OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Vinduro => Topic started by: Nathan S on July 30, 2013, 03:25:55 pm
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I've been hearing murmurs, figured it would be best to come out and ask:
From the very first Vinduro, eligibility hasn't been a big issue - I haven't been to a single Vinduro where there hasn't been at least one bike that's too new for the pre-85 cut-off.
While the events are non-competitive, the numbers of rule benders low, and the degree of rule bending has also been low, it's been easy to ignore.
Personally, I think this has worked well*, and is one of the good points of the Vinduro scene - it avoids the petty squabbling over the rule book that plagues the VMX world.
How does VERi plan to address this issue into to the future?
Is there any movement toward allowing pre-90 bikes to participate in Vinduros?
http://www.iphoneogram.com/p/481212843641881443_300072127
*In the interests of full disclosure: I have ridden an '86 model bike at one Vinduro, but only after my '84 model broke down.
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Nathan
I have to ask, i maybe a little slow, or something has gone right over my head.
But, what has "GAY Marriage" got to do with the addition of Pre 90 and ineligible Pre 85 bikes?
your link??
I also would like to know the outcome of the rumor, but I think i know Drakies opinion already:) NO:)
lol
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http://www.iphoneogram.com/p/481212843641881443_300072127
Bwahahahaha ... err .... ummm ... Nathan ... you seem to be in a mood for full disclosure .... are you trying to tell us something ;D ;D ;D ;D
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it avoids the petty squabbling over the rule book that plagues the VMX world
Plague is a big word Nathan. I've seen more eligibility hissy fits on this forum in six years than I've seen at the track in 25 years. Eligibility dramas are mostly a forum beat ups, we rarely see them at the track.
As far as vinduro's I totally agree...keep it simple. One thing that has bothered me a little is the all encompassing pre 85 cutoff. As with my VMX and VDT, I have a leaning towards the older classes so I'd like to see some sort of place for older short travel (pre 75-78) bikes to be used, whether it be separate events for short travel bikes or simplified sections for the simpler bikes.
Has there been much attention given to the older enduro bike? Because vinduro's are non competitive events it probably isn't a priority but because of the pre 85 cutoff I presume that most vinduro punters would err towards the newer and more off-road friendly bikes, I'm just as guilty, my own under (slow) construction Vinduro bike is an IT250H with upgraded 43mm forks and 2ls front brake. I'd love a simpler course to ride my DT1 too but I wouldn't like to ride it on the same course designed for long travel bikes (sound familiar ;D).
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Nathan
You figured correctly and its best to enquire with the Veri club committee members and not listen to rumours. You can contact me anytime
Following a very recent committee meeting , we at Veri are in the process of producing the Veri club guidelines , the guidelines shall clarify the years , models and type of bikes that will be eligible including follow on models etc.
We are aiming to clarify most things and most importantly to keep it reliatively simple.
I can confirm prior to the guidelines being available that , It will be a definite pre-85 cut-off .
Shoey
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Leave pre 85 Vinduro alone, it's working fine.
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One Fellow was riding his neat yamaha DT1, and what I saw he went well., there was also ts 125, dt 100, up to 250, montesa mountaineer cota, Triumph 500 twin. Honda Tl trials bikes, etc.
I had a ball.
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Leave pre 85 Vinduro alone, it's working fine.
Sounds good to me:)
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Vinduro in my mind will only ever be PRE 85 bikes, if there going to have a more modern class on old enduro bikes then call it something else and I will go out and look for a more modern enduro bike to ride in the Pre 90, Pre 95 etc class-social event
Mick.
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That 86 model XR350 on the cover of VMX magazine looks good ehh.
I note that in NSW a vehicle has to be 30 years old to be classed as vintage (only 25 in Victoria and not sure about other states) which makes 84 model bikes ineligible at this point in time. As enduro bikes had to be registered 'back in the day', it would seem reasonable to adopt a ruling compliant with the legislation in each state (or common to all if you wish to think in terms of Australia as one nation). That takes out the 'its all about me' mentality, places a club as an identity in its own right that will survive past the original brilliant idea and membership of its original stakeholders, as some riders are older / younger and relate to different machinery. Only my opinion of course.
Of course VERi can do what it pleases; it's articles of association state 'pre 85 bikes' and 'non competitive' events in places, or change its mind when it wishes.
Shame really, as I love riding my 87 WR400. (and my 83 xc250, 84 AE 500 and my 85 R80G/SPD (it's a carry over model:))
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This is my take on it as a NSWelshman and seeing that I'm currently working on the details for an upcoming vinduro I think the ruling should be at the discretion of the organiser. I am all for pre-90. As a few have mentioned this is not racing, just social riding. It appears that this pre-85 rule is something adopted from the vmx scene. I had a good discussion about this with a few guys at the bike show at Sutto's recently.
I put this to you then. When Firko and others got VMX going in 1988 approx, Pre 75 and 70 bikes were 13-18 years old respectfully. Now 2013, we have Pre-90 bikes which are 23years old. So when does someone get up and say that a Pre-90 bike is eligable, cause from where I'm sitting it's already eligable. Bikes did not fundamentally change that much since 1985 to 1990. Sure we had rear disc and some upside down forks but so did KTM back in 84.
Wayne XC83 has mentioned that he enjoys riding his 87 WR400. So if he turns up at my event am I going to turn him away because his bike is not Pre-85, F#CK NO!!! I would rather have him join in and enjoy the event than have him turned away. I think it's time to move with the times and promote the Vinduro scene in NSW and that means being flexible to the riders needs not the organisors wants.
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I am not either a Pre85 or Pre90 state of mind but I respect people that are.
I have both in VMX and Vinduro and always try to run in the spirit of those around me and the vintage that is being represented.
At Harrow there were bikes clearly post 85 and others that were so modern in the bolt on's that they rankled my senses but I didn't feel too enraged....
One thought I would like to put forward is a class of bikes known as 'exceptions'... A number no more than 5 percent of the field that showcases some of the post 85 Enduro weapons.... Entered at the discretion of the event organisers or some other ballot? An' 89 Cagiva a or a 87 Husky?
Having only been involved with the scene in the last couple of years I probably have missed complications more obvious to others but perhaps this is a way of slowly evolving the Vintage scene rather than consigning it to a particular time....
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I see where your coming from Maicoman. It's absolutely not my intention to stir the pot here but should it be a moving 25 year gap IE its 2013 minus 25 equals 1988 and it moves along every year. Bear in mind that Vinduro is not competitive so any performance advantage of a newer model bike is not an issue. Just a thought. J PS I ride a 1975 bike
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Nada, was it too obscure?
Basic point was that if someone wants to ride a newer old bike at a non-competitive event, then it makes no difference to me - in fact, it makes as little difference as the Sub someone else orders for themself (or who they choose to marry).
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Can someone explain the reason pre 85 was selected as a cut off. I am struggling to think of the relevance as all technologies were around then - water cooled, single shock, disc brakes, USD forks, high performance 4 strokes. What am I missing or is it just one of those arbitrary lines drawn in the sands of time? I only have 1 pre 90 bike so I am quite happy with the rule but am curious now it has been debated here. Thanks 8)
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I counted at least ten bikes at Harrow that didn't fit the VMX-style criteria of 'Pre-85 and mechanically identical carry-overs' - about 5% of the field.
(I didn't check this time, but previous experiences makes me sure a number of the KDXes, XRs and ITs were using the unwritten carry-over rule).
First question is: Does the sport/the event benefit by turning those people away?
Second question is: Did anyone have less fun because those bikes were there? If you answered Yes, then I'm genuinely interested to know how/why they diminished your fun.
Don't get me wrong - if someone turned up on a KTM450EXC, then they have no place as a "competitor" at a vinduro. But I struggle to get upset at the idea of someone on an 86 XR350 enjoying themselves...
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To me Pre 85 is a suspension cut off.
A 86 Honda was much different to a 85 mostly because of the cartridge fork.
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The beauty of Vinduro is in its simplicity. Not competitive. No scrutineering. No flag marshalling.Ride when you feel like it. Apart from safety there are absolutely no rules to adhere to. No pressure. This is what is appealing to plenty of people that have got into it.
If it is Pre 85 bring a 84 or older. If Pre 90 bring a 89. I personally don't give a toss what anyone else rides, as long as they are there having a bit of fun. I ride a 84 KX 500 with a non working headlight, arguably the worst 'single trail ' mount on the planet and certainly not a trail / enduro bike. I ride it because on these Vinduro rides you can actually get into top gear on some sections, unlike our VMX tracks where only two gears are used. I am looking forward to Cookardinia, nice and open.
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To me Pre 85 is a suspension cut off.
A 86 Honda was much different to a 85 mostly because of the cartridge fork.
My 81 has cartridge fork
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I think, and correct me if im wrong!
The idea is to drag out the older bikes, EG: Pre 80 etc
If it was pre 90, everyone would just ride pre 90 Japanese machines due to the travel and the bikes handle better etc etc.
all we would see is the Big 5 and few Husky's:)
Its nice to see the old Euro bikes making a presence, i personally wouldn't ride one, but i like to look and admire them.
if it was pre 90, i'll only see Jap bikes:)
Just my opinion:)
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To me Pre 85 is a suspension cut off.
A 86 Honda was much different to a 85 mostly because of the cartridge fork.
Two 1986 models is not enough to write the rules around, particularly considering the way cartridge emulators do quite a good job of bridging the gap between damper rod forks and cartridge forks.
And not to mention the popularity of fitting cartridge forks to pre-85 Hondas anyhow...
The pre-85 VMX cut-off was simply the 5-year round number.
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Nada, was it too obscure?
Basic point was that if someone wants to ride a newer old bike at a non-competitive event, then it makes no difference to me - in fact, it makes as little difference as the Sub someone else orders for themself (or who they choose to marry).
Ahhh Ha i see your point: Like i said "Straight over the top of my head" :):):)
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I think, and correct me if im wrong!
