Forum Scaremongering

[Ktm181]

You're putting the cart before the horse there. The questions and the uncertainty exist in the real world - the forum is where they are asked, because they have the greatest chance of being answered.

The questions and uncertainty don't exist only because the forum exists. If anything, the forum exists because the questions exist.

+100, that's pretty much it in a nutshell. Its also how a democracy works, no?  Opinion/question should not be limited or censored in any way, the minute we do that we are on a slippery slope, we just need to be respectful of ALL opinions and questions.

Kt.

[supersenior 50]

As the other threads have been closed, I'll use this one for an appeal.
Surely by now the oxygen has been sucked out of this debate, so let's do something indispuitedly good for our fellow man.
Get on the "Riders Against Depression " thread and use some of that time and energy for a good cause. Talk is cheap and there has been plenty of that.

[Ted]

Ok blame JT and myself for this fiasco It doesn't bother either of us one bit. We and others know who did.

I will cop whatever the rules may be, always have , always will. What I am having a problem with is that in '05 '07 '11 '14 when there was a perfect opportunity to clear this up , the Commission chose to sit on their hands and do nothing.

With respect may I formally ask the Commissioner why?

( Simply saying there has never been a protest before is most likely that all EVO winners were on EVO legal bikes as I understand it. )

[William Doe]

Sorry Col but with respect to your cause please don't try to shut down threads I have started . I know you and your mates would like to gag free speech on here when it doesn't fit your mandate. This thread is purely an exercise in seeing if what you and a few others are quick to point out when it suits that what's said on this forum counts for nothing in the real world . As the poll is showing it seems that you are right but I will let it run a bit longer to give it a fair go .

This Forum is about discussion , debate and sharing knowledge , I cannot believe that some are so desperate to control the whole shebang they would actually stop free speech. Some joker referred to John Tate and Ted Brack as the Taliban of VMX , well i think the Taliban association weighs far heavier on the side of those who would silence those who dare ask the questions.

Perhaps its time for some of the lets call them "The club" to start their own forum where they can vet who they let in and then  what they can and can't ask so as no nasty difficult questions are raised . The Stepford club has a nice ring to it   

As for your cause I will make a donation to a men's blue charity this side of the Tasman as im sure that you believe to do so on your side would be inappropriate for Kiwis 

[mustanggrahame]

There is already a couple of those forums Bill. Try Vinduro or Yamahait and see what happens if you say the wrong thing (as decided by the hierarchy)

[supersenior 50]

Didn't try to shut it down,never have, never will. Interesting that the other relevant threads have been shut down, either by the originator or the moderator. Does that not tell you something?
I also am expressing my right to free speech, and other than disagreeing with aspects of this discussion have not denied anyone their right to the same.
I do find it interesting that nearly all on this topic  on this forum seeking change , clarification (call it what you will) and attacking volunteer officials, do not actually ride Evo bikes under the GCRs in question.
Contrary to that, most on this forum who seem generally ok with the status quo do actually ride Evo. This doesnt suggest stifling freedom of speech, but surely there comes a time when those who are directly affected by any outcome of this topic should be left to sort out their own affairs
Sorry to hammer the point, Evo over 90 bikes at Echo Valley, 25% more than Pre85 and 50% more than pre 90, Second only to Pre75 at the Qld titles with over 40 entries, no protests ever at a Nationals. Sounds healthy to me.
Thank you for the photo, and yes it was a great weekend. So sad that the gentleman who loaned me the bike left us so cruelly.
It makes the "Miles fr Mal" campagne very relevant doesn't it.
Thank for offering to donate to Beyond Blue, it's a worthy cause.
I'm going to excersise my right to freedom and sign off.

[evo550]

This claim that if you don't race evo your opinion doesn't count is B.S.( does 211 race evo on a regular basis ?)
The rules need to be defined not only for the racer but also for the officials, who potentially have to deal with this on a race day.
I don,t race evo, but I am an level 2 official, and if someone protested a Bike that had major components from a later era bike they would win each time. I would apply the rules very different to 211, so where does that leave the rider?

[William Doe]

Didn't try to shut it down,never have, never will. Interesting that the other relevant threads have been shut down, either by the originator or the moderator. Does that not tell you something?
I also am expressing my right to free speech, and other than disagreeing with aspects of this discussion have not denied anyone their right to the same.
I do find it interesting that nearly all on this topic  on this forum seeking change , clarification (call it what you will) and attacking volunteer officials, do not actually ride Evo bikes under the GCRs in question.
Contrary to that, most on this forum who seem generally ok with the status quo do actually ride Evo. This doesnt suggest stifling freedom of speech, but surely there comes a time when those who are directly affected by any outcome of this topic should be left to sort out their own affairs
Sorry to hammer the point, Evo over 90 bikes at Echo Valley, 25% more than Pre85 and 50% more than pre 90, Second only to Pre75 at the Qld titles with over 40 entries, no protests ever at a Nationals. Sounds healthy to me.
Thank you for the photo, and yes it was a great weekend. So sad that the gentleman who loaned me the bike left us so cruelly.
It makes the "Miles fr Mal" campagne very relevant doesn't it.
Thank for offering to donate to Beyond Blue, it's a worthy cause.
I'm going to excersise my right to freedom and sign off.

Col I still think you are missing the point of this thread , I used the eligibility debate as a lead in to this question as it was at the time the hot topic of debate .

This thread Poll is a general poll re the forum and its effect on real world VMX .

When in Australia I race other peoples bikes ( and OMG I actually have raced EVO in Australia even at a nats  ) so I have no say on what the bike is built from , im just grateful for the kindness of the person lending me a bike .

I have my own views on your governing body and its representatives and when I want to share them I will both on here and at the track . I pay my licence fees ( one event licences in my case )  like anybody else and agree by doing so to play by the rules laid down by the issuer , but like any consumer I will give feedback good or bad .

