OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: 090 on October 22, 2010, 11:29:21 pm
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Hey all. I say mine but Dad bought this one. Haven't got any pic's of the whole bike as we pulled it apart straight away. Its a 1965 ish bike. As far as I know the rarest of CZ production bikes. We were pretty keen and after putting the word out found two. One in Holland in pristine condition and the one we bought from NZ. After we went through the pro's and con's , we came to the conclusion that even though the NZ bike wasn't as good a condition as the Dutch one, it was still pretty good and close enough to done. The owner said the motor had been "gone through", tank was painted, so to the frame. It also had a new set of pipes. The owner informed us that the bike was only "thrown together and would need to be assembled properly". I was also told that "it will need more time than $$". I am using exact quotes here hence the "".
Also the wheels are restored with "new alloy rims". There are also parts of another motor and old exhaust.
The deciding factors of buying this one over the Dutch one was that the Dutch bike was unknown territory as far as shipping was concerned and was just over a grand dearer and no idea who the owner was. The NZ bike was owned by a guy that has imported and exported quite a few bikes and being a close neighbour, felt safer. Plus we could lean on him for advise so there weren't any mistakes made by us which always result in paying more than you should (shipping fees)!
SO! After many dramas and a lot of money thrown away due to not having paper work etc sorted ($1050 EXTRA ::)), we finally got the bike.
So how does the bike look in real life?
Well we were extremely disappointed. Tank is painted and looks pretty good as does the frame. New pipes are just that.There are the pluses.
The negatives are;
Seat foam and cover have been thrown away. Dad Can save the base as its fibreglass and can be repaired.
The chrome on the forks are gone and need re chroming. On further inspection the fork uppers are incorrect for the bike and at a guess are off a '78-'80 model bike as they are way too long.
The rims are not new, just polished old ones. To be pedantic I prefer stainless spokes unlike the plain spokes used.
The shocks are rooted and have no value at all. Leaking, chrome rusted, bump stops deteriorated.
The handlebars and controls will be thrown away. They are just junk.
The motor is a mess. Its had a blow up so the head was mangled.It has been welded up and then attacked with a die grinder. What a f@#king hack job. Where it has been welded the weld sits up at least 7 thou compared to the rest of the head. It would never have worked.
The piston to bore is roughly 10 thou. If I measure properly in the middle of the bore it would be more for sure. You can drive a truck through the ring end gap. Millimetres, not thou.
Crank seals in crooked. A genius has "gone through" this thing. Everything is fixable. Just got to keep digging in those pockets.
Parts of the clutch are missing as well. Waiting for a puller to strip the rest of the motor but thankfully the gearbox looks fine and have my hopes up with the big end.
So the big question. How much did we pay for this beast. Would you believe $8000au? that's right 8k AND in real dollars to boot. That's equivalent to over $10,000 NZ dollars. :-[
Am I being fair about this. shit there is always two sides to a story. After a bit of discussion and me saying I want to race it, he did say I should reco the top end . To also be fair he said he "forgot" about the rims and was prepared to reimburse me the equivalent of two Chinese rims. I did tell him to stick his cheap arse rims where the sun don't shine ( that could be anywhere in NZ :D).
Hopefully you can see the faults I have highlighted, as most of you would know that pictures can lie if you take them at the right angle and light.
Conservatively, I reckon I will have to tip in another $2.5K. Its usually more than you think! I asked for $1500 back. I never got it.
So... good deal?
Oh, I think quite a few would either know him or have heard of him.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-5/1259377/cz360%20twin%20014.JPG)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-5/1259377/cz360%20twin%20021.JPG)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-5/1259377/cz360%20twin%20025.JPG)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-5/1259377/cz360%20twin%20023.JPG)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-5/1259377/cz360%20twin%20027.JPG)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-5/1259377/cz360%20twin%20030.JPG)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-5/1259377/cz360%20twin%20026.JPG)
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there is nothing worse than paying good money and the bike get no where near what was described. bloody disgusting
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Disappointing at the least Brad. Ignorance is one thing, deception another. You'll make a treat out of it anyway. Don't let the condition take away from enjoyment of having the rare beast - make it better to make a statement.
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kehrist you bought a 1965 motorcycle and a CZ at that/
doesn't look bad what did you expect
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This sort of thing isnt new to me (seeing people buy bikes that are not as good as described) but for 8G i reckon i would expect at least a useable set of shocks and controls even if it were asian items.
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thats what I worry about Brad - really it is too hard earned to not get a good deal. I am contemplating a bike currently but worry when you get told - "the motor could do with a refresh - or I think it's all there" as it's in parts - but what do you do - it's always a risk.
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i cant see the pics for some reason
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Brad,let me know if you need a hand with the seller.I have a feeling his first initial starts with the letter R.
That is a freaking rip off and gives we Kiwis a bad name.
I am sure TM will assist me as well.
I would suggest that if anyone on the forum is considering buying a bike from over here,that they contact me or Bill or DJ and we scope it out for you.
Cheers
Craig
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i cant see the pics for some reason
"Big Red X" here too. I want to see it......
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kehrist you bought a 1965 motorcycle and a CZ at that/
doesn't look bad what did you expect
Is that a question or a statement?
Pictures seem to be there now.
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Brad,let me know if you need a hand with the seller.I have a feeling his first initial starts with the letter R.
That is a freaking rip off and gives we Kiwis a bad name.
I am sure TM will assist me as well.