The idea is to drag out the older bikes, EG: Pre 80 etc
If it was pre 90, everyone would just ride pre 90 Japanese machines due to the travel and the bikes handle better etc etc.
all we would see is the Big 5 and few Husky's:)
Its nice to see the old Euro bikes making a presence, i personally wouldn't ride one, but i like to look and admire them.
if it was pre 90, i'll only see Jap bikes:)
Just my opinion:)
People choose bikes for a variety of reasons, but almost everyone's bike choice will fit into one or more of the following three groups:
It's what they own;
It's what think is the "best" bike for the class/event;
It's something that turns them on.
Not everyone is out to "win", especially at a Vinduro. If they were, we would already be entirely dominated by converted 1984 model 250cc MXers and 1984 Euro enduro bikes (KTM250GS & Husky WR400s in particular).
If everyone was out to win, nobody would turn up on Motorsport XLs, TL250s, TS-anythings, XL185s, XR200s, Thunder Dogs, Rokons, SL125s, or any of the zillion other "uncompetitive" bikes we regularly see at Vinduros.
Changing to pre-90 would not change that.
I'm not particularly advocating a move to pre-90, but the reasoning behind a strict pre-85 cut-off is not clear to me.
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Well, I thought it was nice to see the DKW/ Sachs being ridden, if it was vintage motocross that DKW would have been left in the shed. Vinduro is great people are bring out any model bike, as for vmx its not surviving, yes I will give it another 10 years. vintage motocross will be struggling.
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As Shoey has already mentioned, all VERi events will be running a pre85 format with a list of eligible flow ons soon to be drawn up and set in stone. Pre 85 means bikes that were built with a m/y designation of 1984 or before, not 1985 models that your particular example of was manufactured in 1984. If you're uncertain of your bikes eligibility than the list will be there for you to refer to, if it doesn't appear as a recognised flow on then IT CANT BE RIDDEN AT A VERi EVENT. VERi doesn't wish to exclude anyone but its inevitable that a few here or there might miss out. Like everything else in life Vinduro must have parameters and at this point in time and for the foreseeable future the above mentioned parameters are what shall be laid down as far as VERi events go. Discussion may carry on here obviously but it will not sway what has been discussed at length and agreed on, for the information of interested parties VERi has committee member Paul Kalika (Canam370 on OzVmx) who is VP and designated eligibility consultant, he may be contacted anytime if you wish to make any further enquires.
Regards, Brendan
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Nathan .... in a nut shell pre 85 is very similar to ( Evo VMX ) air cooled drum brakes and twin shocks.
" If it's not broken Don't play with it"
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As Shoey has already mentioned, all VERi events will be running a pre85 format with a list of eligible flow ons soon to be drawn up and set in stone. Pre 85 means bikes that were built with a m/y designation of 1984 or before, not 1985 models that your particular example of was manufactured in 1984. If you're uncertain of your bikes eligibility than the list will be there for you to refer to, if it doesn't appear as a recognised flow on then IT CANT BE RIDDEN AT A VERi EVENT. VERi doesn't wish to exclude anyone but its inevitable that a few here or there might miss out. Like everything else in life Vinduro must have parameters and at this point in time and for the foreseeable future the above mentioned parameters are what shall be laid down as far as VERi events go. Discussion may carry on here obviously but it will not sway what has been discussed at length and agreed on, for the information of interested parties VERi has committee member Paul Kalika (Canam370 on OzVmx) who is VP and designated eligibility consultant, he may be contacted anytime if you wish to make any further enquires.
Regards, Brendan
Cool, Cool I can handle that:)
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for the information of interested parties VERi has committee member Paul Kalika (Canam370 on OzVmx) who is VP and designated eligibility consultant, he may be contacted anytime if you wish to make any further enquires.
That is good news to hear Paul has taken on the eligibility for Vinduro at VERi events as I know he likes the Pre 85 bikes in Vinduro
Long live Vinduro Pre 85
Cheers Mick.
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Burn the witch!
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Burn the witch!
8)
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Unlike MX, 84 was not a stand out year for enduro bikes. 89 was when the enduro bikes really changed.
If VERi did make their Vinduros Pre90 the events would not change at all.
The Conondale Vinduro (sorry, Classic Enduro ::)) Sprint will be again Pre90 and I am sure no one will buy a bike just for it. They will ride what they have, like or be able to borrow.
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As far as vinduro's I totally agree...keep it simple. One thing that has bothered me a little is the all encompassing pre 85 cutoff. As with my VMX and VDT, I have a leaning towards the older classes so I'd like to see some sort of place for older short travel (pre 75-78) bikes to be used, whether it be separate events for short travel bikes or simplified sections for the simpler bikes.
Has there been much attention given to the older enduro bike? Because vinduro's are non competitive events it probably isn't a priority but because of the pre 85 cutoff I presume that most vinduro punters would err towards the newer and more off-road friendly bikes, I'm just as guilty, my own under (slow) construction Vinduro bike is an IT250H with upgraded 43mm forks and 2ls front brake. I'd love a simpler course to ride my DT1 too but I wouldn't like to ride it on the same course designed for long travel bikes (sound familiar ;D).
That’s a bit of a furphy, we’re talking about trails here not endlessly whooped out tracks.
Vinduro’s I have ridden so far have suited any age bike, they are not designed for 84 model MXers.
There is often talk about what constitutes a Vinduro bike, personally I believe it should be pre88 but others disagree and majority rules.
I don’t believe though that most people are looking for the latest possible bike to ride.
I know of one 85 KTM500 that gets ridden at some events, he doesn’t choose to ride it because he wants to be the fastest out there or have the most advanced bike, he rides it because he has owned it for at least 2 decades and he has an emotional attachment to it.
Does he have more fun than anyone else? I doubt it as I saw him pushing it back from checkpoint one.
2013 Harrow statistics at hand
By year…
1 x 63
1 x 70
2 x 72
5 x 73
2 x 74
4 x 75
5 x 75
5 x 76
7 x 77
7 x 78
18 x 79
13 x 80
18 x 81
26 x 82
32 x 83
45 x 84 (which will include some 85 models listed as 84)
By brand…
3 x Bultaco
3 x Canam
1 x CZ
1 x DKW
1 x Hodaka
49 x Honda
15 x Husqvarna
2 x Jawa
11 x Kawasaki
7 x KTM
7 x Maico
1 x Montesa
1 x Ossa (thanks Paul)
1 x Rokon
27 x Suzuki
1 x SWM
1 x Triumph
54 x Yamaha
1 x Hybrid
Models…
I can only count 12 MX models (one has owned his since 77)
32 x IT (from 77 to 84 and from 175’s to 490’s)
5 x XT
10 x KDX
17 x PE
6 x TS
6 x XL
37 x XR
plus others includinga KLX, 2 x TL’s, 2 x CT’s, 4 x DT’s, an ER & 2 x DR & a Matador etc.
Clearly guys don’t choose the latest most advanced bike they can.
My theory is that old enduro riders choose race bikes they owned or wanted to own.
Trail riders choose bikes they can ride all day without giving them any grief ( 7 x XR 200’s for example)
Guys that still also race MX may seek out faster bikes like converted MXers
And a chief organizer may choose a bike that will drown easily or have failing electrics.
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Nice info gathering GMC.
Unfortunately this discussion isn't based in logic, as a bike can be legally registered as a vintage bike and still not be eligible under VERi rules. There is no compelling argument to support per-85 thinking, just it's my bat and ball and if you don't like the rules then don't play.
For the record: I would be happy to wait until 2017 to ride my 87 WR in vintage events ( chime in the smart alecs now) just as long as there are logical rules to follow. It's not about me.
GMC I think a skull face mask would be a nice addition to the black ossa :)
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I tend to agree with you XC83.
Had a good conversation with CanAm370 yesterday - what he said made sense and was entirely reasonable, but it did occur to me that there's a lot new issues to be addressed when Rego (of any sort) is entered into the mix.
And that there's still lots of impasses with the VMX rules. Bringing those impasses (and their inevitable conflict and agro) to the non-competitive Vinduro world seems like an Entirely Bad Idea to me - the current approach of turning a blind eye to the small number of ineligible bikes has actually served the sport very well.
Remembering that Vinduros are non-competitive, I note that none of the Gold Medal winners at this year's Harrow were riding ineligible bikes.
All of which leads me to conclude that VERi is about to spend an awful lot of time and effort to solve a non-problem - that in a couple of years, it will become obvious that the juice isn't worth the squeeze...
Actually, I will go one further: Does anyone want to put money against the idea that VMX-style eligibility scrutineering at vinduros will do far more harm than good? (Even when sensible, reasonable blokes like Paul K are doing it).
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Nathan
You didn't like the idea of GMC wearing a skull mask on the ossa?
I guess I was trying to point out that if the law classifies it as a vintage motorcycle, it's a vintage motorcycle. If the bike is rego'd or not doesnt matter, its the fact it is eligible under the laws of the state. Mx bikes were always in enduros, so i wouldnt think you need to worry about their inclusion.
Whilst ever the rules are based on opinion you will always have arguments, by adopting a law you take the opinions out of the equation.
I think any result achieved at Harrow was based totally on rider ability and determination and nothing really to do with the type of bike that was ridden.
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As some one who is restoring my original dream bike TS250X 1986/1987 model to full road rego condition a vinduro is now out of the question yep can be red plated in vic certainly not a motor cross bike and a generation away from the RMX series etc just a trail bike from the eighties and now ???
Just a bloke who trail rode alot and certainly didnt compete back in the day this was the one bike i had the cash to buy new but didnt and i was intending to have a go at a vinduro next year but why bother now i certainly have no affection for a earlier bike than my era.
I am of an age where the kids are getting older the house is paid down and im getting back into restoring and riding the things that where of my era mid to late eighties.