Surely the measure of the poll is showing that forum talk is just that FORUM TALK  I and im sure most other people on here have no intention of attacking anyone PERSONALY, Nathan summed that up well in a now locked thread , Spend a week in my job if I considered every threat I get at work to be personal  I would have quit years ago ( and that's real world in your face threats not cyber talk ).

This is a privately owned and well moderated forum so why cant people let others have their say without taking it all personally   , if you don't like it don't open it simple  start you own thread on torturing primates or something 

[William Doe]

Hope nobody takes offence but this  thread Forum Scaremongering  and its poll is a general thread about the impact of forum discussion on real world VMX .

I have opened another thread EVO Business to discuss EVO matters

[Shane W]

Bill your point is valid.

I voted yes but that is what democracy is all about. I voted yes because the carry on from the nationals, (re the Evo class) this year was wholly and solely from events that transpired on this forum. So if you need evidence then there it is.

I was only ever going to ride 2 classes at the nationals and I opted out of evo, not because I did not think my bike would pass but from all the backlash that was being caused form comments on here.

Good pole though.


   

[211]

Ok blame JT and myself for this fiasco It doesn't bother either of us one bit. We and others know who did.

I will cop whatever the rules may be, always have , always will. What I am having a problem with is that in '05 '07 '11 '14 when there was a perfect opportunity to clear this up , the Commission chose to sit on their hands and do nothing.

With respect may I formally ask the Commissioner why?

( Simply saying there has never been a protest before is most likely that all EVO winners were on EVO legal bikes as I understand it. )

Ted,
I could ask the same question. Why didnt the riders ask or at least on one of the 25 occasions I have been the chief scruitineer at VMX events either post Classic or just Classis & pull me asside and tell me that there was a looming problem? I would have thought that at some stage every single machine in Australia that competes at a VMX event I would at some stage of the game checked for eligibility - the rider present only had to ask. Even a slight hint - but nothing.
DT

[211]

This claim that if you don't race evo your opinion doesn't count is B.S.( does 211 race evo on a regular basis ?)
The rules need to be defined not only for the racer but also for the officials, who potentially have to deal with this on a race day.
I don,t race evo, but I am an level 2 official, and if someone protested a Bike that had major components from a later era bike they would win each time. I would apply the rules very different to 211, so where does that leave the rider?

Evo550
1/ yes I race Evo - since 1996 before it was in the GCRs, when Im not racing Im probably the starter (Crystal Brook was the last time, I was also the Chief scruitineer) Both those require a level 4
2/ Re you quote about protest. You would be in error and the rider loosing such a protest would have a right of appeal. So, all that said give me your take on what the later era bike comment means? I would apreciate the education of the aplication of the word Era to Evolution and how it applies. Connect the dots for me so I understand please.
DT
ps you know who I am - who are you?

[William Doe]

Bill your point is valid.

I voted yes but that is what democracy is all about. I voted yes because the carry on from the nationals, (re the Evo class) this year was wholly and solely from events that transpired on this forum. So if you need evidence then there it is.

I was only ever going to ride 2 classes at the nationals and I opted out of evo, not because I did not think my bike would pass but from all the backlash that was being caused form comments on here.

Good pole though.


   

Thanks for the feedback Shane  you raise a very valid point . I stepped out of pre 78 125 at the Connondale nats ( to concentrate on other classes ) for much the same reason 
I think that was the event where i saw you walk away from a crash on the big CR 500 that would have killed  2 ordinary men 

[Ted]

Ok blame JT and myself for this fiasco It doesn't bother either of us one bit. We and others know who did.

I will cop whatever the rules may be, always have , always will. What I am having a problem with is that in '05 '07 '11 '14 when there was a perfect opportunity to clear this up , the Commission chose to sit on their hands and do nothing.

With respect may I formally ask the Commissioner why?

( Simply saying there has never been a protest before is most likely that all EVO winners were on EVO legal bikes as I understand it. )

Ted,
I could ask the same question. Why didnt the riders ask or at least on one of the 25 occasions I have been the chief scruitineer at VMX events either post Classic or just Classis & pull me asside and tell me that there was a looming problem? I would have thought that at some stage every single machine in Australia that competes at a VMX event I would at some stage of the game checked for eligibility - the rider present only had to ask. Even a slight hint - but nothing.
DT

Ok I'll be courteous and answer your question.

I and I'll bet lots of others didn't ask you personally the question about Evo eligibility because up until just prior to this years Post Classic Nats you hadn't come out and said what your interpretation of the wording was. Plenty had prompted you to do so years ago, but no, nothing from you. With no clear and concise definition coming from the Commission, I / We thought the Evo eligibility rules were as WE understood. Now knowing what your interpretation is and always has been is the reason for my question.

You now have my answer, so now may I have yours.

Why did the Commission not clear this up when prompted years ago?

Regards

Ted Brack

[211]

Ted
doing my best, it just hadnt come to me or anyone else that I come across - honestly, Ive never been asked however Ive been asked 100s possibly 1000s of other questions on varoius matters directly and through the Commission process.
If the matter had been raised with me I would have had a chance to offer advice. Its as simple as that. But remember on the occasions I have offered advice there are quite a few examples where Ive been smashed by those who only see one side of the arguement or the other. This isnt the only occasion why the forum has kicked the shit out of me.
I guess at the end of the day, hand on the heart, thats what it boils down to.
You have to see it from my side - consider all the nationals both DT and MX i have been the scruitineer and all 1000s of bikes. Not once has anyone asked what I have seen out there and just what pecentage of the bikes fit the proposed new requirements and what dont - not once.
Too many wanting to play the man rather than the issue.
DT