OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: TM BILL on August 10, 2013, 08:39:27 am
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I have taken Walters quote from the Classic nats cancellation thread , i did not want to hijack that thread so have started this one .
This cancellation might highlight the need in structural changes. As long as clubs get strangled with huge demands of fees for the old boys club in Melbourne and have to bow to senseless imposed rules , who wants to put up their hand .Look at NewZealand there is your answer ;)
IMHO that could well be a part of the problem ::) however FWIW its not all beer and skittles in NZ either ;)
A couple of things to remember when comparing though is that there are probably more active VMXers in Qld alone than there are in the whole of NZ .
While NZ is a very small country it is made up of 2 main islands and the cost of taking a van on the ferry for the 3 hr crossing return cost more than a flight with all riding gear and extras to the east coast of Australia .
I think that both countries could learn from each other, only my opinion but the NZ template is flawed in that there is no national guidelines or structure , each organising body clubs or individual can make up the classes as they choose and this can lead to confusion if a person travels to an event only to be told you have to ride up a class . On the upside no VMX events are run under the national motorcycle sport body ( motorcycling NZ ) in fact they are avoided like Leppers and any association with them is seen as a negative and costly exercise .
What we refer to as our nationals could be questioned as they are not sanctioned by anyone oother than the organisers and the participents , but as there is no governing body for VMX in NZ then they are what they are .
On the upside ( a few forum members have sampled this ) anybody from anywhere in the world can rock up to any VMX event in NZ , sign an indemnity waiver borrow a bike and come racing . No paperwork nessercery ( other than the indemnity ) no cost other than entry fee, no club memberships , no licence and no invisable fat cats with their hands out for money .
Any individual or group can run an event at a moments notice and again we dont need anyones consent other than the landowners .
I have been fortunate to race VMX in Australia on a number of occasions and have attended 6 of the 9 CD events , racing over there has been made possibly by the generosity of Aussie VMXers many of who i now consider my good friends . Many other Kiwis have experienced the same hospitality and generosity and we are happy to reciprocate when possible .
Recently due to the economic downturn the travelling has stopped a bit , while airfares have increased marginally it is the admin cost of racing in Australia that kills it for me . Due to the MA tie up we have to join MNZ ( see above ) and then purchase additional cover approx $350.00 per event before we can even enter . Two of us were booked to ride the CC last year but an 11th hr admin experience with MA put paid to that , pity as Connondale is my favorite track anywhere and the CC is a kick arse event .
Again in my experience MNZ as bad as they are, look like the Arc angel Gabriel when compared to MA . The recent 11th hour screwing of the QVMX clubs Connondale classic event highlights what a bunch of $%#%^&*$#@%S MA is and that they do nothing for the VMX movment except take take take . A lesser club may have had to pull the pin on what is a fantastic event all in the name of GREED and beuracracy.
VMX in NZ could learn from VMX in Aus by way of the classes you run and if you go to an event anywhere in Aussie you know that the rules /classes will be uniformed . Also in the past at national and bigger events you get bigger numbers in all classes making for better racing .
Probably not possible for reasons beyond me , but wouldn't a joint governing body for the two countries ( only for VMX / Vinduro ) with only rules that pertain to VMX ( not obscure general rules put in for the many other disaplines ) a VMX licence only for events both sides of the ditch and any all profits tipped back into VMX events and promotion .
I guarantee we could run a nationals this side of the water on a golf course type track to suit all from pre 60 to pre 90 and sidecars of all eras , all you gotta do is show up :)
Worldwide we are a small minority of a minority sport ( offroad motorcycling ) would be nice if we could unite in our part of the world and play together ;)
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Following your lead Bill, in not wanting to hijack the Classic Champs thread (although I kinda did, sorry ;-) ), I posted this .....
It appears that there is plenty of support in Qld for events but stuffed if I'm travelling up there on a regular basis! I feel a National Championship, to be fair, should be run over two events at opposite ends of the Nation (be it Qld & Vic or WA & NSW), yeh I know, if we can't run one event how the hell are we going to run two ;-)
I am sick to death of MA & MV (can't discuss other state bodies, although things look good in Qld) slowly killing motorcycle sport in this country! I see the thousands that flock to AFL or V8 Supercars, our sport has just not been managed correctly.