Well i might ride down for a look now but join in and have a go not now i won't might sound like rotten eggs on my behalf but really why bother ???
like i say thats my outlook on the matter
Bruce
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Harrow is only one event on the calendar not all events will be run by VERi so others can have what ever rules they want and some events will be run entirely on private property so the MX converted bikes are still welcome if they put the lights on
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Well there we have it. Bruce is a classic example of a fella wanting to get out there and have a go and already has a bad taste in his mouth due to this bullshit pre 85 format. Lets see a TS250X has a front disc, watercooled and it's red, bugger me so has a 84 CR250. If VERi are doing an eligibility list of bikes, it's a waste of time as you'll always have someone whose bike is not on the list or is just different.
Funny how some up and coming events are already moving with the times. Murphy's Creek Vinduro is pre-90, Bulladellah Vinduro is pre 85ish. Bruce bring your bike to Cookardinia Vinduro in October, you are more than welcome.
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What makes you think an 86 TS250X won't be a legitimate flow on model?
Wait until the rules come out before bagging them.
Cheers, Grahame
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What makes you think an 86 TS250X won't be a legitimate flow on model?
Wait until the rules come out before bagging them.
Cheers, Grahame
84 model has side exhaust port, no AEC, and single frame down tube.
85+ model has centre exhaust port, AEC, and split frame downtube.
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What makes you think an 86 TS250X won't be a legitimate flow on model?
Wait until the rules come out before bagging them.
Cheers, Grahame
And what if it's not? Grahame I've been bagging the pre85 rule for years. It's been pre 85 for so long, it's time for a change. From my perspective I want numbers at my event and changes have to be made. I don't want to have to scrutineer every bike that enters and have to tick them off a list. You need just 1 rule nothing else and at the end of the day, as I said the onus falls on the event organisor.
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Forgive me if I am wrong, but I thought that Vinduro was pre-85 because at the time it started up pre-85 was the most recent Historic Dirt Bike Era in the MA MoMS manual.
These days Pre-90 is the most recent.
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Thanks Nathan. I'm not very knowledgable on TS's and from a casual glance thought they were all the same.
The pre 85 cutoff does not cause any problems with entry numbers in Victoria. Also with reference to Firko wanting short travel friendly events so he can ride a DT1, come and ride any Vic Vinduro and you will see much less capable bikes than that. I do find it interesting that the Victorian events seem to attract a much wider variety of bike, and era, including a lot more trail bikes instead of just Enduro or motocross.
A line must be drawn in the sand re eligibility. Whatever that line is will cause some complaints. This discussion has been done many times before and will continue.
Obviously any event organiser can draw up their own rules. All the same it would be nice if there was a consensus on this major issue.
I don't agree that someone can bring a bike outside the rules and ride just because their eligible bike is not going. Fix it, borrow another or still come and help out, but don't ride.
Cheers, Grahame
(Personally I have put up the argument for a pre 90 cutoff, but am totally happy to go with what is proposed)
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Grahame, at least 5% of bikes at Harrow didn't meet the pre-85 cut off - and I am sure it would be closer to 10% if we were to look more carefully.
I wonder how many businesses would chose to turn away 10% of their paying customers... And I also wonder how many other entrants would be lost "because Johnno isn't coming/they can't share fuel costs/it's all too much hassle now"...
The VERi committee will do what they think is right, as is their right. I just hope they've thought it through carefully, and weighed up the ideology vs pragmatism of their decision.
Forgive me if I am wrong, but I thought that Vinduro was pre-85 because at the time it started up pre-85 was the most recent Historic Dirt Bike Era in the MA MoMS manual.
These days Pre-90 is the most recent.
Bingo.
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Im just bummed cause I love my 87 TTg350 and I cant ride it :( I was on.ly 6 when it was released
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Why people have to get all hissy fit like if their bike doesn't fit the entry criteria for an event FFS
I imagine the people who are running events decided on era cut offs for THEIR events for their own reasons .
If you have a bike that doesn't fit into a particular event then dont enter that event , offer to help run the event and maybe the organisers of that event will be prepared to come and help at the event YOU are going to organise, with the classes that suit your bike and your opinions .
This is what flucks VMX >:( classes are set by event organisers ( you know the people who get out there and actually organise and run events ) and then along comes ole mate who has a bike that is outside the criteria but its what he had in the day so why cant he come and play, " its only for fun " ::) well so is the local modern trail ride up the road, where you will be welcomed ;)
Where does it stop at what point do we stop having flow ons and exeptions ::) " but its non competitive and i cant afford an old bike and a new one , but i can put a greenstripe on my 2014 CRF 450X so i fit in ".
Vinduros ( non competitive ) great concept :)
Cut off date ( Fuct if i know what it should be thats upto the organisers ) but what it is should be upheld .
Whats stopping others from running their own events ( with classes they feel are correct ??? ) hey if its what people want people will come ;)
Why cant people respect individual events and there rules / cut offs ???
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Im just bummed cause I love my 87 TTg350 and I cant ride it :( I was on.ly 6 when it was released
Bring it to Cookardinia mate. Last year we had an 87 TT600 and 88 TT350. No complaints were voiced to me. At the end of the day no one really gives a toss what the other bloke is riding. Classic Dirt9 had plenty of pre90 and 95 bikes doing laps last year. Personally I'm more interested in walking around the pits taking photos and chewing the fat with guys about their bikes regardless of make, year whatever.
Victoria has more calender events per year which I commend and if they feel the need to have a level playing field then so be it. Luckily Cookardinia is just shy of the border. :D
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Well Fook you all, I have just bought myself a 77 model Husqvarna, just because I like that model to ride vinduro, not because its a pre 90 model with more travell and water cooled, just be contented with the rules that have been given. If you don`t like it , just fook off and go ride a late model bike, nathan s you sound like you are just not contented with vintage era.
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Imo its about keeping numbers into the scene ,i don't see pre 90 bike as anything "special"-a rider that want to blast around the track fast will still do it on any era bike ! i just like the camaraderie ,the bikes and doing a few laps here and there at a casual pace ,also having had to sell my two vinduro 83' huskies the only enduro bike that i have now is 87'wr250(building)which will keep me away from these fun events - bummer :)
And there's another rider who wants to participate. Do all you pre 85 advocates have blinders on. These guys want to ride. You mentioned a very important word there B40 comaraderie. That's what it's about.
Honestly I don't see a flood of pre 90 bikes attending these events, hell my newest bike is an 85 model, so no personal agenda there but if I can get 1,2,3 or 4 more riders at an event well that's a positive result for me and the rider.
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That's fine with Cookardinia if that's the way it is to be run. This wasn't the case with the first Cookardinia. If you thought your bike might be 1/85 build then you had to ask the organisers if this would be accepted as a follow on model.
But where do you stop. If an 88 TT350 is ok last year, what will be ok this year, mid 95?
I think what is great about a cutoff is that it makes the paddock seem like a trip back in time to an obviously arbitrary date (pre85) in this case. Everything you look at was made before this cutoff date, not just most things.
I agree with Bill. It's a bit like handing out participation medals at school athletics day because some kids aren't fast enough to win a real medal. Put in the effort to get a legitimate bike and enjoy it. The numbers at these events are not a problem.
If I am sounding hard line here I don't really mean to. I agree that Vinduros are non competitive and if a bike misses by a couple of years, it doesn't really matter. But, if we are talking a concept on what would be an ideal, this is where we should be.
Cheers, Grahame
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I still plan to ride my 1979 IT175F at some Vinduros but my main Vinduro mount is my 1984 IT200.
I don't have an issue with TT350s as they don't seem all that different to my IT200.
Are they any pre-90s motorcycles that would really piss people off because they are too modern? Which ones?
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If Vinduro states pre 85, except it and buy a model bike to suit, end of story, I have a perfect healthy Kawasaki KDX 250 1984 model on ebay going cheap, which would be one of the best rides you would ever have, but no these people are not contented with that, they have too buck the system to get there own way, got to have more travel and water cool. >:(
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I thought the current discussions were to determine what the rules should be.
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One of my rally mates has a saying: "Rallying isn't about cars, it is about people".
He uses it in response to the eternal fiddling of rally classes, championship structure, vehicle eligibility (etc) which are a futile attempt at enticing more competitors.
The more I think about it, the more it becomes obvious that the same is true of the old bike scene:
We talk about bikes, but it's really about people.
All of the dramas that VMX has faced that Vinduros have avoided, are directly because VMX has a much stronger focus on bikes, which takes the focus away from people.
Think about the best event you've ever been to - I bet that your strongest memories are about the people you met, the bullshit sessions over a few grogs, the total stranger who lent you the special tool to keep your bike running, etc.
Nobody says "I really loved that event because 10% of the entrants were told to go home", or similar.
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If Vinduro states pre 85, except it and buy a model bike to suit, end of story, I have a perfect healthy Kawasaki KDX 250 1984 model on ebay going cheap, which would be one of the best rides you would ever have, but no these people are not contented with that, they have too buck the system to get there own way, got to have more travel and water cool. >:(
This aint about an inch more travel ! its a " discussion "let it roll their is no iam right and your wrong !
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If Vinduro states pre 85, except it and buy a model bike to suit, end of story, I have a perfect healthy Kawasaki KDX 250 1984 model on ebay going cheap, which would be one of the best rides you would ever have, but no these people are not contented with that, they have too buck the system to get there own way, got to have more travel and water cool. >:(
See this is the attitude that gets nobody anywhere my view point is i just will not come to an event with an attitude like this anymore leave the old boys with there stuff over there in the corner and i will find something else to do with my bike its getting red plated and i can ride that 90 days a year for 90 dollars anywhere in the state on any road fire trail whatever
Thats enough from me i just think this whole pre 1985 is getting to clicky
Bruce
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Wow there are some interesting responses.
The bat and ball response
The it's all about me response......
And the one that gives a reason for the current pre85 cut off
Well one out of three isn't bad eh
Vintage enduro is not VMX, never will be.
Some people in this discussion do help at events, some run events.
Most of us like to ride more than one event per year, so the run your own pre 2015 event doesn't quite cut it.