I would suggest that if anyone on the forum is considering buying a bike from over here,that they contact me or Bill or DJ and we scope it out for you.
Cheers
Craig
Thanks mate. No its someone else.
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No worries Brad,I am steaming mad re this rip off and I would like to reinforce the point that I would welcome the ability to help you with this CZ, and or anyone else looking at buying a bike over here in future.
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Is that a question or a statement?
Pictures seem to be there now.
[/quote]
Statement, I mean apart from the engine top end the rest seems pretty decent. Plus the owner did tell you that it was thrown together and needed more work which meant it wasn't a minter.
What I find is everyone has different standard of what they think is good. Not a question of being ripped off, just every ones idea of a decent bike differs from others, you bought typical NZ farm yard concourse condition....believe me it could have been worse. Better to get stuck in and go through it yourself for peace of mind.
I don't like to buy bikes that are original New Zealand bikes at all as they definitely get used and with VMXers finally end up on the beach or farm.
Plus New Zealander's are cl
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(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/cz360twin014.jpg)
(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/cz360twin013.jpg)
(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/cz360twin023.jpg)
(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/cz360twin018.jpg)
(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/cz360twin027.jpg)
I have used another host as the pictures don't seem to be loading. There are more but will have to wait till I get back.
Please bare in mind, this is not a $1500 bike that I paid $8K for. In the condition it is in and with the spares, I would have paid $6K for it.
kehrist you bought a 1965 motorcycle and a CZ at that/
doesn't look bad what did you expect
While I am here I will answer it as if it was a question.
A seat that wasn't rooted, decent controls, forks that weren't incorrect and pitted, shocks that weren't rooted, a motor that didn't need to be completely stripped and rebuilt 'again', new rims, a need to spend at least 2.5K on top of the big money paid as it " will need more time than $$".
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yeah i would be disappointed as well, is this a pre 65 eligible bike? and does it have a left hand shift ?
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yes id be a dissappointed at that myself ( d p)
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Brad
That sucks mate!
Still far better than sending $2850US to the US to bumbfu_ksville and never seeing the bike (to this day!)
If you want the head re-welded and machined back to spec I know a guy who can do that ;)
I'm sure you and your dad will get it looking as good as his Maico.
Dave Mac :)
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A number of different situations come to the fore here, the most distressing being that the bike wasn't in the condition that both the price and the sellers description had alluded to. It's sad that this kind of thing still goes on especially with 'top end' bikes like this. You'r more likely to expect this on a $1000 dunger but on an 8k classic, bought from a known enthusiast you'd expect more, a lot more.
With the dollar being an unprecedented high, more Aussies and Kiwis are looking to America and Europe to buy their dream bike. Both Alan Jones and I have being buying bikes from overseas for over ten years now and neither of us have had any major situations of being blatantly ripped off or receiving bikes that are less than the seller described. I guess it could be seen that we've been lucky and to be honest, there is a bit of luck involved, however I think that our 'luck' is more down to getting to know the seller as much as we can, and to examine the description and photos as closely as possible and remember that when you're spending serious money there's no such thing as a stupid question. In other words, we do our homework. Another thing that Ajay and I have done is to develop relationships with sellers and enthusiasts in the US, UK and even NZ. It's amazing how helpful these guys can be when it comes down to needing someone to inspect a bike or even to handle the occasional shipping or payment snafu. In the end though, we must still rely on trusting the seller and hope that we don't encounter one of those few sellers that take advantage of us being a big ocean away. Sadly Brad, you've been caught but eventually you'll get over it and the enjoyment you'll gain from owning and racing a genuine classic will overcome the disappointment.
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I look up Kiwi law , there are laws in Australia that will allow you to do something about this, see if there something simular in NZ and get a lawyer to ask for $2500.00 back or you will take legal action should smarten him up. For 8k it should have been what he said it was, as is it's worth 5 to 6k.
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What I find is everyone has different standard of what they think is good. Not a question of being ripped off, just every ones idea of a decent bike differs from others, you bought typical NZ farm yard concourse condition....believe me it could have been worse. Better to get stuck in and go through it yourself for peace of mind.
Plus New Zealander's are cl
What is a cl?
He has uploaded a few of his rides just the last couple of days on the Ning site when he joined last Wednesday and they all seem to be in VERY good condition. Maybe they are up in the works bike price range, or....
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yeah i would be disappointed as well, is this a pre 65 eligible bike? and does it have a left hand shift ?
It's a pre 70 mate and yes, all CZ's are left hand gear change. I can't ride the other way.
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dont tar all kiwis with one brush MARC , Kiwi law states "must be fit for purpose" and "as described" . it is a bit grey with personal transactions as it can be about perception of fit for purpose. Its a pity you arnt happy and hope you get a resolution . chin up im sure once it is finished it will be as great a quality as your other bikes.
Cheers
John
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I would be pissed off about the bike and be trying to get some coin back,dont bash all kiwis markfx they bash back pretty hard.
Dale.
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Hey Mr. 6 time National Champ, you fly Rudy to Unzed, I'll stay with banjo boy and hunt this miscreant down for you.
With my new I-berry-pod thingy, I'll send you back live shots of the torture, I mean discussion.
Nothing like the ride in the boot of a car for an hour to give a bloke time to think.
Love, Rudy
p.s. it snot "evil" for nutin'
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(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/cz360twin2006.jpg)
(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/cz360twin2001.jpg)
(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/cz360twin2008.jpg)
(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/cz360twin2013.jpg)
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Yes, there are some peoples out there who have no consience when it comes to making money.
