Where is the next breaking point?

[TM BILL]

Red, I'm in a similar sort of boat to you, had a bad accident 5 months ago and probably have another 6 at least till I'm on the  mended side.....I'm a mechanic by trade and am finding it very hard not being able to do things that came so easily to me before. I don't even know if I will ride/race again but in the meantime I'm trying to finish off a couple of bikes that have dragged on for too long. I also have a very trick bike to restore for a guy that will make me push a bit harder. Here's a curveball....why not get a trials bike and do it up/have a play on.....something different and still to do with bikes....if you go cold turkey you will be kicking yourself down the track. If they give you the shits....just cover them up with a few sheets...cheers.

Joan you will be back faster and stronger than ever mate  its a bastard when you are laid up but you will be back . They say you cant keep a good man down and i think that goes for a rude ole wobbler like you too 

Your passion for what we do is both inspiring and infectious , your on the back side of your recovery now and will be back in the saddle before you know it .

Connondale 2014 expect a proper Kiwi team ( those who drink piss all night and still go out and do it ) were planning now and expect you to be team captain  .

Red as the boys are saying hang in there , if its in the blood its there forever 

[Canam370]

  Golf is boring. My clubs are gathering dust up the back of the garage.
[/quote]

Never could understand a game where you hit a ball as far away from yourself as you can then have to chase it yourself

[Nathan S]

96 Honda was the stand out until the YZF for pre 2000

Better than the 97 YZ250?

I've got six pre-95 bikes in the shed (an another on permenant loan with a mate)... If the class was formed as Pre-96, it wouldn't change what I own.
If it was pre-97, it might.

[Iain Cameron]

 Jay It does pass ,like you Ive done the heart attack bit it took me about 9 months to get back and I'll tell you now your first ride back is daunting but once back on a bike it all seems to come back together . Im not up at the front of the field but then again I never was so much for a port and polish of the heart . As Mark said the MOJO will come back . Iain 

[Nathan S]

If you can agree to the significance of these bikes and this era now, what are your thoughts on them being race classes in the near future???

Pre 85 isn't running anything near half of its potential and as Davey says, punters are just starting to get their heads around pre 90 so it would be a swan dive into disaster to introduce (or even consider ) any newer cutoff areas for at least five years. Every time I argue against these new classes I get attacked by the usual antagonists for being an old dinosaur clinging to the pre 75 dream and afraid of change, but the truth is that I have no problem whatsoever with new classes being introduced, my problem is with those classes being introduced too soon. Until the existing classes are hosting full fields in all capacities we need to concentrate on and perfect the divisions we have already. The cancellation of the Post Classic Nats early this year is evidence enough that there are enough problems within the Post Classic era to deal with without adding new fuel to the fire.

I bit my tongue earlier, but...

Pre-85 will NEVER meet the impossible expectations you set for it, because it was introduced too late. Pre-90, Pre-78 and Pre-70 are all doomed to the same fate, for exactly the same reasons. The two strongest classes in VMX are Pre-75 and Evo because they were introduced early.
Pre-75 was a mere 13 years old when VMX started - the newest Pre-95 bike is 18 years old already, and we're talking about waiting another five years?!...

Most of us live our (first) dirt-biking hey-day in our late teens and early twenties. Then things like family and career and mortgages typically get in the way in our mid twenties, and we drift away to look after those other things.
The majority of people join the VMX movement when they're in their mid-30s to mid-40s - when the Family/career/mortgage is under control and they have the time and money to race dirt bikes again, but are not able/willing to mix it with the youngsters at the typical modern club day.
There are plenty of welcome exceptions to that, but since the start of VMX its undoubtedly been the 35~45 year old blokes who are the vast majority of the new recruits - and the these blokes will most closely identify with bikes that are 15~20 years old: The bikes these blokes rode in their own personal heyday.

The Retro/Norths (pre-90) club in NSW is a clear example of this - the average age is clearly considerably lower than it is at Heaven...

We can talk of Pre-85's "potential" until the cows come home, but we crippled it from the start - the window of opportunity was mostly closed before we finally got around to saying "you know what? A bike made in 1984 is really quite old now - maybe it could even be a VMX class". We did the same for Pre-90 and we are about to do the same for Pre-95.

The VMX movement is doomed while the "not yet" mentality is allowed to prevail. Everyone has their own pet era, and that's a GOOD thing - I don't expect the 50+ yo blokes to share my enthusiasm for Pre-95 - but I get properly cranky when they try to claim that my enthusiasm for Pre-95 is somehow less valid than their own enthusiasm for Pre-75 was in 1989...

