Hired guns at Aussie titles.

[firko]

This is a tough one. There was a time not that long ago when I was dead set against young racers competing in VMX. My worry was that while it's fun to see these kids ride the wheels off old bikes, they win at the expense of an older rider who's involved in VMX because he has a connection to the era and a genuine love of old bikes, it's not only his sport, it's his hobby. I'm yet to observe a kid under 20* who has a genuine passion for the vintage bike he's riding to the point of restoring and owning his own bike. To them, riding dads bike is a fun day out with perhaps a trophy to brag about but there's little or no passion.

Right from the start in 1988 I've had guest riders on board at least  one or two of my bikes at most meetings I've attended. I've had Laurie Alderton, Pelle Granquist, Per Klitland, Kevin Flood, Bob Tindal and many more old stars on board my bikes in attempts to broaden the VMX gene pool and inject some star quality to the program. All of these riders had a passion for the sport and many went on to compete on their own vintage bikes. I wonder however, how many of those young guns love it so much they'd do the same? On the other side of the coin I was genuinely touched to see the pride Ted had in young Liam or that of my old Victorian racing mate Peter Bowen seeing his lads rip on his Maicos. Perhaps there should be some sort of qualifying standard to ride the Nats......say having to have raced at two meetings leading up to the Nats or something similar. I can see some room for discussion regarding somehow restricting young guns to competing only in their age group but I can understand objections to this if only for implementation problems.

Whatever comes of this discussion, I think the young blokes are here to stay. Despite the naysayers of doom's prophecies, the 'Classic' faction of our sport is booming and I think for that to continue we need to attract younger guys to older bikes. My motocross riding days are long over but last weekends Nats inspired me to remain involved by putting others on my bikes. I'd prefer to bring old guns back as I did with Tony Clarke and our jinxed Cheney partnership , but I also got a warm buzz from the commitment and good humour young Sarah and Robert Dillon showed to both Davey's YZ125 and my DT1. If we can nurture a passion for old bikes in the young guns we've got it made but I still think Johnny's unfortunately got it on the button with his " kids are the future of modern mx not vmx, they can ride moderns and be competitive till their 30's THEN go to vmx" statement.   

* with the exception of this forums Michael and his GT80 and TM400 restos

[Nathan S]

The problem with excluding people is that they take other competitors with them ("If I can't take the boys, then I'm not going either" type of thing).

It is also very hard to get them back later.


The "kids" are not the majority (or even a large portion) of the field. But does excluding (say) 10% of the field grow the sport or shrink it? (that's NOT a rhetorical question, BTW).

I can't help but think that the age awards being only for Pre-75 is a big part of the problem.

[jimg1au]

col
what happened this year at the cdt nats was.
 ma as I was told made all classes extra races so 150.00 to start plus classes
ie pre75 then pre 75 age groups so if you entered in the pre75 250 then your age group it was 30.00 and 30.00 for your age group
adding age groups will just cost us more and donate to ma coffers.
that's how it was I just entered my age groups,lucky they had enough to have titles.dont forget what you do to cmx you will do to cdt as well same set of rules
jim

[EML]

Yeah we talked about this on Sunday night and thought it would be a good idea for under 30's to have to ride 4 VMX meetings through the year to qualify for the Nats.
A lot of these young guys never ride or show any interest in vintage mx through the year and have no intention of owning a VMX bike then turn up at the titles on borrowed bikes to take home a trophy.
The presentation on Sunday night certainly looked different to previous vintage titles with many young guys taking home the silverware.
It makes it hard for us 50+ year olds... There are only age groups in pre 75.

My thoughts too.

[Simo63]

For once I'm at a loss for words except I will say this ..... there are some in this sport that will do their best to tune it to a standstill and when it's dead and buried will wonder what happened .. why did the early classes die out??

[jimg1au]

I only did 1 club day this year I would be pissed off if I could not ride at the nats because of some stupid rule because it would be enforced for everyone some time you get too busy to race bikes let alone work on them
jim

[Simo63]

I'm yet to observe a kid under 20* who has a genuine passion for the vintage bike he's riding to the point of restoring and owning his own bike. To them, riding dads bike is a fun day out with perhaps a trophy to brag about but there's little or no passion.

You would have met one at my pit/camp in young Luke Corbett Firko. Not only did he build the YZ400 he was racing (yes it's my bike but it's all his work) but he is now looking for his own VMX bikes.  Maybe if he hears about movements to limit his involvement he won't bother.

[mainline]

For once I'm at a loss for words except I will say this ..... there are some in this sport that will do their best to tune it to a standstill and when it's dead and buried will wonder what happened .. why did the early classes die out??

