OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => British (BSA, Greeves, Triumph etc) => Topic started by: firko on December 12, 2011, 10:33:32 pm
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Good stuff ...#82 & #4 ...alive and well... 8)
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Great info on all the models
That alloy tank on 31 is my pick of the pack think the TT tank is about to be cut up for the Zed project
Thanks
;D
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I like the DT-1 :)
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I like the black ESO :-*
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(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/me20129.jpg)
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Not Ugly betty, what was Al thinking....lol
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Great bit of kit Bill ! have you ridden her yet ? looks like it'll be a ton of fun ;)
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Is it in NZ yet, Bill? I feel a trip to Taupo coming on... 8)
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(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/me20127.jpg)
Yeah when is Black Hinemoa turning up in Torpo Bill. ;D Looks the Biz mate.
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Very pretty Bill, but I'd be pulling that godawful donkey out and fitting a trumpet in the hole ;D
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Can't be Hinemoa Marc, the bore is only 84mm ;)
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Firko you bastard, youve eally got me thinking now!! those bully's look so good, if i can't find a zundapp that would be the way I go. they look so right!!!
Barry
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Tossa, I had a complete rickman zundapp for sale 3 months ago, no takers, I can put you onto the fellow who has got it his name is brian Cox
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That alloy tank on 31 is my pick of the pack
That bike's owned by Klub Kevlar good 'ol boy Edgar Phipps. It's one of three he owns, the others are a pre unit Mk3 500 Triumph and a Triumph 650 unit Mk3a.
I like the black ESO
Another Klub Kevlar good 'ol boy.....Alan Jones infamous Black Betty unit ESO. Al's also got a MK4 Weslake/B44 and Ugly Betty, the little purple SL125 Honda powered Micro Metisse (formerly a Zundapp)
Yeah when is Black Hinemoa turning up in Torpo Bill.
That's one sweet little Metisse Bill, I look forward to seeing it.
Firko you bastard, youve eally got me thinking now!! those bully's look so good, if i can't find a zundapp that would be the way I go. they look so right!!!
Barry
Barry, I reckon the Zundapp's probably a lost cause...you'll be so much happier with something a tad bigger in the cradle. I had intended on fitting the Maico square barrel 250 to mine but it's just a smidgey too long and I don't want to have to modify the cases so in a drastic but fun change in direction I'm now fitting a Cooper (Moto Islo) 250 which I reckon would be the worlds only Cooper Metisse ::) Damn I love this shit ;D ;D
Incidentally those Bultaco Petite Metisses are a different frame to that of the Zundapp Micro Metisse although the Bully engine fits in both. The Rickman Montesa Dave talks of is a different frame again, a single downtube frame that suits sideport engines like VMX60's CZ or a well known VMX media mogul's proposed TM400 powered unit.
I like the DT-1
Jay I originally purchased my Zundapp Metisse frame to build a DT1 powered bike identical to the British Racing Green bike you're referring to but when I stuck the Maico engine in there for a bit of a beer fueled joke, the Dr Frankenstein gene in my DNA erupted and now this little bike is going to be a class legal but politically incorrect little Moto Islo Metisse fun bike that will also act as a metaphorically erect middle digit to the Metisse snobs. ;D
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HOW easily does the DT1 fit in the Zundapp 125 mettisse frame ?
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Can't be Hinemoa Marc, the bore is only 84mm ;)
You just need a bigger rod kit to go with the oversize mate ;D
Anyway looking forward to getting my twin together so Bill and I can have a session
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You and Bill and Your 'Twin' sounds like a threesome I don't want to see!!!! :o
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;D ;D ;D
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#216 is the best Metisse you will ever see. The Late Great Alan Brown built that bike and every detail on it is crafted engineering brilliance. Dave Bell does the riding and always leads from the front.
A Starmaker will go in the Zundapp frame with very little effort, just cut the cradle where the gearbox drops below the line. An XL250 will also go in there, plus countless others. There are quite a few 250 Beezas beeing built using this frame and they can be made to go stupidly fast.
Some those bikes look aweful (in my opionion). I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder and that is half the fun of building your special and doing it your way. But please tell me what was the mandoing when he fitted the exhaust to that Goldie? My eyes hurt.
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This was the bargain Metisse of the year....$1800 us for a very clean looking Mk4 500 Triumph Metisse. It wouldn't have cost much at all to get it back in proper Metisse livery and on the track OR, it'd be the perfect little Cafe racer/Street tracker as is.....albeit with a tank that fits properly!