Is it appropriate that a few decide what Vinduro is?
Victoria's vintage rego rules I believe are currently at 25 years old which make 88 models eligible, correct me if I'm wrong but they are changing the rules to 30 years old, and are adding a year onto 25 years old requirement each year effectively freezing the eligibility until 2019? It wouldn't be a bad mechanism to adopt? No opinions, just a mechanism based in law.
How many events will bare the VERi name on the calendar?
I see VMX magazine has moved on from pre85, the XR on the current cover, the feature husky next issue and a big KX a while ago, are we stuck in the mud?
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Why not leave it at pre 85 and up it to pre 90 in say...2015. Then, you know what's going to happen don't you? At the very next event some punter will turn up with a 92 model and expect to get a ride because "it's only a couple of years out and the events are non competitive anyway, so what's the problem"?.....................
The old cutoff date hamster wheel just keeps on spinning and it just won't stop ::)
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A few more responses ....
Nathan
100% correct its about people and the experience.
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Victoria's vintage rego rules I believe are currently at 25 years old which make 88 models eligible, correct me if I'm wrong but they are changing the rules to 30 years old, and are adding a year onto 25 years old requirement each year effectively freezing the eligibility until 2019? It wouldn't be a bad mechanism to adopt? No opinions, just a mechanism based in law.
Works for me.
I will still ride the same bikes anyway and we can have a couple of new guys on their 1987 TT350 and 1986 TS250X join us.
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If Vinduro states pre 85, except it and buy a model bike to suit, end of story, I have a perfect healthy Kawasaki KDX 250 1984 model on ebay going cheap, which would be one of the best rides you would ever have, but no these people are not contented with that, they have too buck the system to get there own way, got to have more travel and water cool. >:(
See this is the attitude that gets nobody anywhere my view point is i just will not come to an event with an attitude like this anymore leave the old boys with there stuff over there in the corner and i will find something else to do with my bike its getting red plated and i can ride that 90 days a year for 90 dollars anywhere in the state on any road fire trail whatever
Thats enough from me i just think this whole pre 1985 is getting to clicky
Bruce
How is it getting to clicky ??? because your current bike doesn't fit in ?? its like those classes for over 60 yr olds , i mean how clicky is that FFS why cant us 50 odd yr old blokes enter that class :'( i mean shit we have got too arms and too legs like them ::) its just not on .
I was going to join the local classic Holden owners club and take my MK 1 Ford escort to their rallies , turns out for some obscure reason my cars not elidgible :o :o Clicky bastards :)
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Why not leave it at pre 85 and up it to pre 90 in say...2015. Then, you know what's going to happen don't you? At the very next event some punter will turn up with a 92 model and expect to get a ride because "it's only a couple of years out and the events are non competitive anyway, so what's the problem"?.....................
The old cutoff date hamster wheel just keeps on spinning and it just won't stop :
Exactly ::) regardless of what the cut off is theres always going to be someone with their own agenda who wants to fork the system .
Its always the same old reasons , but its a flow on model, its not a competitive event, i help make up the numbers , its what i rode when i was young, i dont fit in at modern events ( this ones easy , you dont fit in here either mate )
Sure this is a discussion but whatever the outcome you will always have that small percentage who want to fork with it . I dont think its really about the bikes or the vinduro scene , its probably what they do in all facets of life . Try to buck the system whatever it may be , its how some people get their jollys ???
This must have been said tens of thousands of times " Buy a bike to fit the event , dont try to change the event to suit your bike " alternativley run your own event with a class to suit your personal bike make , model , year , capacity , colour and serial number ;D But thats not what its about though is it ;)
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Nathan is right. It is about the people.
Most of us come from the time when dirt bikes were a big thing.
There was a lot of variety and we all developed our own tastes.
Vinduro is about getting US all together to ride the old bikes we love.
I don't want to ride a Husky I want to ride my ITs.
The guy with the TT350 is just a guy like us but he loves his TT350.
Changing the rules to be more inclusive is always better than changing them to exclude the guys who love our events.
The rules need to reflect what guys like us want to ride.
If that means pre-85 then fine but if it means pre-87 or pre-90 then why not.
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Oh Dear!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-\
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See this is the attitude that gets nobody anywhere my view point is i just will not come to an event with an attitude like this anymore leave the old boys with there stuff over there in the corner and i will find something else to do with my bike its getting red plated and i can ride that 90 days a year for 90 dollars anywhere in the state on any road fire trail whatever
Thats enough from me i just think this whole pre 1985 is getting to clicky
Bruce
How is it getting to clicky ??? because your current bike doesn't fit in ?? its like those classes for over 60 yr olds , i mean how clicky is that FFS why cant us 50 odd yr old blokes enter that class :'( i mean shit we have got too arms and too legs like them ::) its just not on .
I was going to join the local classic Holden owners club and take my MK 1 Ford escort to their rallies , turns out for some obscure reason my cars not elidgible :o :o Clicky bastards :)
Spot on there Bill :)
Cheers Mick.
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Why not leave it at pre 85 and up it to pre 90 in say...2015. Then, you know what's going to happen don't you? At the very next event some punter will turn up with a 92 model and expect to get a ride because "it's only a couple of years out and the events are non competitive anyway, so what's the problem"?.....................
The old cutoff date hamster wheel just keeps on spinning and it just won't stop ::)
Exactly!! Regardless of where a line is drawn human nature says that some will always try to argue the line, moving the goal posts will not solve the argument for eternity, it will just change the tone of the argument...... I find it so odd that folks can't just accept something for what it is, do you think it's unfair that you can't park in handicapped spaces?? Are you upset that you'll never get maternity leave?? Why can't you get a return servicemans pension just cause you didn't serve?? Pfft!!!!! Seriously guys just accept and enjoy something for what it is, if you can't do that then find something else to do that you might enjoy more.
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Why not leave it at pre 85 and up it to pre 90 in say...2015. Then, you know what's going to happen don't you? At the very next event some punter will turn up with a 92 model and expect to get a ride because "it's only a couple of years out and the events are non competitive anyway, so what's the problem"?.....................
Time for serious talk now. It is very much a problem if anyone rides a bike that is newer than pre-90.
Harrow and other events would not happen if they were not run under Motorcycling Australia (MA). Because MA provides the insurance.
Without insurance there is no event. MA is able to negotiate affordable rates overseas for all Motorcycle events held under them.
The MA rule book is the Manual of Motorcycle Sport (MoMS). It defines that a Historic Dirt Motorcycle is pre-90.
If we have bikes in our events that are newer than what is defined in MoMS then it is not a historic event.
Therefore we have to run under modern Enduro rules if we wish to run under MA. Very few if any of our bikes would pass the noise restriction let alone the other rules.
This is why Vinduro was pre-85. Because Historic Dirt Bikes were pre-85. Now they are pre-90.
It is very important from an insurance and legal perspective that if any of us see a bike newer than pre-90 in our events that we report it to the organisers.
If one of these bikes is involved in a serious accident then that could end Vinduro for good.
The other important issue that effects cuttoff dates is also a legal issue.
Vinduro is moving towards every bike requiring some form of registration. Next year's Harrow will require it apparently.
We do not have Vinduro specific rules in the MoMS. So what happens in court if there is a serious accident involving a member in the event and someone not in the event.
It may be a big issue if our 'Historic' cut-off date is newer than Victoria's Vintage Rego rules allow?
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I'm sorry I missed the constructive / compelling argument for pre85 in the last few posts.
Sounds like a lot of battle weary scared vmxers to me.
I note that there were no eligibility issues at Connondale for the first competitive vintage enduro event, no issues enduro riders just entered in the appropriate class. The organisers gave some thought to to the classes and didn't blindly follow what was done in VMX. Smart people, and by the way I choose to ride my 84 instead of my 87 in that event, but its not about me.
VERi or any other club has the right to nominate what sort of bikes are used at their vintage events, but that doesn't mean that Vinduro is pre85, only that the club is limiting bikes to a particular era.
Some of the arguments are ridiculous
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If you get great heaps of riders turn up on pre 85 bikes then you can afford to turn away people on 86/87/88/89/90/2013 model bikes.
If you only get a few pre 85's turning up then what's the problem with people on moderns SUBSIDIZING our interests.
Seems crazy to turn them away. :o
If their entry fees keep my interests going then good on them and the more the merrier.
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That's fine with Cookardinia if that's the way it is to be run. This wasn't the case with the first Cookardinia. If you thought your bike might be 1/85 build then you had to ask the organisers if this would be accepted as a follow on model.
But where do you stop. If an 88 TT350 is ok last year, what will be ok this year, mid 95?
I think what is great about a cutoff is that it makes the paddock seem like a trip back in time to an obviously arbitrary date (pre85) in this case. Everything you look at was made before this cutoff date, not just most things.
Sure as a basis we followed the pre 85 format for the first two events but the number of entrants has not increased as I would have liked. For whatever reasons people are not coming so by expanding the parameters this will encourage people to attend. There will be a few changes to the format this year.
By drawing a hard line in the sand and saying Pre-90 this includes all the follow on models up to Dec 89. By 89/90 alot of bikes came in for majors changes like the KDX, DR's in preparation for the 1990's. It should be clear just from looking that these bikes would not be eligible.
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[quote
Some of the arguments are ridiculous
[/quote]
Care to elaborate :)
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The issue for me is not where the line is (although I would advocate for pre-90, or drum-brake rear as a compromise).
The issue is how we deal with the bikes - and their owners - who are close to the line.
As I said earlier, and 3858 tried to quantify, the current approach of turning a blind eye has actually worked very well. The proposed changes seem to be ideologically driven, at the expense of pragmatism.
I note the deafening silence in response to my point about whether strict enforcement would be a positive in the longer term.
It makes no sense to me that a 1984 CR250 is welcomed with open arms, while a stock 1986 IT200 is (about to be) rejected. Especially when an IT200L/N/S with an '84 CR250 front end fitted is legal... Way too much focus on bikes, when you get into that sort of discussion.