Anyway, what exactly is the beast that you bought??
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Its a twin pipe 360. Started making them in 1965 which makes them pre 70. Before the side pipe. A lot less of these made then the 250 twin pipe.
(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/cz360twinpipe.jpg)
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Certainly disheartening, once got a bike from VICTORIA, All the talk of rebuilt motor sorted brakes suspension, etc. Got the bike to Sydney it was crap. After a few nice phone calls - no help. On more very persuasive call and the guy came good and sent a cheque for $250 and some parts. I still really don't know if he was rip off merchant or someone just looking through Rose colour glasses.
Brett
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What condition is the gearbox in, thats some nasty looking oil.
How will you get the head fixed, is the combustion chamber the same as the later bikes?
I guess the bike is really only worth the money if you feel it is but personally I'd say someone has some serious explaining to do
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Brad, I hope the seller is reading these comments and will come to the party with some sort of refund.
With your contacts in Unzud why didn't you get a secound opinion ........
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Brad, I hope the seller is reading these comments and will come to the party with some sort of refund.
I'd also hope the seller does read this and realises that even though he may think he's made a killing, his identity will eventually become public knowledge and he'll come out of this looking a bit ugly unless some sort of action is taken to correct the problems.
I've gotta admit though, I would have been impressed enough by the above photo to go ahead and buy it. I guess it comes back to the trust thing I mentioned earlier.
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Hoony its only a pre70 bike, not eligible for pre 65.
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Brad, I hope the seller is reading these comments and will come to the party with some sort of refund.
I'd also hope the seller does read this and realises that even though he may think he's made a killing, his identity will eventually become public knowledge and he'll come out of this looking a bit ugly unless some sort of action is taken to correct the problems.
I've gotta admit though, I would have been impressed enough by the above photo to go ahead and buy it. I guess it comes back to the trust thing I mentioned earlier.
That is not the bike. It was to show Macca what they look like.
This is the bike.
(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/CZ360Twinport005.jpg)
(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/CZ360Twinport011.jpg)
(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/CZ360Twinport011.jpg)
(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/CZ360Twinport001.jpg)
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Hoony its only a pre70 bike, not eligible for pre 65.
Thanks Dave, i know Brad was looking for a pre 65 bike with lhs shift some time back and as i know very little of CZ models i asked the question.
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yeah i would be disappointed as well, is this a pre 65 eligible bike? and does it have a left hand shift ?
It's a pre 70 mate and yes, all CZ's are left hand gear change. I can't ride the other way.
I did answer your question mate if you missed it.
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Brad, I hope the seller is reading these comments and will come to the party with some sort of refund.
With your contacts in Unzud why didn't you get a secound opinion ........
I know. I had an offer too. Just didn't want to bother others and thought I would sort it myself.
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Hopefully his workshop will cave in with the next aftershock... it takes years to build a good reputation and 5 seconds to loose it.... the VMX world is very small.... I'm sure he's reading this too...come on bro..coff up.
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Hey Sir Bradalot,
have you had any joy yet from my South Island mate???
Scratch that I have found the sellers side of the story on the livewire forum as copied below:
Brad over to you old mate.
"As most of you are aware there has been some talk in the last week about the problems you can get from buying or in my case selling a 45 year old dirt bike to some who can’t view it,or is overseas.
This is what happened to me when I recently sold a 45 year old un restored CZ to a well known rider in Australia.
The bike was never for sale or advertised as it had been in the family for approx 19 years so there was no intention to sell it (to make a killing as someone said) till I got a phone call from someone in Queensland who had been trying to buy a CZ360 twin pipe.
I was asked to describe the bike which I did buy stating the motor had been gone through by someone (not me) about 6-8 years ago when I got the bike . I said it had been ridden once since then & it was ok to ride for displays or demo laps but if you were going to ride it hard or race it, it will need more work . I then had pulled the bike to bits to paint the frame, tank, guards, rebuild the wheels with new rims & spokes , and got new pipes made . I also told him the seat would need to be done, the handle bars were not original and there were some scratches on the guards & tank from sitting around the garage for 6 years and that the ignition would need to be reinstalled as someone had borrowed it to get another CZ going .
I was asked to take pics so I put the bike together so he could see what was there & what was missing . I explained I was not into CZs & could not guarantee the bike was 100% original so I could take more pics if needed. This was done with whatever nuts & bolts I could find at the time as he was in a hurry for the pics with the understanding he was going to strip it down & go over the bike if he brought it.
I sent pics ,got another phone call & he said he had got on to another CZ in Holland but it was going to be expensive & we agreed on a price of 8K Australian & I was to crate & ship the bike from this side & he would sort out the paper work on his
side
Money was deposited, bike crated and he said he needed it quickly as he was going to England to race and wanted it before he left so I arranged to AIR FREIGHT it to him asap
I sent him emails asking if he had got the bike and was happy with it ,then got a shitty reply telling me I had done everything wrong and HE had not filled out government forms on his side and it was going to take 5 weeks to get approved & they were charging him $50 per day storage . He told me he got a final bill for nearly 2K and that it was a sour deal .(this was before he had even got the bike)
and “required” me to give him $1500 back to make things “right”
He was not happy with the extra charges (as I would not be ) caused buy him not getting his paper correct – not my fault, so since he has got the bike he has stripped it down & gone over it looking for everything possibly wrong . It was made clear to him in our first conversation that it was a 45 year old UN RESTORED dirt bike that I started to tidy up 6-8 years ago & it would need work to finish it off or to make it a race bike.