I think we need to go back to a post of mine from a couple of weeks ago where I brought up the subject of the AASA motorsport controlling body which is basically Benalla Auto Club (Winton Raceway), the Australian Roadrace Championship, 'Formula Extreme' is run under the AASA banner and Terry Oneil who runs the Championship gets television broadcasting for all rounds & classes. The MA Roadrace Championship doesn't get air-time!!!
I know the guys at the Winton (Vic) Motocross Club (run under AASA) welcome vintage MX riders/racers, they would prepare their track to suit what ever we wanted, their track is right next to a camp-ground with permenant toilet/showers, which is also right next to Winton roadrace circuit. The Winton Club has quite a few VMX riders already.
I have been given a name & number of a chap at Benalla Auto Club to speak to regarding MA clubs switching over to AASA, it is Adam on 03 5766 4235. I suggest that vintage mx club Committee members get onto this guy and make things happen.
As President of Mitchell Recreational Motorcycle Club, I have been speaking to a guy called Heath, who is the President of Winton MX Club, he has welcomed our rec club members to their monthly mx ride days and he has said that he will do what ever it takes to make VMX riders happy there.
THE TIME FOR COMPLAINING & BITCHING IS OVER, THOSE THAT CARE ABOUT THE SPORT, LET'S MAKE IT HAPPEN !!!!
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Perhaps it is time for clubs to recognise what's actually involved in running a national title? The days of knocking out a track in the backyard and letting everyone enter on the day are over. With the effort to present a reasonably professional looking event getting more all the time, plus the huge over burden in administration and bureaucracy, it's really got to be seen as a BIG job.
To my mind, any club that takes on a national title, even in a field so peripheral as VMX, needs to start a LONG way out. At least a year ahead. Find out EVERYTHING that has to be covered, and dig some more. Dot all the i's, cross all the t's, and check all the boxes.
And promote the thing!! For at least 12 months. There are so many competing interests and peoples time and money are limited.
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true Graeme,
perhaps also give more support within your sport,if you truely want it to continue !.
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Graeme I don't think any of the current clubs running events (or attempting to) need to recognize what's involved in running a meeting, they've all done it before. The added costs & regulations placed on them by the controlling body of the sport is what is making it harder.
There has always been a need for toilets, water-truck, flag marshalls, first-aid, canteen, commentator, start-gate and other such things, so there is nothing new there.
There is no reason why we can't "knock up a track in the backyard" and call it a National Championship; it's not like every man and his dog will do it.
I will speak to Winton (Vic) MX Club and see if they're up for running a National event later in the year, I will assist them, AND I will ask others (all you guys) to assist also. Let's see how that goes?
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GO Johnny GO GO GO!
And Scooter News will promote it to our 800 or so readers, so let us know when it's ready!
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Why do you have to run events under the ma banner , start your own affiliation and make it basic , no wonder vinduros are popular ,all this bulls%$# in the vmx scene
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Interesting.Non vmx but my son and his mates 3 months ago over a beer thought there are no 2 stroke champs in NZ,lets run one. Went and saw the farmer,put out the entry forms for 3 months time,promoted,had a web site where you can enter to win a free bike to ride and its all go. Toilets, ambulance,flag marshalls organised.
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I could be wrong, but it seems to me that MA treats the CMXNS, PCMXNS and CDTNs as much "bigger" events than they actually are - particularly in terms of them being cash cows for MA, and in terms of the risk they represent.
Only the very fastest guys at the VMX Nats are pushing harder than the the fastest guys at a typical modern club MX, and the average level of commitment at the Nats is lower than at the average club day.
To compare the VMX/DT Nats with historic road racing or modern MX or even modern DT shows the gulf.
Anecdotally, the injuries I'm aware of support this.
If MA won't come to the party and reduce some of the costs/requirements to a more appropriate level, then perhaps our "National Title" should be run as Open events? It would mean losing formal recognition, but (IMHO) that is a small price to pay compared to having three of the four scheduled events cancelled in two years...
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Interesting.Non vmx but my son and his mates 3 months ago over a beer thought there are no 2 stroke champs in NZ,lets run one. Went and saw the farmer,put out the entry forms for 3 months time,promoted,had a web site where you can enter to win a free bike to ride and its all go. Toilets, ambulance,flag marshalls organised.
This event organised by 3 young blokes is the event everyone is talking about over here ATM ;D Modern and vintage blokes alike are looking forward to a MX event with the sound of real bikes and espescially 500cc 2ts on full song :)
Bring it on and congrats to Jason and his mates for taking the inicative 8)
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Graeme I don't think any of the current clubs running events (or attempting to) need to recognize what's involved in running a meeting, they've all done it before. The added costs & regulations placed on them by the controlling body of the sport is what is making it harder.