+1

[Nathan S]

I did say in another post somewhere that we need the young guns to come out and play. Having the younger guys and gals racing is what will keep the sport of VMX ticking along in the future when all of us are super seniors.
I personally love seeing a bike being used to it's full potential by someone with little or no fear.... reminds me of my younger days 
I did also make a suggestion that maybe having to compete in at least 3 VMX club meetings a year could be the way to go. But the rule would have to apply to everybody, not just the younguns. We as a sport cannot be seen to discriminate against anybody.
The forms we sign at the beginning of each race day could be used as proof of attendance. I'm sure most club secretary's would have some type of filing system for the indemnity forms we sign so it would be easy enough to get copies to present at title races. Or.......
Maybe a race log book. Something simple that gets dated and stamped/signed at every event sign in.

Hmm.
Would you be era-specific?
I mean, would racing Pre-90 qualify you for the Classic MX Nats? (And vice-versa)
If so, then will it achieve what we hope?
If not, then I'd be excluded...

I have no real opinion, just thinking out loud.

[gwc162]

do you bring in a owner /rider rule? Are the kids hounding the owners of these bikes for a ride or the other way?

[Ted]

For once I'm at a loss for words except I will say this ..... there are some in this sport that will do their best to tune it to a standstill and when it's dead and buried will wonder what happened .. why did the early classes die out??

+2

[GMC]

For once I'm at a loss for words except I will say this ..... there are some in this sport that will do their best to tune it to a standstill and when it's dead and buried will wonder what happened .. why did the early classes die out??

Plus one more.

Also the paying extra for every class you enter I'm sure is a club / promoter thing, not from MA

[FourstrokeForever]

I only did 1 club day this year I would be pissed off if I could not ride at the nats because of some stupid rule because it would be enforced for everyone some time you get too busy to race bikes let alone work on them
jim

That's a fair point you make Jim.... we all know not everybody can be happy...

I did say in another post somewhere that we need the young guns to come out and play. Having the younger guys and gals racing is what will keep the sport of VMX ticking along in the future when all of us are super seniors.
I personally love seeing a bike being used to it's full potential by someone with little or no fear.... reminds me of my younger days 
I did also make a suggestion that maybe having to compete in at least 3 VMX club meetings a year could be the way to go. But the rule would have to apply to everybody, not just the younguns. We as a sport cannot be seen to discriminate against anybody.
The forms we sign at the beginning of each race day could be used as proof of attendance. I'm sure most club secretary's would have some type of filing system for the indemnity forms we sign so it would be easy enough to get copies to present at title races. Or.......
Maybe a race log book. Something simple that gets dated and stamped/signed at every event sign in.

Hmm.
Would you be era-specific?
I mean, would racing Pre-90 qualify you for the Classic MX Nats? (And vice-versa)
If so, then will it achieve what we hope?
If not, then I'd be excluded...

I have no real opinion, just thinking out loud.

Good point Nathan.
In short, NO, any VMX event attendance will fill the criteria. A lot of classic racers/riders (and vice versa) have bikes covering classic and post classic eras so making the rule era specific would not be fair. As we know, some post and classic meetings are held on the same weekend and the rider makes a choice on which to attend. We can't be in 2 places at once. Usually the race closer to home wins out.
I believe it will achieve in removing the "one title guns" from racing the Nats and perhaps maybe even induce a few more young people to the classic events once they see how much fun our old and simple bikes are.

[firko]

You would have met one at my pit/camp in young Luke Corbett Firko. Not only did he build the YZ400 he was racing (yes it's my bike but it's all his work) but he is now looking for his own VMX bikes.  Maybe if he hears about movements to limit his involvement he won't bother.

OK, I missed Luke but he's an exception, and a great one to have in our sport. Unfortunately Craig he's in a very small minority. You missed the point I was making, I'm not at all calling to limit his and other younger racers involvement, what I'm hoping is that some kind of middle ground can be found where older racers such as Noel Harker who've put into our sport for decades aren't driven away by one meeting wonders. Over the last 25 years I've seen many young racers come along, win a title or two and disappear for ever, and regular vintage racers have been whingeing about it for just as long. Luke is the type of bloke we want to attract, let's hope we get more like him.

* I once played in a Rugby tournament in Nevada against a side that was packed solid with internationals from all over the world, including two All Blacks and a Wallaby. We were the best team in California and had been for two seasons yet this normally mid-pack team stacked with it's 8 or 9 ring ins paid for by a squillionaire property developer fan hammered us and every other team in the tournament. That's how I see some of these young gun Nats wins.

[shortshifter]

I haven't ridden a Nats,but am not against anyone lining up to race on the grid.As previously mentioned by other guys we want to put as few obstacles in the way of people riding as possible.A healthy grid should have lots of bike brands and lots of various aged riders regardles of whether they have done club days or not.I don't see how you could police any other system.At the end of the day don't we want another generation showing some intersest in the sport,even if its a big meeting(could lead to more active involvement).As previously mentioned some hired guns are more mature and its good to see them ride as a participant and spectator.