The price paid for the bike was just over $ 8300 Australian & then I had to but the crate & pay for the airfreight out of that
I have offered to refund him the cost of new rims as I did say that I put new rims on when the wheels were rebuilt 6 years ago. It now appears they were very low hour rims of one of my modern bikes that I had polished .mland
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:47 am Top
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mmmmmmmm
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I reckon it is a fair deal, hell bike is 45 years old, you have to be realistic about what you expect, you get a real peach, or maybe not but finally as the buyer you have top make the call.
I mean it is a CZ, so the motor could have been like that from the factory ::)
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hey brad what part of unzud was it from?
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I know a fellow here in victoria pay $5000 for a complete basket case cz 360 twinport, and that was about 12 years ago or more and it is still a baskets case rotting on his dirt floor in his shed. What are worried about brad just be gratefull that you have the pair, l bought a twinport 250 from new zealand and it was junk paid good money for too, stop whinging and enjoy it.
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Christchurch......he's obviously not religous....and even tells lie's....maybe lightning will strike him down.
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Selling bikes can be as dangerous as buying them. I hate selling bikes incase it goes pairshaped, i alwasy sell them as what you see is what you get, and i have no idea whats going on inside. IF i know more i say so, but take the thats the price you make up your own mind, as i dont have x ray glasses.
IF i bought a bike i take the stand its up to me to look real close at the pics and ask all the questions, been caught once, cause he didnt know the differance and i didnt ask the question so now i ask and ask. if i miss it its my fault, if the seller isnt a train spotter on that model its my fault if i dont get lotsa pics - if how ever they stick in broken gears, parts or knowingly cover shit up then thats there fault and i get cranky.
Not knowing the value of these bikes im in no position to say at what point is a fair deal for both parties, there is a line in the $$$$ and then a bit either way as to a fair value. when it shift too far from that line, i think its a bit of a unfair bang up if the seller profiters or the buyer profiteers.
its a balance thats for sure and needs to be a 2 way street.
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Hi Brad
Here are some pics of the CZ, sorry they are not that good & it is also
covered in dust from sitting in the garage for a few years.
Like I said eairler the wheels have been rebuilt with new alloy rims &
spokes , the motor has been gone through (about 8 years ago) and it has been
ridden once since ,it is ok to ride but if you were going to race it hard it
may need more work .
Tanks & frame have been repainted as have the guards alough they do have
some scratches on them fron being in the garage . It has new pipes on & also
the old ones are there & it looks like the original carb is in the parts box
The bike will need the ignition put back on as it was removed to get another
360 going & then I have never got round to putting it back on the bike
The bike will also need assembleing better as I have only placed alot on
parts on the bike to take the pics
Spare parts include a clutch, crank cases, gear box parts old cables ,ect
To get the bike up & running it will take more time than $$
$ 8000 AU
I can arrange shipping or deliver the bike to anywhere in Christchurch as
long as you pay for the shipping
Cheers Daryl
This is the exact email with all spelling mistakes etc. Copy and paste. No mention of seat, shocks, forks condition or that its a bike that needs restoring.
Again , "To get the bike up & running it will take more time than $$"
"The bike will also need assembleing better as I have only placed alot on
parts on the bike to take the pics"
On the here say front, I initially contacted him by phone and one thing that was said was that the engine was reconditioned. I stated that I will be racing it which then prompted him to say in the email "the motor has been gone through (about 8 years ago) and it has been
ridden once since ,it is ok to ride but if you were going to race it hard it
may need more work ".
This motor is in need of a complete rebuild as my pictures show clearly plus repairs.
Again he has offered me a set of SM pro rims as he stated it had new rims but does not. Big f#$king deal.
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I know a fellow here in victoria pay $5000 for a complete basket case cz 360 twinport, and that was about 12 years ago or more and it is still a baskets case rotting on his dirt floor in his shed. What are worried about brad just be gratefull that you have the pair, l bought a twinport 250 from new zealand and it was junk paid good money for too, stop whinging and enjoy it.
I know of a few guys that paid through the nose or got a bad deal. So because you got a bad deal every body else has to swallow it? Bet you would have a whinge in peoples ears about a bad deal you got. The difference is I got out of my comfort zone to tell everyone what this guy has done to me (us).
This bike will be rebuilt and ridden.
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the shocks look differant in the fotos to the ones you show....
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the shocks look differant in the fotos to the ones you show....
No, they are the same. They are off a '77 cr125 or 250. But rooted.
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Brad,looks like the facts are clear,sorry about this happening to you mate,hope it doesnt sour your opinion of us sheep shaggers too much.
Craig
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brad this back and forward shit will get you no were ,he said she said ,just remember the bike will be worth 15 plus k when finished
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;) do you take trade ins
Oh piss off :D
Thanks Craig and all the others that have replied.
I know Paul , its all bitching and shit but I decided he wasn't going to get away with ripping my Dad off and am prepared to tell the world.
If I hadn't done this, he would have slinked away rubbing his hands and not heard about it again and there would be whispers behind his back. I will make him feel as uncomfortable as possible. I hope to meet him some day.
