Author Topic: Where have all the old boys gone  (Read 36999 times)

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Offline vmx42

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Re: Where have all the old boys gone
« Reply #45 on: October 31, 2007, 03:46:57 pm »
Hi Guys,
No need to worry Firko, Pre 65, Pre 75 the more the merrier. We need to make these events inclusive, so everybody is welcome [even Bultaco riders]!*

Eno, don't worry. Bring your chair, guitar and beer. Just don't bring the disco ball [no need as Ajay always carries a spare in the Truck]!!!

Bill, no need to rub it in. If we could operate a meeting without MA [and I am not knocking MA, but their involvement is necessary for the required insurance] then I am sure we would. I hope you guys in EnZed realise how lucky you are.

So lets get some momentum going and bring back the old guys, the new guys [and all their friends] and show everybody what they are missing by not being involved in VMX.

Of course, words are cheap… so where to from here??? Keep the dialogue going and see if we can come up with some practical solutions.

Back to you guys
VMX 42

P.S. and Firko, I would probably offer you 6 or 7 cents for your input - it was that good!!

*yes that was a joke, you know who you are…
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Offline Graeme M

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Re: Where have all the old boys gone
« Reply #46 on: October 31, 2007, 04:20:01 pm »
Spot on Firko, and I've taken that on board re this 80sMX concept. I'll post some more thoughts on that later. I also agree about the Classic Dirt. It should retain its cult status as the one true national 'lifestyle' event. I've been to three out of four of these and they are just what it's all about. I will never forget the first one - it was perfect in every way to me.

Yamaboy

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Re: Where have all the old boys gone
« Reply #47 on: October 31, 2007, 04:56:18 pm »
 Well stated Firko. It's time we all stopped pushing our personal barrows and worked together for the future of our sport.
Time after time I read on these post that someone is lobbying for pre 90 or 95 or whatever to be picked up as "the saviour" of vintage racing. Its time we stopped trying to make our sport bigger and started to make it better! Firkos ideas are a good start.

Offline maicomc490t

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Re: Where have all the old boys gone
« Reply #48 on: October 31, 2007, 05:58:41 pm »

I'm with him - all good ideas and I believe the makings of a good template for a bright future - all brought about by reasonable argument and comment without the bitchin', but here's is the crunch..........

We are all throwing around ideas here that I reckon could get long legs, but are there any HEAVEN, VIPER or whatever committee types out there reading all of the comments posted here and mulling it over.

If you are out there let us know, otherwise all this stuff will have to be downloaded and sent to the "to whom it may concern" people so they can get the wheels turning.

Worth some comment from club officials who surely read these pages ???

And please guys if anyone from the clubs does pass comment lets all be polite  ;)
VAPOUR (AKA HYDRA / HYDRO / AQUA / WET) BLASTING AND GENERAL ENGINEERING 0416074750 (or) [email protected]

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Offline DJRacing

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Re: Where have all the old boys gone
« Reply #49 on: October 31, 2007, 06:06:29 pm »
Yes Firko, the concept of more friendlier club meetings(relaxed bike classes), then the guy who just wants to ride around the track on a simlar looking bike as the next guy isnt told to go up a class for having the wrong bolt in his bike.

I think you guys over there are lucky. Look at the amount of VMX meetings you can choose to go to. You need to keep alot of them as fun events to draw people into the sport and also to attract the guys back who have left the fold.

If you guys looked at a calender one day and worked out how many VMX meetings are on in one year you would be surprised. If the clubs got together and worked out when each one wanted to have their big(full-on competition) races then they could be spread throughout the year giving you plenty of competitive racing with more numbers on the start line.

Of cause all of you should support your nationals champs, and if you think you arent good enough, will thats just to bad because there is only one person good enough at the end of the day and the rest of us just make up the numbers and thats what makes a great event.

There are 12 months to a year and I know of three major events that you guys run(classic Dirt, National MX, National DT) and if "your" club runs one big event a year how many "big" events is that in one year? Plus I assume each club runs there own 'club champs' or 'series' so when do you get to have those lazy riding days ???

