Author Topic: HEAVEN PLANNING AHEAD  (Read 13988 times)

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Offline GMC

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Re: HEAVEN PLANNING AHEAD
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2009, 09:49:12 am »
While I have nothing to do with Heaven, or Viper for that matter who are discussing similar things, I was thinking along the same lines as Nathan.....   (scarey isn't it ;D)
"3. The people that would go to some events, with no apparent rhyme or reason to which events they chose. It turns out that the reasons were many and varied: "I missed that event because my sister got married"; "Never rallied down here, thought I'd give it a go"; "I was too busy at work"; "I love/hate that event"; "I busted my knee playing backyard cricket"; "My aunty lives up here so we got free accomodation" etc etc etc."

Kids birthdays, engagments weddings etc, all come into play as well as the missus planning something on your behalf.
If you reduced the events to 2 big rounds for instance you would still find some guys can't make it for some of the above various reasons.
So long as you have enough entries to make an event viable then I beleive you should run these events & as suggested, drop your worst score from 2 or so rounds so the diehards don't have an unfair advantage over those with "busy" lives.

G.M.C.  Bringing the past into the future

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firko

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Re: HEAVEN PLANNING AHEAD
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2009, 10:00:26 am »
Holding a simple poll is a great idea but for human nature being what it is, many will opt for a higher number of rounds than they would actually plan to attend, just to widen their choices. It's no big deal if they don't have to work out the behind the scenes logistics.....the more the merrier!  Adding the option to drop your two worst rounds is a good thing but....I still think 10 rounds is overkill. With the two dropped rounds scenario, perhaps a 7 round series would be the ideal.  ???
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 10:02:55 am by firko »

Offline VMX247

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Re: HEAVEN PLANNING AHEAD
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2009, 10:09:46 am »
All club committees should  be very PR savvy and be very approachable.  8)   ;D
cheers
Best is in the West !!

shoey

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Re: HEAVEN PLANNING AHEAD
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2009, 10:25:20 am »
Fair comment , however people with realistic views and expectations will vote accordingly, why ??? would you vote for tens rounds with the intention of not attending.


Offline VMX247

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Re: HEAVEN PLANNING AHEAD
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2009, 10:28:08 am »
Fair comment , however people with realistic views and expectations will vote accordingly, why ??? would you vote for tens rounds with the intention of not attending.

GREED  ;D

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Offline Damo

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Re: HEAVEN PLANNING AHEAD
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2009, 10:42:05 am »
I would like to see the option of dropping your worst round implemented it worked very well with the Thumper Nats series and meant if you had a dnf you could still compete for the series.

I would also like to see a Pre90 all powers race implemented whether it be a demo class or championship.

Lastly I would like to see the club championship scoring changed to reflect the number of riders you are competing against, this works very well within karting circles an example would be:

Class Pre 78 open had 4 competitors the winner would recieve 25 points plus 4 competitor points total would be 29 points toward the c.c., the 2nd place guy 22 plus 4 competitor points = 26 points etc, etc

Class Evo Open has 11 competitors the winner would receive 25 points + 11 competitor points ie 36 points towards c.c.

Obviously the amount of competitors for each class would change from round to round.

I would like these options presented to the members at the AGM at Glenbawn

Damo

firko

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Re: HEAVEN PLANNING AHEAD
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2009, 11:38:38 am »
Quote
why  would you vote for tens rounds with the intention of not attending.
So that they'd have more options of what to intend. I'm not saying that all voters would do that but in a fit of enthusiasm some sure as shit would.

Offline czeck

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Re: HEAVEN PLANNING AHEAD
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2009, 12:42:50 pm »
I got to put something down.
It's interesting that Firko goes on about less meetings for Heaven. Hey Firko, get a bike and turn up.

I know people that participate in many sports that include old bastards. Most of the sports have a season and they compete often.  Some sports even have mid week comp. If you look at surfing, most of those guys are in the water daily. At the gym I go to there are several old guys that train hard just for the love of it. Surf life saving have a weekly comp.
This crap about us being to old and the bike being to old is just that, "crap" and so is "there are to many meetings"

Why have less meetings, I am with Nathan  on this. I belong to another club that has less meetings and gues what, most of them clashed with something that I had on. My total race attendance for the year is 2.

