Author Topic: Rulebook adjustments  (Read 21049 times)

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Offline Nathan S

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Re: Rulebook adjustments
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2008, 06:34:03 pm »
Here were my suggestions last time this came up:

Quote
The fixes are relatively easy:

1. List the parts that are considered to be major components (ie: the bits that define the bike as being of its era - frames, engine cases and forks vs lever assemblies, tyres and rims);

2. Re-format it so that the later classes are not just 'add-ons' to the original pre-75 classes. This can be done either by listing the common-to-all-era rules at the start and then have separate sub-sections for the individual eras' specific rules, or by incorporating them into the original format;

3. Make a blanket statement that either says "No modifications to major components are allowed unless permitted by these regs" or "Any modification is allowed unless otherwise prohibited by these regs". Ka-pow, you've killed all of the grey areas that create confusion/angst/protests/inadvertent cheats/deliberate cheats.
Alternatively, list each component and the mods/replacement available to it (but this is probably too laborious).

4. Clearly define what is an acceptable replica of a major component.

5. Make it clear whether the lists of acceptable bikes is 'some of the acceptable bikes', 'the ones you don't need to prove' or 'all of the acceptable bikes'. 18.9.0.3 (the equivalent list for sidecars) makes it clear (in that case its 'the ones you don't need to prove').

There's a lot of other small detail things too, but that's the meat of it.


I'm not trying to change the intent of any of the rules - in fact, the opposite is true. I simply want both the intent and boundaries to be clear to everyone with basic comprehension skills, without have to resort to finding and asking people who are 'in the know'.

I stand by all of the above, but have some further thoughts:

I've been reading Classic Dirt Bike, and I am increasingly dismayed by what the pommies do to their bikes, particularly their pre-65 trials bikes, which I feel have totally lost any spirit of their era. Hell, CDB #6 has a short artical on a pre-65 trials bike that 'won't be competitive as a pre-65 bike nowdays, but is representative of what bikes were like in the day'...

No, I'm not suggesting that we should limit bikes to 100% stockers, or even 100% "in the day", but that we have the opportunity to keep Australian VMX as a good representation of historic bikes that actually  do a decent job of resembling what they looked like in the day.
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Offline BAHNZY

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Re: Rulebook adjustments
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2008, 05:45:44 pm »
Rod (BAHNZY) Bahn

Offline DJRacing

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Re: Rulebook adjustments
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2008, 08:29:54 pm »
http://www.ma.org.au/Content/MA/NewsEvents/MAReports/MA_Reports_Page.htm

Then look at the top of the May section.


So do I undersatand that "Fox Forx" are going cheap in OZ??  ;D
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Offline BAHNZY

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Re: Rulebook adjustments
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2008, 09:23:02 pm »
Please remember that the rules are up for comment at this stage. Obviously the Fox / Simmons fork diameter has been overlooked in general, but not specifically.

eg:
18.7.12.2 Modifications converting later equipment to comply will not be allowed.
If Fox / Simmons fork diameter were not avalaible when the bike was produced, then accoring to the GCR's they would not be legal.
Rod (BAHNZY) Bahn

Offline Nathan S

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Re: Rulebook adjustments
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2008, 09:33:05 pm »
I reckon the idea of the proposal is to stop people fitting later model components to their Evo bikes.
As I've said before, an 08 KTM with the water jackets hacked off and some drum brake wheels fitted up is an Evo-legal bike, even though its got nothing to do with vintage MX.

So I think the proposal is well intended.

This gets back to the Moto100 discussion: Simplistic rules fall down over time.

The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

magoo

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Re: Rulebook adjustments
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2008, 09:59:24 pm »
I still don't see any problem with fitting any conventional drum brake forks to an Evo bike. It makes the bike that little bit better to ride without taking away the integrity of the era. Like I said, it's legal to fit $3,000 Fox Forx but not $200 OEM forks.

Offline DJRacing

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Re: Rulebook adjustments
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2008, 10:48:32 pm »
This gets back to the Moto100 discussion: Simplistic rules fall down over time.

They only breakdown when someone decides to cheat. Once again more and more rules have to be made when I'm sure we all know what they meant in the first place??

Magoo, just fit the fox's and be done with it  ;)  ;D
« Last Edit: June 20, 2008, 11:19:39 pm by DJRacing »
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Offline Nathan S

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Re: Rulebook adjustments
« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2008, 10:56:49 pm »
I still don't see any problem with fitting any conventional drum brake forks to an Evo bike.