No personal offence, though if they have all done it before ,how come it flopped. :-\
Yes the paper trail, risk assessment is a known killer. This I believe is where we have to encourage others to become involved more as non official's and officials,support them for the future of the sport or there isn't going to be a VMX sport.
I've read twice this week people suggesting selling their bikes on this forum cause of all the bs, lets embrace the mistakes, use them and move forward. :)
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GO Johnny GO GO GO!
And Scooter News will promote it to our 800 or so readers, so let us know when it's ready!
No offence taken 247 ;-)
Ok I'll start making inquiries with Winton (Vic) track and AASA and see what I can get off the ground, for this year or next, maybe Post Classic and Classic?
I see it now The Scooter-News Australian Vintage Motocross Championships, incorporating Classic and Post Classic Championships.
I will be aiming for it to be the 'backyard championships', meaning we are going back to basics, if I can make something happen I expect you all to help in some way, I'll hopefully have first response from my inquiries on Monday or Tuesday, stay tuned :-)
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If MA won't come to the party and reduce some of the costs/requirements to a more appropriate level, then perhaps our "National Title" should be run as Open events? It would mean losing formal recognition, but (IMHO) that is a small price to pay compared to having three of the four scheduled events cancelled in two years...
Nathan you've unearthed one of my core beliefs with regards to the Nats. The very first Nats at Dargle in '92, which I had a lot to do with, was run as a big Penrith club day and it was an amazing success. The following year the event went to Ravenswood where Bendigo club honcho Brian Clarke went through the process with MA to have the event ratified as an official Australian Championship. I disagreed with Brian's actions at the time, believing that the costs of running the meeting from here on in were going to escalate and history has proved me right. I recall the subject being raised at a meeting prior to the '95 Nats at Tanunda where I gained the insight that the majority of racers were prepared to forgo ''official" championship status in exchange for a less financial outlay and a looser ''feel'' to the event. I got the vibe that a good percentage of racers weren't all that fussed whether their championship wins or placing's were officially noted in the MoMS or not, knowledge and acceptance of their championship status among their peers being more important.
Whatever you think on the subject, it's pretty bloody obvious that something's wrong with the system we've got now. The two cancellations can't be levelled at the era split as I'm sure some are thinking. I'm certain that the extraordinary costs MA imposes on clubs to run a championship and the ever increasing MA regulation and control that go hand in hand are the real culprits here. It's time we took control of our sports holy grail back and I don't necessarily mean succeeding from official MA Championship status either. MA has to look closely at our side of the sport and understand that it's a unique situation. We can't make up the fees with huge sponsorships or spectator income like our brother sports can. A whole new fee structure is needed before we run out of clubs willing to go through the MA financial wringer. If that falls flat perhaps its time to either form our own AHRMA style organisation or to revert back to the big club day format.
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You right Mark but even our Brother sports are struggling as we are.
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Its a prestige event and MA might be trying to up hold that for that reason.
.riders travel to the titles because it is an Australian Title.You dont see the amount of comitment to travel for a big Open event.
We have to factor in many reasons why it was cancelled.The planets need to align 8)
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Ok Im not up on all the MA side of things but what do they do for us (sorry question key is US ). Like many Ive heard all sorts of things , like our insurance pays for the likes of Crusty Demons type events . But lets remember to be truthful we are a very small mob and that we feel MA has no recognition of our needs . Ok lets send MA a letter stating this and ask what we get for our money and if they (who work for us and are paid by us )cant give us an answer to help us we look to starting our own controlling body . just some thoughts on a Sat morning . Iain
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[quote
Ok I'll start making inquiries with Winton (Vic) track and AASA and see what I can get off the ground, for this year or next, maybe Post Classic and Classic?
I see it now The Scooter-News Australian Vintage Motocross Championships, incorporating Classic and Post Classic Championships.
I will be aiming for it to be the 'backyard championships', meaning we are going back to basics, if I can make something happen I expect you all to help in some way, I'll hopefully have first response from my inquiries on Monday or Tuesday, stay tuned :-)][/quote]
Just a question
,Is there ramifications to MA Licence holders/members competeing in non MA sanctioned events,
I notice that in the australian Superbike champs (MA) verse fx superbikes (AASA) there are does not appear to be any riders competeing in both events,
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Ok Im not up on all the MA side of things but what do they do for us (sorry question key is US ).