Over here we run classes on the basis that if the bike looks like it should be in pre75 then thats where it races(thats how I get to race a YZ125X in pre75). If its a non-linkage aircooled bike then it goes in pre80. The system works. But as firko says for the Nationals the rules have to apply and that means complying with them. If you know the rules there shouldnt be any problems. Remember that you want to go to this event so you should know the rules. Lets face it, if a cop pulls you over for speeding, its not his fault(hes just the F@&k!n bastard giving you the ticket).
« Last Edit: October 31, 2007, 06:37:29 pm by DJRacing »
If at first you dont succeed, give up and drink beer

Offline Nathan S

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Re: Where have all the old boys gone
« Reply #50 on: October 31, 2007, 06:22:10 pm »
...
But what I was trying to say was that at most of the smaller meetings [if we go down the path of a more casual style of competition] it wouldn't matter what a rider had done to his bike - the results would be the same and therefore I would like to see everybody just chill out. Obviously if you front at the Nationals with an illegal bike then it should be ruled as non compliant and dealt with appropriately. This is one area the Poms deal with by having a silloette rule [if it looks right from 5 meters then it is OK].
...

In reality, I haven't ever seen it work any other way - even at the Nationals. I saw a couple of bikes at the Nats that clearly had 'out of era' bits on them, but Who Gives A Rat's Arse?
Similarly, I am unaware of anyone being pulled up for eligibility isues at a HEAVEN event in the time I've been involved.

So I'd guess that this side of things IS already working the way that 99% of us want them to work?


Firko's last post is a pearler too. Two thumbs up from me.


The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline GD66

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Re: Where have all the old boys gone
« Reply #51 on: October 31, 2007, 06:58:38 pm »
 VMX42, MA have been playing the old Threat of Insurance Cover Cost card for a number of years here in classic roadracing, there was a groundswell of discontent in Qld a couple of years back that wanted to break away, run "black" meetings, and tell MA to go jump. Where this concept fails is, nobody has done a full breakdown of available insurance possibilities. As I'm sure DJ, TMBill and eno can confirm, vmx in NZ told MNZ to go whistle, as MNZ would do nothing for their movement except collect fees. At present, my understanding is that VMX Livewire shopped for appropriate insuranve, and this is covered inside the $30 - ish entry fee, and no race licence is required. Can you envisage how much more relaxed the beginning to your race day is already ? No wonder it's hammering over there, with tracks from hell on tap in both islands as well. Bastards ! PS, Hugh Anderson won 25 roadrace GPs on 50 and 125cc Suzukis, and won 4 world titles before turning back to mx, and raced in  NZ on CZs and Yamahas for a number of years in the 60s and 70s, and is still redhot on a Manx Norton and BSA Empire Star as well. What a star...
Nostalgia's not what it used to be....

Offline DJRacing

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Re: Where have all the old boys gone
« Reply #52 on: October 31, 2007, 07:44:26 pm »
In NZ we dont have insurance as such for the rider. I believe the Kiwi VMX team have insurance for property damage(e.g. burning down a forrest etc) but our ACC takes care of any and all people if involved in an accident. VMX in NZ has never belonged to MNZ, probably because we would have to run meetings under their rule book, and their rule book might be ok for todays racing, but for VMX it isnt worth the paper it is written on. The one thing as riders we have to do is sign an indemnity against laying a complaint against the organisers. But common sense has to prevail when racing. If you think something is unsafe, say so, otherwise this is racing and accidents happen. Or you can always pack up and go home. 99% of the time its YOUR throttle hand that has the last say, you can always shut it off earlier. But yes, we are covered as riders, and yes we WILL NOT join MNZ so we dont have liciences and as VMX riders we dont even belong to VMX clubs. So no licience fees, no club fees, no insurance fees, no hierarchy fees and no un-vmx officials to worry about.
So in saying that, we pay $30 for a days racing and included in that price is a free BBQ lunch and if you help pull down the track at the end of the day the beer is free too.

