2013 Australian Classic MX Titles

[firko]

The layout of Fairbairn Park is great and going by what I can see in the vids, looks to flow really well. While I take Nathans recommendations seriously I must ask why we need as many jumps as are currently on the course?  I'm just wondering out aloud if it might be a better proposition to avoid two or three of the table tops altogether. I'm not being picky or wanting to see a flat as a pancake grass track style track, it just seems to me however that there is a little bit too much airtime for pre 75 style racing if we're using what the tracks were like back in the pre 78/75 era as some sort of criteria. Those gnarly whoops definitely have to go but other than Nathans ideas and perhaps two or three jumps taken out and possibly replaced with a chicane or two, I like the place. Kumagutsa was never going to happen unless Nathans Jesus drops a thousand tons of loam and a ute full of chainsaws on the place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW-JgT6dipI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhFMIluCreE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2gdztjm4Zc

[Montynut]

Very valid points Firko. The only thing with the removing the jumps on the back straight for example is that bike speeds would go through the roof. While that in itself is not bad it does result in big crashes or more correctly injuries when crashes do happen. I have ridden the Pre75 250 around there for probably 100 laps over the last three season and it is challenging but also very satisfying when you get it right even in its present form.

[IT400C]

I have ridden the Pre75 250 around there for probably 100 laps over the last three season and it is challenging but also very satisfying when you get it right even in its present form.

I'll admit up front that I'm not entering this event..  Just commenting as an interested observer..

But surely the best thing is to find a way of getting rid of the whoops and tables etc., while still keeping the speeds down?

The track may be satisfying when you get it right, but the majority of the people thinking of entering will have one or two short practice sessions to learn the 'challenging' track.

Surely the best bet to maximise your entries is to set up a track that will suit the Weekend Warrior, not the top 10% who are gunning for the National Titles? 

Let's face it, you could run the Titles as 10 laps round a tree in a flat paddock and the top 10% would still come - they'd complain the track was too easy, but they'd still come.

But if you present a track that only that top 10% have any chance of mastering, the silent majority will do just that - remain silent and not come...

I understand that it's an Aussie Title event, but it's the punters having fun that will make it a successful Aussie Title event.... 

[Montynut]

I would not consider myself to be top 10% by a long shot

I also agree with your points. I surpose I was trying to put my view that massive changes are possibly not warranted and bypassing parts of the track which results in high speed straights may not be ideal either. I also have no reference points for Pre65 and Pre70 bikes.

[IT400C]

I would not consider myself to be top 10% by a long shot

hahaha - I was perhaps generalising...   

And I will admit that the 10% figure was pulled straight out of my arse...   

[Nathan S]

Montynut's on the money about the track overall, and particularly the three table-tops on the back straight.
The three tabletops on the back straight are basically impossible to bypass - you'd lose half the track to avoid using that bit of it.
Or bulldoze them flat and have a warp-speed straight (can't see the ACTMCC agreeing to that, even if safety isn't an issue!).

I really don't mind the main track on an old bike - the only bit I really dislike is the third tabletop (the top is angled up, and it hurts if you don't clear it), and I'm not such a fan of the old finish-line table top.

Definitely not a top 10% guy here - I'm slower than montynut!

[Tossa]

being in the bottom 10% I only want to come home in one piece, big smile and big hangover, from a great time competing with some great people.  As long as the track is rideable I will be extremely happy.  Think the committee will get it right, they're pride won't let them get it wrong

[Slakewell]

Bejeebus I hope this doesn't turn to shite.

It is hard to get a club that is making good money from modern MX track to do much to accommodate VMX. Badly made table top jumps and just too rough on pre 75 bikes.
And people wonder why I have such distant for MNSW. QLD shame us again with there great felicities.     

[firko]

Once again just thinking out aloud, could one or perhaps two of the back straight tables be taken out and replaced with a chicane to wash off some back straight warp speed? I've never ridden the track and I doubt I ever will but surely there's a way of turning that back section into something that resembles seventies era track design? To my eyes there appears to be way too many table top style jumps, something that didn't exist back then. I also understand that beggars can't be choosers and we have to find a compromise within the given parameters. In theory I don't object to table top jumps, it's just that I don't like the idea of jumping becoming the main focus of the track, that's not how motocross was during the pre 75 era. I'd hate to be racing 300lbs of Metisse for too many laps over those tabletops. I'm going to Canberra next Tuesday for the Brumbies v British Lions rugby game so I might see if we can go down in the morning and go out to the track and have a close look at the layout, and perhaps take some shots.