I still have the U.S and U.K to go :)
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Bottom line for me is that is someone says the engine has been 'rebuilt' i dont pay any attention to that unless they have reciepts of proof of work done to it etc, even then i would still be stripping it to check its up to my standard anyway. I always assume no matter what the seller says, that it will still need completely re-doing and is piece of mind for me anyway. I have also seen heaps of guys get burned on bikes that have been described as being rebuilt/good condition etc and look good in the photos and then the bike turns out to be a total lemon. That happened to a guy i know when he bought a Triton interstate for 8G or what ever it was. So many things wrong with it and had to be re-done and hes probably paid another 8G on top of that to get it fixed and hes still not finished with it yet. I am not taking sides but it was good to see the sellers point of view and that made me see things differently to what i initally did, but its good that Brad announced it on here just so the seller didnt think he could hide from it but i still understand his point of view saying it was a 45 yr old bike.
What i would like to know is how much $ value is a CZ like this worth just for the rarity/special/desirable factor of the bike? Would you be paying $2000 or $3000 in the total price straigt up first, just for the 'rarity/desirability' factor? Someone above said someone payed $5000 for a rough old basket case so it seems they are really highly valued even just for that so maybe 8G isnt too bad afterall? I have no idea about these models but from what i gather, you just dont see one of these rock up for sale on ebay or at a swapmeet every month or so and we are not talking CR250's or RM400's etc here.
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I reckon it is a fair deal, hell bike is 45 years old, you have to be realistic about what you expect, you get a real peach, or maybe not but finally as the buyer you have top make the call.
I mean it is a CZ, so the motor could have been like that from the factory ::)
Maybe you think its a fair deal. The point of all of this bitch is;
Did he say the shocks are rooted?...NO
'' '' '' '' motor was rooted ....NO
'' '' '' '' forks were rooted ....NO
'' '' '' '' seat was rooted ......NO
" " " " Controls were rooted...NO
DID HE SAY IT NEEDED MORE TIME THAN $$ to get it running......YES.
And since when does the age of a bike have anything to do with it?
The same situation can happen with a bike twelve months old. One flogged to death and another hardly ridden.
If I had been informed of the faults and still bought it, no contest.
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Brad, l feel for you mate, l would be so pissed off, as l was with my twin port, so l sold it,but l was so clear about the condition of it at the time, the new owner was find about it. My twin port cost my a cool 4500 dollars at the time.
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brad
my cz400 was totaly rooted when i got it no ididnt pay 8000 for it but it is fine now.as paul says when you and your dad are finished it will be worth 15k.i dont belive people who say motor rebuilt and still the price is on the cheepish side for a 1965 open motorcrosser.when i buy things how i expect total engine rebuilds.
jim
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As most of you are aware I am the person that has sold the CZ360 to Brad . I had to wait for my OZ forum account to be activated before I was able to post on here although I did put a response to Brads comments on VMX Livewire which someone had also posted on this forum. Although I am new to this forum I have been involved with VMX in NZ & Australia since 1994.
Like Paul said it is pointless to get into a back & forward “he said, she said” argument on a forum site & I also do not have time for that, but I feel some things need to be brought out in the open.
The bike has never been restored, and I did not say it had been. I did say I started to tidy it up 6-8 years ago but had never finished it off as there was never any intention to sell or race it. I did not have the advertised or did I tell people it was for sale.
I did not tell Brad the motor was reconditioned, why would I say it was reconditioned & then say it would need more work if you were going to race it ?.
We never talked about the forks or shocks & Brad never asked about them, they are the same forks & shocks that were in the pics.
In the first phone conversation I had with Brad I said the seat still needed doing & that the handle bars were not original.
The controls were rubbish when I got the bike (plastic throttle & broken lever) these also were in the pics I sent Brad.
As people who are involved with VMX will know, there is a big difference between a 45 year old dirt bike that has not been restored ( this was made very clear to Brad in our first phone conversation) & a bike that is race ready. I gave a honest description of the bike(to the best of my knowledge) & would have been happy to take more photos or answer more questions if asked.
I did offer to refund some money for the rims & also said I would try to help with the storage fees if I could ( these fees were from Brad not filling out the correct paperwork on his side)
Regards
Daryl Poulsen
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hey Daryl,
you are dead right, any 45 year old bike is going to need going over and you said that. Key issue is did you misrepresent it as immaculate and it appears not.
As a buyer you expect that when you buy, sometimes you get lucky when you open them up and others not. Pony up cost of doing business.
As for the importation costs that is down to the importer to have their paperwork sorted. Unless for some reason you with held the commercial invoice and delayed clearance form your side.
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Thanks Marc
The shipping & paper work was all ok on this side. It was in Australia where the problems started.
It is a shame things like this happen as it leaves a sour taste in everyones mouth.
DP
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ive sold and bought bikes and bits from brad over a period of time and ive always found him to be truthfull and honest in his dealings and i have no reason to doubt what he says
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Thanks Marc
The shipping & paper work was all ok on this side. It was in Australia where the problems started.
It is a shame things like this happen as it leaves a sour taste in everyones mouth.
DP
Then it becomes the importers issue and cost for not doing their homework on how to carry out the clearance.
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the motor has been gone through (about 8 years ago) and it has been
ridden once since ,it is ok to ride but if you were going to race it hard it
may need more work .
After seeing the photo's of the engine I cant possible see how that engine would have started and ran the seal on the head cant have held compression.
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Well belive it or not the motor ran fine. I only rode it in about 2 races but preferred to ride my other bikes. I did not go through the motor myself & I was not aware the head had been repaired. I am not a CZ expert. I acquired as a family bike
DP
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Well belive it or not the motor ran fine. I only rode it in about 2 races but preferred to ride my other bikes. I did not go through the motor myself & I was not aware the head had been repaired. I am not a CZ expert. I acquired as a family bike
DP
You now have the benefit of knowing what the engine condition really is as you clearly see in the photos. Now with the benefit of hindsight you could opt to reimburse for some of the repair costs?
