A proposed new way to score races

[Mick D]

If wanted to win a handicaped race i would enter the special olympics *** Winners will always be winners and its nice to have the rest along to help pay the expenses of running a meeting 

**** does not apply to racers over 60 yrs , your all champions 

On this one, I find myself in one hundred per cent agreeing on both accounts

I enjoy these gathering/meetings for the social aspect as well, which takes time too.
I am already struggling to find the fun in must doo's, such as flagging duties and track maintenance.
I for one am not interested in doing extra choirs, I go to events to escape it.

If some of you guys want to put your hand up for even more work?? go for it, knock yourselves out.
Why over complicate You don't have to go home with a piece of plastic, I don't think that is where the fun lays or lies or whatever.

I am all for recognising anyone who still races over the age of 60 and over 70s you blokes are absolute legends , Respect  For our up coming series we are giving free entry to all riders over 60yrs and a stand alone 60 yrs plus class where the competitors will decide on race format and handicaping etc between themselves on the day .

I reckon that would be a great way of keeping some old buzzards on their old bikes around, including this one in four years time

[KTM47]

I think the current age group classes already have this covered . As Ted says it smacks a bit of modern world thinking that everyone has to be a winner or its not fair .
On the forum at least ( not sure about the real world )people cant agree on the definition of the EVO rules . so i can see this being very easy to manipulate and hard to regulate .
I can see the novelty value of it though and if a club wants to give it go all power to them.

I am all for recognising anyone who still races over the age of 60 and over 70s you blokes are absolute legends , Respect  For our up coming series we are giving free entry to all riders over 60yrs and a stand alone 60 yrs plus class where the competitors will decide on race format and handicaping etc between themselves on the day .

Would you provide free return airfare to Un Zed and bike as well.

Kevin

[William Doe]

I think the current age group classes already have this covered . As Ted says it smacks a bit of modern world thinking that everyone has to be a winner or its not fair .
On the forum at least ( not sure about the real world )people cant agree on the definition of the EVO rules . so i can see this being very easy to manipulate and hard to regulate .
I can see the novelty value of it though and if a club wants to give it go all power to them.

I am all for recognising anyone who still races over the age of 60 and over 70s you blokes are absolute legends , Respect  For our up coming series we are giving free entry to all riders over 60yrs and a stand alone 60 yrs plus class where the competitors will decide on race format and handicaping etc between themselves on the day .

Would you provide free return airfare to Un Zed and bike as well.

Kevin

Kev if i win the lottery tonight your on  i can however offer you free entry i think you qualify on both counts now as an international and a senior legend 

No licences required ( however we are happy to sell anyone who feels the need for a licence a piece of paper for $150.00 witch will be refunded at the end of the meeting as long as you have had a good time 

I have a mate down country who has a shed full of really cool bikes including a number of Maicos , and there must be a couple with your numer on them 

All joking aside , always happy to see visitors from the west island who want to enjoy a bit of low cost no fuss old bike racing 

[Rossvickicampbell]

I actually like the idea if it contributes to getting more people out there - trophies or not.  On another thread I mentioned it was only a matter of time before the "sheepstation" crowd came out and started poo pooing the "out for a ride" guys.  Just remember - especially as people get older - the percentage of guys out for a ride increases and if you don't accommodate for them it all stops.  Funny think that may have happened in the last couple of years.

Saying that - this would be good at a club level - if you raced for points, WA doesn't bother - but wonder about Nats events.

Rossco

[Graeme M]

GMC
Good point and obviously one for discussion but common sense would suggest that for this additional scoring system, you would deem the official age of the bike by its model year or if modified with later components (deemed to be significant e.g. forks, motor, brakes etc.....) then the year would become the latter. So using your example, a 78 would in that case be deemed an 83 model.

Gippslander
If you read the proposal thoroughly, it does not replace anything but is an additional system, so the fast guys, young or old will still be fast & still pick up the silverware, no change. This idea is to encourage the 'others majority' who make up the numbers at meetings who typically finish in the slowest 66%. Events will be much healthier with full 40 starter grids than 10 or 12 etc. And as another example, if a young fast guy who just cant knock of the top 2 or 3 chooses to buy an 86 or 87 model bike rather than an 89 to compete with, then he/she still might get a podium over the line but gets a real good chance to win on handicap results.