Ok lets send MA a letter stating this and ask what we get for our money
According to the MoMS, the three members of the MA classic motocross and dirt track commission are Dave Tanner, Shane Fraser and Kerry Marsh, all of whom appear on this forum. That would be a good place to start getting your message across if you wish to pass on the message of discontent. No point shotgunning the messengers though, but those guys are your conduit.
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I have met Dave a few times , Fatboy and Freaky I talk to a fair bit , these gents are working for us in my opinion . The trouble seems to be in the upper reaches of MA and the committee for VMX is caught between a rock and hard place . In another life I was a committee member of NSWMA for Trials , with what riders asked of us and then the hard ass stand by NSWMA I lasted a year of bashing my head on the wall lost a few friends who thought I was not working hard enough for them . Dave ,Shane and Kerry should not be put in a position to bag MA as they are our only hope of some help from MA . Iain
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So who do discontented punters go to then Iain , this seems to be how MA operates . They give the punters a face but the face is a mate so nobody wants to offend them or ask akward questions .
This forum is a perfect place for MA to have a Q&A board allbeit the commisioners or somone higher up the chain to address the concerns of the masses .
I was a modern MX commisioner with MNZ in another life until like yourself i realised due to the way the system is i was working for the man rather than those i was elected to represent.
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Bill I think go to the top , Not our reps or the state bodies as the buck seems to get passed . Motorcycling Australia managing director if he cant give us an answer as to why we are being bled dry . These people are paid by us when we and many others volunteer our time and in some cases pay out of our own pockets . The letter should be from concerned vintage dirt bike riders . Iain
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I think we need to go back to a post of mine from a couple of weeks ago where I brought up the subject of the AASA motorsport controlling body which is basically Benalla Auto Club (Winton Raceway), the Australian Roadrace Championship, 'Formula Extreme' is run under the AASA banner and Terry Oneil who runs the Championship gets television broadcasting for all rounds & classes. The MA Roadrace Championship doesn't get air-time!!!
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John,I know from seeing Formula Extreme on the box that they had good fields of riders,I am guessing most riders also held MA licences,Do you know if MA got there noses out of joint having "their" members riding in some one else's event,I seem to recall years ago they would threaten license cancellation or some other crap If you didn't always play in their sandpit, I think anyone could run an independent race if they had all the right permits,insurances etc from all the relevent authorities,Shitloads of money & time & helpers would also be needed, AASA is a good solution which would fix those problems but would require total commitment from everybody,Clubs included,I guess ya gotta start somewhere :)
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A few years ago, we (Ray Ryan, Ken Smith, Firko, Don Newell, Averill Grayson, myself and others)tried to get a "VMX Riders Association" off the ground after a similar spate of discontent among the troops.
It was not intended to replace or pull out of MA, but give us a united voice on the major issues affecting our sphere of interest.
The idea was promoted for over a year, with information stands at two CDs, and two VMX Nats.
VMX Mag ran full ads and at least one article.
It was advertised and an editorial in ADB.
We were given the opportunity at many event briefings to state our case.
Letters and posters stating the aims of the Association went to every club invoved in VMX at that time.
Membership was $20 per year.
We considered we,d need at least 100 members to make a meaningfull representation if we were to be viable.
If everyone that applauded the concept, and pledged they would join did so we'd have been a goer.
Long story short, with less than 50 members after nearly two years we gave up, returned the membership fees to those who did join, and accepted that although there was a lot of talk, in reality apathy reigns.
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[quote
Ok I'll start making inquiries with Winton (Vic) track and AASA and see what I can get off the ground, for this year or next, maybe Post Classic and Classic?
I see it now The Scooter-News Australian Vintage Motocross Championships, incorporating Classic and Post Classic Championships.
I will be aiming for it to be the 'backyard championships', meaning we are going back to basics, if I can make something happen I expect you all to help in some way, I'll hopefully have first response from my inquiries on Monday or Tuesday, stay tuned :-)]
Just a question
,Is there ramifications to MA Licence holders/members competeing in non MA sanctioned events,
I notice that in the australian Superbike champs (MA) verse fx superbikes (AASA) there are does not appear to be any riders competeing in both events,
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No, and the nice folk who own Winton will be particularly supportive if MA tried to pull any crap on riders - Bob Jane took on CAMS and won (easily) ~20 years ago. Since then, the anti-competition laws have only gotten stronger and better understood.
