Decibels

[firko]

I agree with Doc and others that now Australia has signed the Kyoto agreement Rudd and other leaders have to be seen to be doing something to lower carbon emissions and to reduce other polutants including noise. Forgetting motorcycles for a moment and thinking as Joe Citizen, this can only be a good thing for Mother Earth.

My complaint isn't so much about the severe 96db limits imposed on the VMX community but about the inequality of the decision. If the 96db limit had been a blanket coverage over all of the racing diciplines I would have accepted it and got on with the job of getting my bikes to comply. But when the classic road racing fraternity get to keep their 102db limit while we are forced to comply with a 96db it reeks of inequality to the point that one would have to question how the committees are comprised and if they are stacked in favour of classic road racing representatives.
It should be either 96db or 102db for all, not one level for one group and another for level for their 'favourites'.

[VMX247]

Maybe they took into consideration the proximity to the spectator
and the amount of spectators to riders at  these different disiplined events.
and yes it has to be fair, if not lobby/talk to your State MA rep.
What are the other reasons behind it all..

[GMC]

I don't think spectators would be considered in the decision. Spectators rarely complain about the noise, it's usually local residents.

Noise restrictions aren't new either, they have been around ever since I can remember, and it’s only the decibel level that is changing. I doubt that MA will be doing a witch-hunt at every local club race, it will be complaints from residents/councils that will bring them there.
But if races dropped off because of the new levels I doubt they would care either.

Noise levels are a serious issue. It should not be taken lightly, Loud bikes at tracks have been responsible for track closures & loud bikes in the bush gets noses turned up at us all.
And no I don't make my living from selling mufflers that comply with new restrictions.

But I do sympathise with the fact that it will be hard to quieten down a lot of the older bikes especially Pre 70 type bikes.
CZ twin pipes never had mufflers but I have been making chambers with mufflers for them for about 7 years or so. Feed back suggests that they run better with a short muffler instead of the flat washer welded inside a larger stinger tube. A lot of guys ordered these as they wanted to fly under the radar but I don't know at what level they come in at.
But for a lot of other models, BSA's, Metisses etc. it will be hard to put anything on them that will keep them looking period as most won't have mounting points to hang them from.

I have seen all sorts of arguments put forward about the noise levels.
Bagging the testing procedure doesn't cut it, nor does not repacking your muffler because you can't be bothered. But like many others I too would like to know why it's different for classic road bikes. But then this situation isn't all that new as Off Road events have always been 2nd class as far as MA / ACU have been concerned.

As for submissions, if it weren’t for this forum they probably wouldn't have received any. I too thought about it but never got around to it, one nagging point for me is not knowing exactly what 96 db's is. Yes it's quieter than 102 but its all just numbers that is hard to equate with how most bikes are set up now. I don't get the opportunity to do any testing for noise so I am looking forward to hearing from anyone at CD5 that gets any of my pipes/ mufflers tested. Good, bad or indifferent I would like to know please if any one gets them tested.

Dirt mounds around tracks have been suggested too. They may make a difference at the track but their are at least 2 large dirt mounds known as hills between me & Reg Hunt Park & the sound comes through clearly. I can tell the difference from the road bike howls, which are a further hill away to the modern MXers & the speedway bikes taking off. Although the noise doesn't bother me there are plenty that live closer to the track, including the township itself, although it often depends on the weather.

[Gerard De Ruyter (Twistandshout)]

At Fairbairn Park, we suffered for years from a retired guy in a nearby estate who used to complain to the EPA after every raceday about the noise .  The EPA were getting heavier and heavier.  Till we bit the bullet and reconfigured the track layout.  The problem was the startline - exhausts pointed straight toward that estate and you could well hear it for the four seconds when everyone was full noise down the start straight (for like thirty races over the day).  We spent a fortune on earthworks and made a new start area which pointed into the forest instead - voila - no more noise complaints - fan bloody tastic.

[Freakshow]

Most ma reps or members at that level firko are old timers, paid workers, these retired riders mostly come from the good ol days of road racing, so thats where the slant will come form without doubt. 

Most other folk equate mx to modern bikes, and would have picked up that to ride a MX on the road the complience plate sits the level at 96DB, they didnt have to think about that one to much, many wouldnt think old mX still exsist thus road racers are the most common denominator there. 

They are just voting for themselves, and thats what they did.  I noticed AMA have pushed DB back out to 98/100 with a penalty system, not a no run policy, so it will be interesting to see if we stay or drift back out as they have.