So that is how VMX is in NZ.
                                 Anyone wanna com'on over and sample it just say the word and myself and TMBill will help you all the way to the cold ones at the end of the day. ;D

Speaking of days, I remember that day when Hugh Anderson was racing with us and we thought that was really cool but the day didnt stop their because Harry Everts rode as well.
If at first you dont succeed, give up and drink beer

oz555ktm

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Re: Where have all the old boys gone
« Reply #53 on: October 31, 2007, 08:05:54 pm »
I think you must Keep your bikes Friendly to the Era .

YES Friendly to the Era .....

Why Because the new guy to the Sport  who turns up and and see the tt 500 with 12' of travel and a set of 40mm tubes .
 So he go home and works on hes tt 500 and find a set of 43mm forks and 13' of travel and drops a
550cc xt donk and  off he goes .

The next New guy rock up and check out Fred's new ride . Fred tell he what he has done and off Bill goes .

The 1976 TT is so far from what Yamaha Made .

So I say it must be Friendly to the Era .
OK Put some YYS Shocks with Clicker on the back and a extra 20mm travel .
Put some New Valve in the front forks all OK ..
Bore it out .
Put on a PVL  as long it all fit under the Cover. all OK

But the Bike still look the same as Yamaha Made it .

Yes the bike go a bit harder  all OK.
Yes the Suspension is much Softer on the Old Bone .  All OK
Yes the Excl Rims are Cooler Looking All OK

Every Guy will all ways Just push it out a bit more than the other Guy and soon it would all be lost.


Thats what I Think.
Dennis M   555

Offline vmx42

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Re: Where have all the old boys gone
« Reply #54 on: November 01, 2007, 08:18:20 am »
Hi GD66,
I actually don't have a problem with MA. All I was trying to say was that there is a large degree of complication and expense in running a meeting trying to make sure that everybody is insured. The need for this crazy level of required insurance isn't MA's fault, they didn't write the legislation that put us in this position. In fact without them there would be no motorcycle events at all.

Also, I do understand that the legislation in this area is very different between OZ and NZ and this is the reason that they don't have to jump through the insurance hoops that we have to. But I reiterate, it isn't MA's fault - blame the idiots that can't accept responsibility for their own actions and instead look for somebody to blame [with the help of some blood sucking lawyer].

To give you a non-motorcycling example. My son plays soccer and we pay $135.00 per season to register him. Of that $135.00 over $90.00 is for insurance. That is crazy for kids sport and a sad reflection on our society as well.

The soap box has now been put away.
VMX42
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Beam me up Scotty, no intelligent life down here…

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Offline AjayVMX

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Re: Where have all the old boys gone
« Reply #55 on: November 01, 2007, 10:22:01 am »
I'll back up VMX42 on that one...

Having been an organiser of events in clubs for many, many years, I am very aware of the traps and pitfalls of the insurance/riding cost debate.

Unfortunately, it's all too easy to gloss over the realities of the legal system, when brainstorming on a forum such as this for ways to make event easy and cheap.  The reality is somewhat different, especially when its your house on the line. ;)

The bottom line is that in Australia, indemnity waivers have until recently, been considered by lawers to be not worth the paper they are written on and that has led to the need to have insurance.  I say until recently, as the rising cost of said insurance has finally led the Governments to rewrite the laws somewhat for "high risk" activities so that the waivers might actually mean something.  The operative word here being "might", as I don't believe the new limitation laws have been tested in court yet.  They could still be worthless for all we know.

So until it is widely accepted that waivers are absolute, i.e. enter at you own risk means just that, then insurance costs are here to stay, but the new waiver has reduced or capped those costs.

My 2c worth  (we must be up to about $3.46 in opinions now) on the missing persons debate is as follows;

1.  Holding a lot of racing-only events is not a good idea.  Older people don't have the time to ride so often and many don't want to race anymore, as they have "been there, done that" in their earlier riding years.

