O race meeting and getting mouthfuls of dust; because I was use to wearing a Jofa mouth guard I'd forget I had the face fender on and was spitting out heaps of dust; it was a horrible sight LOL.
I loved my Answer boot-savers; I think they attributed to me getting the 'Johnny O' nickname when I was racing CR's in the mid 80's. I was just thinking recently that I want a pair now; I'll put a JT patch on them and everyone will think they're coming back LOL.
I think maybe the Scott 'Venturi' face mask could be another 'wacky invention'?
-
I like the old boot savers they looked cool. they are just the thing to hide ugly plastic boots under. still today i like to ride in boot cut jeans just makes you to hip for hollywood.........
Plastic levers from sport and road helped by no front wheel lockups well no front brake at all really.
but when the idea is to go fast who needs brakes anyway..........
you have to just love all the wacky stuff, i used to love seeing they young guys turn up at the track one week with some new gadget out of the states and go worse than ever and then turn up next week with their new trick parts removed, waiting for the next fad to come out. ;D
-
you have to just love all the wacky stuff, i used to love seeing they young guys turn up at the track one week with some new gadget out of the states and go worse than ever and then turn up next week with their new trick parts removed, waiting for the next fad to come out. ;D
[/quote]
I reckon the mini-bikers were the worst for that-prob 'cause mum and dad were paying and they always wanted Jonny to have the best :D :D
And guess whaty/ now they are all older and those that are left racing are pretty much the same-gotta have the latest trick stuff and then blame that bit for not going quick enough to win-again.
-
you have to just love all the wacky stuff, i used to love seeing they young guys turn up at the track one week with some new gadget out of the states and go worse than ever and then turn up next week with their new trick parts removed, waiting for the next fad to come out.
I was one of those young blokes who skimped and saved to have the latest gizmo out of the US or Europe on my bikes. With the exception of better shocks, I don't think any of them made any major difference to my speed and ability. No matter how trick or stock my bike was I still wallowed around in the second pack in C grade, having a ball dicing with my fellow losers. A bloke once told me that the slower we were as riders often parallelled the trickness of our bikes and I guess I lived up to that observation :-\.
It's the same today, I still find stock boring so I like my bikes to be a bit different to what everyone else has, whether they're faster or slower than a stocker is irrelevent.....they're different and thats what counts to me.
-
It's the same today, I still find stock boring so I like my bikes to be a bit different to what everyone else has, whether they're faster or slower than a stocker is irrelevent.....they're different and thats what counts to me.
I think I came fro the same mould as you Friko, I never realy rode the same bikes as the others back in the days of my youth, I usually rode something just a little bit different and I continue that way today. I love turning up at the events that I ride and see everyone else with there "trick catalogue custom" Yamaha, Honda and KTM enduro bikes. I am often asked why I persist with riding the ancient old XT500 and XT600 Tenere that ride, when it would be easier going on a modern bike. And the answer is always the same, if I rode a moden bike, I would just be another middle of the pack clubman. On the old Yamahas, I am me, an individual, not just another clone in the middle of the pack.
CJ
-
With the increasing popularity of Vinduros those Skunk kits may have some relevance to those that love or have Pre 75 bikes. Get some extra travel for those events and help save the kidneys. Easy to put back to stock when needed.
-
Well, wacky enough I started running Curnutt long travel shocks back in '74 on my custom framed SL125 Honda. Then used them on my custom framed XL350. Typically was ahead of the factories on suspension travel. And the cost was about 1/2 of what the "name brand" shocks went for, and all high quality chrome moly parts. Charlie Curnutt said he was making a fair profit on his products and couldn't figure out why the competition was charging so much for lower quality materials in their products!
Swiss
-
With the increasing popularity of Vinduros those Skunk kits may have some relevance to those that love or have Pre 75 bikes. Get some extra travel for those events and help save the kidneys. Easy to put back to stock when needed.
Aren't vinduro riders restricted to 4" at the rear in pre 75?
-
Shoot, my shocks had 4.7" of travel in '74! So much for Vintage! As it was built back then it wouldn't even be able to compete in a Vintage class! Not everyone was riding "box stock" factory stuff!
