Rulebook adjustments

[magoo]

I've been having a brief look through the MA MOMS and reckon there are a couple of things that need changing. We have Pre '65, '70, '75 and '78 all clearly defined but not quite the same with evo. The rules are basically drum brakes, air cooled, non linkage suspension. I reckon there should also be a starting date of 1978 model and later because if you follow those letters to the law any pre '78, '75 etc qualify as well.

Also, Pre '85 should have a clause stating it is only open to bikes that don't qualify for any of the earlier classes. I notice that the Pre'85 Nationals was won by an evo bike. The guy that won it would win on a pushbike he's that good, and according to the rules he wasn't riding up a class. To me, the rules should be clearly defined and riding up classes should not be allowed at State and National title meetings.

I'm on the N.S.W. Classic Dirt Sports Commission and am asking for constructive comment / debate on any matter so I can take it to the Board of Directors to make our little corner of the world better, so go for it.

[gorby]

good on ya magoo,there are a few things we all whinge about but all it should take is for a few properley worded submissions from each state to get things rolling.

and this one for a start,just what does this rule refer to and why,
g.c.r. 12.8.8.5

A counter shaft sprocket which is more than 30 mm from the outside of the swingarm pivot must be covered.


If I read between the lines,it may have been introduced for open primary drives and protection from sidecar passengers fingers?
If not please someone enlighten me.
In our section(Classic MX and Dirt track )how could your foot get in there,and if its the fingers they are worried about,then theres a big sprocket out the back

[Husky500evo]

To my way of thinking , the first part of the Evolution class eligibility rules , which states that all bikes will be O.E.M , causes confusion . This can be taken by some to mean that hybrids are not allowed . The Evo class as I see it was designed to have minimal rules , being just : 1. Drum brakes , 2. Air cooled motor & 3. No linkage on the rear suspension . I may be a bit liberal in my thinking , but I think that the above rules should  define the components that can be used as : 1. Any front end off any bike that originally came fitted with drum brakes , 2. Any air cooled motor & 3. Use any frame that was originally manufactured with twin shocks (with the only exception being non linkage monoshock Yamahas) .

[magoo]

I agree with the O.E.M thing as well Husky, I meant to add that on before. That's another change I'd like to suggest.

[Rosco400]

Should the EVO exclusion date be capped i.e to 1985, the way i read it a 1992 twin shock air cooled drum brake CZ fits the class. Is this keeping within the spirit?

[Wombat]

And let's remember that massive thread on the '93 Postie bike...again, in the spirit?

[E74]

good on ya magoo,there are a few things we all whinge about but all it should take is for a few properley worded submissions from each state to get things rolling.

and this one for a start,just what does this rule refer to and why,
g.c.r. 12.8.8.5

A counter shaft sprocket which is more than 30 mm from the outside of the swingarm pivot must be covered.


If I read between the lines,it may have been introduced for open primary drives and protection from sidecar passengers fingers?
If not please someone enlighten me.
In our section(Classic MX and Dirt track )how could your foot get in there,and if its the fingers they are worried about,then theres a big sprocket out the back

Well the way I see it,, is that those of us with enormous equipment might just get tangled up in those front sprockets.....

[Lozza]

Which is the whole idea of a log book.If you wish to build a hybrid from scratch the onus of proof lies with YOU.Note the word proof ie period photo's, magazine articles, race results and parts books, not "so and so used to race one". If it was available and raced in the period it should be eleigible to compete.Nonsense OEM rule take away a lot of variety JMO

[Husky500evo]

If your enormous equipment was that long ,then you would expect the girth to be more than 30mm & therefore not get stuck in the front sprocket  .

[mxmaniac]

Hey Magoo.. what do u think the pre 85 guidelines should be? From what year to 1984?

[mxmaniac]

 There would be bugger all Pre 85's in 263 and over as a 81 490 maico, yz465,s 81 model husky's ,81 KTM495's etc, would be pulled from pre 85
All of them bikes qualify for EVO..
Do u think old mate on his RM400 79 or cr 250 rz would prefer to have all these bikes to beat in his EVO race?