I'm going to have to check out Craig List more often. :o
http://throttleyard.com/2011/12/01/1970-rickman-triumph-500-httptampa-craigslist-orgpnlmcy2714269224-html/ (http://throttleyard.com/2011/12/01/1970-rickman-triumph-500-httptampa-craigslist-orgpnlmcy2714269224-html/)
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Can any of you blokes answer what is probably a dumb question about Metisse frame kits? Are all Mk3 kits the same? That is, are different motor/gearbox cobinations fitted using different engine plates or are specific engine mounts welded to the frame for the selected engine/gearbox? In other words ... if I were to order a frame for, say a B40, would i be able to install a Jawa engine and Norton gearbox at a later date without mucking up the nickel coating?
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Can any of you blokes answer what is probably a dumb question about Metisse frame kits? Are all Mk3 kits the same?
In a nutshell Rodger....No. In the case you mentioned, the Mk3A B40 kit would be for small unit construction engines (B40/44/50,T100R) whilst the Jawa speedway engine / Norton box combo would require a larger frame cradle for the more bulky pre unit engine/ box and associated engine plates. I found from experience with my own MK4 500 Triumph Metisse that the bigger 650 unit engine wouldn't fit. I know that the Mk4 frame is physically smaller than the Mk3a so perhaps that particular 500-650 jump would work on a Mk3a. Alan Jones Black Betty unit ESO Metisse frame was custom made (along with Dean Rowe's Red Betty) because the engine wouldn't fit in any of the existing jigged frames.
That's my simplified take on it but I'm sure Flower Pot Ben, Jikov or some of our other forum Rickman experts can enlarge on my ramblings.
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For Firko:
(http://www.leguidevert.com/annonces/images/a32318_1.jpg)
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Gee ola, I really like the look of that. is it for sale?
Stan.
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Yes it is, but it's not mine, it's french, ad is here: http://www.leguidevert.com/_V6/annonce.php?numero=32318&titre=MAICO-360--1965
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For Firko:
Thanks Martin, I missed this while I was away. What a cool little bike, obviously built using a Bultaco Petite Metisse or Bultaco M11 roller and a 250 alloy oval Maico motor. For 6000 euros the frame would want to be a genuine Rickman item and not one of those water pipe Bultaco M11 fatigue magnets. ;D
Seein it makes me anxious to get back into my own little Maico Metisse project....as soon as my Yamaha side track is completed ::).
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Really nice victor Metisse blue on US ebay at moment.Do you know the bike Firko???
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I spotted it too Paul...a good price too. I'm not familiar with the bike but it's pretty similar to Jonesy's except for Alan's having the Weslake conversion. Maybe Tahitian Red might know a bit about it.
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160781409076&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:MOTORS:1123#v4-46)
It looks like there's a bidding war going on between two or three bidders. There's a good chance it may end up here in Oz. ::)
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Here's another Micro Metisse engine swap...this one a with Suzuki TM250 power. As I said elsewhere, is there any engine that hasn't been fitted to the little Metisse?
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/309736_2328988496845_1013673488_32565770_457541240_n.jpg)
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That would be a real good thing IMO
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That looks great. Looks like a factory job. Really well done. Front end wants picking up a little?
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Another Micro Metisse engine swap...this one with a Triumph Tiger Cub engine. It's not exactly my choice of motor but each to his own I guess ::)
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/Photo-184.jpg)
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/rickmancub.jpg)
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Does the Tiger Cub have links to Ducati or is it my imagination??
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Another Micro Metisse engine swap...this one with a Triumph Tiger Cub engine. It's not exactly my choice of motor but each to his own I guess ::)
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/Photo-184.jpg)
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/rickmancub.jpg)
That's a really pretty bike. But OMG what were they on when they made that pipe? Sort the pipe out and it will finish the bike of nicely.
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Here's another Micro Metisse engine swap...this one a with Suzuki TM250 power. As I said elsewhere, is there any engine that hasn't been fitted to the little Metisse?
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/309736_2328988496845_1013673488_32565770_457541240_n.jpg)
That looks soooo good!
Looks to me like it uses the VR-engined frame & RM engine.
Shame really cos it makes the exercise rather pointless, at least for competition use.
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I found this on Marks Swapmeet. It appears to be a Rickman Monty frame with an XL350 engine and Mk3 bodywork. It's a mystery to me as to how he actually got the Honda motor in there. I bought a Rickman Montesa frame specifically to build a similar bike but found that the Honda motor wouldn't fit without a lot of hacksaw and oxy work. Is there any engine's that haven't been fitted to these frames? I heard of a Zundapp version fitted with a Honda CB350 twin the other day. My mate's looking for the photos and I'll post 'em when and if they turn up.