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Brad new the engine was going to need work. Did he think he was buying a new bike. At the end of the day he paid me 8K for a very rear CZ that someone has said is worth about 15K when it is restored. Maybe he should have asked more questions or got me to take more pics of the bike before he brought it.
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If I had of known the head had a repair I would have replaced it with a spare head I had at that time. The spare head & cylinder were swapped for a set of new pipes about 12 years ago with a well known collector in Auckland. We never recieved the pipes & could not get back the cylinder or head so I had to get another set of pipes made
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You now have the benefit of knowing what the engine condition really is as you clearly see in the photos. Now with the benefit of hindsight you could opt to reimburse for some of the repair costs?
[/quote]
Good try .... go get that deal on anything ..... hell its not like you can get that deal on a brand new competition bike let alone a 45 year old one/
I usually buy in Aussie or the States, Kiwi bikes tend to have finally ended up down on the farm until they rot out. I also find the NZ stuff gets more buggered and shonky the further South you get.
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One way to look at this problem...and it is a problem....the bike was sold in good faith knowing that it would require SOME repairs, as it turned out the bike, is a shitbox (to put it mildly), in particular the engine has had some very sub-standard repairs (it's a shame to be a kiwi when you see work like that). There are in fact alot more repairs required than Brad has stated, now wether DP new this we dont know and the fact is who ever dodgeed up the the engine would have told the owner wether it was DP at the time or his "relative" he got it off. Now DP, your not a wobbler and have been around bikes along time, you would have known that bike was a dunger when you rode it so dont try to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. Now that you have seen the inside of the engine and it's sad state how about in good faith you give Brad what he's asking? If the fact that the engine has been "dodgeed" up is a surprise to you, why dont you go back to your "relative" and get a "please explain"....We all make mistakes and some are not our fault, sometimes we have to compromise, sometimes we have to put it down to bad experiance, but in this case I think a wrongs been done and needs to be rectified....the balls totaly in your court DP.
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Another question DP, can you answer your email where you stated "bike will require more TIME than MONEY spent on it"......you wrote it!!
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Davey
This thing could go forward & back for weeks. I see in a one of your posts you wanted to know where I was from, I have put my name on here so everyone knows who I am. Since I am new to this forum you may want to make yourself known & where you are from to me so I know who I am dealing with, or are you someone that hides behind a false name but makes lots of comments
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The engine work was not carried out by my father, it was by a retired motorcycle mechanic.
Since the bike has been in my family (about 17- 19 years) it would not have done more than 1 hours work. It broke a gear lever or kickstart shaft the second time my father tried to ride it & sat in the shed for the next 10 - 12 years
I rode the bike for 2 races at a flattrack(grasstarck) meeting a long time ago & I decided I would rather ride my other bikes.
It ran fine, as far as power goes ,it was the first time I had rode a CZ & a 1965 one at that, so I had nothing else to compare it to ( they are not that common)
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I said it would take more time than $$ to get the bike running as I had rode the bike before it was pulled to bits
There is a big difference between getting the bike running and making it race ready
Like I said in a eairler post I do not have time to sit in front of a computer answering questions on a forum all day
Cheers DP
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Thanks Marc
The shipping & paper work was all ok on this side. It was in Australia where the problems started.
It is a shame things like this happen as it leaves a sour taste in everyones mouth.
DP
Then it becomes the importers issue and cost for not doing their homework on how to carry out the clearance.
This part has nothing at all to do with the misreprentation of the bikes condition during the sale process and brad realization upon inspection that the bike wasnt to the standard that was agreed upon at purchase
and btw mark werent you recently sooking about being ripped off for a frame that didnt arrive and give the seller a burn in public .in this thread theres a copy off the email that was sent and its obvious that darrell is just pussy footing around the truth
read it again
Hi Brad
Here are some pics of the CZ, sorry they are not that good & it is also
covered in dust from sitting in the garage for a few years.
Like I said eairler the wheels have been rebuilt with new alloy rims &
spokes , the motor has been gone through (about 8 years ago) and it has been
ridden once since ,it is ok to ride but if you were going to race it hard it
may need more work .
Tanks & frame have been repainted as have the guards alough they do have
some scratches on them fron being in the garage . It has new pipes on & also
the old ones are there & it looks like the original carb is in the parts box
The bike will need the ignition put back on as it was removed to get another
360 going & then I have never got round to putting it back on the bike
The bike will also need assembleing better as I have only placed alot on
parts on the bike to take the pics
Spare parts include a clutch, crank cases, gear box parts old cables ,ect
To get the bike up & running it will take more time than $$
$ 8000 AU
I can arrange shipping or deliver the bike to anywhere in Christchurch as
long as you pay for the shipping
Cheers Daryl
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and btw mark werent you recently sooking about being ripped off for a frame that didnt arrive and give the seller a burn in public [/quote]
There was no sooking about it you pillow biter, I paid for frame from C&J and they made blatant rip off not just on me but other people trading on Jeff Coles good name. So blatant rip off versus various interpretations of the description.... goods still arrived so I would rather the NZ deal any time.
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The engine work was not carried out by my father, it was by a retired motorcycle mechanic.