[Freakshow]

hey now there is a thought, can i produce a carbon credit by planting some trees that offset my noise pollution ? 

as in i plant 10 trees and i get one free round at 102db ?  now there is a MA initiative ! :

[Board]

Most ma reps or members at that level firko are old timers paid workers, these retired riders mostly come from the good ol days of road racing, so thats where the slant will come form without doubt. 

Most other folk equate mx to modern bikes, and would have picked up that to ride a MX on the road the complience plate sits the level at 96DB, they didnt have to think about that one to much, many wouldnt think old mX still exsist thus road racers are the most common denominator there. 

They are just voting for themselves, and thats what they did.  I noticed AMA have pushed DB back out to 98/100 with a penalty system, not a no run policy, so it will be interesting to see if we stay or drift back out as they have.

Freaky,
I do often wonder about your posts but this one is ridiculous and totally wrong.

1. What "old time" MA people are you talking about that get paid? The only people paid by MA are their office staff. All others are volunteers.
2. What retired road race riders are you talking about? Again there are very few on MA Commissions, committees and the MA Board.
3. MA is certainly aware of Classic MX which is why they will have representation at CD5.
4. I am sure that any "voting" is done even handedly and taking all aspects into account. The facts are that Motorcycle Sport generally is under threat and the biggest complaint is about noise. If the sport does not do something about it we will find that we either have nowhere to race, or are racing under extreme government restrictions.
5. Road Racing generally, including Historic Road Racing has received a higher decibel reading because they race on established tracks that constantly monitor the noise of all competitors. Go to Eastern Creek and look at the Noise Meter that runs, and is monitored all the time vehicles are on the track.
6. 96dbA is here to stay and it is here to stay for the good of our sport generally, not to annoy a minority of CMX whingers who do not want to make changes or move into the 21st century.
Let's all move forward for the good of Motorcycling.

[cyclegod]

6. 96dbA is here to stay and it is here to stay for the good of our sport generally, not to annoy a minority of CMX whingers who do not want to make changes or move into the 21st century.
Let's all move forward for the good of Motorcycling.

The whole point of Classic MX IS that it is the sights and sounds of the sixties and seventies, the 96dB rule should go the same way as motorcycle seat belts and airbags as a dumb idea not in keeping with the nature and spirit of the sport and ultimately impracticle

[pokey]

5. Road Racing generally, including Historic Road Racing has received a higher decibel reading because they race on established tracks that constantly monitor the noise of all competitors. Go to Eastern Creek and look at the Noise Meter that runs, and is monitored all the time vehicles are on the track.

Hmmmm.

First up overly noisy bikes do annoy me , anything overly noisy does(specially women ). Now that said if a VMX track constantly monitors every competitor they too can have a higher db rating? Dont make sense to my eyes or ears. Seems that is saying if you have money you can be noisier.

I wonder how the drag racers will get on when someone points a microphone thier way.

ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL
BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS.
George Orwell

[Nathan S]

3:So, if I read it right, because road racers ride on a pre determined track they are allowed an extra 6db to play with. What is Barrabool, Broadford, Ravenswood etc, cow paddocks? I would have assumed that because of the comparitive isolation of two of those tracks and the close proximity to the ajacent road course for Broadford that a 102db would be acceptible. Your, or MAs reasoning, makes no sense.

How about looking at things in more general terms: More MX tracks are near houses than road race circuits. The road race circuits usually have far more significant/effective noise-abatement measures.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I saw of Broadford, the road race circuit is tucked behind a big hill, whereas the MX track is basically facing the main access road...

To put it all simply, road race circuits seem to be designed around the understanding that noise is/could be a problem, whereas MX tracks typically are still just cow paddocks when it comes to dealing with noise.

[Freakshow]

BORED let me clarify this when i say MA in my case i mean MAsa

My opinion is based solely on my observations on the MASA office here where it has at least 3 PAID office workers ( i know one gets over $50K), plus i know the president is paid and im assuming the other 5 board members get allowances for sure, its all  run as is the board, by one lady who controls everything even the president wont shit without asking her.  The National Office in Melbourne has paid full-time staff as do the SCBs around Australia.

So i beg to differ that my information based on my local knowlegde is infact correct in this instance, regardless of what is published, based on past employees and support staff telling me this, and my contact previously with folks on the panels before they retired or left because of the politix

even after the accident my brain wasnt completely disfuntional and my recollection was the old board previoulsy had older era enthousiasts, who have slowly been replaced by others but most are still either road or old era speedway, or parents/family support staff

this in no way belittles there abilities, but in no way supports the fact they have our best interests at heart.  I have no idea what the rest of MA is doing but i cant be that far off can it ?