More importantly:
It makes no sense to me to turn away people with old bikes that fit the general criteria.
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See this is the attitude that gets nobody anywhere my view point is i just will not come to an event with an attitude like this anymore leave the old boys with there stuff over there in the corner and i will find something else to do with my bike its getting red plated and i can ride that 90 days a year for 90 dollars anywhere in the state on any road fire trail whatever
Thats enough from me i just think this whole pre 1985 is getting to clicky
Bruce
How is it getting to clicky ??? because your current bike doesn't fit in ?? its like those classes for over 60 yr olds , i mean how clicky is that FFS why cant us 50 odd yr old blokes enter that class :'( i mean shit we have got too arms and too legs like them ::) its just not on .
I was going to join the local classic Holden owners club and take my MK 1 Ford escort to their rallies , turns out for some obscure reason my cars not elidgible :o :o Clicky bastards :)
Spot on there Bill :)
Cheers Mick.
And exactely why you will never see me at a vinduro simple really :) Bruce
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Nothing like eligibility to get a thread racing on here. Gee I was only wondering the other day if we should make exceptions to Pre 78 rules to allow A4 Kawa and some Bullies in.
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VERI RULES pre 85, Thats there rules, like it or not, you except it, then you buy a bike that suits the era, its pretty simple. If your bike does not suit the cut off date then sell it and buy a bike that does. Its pretty Simple. its not rocket science go and enjoy the ride.
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Brucey don't let this exclude you from having fun, the majority of people don't care what age your vintage bike is.
TM Bill - not all of your argument was ridiculous, just most of it - 50 yr olds wanting to compete in a 60 yr olds class seriously? along with parking in handicapped zones, you blokes crack me up. :)
Still no reasons why vintage enduro should be pre85? No logic, just the way its always been, its my bat and ball....... anything.......There's a book called Who stole my cheese, it would be a good read for people defending the faith. I spoil it for you sometimes cheese gets shifted but it still cheese.
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One thing too about numbers at an event. I know it is speculation, but what if a "bring what you like as long as it is close to the rules", actually causes a drop off in the numbers because the existing rule abiding entrants don't want to be associated with a loose interpretation of the rules. I have seen it happen with other clubs.
In Victoria the Vintage Motorcycle club was a pre42 club. Due to pressures from members to allow later bikes, first as support but then just generally accepted, the cutoff wasn't enforced. Numbers actually dropped. The Antique club was started with a more extreme cutoff of Pre30 with no exceptions and it is going great.
Cheers, Grahame
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And exactely why you will never see me at a vinduro simple really :) Bruce
No need to avoid Vinduro Bruce. All friendly there. The thing to avoid is OZVMX eligibility discussion.
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.. , while a stock 1986 IT200 is (about to be) rejected. ...
Why is that. Yamaha considers all IT200s to be the 43G model.
The 1986 was just a late build variant using disk brake parts that were available in some markets on the 1984 YZ125 and YZ250.
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Whether it is VMX, Trial, vintage enduro, classic road racing, rules have all been discussed, and you will find that people will always buck the system to suit themselves.
I personally don`t care either way, I will work within the rules, if its going to shut people up, what would be a happy cut off date that will suit all and never to be changed.
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And remember at all times "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!" J
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For all the people who are not happy how many of you are paid up members of VERi right now?
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Also as we have seen on this forum before (2013 post classic nationals), just because someone makes a big fuss does not necessarily mean they will be an entrant even if they get their own way.
Cheers, Grahame
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It's a question of what the rules are. Tell me where it says Vinduro is pre85 only? ( differentiate between rules and a particular set of club rules)
Should a few people determine what the rules are over say the Victorian govt? Should the rules be based on someone's idea of what 'vintage' means?
Perhaps more people would join VERi if things were different?
This discussion is hurting my brain.
Ne plus ultra
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For all the people who are not happy how many of you are paid up members of VERi right now?
I am a paid member, and im happy with what is on offer:0
I personally don't give a shit if it's pre 90 or pre 85! i just want to go for a ride!
But, I understand the reasoning behind keeping it to Pre 85.
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.. , while a stock 1986 IT200 is (about to be) rejected. ...
Why is that. Yamaha considers all IT200s to be the 43G model.
The 1986 was just a late build variant using disk brake parts that were available in some markets on the 1984 YZ125 and YZ250.
Because of the front disc, which is not a pre-85 carry-over part.
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For all the people who are not happy how many of you are paid up members of VERi right now?
I'm not unhappy, I just think that taking a hard line on eligibility is going to be counter productive.
I'm already a member of two 'old dirt bike' clubs and one modern club.
My enthusiasm for supporting VERi by joining, is significantly diminished by what appears to be a desire to shoot themselves in the foot...
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One thing too about numbers at an event. I know it is speculation, but what if a "bring what you like as long as it is close to the rules", actually causes a drop off in the numbers because the existing rule abiding entrants don't want to be associated with a loose interpretation of the rules. I have seen it happen with other clubs.
In Victoria the Vintage Motorcycle club was a pre42 club. Due to pressures from members to allow later bikes, first as support but then just generally accepted, the cutoff wasn't enforced. Numbers actually dropped. The Antique club was started with a more extreme cutoff of Pre30 with no exceptions and it is going great.
Cheers, Grahame
Fair point. In this case, though, our baseline is allowing small number of not-quite-eligible bikes to participate (and has been the case since the very first Aussie Vinduro - I have literally never been to a Vinduro where there weren't too-new bikes participating).
If the VMCC exmaple holds true, then we'd expect a rise in entrants once the post-84 bikes are excluded.
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So we have 2 VERi members myself and Nada at this point we were asked to put a line in the sand pre85 is the line in the sand I'm sorry that is doesn't suit some but thats what the VERi club is for Pre 85 Enduro bikes the three or four of you that want pre 90 are welcome to start your own club with your own rules to be administered as you see fit. You are all articulate and I am sure that you are more than capable of getting a club up and running.
Steve Baker
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So we have 2 VERi members myself and Nada at this point we were asked to put a line in the sand pre85 is the line in the sand I'm sorry that is doesn't suit some but thats what the VERi club is for Pre 85 Enduro bikes the three or four of you that want pre 90 are welcome to start your own club with your own rules to be administered as you see fit. You are all articulate and I am sure that you are more than capable of getting a club up and running.
Steve Baker
And that's the way it should be make it Pre 85 Enduro bikes with a Factory Compliance plate
on it and be Road legal only No converted Motor X Bikes.
They should also only be made to use trials Universal or dot Tyres in Endoro events.
Classic Sramble have there rules. as do Classic Road Race and Vintage Trials.
Nathan you have been pushing your Pre 90 thought for 4 years on Every Motor Cycle
Forum in Australia what part of Pre 85 Enduro don't you get..
The Stig
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I spoke with drakeford, my membership will sent this week.
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I had a ball on as "converted MX bike" this year that was a one owner bike. In speaking to him he used to compete in many local club enduro's on it in the mid eighties..
I wonder what he would think about the nostalgic celebration of him riding these type of bikes back in the day known as Vinduro actually refusing him entry because his isn't eligible.
The Harrow event is so awesome and so are the organizers!! I repect VERI's decision on the event being Pre85 as it is theirs to make.
The bigger issue I have is the rego that will be needed for next year.
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So we have 2 VERi members myself and Nada at this point we were asked to put a line in the sand pre85 is the line in the sand I'm sorry that is doesn't suit some but thats what the VERi club is for Pre 85 Enduro bikes the three or four of you that want pre 90 are welcome to start your own club with your own rules to be administered as you see fit. You are all articulate and I am sure that you are more than capable of getting a club up and running.
Steve Baker
And that's the way it should be make it Pre 85 Enduro bikes with a Factory Compliance plate
on it and be Road legal only No converted Motor X Bikes.
They should also only be made to use trials Universal or dot Tyres in Endoro events.
Classic Sramble have there rules. as do Classic Road Race and Vintage Trials.
Nathan you have been pushing your Pre 90 thought for 4 years on Every Motor Cycle
Forum in Australia what part of Pre 85 Enduro don't you get..
HERE, HERE, This is the word of the lord.
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to be precise, enduro bike came from Motocross bikes in the beginning.
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Brucey don't let this exclude you from having fun, the majority of people don't care what age your vintage bike is.
Cool i have a 2006 YZ250F that old thing is 7 yrs old now , i will strap a headlight on and come to your next event :)
TM Bill - not all of your argument was ridiculous, just most of it - 50 yr olds wanting to compete in a 60 yr olds class seriously? along with parking in handicapped zones, you blokes crack me up. :)
No more ridiculous than wanting to ride a newer bike than what the event caters for ;)
Still no reasons why vintage enduro should be pre85? No logic, just the way its always been, its my bat and ball....... anything.......There's a book called Who stole my cheese, it would be a good read for people defending the faith. I spoil it for you sometimes cheese gets shifted but it still cheese.
Absolutley correct , but if event organisers choose a 1985 cut off why cant people respect that and buy an apropriate ride rather than try than say fork it they can change to suit me
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So we have 2 VERi members myself and Nada at this point we were asked to put a line in the sand pre85 is the line in the sand I'm sorry that is doesn't suit some but thats what the VERi club is for Pre 85 Enduro bikes the three or four of you that want pre 90 are welcome to start your own club with your own rules to be administered as you see fit. You are all articulate and I am sure that you are more than capable of getting a club up and running.
Steve Baker
And that's the way it should be make it Pre 85 Enduro bikes with a Factory Compliance plate
on it and be Road legal only No converted Motor X Bikes.
They should also only be made to use trials Universal or dot Tyres in Endoro events.
Classic Sramble have there rules. as do Classic Road Race and Vintage Trials.
Nathan you have been pushing your Pre 90 thought for 4 years on Every Motor Cycle
Forum in Australia what part of Pre 85 Enduro don't you get..
The Stig
Read again: This is not me pushing for pre-90 Vinduros, it's about the problems that a zero-tolerance approach to the pre-85 rule will bring.
