Hired guns at Aussie titles.

[Paul552]

do you bring in a owner /rider rule? Are the kids hounding the owners of these bikes for a ride or the other way?

quote]

 Excluding future talent is surely the death knell.

For sure!!!

[firko]

3. Pre 78 needs age groups ASAP.

Absolutely....introduce age groups in pre 78 and watch that division boom.

4. Pre 85 and Pre 90 will need them too at some stage.

See above quote. The removal of age groups had a serious downward effect on VMX in the late 90's. I think our sport has learned a hard lesson from that...."if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

  Pre 60, Pre 65 and Pre 70 also need something. After all to the riders who raced these bike when they were new someone under 55 is young. Either awards for each age group (regardless of entry numbers) or have the races as handicap races with the handicap determined by adding the bike and rider's ages together.

Pre 70 is going pretty well but pre 65 and pre 60 could be vastly improved by a further softening of the eligibility criteria. I'm not calling for wholesale changes, just a slight softening of the flow on rules that will make it far easier to find eligible bikes/engines. I was stoked to see 'twenty something' Stacey Heaney riding her dad Des's Triumph Metisse in pre 65. She's the off duty paramedic that attended my cut leg and apparently she's a regular on the big Metisse. If we can get young guys (30-40) interested in these very cool old bikes those classes will stay viable.

Also is it time for a concourse at these meetings. There are a lot of bikes out there that their owners think are too good (nice) to race. Maybe something to get these guys involved.

I've been saying that for twenty years. Bring 'em out and show them off and perhaps cut some parade laps at lunch time, similar to the Triumph display at last weekends Nats.

Back to the original topic.........

[TM BILL]

Pre 70 is going pretty well but pre 65 and pre 60 could be vastly improved by a further softening of the eligibility criteria. I'm not calling for wholesale changes, just a slight softening of the flow on rules that will make it far easier to find eligible bikes/engines. I was stoked to see 'twenty something' Stacey Heaney riding her dad Des's Triumph Metisse in pre 65. She's the off duty paramedic that attended my cut leg and apparently she's a regular on the big Metisse. If we can get young guys (30-40) interested in these very cool old bikes those classes will stay viable.

Agreed

[Ted]

It's pretty simple. Set a criteria 1,2 or 200 prior rides in VMX, check their pointscore, validated by club secretary and have age trophies. First Second Third overall and then age places 1,2,3

[bazza]

Quote from: firko on Today at 12:06:55 PM
Pre 70 is going pretty well but pre 65 and pre 60 could be vastly improved by a further softening of the eligibility criteria. I'm not calling for wholesale changes, just a slight softening of the flow on rules that will make it far easier to find eligible bikes/engines. I was stoked to see 'twenty something' Stacey Heaney riding her dad Des's Triumph Metisse in pre 65. She's the off duty paramedic that attended my cut leg and apparently she's a regular on the big Metisse. If we can get young guys (30-40) interested in these very cool old bikes those classes will stay viable.


AGREE   soften to help get more bikes in those classes

[KTM47]

Back to the original topic.........
[/quote]

Yes I didn't comment on that part. The so called hired guns add to the meeting. This, it isn't fair to have outside riders come in has been around for ever. Some people think it is unfair when riders from another country come in a win Australian Championships. Gaston Rahier winning three Australian Championships in 1975 was considered by some as unfair. He added to the meeting greatly and improved our riders in leaps and bounds.

Since then and probably before that, riders from the USA have improved our Supercross riders and riders from other countries (NZ, UK and US) have improved our Motocrossers. We now have four riders who will be contesting the World MX Champs next year. One of those riders will be on a works team which is owned by a former F1 World Champion.

What has this got to do with Classic MX. Do you want the best show or a big club day?

Leave the Championships open to anyone with the correct licence. Just also recognise riders in the age groups.

Now if I can just get Todd to race my Maico at Toowoomba. I wouldn't even have to change the number.

[John Orchard]

Are we talking of 'limiting age for National races' or 'National competitors must have ridden State events to be eligible'?

You can't restrict on age for many good reasons given above, where would you draw the line, 28, 34, 38?  Next you'll want to restrict based on how many joint replacements you've had.  It's hard when I (54) have to run against a 22 year old, it's going to be even harder when I'm 70 !!!  But that's life, I wouldn't have it any other way, big boost for my ego when I beat them (helps me keep my young girlfriend too).

You can't have age races if you don't have the numbers, it sickens me at Vic roadracing at the moment where 'trophy hunters' get a second place award with only two in the race, back in the day my trophies were won with 60 bikes in the race!  All racing must abide by the rule 'minimum 10 competitors or no race'.