Our 5 current board note the following ;
- Riding Observed Trials in 1958 then moved to Speedway (old timer)
- motorcycling since 1949 including Speedway rider and Historic Road Race (old timer and HRR)
-competed in road racing between 1979 and 1990 and HRR since 05  ( HRR)
- mechanic and side car mx ?
- various commitee member and family race support person ?


so i got 3 out of 5 right in either the old timers or HRR catagory, and just guessing the other 2 would have just followed the 96db complience plate theory.

MA is a Federation with seven voting members, comprising State Controlling Bodies (SCB) from all states and territories except the ACT. There is a National Council made up of one delegate from each SCB, and the President. The Council elects four Directors for the Board, which in turn appoints two independent Directors.  THAts not a lot of folks making a decision if the information isnt coming up from the bottom levels as a hard push.  there would be bigger things on the agenda like the FIM complieances and other cash cows and warm fuzzies like women in sport and junior developement at that level

Anyway thats neither here nor there, these rules can still be ammended so the pressure to level the playground can still happen, we still have momentum so i for one will be hammering my local Dirt track MA rep to get this back on the local agenda, cause last time i spoke to my clubs president we would be going NZ style if we have to enforce this rule and results in loosing riders, even the modern 4's in our club wont beable to meet it.  Our new 20 page per minute photcopier in the office is rated at 71db operating noise.

FWIW - I had a test on a pissy little 125cc superlight in 1998 and it failed and it only hummed like a bee, unless the operator was using it wrong, so i do have a clue what 96 sounds like and i would be suprised if a true era racing bike could make it, maybe at idle on a warm motor and a big Can and a flat resonation rev, you might get close but thats a lot of very variation factors, but its not a realitic target for across the board. HEy you can have you 96Db but it should not be so ridgid and be setup on a sliding scale from 102DB, heck id also go on a handicap at 102 to stay in a meeting like back of grid or a delay time start to keep my bike original.

MY overall point has always been keep it realistic and most folks will do there utmost to comply being draconian in enforcing it will be its undoing.    IT needs perspective and i await to see how it is enforced in field before i make a firm judgemnt, but usually rules once they are scribed get locked in and are hard to wind back, but diluted they can be.    

 BEfore you all go off again about 96db is our responsibility... wa wa.. like i keep saying simply make it a target, not an exclusion point. most folk will do what they can where they can, but enforcement has its levels and acceptance.  we are adults how come every other Govt initiative has self regulation ?

[Tony T]

a minority of CMX whingers who do not want to make changes or move into the 21st century.

As a motorcycle enthusiast, the whole point of any classic or vintage motorcycle racing is NOT to move into the 21st century.  So, for me, I want the sport to remain as close as possible to how it was 'in the day' not turn it into a modern meeting with short travel bikes.
Take Goodwood for example, you're not even allowed into the paddock if you're not wearing period clothing. I feel changes that try and take the sport "into the 21st century" detract from the whole vintage experience.

[Freakshow]

A few observations taken from the last few posts.
1: Freakys posts are usually all over the place, ill informed and poorly written. We don't bother trying to correct him as he usually goes off on a rabid blast about old school wankers daring to question his unique slant on the sport. As a newbie, you fell right into his trap Mr Bored.

I like to be referred to as upercase , lower case or all over the place.  

You just need to think faster and read between the lines. But deep down you know my slant rings home ( well if your under 40.)

Anyhow if you cant have a go at me, poor old firko or nathan will kop it  so im taking one for the team :

[211kawasaki]

Just wanted to confirm that the MA minutes are out and confirm the rumour, there is some work to do to change the situstion, Im guessing that this year we need to be seen to be attending to our current situation and improve the bikes.

Im not suggesting that we stop lobbying MA - quite the reverse, but we still have to work within the rules THIS year.

211

[firko]

Nathan, Nathan, Nathan. Things have been going along so agreeably and then you come along and ruin it all with a silly statement.   The following ......."How about looking at things in more general terms: More MX tracks are near houses than road race circuits. The road race circuits usually have far more significant/effective noise-abatement measures".......indicates that you may need to visit a few more venues. Eastern Creek is in the middle of suburbia, Oran Park is very close to Harrington Park and Cobbity rural communities, Calder is surrounded by suburban sprawl and many other road race circuits live within a cooee of housing. On the other hand, the tracks that Oldy mentioned, Ravrenswood is in a rural setting miles from housing, Barrabool is also miles from housing and on the NSW scene Clarence is miles from Lithgow and housing, Rockley is in Bum F#*K, Nowhere (Sorry Ribbo), Barleigh Ranch is miles rom the nearest house and Crawford River is also in a remote rural setting. Noise abatement isn't a major issue at those venues yet but it would be easily handled if implemented as at the road circuits. There is no reason that 102 db would be a problem at those circuits