We've all got our vision of exactly what the perfect Vinduro would be.
The real challenge for VERi is to find the vision that is acceptable to the greatest number of people, and is workable.
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I dont like to get invovle My two Bobs worth about the Pre 1985 Rule
Why dont Bloke Build Bike to the Rules ! ! ! ! (Pre 1985 )
Why do Bloke Want to Change the Rule to sute there Bike ! ! ! !(Pre 1990)
Why dont thay Join a Club that offers what you want .
if do not like what Veri offer then try Heaven or Vipe ,QVMX or MX90
Dennis
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So we have 2 VERi members myself and Nada at this point we were asked to put a line in the sand pre85 is the line in the sand I'm sorry that is doesn't suit some but thats what the VERi club is for Pre 85 Enduro bikes the three or four of you that want pre 90 are welcome to start your own club with your own rules to be administered as you see fit. You are all articulate and I am sure that you are more than capable of getting a club up and running.
Steve Baker
And that's the way it should be make it Pre 85 Enduro bikes with a Factory Compliance plate
on it and be Road legal only No converted Motor X Bikes.
They should also only be made to use trials Universal or dot Tyres in Endoro events.
Classic Sramble have there rules. as do Classic Road Race and Vintage Trials.
Nathan you have been pushing your Pre 90 thought for 4 years on Every Motor Cycle
Forum in Australia what part of Pre 85 Enduro don't you get..
The Stig
No MX bikes. Correct me if I am wrong. I recall seeing more CR, RM, YZ in enduros in the 70's than trail bikes
Trials tyres only. So you will volunteer to push all these bikes up the first greasy hill then.
Classic Scrambles have their rules. That they do, but they don't turn away IT Yamahas, XR Hondas, XC, WR Huskys, KDX, KLX Kawasakis, GS Maicos, PE Suzukis
By all means make it Pre 85 if you wish but the rest of your recommendation is ridiculous
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Why dont thay Join a Club that offers what you want .
if do not like what Veri offer then try Heaven or Vipe ,QVMX or MX90
Dennis
There is no club offering pre-90 Vinduros, and the entire Vinduro market isn't big enough to support two dedicated Vinduro clubs (so the old "go start your own club" line isn't reasonable).
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Because of the front disc, which is not a pre-85 carry-over part.
I have documentation that it is ok. Will show you when I see you next.
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Hey, just because Veri draws a line in the sand doesn't mean a promoting club will enforce it... no competition/ no finger pointing...
any club wants bikes on the track so if someone shows up on an old dunger with a shiny disc brake on the front, im not that fussed by it. just because he can stop a bit better doesn't worry me in the least.... ill have an excuse ;D
trials tyres :o im not buying another set of tyres.... these ones are over a year old now and just run in....
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There's a great website for Vinduro discussions like this ,that maybe a good place to insert this debat into ;)
http://www.endurobiketalk.com/forum/
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Seems a lot of guys enjoy the forum side of the sport to actually riding: I'm the other sort. And I will continue to ride my 79 yz400 at these events until I am told to get knicked because it makes a far better enduro bike than most enduro bikes. Don't get me wrong I have three ITs as well but a converted mxer is a better ride hence why the entry lists in the late 70s and 80s were littered with them. And why I race offroad now on a yz450 not my Wr.
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So we have 2 VERi members myself and Nada at this point we were asked to put a line in the sand pre85 is the line in the sand I'm sorry that is doesn't suit some but thats what the VERi club is for Pre 85 Enduro bikes the three or four of you that want pre 90 are welcome to start your own club with your own rules to be administered as you see fit. You are all articulate and I am sure that you are more than capable of getting a club up and running.
Steve Baker
I fully agree with you Steve, I became a VERi member pretty much as soon as I heard about it, thinking I was in fast then only to find out I was member #39 :o now it seems there is heaps more than that, I guess the Vinduro Pre 85 is something most are keen for.
I love Pre 85 Vinduro, but will also be happy to buy a bike to suit Pre 90, Pre 95 etc events just as soon as these Pre what ever guys get there own club-events happening ;D
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There's a great website for Vinduro discussions like this ,that maybe a good place to insert this debat into ;)
http://www.endurobiketalk.com/forum/
You get banned for having an opinion on that forum. Trust me it's happened to myself and others several times. In the end I resigned on stress leave. Spent my time more constructively with my mates Paul, Linda and Wings and wrote a great song about it called "Banned On the Forum". ;D
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There's a great website for Vinduro discussions like this ,that maybe a good place to insert this debat into ;)
http://www.endurobiketalk.com/forum/
You get banned for having an opinion on that forum. Trust me it's happened to myself and others several times. In the end I resigned on stress leave. Spent my time more constructively with my mates Paul, Linda and Wings and wrote a great song about it called "Banned On the Forum". ;D
Your nose must be 4" long by now Maicoman ..... By the way how many Victorian Vinduro's have you travelled to ?? try supporting those that support you.......
Here is a poll from way back in 2010 be interesting to do another one I reckon.
http://endurobiketalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=2824.0
Cheers Mick.
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I dunno Mick - your poll was clearly designed to obtain a particular outcome.
But I'll repeat: My main concern is that VERi is going to throw away a lot of what makes Vinduros good, if they introduce VMX style officialdom.
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I dunno Mick - your poll was clearly designed to obtain a particular outcome.
But I'll repeat: My main concern is that VERi is going to throw away a lot of what makes Vinduros good, if they introduce VMX style officialdom.
O I don't think it was Nathan, It covered Pre 85 Vinduro, Pre 85 & follow on's and Pre 90, clearly at the time Pre 85 & Pre 85 & follow on's won the day.
Like I said I would be happy to see another one posted to get the current vibe.
Cheers Mick.
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Eh, wrong poll, sorry Mick.
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Guys the one thing that I learnt from the 2013 Post Classic MX Titles this years is that Online Forums are absolutely and positively the worst possible place to get anything like a real representation of what is good, bad, needed or required in a meeting, series, event or club.
I have nothing to do with VERi don't even know who is running it, but they have got off there arses and put their time and effort into organising Vinduros as best they can using I image a vast amount of experience.
Will it be perfect? Probably not
Will it satisfy every single rider with an old bike? Probably not
Will it be successful? I hope so
Will the 'rules' given that it is not a competition evolve and change? almost certainly
Has the Vinduro sport/pass time reached the point where a little firming up of gudelines is required? Certainly has
Can we wait around until every detail is absolutely positively perfect in every way for every rider at every event? Never going to happen
Will there be mistakes made? Absolutely
So get involved in helping to run them instead of throwing darts SHEESH
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Must be me. ??? ???
We are talking Vinduro's here in this post originated by Nathan aren't we?
Not mx or something else.
You know the NON competitive social trail ride that passes for a proper enduro but is nothing like a real one.
The event that was invented to give old enduro riders something to do to reinforce their memories.
Cheers
Mike
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Guys the one thing that I learnt from the 2013 Post Classic MX Titles this years is that Online Forums are absolutely and positively the worst possible place to get anything like a real representation of what is good, bad, needed or required in a meeting, series, event or club.
I have nothing to do with VERi don't even know who is running it, but they have got off there arses and put their time and effort into organising Vinduros as best they can using I image a vast amount of experience.
Will it be perfect? Probably not
Will it satisfy every single rider with an old bike? Probably not
Will it be successful? I hope so
Will the 'rules' given that it is not a competition evolve and change? almost certainly
Has the Vinduro sport/pass time reached the point where a little firming up of gudelines is required? Certainly has
Can we wait around until every detail is absolutely positively perfect in every way for every rider at every event? Never going to happen
Will there be mistakes made? Absolutely
So get involved in helping to run them instead of throwing darts SHEESH
Now that is a wise Man, I would honor him to be in my club and Team any day.( Please embrace what we have, it will only get better.)
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Must be me. ??? ???
We are talking Vinduro's here in this post originated by Nathan aren't we?
Not mx or something else.
You know the NON competitive social trail ride that passes for a proper enduro but is nothing like a real one.
The event that was invented to give old enduro riders something to do to reinforce their memories.
Cheers
Mike
So where do you draw the line then Mike ? im 50 something and have done / do ride enduros and trail rides ,so does that make me an old enduro rider ? . And can I ride my 2006 YZ250F ( fitted with a headlamp ) at these events as its purely social ??? My 2006 YZ is water cooled , has disc brakes front and rear, adjustable rear shock and upside down forks , just like most 1989 models so it must be a flow on model ;)
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There's a great website for Vinduro discussions like this ,that maybe a good place to insert this debat into ;)
http://www.endurobiketalk.com/forum/
You get banned for having an opinion on that forum. Trust me it's happened to myself and others several times. In the end I resigned on stress leave. Spent my time more constructively with my mates Paul, Linda and Wings and wrote a great song about it called "Banned On the Forum". ;D
Your nose must be 4" long by now Maicoman ..... By the way how many Victorian Vinduro's have you travelled to ?? try supporting those that support you.......
Here is a poll from way back in 2010 be interesting to do another one I reckon.
http://endurobiketalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=2824.0
Cheers Mick.
What's the point of a link if you can't log in?
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So where do you draw the line then Mike ? im 50 something and have done / do ride enduros and trail rides ,so does that make me an old enduro rider ? . And can I ride my 2006 YZ250F ( fitted with a headlamp ) at these events as its purely social ??? My 2006 YZ is water cooled , has disc brakes front and rear, adjustable rear shock and upside down forks , just like most 1989 models so it must be a flow on model ;)
I covered the point where we MUST draw the line in an earlier posting.
If the bike is newer than pre-90 then it MUST be excluded because our events are run as MA Historic events
and our bikes would not comply with the modern Enduro rules in the MoMS.
With this in mind, the discussion SHOULD be;
what the cut-off date should be so that the events include as many models that are in the spirit of Vinduro
and also whether there should be specific models included or excluded.
ie. there is no reason why the rules cannot be pre-85 and specifically mention that even though the TT350 is outside this cut-off it is allowed because it is just as much in the spirit of what a Vinduro bike is as a IT200 or XR350.