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/MetisseHon.jpg)
FOR SALE
Ad # 3195125 May 19, 2012
Honda/Rickman MKIII replica XL350/410. Custom built, nickel plated, chrome-moly frame, new reproduction fiberglass, 410 venolia, MegaCycle needle bearing cam, billet Webster trans. gears, 38 Mikuni, total loss ignition, custom engine covers with modern oil filter, special clutch mechanism, and footpeg mounts, Bultaco wheels, Penton/Ceriani forks with billet clamps and emulators. Under 230 lbs, starts easy, sounds fantastic. Too many bikes, need to raise cash, lowered price. $5,000, $4,400 without Ohlins.
J.P. Morgen
San Francisco, CA, U.S.A.
Phone: 415 822-1315 | Email
http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/largephoto.cgi?C=SnBx197VAdEw6etG&w=2 (http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/largephoto.cgi?C=SnBx197VAdEw6etG&w=2)
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Amazing to fit a XL in there with that large gap to the tank
Alot of work to my eye looks like the main down tube has been replaced with a large diameter and longer to get the larger work space
Just had to compare this to my rickman frame which has 38mm down tube diameter
Still a very nice job for the four stroke fans
cheers
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That is an unusal frame. Head stock style is Mk3 / Petite (Bultaco / Starmarker etc) It isnt a 4 stroke MK3 frame as it would have an oil filler at the head stock, which is why I say it is a Petite style frame ie 2 stroke
The cradle is Montessa style. The back bone of the frame on a Montessa frame wont accept the curvey bodywork. Head stock definately isnt Montessa style.
Looks to be very well made and a nice choice of motor.
A very nice bike for someone. Would love to know what it really is as I cant recall seeling a single down tube Metisse with that style headstock or bodywork fitted.....
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It appears to be professionally done too Ben....nickel plating and neat welding and fabrication. I was originally thinking that it may be a Mk3 modified to single front downtube as the front downtube appears to be bigger in diameter to the stock Montesa Rickman. However, seeing that the bike's located in the USA I figured that the bike may a custom made job from one of the many frame builders that operated in the 60's/70's such as the great Harry Hindall. My guess is that the Honda Metisse came from the same workshop as the Triumph "Metisse" shown below that I uncovered during some research for an upcoming story.
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/red650.jpg)
Although it appears to be a run of the mill 650 Triumph Metisse MkIII, this bike is actually Skip Otto's Hindall 650 Triumph fitted with Metisse bodywork. Although it's hard to tell from the photo, this bike also seems to have a single front downtube like our Honda powered mystery bike.
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http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RICKMAN-METISSE-TRIUMPH-MK3-/320911422950?pt=AU_Motorcycles&hash=item4ab7cfb5e6
This bike is on ebay at the moment, the bike was being raced last weekend at Barrabool, its Ray Fishers bike, it was also nice to see ray there too.
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http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RICKMAN-METISSE-TRIUMPH-MK3-/320911422950?pt=AU_Motorcycles&hash=item4ab7cfb5e6
This bike is on ebay at the moment, the bike was being raced last weekend at Barrabool, its Ray Fishers bike, it was also nice to see ray there too.
phwar. Propper job. Stunner. Can hear it now. Nice. Hope he has it on R or at the very least has some in the fuel.
Lovely!
.........
(I have one that isnt being used, it's an orignal bike from New Milton, very similar spec in BRG, albeit mag forks, BTH electronic mag (£ouch). Isnt being used and needs to be ridden. Top end just rebuilt ready to ride. F-P-R now realises that he is no longer a playboy and young kids means fun in muddy fields on sundays and spending every waking spare minute in the garage is a thing of the past... )
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(I have one that isnt being used, it's an orignal bike from New Milton, very similar spec in BRG, albeit mag forks, BTH electronic mag (£ouch). Isnt being used and needs to be ridden. Top end just rebuilt ready to ride. F-P-R now realises that he is no longer a playboy and young kids means fun in muddy fields on sundays and spending every waking spare minute in the garage is a thing of the past... )
Ben, how may bikes do you have? Cheneys, HL's, your beautiful Curtis Honda and whatever else you have hidden in the Penny mancave. The boys will soon be a bit older and digging sitting on a stool watching Dad fiddle with his bikes. Don't do anything desperate such as selling your precious race tackle just yet!
What do you think of my Hindall theory based on the Triumph bike shown above?
BTW, our forums own Jim will soon be in your neck of the woods, he's on a plane to the Mother Country as we speak. Apparently he tried to contact you about catching up for a chat but didn't get a reply. He's planning on visiting the Antig factory and Jerry Lisi's Metisse concern (I gave him my opinion of that little exercise) and I think he was wanting to catch up with other VMX oriented businesses in the area. He's got his laptop with him so you can catch him through the forum.
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He did make contact and we have spoken. Always good to meet up with travellers who come this way.
The BGR Metisse is the twin to #75 Ivor England 'works' bike so having two the same (albeit it Ivor's bike is Ivory) is a bit excessive (in a nice way!)
