Bored at work and thinking VMX

[Wombat]

I'm in no way qualified to comment on the technical aspects, but the idea of the big bore Honda and the proposals/hypotheticals put forth seem to be in keeping with the spirit of VMX.
So, why not nut it out and put your proposal on paper and submit to the powers that be?

There are changes to rules and regs from time to time and they must have a start somewhere.
As good as this forum is it's apparent it carries no weight when it comes to pushing ideas, agendas and proposals with the Ruling Bodies; the noise debate was evidence of this.

I've only breezed over the regs because my bikes comply. I'm not able to build a frankenbike so I won't bother to try.
But I noticed certain models of bikes are excluded or included for various reasons.

Your ideas sound good with regard to the big Hondas. Those of you who feel this can and should be done should submit the idea. Move a motion and second it (sorry, too simplistic I know).
But arguing it here on the forum won't actually make it happen.

[magoo]

The important thing to learn here is the difference between a debate and an arguement, 2 completely different things.

[Wombat]

The important thing to learn here is the difference between a debate and an arguement, 2 completely different things.

True, true. My apologies if "arguing" sounded harsh. Debate is a far better word.
No-one is arguing so far. Thanks for pointing it out.

[firko]

For a class that was developed to keep it all simple, without all of the rule dramas that were supposedly bogging down pre '75, you guys seem to be all getting into a hissy fit over this. In Bahnsys rule thread the thinking seemed to settle on the original Rick Doughty concept of twin shock, drum brakes and air cooling. It was further discussed that allowing later forks as long as they were from a drum braked bike. Everyone cheered, God was in his Heaven and the Evolution class rules were sorted.

And then after that was settled, along came the mythical bloke who wanted to race a bike that didn't exist as a production bike using the excuse that the works team had something similar, why not him? The whole problem with this discussion is that the people arguing the point to include the twin shock 450 Honda are those with a vested interest due to having built bikes. If I decided to build a bike comprising of an '83 model geard primary drive, reed valve SC500 Maico engine fitted to a '78 Magnum frame you watch the 'rule nazis' jump on me. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't consider building a Maico like that as I don't think it's kosher. Neither do I think that building that Honda is kosher either.

In the sense of performance the twin shock 450 isn't going to be any better or worse than any other bike in the class but my mythical Maico would be. If the Honda's deemed to be OK than so is my Maico, an RM 500 powered '79 model Suzuki or a KX500 powered '78 Kawasaki A5 and any other bike built using a later period air cooled engine in a kosher frame. My point is that you have to have a set parameter. If building hot rods that didn't exist in the day is what you guys want then why not just introduce the Dutch way of doing it because if you don't have set limits, it'll happen.  

[magoo]

I would Firko but have you ever worn Klogs, fork they're uncomfortable.

[Husky500evo]

Here is the Noyce replica that was featured in the Classic Dirt Bike mag. I think that it is a great looking bike . I don't have an axe to grind here as I ride '81 Maicos or '84 Huskys , but I sympathize with the Honda guys.
I used to be a big Honda fan until I discovered real red  . I just think that if you can show proof that a bike did exist , then you should be able to build & race a replica of it .

[bigk]

There are already a couple of big bore '79 Kawaskai A5's running around here in Victoria(440cc), and the lengths one guy went to keep his legal were unbelievable, and in reality it should have been much easier for him and would have been said for the "nazi's". He still gets the flack even though the bike is 100% evo legal. If someone wanted to build a 500 powered '79 Suzuki, I say let them, BUT they don't have to. You can already get 460cc with your 79/80 RM400 fairly simply, and without anymore cost than a piston kit and bore to suit, so why would you? You also don't have to build your franken bike style Maico as the '81 490 is evo legal as well as being the legend it is. The original thread was about having a cool big bore Honda to race in the evo class, and the only people who would want to do it are Honda enthusiasts, who have no option but to use at least a cylinder from an '81 450 or '83 480 to keep their bike a true Honda, otherwise it would not be what they want. I'm sure you could meld a cylinder from another brand on to a Honda bottom end and be legal, but it's no longer a Honda and that is not the point for the devout Honda man. I have never had plans to ride mine and it was only ever built to look at because it's a cool big bore VMX bike, so no I don't have a vested interest in getting the bikes evo legal, even though IMO, they should be. The Dutch way is not the right way, and is not in the "spirit of the era". The big bore Honda's existed, just like the SR Kawasaki's and OW Yamaha's. Have a look at Terry Good's mxworksbike website and you can see them from 1976 onwards. It's only the inconsistency and grey area's of the rules which prevent these bikes from being legal and it's the same inconsistency and grey area's which allow others in as legal. It shouldn't be this hard and can only do harm to the sport. Air cooled, drum brake, no linkage. Should be that simple. 
K

[evo550]

I think the main difference between the Rc replica and the hl replica is that a production version of the Yamaha was avaliable to the public, not so with any works honda's.
The solution would be to put a XL motor in a Cr frame.....ya gotta love them fourstrokes.

