'74 Suzuki TM250 L

[GMC]

Simo, post up some photo's of your 74 frames and lets see what your up against.

[09.0]

Wow!  If that TM was still within its travel limits, one would surely consider a '75 model as a roll-on from the '74 model !!!!!!!!

In these times of depleting fields and the family environment of classic mx, one would expect everyone to be included in the day and leave it open to rider protests; should any other racer feel the need!

Officials these days need to take care, I am seeing similar crap in modern mx and roadracing.

I forsee the same crap happening over the alloy swingarm on my RM125, it just stops me wanting to spend all the money to come along and race if attitudes are this way!

I just can't believe it!  We are all a big family in this sport, the majority need to make a stand to stop it all going downhill.  If the rules need to be changed then everyone should speak up!

for one you need to distinguish the difference between a club day and the highest level of our sport being a national event with championships on the line.
Secondly Simo was further stuffed up because he was told he could 'ride up' a class in pre 78 250 instead which would have allowed him a ride but unlucky for Simo he had a bike for that class already. Double whammy! This year things really got stepped up in the eligibility stakes. Pretty much all pre78 bikes were measured up.

[JohnnyO]

Wow!  If that TM was still within its travel limits, one would surely consider a '75 model as a roll-on from the '74 model !!!!!!!!

In these times of depleting fields and the family environment of classic mx, one would expect everyone to be included in the day and leave it open to rider protests; should any other racer feel the need!

Officials these days need to take care, I am seeing similar crap in modern mx and roadracing.

I forsee the same crap happening over the alloy swingarm on my RM125, it just stops me wanting to spend all the money to come along and race if attitudes are this way!

I just can't believe it!  We are all a big family in this sport, the majority need to make a stand to stop it all going downhill.  If the rules need to be changed then everyone should speak up!

John a '75 TM250 frame has the shocks moved forward and they have a claimed 5.8" rear wheel travel, Simo's bike looks to have a '75 frame with a '74 swingarm.
Myself and plenty of others had alloy swingarms on '77 RM's without a problem.. why people think you can't use them has got me forked.

[Simo63]

Simo, post up some photo's of your 74 frames and lets see what your up against.

Okay Geoff here goes.  First the current bike with 75 model frame:

Gratuitous shot of bike because I think she look stunning wearing her new MX treads


Top Shock Mount (note the corrosion under the powder coating.  This is why I hate powder coating as I mentioned somewhere else when someone was asking whether to paint or powdercoat).  Note the frame curves around 2 inches below where it meets the frame rail under the seat.  This is the only difference between 74 and 75 model TM frames I believe and results in the shocks being moved around 1/2 inch forward :


Lower Shock Mount:


Best Frame I have:


But has issues in this area including a hole in the frame (easy fix I know) but has had other crap welded on and one of those welded on bits has completely ruined the brake pedal stop.  Also has a few other issues but is the best candidate I have at the moment:


It’s frame number:


The frame I was actually building before realising I was running out of time and buying the ex Vergotis TM.  But note that the rear sub frame, whilst looking factory stock to me, is completely different to all the other TM frames I have.  Instead of running reasonably parallel and then turning 90 degrees behind the seat and over the rear mudguard, it seems to rise to that same point but in a straight line  ... looks factory welds to me but definitely not consistent with the other bikes.  Likely that if I had of finished this one not knowing it was different the result would have been the same.  So I assume it’s no good for my purposes:


It’s frame number:


And finally, the one I mentioned that had been badly butchered.  Worthy of a picture if only to see how badly it’s been turdinated:


Now, an  interesting thing on the swingarm.  I have confirmed the swingarm fitted to the ex JV bike is the same length as any of the other ones (just over 500mm from pivot centre to the end) but it looks like the mount is in a different spot as shown in the pictures:

Ex JV Bike:


And another one that looks completely unmolested in any way (ie not strengthened or anything):


Notice how the ex JV one has the mount in front of the end of the swingarm tube whereas the other one it seems to be behind it?  I guess if the 75 frame leant the shock a ½ inch or so forward then moving the lower mount on the swingarm forward would straighten the shock up again (ie reduce the “lay-down effect”?  So probably it’s in the same position as it would be on a standard 74 frame after all this.

Anyway that’s what I have to work with at the moment.  I would like to get the bike going so I can enter the next race QVMX meeting at Biddadaba in a couple of weeks but I really want to hold out and get the best frame that I can that cannot be questioned in any way.

[JohnnyO]

Simo that's a '74 swingarm, the '75 is moved up a couple of inches.. See below

[firko]

Now I look hard at the bike I'm with Johnny O...it looks to be a '75 frame with a '74 swingarm. I know rules are rules but I'd have let the poor bugger ride.

[Simo63]

Simo that's a '74 swingarm, the '75 is moved up a couple of inches.. See below

Thanks for the picture JohnnyO, definately a 74 swingarm but has it been illegally modifed though?  Or is the other swing arm (the one that looks unmodified) froma 73 or earlier?

[Simo63]

Now I look hard at the bike I'm with Johnny O...it looks to be a '75 frame with a '74 swingarm. I know rules are rules but I'd have let the poor bugger ride.

Thanks Firko.  I have no doubt the scrutineers were right in claiming to be a 75 frame particularly after one of them pointed out that the frame number (or engine number for that matter) started with the year of production and since the frame number is 50073 I couldn't argue with them on that point and I didn't.  A low number, does that make it the 73rd frame made in 1975?

Anyway it's no good to me so if anyone wants to buy a nice 1975 TM250 frame, send me a PM.

[firko]

Simo, I've been on the receiving end of the old ineligibility stick myself so I know a bit about how you feel. I also know that once you've fixed and start racing the old thing, this dark moment will pass from your memory, replaced by the good fun and cameraderie of being involved in the sport.

[JohnnyO]

Here is the '74..not the best pic but may help.

[Doc]

Craig, the TM frame (TM250-45018) with the straight rear loop is stock. The frame number ID's it as a 1973 TM250K.

[Simo63]

replaced by the good fun and cameraderie of being involved in the sport.

I hope so Firko because that's one of the things I love most about our sport and why I had my 10 year old son with me last weekend to introduce him to the wonderful world of VMX.  And also why I'm keen to not get personal in any way with this so that relationships aren't permanently damaged.  As disappointing as the whole episode is, I've learnt a bit and I do look forward to happier times.

[John Orchard]

I agree that there has to be some rules but 'if' the bike in question did have 4" travel, then I think it should have been left up to the fellow competitors to put in a protest; which they wouldn't if the gent was going to run mid field or worse!  That way everyone is happy.

Judging from the above pics, with the top mount moved forward, and the much further forward swingarm mount, I'd expect there to be more than 4" travel.

Sure if I finished second to a '75 TM250 with 4 1/4" travel on the rear end, in a National race, I would protest, and the officials should uphold it.  But if I finish 15th and he was ahead of me .... stiff shit.

At least the guy gets a ride, hasn't wasted a ton of money entering and driving there and the winner of the race then beat a larger field.

Then if the guy wants to start winning ....... re-stamp that frame number LOL  ;-)

[Curly3]

It was a National Title event, if we don't have a set of rules and people to police them then it'll be anarchy.
Flexibility is fine at a club event, I think Simo has handled it sensibly, as dissapointing and confusing as it was.

[Simo63]

Craig, the TM frame (TM250-45018) with the straight rear loop is stock. The frame number ID's it as a 1973 TM250K.

How does that work Doc?  I was told by the experts on the weekend that the first number is the year of manufacture.  Sure that designates that frame as a 1974 model?

Not wanting to argue, just learn and understand