Future VERi bike eligibility?

[IT400C]

It's a question of what the rules are. Tell me where it says Vinduro is pre85 only? ( differentiate between rules and a particular set of club rules)

Should a few people determine what the rules are over say the Victorian govt? Should the rules be based on someone's idea of what 'vintage' means?

Perhaps more people would join VERi if things were different?

This discussion is hurting my brain.

Ne plus ultra

I'm just catching on this discussion after a weekend having fun at the Conondale Classic... 

But the one thing that hits me is that it's all a 'storm in a teacup'...

If you want to organise an event, and you believe it should be Pre 85, great!  Do it!

If you want to organise an event, and you believe it should be Pre 90, great!  Do it!

If you want to organise an event, and you believe it should be competitive, great!  Do it!

If you want to organise an event, and you believe it should be non-competitive, great!  Do it!

If you want to organise an event, and you believe the cut off dates are sacrosanct, great!  Do it!

If you want to organise an event, and you believe the cut off dates are flexible, great!  Do it!

Basically, if you're prepared to get off your bum and do all that work, YOU get to decide what your rules are.  Unless it's a State ot National Title (competitive), you can run whatever rules you want.

You'll soon find out how popular it is - and you get to decide whether it's a success or not..   If you expect 25 entries and get 30, it's a success.  If you expect 200 and get 150, it's not..

[Nathan S]

It's also worth pointing out that there were several moderns ripping around at Harrow. Their riders were wearing fluro vests, of course, but it proves that ineligible bikes don't ruin the event...

These guys are called sweep riders

What!? Really?!
 

The point was that it makes no difference to me what other people ride. The Sweeps' 201x KTMs were just as irrelevant to me and my enjoyment of the event as the 1985 KTMs, the TS250Xes with centre exhaust ports, XRs with 86+ cartridge forks, converted MXers, PEs, KDXes, Hodakas, and Bultacos that were also there.
Actually, that's not true - those extra smiling faces were a big part of why the event is so good.

[Ted]

Guys the one thing that I learnt from the 2013 Post Classic MX Titles this years is that Online Forums are absolutely and positively the worst possible place to get anything like a real representation of what is good, bad, needed or required in a meeting, series, event or club.

I have nothing to do with VERi don't even know who is running it, but they have got off there arses and put their time and effort into organising Vinduros as best they can using I image a vast amount of experience.

Will it be perfect? Probably not

Will it satisfy every single rider with an old bike? Probably not

Will it be successful? I hope so

Will the 'rules' given that it is not a competition evolve and change? almost certainly

Has the Vinduro sport/pass time reached the point where a little firming up of gudelines is required? Certainly has

Can we wait around until every detail is absolutely positively perfect in every way for every rider at every event? Never going to happen

Will there be mistakes made? Absolutely

So get involved in helping to run them instead of throwing darts SHEESH

Now that is a wise Man, I would honor him to be in my club and Team any day.( Please embrace what we have, it will only get better.)

But he rides Montessas

[firko]

I'm just catching on this discussion after a weekend having fun at the Conondale Classic... 

But the one thing that hits me is that it's all a 'storm in a teacup'...

If you want to organise an event, and you believe it should be Pre 85, great!  Do it!

If you want to organise an event, and you believe it should be Pre 90, great!  Do it!

If you want to organise an event, and you believe it should be competitive, great!  Do it!

If you want to organise an event, and you believe it should be non-competitive, great!  Do it!

If you want to organise an event, and you believe the cut off dates are sacrosanct, great!  Do it!

If you want to organise an event, and you believe the cut off dates are flexible, great!  Do it!

Basically, if you're prepared to get off your bum and do all that work, YOU get to decide what your rules are.  Unless it's a State ot National Title (competitive), you can run whatever rules you want.

You'll soon find out how popular it is - and you get to decide whether it's a success or not..   If you expect 25 entries and get 30, it's a success.  If you expect 200 and get 150, it's not..

Hallelujah.......This eligibility stuff is tedious at best. Ever since pre 75 VMX was created in the late 80's there have been those who want to fudge the eligibility parameters. Every time it comes up  on this forum the same old culprits sprout the same worn out old philosophy backing whatever cutoff date they worship. If it was made pre 95, some dickweed would straight away come on here and argue like all fluck for "common sense to prevail" and call for eligibility to change to pre 96...."for the good of the sport". There are some very dedicated people who've actually got off their collective arses to form an organisation to benefit the Vinduro cause. They've deemed the cutoff to be pre 85 after I'm sure a lot of discussion and consultation so if you're so steadfastly against that cutoff, organise your own vinduro with a pre 90 or whatever cutoff. If you do it as well as Shoey, Drakey and all of their dedicated colleagues you'll have done something positive for those with 86- 90 Vinduro bikes who've been disenfranchised by the VERi rules. If that's not in your bucket list, just cop the pre 85 cutoff sweet and enjoy it for what it is.

[Nathan S]

Lots of strawman going on now... The main point is that strict enforcement of era-eligibility will do far more harm than good to a non-competitive, low stress sport.

Am I wrong?

[Mike52]

Must be me.

We are talking Vinduro's  here in this post originated by Nathan aren't we?
Not mx or something else.