2.  Ride days or unscored racing is a good idea and should be done more often.  But not on the Saturday of a race meeting...as an event on a Sunday in thier own right, instead of competitive racing.

3.  Entry on the day without penalty fees should be be mandatory for club days.  Entry on the day should also be OK even for larger meetings, with a nominal penalty fee (e.g. $10-20) applied.  Organising the motos should be able to be done during the practice period, it's not rocket science.  A lot of people don't know for sure if they can make it to an event until just before and having penalties imposed is a big turn off.  A club should have confidence in the fact that people will want to come to thier events and be able to gauge how many people will show up, without forcing them to pre-enter.

4.  Events should include extra activities such as show n shines, BBQs, social activity.

5.  Better coordination/thought about event scheduling throughout Australia.  We have had way too many event conflicts recently which don't help anyone.  Email makes it pretty easy nowadays to coordinate with other clubs... ::)   In particular, NO other vintage events should be scheduled on the same weekend as Vintage National Title events.

6.  Tracks should be Vintage bike friendly - regular modern MX tracks are a big turn off to many older riders, along with being actually dangerous and bike wreckers.  If this means the clubs having to find more farmers paddocks to use as tracks, then so be it. ;)

Well, that would be my wishlist.

Doc

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Re: Where have all the old boys gone
« Reply #56 on: November 01, 2007, 10:40:06 am »
I propose we build a bridge to NZ  ;D okay..I'll shut up now  :P

Offline Freakshow

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Re: Where have all the old boys gone
« Reply #57 on: November 01, 2007, 01:26:37 pm »
Ajay i Concur this is Nailin git on the head !

1.  Holding a lot of racing-only events is not a good idea.  Older people don't have the time to ride so often and many don't want to race anymore, as they have "been there, done that" in their earlier riding years.

2.  Ride days or unscored racing is a good idea and should be done more often.  But not on the Saturday of a race meeting...as an event on a Sunday in thier own right, instead of competitive racing.

3.  Entry on the day without penalty fees should be be mandatory for club days.  Entry on the day should also be OK even for larger meetings, with a nominal penalty fee (e.g. $10-20) applied.  Organising the motos should be able to be done during the practice period, it's not rocket science.  A lot of people don't know for sure if they can make it to an event until just before and having penalties imposed is a big turn off.  A club should have confidence in the fact that people will want to come to thier events and be able to gauge how many people will show up, without forcing them to pre-enter.

4.  Events should include extra activities such as show n shines, BBQs, social activity.

5.  Better coordination/thought about event scheduling throughout Australia.  We have had way too many event conflicts recently which don't help anyone.  Email makes it pretty easy nowadays to coordinate with other clubs... ::)   In particular, NO other vintage events should be scheduled on the same weekend as Vintage National Title events.

6.  Tracks should be Vintage bike friendly - regular modern MX tracks are a big turn off to many older riders, along with being actually dangerous and bike wreckers.  If this means the clubs having to find more farmers paddocks to use as tracks, then so be it. ;)

Well, that would be my wishlist.
74 Yamaha YZ's - 75 Yamaha YZ's
74 Yamaha  flattracker's
70  Jawa 2 valve speedway's

For sale -  PRE 75 Yamaha MX stuff, frame, motors and parts also some YAM DT1,2,A and Suzi TS bikes and stuff

Offline vmx42

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Re: Where have all the old boys gone
« Reply #58 on: November 01, 2007, 01:43:08 pm »
Hey Doc,
Can you imagine the cost of the bridge toll. It would make flying look cheap if tolls in Sydney are anything to go by.
VMX42
When a woman says "What?", it's not because she didn't hear you, she's giving you the chance to chance to change what you said.

Beam me up Scotty, no intelligent life down here…

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Doc

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Re: Where have all the old boys gone
« Reply #59 on: November 01, 2007, 03:13:50 pm »
 :o I hadn't figured in the cost of a toll vmx42  :-[..plan B..fill in the ditch and drive across  ;D
« Last Edit: November 01, 2007, 03:16:15 pm by Doc »