The man cave is not as big as I'd like it to be and is somewhat grid locked. I have access to other storage, but there comes a time when you have to stop, take stock and think about what you are doing. In my case, I have no idea! Just out of control.....
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How's this for a cheap little Rickman? It's in California too, making the shipping to Oz a whole lot easier.
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/zundapp.jpg)
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/zundapp2.jpg)
FOR SALE
Ad # 3196351 June 13, 2012
1972 Rickman Zundapp 100/125 Frame.
This frame has been left to rot and time is winning. Thi little frame needs a home. Tag #3/72 - 4168z
Asking price is $75 if interested please call Lance at 661-317-2371
LANCE BROWN
LANCASTER, CALIF., L.A.
Phone: 661-317-2371 | Email | Website
Registered Since 6/11/2012 | 90 Posts
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can you use these mitesse and rickman frames in pre 70 ??
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You can use certain Rickman Metisse frames but not the Zundapp or Montesa versions. like the one pictured.
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Firko, there may not be a swing arm with this frame, do you know if the Rickman Montesa one fits?
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Not too sure Monte but there's a couple for sale on eBay right now. Or...the bloke selling the Zundapp frame also has a basket case earlyMonty version for sale which looks almost beyond repair. Ask him if the swingarm measures up and if it does buy both frames but ask him to remove the swingarm from the basketcase Monty version and include it with the Zundapp. It's a thought ;D http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/largephoto.cgi?C=QM2mAYF5Edh9K9TM (http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/largephoto.cgi?C=QM2mAYF5Edh9K9TM)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AHRMA-1972-Rickman-Zundapp-125cc-MX-SWING-ARM-/230405501777?hash=item35a53cf351&item=230405501777&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/AHRMA-1972-Rickman-Zundapp-125cc-MX-SWING-ARM-/230405501777?hash=item35a53cf351&item=230405501777&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-ZUNDAPP-125-RICKMAN-SWINGARM-/230729083966?hash=item35b8866c3e&item=230729083966&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-ZUNDAPP-125-RICKMAN-SWINGARM-/230729083966?hash=item35b8866c3e&item=230729083966&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr)
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Here's yet another Micro Metisse engine swap bike, this one fitted with a DT1 Yamaha motor. You couldn't buy a roller and build it yourself for twice the asking price. It's the desirable 1" tubing '73/74 model too. The discs would have to go but the restis already up and running.
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/06Jun11-RickmanYamahaMXMX.jpg)
Rickman framed with a 1973 Yamaha 250 engine. Originally housed a Penton. Yamaha engine completely rebuilt, New body paint, bars, grips, and rear tire. Unique bike with front and rear disc brakes.
$900 Would considertrade for small cc titled street or enduro bike.
Bob 231-750-5054 days or 21-893-9039 evenings and weekends.
June 11
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Wow!that's cheap,interesting choice of brakes.Also a nice Montesa version on Mark's for $1600.
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(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/rickmanmont.jpg)
http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/largephoto.cgi?C=EE2vQD4HcTUuKWt8 (http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/largephoto.cgi?C=EE2vQD4HcTUuKWt8)
FOR SALE
Ad # 3196521 June 17, 2012
This is a 1974 Rickman VB250. It has Progessive shocks, tires are in good condition, fenders, side panels are original. Runs good. Asking $1.600
Jim Pasenow
Wakeman, OH
Phone: 440-371-4942 | Email
Registered Since 4/11/2011 | 10 Posts
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That dt1 sold cause i emailed the guy. but my question is regarding the frames, when are they first made ? cause surely its the concept rather then the production date.
NEw rules say any frame so long as it period empathetic, so unless its got a third wheel, surely if the lines are the same ish.... you can use them.
So how do you find out what frames are pre 70 construction so you can follow them on. ? im a noob on the A/M motorcross stuff. Nad to my eye they prity much look the same ba a few changes to tank mounts etc.
please school me up on these frame someone
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That dt1 sold cause i emailed the guy. but my question is regarding the frames, when are they first made ? cause surely its the concept rather then the production date.
Dammit I was going to call the seller when I got home. That looked like a ripper deal to me.
NEw rules say any frame so long as it period empathetic, so unless its got a third wheel, surely if the lines are the same ish.... you can use them.
Hey maybe there's hope for my TM frame after all ;D
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The Rickman Zundapp and Montesa Micro Metisse frames have very little in common with the pre 70 legal MK4 Metisse and the pre 65 MK3, 3a and Petite frames are different again. I questioned Dave Tanner as to whether a Mk4 Metisse from 1968 would be legal under the new pre 65 frame interpretation and he replied with a definite NO. So, if the similar to a Mk3, Mk 4 is a no-no, the very different Rickman Zundapp and Montesa Micro's would be a definite no-no too.