I think it would be great if riders had to qualify for National Championships at State Champs, but getting the state bodies to regulate & participate in that would be difficult.

Absolutely LOVE the idea of having a bike show combined with an event, if I couldn't ride anymore I'd love to show my bikes off, I know there are many ex riders out there that feel the same.

Maybe there's a reason to have 'demonstrtion races'?  Only need a recreation licence, no sheep stations on the line.

Funny that I don't agree with limiting ages in vmx races but I want to get modern mx age racing off the ground (as per REM in SoCal).  Maybe because vmx has smaller fields and modern mx (the future of our sport) is fading-away because many older guys don't want to take the risks to save-face on the track?  I am also pushing for riders over 50 in modern mx to be able to run with the 'M' prefix on the their race number denoting 'Master', relieving the pressure to have to make that monster double.

[KTM47]

I am also pushing for riders over 50 in modern mx to be able to run with the 'M' prefix on the their race number denoting 'Master', relieving the pressure to have to make that monster double.

Who is approving the tracks in your state. Unless it is SX there shouldn't be any monster doubles.

The practice of apparently using TRAs to approve things that don't comply with the track standards has to be stopped.

[supersenior 50]

Sounds smug, but arent the last two Classic Nats almost a blueprint covering the points made (except for the issue raised in this thread by Brad)?
Age groups are already in for Evo and will apply to the Post Classics in 2014

[Nathan S]

Age groups are already in for Evo and will apply to the Post Classics in 2014

The age races really ought to allow all era bikes (including the newest era) at each Nationals, not just the youngest.
The age races at the CMXNs include four of the five bike eras (and have a long history behind them).
The age races at the PCMXNs include only one of the three bike eras.

Post split, the rules need to be amended to allow age racing for Pre-90, rather than for Evo.
Arguably, they should also allow age racing for Pre-78 rather than Pre-75, but the Pre-75 bit is the long-established status quo, so requires careful consideration before any changes are made.

[09.0]

So who are we talking about again?
Let me spell it out. Hired guns. One event at a national level.
So that excludes simmo's champ that is getting involved, ted's champ's who are obviously welcomed with open arms and all other similar stories. Actually add young Lochie Pratt ( Fox) to that list as well. The subject is about ( for example) the 19 year old that turned up on a borrowed bike for the titles and will come back for next years title as he stated ( only?).
I will say I'm happy to try and chase these young guns down and give myself a pat on my back that I can either keep them honest or beat them. Might be a bit different in a couple of years though when I hit the big five O.
I think Noel's idea in my original post is simple and fair .

[Slakewell]

Maybe a suggestion could be an all inclusive run what you brung age race like super seniors, over 50 over 60?   

[supersenior 50]

Only one era (Pre75) currently has age classes in CMX. Pre75 had by far the strongest entry at the CMX titles.
I put up for Evo age classes at the time I proposed the split in the belief that it would numerically be the strongest in PCMX.
This may prove to be not so in 2014 PCMX. So then if numbers justify, propose age racing in say Pre85 or whatever.
I should point out that if not for the split there'be no Pre90 or age racing possible or PCMX Championships, unless current classes were dropped or going to four day meetings.

[Nathan S]

So who are we talking about again?
Let me spell it out. Hired guns. One event at a national level.
So that excludes simmo's champ that is getting involved, ted's champ's who are obviously welcomed with open arms and all other similar stories. Actually add young Lochie Pratt ( Fox) to that list as well. The subject is about ( for example) the 19 year old that turned up on a borrowed bike for the titles and will come back for next years title as he stated ( only?).
I will say I'm happy to try and chase these young guns down and give myself a pat on my back that I can either keep them honest or beat them. Might be a bit different in a couple of years though when I hit the big five O.
I think Noel's idea in my original post is simple and fair .

What you're proposing is to put some sort of qualifying on entering the Nationals.

TBH, I need to be convinced that this is a real problem, and that the 'solution' won't create more hassles than it solves.
As it stands, the fastest rider wins (basically) - which is exactly what MX is about.
If we start adding in restrictions about rider eligibility, then we detract from the purity of the sport, and we risk a lot of hassles.

I'm not saying that its a bad idea, but I need to be convinced that it improves the sport/event before I can support it.

[firko]

Back when the sport was all pre 75 and there were enough entries and enough time to run the classes we had three age groups (under 30, 30-40 and 40-50) running age capacity races in 125, 250 and 500. Only the over sixty class was an all in age group class. I'd love to see that system back in again but admit that we probably can't fit them in anyore. For the first decade of VMX the age capacity classes were the main game with the all in capacity classes seen as secondary. That attitude stemmed from the original VMX concept that racing your peer age group was what it was all about. I think age groups were the main factor in so many coming into the sport in the formative years.