Author Topic: '74 Suzuki TM250 L  (Read 18498 times)

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TM BILL

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Re: '74 Suzuki TM250 L
« Reply #60 on: June 13, 2012, 11:47:52 am »
Doc thats great and to you and I and most of the known universe its proof a plenty  :D

But would it stand up as evidence with event officials  ??? You know yourself with the Satanist Optional RM B arm  ::) undeniable evidence of their existance in 1977 has been produced by yourself and others  :) BUT as far as im aware those who hold the big stick are still in denial  ;)

I just wouldn't want anyone to feel that whats presented on this or any other forum will automaticly stand up to officials .

Its all very well having a Moms ( and an ambiguous one at that ) but on the day you have to convince  officialls (who generally remain silent between events ) that your interpretation of the rule is correct  ;)

Offline Freakshow

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Re: '74 Suzuki TM250 L
« Reply #61 on: June 13, 2012, 12:43:08 pm »
Craig, the TM frame (TM250-45018) with the straight rear loop is stock. The frame number ID's it as a 1973 TM250K.

How does that work Doc?  I was told by the experts on the weekend that the first number is the year of manufacture.  Sure that designates that frame as a 1974 model?

Not wanting to argue, just learn and understand  ;D

Nope they never said that.  What They said was having a 5 in your frame makes it the 75 model frame.   Dont read into it.   
What the stament meant was a 5 means 75 frame, its not a year stamping its a serial number that denotes the frame was model released out of the period.   IF it had a 4 and any combinations of serial numbers before 9510 with it it would be a pre 75 model.  iTs just a simple cut off alarm number to say 75. ( if you see that dreaded 5 prefix you ask questions) 

its also my impression that a 75 swing arm wont fit in a 74 model frame and vice versa ( hence why the 75 swing arm was made to look 74 by way of moving the mount to the rear plate.) 

Simo i dont think you will be able to fit the arm you currently have anyway to a 74 complient frame, so you wont have to worry about it.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 01:07:00 pm by Freakshow »
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Simo63

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Re: '74 Suzuki TM250 L
« Reply #62 on: June 13, 2012, 01:34:09 pm »
Craig, the TM frame (TM250-45018) with the straight rear loop is stock. The frame number ID's it as a 1973 TM250K.

How does that work Doc?  I was told by the experts on the weekend that the first number is the year of manufacture.  Sure that designates that frame as a 1974 model?

Not wanting to argue, just learn and understand  ;D

Nope they never said that.  What They said was having a 5 in your frame makes it the 75 model frame.   Dont read into it.   
What the stament meant was a 5 means 75 frame, its not a year stamping its a serial number that denotes the frame was model released out of the period.   IF it had a 4 and any combinations of serial numbers before 9510 with it it would be a pre 75 model.  iTs just a simple cut off alarm number to say 75. ( if you see that dreaded 5 prefix you ask questions) 

its also my impression that a 75 swing arm wont fit in a 74 model frame and vice versa ( hence why the 75 swing arm was made to look 74 by way of moving the mount to the rear plate.) 

Simo i dont think you will be able to fit the arm you currently have anyway to a 74 complient frame, so you wont have to worry about it.

The reason I said that above is that when the frame was identified as being 1975 (by virtue of the first digit being a 5) the scrutineer stated the bike was a 1975 model made to look like a 1974.  The expert (and I wish I knew who he was) then checked the engine number and stated it was a 1974 model engine because it had a 4 as the first engine number.  The next few minutes are a blurr to be honest as people were saying things all over the place and I was too shocked and embarrassed to focus clearly but I definitely remember that declaration.

Based on the numbers that Doc posted (thanks again for that) it is obvious to me now that even having 4 in my engine number doesn’t exclude the engine being 1975 vintage and if that is the case then the whole lot is going in the corner of the shed and won’t be looked at for a long time.  Either that or the scrap bin.