Trust me Freaky, if I could get my Maico squarie powered Micro Metisse into my beloved pre 70 class I'd be bloody well doing it because I have a sneaking feeling that it's going to be a ripper of a bike. Unfortunately as the current rules stand, I'm building it purely as a Classic Dirt/HBBB fun bike and occasional pre 75 racer.
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OK so wise me up, if i want a PRe 70 frame what am i looking for ? any metisee frame thats pre MK 5 and are they stamped as such or is it just a date clue on a headset plate ?
and casue im stupid can i ask the obvious. is a Rickman metisse the same frame as a metisse, or is that a licening thing from the rickman or dunstall factorys
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Your giving me a headache Kerry.....just buy a CeeZee sidepiper and ride it....you've got too many projects now allready.....or a CR400 Husky....you could do your Steve McQueen impersonation.
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and casue im stupid can i ask the obvious. is a Rickman metisse the same frame as a metisse, or is that a licening thing from the rickman or dunstall factorys
The original makers of the metisse are the Rickman brothers so any bike with Rickman in the name should be a period frame
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i could be wrong but i thought that
all the micro eg montesa zundap sachs b50 ect are pre75
all the triumph and other english motored frames that are mk3 are pre65
bultaco frames are pre 70
firko pls explain
jim
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i could be wrong but i thought that
all the micro eg montesa zundap sachs b50 ect are pre75
all the triumph and other english motored frames that are mk3 are pre65
bultaco frames are pre 70
firko pls explain
jim
It's not what engine is in the frame but the frame itself. The Zundapp/Hodaka and Montesa powered Micro Rickmans are all pre 75 with no hope of them getting into pre 70 as the first of them came out in 1971. The more compact Mk4 replaced the Mk3 in 1966.There was no specific complete B50 Metisse made but many folks put the engine in Mk4 kits. Production Rickman Metisse Mk4's were produced from 1968 with BSA B44 engines fitted with Weslake 490cc conversion kits. (Before you ask Freaky, it's nothing like the speedway top end ;)). Mk4's are also made for 500 T100 Triumph and DT1 Yamaha engines (very, very rare). The bigger 650 Triumph and pre unit 500 engines won't physically fit in the more compact Mk4 frame. The Bultaco 'Petite Metisse' came out in 1964 and is legal for pre '65. Bultaco made an almost exact copy of this frame, only it weighed much more as it was made from sub standard mild steel tubing instead of the Rickmans's ultra light Reynolds 531 tube. It's called the Bultaco M11 and is also legal for pre 65. Does that explain it any better?
The original makers of the metisse are the Rickman brothers so any bike with Rickman in the name should be a period frame
Should be what period? Just to confuse things a little, Adrian Moss makes replica Mk3 Metisses under the name Rickman Motorcycles www.rickman-motorcycles.com/ (http://www.rickman-motorcycles.com/) and Gerry Lisi makes replica Metisse Mk3's under the business name of Metisse Motorcycleswww.metisse-motorcycles.com (http://www.metisse-motorcycles.com). They are both legal for pre 65 and they're both considered legitimate Metisses by all racing bodies.
OK so wise me up, if i want a PRe 70 frame what am i looking for ? any metisee frame thats pre MK 5 and are they stamped as such or is it just a date clue on a headset plate ?
For a start there is no such thing as a Mk 5 Metisse. Mk 4 is the last of the "Mark" bikes as the Zundapp, Hodaka and Montesa Rickmans weren't called Mk4 even though they have similar fibreglass bodywork. In fact, I don't think they're officially called Metisses. To race in pre 70 you need a Mk 4 or Mk3. I'm presuming you're thinking two stroke Freaky so you need a Mk4 Metisse frame made for a DT1 or a pre 65 Petite Metisse Bultaco frame or a more common Bultaco M11. You won't find a DT1 Metisse or genuine Bultaco Petite Metisse for under 10k so I guess you're stuck with a Bultaco M11.
and casue im stupid can i ask the obvious. is a Rickman metisse the same frame as a metisse, or is that a licening thing from the rickman or dunstall factorys
I think this has been explained above. Dunstall has nothing to do with Rickman whatsoever and never have.
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cool i think that explains it some more
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thanks mark i thought i was close
there is also wasp frames which are coppies of the mk3
jim
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You won't find a DT1 Metisse or genuine Bultaco Petite Metisse for under 10k so I guess you're stuck with a Bultaco M11.
unless you look in my garage... I have a beautiful factory spec Rickman Bultaco Petite Metisse that is less than 10k.
First 9,999 gets it.
(motor rebuilt by a world champion who's Dad raced a one in the 60s)
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i believe thats another pommie,frame making family- Tutte'.
