A proposed new way to score races

[HeavenVMX]

Yep I was trying to over complicate it

[GMC]

Are you using the  Kobayashi Maru Algorithm? 

I did chuckle


A good concept that has been bounced around a few times before.
Firstly forget about the rule book, just run it at club days and see how it goes.
I believe all classes should be tested at club days before being considered for the Nationals.
Plus it doesn’t have that much relevance at a National now since the split as the age gap of the bikes isn’t that great.

The only real problem I foresee with such a class is determining the age of a bike.
Establishing whether a Maico or CZ is a 72 or 73 model is one thing but what do you do with the 78 Honda CR that has been fitted with 83 model forks?

[Andrew L]

Are you using the  Kobayashi Maru Algorithm? 

I did chuckle

The only real problem I foresee with such a class is determining the age of a bike.
Establishing whether a Maico or CZ is a 72 or 73 model is one thing but what do you do with the 78 Honda CR that has been fitted with 83 model forks?

]

effluent stirrer

[Gippslander]

A race is a race, first over the line wins and it should stay that way.

If you are old and worn out and are at the tail end of the field then you are obviously still riding because you enjoy getting out and giving the bike a run and spending time with the old mates.

No matter how you look at it the guys that can go fast deserve to win.

We should be encouraging younger blokes to ride the old bikes in every way we can or else the sport will inevitably die out as we die out.

If you want to  reward (encourage?) the greybeards then give out a trophy each race meeting for the "best scoring over 50 rider" or something similar.

[Ted]

A race is a race, first over the line wins and it should stay that way.

If you are old and worn out and are at the tail end of the field then you are obviously still riding because you enjoy getting out and giving the bike a run and spending time with the old mates.

No matter how you look at it the guys that can go fast deserve to win.

We should be encouraging younger blokes to ride the old bikes in every way we can or else the sport will inevitably die out as we die out.

If you want to  reward (encourage?) the greybeards then give out a trophy each race meeting for the "best scoring over 50 rider" or something similar.

I'm with you on that one. How pathetic would Peter Brock or Dick Johnson had of looked if they complained about Skaifey or Lowndes taking races off them purely on the age difference.

If you're  good enough youre old enough.

[Mick D]

Suggest changing the name of the thread to
"Wouldn't you like to go home with a trophy too?"

To me its just expecting more work from those who already bust their asses to put on events for us.
And don't forget, so many do nothing except expect it

I thought this was a long the lines of why we already have age races sometimes.

I reckon if your not happy about the privilege of growing old and still being able to play in the dirt, crawl under a rock die.

[GMC]

It’s all just a bit of fun
Fun, remember that, the reason why we ride & race, along with a sense of achievement and some bragging rights against your mates
It doesn’t take anything away from the outright winners.

Did you never have a handicap race at a club day? An official on the day gives the slowest riders a headstart in an all-in race in an effort to see everyone get to the line at the same time. Usually makes for a fun dramatic finish to end the day for both spectators and riders.

Remember the State teams race at the end of the Broadford Nationals, it didn’t take away anything form anyones titles and they were one of the best races of the weekend as all the best riders were all in together with a close to full grid. Didn’t need anything in a rule book to put it on and there was a lot of ad-libbing in deciding who was going to race for which State but everyone seemed to enjoy it at the time.

If Bathurst had of used a handicap system for the smaller cars it may have made it a bit more interesting than all the teams using the same running gear under the car, the same graphics outside the car, with just a few different sponsor names in amongst the splash graphics.

[Mick D]

Its nether been about anything other than the fun.
The moment the fun is out or becomes too tarnished by those continually unwilling to accept the boundaries between classes, I'm out.

I like the novelty of the idea.
But our NSW meetings are growing and running so exceptional well because of the continued efforts and hard work of the usual minority who run the meetings, and same old faces at working bees etc. I for one owe these people a debt, thank you.

I don't think its fair to expect more off them.

[Mick D]

To me the fun is about the duel with the bloke next to me,
The bloke who just overtook me or the bloke I am about to overtake,
At this stage absolutely nothing else, I honestly don't care about who came first or second let alone look at me, cause on corrected times,,,,,,,,,,,, the word wank now springs to mind
The fun for me is only and always the fight to get in front of the next guy beside me or in front of me.
just the way it is for me anyhow And I like it, thats the only reason I am here.

