79 CR250 Front End Conversion

[William Doe]

So can I fit conventional forks from a 1998 RM 250 to my 1979 RM 250 ? I will fabricate a bracket to hold the front brake backing plate and bolt it to the caliper mounts .

Bill, short no as you need to make a bracket for it to fit. That would be covered by the fact that you have modified to fit and not OEM, also you cannot run disk brake on evo as it states this clearly in the rules.

That is what make the Honda (in the case of the 79) legal as you do not have to modify anything. The thing that came up earlier about fitting 500 engines to the 79 is also a joke as you would need to modify the engine mounts (and most off all the frame) to fit these and that is also against the current and proposed rules. The rule states that engines and gearbox must remain externally unchanged as I am entering a 79 CR 250 the engine would have to be a 78 or 79 CR 250 and not a 450 or 480 engine as these differ, for that point I can't even fit a 80 CR 250 engine as the barrel differs.

As for the rule changes I am not sure as to why these are being put forward. Evo has works well for the last 10 years with the current rules and I see no reason to change them.

No one has yet pointed out to me as to how I am reading my interpretation of the rule wrong. Not there point of view but how it is wrong via the current rules?

I am not trying to shit stir I was answering a question that was asked at the start of this thread and as usual all the so call experts have put in their two bobs worth without looking at the facts.

I am not going to post again on this topic as I have covered and expanded all my points of view. I did say about 8 pages ago this thread should be put to bead as it has turned out like the last thread pre the nats.

I will beg to differ with some of you on here as it is your point of view and you are entitled to it.

Shane Wilson

Thanks Shane , im still not convinced though as the parts are Suzuki OEM and I will have to change the head stem as you do on the Honda forks and make a billet bracket to bolt on to hold the backing plate .

The bracket is no different to those fitted to Simons or Fox forks built for Euro bikes that have to have a brake stay fitted 

[Ted]

Shane
         How did your 79 CR 250 go at scrutineering at the recent Echo Valley Nats

Did it just breeze through and ran in EVO 250

[supersenior 50]

Halalulya !! This debate is going nowhere and getting sillier by the minute. Ted if you want to design and have manufactured USD forks or whatever, and pay for it, if you think that gets around the "modified" barrier then go for it.
Be interesting to see who of these advocates picking at a rule that has served us well and never been challenged at a Nats, actually compete as a rider at full on VMX events. Even more relevant is how many ride in the Evolution Class. Having narrowed it significantly, how many genuine riders who actually compete in Ausralia in the Evo Class, have real issues with the current rule, or feel disadvantaged by it.
What is clear,is that with the nitpicking of some of the armchair heroes on this forum, no set of rules would survive their scrutiny. I do not include the clear thinking positive contribuitions made by some who genuinely want to support and improve our sport in the above comments.
What is also clear is the damage to the sport these uproars cause. Every Nats is preceded by this forum going ape over something or other, and it's getting worse. I've personally been contacted by three people thinking of getting into Evo who are having second thoughts because of this thread.
Just in the past three years, in which I've been involved in running three Nats and one Qld title, as much time and energy has been putting out these scrub fires as actually on the event itself. In each instant it has all amounted to nothing on the day.

[JohnnyO]

Shane
         How did your 79 CR 250 go at scrutineering at the recent Echo Valley Nats

Did it just breeze through and ran in EVO 250

It would have had he entered, a 79 KX250 with 83 YZ forks went straight through scrutineering in front of me no problem!!
Several people were put off entering because of all the noise qvmx people made on here saying their forks were illegal and they would be knocked back from riding in Evo..

[foxy999]

There was  only one person with the power to say yes or no on that bike john, not the clubs response ability at that level . Yet a 1989 cr 500 was pulled up with later forks and the owner changed them over so he could ride the event No problems.  Once people start using the clubs name I will respond to the post . Most people with in  the area we live are in both clubs qvmx and bmcc.  All this bs started a while back from a person that didn't even ride the event .  Go figure

[GMC]

Some of you are quick to bag forum members or non riders but the problem lies with the vagueness of the interpretation of the era of Evo and that's not the fault of those that question it.