While I've heard MA has made occasional threats, nobody is stupid enough to try to make good on them (not even CAMS).
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I've ridden Formula Extreme events, they accepted either AASA or MA. To ride their Friday 'test & tune' days, you take out a one-day AASA licence to ride. When I did the last Winton MX practise day, they accepted either MA or AASA licences.
The guys at Winton and AASA are so easy to get along with, even more so now that Mick Ronke isn't there any more (RIP).
I will get more info this week and come back to you guys with some answers.
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Its a prestige event and MA might be trying to up hold that for that reason.
.riders travel to the titles because it is an Australian Title.You dont see the amount of comitment to travel for a big Open event.
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Can't say I agree with you there VMX247.....
THE most prestigious event I've attended was WAVMX's 15th year anniversary. I believe over 160 entries and 200 plus bikes. Riders came from far and wide with a host of riders from overseas as well. I'd never seen so many CCM's in one place!
I believe the club went to great lengths to avoid ALL the complications of dealing with MA and their outrageous hoops of bureaucracies.
Whats more, there was no racing for trophies OR championship status and yet everybody had the throttle wide open from the very get go.
Personally, I think the model that you westies have for VMX is a great example on how VMX can thrive without all the fuss!
Mark
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QUOTE
Its a prestige event and MA might be trying to up hold that for that reason.
Riders travel to the titles because it is an Australian Title.You dont see the amount of comitment to travel for a big Open event.
UNQUOTE
Can't say I agree with you there VMX247.....
oh well !! we've had every other theory :D
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Yes in deedy! ;)
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Long story short, with less than 50 members after nearly two years we gave up, returned the membership fees to those who did join, and accepted that although there was a lot of talk, in reality apathy reigns.
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Competetors are the only thing that will keep events going.
For what ever reason the numbers are dwindling.
Seems to be the same with everything. ;)
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I have long held the view that the Nationals should be held by MA as it's their champoinship and they have the paid personal to do it.
Too long have these buggers used our free labour and expertise to line their coffers.
This country is far too vast to expect ammatures to travel from one end to the other for a series of races and therefore it is better off to hold one-day or week-end championships. The controlling body should be taking over and holding that event. This holds for modern and VMX.
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Much the same as Col.
I have seen it all before, the reason things are shit is apathy I have no love at all for MA and the way it is structured and until you understand how MA is structured you will continue to think that it should function.
The only long term solution to ALL Australian competition motorcycling needs is a complete overhaul of MA and a new constitution. It would take thousands of vested interests to unite and we simply have far to much apathy for that. This again will turn out to be just another chest beating exercise which will die down and disappear in few weeks time. Why not put your energy into something like getting the nats back on track?
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^^^^^^ Agreed
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Yep!
I think it would be reasonable for us to expect that MA MV MCNSW or any other controlling body to take this debacle over and get the Nats back on track.
MA invests OUR money in a stagnant museum (that no one gets to see) and no doubt make a bucket load of coin from their new insurance venture that comes from US.
The top lot all use vehicles that WE pay for when they actually get off their arses and attend meetings.
How about investing some of OUR money into a sport that they make money off of!
For too long they have been riding the wave of money paid for by local clubs to host national events.
Controlling bodies make the $$$$$$ from these events WITHOUT ANY RISK while the hosting club struggles to make ends meet......
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Can anyone tell me what MAs mission statement is ?
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To the best of my knowledge so feel free to correct me.
MA NSW has over 10 million in trust plus offices in Sydney worth 2 million and they own no land you can ride on. Think about that for minute.
Does this organization do what it's membership believes it should do?
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To the best of my knowledge so feel free to correct me.
MA NSW has over 10 million in trust plus offices in Sydney worth 2 million and they own no land you can ride on. Think about that for minute.
Does this organization do what it's membership believes it should do?
None of the controlling bodies do what we think they should be doing!
As far as I'm concerned, it's all about "global business models".
Just like the banks, forget about the punters, they (we) have to pay somehow >:(
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Can anyone tell me what MAs mission statement is ?
Its not on there website. But then there website is very dysfunctional and maybe I just cant find it.