[Mick D]

And the pure thrill of hanging on to an engine with the trigger held snuggly in my right hand

[KTM47]

I think the idea of handicaps has it's place at club level but probably not at National level.  However I do think something needs to happen to encourage the older riders with old machines Pre 60 to Pre 70 to bring them out.  It doesn't even have to be to race them. 

I don't believe a younger rider (even riders around 55) should be racing these bikes for National Championships, it really doesn't mean much to me.  Maybe a concourse with points awarded, then points for authenticity of rider and machine (including riding gear).  Then a handicap race, with the handicap worked out combining rider and bike age.

Just a thought.

[William Doe]

There is some merit in something like this however it can't happen now until the 2016 rule book.  Currently we do have age groups in EVO (in Post Classic) and Pre 75 (in Classic) as well as a separate races for the overall Championship.  Although the results on the Mylaps website don't show this for the Aust Post Classic Champs or the Qld Classic and Post Classic Champs.

There is no point having a different system if the people doing the work can't handle it.  Please note the results for age groups can be shown correctly but for whatever reason they aren't.

Personally I have previously put a view forward that the older classes Pre 60, Pre 65 & Pre 70 should have a timed handicap system that is worked out by adding the age of the rider and bike together.  Highest number starts 1st etc.  What 65 plus year old wants to race against a 30 to 40 plus year old who may not have even been born when the bike was new.

There is nothing wrong with the current age groups as well as a combined overall, it just has to be given a reasonable chance to succeed.  Also the minimum number to constitute a Championship class needs to be dropped to maybe 6 instead of 10.  The groups for EVO also don't need to be changed to Pre 85.  The EVO classes had the highest entry numbers of all the classes at PCMXC at Toowoomba.

Of course the main thing here is K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid)

Kevin

As usual the MA association forks another potentiol idea before it gets any legs  With an aging rider population riders in their 50s,60s, 70s lets wait another couple of years before we can try anything 

[William Doe]

I think the current age group classes already have this covered . As Ted says it smacks a bit of modern world thinking that everyone has to be a winner or its not fair .
On the forum at least ( not sure about the real world )people cant agree on the definition of the EVO rules . so i can see this being very easy to manipulate and hard to regulate .
I can see the novelty value of it though and if a club wants to give it go all power to them.

I am all for recognising anyone who still races over the age of 60 and over 70s you blokes are absolute legends , Respect  For our up coming series we are giving free entry to all riders over 60yrs and a stand alone 60 yrs plus class where the competitors will decide on race format and handicaping etc between themselves on the day .

[HeavenVMX]

I feel that this scoring system has a lot of merit for club level competition for certain events.

Racing is racing and the fastest rider wins BUT at club level there is always room for alternatives to add a fun factor and get riders that don't normally ride against each other on the track at the same time. Lets face it if you ride 250 Pre75 at 8 meetings a year at a club there are usually a few 'place getters' who most riders know are battling for the win. This system could be used on some occassions to shake things up maybe suddenly the rider on the '71 model who is 65yo is in the hunt against the young! 40yo 'gun' on the '74 model . Not every race or even every meeting but on some accassions. Added interest and throws up variations to the normal outcomes.

These handicap systems have been used in many many sports very succesfully. They need to be simple, easy to administer and easy to understand.
Golf, sailing, shooting, tennis, speedway, horse racing, drag racing and many others all use some form of handicaping in some events NOT  ALL  EVENTS is the key here.

Imagine at club meeting running the Pre70, 75 and 78 bikes together around a grass track. score each class seperately and award 1st, 2nd & 3rd FATL in each and then also use this scoring system to award 1,2 & 3 handicap. You can not tell me people would not be interested to see how they go.

In this case all Pre75s would be deemed '74 models and the same for the other two ERAs. Yes the fastest rider on probably the fastest Pre78 would win outright but who would win on handicap???

[William Doe]

If wanted to win a handicaped race i would enter the special olympics *** Winners will always be winners and its nice to have the rest along to help pay the expenses of running a meeting 

**** does not apply to racers over 60 yrs , your all champions