[Husky500evo]

      It seems to me that some people on this forum , like Davey Crocket and Ted, are like the Taliban of VMX. They have their own extremist interpretation of the rules, that is like Sharia law. Anyone who does not agree with their pedantic ideas of the rules are regarded as infidels, or "cheats". What bugs me is Taliban Ted repeatedly claims that he is speaking for majority, when most people that I talk to, that race in Evo class, don't agree with him. Maybe I mix in the wrong circles ?  This sport is not Moto GP and is supposed to be about having fun on old bikes, but if I was a newcomer and considering getting started in Evo class, I would be having second thoughts after reading the numerous threads like this. All of the arguements are only over minor wording of the rules.   
      I first got interested in this class of racing, after watching Geoff Holmes, John Kittle, Roy Gay and others riding in the twinshock class at the '96 Conondale Thumpernats round. I thought that it was a great concept , with basically 3 simple rules - being air-cooled motor , drum brakes and non-linkage suspension. I came back and rode my '84 Husky 500 in the '97 Conondale  Thumpernats round,  had a ball and have been racing Evo class on either '84 Huskys or '81 Maicos ever since. I have no problem with anyone in this class using any conventional front end that originally came fitted with drum brakes.     

[William Doe]

Its amusing that apparently all that is said on this forum is wind and piss by quote "armchair heroes" and has no relevance in the real world where there are no problems  , yet comments on here are detrimental to the sport , go figure 

Quote "Be interesting to see who of these advocates picking at a rule that has served us well and never been challenged at a Nats, actually compete as a rider at full on VMX events. Even more relevant is how many ride in the Evolution Class. Having narrowed it significantly, how many genuine riders who actually compete in Ausralia in the Evo Class, have real issues with the current rule, or feel disadvantaged by it."

Good point  perhaps Graeme could narrow the right of reply to those fit the above criteria or maybe take it a step further and only allow comments from close associates of commissioners and other officials and others who agree with them 

Quote " Some of you are quick to bag forum members or non riders but the problem lies with the vagueness of the interpretation of the era of Evo and that's not the fault of those that question it"

Spot on Geoff  .


Quote "It seems to me that some people on this forum , like Davey Crocket and Ted, are like the Taliban of VMX"

Osama bin Brack and Ayatollah Tate 

[FourstrokeForever]

Fair dinkum Ted....you'd point holes in a donut! And to all the others who have followed on with Ted and his ridiculous mindless arguments and interpretations, have you even read the proposed set of rules?

I went to the effort of attempting to have a set of rules without any ambiguity as to what is and what isn't allowed in Evolution class racing. I even asked for the discussion to remain positive and to ad suggestions. Seems there is no keeping some people happy even though they agree the rules are very open to various interpretations.

Here are the proposed rules again. Amendments are highlighted in RED

1) Frame must be of ORIGINAL Manufacture twin shock design. Yamaha non linkage "monoshock" design is allowed. After market twin shock Replica era frames are allowed.
1b) NO re-engineering of linkage design frames converted to twin rear shocks in an attempt to comply are allowed.

2) Any fork, to a maximum of 44mm stanchion is allowed.
2a) Forks must be of ORIGINAL manufacture drum brake design.
2b) NO re-engineering of disc brake design forks in an attempt to comply are allowed.
2c) All forks must be of conventional type. NO USD forks are allowed
3) Brakes must be drum type, front and rear. No disc brakes.

4) Any Engine MUST be Aircooled and be from an original twin shock motocross/enduro frame motor cycle. Engines from Yamaha non linkage "monoshock" motocross/enduro frame motorcycles are allowed.
4b) Engines can be of Four or Two stroke design.

5) Replica after market swing arms are allowed.
 
6) Handle bars must be 7/8th cross bar design fitted with a protection pad.
6a) NO fat bar design handle bar is allowed.

7) Footpegs must be of the folding type with a self returning mechanism.

A chain guide/guard must be utilised and cover the point of chain return onto the rear drive sprocket.

9) All motorcycles must have an effective muffler/silencer fitted.


This is NOT about the CR Honda's. This is about trying to make a clear and concise set of rules to STOP all the BS that goes on just before National events and letting all concerned know, in black and white, what is and what isn't allowed. Regardless of what has been accepted as kosher in the past, there are still those that get their collective noses out of joint and make the current rules into whatever they see them to be.

[JohnnyO]

There was  only one person with the power to say yes or no on that bike john, not the clubs response ability at that level . Yet a 1989 cr 500 was pulled up with later forks and the owner changed them over so he could ride the event No problems.  Once people start using the clubs name I will respond to the post . Most people with in  the area we live are in both clubs qvmx and bmcc.  All this bs started a while back from a person that didn't even ride the event .  Go figure

Brian he didn't ride the event because a qvmx member told him he would not be allowed to ride Evo with those front forks.
I will state the facts as they were and there was a lot of noise behind the scene that Dave Tanner was going to be replaced as Chief Scrutineer so no one knew where they stood with bike eligibility!
Last thing I want is to argue with you Brian but there are plenty of qld vmx riders pissed with the way things have been handled..