It's my opinion that if you realy love something you want to do it as often as you can. And after all, that's the reason we are doing it!

I think that this year has been perfect. Good amount of meetings and who cares that only 35 people turned up at Clarence. Did we have fun, you bet ya. I certainly did't hear one complaint.

We have a great bunch of people that do a great job at promoting the club considering that all of it is done by volunteers.
Could we do it better? probably with some fine tunning.
Best thing is, get a bike,get fit, come to all the meeting if you can and bring a mate. And tell every one what you are into, that is the best promotion for the club.

Dan, I will talk to you about the web on the weekend.
rgds


Offline Dan-166

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Re: HEAVEN PLANNING AHEAD
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2009, 12:53:23 pm »
Carl,
Will be good to catch up re the website. Are you camping on the weekend?
Dan

Offline Nathan S

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Re: HEAVEN PLANNING AHEAD
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2009, 01:07:41 pm »
Sorry to harp on about the rallying thing again, but there's a precedent there too.

The ACT Regional Rally Series is THE most successful rally series in the country - it makes the Aussie championship look like a complete joke (although three kids with billycarts could do that...). It is much more successful because it recognises that we're amateurs participating at a very amateur level - it recognises that everyone has a life away from their motorsport, but still wish to be competitive.

1. The ACT Series has eight rounds, and your best six count. If rounds are cancelled, then "too bad". I think that if two rounds are cancelled, then your best five count.
It makes the whole thing a bit more tactical for the really serious guys, but the vast majority of the punters just appreciate the chance to actually challenge for their part of the series.
Attendance is good across the year, with most classes not being decided until the last or second-last round.
There has even been talk of increasing the number of rounds to nine or ten, and/or making only the best five count. The concern there is that you could be beaten for the Championship by someone you have never actually competed against...
I see no reason why this wouldn't work just as well for HEAVEN.

2. You get awarded full points if you come and officiate at an event. You must commit to doing the job for the whole day, not just breeze in at 1:30pm, wave a flag for an hour and then go home again (or similar). You cannot score official's points if you compete. You can only score officials' points once per year. You do not have to score your officials' points at any time.
It means that the competitors take ownership of the lack of officials problem a lot more, without 'bullying' people into doing their bit (there's a small but vocal number of punters who deeply object to "being forced" to officiate during the year. The Victorian series says that you MUST officiate at least once per year, and they all cope fine - its just some NSWelshmen that complain)
This may, or may-not work as well for Heaven, as the culture is different and there's already a workable (but not ideal) way of gathering enough flaggies/starters/lap scorers.

 
I would like to see the option of dropping your worst round implemented it worked very well with the Thumper Nats series and meant if you had a dnf you could still compete for the series.

I would also like to see a Pre90 all powers race implemented whether it be a demo class or championship.

Lastly I would like to see the club championship scoring changed to reflect the number of riders you are competing against, this works very well within karting circles an example would be:

Class Pre 78 open had 4 competitors the winner would recieve 25 points plus 4 competitor points total would be 29 points toward the c.c., the 2nd place guy 22 plus 4 competitor points = 26 points etc, etc

Class Evo Open has 11 competitors the winner would receive 25 points + 11 competitor points ie 36 points towards c.c.

Obviously the amount of competitors for each class would change from round to round.

I would like these options presented to the members at the AGM at Glenbawn

Damo


I've not seen the variable points thing in action, but it sounds like a good idea. If nothing else, it will encourage riders to get more of their mates to ride in their classes...

The rest of it, I definitely agree with.



