Matt Moss crash at Shep..

[GMC]

Not a good scene, surely they would have heard the bike and could have stopped the accident.

Bobcats run at a constant high throttle when working so a single bike may not have been heard till the last seconds
Also they were working on the down ramp so the jump would have blocked their view.

Not laying blame
Not making excuses
Just looking at the big picture
and no I wasn't there

[William Doe]

I feel for the Bobcat driver , regardless of resposibility im sure he will feel like shit its human nature .
When another human being is hurt as a result of colliding with somthing you are in charge of you will feel bad.

Wishing Matt a speedy recovery and spare a thought for that Bobcat driver .

[bigk]

I wasn't there but I find it hard to believe (impossible) that the bobcat operator went on the track off his own bat, he had to have been  directed to do so by someone higher up the command chain. Nothing else makes any sense. Mark has just stated it as fact anyway. Just my opinion.
K

[FourstrokeForever]

I wasn't there but I find it hard to believe (impossible) that the bobcat operator went on the track off his own bat, he had to have been  directed to do so by someone higher up the command chain. Nothing else makes any sense. Mark has just stated it as fact anyway. Just my opinion.
K

It is fact Micheal.

And as for blaming the bobcat operator, we all know that crap flows downhill.

[Nathan S]

Hey guys, probably would be best to let this one drop. No worthwhile purpose can be served by inviting further comment on this topic, in fact it could possibly draw unwanted attention to the issue of track maintenance equipment and operators of said equipment that we all enjoy the benefit of at our club days. I think you all know where I am going with this. I am sure that process refinement will follow as a result.

Cheers
Nick

I repeat

This incident and the inevitable fall out from it, is way bigger than ANY discussion we have here.
The ball is set in motion. The absolute limit of possible influence of this forum is that we might (but probably won't) suggest paths for the investigators to look at.

And it's not like we're the only forum discussing it - and this is definitely one of the more measured discussions.

[FourstrokeForever]

Not a good scene, surely they would have heard the bike and could have stopped the accident.

Bobcats run at a constant high throttle when working so a single bike may not have been heard till the last seconds
Also they were working on the down ramp so the jump would have blocked their view.

Not laying blame
Not making excuses
Just looking at the big picture
and no I wasn't there

The Bobcat wasn't doing any work at the time Geoff. It was sitting idle. As a matter of fact, for whatever reason the bobcat was called onto the track for had not even began....It just sat idle at the base of the jump.

[bigthumpa]

Hey guys, probably would be best to let this one drop. No worthwhile purpose can be served by inviting further comment on this topic, in fact it could possibly draw unwanted attention to the issue of track maintenance equipment and operators of said equipment that we all enjoy the benefit of at our club days. I think you all know where I am going with this. I am sure that process refinement will follow as a result.

Cheers
Nick

I repeat        Bobcats can dig holes and I guess only time will tell if this thread will help to do the same.
Adding any fuel to the fire, in my opinion, can only be detrimental. No more from me on this topic.

This incident and the inevitable fall out from it, is way bigger than ANY discussion we have here.
The ball is set in motion. The absolute limit of possible influence of this forum is that we might (but probably won't) suggest paths for the investigators to look at.

And it's not like we're the only forum discussing it - and this is definitely one of the more measured discussions.

[Nathan S]

What's happened has happened. It's far too big and far too visible to be swept under the carpet.

I think you're massively overestimating the influence of this forum, and apparently massively underestimating the significance of the reigning national champ being put in a life-threatening situation at a national event.
Any form of risk assessment process would put this firmly in the "oh shit" category - we're all just lucky it wasn't a fatality.

The only point of significance (to the inquiry) to come from this thread is that one member witnessed it first hand and could/should be another useful source of info.

[Hardo]

I am curious why anyone would request silence on this topic - especially considering there are quite a few motorcycle club committee representatives that read these forums.

Sharing thoughts and open (civil) discussion can only make clubs everywhere smarter and undoubtedly wiser in their on-track management.

The swiss-cheese model can strike at any time after all.....   

I see the this discussion as a potentially good thing. Of course the caveat is that it remains on the level ... 

[evo550]

Kevin Williams speaks about the incident...
http://www.motoonline.com.au/2015/07/23/industry-insight-mx-nationals-kevin-williams/

[Barra]

Protocols not being followed?

He goes to lengths to highlight the track crew not following protocol - which also highlights there were no other secondary procedures in place to avoid such an incident.  How about telling everyone (all officials) that there is about to be bikes on the circuit and getting a track clearance from everyone (via headsets) before giving the go-ahead?

For sure human error was a factor, and on more than one level, though it's a bit low to leave it looking like it was a mistake on just one level . . .   

The right procedures already exist even at club days - the starter, finisher and track marshal communicate before dropping the gate on the next race. 

[FourstrokeForever]

Bloody hell.

It's one thing to say that protocols weren't followed....(I personally thought that was blatantly obvious) but KW states he communicated with Race control to let Matt start his super poll lap. Question: Wouldn't everybody else with headsets have heard the command?

Then he mentions something about the water truck guy not being happy with the start straight and asking the bobcat operator to give it a quick once over....WTF, the bobcat was parked on the track at the base of the finish line jump (which is where timing for laps is done because super poll is a hot lap) so surely he's not trying to suggest that a local club member doesn't know where the start straight is.

If anyone has seen the video of the crash, you can see at least 3 people near the bobcat. No one apart from officials and photographers is allowed on the in field of the track. Did they not hear the command from KW to start Matt for super poll? Even without headsets they would of heard the announcement over the track side loud speakers. I did, and I was further away from the speakers than they were.
Point is, I didn't see a red flag raised anywhere. Nor did I see any official attempt to run to the top of the jump to try and stop Matt.

I hope that WorkSafe Victoria, MV, MA and any other investigating party apart from WEM appeal for impartial witnesses to come forward to give some more insight into an incident that could of taken more than one life. Maybe I'm the only person on this forum who saw the whole debacle on this forum, but there were plenty of others at the canteen alone who saw it all unfold.

[Barra]

The Bobcat wasn't doing any work at the time Geoff. It was sitting idle. As a matter of fact, for whatever reason the bobcat was called onto the track for had not even began....It just sat idle at the base of the jump.

In the seconds before impact the video shows the bobcat lowering its bucket and then reversing toward centre of track. 

[skypig]

Communication errors are probably impossible to eliminate compleatly. Sure procedures will be put in place to stop a similar crash in the future, but humans will find a way to make a different error.

You can't do anything COMPLEATLY safely.

One of the sad things to me is: everyone involved was trying to make the day of MX racing successful and safe. (Removing he wheel ruts...for eg)

We all hope Matt recovers fast and compleatly, and that lessons are learned.

[Nathan S]

KW's account seems plausible. Particularly the bit where he says Moss had only entered the track seconds before the crash - there wasn't half a lap for Moss to be flagged down, or the bobcat to be moved.

I'm certainly not a member of the Kevin Williams fan club, but nothing he's said there is obviously bullsh.
Assuming he has told the story straight, I'd predict that the blame will be (rightly) shared between the bobcat operator, the water truck driver and Williams. The two volunteers deviated from protocol, and WEM didn't have adequate protocols in place, so all of them contributed to the crash.