Ted
This idea is in addition to not replacing anything. no one will be complaining about the fast guys winning, they would still be doing what they do best, that is not & will never be under threat.

[albrid-3]

I do agree with Geoff Morris, back in the 60`s and 70`s there where always handicap races. clerk of the course did the handicap race grading. he would take notice of the slow and fast riders on the day, and grade it accordly.

[Rossvickicampbell]

WA still runs handicap races.  At the premier Wandering Event the final, and major, race of the day is a handicap - and it is awesome to watch with all grades out there 

[KTM47]

I do believe handicap races are great.  One of the 1st race I won was a handicap in 1974.  I was on a 1974 Maico  250 and was C Grade.  The C Graders started 1st 15 secs in front of the A & B Graders.  I lead from the start and lapped a A Grade rider (Vern Grayson) on the 2nd or 3rd lap who had fallen on the 1st lap.  Anyway Vern stayed with and eventually unlapped himself with a lap to go.  The other A & B Graders didn't catch me.  For some reason the ACUQ grading committee moved me to B Grade after that.

Anyway Handicap races do have a place.  However for the popular classes EVO, Pre 75 and maybe even Pre 78 and eventually Pre 85  I believe age groups are the way to go, at the Australian Classic and Post Classic MX and probably DT to.  I'm not involved in Classic DT so I haven't got the right to comment on it.

Having said this I do believe something needs to happen to encourage the older riders and bikes (Pre 60 to Pre 70) to come to National Championship.  Handicap racing and other things (concourse etc) could encourage that.

Just another point the system proposed depends on the use of transponders and the people operating the system being able to do the handicapping etc.  It also adds another cost.

Kevin

[supersenior 50]

Transponders will become the norm even down to club level. Volunteers are increasingly hard to come by. It will cost no more to include the suggested system. The system proposed is automatic so once punched into the computor takes no extra work and is not open to abuse as suggested. It is a set formular, not a variable handicap.To say that it has to wait till the 2016 MoMs is a nonsence, it can be included as a support event or run concurrently tomorrow.
To liken our situation to Brock/Skaife is missing the point, particularly from one who doesn't ride but puts a young gun on his bike. This young gun is a good kid and is very welcome and only used to make a point when it's suggested we old guys cant hack it.
Bottom line is it is a good suggestion, chewed to near death on the foum. The intent is clear, an extra fun dimension to our sport with no perceivable downside.
I'll report back when I've tried it.

[yzhilly]

We had a handicap race ,last round of the day at the Thumpercross last year .on transponder  times from the previous races .Staggered start and the fast guys didn't get thru till the last lap . Good fun race and the slow guys pushed a bit faster being at the pointy end for a little while .

[Graeme M]

Well, looking at the poll results, while it's not a huge response, it does look like there is enthusiasm and interest in the idea. I am not sure what could happen from here, perhaps our innovative thinker who proposed this might look at how to take it forwards...

For anyone who wants to know what the proposal was, check out Page 1 of this thread.

http://forum.ozvmx.com/index.php?topic=35072.0

[John Orchard]

If you are looking at 'points scoring' for either a 'series' or 'overall winner over a weekend' I feel one must take into consideration the number of riders in the race.  Someone that beats 40 riders deserves more than someone that only has to beat 6 riders.

If you win a race with 40 starters you get 39 points, if you finish 38th you get 2 points.  If you win a race with 6 starters, you get 5 points, if a riders comes 5th in the race he gets 1 point.

Big fish in a little pond is not a big fish.

[bazza]

Auckland go to start line,handicapp your self,go racing have fun.

PS  what is a rule book?

[Brian Watson]

What happens JO..when you get to the third heat of an event ..there were 40 guys on the line for the first heat..then the third heat you only have 10 starters???... I think the existing points scoring works well.. when you try to weight results / finishing place / bike / age / how fat you are.... with all sorts of permutations..it gets messy..

[KTM47]

Really it is better to use the KISS principal.  Kept It Simple Stupid.

We aren't Juniors who love to take a bit of plastic gold to school for show and tell.  Even that wears thin pretty quickly.  A lot of VMX club days in SE Qld aren't even scored.  I haven't heard anyone complaining (or volunteering to do the scoring).

State and National Championships are the only ones that count.  But everyone do what suits them.

Events like the Goodwood Festival of Speed have a mix of both competition and demonstration events.  It is more about celebrating the past.

Kevin