[BAHNZY]

I have raised this issue before at various times and this is how I personally see it in the most simplest way that I can explain. Evolution (I believe) covers a time frame from around 1977 to 1982, or thereabouts. To lump all bikes into one class does not make a great deal of sense given the overall bike performance variations. In most parts of the world where I have researched this, the class is broken in pre/post 1981 to capture the performance variations.
In my mind I see that the definition of the classes for Evolution and Pre85 has not got to the point where the Pre78 and prior rules are at the moment. Please don’t see this as anything other than the evolution (pardon the pun) of the rule book. There is no doubt that sometime back the rules for Pre78 & prior where once like the Evolution and Pre85 are today. As a discussion point I put forward this matrix out for comment.



So as I was once ostracised & condemned by some individuals who did not take the time to understand what they were actually reading, I will spell it out in simple terms once again.
The people at MA, their state affiliates and sub committees don’t decide at a meeting one night that they are going to change the rules because they feel like it. The rules are changed/modified after the riders submit changes, in writing, to the MA sub-committee. They are then considered and discussed at all levels as to wether the proposed changes will be accepted and included in the upcoming edition of the GCR MOM. So if you want change, put pen to paper and do something about it.

When it comes to the current 2008 GCR’s and the interpretation of them. I see it something like this;
Bikes will be OEM
There was a complete thread on this some time back and the 20 plus people that responded couldn’t agree on what was OEM so what chance is there of getting this understood by the MX community in general.

Modifications converting later equipment to comply will not be allowed.
Self explanatory and strait forward.

All components will be of the period the machine was manufactured.
a) No linkage suspension,
b) No Disc brakes,
c) Air cooled motors.
In the case of Pre85 there are a few anomalies, one being , as an example, the understanding that any bike manufactured from 1983 onwards (in general terms) can be fitted with a front disc brake regardless of the make & model as they were available in the period the bike was manufactured. Eg: The 1983 KX range was fitted with a disc brake. Some may argue that a properly set up twin leading shoe system would be better than the 1st versions of the disc, but nerveless, it can be fitted.

So whilst we have the same train of thought, where do the following components fall into the Spirt Of The ERA?
- Aftermarket Reed Blocks
- Aftermarket rear shocks with more adjustments than a play station console.
- Late model exhaust mufflers
- Hydraulic clutch kit conversions
- Performance valving options for forks that never had then in the 1st place
- Aftermarket digital ignitions
- Billet backing plates for drum brakes
- 2008 build aftermarket swing arms modelled on units that were available in the day
- Excel rims
- Heavy duty aftermarket Stainless Steel spokes
and the list goes on.

Please don’t bring out the old nugget, “If it can’t be seen then it isn’t an issue” as it just doesn’t cut it when you talk about the “Sprit Of The ERA” and a rule book.

So I pose this question.
If Ohlins, WP, Showa, etc, were to produce a set of 46mm conventional forks specifically for the Pre85 movement, under the following conditions,
- The forks were not based on any specific fork as made available to the OEM’s
- The forks were never fitted to any production bike.
- They are sold only as a aftermarket accessory.
Now before you answer the question, think about the availability of rear shocks and the various combinations that are available today, that were not available back in the day.
Would these forks be o/k to use?

The point Magoo raises is valid. There is no reason that a Pre78 model bike (using the GCR 18.7.6.1 refering to machines being acceptable where the model remains unaltered after this date) could be raced concurrently in Pre78, Evolution and Pre85 classes. The fact that Shaun rode an EVO bike in the Pre85 class at the Nationals and won both classes already proves this but it does highlight the issue, should bikes be able to compete upwards in the class classification. By the way, Shaun could ride a postie bike in that class and still win.

The other issue that I think needs attention is the inclusion of age classes for Evolution and Pre85 which is not permitted in the 08 GCR’s

[Macca#35]

Oh Magoo you've done it again!
Very interesting reading, lets hope its all constructive idea's and doesn't end in a slagging match.
I believe when Bahnsy brought up the evo question a while ago it was to get some ideas to sort out the gcr's.

In my understanding we may be already be too late to change 2008 rule book, but lets look ahead at sort it out once and for all!

I think we should just ride the old bikes and have fun and at the end of the day have a beer and a laugh. It only goes to crap when people get too serious.
Macca 

[Wombat]

I think we should just ride the old bikes and have fun and at the end of the day have a beer and a laugh. It only goes to crap when people get too serious.
 

Amen to that. 

[Hoony]

............................. at the end of the day have a beer and a laugh. ..........Macca 

This from a well known over excessive beer drinker, Hey MegaMan