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there is also wasp frames which are coppies of the mk3
Ooops...I forgot Wasps contribution to the replica Metisse Replica saga Jim.
http://wasp-motorcycles.tripod.com/ (http://wasp-motorcycles.tripod.com/)
nless you look in my garage... I have a beautiful factory spec Rickman Bultaco Petite Metisse that is less than 10k.(motor rebuilt by a world champion who's Dad raced a one in the 60s)
It wouldn't be the ex champ from up the road Neil Hudson would it Ben? Jeeez, I see why you need to offload some stuff :o. You were going to send me a shot of the mancave ;D!
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mark a photo wont do it. you must go there and look
thats all i will say
jim
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Here's an odd one. At first this appears to be a run of the mill Rickman Montesa painted US Racing Blue. Closer inspection shows twin front downtubes making it a Rickman Zundapp with a Monty engine. The genuine factory Rickman Montesa features a single downtube frame to accept the VR side exhaust port engine but this motor has a centre exhaust port so it's obviously from a VB and later model with the centre exhaust port. The cases look different to those of a VB Cappra so what's the engine from Montesaphiles?
Is there any end to the different engines fitted to this great little frame ??? ?
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/Picture213.jpg)
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/5CF2F186.jpg)
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Looks like a little trials engine in a Rickman Zundapp frame to me. Very nice all the same.... has gone in there nicely
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Its a VA125 engine, putting it out of pre-75. Not the greatest or most reliable engine to use.
But it does look nice. Neat fit.
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Its a VA125 engine, putting it out of pre-75. Not the greatest or most reliable engine to use.
Thanks John I should have known you'd pick it ;). I agree that the VA125 motor wouldn't have been my first choice for an engine swap either, the original Zundapp's probably quicker. This is probably one of those "I've got this motor and this frame so I wonder if......" situations. A VB360 would be an interesting little swap now that we know the cases fit ;D.
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ooohhh la lar :o Nice easy brake peddle/no boot catching :P
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/250-metisse-new-build-/150865342863?pt=UK_Motorcycles&hash=item232046718f
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Red triumph metisse in pic with 'john service' above bike looks identical to mine [ahh memories aye], ceriani forks. british front hub [i think], bsa rear wheel, mmmm.
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Its a VA125 engine, putting it out of pre-75. Not the greatest or most reliable engine to use.
Thanks John I should have known you'd pick it ;). I agree that the VA125 motor wouldn't have been my first choice for an engine swap either, the original Zundapp's probably quicker. This is probably one of those "I've got this motor and this frame so I wonder if......" situations. A VB360 would be an interesting little swap now that we know the cases fit ;D.
The VB360 cases are completely different to the 125 series. That VA/VB 125 engines are the same except for a huge carbie on the VB (36mm BING on three transfer non reed valve engine) which gave it a power band about as wide as a bees d&*k. The extra revs made the unreliable VA125 into a hand grenade. That looks like a large BING on that engine.
Firko. The VB250/360 series engines are much bigger in size (longer) than the 125 series. Beside if someone has a spare VB250/360 engine lying around just let me know ;D ;D PLEASE please let me know ;)
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Please excuse my Metisse ignorance but do all frames have pretty much the same wheelbase, or does it vary with the HP of the engine fitted?
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Please excuse my Metisse ignorance but do all frames have pretty much the same wheelbase, or does it vary with the HP of the engine fitted
They're all different shapes and sizes Steve, Post # 1767 sort of explains it. The smaller the Metisse (Micro and Petite) the shorter they are compared to the Mk3 and Mk4 biggun's.
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Forgive me if this has been pointed out before but all current frames, either Rickman or Metisse are made for the respective firms by Wasp, they all come from that source. as far as I know they always have done.
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er... no on many fronts.
I dont think Gerry Lisi would thank you for saying that! I suspect he is on the phone to his legal team right now ~ expect a letter soon.
Various people will make you a frame. In the UK and Europe.
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Forgive me if this has been pointed out before but all current frames, either Rickman or Metisse are made for the respective firms by Wasp, they all come from that source. as far as I know they always have done.
Cloggy there are at least three distinct and separate companies in the business of producing Metisse replicas. Adrian Moss makes replica Mk3 Metisses under the name Rickman Motorcycles www.rickman-motorcycles.com/ , Gerry Lisi makes replica Metisse Mk3's under the business name of Metisse Motorcycles www.metisse-motorcycles.com (http://www.metisse-motorcycles.com) and Robin Rhind-Tutt manufactures Metisse copies under the Wasp name http://wasp-motorcycles.tripod.com/ (http://wasp-motorcycles.tripod.com/). They are all legal for the pre 65 class and are all considered legitimate Metisses by all racing bodies.
*Congratulations to Flowerpot Ben and his wife on the recent birth of a baby son....his third boy in 5 years!