[Husky500evo]

Here is a picture of the last twinshock open class bike that Kawasaki built . It is a '79 SR400 works bike . I am not sure who the rider would have been , but I think it might have been Gaylon Mosier . I would love to see someone build a replica of this bike as I think that it is a beautiful machine & would add some colour & variety to the evo class if the rules allowed it . At first glance, it looks that a close copy could be made using a KLX250 rolling frame ,a KX420 motor & A5 sidepanels & rear guard . The swingarm is the only part that appears to be totally different from production parts .

[DJRacing]

What is a rep

There are already a couple of big bore '79 Kawaskai A5's running around here in Victoria(440cc), and the lengths one guy went to keep his legal were unbelievable, and in reality it should have been much easier for him and would have been said for the "nazi's". He still gets the flack even though the bike is 100% evo legal. If someone wanted to build a 500 powered '79 Suzuki, I say let them, BUT they don't have to. You can already get 460cc with your 79/80 RM400 fairly simply, and without anymore cost than a piston kit and bore to suit, so why would you? You also don't have to build your franken bike style Maico as the '81 490 is evo legal as well as being the legend it is. The original thread was about having a cool big bore Honda to race in the evo class, and the only people who would want to do it are Honda enthusiasts, who have no option but to use at least a cylinder from an '81 450 or '83 480 to keep their bike a true Honda, otherwise it would not be what they want. I'm sure you could meld a cylinder from another brand on to a Honda bottom end and be legal, but it's no longer a Honda and that is not the point for the devout Honda man. I have never had plans to ride mine and it was only ever built to look at because it's a cool big bore VMX bike, so no I don't have a vested interest in getting the bikes evo legal, even though IMO, they should be. The Dutch way is not the right way, and is not in the "spirit of the era". The big bore Honda's existed, just like the SR Kawasaki's and OW Yamaha's. Have a look at Terry Good's mxworksbike website and you can see them from 1976 onwards. It's only the inconsistency and grey area's of the rules which prevent these bikes from being legal and it's the same inconsistency and grey area's which allow others in as legal. It shouldn't be this hard and can only do harm to the sport. Air cooled, drum brake, no linkage. Should be that simple. 
K

18.6.0.2
18.6.0.3
Do I understand these two rules correctly?

[Maico31]

At the end of the day we are all way past our prime and that World Motocross Title has eluded us. It makes f#*k all difference what bike we ride in the Evo class, even a works bike isn't going to turn a mid pack rider into a winner. Most of us just want to ride our favourite bike from the era. It wouldn't worry me if someone turned up with a CR480 motor in a '79 cr250 frame as long as it was Air Cooled, Drum Braked and Non Linkage Suspension and built from parts from a vintage bike. The rule book nazi's need to get a life and realise that the guy with the trick looking big bore works replica is still going to get pretty much the same results as he would've on a stock 490 Maico but he's going to have something that he could only have dreamt about in '79 and there's another cool looking bike out on the track ... Bit like a Cheney framed TM400!

[mxmaniac]

I have raced against a full grid of modern bikes on a 79 440 magnum and have been mid pack on occasions.
 There is nothing better than lining up among 39 other hungry race goer's..  Regardless of what bikes they are on, its bloody great "FUN" regardless.  
  Please Bring your twin shock, no linkage, air cooled CR 450/480 too the evo grid! as they way it is now, there is still spare gates for someone looking to enjoy there passion and have fun in the dirt with their mates..  

More bikes.. more entries.. more money for the clubs, more fun and best of all.. GROWTH!

[bigk]

A replica of that Kawasaki exists huskyevo and is the one I was talking about, it's hell fast and the guy who rides is more than capable. I'm with you Maico31, and that's my whole poit of veiw. Build the bike you desire sensibly but without blatant disregard for the rules or the "spirit", bring it for everyone to see, ride it and have some fun.
K 

[Maico31]

Bigk i was super impressed with your RC450 replica and i'd love to see it at a race meeting ripping it up. It may not turn you into Brad Lackey but it sure as hell looks cool!

[bigk]

Me again, if you used a KX420 engine in the SR replica, you end up in the same boat as the Honda guys with a non legal bike as the KX420 is a single shock. The Kawasaki boys have another option which keeps the bike legal, but the Honda guys don't have a similar option.
K