Since the bike has been in my family (about 17- 19 years) it would not have done more than 1 hours work. It broke a gear lever or kickstart shaft the second time my father tried to ride it & sat in the shed for the next 10 - 12 years
I rode the bike for 2 races at a flattrack(grasstarck) meeting a long time ago & I decided I would rather ride my other bikes.
It ran fine, as far as power goes ,it was the first time I had rode a CZ & a 1965 one at that, so I had nothing else to compare it to ( they are not that common)
It's amazing how much you can/ can't recall depending on the argument regarding the engine rebuild etc. A mechanic did not "go through" that motor. No way. Two crank seals, not even new gaskets were used.
As far as saying you don't have anything to compare it to , what a crock. Compare it to any big bore bike.
hey Daryl,
you are dead right, any 45 year old bike is going to need going over and you said that. Key issue is did you misrepresent it as immaculate and it appears not.
As a buyer you expect that when you buy, sometimes you get lucky when you open them up and others not. Pony up cost of doing business.
As for the importation costs that is down to the importer to have their paperwork sorted. Unless for some reason you with held the commercial invoice and delayed clearance form your side.
Great post, except that the facts seem to have been missed completely.
Not any 45 year old bike needs to be gone over. The other bike in Holland was perfect. So to, other bikes no matter what age, some are junk, some are fair and others are pristine.
I expected to spend money on this bike. I expected some work to be done on the motor but also expected it to be in reasonable condition due to being told that the motor has been gone through.
I also expected not to have to fork out so much more money when I was told it needs more time than dollars to get it running.
I see your play on words too Daryl by saying that by what you were saying, just to get it to start rather than to finish the bike. Nice. Took a few weeks to think that one up but well done. I know I always want a bike to just fire and er job done.
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and btw mark werent you recently sooking about being ripped off for a frame that didnt arrive and give the seller a burn in public
There was no sooking about it you pillow biter, I paid for frame from C&J and they made blatant rip off not just on me but other people trading on Jeff Coles good name. So blatant rip off versus various interpretations of the description.... goods still arrived so I would rather the NZ deal any time.
[/quote]
your sooking went on for months so brad not allowed to complain about something he bought in good faith just the same as you did
whats a pillow biter btw is that what you say to your boy friend
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whats a pillow biter btw is that what you say to your boy friend
[/quote]
nah but my boyfriend mentioned you squealed like a girl on the reach around ;)
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Thanks Marc
The shipping & paper work was all ok on this side. It was in Australia where the problems started.
It is a shame things like this happen as it leaves a sour taste in everyones mouth.
DP
Then it becomes the importers issue and cost for not doing their homework on how to carry out the clearance.
Absolutely Marc. And as I have said a few times (which is making me think you are not reading any of my posts) that it was my problem. I have also said I was pissed off at Daryl as he has imported to Oz many times and I said GREAT! I will be leaning on you to help me so I don't make a mistake which means $$. A heads up and' this is what to do'. I didn't get any help. I have never done this before. He dumped it and ran. I have stated this all before. It is also irrelevant to the condition of the bike and MISrepresentation .
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Absolutely Marc. And as I have said a few times (which is making me think you are not reading any of my posts) that it was my problem. [/quote]
Yeah its a shame you lost money, especially when it is paying the storage rip off when you can't clear the consignment.
Sorry for being a dick, as of course nobody likes to feel like they have been had.
I guess if the building the motor up is not too horrific you can at least be comfortable in knowing what you have got.
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No, not too horrific. Just the dollars associated with a complete rebuild plus repairs to head, seal carrier on crank and extra machining on crank with having to use a different rod. That will drain the bank account. We will get there in the end. And it will get about on the track.
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For interest sake, here is the other bike from Holland. 6500 euro which at the moment is $9200au
A good example of a 45 year old bike that needs nothing.
Still a bit away from the 15K.
(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/CZ360Twinport006holland.jpg)
(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/CZ360Twinport007holland.jpg)
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No, not too horrific. Just the dollars associated with a complete rebuild plus repairs to head, seal carrier on crank and extra machining on crank with having to use a different rod. That will drain the bank account. We will get there in the end. And it will get about on the track.
You're a legend; that's the attitude, 'The Cream will Raise to the Top' 8). I look forward to seeing the beast complete and in it all it's old knobby communist charm :D.
The sad thing here is you couldn't rely on a fellow enthusiast's judgment or description.
I'll make it a point to seek out a Czech Pilsner 8) and bring it to CD8 to help you drown your sorrow in retrospect and celebrate your new ride :).
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Gee brad, are you rich and born with a silver spoon, or have you won tattslotto buying 2 360 cz, raced in England, crop dusting must be a good year.
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I would say to the few that are putting a price (value) on the finished resto that it's hardly the point. More to the point is that it would seem that Brad has been burgled.
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Brad , compare the work shops ;) need I say anymore.
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Gee brad, are you rich and born with a silver spoon, or have you won tattslotto buying 2 360 cz, raced in England, crop dusting must be a good year.
Well my Dad owns the tp360, the side pipe 360,side pipe 250 and we both own the two twin pipe 250's together. The only one I own that started the fetish is my '74 400.
Not rich, just flog my guts out every day, spend money that's not mine and owe heaps. ::)
Brad , compare the work shops ;) need I say anymore.
:D
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What it is potentially worth isn't the point, it is always a risk buying something from another country and there is a fair bit of trust required. From the info provided I think Brad is well within his rights to be PEEED off. If you can have a man on the ground to inspect things first hand is probably the best advice.