Good work mate.
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They can send me all the legal docs they like but I'm fairly local and the word locally is that they both source from Robin. They are savvy businessmen, they get stuff made by the best people and pull it all together. There's a recent article in classic dirt bike mag about Robin in which he states his family firm make Metisse frames these days. Since he's full time and Wasp solo frames are rare who do you suppose he's making them for?
An acquaintence of mine was working for a factory making F1 engines, they make for three different "engine" manufacturers. It's the way of the world now.
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er no seriously.
Wasp make many products including the MK3. Adrian Moss sells them (deal with him, top bloke does lots of good for our sport) Geri is nothing to do with WASP and does not sell WASP products. He sells the MK3
There is also a magnificent craftsman in Europe who makes replica frames including a replica of the MK3. His work is beautiful. His frames are TIG welded not brazed.
There are also other very good frame makers in the UK who will make you a frame. Done in batches of 12. Absolutely beautiful quality.
If you know the answer to your question, why are you asking.....?
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When I said Rickman and Metisse I was meaning those two, not metisse type frames. I can only go on what I've been told, if I said who by I'd by dropping them in it. You sound like you're very close to Geri so I'll take your word.
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I dont know Geri or have any desire to know him and I am in no way connected with him.
I do know Adrian Moss. With out speaking out of turn I think you can take it on good authority that Adrian wouldnt want to be associated with any products that Geri is selling and I dare say vice versa.
Perhaps it s me and things have changed. I would be inclined to suggest not.
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So, have I read it wrong or are you saying Robin Rhind-Tutt at Wasp make Mk3 frames for Adrian Moss at Rickman? You learn something every day ;). Does Adrian do any manufacturing at all? Geri Lisi, took over Pat French's operation and is most certainly doing it in opposition to Wasp and Adrian Moss.
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And we shouldn't forget the el-cheapo version out of China. ;)
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And we shouldn't forget the el-cheapo version out of China.
Damn! I forgot all about him. The Chitisse should be approaching production very soon I'd presume, if I was Rhind-Tutt, Moss or Lisi I'd be seriously shitting myself. ::)
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So, have I read it wrong or are you saying Robin Rhind-Tutt at Wasp make Mk3 frames for Adrian Moss at Rickman? You learn something every day ;). Does Adrian do any manufacturing at all? Geri Lisi, took over Pat French's operation and is most certainly doing it in opposition to Wasp and Adrian Moss.
Yes, I am saying that. Adrian is the main man that pulls it all together and makes the magic happen. If you are after a Metisse frame kit, speak to Adrian.
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And we shouldn't forget the el-cheapo version out of China.
Damn! I forgot all about him. The Chitisse should be approaching production very soon I'd presume, if I was Rhind-Tutt, Moss or Lisi I'd be seriously shitting myself. ::)
What happened to that? We should be careful mocking. The Chinese do make rubbish like everywhere else. They also make beautiful high end products. If the job is done well it could be a good thing (?). More beautiful bikes, cheap as chips (?), so fun for all. More bums on the line, higher entries, continuation of our sport etc etc and if you want a real one you can still get one.
Look what happened to the British bike industry. Jap Crap. No one says that anymore....
I suspect it is just a question of time. I look forward to an update
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Chinisse Metese.
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Yet another Micro Metisse engine swap....this one's got Honda XL185 power.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/15492995-284452-large.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/15492995-28445-large.jpg)
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It is OK but.... Would prefer one of my pet modified SL125 engines.
Bucket list item for Tim754 Micro Metisse roller for SL125 or Hodaka 125 Super Combat power.. ;)
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Ben's sent me this photo of the new 'glass for my upcoming Maico Petite Metisse. Rather than getting it in the usual red, BRG, black or even the standard Petite pale yellow, I opted for the Ivory colour, a sort of beige that the Yanks christened Desert Sand. I can't wait to get stuck into this little project....the oval barreled 360 motor is well underway with an updated close ration box, PVL ignition and a 350 crank..of course balanced by Franks Cranks. I'm really looking forward to putting a "lowly" two stroke in amongst the big Brit 4 strokes in the pre 65 500 class. I'm also considering building a 250 motor if we decide to go 250 class for a change. ;)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/MarksIvorykit.jpg)
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Very noice,my Sprite Tank that Red Alert did is very very similor,called it "WA Sand" ;D
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Also in the photo is the new rear subframe and seat from Adrian Moss. I've got another set of this guys fibreglass, the Mk3 - Mk4 conversion kit for my currently dormant Micro Metisse Maico project. This guy's glass work is the best of the best, as anyone who's seen his work will tell you. Because the Petite Metisse Maico has come along the earlier project will now be re-engined by either a DT1 Yamaha or, if I'm feeling adventurous, my Cooper Moto Islo 250 motor. How cool would a Moto Islo Metisse be? I just love the way it rolls off the tongue ;D
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/images1-1.jpg)
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The joys of seeing my shiny new glass kit above got me on a bit of a high but the sight of the frame that's going under it has bought me back to Planet Earth. The frame is obviously in need of a little bit of love and understanding but basket cast offs that nobody else wants are my particular VMX fetish. What makes this particular frame more attractive (to me) is that it's a genuine period Derek and Don built, Reynold 531 tubed Rickman Petite Metisse, circa 1964 which are extremely rare. The mild steel water pipe M11 Bultaco built version is far more common but twice the weight (and still hard to find). The frame appears to need a slight bit of surgery to
repair replace the missing rear downtubes and to fabricate engine mounts to suit the Maico 360 motor. I'll also have to source or fabricate a set of footpeg mounts and who knows what else that may arise. Instead of re nickel plating the frame I'm intending to look into painting it using one of the new comercially available 'chrome' paints. Building a competitive pre 65/500 2 stroker is a great challenge so with a bit of luck I might just have it going for the Canberra Classic Nats.