And the previous owner has assured me that the swingarm is a 1974 one that came from the spare frame I got with the bike and that is definitely a 1974 model based on the number.  In fact it’s the best frame I have at the moment and would be the best reconstruction option.  If there is any doubt on the swingarm then I won’t use it.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 01:36:56 pm by Simo63 »

Offline Freakshow

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Re: '74 Suzuki TM250 L
« Reply #63 on: June 13, 2012, 01:47:17 pm »
75 model TM motors are OK., just swap it all over to the 74 frame and ride it....  if in doubt take fotos and send it to the eligibility scruitineer prior to the nations for comment.  he may advise you if anything obvious

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Offline GMC

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Re: '74 Suzuki TM250 L
« Reply #64 on: June 13, 2012, 02:01:46 pm »
You know yourself with the Satanist Optional RM B arm  ::) undeniable evidence of their existance in 1977 has been produced by yourself and others  :) BUT as far as im aware those who hold the big stick are still in denial  ;)

You seem to be a ’glass ¾ empty’ sort of guy when it comes to officialdom Bill. ;D
The fact that the bike has been passed through previously isn’t a slight on the rule book, it just mean the scrutineer either didn’t pick it up or decided to turn a blind eye.

I is rumoured that the optional B swingarm is kept out of the rule book not because the rule book doesn’t refer to any specific part but purely to give Suzuki owners the shits. :D

I think someone said something once about not pleasing all the people all the time…


But enough of that shit, Simo is trying to move forward.

The Bastardised frame…
Like many other frames I think it looks worse that what it really is.
There are bloody horrible bits of shit welded to the tubes from the swingarm pivot to the shock mounts but these tubes are in the wrong place anyway so you would simply cut them out and replace the whole lot.
The shock mounts being pressed out would be the hardest part to reproduce.
As with any frame the deciding factor on repairing such a frame depends wholly on the availability of replacements. A rare frame you would get fixed, a common frame you would replace.
Seeing as you have better frames there is no point doing anything with it now but don’t pitch it. Old frames can come in handy to steal brackets from in order to repair other frames. You may even come across a good frame with bastardized engine mounts that someone may be able to make a good frame from the two.

The better frame…
That small part I saw near the right side swingarm pivot is nothing.
An unmolested frame would be rare for any brand and from what I saw from your photo this frame looks okay.
Not sure what the brake pedal parts are supposed to look like but you could maybe steal some good bits from the other frames?
If you grind those welds off don’t go all the way with a grinding wheel, just use a grinding wheel to take it down as close as possible to the frame tube without touching the frame tubes.
A common mistake is to grind the lot down leaving deep grinding marks all over the frame tube that either look horrible through the paint or you have to sand down the tubes thickness to get rid of them.
Aim for getting down to 0.5 – 1.0mm from the tube and then finish with a sanding disc. Sanding discs require a rubber backing plate on your angle grinder.
Forget those stupid flap discs, there only any good for taking off rust or paint. If you try to take a weld down with a flap disc you will find yourself taking material away from either side of the weld as well

Try an #80 grit sanding disc and don’t be tight with them and let them get too used. A overly used disc will also take material away from either side of the weld while you’re getting rid of the welds.
Carefully rotate the sanding disc around the tube while holding it flat as possible over the tube. Using the edge of the disc will leave flat spots.
Anyone not familiar with these sanding discs I recommend getting a scrap piece of tube, putting some welds on & then sanding them down.
There is no substitute for experience

As for powder coat lifting, that can be many things.
# Not put on properly in the same way some painters don’t apply paint properly.
# It may not have been blasted or cleaned properly first.
# the area may have been subject to a repair and painted over.

Whatever, just don’t be in a hurry to get some new colour on it.
Make sure all fittings are right, no stripped threads etc.
Even if you have to do a dry run assembly first to check everything.
I have come across a few nicely painted frames over the years that have had imperfections that weren’t noticed and couldn’t be rectified without damaging the paint
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Offline GMC

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Re: '74 Suzuki TM250 L
« Reply #65 on: June 13, 2012, 02:04:53 pm »
Based on the numbers that Doc posted (thanks again for that) it is obvious to me now that even having 4 in my engine number doesn’t exclude the engine being 1975 vintage and if that is the case then the whole lot is going in the corner of the shed and won’t be looked at for a long time.  Either that or the scrap bin.

The numbers themselves don't rule out parts, the numbers are only used to confirm parts.
If the parts are the same then the numbers mean nothing and from what I understand all the TM engines were identical, only the frames and swingarms were different.
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TM BILL

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Re: '74 Suzuki TM250 L
« Reply #66 on: June 13, 2012, 02:54:34 pm »
You know yourself with the Satanist Optional RM B arm  ::) undeniable evidence of their existance in 1977 has been produced by yourself and others  :) BUT as far as im aware those who hold the big stick are still in denial  ;)

You seem to be a ’glass ¾ empty’ sort of guy when it comes to officialdom Bill. ;D
The fact that the bike has been passed through previously isn’t a slight on the rule book, it just mean the scrutineer either didn’t pick it up or decided to turn a blind eye.