I think that (if adopted) the proposal would still allow this?

And I agree, FWIW. There can't be all that many drum-brake forks that came from non-Evo bikes that are actually better than the best Evo-bike forks?

The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline mxmaniac

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Re: Rulebook adjustments
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2008, 11:36:55 pm »
It is alot of peoples hobby to spend the cash on customising there VMX bikes for the love of there machine.. to make them that bit different to the others and get personal satisfaction out of them.. not for the sole purpose of winning the world vmx title...
 For both types of people who are not really competetive or full blow goin for there 10th sheep station.. would it mean that you couldn't compete if u had 'illegal' forks or shock or whatever the case may be in a national/state points scoring event?
Or would u not be eligable for points but can still compete in the event and run the risk of messing up a 'Legal' machined riders chance of points? I would wonder if old mate with his Fox forks or whatever took u out in the first corner and he was on an 'illegal' bike cause an up-roar between the vmx police?
 From a different angle,I know i enjoy walking through the pits checkin out all the trick bits and seeing the different types of bikes setup etc  also watching how they perform differently on the track, viewing from the sidelines.
If it was to change, i think It would be like walkin into a car park full of stock commodores.. :(
« Last Edit: June 21, 2008, 05:18:14 pm by mxmaniac »
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Offline BAHNZY

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Re: Rulebook adjustments
« Reply #39 on: June 21, 2008, 07:06:28 pm »
MXMANIC,
I still stand by the old nuggets;
- Run what ya brung
- Build it and we'll find a class for you to run it

Personally i don't particulary care what you do with the bike as long as it is in the spirit of the era but unfortunitly there are individuals that dont see it like that. There are 2 groups of riders that can make it difficult. The first one is the individual that goes all out to flaunt the rules to gain an advantage and the second is the rider that doesn't finish a race at the pointy end, has all the excuses for not being there and away from the race track makes out that they are the current series champion.

So when they are unhappy about things in general they protest to their local series organiser or controlling body. All organistaions, not just VMX have had to deal with individuals like this and it is an on-going challenge to stay one step ahead of them.

To be able to deal with these people/situations we need a rule book that is not open to interpretation and is clear about what can and can't be done. In the case of EVO and Pre85 GCR's they are in their infancy and will get sorted in time, but only if people extract a digit and do something about it.

As in previous years i ask (sorry plead) that if you have suggestions that you write to the responsible commissioner expressing your views. Like wise, if you don't agree with the suggested changes that have been put forward, that you contact your groups committee and express your views.
Rod (BAHNZY) Bahn

magoo

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Re: Rulebook adjustments
« Reply #40 on: June 21, 2008, 07:20:34 pm »
So far Bahnsy, this thread has been incredibly helpful. Nearly all postings have been constructive which shows a new found maturity among the punters. I am going to put an edited version to the MA Commission for a bit of tweaking so thanks guys, this has been great. Some really well thought out opinions from Bahnsy and Nathan which can only be good for the sport.

Offline mxmaniac

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Re: Rulebook adjustments
« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2008, 10:45:05 am »
Ha ha ha ha ha.. Bahnsy.. Are u rockin backward and forwards in the corner curled up in a little ball.. repeating ya self over and over suckin on ya 120th alchopop.. i was aiming to get the longest running post..  ;D
I know exactly what You were sayin!   :D  :D  :D


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oz555ktm

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Re: Rulebook adjustments
« Reply #42 on: July 01, 2008, 08:45:14 pm »
I just read all of this and just like a lot of other guys may have not read this or any of this subject ..

So Magoo be for you go to Ma and change any of the rule book .
You do need to get more input  than this forum .
You need to bring it up at a vmx race meeting .

you cannot go and change somethink arfter hearing 5 or 6 people .

You know my number

magoo

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Re: Rulebook adjustments
« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2008, 10:00:42 pm »
I sure do, it's 555

Offline BAHNZY

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Re: Rulebook adjustments
« Reply #44 on: July 04, 2008, 10:03:16 pm »
So aside from the posting by DJRacing there has been little said about the gazetted, for discussion changes. My purpose of placing the fork diameter issue was to get some action/talk/movement/anything on the rules in general, but no concern from too many people at this stage.
Rod (BAHNZY) Bahn