The daggy looking Mk4 bodywork shown in the bottom photo has been turned to UK landfill by Flowerpot Ben. Not only was it off the wrong model, it was totally rooted.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/petiteframefromside.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/petiteframe.jpg)
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Still a juicy project Mark, Mmmmm.
The Reynolds tubing ,all bronzed together like my Wasp frames?
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The stash hits the water tomorrow...... ;D
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This is probably Australia's greatest Metisse, Roy East's legendary G80 powered beast that he rode throughout the sixties in the UK and upon his return here in the late 60's. I'm one of the few who's had the absolute pleasure of riding this ugly yet efficient old battler, doing 10 laps around Nepean dirt track in the early 90's. I couldn't believe how fast such an ugly old bike could be. When I rode it it still had the Ceriani forks and 7'' magnesium front hub but in the photo its shown to have a Husky front end and Lelou Husky 125 wheel, fitted after Roy's monumental over the bars crash when the mag hub shattered like a broken bottle when he grabbed a handful of front brake for turn one at Nepean. I was in that race behind him and he was lucky not to have been killed, he hit the ground so violently and then 300lbs of Metisse landing on him.
Old Roy was a tough old bugger and continued to race his Husky 250 for the rest of the day but we knew he was in a lot of pain. Not once did he complain....an attitude that carried him right through to his death of Parkinsons Disease a few years later. He was a great bloke and a true lover of vintage motocross. The bike's now owned by Brian Clarkson, himself a legend and not sailing too well healthwise.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Picture018-1.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Picture194.jpg)
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(http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/66990_442583182478146_1626437751_n.jpg)
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Sweet Petite 8)
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Here's the way my above Rickman basket case frame would have originally looked. There's been a change of direction and it'll now be fitted with one of my DT1 motors.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Howietoys1002009072_zps7b9cdecc.jpg)
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apart from the bultaco type of tripple clamp what is the other type that is pre65 leagle on the matisse
jim
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Australia's most historically significant Metisse, the legendary Roy East Matchless Mk3 that he rode in Europe and the UK during the '60's and in it's 'comeback' for VMX between 1988 and 1995 was on display at the HEAVEN Buladelah Roy East pre 65 series meeting on the weekend. While never being the prettiest Metisse on the planet, it reeks of the little tricks that Roy was infamous for and it was covered in well earned Patina .
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/buladelah21july13001_zps9785089f.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/buladelah21july13001_zps9785089f.jpg.html)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/buladelah21july13023_zpsd30b34cf.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/buladelah21july13023_zpsd30b34cf.jpg.html)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Picture194.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/Picture194.jpg.html)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Picture3044.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/Picture3044.jpg.html)
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Is there a smaller tank option for a MK4 bike....the stock Rickman tank although nice is a tad on the large size for my taste. I like the looks of number 31 but an not sure if that would work on aMK4 chassis...any insight welcome on tank options....thanks in advance.
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You're right, the tank on Fast Eddie Phipps Mk3 ESO Metisse is the optional alloy item for the Mk3 and it won't fit a Mk4. I think you're stuck with what you've got on a Mk4. Maybe the tank on the Rickman Zundapp or Montesa will fit a full size Mk4 but I don't know if they're smaller........they're steel anyway, not a good option unless ethanol fuel's eating up your 'glass tank .
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Picture876_zps11018a9b.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/Picture876_zps11018a9b.jpg.html)
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Firko
, you my friend are all knowing when it comes to these older MX treasures....thank you...I happen yo know a great tin bender that specialities in alloy....I think we shall try our hand at building one similar to fast Eddies unit....which is a very nice piece of kit...thanks again...