The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline Graeme M

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Re: HEAVEN PLANNING AHEAD
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2009, 03:26:14 pm »
This was posted over in the Pre 90 poll thread, but it's interesting and more pertinent here:

Average numbers per class - HEAVEN points score table

Pre 70 = 1.17
Classic 125 = 4.58
Pre 75 250 = 7.42
Pre 75 Open = 8.58
Pre 78 250 = 7.58
Pre 78 Open = 8.42
Post Classic 125 = 10.3
Evo 250 = 13.1
Evo Open = 11.3
Pre 85 = 15.5
Pre 85 Only = 17
Four Stroke = 9.58

You can see that the Pre 78 classes in particular are very thin. My point re fewer events and changed classes is aimed at revitalising the scene for everyone and in particular Pre 78. With fewer meetings I do believe we would get more riders. I take Nathan's point, but I think our VMX is a slightly different kettle of fish. MANY of the small pool of competitors try to make it to CD, Nats, and a few of the other 'away' meets like Jack Hogg, DT Nats, etc. As many are in the 40-55 year old bracket, family and work commitments must be a significant issue. There isn't room for all of those, and it's the local events that get dropped in favour of the bigger ones, at least for me it is.

Secondly, I go along to my local club and they run 3 rounds of racing with more than a gazillion classes. At HEAVEN, you'd be lucky to get 2 rounds most events. This isn't a dig at anyone at all, but if the classes were condensed it means bigger fields and more races. I dunno about you, but I couldn't care less what size bike I am racing against. What I do care about is getting a decent number of rides, and having a full field on the grid with me. Of course given I have only one bike and it seems most have a minimum of 10, I guess I am in the minority here.

My argument?

More grasstracks or natural terrain tracks, fewer classes and more actual races, and fewer meetings so the ones we do have are bigger and better attended.

firko

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Re: HEAVEN PLANNING AHEAD
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2009, 03:49:53 pm »
Quote
Hey Firko, get a bike and turn up.
.
Quote
Best thing is, get a bike,get fit, come to all the meeting if you can and bring a mate. And tell every one what you are into, that is the best promotion for the club.
I've got plenty of bikes and I'm trying hard to get fit and have lost over 50kg in that regard, I swim nearly every day and ride my mountain bike but because of chronic arthritis and a severe ankle injury from a racing accident that requires major surgery I doubt I can race again. Don't for a minute think I wouldn't if I could. I'm merely passing on my ideas based on my experience racing and running vintage meetings with Penrith club, long before you came along Carl. Does that make me ineligible to have an opinion because I no longer race? I've seen the 10 round series before and they've all eventually cut back to a more user friendly 4 OR 5 rounds. In the end though it's up to the racers to decide what they want. Dan asked for some input and I gave my ideas. Because it disagrees with your perspective does that mean my input is wrong (or right for that matter)? No, it's merely another opinion that's all.


« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 03:51:46 pm by firko »

Offline Dan-166

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Re: HEAVEN PLANNING AHEAD
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2009, 03:54:38 pm »
All opinions are encouraged and I thank those who are willing to put their opinions out there. There is no right or wrong in the opinion stakes. If all our opinions were the same then there would be no forum and and we would not be having this constructive discussion and that's exactly what it is, CONSTRUCTIVE DISCUSSION.

Offline VMX247

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Re: HEAVEN PLANNING AHEAD
« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2009, 03:58:13 pm »
Don't forget the amount of time,money and effort into putting all these events on ,,,for the same people to do the same jobs over and over can be tough stuff... :P
We,you,me,them and us might go to 2 or 10 rounds but someone has done the hard yards already...you just have to pic your date and rock up..
Its a BIG job running a series and setting it all in place at the years beginning.  :P
cheers
Best is in the West !!

Offline Shaun G

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Re: HEAVEN PLANNING AHEAD
« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2009, 04:22:18 pm »
Some interesting stats.

58 Riders have scored points in the Pre 85 Only class. Race average = 17
43 Riders have scored points in Evo 250. Race average = 13.1
27 Riders have scored points in Pre 78 Open. Race average = 8.42
33 Riders have scored points in Pre 75 Open. Race average = 8.58
15 Riders have scored points in Pre 70. Race average = 1.17

Perhaps we are being spoiled by choice.

I reckon we could look at maintaining the current "trophy meetings" (CRC, Evo Challenge and Canowindra Cup) as stand alone events with all the hype and promotion we can throw at them.

The point score could then be run over 6 rounds with the requirement to drop your worst round.

Leave the Club Championship as it is ie. combined score of your best two classes.

Throw in Classic Dirt, VMX and DT Nats and I think that makes a good year.

Cheers
Shaun #23
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 07:51:28 pm by STiG »