There is this thou.
http://www.motorcycling.com.au/PDF_Files/General/au_strategicplan.pdf
Cliff notes
This a business plan for 2009/2013
The only things finished on this plan are out of the 100 odd listed ( better get a hurry on as 2013 is just about over)
1) Move into new offices
2)Enforce code of conduct
3) Award night for clubs who have done good stuff
4) Make $100,000 available for club grants.
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Is that 100k still available?
A small chunk of that could go along way to getting a host club I'm sure
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Is that 100k still available?
A small chunk of that could go along way to getting a host club I'm sure
The 100k was per year across all clubs
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Is that 100k still available?
A small chunk of that could go along way to getting a host club I'm sure
which brings us back to my argument....as seen above.
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Interesting how things have not changed. I took Ray Ryan to Auckland speedway one night and he said if only we could run our own sport and just peg out a track and ride like you guys. At this stage VMX mag was starting and the C/Dirt seed had started to develope, 2 years later i took Ray to "old thumpers" in the south island,again he was jealous of the just run a meeting where ever you want attitude. How many years ago was that and nothing has changed. :(
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Bazza
This is my opinion. MA NSW has no reason to change. They who run it are doing just fine thanks for asking. There well paid and have a very nice office too pretend to work from. They answer to no one and dont for second think David White can do anything. If it wasn't for pesky bike racers life would be perfect for them after all they are not really needed anymore for income but the extra money is handy.
Since MA NSW became insolvent back in the 90's ( after they pissed away all the spare cash on running the GP ) They have done nothing but hoard money away so there is no chance of losing there jobs again, this is first and foremost the business plan all the fee's they raised to save there ass back in 90's have never been lowered afterwards ( Like what was promised ) and have only continued to rise.
Enough ranting what we need is a Australian title this year and moaning about MA wont fix that.
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slakewell why call it ma nsw when it is mnsw. mnsw does have land at nowra which it is developing which all take`s time.as for money in the bank i don`t think mnsw have that much but you are right about the offices but under valued the property side of mnsw and it was the acu that went insolvent.
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I'd love to know what the story is behind the Nowra MCC handing over their grounds to MNSW.
I'd not seen/heard anything from the NDMCC suggesting that they were having trouble maintaining the land - I don't know what was in it for the club.
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Sorry if I a tad slow on the acronyms side of things but that's bureaucracy for you they change the heading on the stationary faster than the toilet paper.
Now back to the holy Nowra site that's been in the wind for how long now? If you where to measure that against our QLD brothers and there newly acquired facility near Harrisville I'm sure you could see the embarrassment.
As for money in the bank why not email them and ask that question and post the reply right here and disprove my numbers?
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As for money in the bank why not email them and ask that question and post the reply right here and disprove my numbers?
For those that wish to confirm these sort of details, as a public company shouldn't they provide a copy of financial statements in their annual report at the AGM or direct to members??
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I have long held the view that the Nationals should be held by MA as it's their champoinship and they have the paid personal to do it.
I don't agree, MA or SCBs should never run events including HBB. That is not their job, they are there to do the heavy lifting so the State Controlling Body's can support the clubs to run race meeting and I do mean Clubs.
Riders come and go, but it is strong clubs that are the most important part. They put up arrows & tape, do the paper work, keep score pull it all down and pick up the rubbish, for the riders. God knows when your doing all that it can sometimes feels like you don't have the support of SCB or the riders.
Now ask this question why do MA need to charge such a high permit fee to run a national? When I ask this question which is often, the answer I get from someone who would know, is. The states wont pay their share of the costs of running MA. So they put the cost on to the national permits. Easy for the states (It's not us, It's them) But their the same.
As for Simplicity and Bullshit. The world has moved on and the lawyers and Accountants. (Bullshit) have won.
End Rant :P
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MA makes their money from selling licences, your guess is as good as mine where they spend it all ;-)
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MA makes their money from selling licences,
The licence fees pay the insurance. So I'm told.
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For those that wish to confirm these sort of details, as a public company shouldn't they provide a copy of financial statements in their annual report at the AGM or direct to members??
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Yes they do. Got them here. Your club delegate should be able to provide you with a copy on request.
To the best of my knowledge so feel free to correct me.
MA NSW has over 10 million in trust plus offices in Sydney worth 2 million and they own no land you can ride on. Think about that for minute.
Does this organization do what it's membership believes it should do?
Where the fork do you get your numbers from???
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2013 Classic Nats, promoted by Motorcycling Qld, Wyaralong, 1,2&3 Nov, see main thread for details.