Also there is no reason why the rules cannot be pre-88 and specifically exclude models because they are not in the spirit of Vinduro.
And as Nathan has suggested there is no reason why the rules cannot specifically exclude models because they have a technology such as rear disk brake.
And there is no reason why the rules cannot specifically allow technology to be fitted to these bikes that may not have been available in the Era such as Bark Busters if that is what is wanted by some entrants.
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Forums are good for debating issues, they can bring up some points that might not otherwise have been thought of.
Victorian Vinduro’s have always been advertised as Pre 85 from day one and there has always been debate about what is ‘spirit of the era’ but I take offence at being called cliquey because pre 85 happened to have been chosen over 5 years ago.
How hard will VERi come down on some post 85 models, well that remains to be seen.
VERi is only a few months old and we are trying to formulate a positive way for the future, we may or may not get things right all the time but I assure you we have the best intentions for the future of old Enduro / Trail bikes and there riders at heart.
Our new website is under construction and we have intentions of listing eligible models so as to clarify eligibility better. This will let people know where they stand and hopefully take away the current confusion.
We will be willing to listen to constructive criticism but not abuse.
Despite having approx 200 riders at Harrow only ¼ of them were bona fide members with the rest receiving honorary membership for the day.
We are cool with this as we are trying to grow the sport without ripping everyone a new one but in time it will be necessary to be a full member like every other club usually insists on.
Will we be accused of being hard to get on with when we insist on membership? Time will tell.
If you would like to support VERi you will find membership forms here on our old website that is still running for the moment…
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B834Ap3O8vMdcDN0REl2UjBreGc/edit?usp=sharing&pli=1
Geoff Morris
VERi Treasurer.
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Trials tyres only. So you will volunteer to push all these bikes up the first greasy hill then.
By all means make it Pre 85 if you wish but the rest of your recommendation is ridiculous
[/quote]
2 riders in our team had Dot tyre's on and had no trouble getting Up or Down any of the
Hills at Harrow.
Its the damage done to the Course that is the problem ...
Into and out of Corners it was huge....
The Stig
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It seems quite easy to me. The line needs to be drawn at 12/89 models for legal/insurance reasons as Mark Boddy has said previously. Why exclude people who want to have a go but have a post '85 bike?
Ads
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Bill, it's easy: 1/90 or newer is out, thanks to MA rules.
There's also lots of "soft enforcement" options for 85~89 models, rather than simply saying "go home".
The carry-over rule is the most obvious.
Others include things like "you can ride, no problem, but you won't get a medal" or "that bike uses technology that was available in 1984 so it's OK", or simply to continue to turn a blind eye.
The directly competitive nature of MX stops these being fair options for VMX, but there's no problem in a competitive "against the clock" event like an Enduro, so theres certainly no problem for a non-competitive trailride.
What does VERi hope will be gained by adopting a VMX style eligibility criteria?
------
It's also worth pointing out that there were several moderns ripping around at Harrow. Their riders were wearing fluro vests, of course, but it proves that ineligible bikes don't ruin the event...
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It's also worth pointing out that there were several moderns ripping around at Harrow. Their riders were wearing fluro vests, of course, but it proves that ineligible bikes don't ruin the event...
These guys are called sweep ::) riders
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It's a question of what the rules are. Tell me where it says Vinduro is pre85 only? ( differentiate between rules and a particular set of club rules)
Should a few people determine what the rules are over say the Victorian govt? Should the rules be based on someone's idea of what 'vintage' means?
Perhaps more people would join VERi if things were different?
This discussion is hurting my brain.
Ne plus ultra
I'm just catching on this discussion after a weekend having fun at the Conondale Classic...
But the one thing that hits me is that it's all a 'storm in a teacup'...
If you want to organise an event, and you believe it should be Pre 85, great! Do it!
If you want to organise an event, and you believe it should be Pre 90, great! Do it!
If you want to organise an event, and you believe it should be competitive, great! Do it!
If you want to organise an event, and you believe it should be non-competitive, great! Do it!
If you want to organise an event, and you believe the cut off dates are sacrosanct, great! Do it!
If you want to organise an event, and you believe the cut off dates are flexible, great! Do it!
Basically, if you're prepared to get off your bum and do all that work, YOU get to decide what your rules are. Unless it's a State ot National Title (competitive), you can run whatever rules you want.
You'll soon find out how popular it is - and you get to decide whether it's a success or not.. If you expect 25 entries and get 30, it's a success. If you expect 200 and get 150, it's not..
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It's also worth pointing out that there were several moderns ripping around at Harrow. Their riders were wearing fluro vests, of course, but it proves that ineligible bikes don't ruin the event...
These guys are called sweep ::) riders
What!? Really?!
::)
The point was that it makes no difference to me what other people ride. The Sweeps' 201x KTMs were just as irrelevant to me and my enjoyment of the event as the 1985 KTMs, the TS250Xes with centre exhaust ports, XRs with 86+ cartridge forks, converted MXers, PEs, KDXes, Hodakas, and Bultacos that were also there.
Actually, that's not true - those extra smiling faces were a big part of why the event is so good.
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Guys the one thing that I learnt from the 2013 Post Classic MX Titles this years is that Online Forums are absolutely and positively the worst possible place to get anything like a real representation of what is good, bad, needed or required in a meeting, series, event or club.
I have nothing to do with VERi don't even know who is running it, but they have got off there arses and put their time and effort into organising Vinduros as best they can using I image a vast amount of experience.
Will it be perfect? Probably not
Will it satisfy every single rider with an old bike? Probably not
Will it be successful? I hope so
Will the 'rules' given that it is not a competition evolve and change? almost certainly
Has the Vinduro sport/pass time reached the point where a little firming up of gudelines is required? Certainly has
Can we wait around until every detail is absolutely positively perfect in every way for every rider at every event? Never going to happen
Will there be mistakes made? Absolutely
So get involved in helping to run them instead of throwing darts SHEESH
Now that is a wise Man, I would honor him to be in my club and Team any day.( Please embrace what we have, it will only get better.)
But he rides Montessas
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I'm just catching on this discussion after a weekend having fun at the Conondale Classic...
But the one thing that hits me is that it's all a 'storm in a teacup'...
If you want to organise an event, and you believe it should be Pre 85, great! Do it!
If you want to organise an event, and you believe it should be Pre 90, great! Do it!
If you want to organise an event, and you believe it should be competitive, great! Do it!
If you want to organise an event, and you believe it should be non-competitive, great! Do it!
If you want to organise an event, and you believe the cut off dates are sacrosanct, great! Do it!
If you want to organise an event, and you believe the cut off dates are flexible, great! Do it!
Basically, if you're prepared to get off your bum and do all that work, YOU get to decide what your rules are. Unless it's a State ot National Title (competitive), you can run whatever rules you want.
You'll soon find out how popular it is - and you get to decide whether it's a success or not.. If you expect 25 entries and get 30, it's a success. If you expect 200 and get 150, it's not..
Hallelujah.......This eligibility stuff is tedious at best. Ever since pre 75 VMX was created in the late 80's there have been those who want to fudge the eligibility parameters. Every time it comes up on this forum the same old culprits sprout the same worn out old philosophy backing whatever cutoff date they worship. If it was made pre 95, some dickweed would straight away come on here and argue like all fluck for "common sense to prevail" and call for eligibility to change to pre 96...."for the good of the sport". There are some very dedicated people who've actually got off their collective arses to form an organisation to benefit the Vinduro cause. They've deemed the cutoff to be pre 85 after I'm sure a lot of discussion and consultation so if you're so steadfastly against that cutoff, organise your own vinduro with a pre 90 or whatever cutoff. If you do it as well as Shoey, Drakey and all of their dedicated colleagues you'll have done something positive for those with 86- 90 Vinduro bikes who've been disenfranchised by the VERi rules. If that's not in your bucket list, just cop the pre 85 cutoff sweet and enjoy it for what it is.
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Lots of strawman going on now... The main point is that strict enforcement of era-eligibility will do far more harm than good to a non-competitive, low stress sport.
Am I wrong?
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Must be me. ??? ???
We are talking Vinduro's here in this post originated by Nathan aren't we?
Not mx or something else.
You know the NON competitive social trail ride that passes for a proper enduro but is nothing like a real one.
The event that was invented to give old enduro riders something to do to reinforce their memories.
Cheers
Mike
So where do you draw the line then Mike ? im 50 something and have done / do ride enduros and trail rides ,so does that make me an old enduro rider ? . And can I ride my 2006 YZ250F ( fitted with a headlamp ) at these events as its purely social ??? My 2006 YZ is water cooled , has disc brakes front and rear, adjustable rear shock and upside down forks , just like most 1989 models so it must be a flow on model ;)
I am now over 60 and an old enduro rider Bill.
Seriously, you race and know the difference between race rules and social outing rules.
Vinduro's are not a race but a friendly social outing.
Don't we have enough bloo*y rules in our lives without Fu*king up the one thing that we all enjoy , our bike riding.
At Vinduro's some people ride fast , some slow and some don't even ride at all.
Your 2006 yz won't affect my enjoyment at all but if you want to pay to ride an easy track then I for one welcome you.
At the last vinduro I went to some sweep riders were [ shock/horror] riding 2013 bikes and on the same track too.
One of the old paying enduro [65ish] riders was riding a brand new KTM { very quickly I might add ] as well as his 83 KDX.
Funny thing was that no paying riders gave a rats.
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Lots of strawman going on now... The main point is that strict enforcement of era-eligibility will do far more harm than good to a non-competitive, low stress sport.
Am I wrong?