 After the Post Classic stuff up we can't afford to get this wrong so I'm more than willing to offer any expertise I might (or might not ) have to the organising team. If this goes pear shape for any reason we'll have only ourselves to blame so lets work to make it work. 

[VMX247]

Nationals contact Fred Senger 0418 626 992

[Graeme M]

I've watched this unfold from a distance, and have not offered any comment to date simply because I am not involved but being the OzVMX 'owner' I could be seen to have a part to play. However I am not assisting the club in any way nor am I wanting to be seen to be influencing anyone.

Simply put, although I am in Canberra and run this website, I am not on the club committee nor am I in any way involved in Vintage Motocross in Canberra. I no longer have any active participation in Vintage Motocross and limit my active role in racing to modern dirt track.

With that in mind, anyone with concerns about the Nats for 2013 should contact the club in the first instance. I understand Fred Senger is the main man for the titles and is the driver for the use of the Karmagutza track.

That said, of course people WILL discuss this event on this forum. I hope that early and accurate feedback is offered so that prospective entrants will know exactly what the state of play is, and I hope the club takes whatever steps are necessary to ensure the success of the event.

[gt96]

Once again just thinking out aloud, could one or perhaps two of the back straight tables be taken out and replaced with a chicane to wash off some back straight warp speed? I've never ridden the track and I doubt I ever will but surely there's a way of turning that back section into something that resembles seventies era track design? To my eyes there appears to be way too many table top style jumps, something that didn't exist back then.

So are you thinking something along the lines of this?



Turns 3,4&9 would need to allow more safety run off from the opposing corners, the first of the back straight table tops would be slowed down with a downhill left off the top of it into turn 6, but with run off in case the take off was over cooked. Remaining tabletops could have the sharp face rounded off, current whoops bypassed as well as finishing tabletop. Turn 16 could be a little too close to 14, but is probably within the same parameters as the current 12 to 15.
Bit along the dam adjacent the triple TT may be a little narrow.......
Anyway, food for thought.

[firko]

Thanks GT, that's a good start to some tweaking and it doesn't look as if it'd be all that invasive on the original track design. I can clearly see that my idea of a chicane of sorts on the back straight wouldn't have enough room.  Good stuff.

[Nathan S]

I've never looked carefully, but I think the land to the left of the back straight is full of drainage ditches, water pipes and the like.
On the right, the trees and fence are definitely too close.

The change to 'turn 4' is not realistic - there's a fairly deep gully/cut out between the small table top and turn 4. There would be a 2~3' tall vertical wall midway through turn 4, as proposed.
Turn 4 is a low speed corner, with a noticeable vertical drop on the outside - not a place that is prone to people running wide. The good line is usually on the inside of the track too.
Perhaps some bay bales would suffice? (Is this acceptable from MA's point of view?).


The existing Turn 3 is a highlight, particularly when prepared properly - always has two good lines (often three) and allows a lot of passing opportunities. Beginning the diversion around the whoops later would probably avoid the drama of changing turn 3.

The proposed change to turn 9 would minimise the issues with the large tabletop after it (#9 in my list last night). It may make the preceding step-down table top a larger issue - it's got a fairly steep down hill there, and slowing to get around the revised Turn 9 could be a problem.

Who knows if the club will want to mess with its track to this extent, particularly when we're supposed to be racing on Kumagutsa...

[Shaun G]

I think that to make these sort of changes and to get the track re-licenced would be asking a bit too much for the club to do for a one-off event.

All this talk is doing is planting further doubt in the minds of would be competitors.

So let's point out that HEAVEN has been running successful meetings at this venue for as long as I can remember. The track has mostly been presented in a relatively vintage friendly state (especially when 555 was prepping it)  and I can't see any reason why it would be different for the titles.

Yes tabletops are challenging for older bikes and depending on the rider newer eras too. But we RIDE TO THE CONDITIONS. There is no law that says you have to clear every obstacle on the track!

Instead of pointing out the downside of this track I think we owe the promoters the courtesy of trying to rev up interest in the titles as much as possible.

Cheers
Shaun