[Paul552]

Man that sounds like me

I'm building the bike my oldies would never let me have
 

I think your right Nathan

[Davey Crocket]

You might be right in NSW Nathan but up here in Bananaland you couldn't be further from the truth....You need to sell a couple of your Volvo's and come up to sunny Qld and check out a very healthy VMX scene.....pre75, pre78, EVO, pre85 and pre90 are all healthy and growing.....when you have people like Glen Bell, Dave Armstrong and James Deacon turn up to club days and relive THERE dreams then you know you are doing something right....we have the best tracks in Australia to ride on up here (Conondale, Echo Valley, QMP, Harrisville to name a few) and when you offer the punters great tracks/facilities they will turn up. Sometimes you have to put your hand in your pocket and pay the money for the right tracks/facilities. As we get older we get fussier and I think you will find the reason your numbers are low has a lot to do with the tracks you ride on.....pretty blunt but true!.The thumper Nats grew out of control with rider numbers and ended up bigger than the Australian titles....why.....because you rode on awesome tracks...Conondale, Dargle, Kempsey, Barrabool, Picton etc. The Conondale Classic this year had full grids in EVO up.....when was the last time you saw 40 500cc bikes on the grid?.....make it your big event for next year....it's your shout too by the way.

[Nathan S]

I never said numbers were low, Davey - its about killing off this insane idea that we need Pre-85 (or Pre-90 or Pre-78 or whatever other excuse you want to use) before a newer class can be considered.

The progressive nature of VMX is Qld is a big part of its health. Compared to NSW, you Qwinslanders seemed to spend no time bickering about whether Pre-90 was "ready" or "legitimate" as a VMX class - instead, you go on with it and reaped the rewards.
The same seems to be true of Victoria - they were going gang-busters while they were progressive, but then they succumbed to the "that's not how we do it" mentality, and the handbrake was reefed on...

[Davey Crocket]

I'm sure it will come soon Nathan, but other States are struggling with what they have/don't have but we would struggle up here to fit any more races in during the day. Have they done the pre95 or 2000 overseas yet? One thing that bothers me is the amount of guys sneaking in 90 and 91 model bikes into pre90....should pre90 be opened up to certain carry over models?....maybe it should be changed to pre92 or something?....then straight to pre2000. I don't think the KX5's and CR5's changed much in 90 and 91. I think sticking to 5 year increments doesn't work with the newer stuff......let the shitfight begin....pump those shoulders up Nathan....ther will be gunning for you.

[Rookie#1]

The problem in Victoria is primarily division, too many ( 3 ) clubs catering to a similar demographic, the diminishing amount of people that can afford to maintain and race their bikes mean each club is seeing only small growth in member numbers (steady but small). I keep being told about the "good ol days" of Victorian VMX where there was just 1 series running and all classes/era's were raced on the same weekend, i always wondered how great that would have been.......Well on the weekend just passed i found out!! The Grass track event at Clarkefield was a combined meeting of Victorias 3 VMX clubs and it was AWESOME, pre 90 to pre 75 being run all together and 99% of people were having a ball. Support classes of modern bikes and fast 50's could easily be swapped for a pre 2000 (or pre 96) class and would attract the same amount of support and new interest IMO, so the way forward is quite obviously found in PROGRESSION and UNITY. Anything else will just result in things become STALE and DIVIDED. Just my 2c but I have now seen the proof of this theory and i dont believe it can be argued with any weight behind your rebuttal than "that's just how it is" 

Cheers, Brendan.

PS, big thanks to CSC's Peter Ellard, VCM's Frank DeRose and most of all VIPER'S Peter Gruber for working together and showing people like me just a glimpse how the "good ol days" must have looked! 

[DCPlasticsguy]

Our local vintage series has a pre 2000 class for 1999 and older bikes. It's the most fun I've had in years on my 1999 RM 125. We also have a 1989 and older, 1981 and older, 1974 and older. No age or skill breakups. They usually get 5-15 guys in each class depending on the track.

[Davey Crocket]

That's a main part of the way forward Brendon, the clubs have to work together. These old guys that keep living/referring to the past and don't want to move forward are just kidding themselves and damaging the sport ......the past (when vintage started) was great and the sport exploded but now it's a whole different ball game....ie...riders that are too old, bodies too broken, cant/don't want to ride anymore, just burnt out....bla, bla, bla. I'm with the DC guy, pre 2000....and anyone who hasn't ridden a "modern"125 is missing out on one of the best bikes you could ever ride.

[Tahitian_Red]

Well that's the crux of it isn't it. 

Are the organizations only for the pleasure of the current membership or something that will live on after most of the pioneers who started this great thing we have worldwide hang up their leathers for the last time. 

People racing their old bikes in a safer venue, re-living their youth, sharing history with the younger generation, rekindling old friendships and making new ones for as long as the oil lasts or just a 25+ year flash in the pan?  Only we can decide.

[Ktm181]

Well that's the crux of it isn't it. 
Are the organizations only for the pleasure of the current membership or something that will live on after most of the pioneers who started this great thing we have worldwide hang up their leathers for the last time. 
People racing their old bikes in a safer venue, re-living their youth, sharing history with the younger generation, rekindling old friendships and making new ones for as long as the oil lasts or just a 25+ year flash in the pan?  Only we can decide.

EXACTLY Red, todays 20 year old WILL NOT be passionate about pre 85, pre 75 etc when they are 40, they will be in love with what their favourite was when they were young, just as most of us are.

Evolve or Die.
Kt.

[DCPlasticsguy]

Although I like the 1974 models and loved my 1984 RM 250, there is just something about the bikes that I grew up on. Being 25, the mid to late 90's are my bikes of choice. I always looked forward to reading the bike mags and watching the A riders when I was a kid.