Swiss
-
And the cost was about 1/2 of what the "name brand" shocks went for, and all high quality chrome moly parts. Charlie Curnutt said he was making a fair profit on his products and couldn't figure out why the competition was charging so much for lower quality materials in their products!
I've got a couple of pairs of Curnutts that had been fitted to bikes I'd imported and must agree with Swiss that they're pretty good quality. In the seventies just about every desert racer had Curnutts on their bikes. I pulled a pair apart and found them to be very similar to Works Performance in design. Rebuild kits are still available somewhere online.
-
Firko, On my Curnutts I went to a Works style spring limiter with dual springs and small travel limit rings above the dividing collar. That allows some tuning of the spring rate through the travel. It will start out fairly soft (two different rated springs are always softer than either by itself) and when the travel limiter stops the short spring travel, it uses only the stiffer long spring. Works Performance did this with I think as many as 3 different springs stacked together to control the progressive spring rate through the travel. They had some "Trick name" for it but I don't remember what they called it back in the day! The collar between the upper and lower springs is nylon, and keeps the springs from "ringing" on the shock body also, like the full length Curnutt springs had a tendency to do. I remember guys spraying chain lube and WD-40 and such on their springs to try keeping them quiet. Charlie used 4130 tubing for the shock body and the best quality springs that he could get so they tended to last pretty well. People now say that they don't have a sophistocated damping system, but they ARE Period! And there are still people pushing up and down on them and saying that they are too soft until they actually ride with them! You can't test them with a push compression test!
Swiss
-
Thanks for that Swiss...I've got a rebuilt pair of 14" Curnutts on my TM250 but as that bike's about to get chopped up to make it into a flat tracker using shorter shocks so I might just use them on my race DT1 which needs 14'' shocks. What springs did you use for the two spring conversion Swiss? Do you have a photo of the conversion? I've got a few different rate Works and Yamaha springs for the two spring set up so I'll see if they will fit. I had Curnutts on my 360 Husky Auto back in the day and remember how soft they felt when static. It's only when you get going that their magic comes alive. They're a plain looking shock but it's surprising that they usually work better than the shiny shocks with all of the gizmos.
Speaking of which.....I've been doing a stocktake and rearanging my shed to make room for more bikes and while ferretting around I've uncovered five pairs of Arnacos. One pair are leftovers from the seventies when I had them on one of my Maicos, two sets are NOS off eBay and two more sets are second hand sets I've bought over the years for the mythical 'future project'. I've decided I'm going to build up a couple of sets for my projects to match the pair I have on my Cheney Yamaha. They're unbelievably high tech for 1973/4 with clicker external dampening adjustment and a simple but effective preload adjustment.
It looked as if Arnaco shocks would set the pace for shock development back in 1973 but an inbuilt seal failure problem seemed to end the Arnaco run before they could capture the market. They're close to as good as anything available today except for their unreliability problem but I've got a smart engineer looking at the feasibility of adding a second o-ring seal the see if that works in keeping the oil in and air out. If it does work it's going to save me some money on modern shocks for my bikes.
-
Here is a photo from the early '90s. Shows the shocks with an aluminum sleeve on the body for length, and the dual springs with the spacer/sleeve. I will see if I can get a photo of one of the shocks by itself. I will have to check my notes and see if I have info on where I got the springs. I got 3 pairs of shocks from Charlie over the '70s and had various springs.
(http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p438/sscf_2008/XL480screen.jpg)
Swiss
My current 2 pairs of Curnutts are 5.5" travel and 5.9" travel. The old SL125 had the early 4.7" travel shocks. I bought the 5.5" travel shocks for the XL350 build in '74, finished the bike in '75 (first build). I don't see in my notes where I got the shorter springs from, may have been with the later 5.9" shocks from Charlie?
-
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vintage-Style-Pentagon-Grips-Honda-Mini-trail-Suzuki-/320705764035?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4aab8d9ac3 ;) :D.
Although others considered these whacky I had a pair and quite liked them 8) - they conform to the clenched hand well.
Hmmmmm, maybe, - do you guys promise not to point and laugh :P.
-
Didn't Preston Petty do these style of grips too?
-
I still have a box full of these grips and use them on my bikes. I get them from here http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NOS-Rare-Honda-Pentagon-Black-Rubber-7-8-Grips-0305-/190570164276?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c5eddf034 Darcy :)