[JohnnyO]

Fair dinkum Ted....you'd point holes in a donut! And to all the others who have followed on with Ted and his ridiculous mindless arguments and interpretations, have you even read the proposed set of rules?

I went to the effort of attempting to have a set of rules without any ambiguity as to what is and what isn't allowed in Evolution class racing. I even asked for the discussion to remain positive and to ad suggestions. Seems there is no keeping some people happy even though they agree the rules are very open to various interpretations.

Here are the proposed rules again. Amendments are highlighted in RED

1) Frame must be of ORIGINAL Manufacture twin shock design. Yamaha non linkage "monoshock" design is allowed. After market twin shock Replica era frames are allowed.
1b) NO re-engineering of linkage design frames converted to twin rear shocks in an attempt to comply are allowed.

2) Any fork, to a maximum of 44mm stanchion is allowed.
2a) Forks must be of ORIGINAL manufacture drum brake design.
2b) NO re-engineering of disc brake design forks in an attempt to comply are allowed.
2c) All forks must be of conventional type. NO USD forks are allowed
3) Brakes must be drum type, front and rear. No disc brakes.

4) Any Engine MUST be Aircooled and be from an original twin shock motocross/enduro frame motor cycle. Engines from Yamaha non linkage "monoshock" motocross/enduro frame motorcycles are allowed.
4b) Engines can be of Four or Two stroke design.

5) Replica after market swing arms are allowed.
 
6) Handle bars must be 7/8th cross bar design fitted with a protection pad.
6a) NO fat bar design handle bar is allowed.

7) Footpegs must be of the folding type with a self returning mechanism.

A chain guide/guard must be utilised and cover the point of chain return onto the rear drive sprocket.

9) All motorcycles must have an effective muffler/silencer fitted.


This is NOT about the CR Honda's. This is about trying to make a clear and concise set of rules to STOP all the BS that goes on just before National events and letting all concerned know, in black and white, what is and what isn't allowed. Regardless of what has been accepted as kosher in the past, there are still those that get their collective noses out of joint and make the current rules into whatever they see them to be.

Mate I like your rules and it looks like we need some in depth rules such as these to stop punters finding loop holes..

[Ted]

Keep pissing in your mates pocket, you'll eventually convince him it's raining

Our submissions are in, are yours?

[JohnnyO]

Who are you talking to Ted?

[FourstrokeForever]

Brian he didn't ride the event because a qvmx member told him he would not be allowed to ride Evo with those front forks.
I will state the facts as they were and there was a lot of noise behind the scene that Dave Tanner was going to be replaced as Chief Scrutineer so no one knew where they stood with bike eligibility!
Last thing I want is to argue with you Brian but there are plenty of qld vmx riders pissed with the way things have been handled..

And I also chose not to go to my first Evolution title event because of being told that my CR's front end would be knocked back. The fact that the bloke I was going with to share costs of travel got injured beforehand, and wasn't able to go, added fuel to that fire.

I have been bagged on here for attempting to clarify the rules regarding Evolution. I even used all the information from those that have been around the Evo class since it's inception to attempt a re-write of a clear set of rules based on what they allowed and didn't allow back in the beginning.

To argue that the current rules have worked for so long is a moot point really when there are still those that want to argue the ruling of any eligibility scrutineer.  Plenty of people on here and off agree that the current rules are about as clear as mud.

All this crap about "frankenbikes" appearing because of allowing 44mm (to allow the Fox Factory Forx) conventional forks from a later model bike to be used is just plain nonsense. Has the use of late model, multi-adjustable rear shocks turned bikes into something we never saw in the day? The bike still looks the same as it did in the day BUT it now has rear shocks that work a whole better than OEM units.

How anyone can interpret; 2b) NO re-engineering of disc brake design forks in an attempt to comply are allowed.) into being able to make your own brackets to adapt a drum brake to comply with the rule is beyond me.
 How anyone can suggest that USD forks are able to be used on an Evo class bike is also beyond me. Some people will never see the trees through a forest 

[FourstrokeForever]

Keep pissing in your mates pocket, you'll eventually convince him it's raining

Our submissions are in, are yours?

As usual....running to the beat of your own drum Ted.

Why don't you show the conviction of your word and share your submission with the rest of us......