Good luck, I'm sure you'll do it justice.
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And l totally agree, we are also in the same floating or sinking boat, and l have personally experienced being ripped off on some of my dealings and one was my KTM 125 GS, rode it for 10 min and the engine shit itself and l was told by the owner the engine was rebuilt, the other was my twinport cz and the other was my 67 husky, ripped off with freight $3015, its a bastered when it happens, but we need to move on.
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Yeah Oldfarts right just look at the workshop and those tasty bikes in the background.There are obviously benefits to living in Europe and collecting/restoring early VMX bikes so on balance you'd reckon this would be a good thing,but I probably would have gone for the NZ bike as well just because of the location and what you reckon would be a relatively easy task of getting it here(which proved not to be the case).Worth the money???Probably not now but in a year or two when you're blitzing at the pre 70 open nationals I reckon it might.Cheers Brad,say g'day to your Dad.Biddabadda this weekend?
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say g'day to your Dad.Biddabadda this weekend?
Thanks I will Paul and only Saturday night for the AGM.
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say g'day to your Dad.Biddabadda this weekend?
Thanks I will Paul and only Saturday night for the AGM.
2011 track designer now that you've seen Farleigh!! ;)
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[/quote]
2011 track designer now that you've seen Farleigh!! ;)
[/quote]
If that's a YES, I might have to move to Queensland :o :o Again !!!! ::) ::) (And I thought never again :-\ :-\ :-\)
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well dave i have to tell u this that ktm complianced 1/81 gs 125 that u swapped me for the tm125 that u wanted i brought it home drained the very oily mixture out of the tank that a lot of us witnessed at harrow the smoke trail noticed the choke was still on probably after exccessive kicking after u thought it shit the engine threw the plug in bin fitted new one had no spark so fitted new flywheel key and wouldnt you know it it started 4th kick and its fine maybe a little down on compression nothing a ring wouldnt fix but it certainly doesnt need a full rebuild so dave the reason i have posted this is so when i sell the bike which it is for sale $2200 everyone thinks maybe it been patched up or whatever and ask lots of questions before buying or bidding as we all know its been on ebay more times than i have been to melbourne. so dave get your facts straight first and get a new mechanic before telling everyone about a bike that u dont own anymore that there was not much wrong with in the first place ....!!!
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Which is what Dave was told in the first place but he seemed to have decided it was a dud without looking into it properly or just checking the basics. The previous owner was pretty pissed that Dave was bagging a solid bike and by implication questioning the sellers integrity.
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there is a risk in buying os i have bought over 30 bikes this year 3 of which where fkd 2 wernt too bad new piston on a rm 250c,seized yamaha,1972cr 450 husky crank,gearbox and clutch if any one has a gearbox let me know,so that is a 10% failure rate.i have 50 bikes coming so i expect 5 of them to not as described.yes i get someone to check them but again this is stuff that has been sitting around and was cheap enough not 8000k.we go thru the bikes as best as we can,i dont pull them down if they run good,change gear have to assume they are ok.i do try to send them ready to ride reco shocks,tryes if needed ,airfilters.ie i sold a SC500 to a guy in melbourne it was rattly but i did tell so. did the deal if i was able to find parts found the parts and waved the bike goodbye.some things you cant see afterall most of these things are 25;45 yrs old,but as an example i had a GT750 SUZUKI for sale looked brilliant in the pics i had to put in the add it didnt look no where as good as the pics and was sold under those conditions,my favourite add on ebay is pics form the description ??? maybe brad didnt ask about the forks but should of been informed about what wasnt asked about. it wasnt like he was buying a $500 shitter which you expect to be a shitter tho sometimes you get suprised.when i did my dealers lic course it tells you that you can well have litary license -that official term is puffery ;D ie this is the best mx bike ever and if you buy it you will win every race-you can say in my opinion it is the best ever etc but you cant tell blatant lies or decieve the buyer with cover ups or omissions. i have sold bikes where we have discovered some isnt right after use i will at least offer the parts for cost price.or throw in a seyt of tryes or something
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hey brad,
i bought a 500 husky off a bloke that thinks he is a big husky guru on this forum. quoted me that is was "race ready immaculate" etc. when it arrived, the air filter crumbled in my hands, needed rings etc. i took photos of what did not match his description and when i spoke to him about it, i got the " its a 27 year old bike what do you expect".
i feel for you though. i bet you wish he was in aust so you could give him a little slap.
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i feel for you though. i bet you wish he was in aust so you could give him a little slap.
Its only a three hour flight away. I will certainly be over there again some time with the offers and good blokes over that way.
There might be an 'international incident!'
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Cant even go on Livewire and check out the latest gossip.....there infected by a virus....dogdee kiwi's...probably a CeeZee head cold or something. ;D
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I suspect all the negative energy has melted the poor old thing....
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;) do you take trade ins
Oh piss off :D
Thanks Craig and all the others that have replied.
I know Paul , its all bitching and shit but I decided he wasn't going to get away with ripping my Dad off and am prepared to tell the world.
If I hadn't done this, he would have slinked away rubbing his hands and not heard about it again and there would be whispers behind his back. I will make him feel as uncomfortable as possible. I hope to meet him some day.
I still have the U.S and U.K to go :)
read and logged brad.
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http://livewire.gen.nz/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1655&p=5885#p5885 (http://livewire.gen.nz/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1655&p=5885#p5885)
Just one last statement as I just did on the kiwi site.
I stated that Daryl Poulsen is a moral less c@#t. ;)