Just to Clarify  ::) I have no problem with officialdom , i have been an official in many roles  at motorcycle events for many years inc being a scrutineer ( although never an eligibilty scrutineer).

I just believe that if you are going to be in a role then take the role seriously . Your comment "it just mean the scrutineer either didn’t pick it up or decided to turn a blind eye." just shows what a flawed and usless system it is when humans are used to run it  ;)

« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 02:57:19 pm by TM bill »

Offline bazza

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Re: '74 Suzuki TM250 L
« Reply #67 on: June 13, 2012, 03:26:43 pm »
Just race it in UN zud- 6 basic rules and go racing
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oldfart

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Re: '74 Suzuki TM250 L
« Reply #68 on: June 13, 2012, 04:17:04 pm »
Craig, I have overlayed the 2 arms to show what the main difference is in an unaltered arm  between years


 

Offline Doc

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Re: '74 Suzuki TM250 L
« Reply #69 on: June 13, 2012, 05:27:48 pm »
and Freaky is right, the '74 arm won't bolt straight onto the '75 without mods, 74's have a 12mm pivot and '75 are 14mm ;)

Offline GMC

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Re: '74 Suzuki TM250 L
« Reply #70 on: June 13, 2012, 08:01:40 pm »
But has issues in this area including a hole in the frame (easy fix I know) but has had other crap welded on and one of those welded on bits has completely ruined the brake pedal stop.  Also has a few other issues but is the best candidate I have at the moment:


So what is the brake pedal stop supposed to look like?
What are the other issues?
That hole and bits welded on I would call very minor.
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Offline Tex

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Re: '74 Suzuki TM250 L
« Reply #71 on: June 13, 2012, 08:53:11 pm »
Quote
Firstly Simo / Craig has handled this whole incident with dignity and integrity and huge respect to him for that . Mate your new to the sport but with your attitude you will bring a hell of a lot to the sport and all power to you

Amen to that. That is the thing that has struck me most about this whole saga. Good luck with it all Simo63.

Tex

Offline Davey Crocket

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Re: '74 Suzuki TM250 L
« Reply #72 on: June 13, 2012, 09:06:25 pm »
Simo, good on you for going about this in a grown up manner, what GMC says is true, they are only minor problems to fix and if you cant or dont know how to fix them then bring them down for the Biddadaba meet in a couple of weeks and i'll look at it for you. It's pretty easy to swap bits and peices on frames. Now, I dont know if you have thought about this but old mate sold you a 74 TM250...a bike that fits in the pre 75 class, what you got was a 75 TM250....a pre 78 class bike and worth way less than a 74 (youd be lucky to get a grand for a 75 in any condition). I dont beleive that the owner didnt know this having owned the bike for so long and racing it, somebody would have spotted it, if it was me I'd be ringing him up , explaining the situation and asking for some money back. At the end of the day it cost you near on $200 to enter the Nats plus the other costs, the embarrasment of the srutineers knocking your bike and the cost to make it a geniune pre 75 race bike. I think it's definately worth a call.
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Offline Freakshow

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Re: '74 Suzuki TM250 L
« Reply #73 on: June 13, 2012, 11:56:50 pm »
Go for the full refund and start a new project, lotsa genuine 74 TM250 out there for less than $3000K.

I also dont think you have a "RH" gearbox in there either as you eluded to earlier was sold as having.  MY understanding is you cant make a RH anything fit inside a TM case, there a completely differant fish.
74 Yamaha YZ's - 75 Yamaha YZ's
74 Yamaha  flattracker's
70  Jawa 2 valve speedway's

For sale -  PRE 75 Yamaha MX stuff, frame, motors and parts also some YAM DT1,2,A and Suzi TS bikes and stuff

Offline Davey Crocket

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Re: '74 Suzuki TM250 L
« Reply #74 on: June 14, 2012, 08:18:18 am »
Yea, I didnt think of that aspect Freaky, who knows what gearbox is actually in it, I've seen the RH motors and there way diferent to a TM. a full refund would probably be the go.
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