You know the NON competitive social trail ride that passes for a proper enduro but is nothing like a real one.
The event that was invented to give old enduro riders something to do to reinforce their memories.
Cheers
Mike

So where do you draw the line then Mike ? im 50 something and have done / do ride enduros and trail rides  ,so does that make me an old enduro rider ? . And can I ride my 2006 YZ250F ( fitted with a headlamp ) at these events as its purely social  My 2006  YZ is water cooled , has disc brakes front and rear, adjustable rear shock and upside down forks , just like most 1989 models so it must be a flow on model 

I am now over 60 and an old enduro rider Bill.
Seriously,  you race and know the difference between race rules and social outing rules.
Vinduro's are not a race but a friendly social outing.
Don't we have enough bloo*y rules in our lives without Fu*king up the one thing that we all enjoy , our bike riding.
At Vinduro's some people ride fast , some slow and some don't even ride at all.
Your 2006 yz won't affect my enjoyment at all but if you want to pay to ride an easy track then I for one welcome you.
At the last vinduro I went to some sweep riders were [ shock/horror] riding 2013 bikes and on the same track too.
One of the old paying enduro [65ish] riders was riding a brand new KTM { very quickly I might add ] as well as his 83 KDX.
Funny thing was that  no paying  riders gave a rats.

[Rookie#1]

Lots of strawman going on now... The main point is that strict enforcement of era-eligibility will do far more harm than good to a non-competitive, low stress sport.

Am I wrong?

As politely as i can put it Nathan, YES!. The vast majority (at the moment) of vinduro riders are aged 35-65, most of these people grew up in a time when black was black, white was white and rules were rules, they seem to have little trouble adhering to whatever format and guidelines are laid down. I don't hear many of the over 35's having much of an issue with the pre 85 format, or if they do they choose to accept it for what it is. Ultimately participants will always vote with their feet, and at the moment we seem to have no trouble at all getting plentiful entries to VERi events. As for what constitutes a "Vinduro", that is up to the organiser of that particular Vinduro to determine, as for what constitutes a "VERi Vinduro" for the foreseeable future, it's an event for pre 85 bikes  .

Cheers, Brendan

[frostype400]

Its not hard to get an eligible bike I thought you could still rec reg and register pre 90 bikes any way so why not ride them in modern events?

If you started pre 90 events you will get blokes wanting to ride say a 92 wr500 you can't win I just hate that I have the bikes that are eligible but I don't have the time to ride them.

[Nathan S]

Lots of strawman going on now... The main point is that strict enforcement of era-eligibility will do far more harm than good to a non-competitive, low stress sport.

Am I wrong?

As politely as i can put it Nathan, YES!. The vast majority (at the moment) of vinduro riders are aged 35-65, most of these people grew up in a time when black was black, white was white and rules were rules, they seem to have little trouble adhering to whatever format and guidelines are laid down. I don't hear many of the over 35's having much of an issue with the pre 85 format, or if they do they choose to accept it for what it is. Ultimately participants will always vote with their feet, and at the moment we seem to have no trouble at all getting plentiful entries to VERi events. As for what constitutes a "Vinduro", that is up to the organiser of that particular Vinduro to determine, as for what constitutes a "VERi Vinduro" for the foreseeable future, it's an event for pre 85 bikes  .

Cheers, Brendan

Sorry, I missed the bit where you explained how it would do more good than harm?


Were there ten (or more) people who stayed away from Harrow because they knew there would be some of those awful 1985 model bikes there?

[brucey]

Here is the point i just do not get

If i swapped my club membership from cimaa to join up Veri legally where do Veri stand ? my 1986/87 model is legally red plated as per the 25 year rule in victoria legally registered to ride on the road yet i could not ride it at a MAV sanctioned and insured event ? what happens next year 87/88 models ?

PS yes i am in Vic

Dont worry im not going to actually to turn up to an event or cause trouble i would just like to know ?

Bruce

[Rookie#1]

Here is the point i just do not get

If i swapped my club membership from cimaa to join up Veri legally where do Veri stand ? my 1986/87 model is legally red plated as per the 25 year rule in victoria legally registered to ride on the road yet i could not ride it at a MAV sanctioned and insured event ? what happens next year 87/88 models ?

PS yes i am in Vic

Dont worry im not going to actually to turn up to an event or cause trouble i would just like to know ?

Bruce

Great question, direct it to [email protected] and it will be answered promptly, politely and concisely.

[NSR]

I have no intention of telling VERi how they should run their events, this is just my opinion.

As someone who has spent a fare bit of time thinking about this and classes to have in a Vinduro competition. 
Pre85 does not work.  There is no relationship with that year and the development of Enduro bikes at the time.  How can it be that you are able to ride a 84 CR250 but not a 86 WR Husky.  The way I looked at it if we went for Pre90 there would not be a need for follow ons.  When I put this on another forum someone had a go at me saying "What next Pre2000" I then noticed the bikes he owned was a 85 IT250 and an 86 IT200.

I also agree with Bill.  If the cut of date is 84 get a Pre85 bike or don't turn up.  I read someone complaining about the Pre 90 bikes at CD and how the organises should stop them.  No, people should not bring them in the first place.
       

[nada]

Guys the one thing that I learnt from the 2013 Post Classic MX Titles this years is that Online Forums are absolutely and positively the worst possible place to get anything like a real representation of what is good, bad, needed or required in a meeting, series, event or club.

I have nothing to do with VERi don't even know who is running it, but they have got off there arses and put their time and effort into organising Vinduros as best they can using I image a vast amount of experience.

Will it be perfect? Probably not

Will it satisfy every single rider with an old bike? Probably not

Will it be successful? I hope so

Will the 'rules' given that it is not a competition evolve and change? almost certainly

Has the Vinduro sport/pass time reached the point where a little firming up of gudelines is required? Certainly has

Can we wait around until every detail is absolutely positively perfect in every way for every rider at every event? Never going to happen

Will there be mistakes made? Absolutely

So get involved in helping to run them instead of throwing darts SHEESH

Brilliant!

[HVA61]

Brilliant i agree.

Wise words from a very good operator

[Davey Crocket]

I've been watching/reading this and what Montynut said above is on the money. Just remember to turn up, help if you can, help promote the events and have fun....because at the end of the day that's what it is all about. Do that and it will work.