As politely as i can put it Nathan, YES!. The vast majority (at the moment) of vinduro riders are aged 35-65, most of these people grew up in a time when black was black, white was white and rules were rules, they seem to have little trouble adhering to whatever format and guidelines are laid down. I don't hear many of the over 35's having much of an issue with the pre 85 format, or if they do they choose to accept it for what it is. Ultimately participants will always vote with their feet, and at the moment we seem to have no trouble at all getting plentiful entries to VERi events. As for what constitutes a "Vinduro", that is up to the organiser of that particular Vinduro to determine, as for what constitutes a "VERi Vinduro" for the foreseeable future, it's an event for pre 85 bikes ;).
Cheers, Brendan
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Its not hard to get an eligible bike I thought you could still rec reg and register pre 90 bikes any way so why not ride them in modern events?
If you started pre 90 events you will get blokes wanting to ride say a 92 wr500 you can't win I just hate that I have the bikes that are eligible but I don't have the time to ride them.
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Lots of strawman going on now... The main point is that strict enforcement of era-eligibility will do far more harm than good to a non-competitive, low stress sport.
Am I wrong?
As politely as i can put it Nathan, YES!. The vast majority (at the moment) of vinduro riders are aged 35-65, most of these people grew up in a time when black was black, white was white and rules were rules, they seem to have little trouble adhering to whatever format and guidelines are laid down. I don't hear many of the over 35's having much of an issue with the pre 85 format, or if they do they choose to accept it for what it is. Ultimately participants will always vote with their feet, and at the moment we seem to have no trouble at all getting plentiful entries to VERi events. As for what constitutes a "Vinduro", that is up to the organiser of that particular Vinduro to determine, as for what constitutes a "VERi Vinduro" for the foreseeable future, it's an event for pre 85 bikes ;).
Cheers, Brendan
Sorry, I missed the bit where you explained how it would do more good than harm?
;)
Were there ten (or more) people who stayed away from Harrow because they knew there would be some of those awful 1985 model bikes there?
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Here is the point i just do not get
If i swapped my club membership from cimaa to join up Veri legally where do Veri stand ? my 1986/87 model is legally red plated as per the 25 year rule in victoria legally registered to ride on the road yet i could not ride it at a MAV sanctioned and insured event ? what happens next year 87/88 models ?
PS yes i am in Vic
Dont worry im not going to actually to turn up to an event or cause trouble i would just like to know ?
Bruce
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Here is the point i just do not get
If i swapped my club membership from cimaa to join up Veri legally where do Veri stand ? my 1986/87 model is legally red plated as per the 25 year rule in victoria legally registered to ride on the road yet i could not ride it at a MAV sanctioned and insured event ? what happens next year 87/88 models ?
PS yes i am in Vic
Dont worry im not going to actually to turn up to an event or cause trouble i would just like to know ?
Bruce
Great question, direct it to [email protected] and it will be answered promptly, politely and concisely.
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I have no intention of telling VERi how they should run their events, this is just my opinion.
As someone who has spent a fare bit of time thinking about this and classes to have in a Vinduro competition.
Pre85 does not work. There is no relationship with that year and the development of Enduro bikes at the time. How can it be that you are able to ride a 84 CR250 but not a 86 WR Husky. The way I looked at it if we went for Pre90 there would not be a need for follow ons. When I put this on another forum someone had a go at me saying "What next Pre2000" I then noticed the bikes he owned was a 85 IT250 and an 86 IT200.
I also agree with Bill. If the cut of date is 84 get a Pre85 bike or don't turn up. I read someone complaining about the Pre 90 bikes at CD and how the organises should stop them. No, people should not bring them in the first place.
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Guys the one thing that I learnt from the 2013 Post Classic MX Titles this years is that Online Forums are absolutely and positively the worst possible place to get anything like a real representation of what is good, bad, needed or required in a meeting, series, event or club.
I have nothing to do with VERi don't even know who is running it, but they have got off there arses and put their time and effort into organising Vinduros as best they can using I image a vast amount of experience.
Will it be perfect? Probably not
Will it satisfy every single rider with an old bike? Probably not
Will it be successful? I hope so
Will the 'rules' given that it is not a competition evolve and change? almost certainly
Has the Vinduro sport/pass time reached the point where a little firming up of gudelines is required? Certainly has
Can we wait around until every detail is absolutely positively perfect in every way for every rider at every event? Never going to happen
Will there be mistakes made? Absolutely
So get involved in helping to run them instead of throwing darts SHEESH
Brilliant!
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Brilliant i agree.
Wise words from a very good operator
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I've been watching/reading this and what Montynut said above is on the money. Just remember to turn up, help if you can, help promote the events and have fun....because at the end of the day that's what it is all about. Do that and it will work.
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Has the Vinduro sport/pass time reached the point where a little firming up of gudelines is required? Certainly has
I'd promised I was going to let this thread go, but seeing as the above post keeps being quoted, I've got to ask why "firming up the guidelines is required"?
I rode at the very first Vinduro, and the very last one (so far!), and have ridden more than most in between - and I've seen nothing that indicates this. Their rapid growth in that time actually suggests the opposite.
Will there be mistakes made? Absolutely
Right. To err is human, and all that - couldn't agree more. Anybody who's spent time running a club who says they've never made a mistake is a liar or fool (probably both).
But maybe the input to this thread is about trying to stop a mistake being made? To point out that an idea that seemed like a good one at a committee meeting, might bring problems in the real world?
Once you see the problem, is it more negative to say something so it can be fixed, or to say nothing?
;)
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On to page 10 now and still not one reason for excluding the TT350 from Vinduro.
There are guys like us who are saying they would like to bring the bikes they love that are just like ours to Vinduros and yet we are saying no.
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Nathan, it looks like that 89 KTM250 EXC that I bought off you is ineligible to be riden at a Vinduro down south.....can I have my money back?.... ;) ;D..lol....bloody crook.
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Some may have missed it but I have noticed in the name VERi Vintage Enduro Riders Inc there is no reference to Pre 85, so that tells me they have left the name open as in not directing it at anyone era, even the name Vinduro is not there.
So those that are worried about the Pre 85 only thing for now I suspect it will not be to long and you will get your Pre 90, Pre 95 as the years tick by.
I like the Pre 85 cut off and would not even like to see follow ons, but that is not going to happen there is now pretty much Pre 90's allowed at Pre 85 Vinduro's and some clubs already run Pre 90 Vintage Enduro events.
I will ride my Pre 85 bikes in the odd Pre 85 Vinduro and at current day events because I like to ride that era of bike.
I have ridden in many Vinduro's but ( because there is no racing in Vinduro at the moment, I quite like just taking photos now ) although if Pony Express style race events started in Vinduro Pre 85, the camera would be put to bed and the bike taken out of bed ;D :) ( thinking I might be waiting till the next lifetime before this happens :D :D ;D )
I guess we all just want something different from the vintage enduro seen, but for the time being there is a healthy lot of social events around to enjoy.
I would love to see Vinduro kick off in South Australia, Tassie, WA etc.
Cheers Mick.
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Lol Davey... I could use it as in the pre-90 class at the 24-hour next year.
:)
Although, I don't know if I should be more or less offended by being called a crook by a Queenslander? ;D
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EBT
Pre 85 and 'non-competitive' form part of the VERi constitution, and therefore would require a member vote ( not sure if its simple majority or other) to change it should they ever desire to do so.
:)
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I have ridden in many Vinduro's but ( because there is no racing in Vinduro at the moment, I quite like just taking photos now ) although if Pony Express style race events started in Vinduro Pre 85, the camera would be put to bed and the bike taken out of bed ;D :) ( thinking I might be waiting till the next lifetime before this happens :D :D ;D )
Mick,
The Conondale Vinduro will be on again next year - It was a fantastic event this year. And will only get better next year.
Sprint format - we got in 8 laps this year of a great track at Conondale.
Vinduro-Trail ride Saturday (non-competitive)
Vinduro Sprint Sunday (competitive)
If you're keen for a Competitive Vinduro (or even a competitive Vintage Enduro), you should try and get up here next year.
Tony
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there is no reason a competetive pony express could not be organized...the people interested just need to get a club to run it, find land that will suit, do all the relevent paper work, organize volenteers, be rule nazis at scrutineering blah blah blah
simple really
cheers
tony
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The vinduro class at the Bendigo natural terrain was fun.... but not as much fun as taking it up to a few hair gelled young muscle flexors on their latest 4 bangers with more after market bling than Kim Kardigan. Now that's fun. ;D :D
makes being over 50 and bald enjoyable....on a twin shocker
the Bendigo club has had a couple of land issues so will see if I can focus a few on a vinduro class at the next pony expresses.
if you get organised Mick and round a few punters up for the next event (sept 4th?), they will run a pre 85 class. you just need to turn up.
dates clashing and house sale / new build is going to stretch my time for bikes for a while :'( but we discussed at Harrow the Echuca round so will be focussing on getting that up to scratch.
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The vinduro class at the Bendigo natural terrain was fun.... but not as much fun as taking it up to a few hair gelled young muscle flexors on their latest 4 bangers with more after market bling than Kim Kardigan. Now that's fun. ;D :D
makes being over 50 and bald enjoyable....on a twin shocker
the Bendigo club has had a couple of land issues so will see if I can focus a few on a vinduro class at the next pony expresses.
if you get organised Mick and round a few punters up for the next event (sept 4th?), they will run a pre 85 class. you just need to turn up.
dates clashing and house sale / new build is going to stretch my time for bikes for a while :'( but we discussed at Harrow the Echuca round so will be focussing on getting that up to scratch.
It is great that the Bendigo Club will run a Pre 85 Vinduro class if enough turn up, but if they said there was going to be a Pre 85 class in there race day then people might just turn up knowing they would have a class for sure to ride in...if there is a %100 Pre 85 class I will turn up to ride, and hopefully others would also support the event....
Cheers Mick.
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I just sent my VERI membership orf...& am happy to comply either way !
At the end of the day rules will always be pushed or broken....So if someone were to show up on a non compliant ride or even a carry on model why not slap a fine on them & give it to the "Ambo`s" ;)
regards Glen....