Decibels

[Wombat]

vmx247, I don't quite get your meaning about where we live and 'do the far away Riders care?'.
I can guess the large majority of the VMXers who "wrote,protested,listened,read,whinged,nagged,email,phoned etc" probably 
live in suburbia.
I have no sage like qualities but I imagine VMX has a cross section similar to the average Australian demographic - and that majority live around the coastline and reside in the suburbs.

For myself, I've posted one or two comments (OK, lots) over the Decibels and Noise emmisions threads and I wrote a letter to MA - and I live a long way from Town on acreage.
And this means I can blat around the back paddock for as long as I like (I think that qualifies as a far away track).
But I'm not quite sure what my location has to do with it.
Can you elaborate?

[VMX247]

No can't elaborate, like I said it was a blonde moment.
I do know that some riders will just pay the big bucks for a ride and don't give a rats backside about noise issues etc. Shouldnt put people in a box should I.
Like I said before MA must be very aware where they build future tracks.
Who ever built Broadford may have had a future of the suburba growth in his sights and its in a great position.
I think I probably shot myself in the foot enough now.
cheers

[Wombat]

Fair point #247, unfortunately the 'burbs creep out to meet the tracks.
Most tracks were originally built waaay out in the donger.
Way out where the noise effects no-one; but then the 'burb's come to visit after several years and they start bitchin' about the noise in 'their' suburb.

I'm only one Lotto ticket away from creating the biggest kick-arse vintage-friendly track in the Country (aren't we all?).
All Vintage bikes are welcome, with pipes and noise as per how they left the Factory.
If we wanted '21st century' ideals we'd all be on moderns - and on a different website.

Isn't that what this sport and this website is about? VINTAGE, look it up!

[Tony T]

Hear, hear Wombat. My sentiments exactly. 

[Graeme M]

One thing I am curious about, and the latest MXA made this point, is how we got 96dB. According to MXA, the change by the AMA to the 98/99db level is actually equivalent to the FIM's 96dB ruling. BUT, the FIM level is measured at a very low RPM. I didn't quite follow that, but I think the point is that the FIM have gone with 96, but their testing requirements are somewhat more lax. The MA requirement is a measurement at around 7000 rpm which is a very high rpm and certainly makes it hard for an old machine to comply.

While I agree we do need to be responsible to a point, the truth is that at any given track there are not many vintage meets. Add in that the perceived noise would be less than for a normal MX given the lower numbers of competitors and generally lower speeds (and hence rpm levels) and I think it becomes a bit of a PC thing to be trying to meet that level. And of course, who really wants to see a whole lot of VMX bikes with bloody great non-original mufflers?

By the way, I do take the point someone made a bit earlier - that this could be a bit of a lip service exercise to make it look good but won't really be policed. On the other hand, if we do make a big deal out of it we may be inviting trouble.

Finally, I agree with Freaky in one respect. If you want to see real pedantry and bloody mindedness, just get old blokes to look after the rules for some hobby/sport/passion they are involved with... The world is full of old bastards who can't get their heads out of their arses.

[Rosco400]

The world is full of old bastards who can't get their heads out of their arses.

[Graeme M]

Nearly as good as the Sawtell cartoon from ADB back when GE was tilting at the ACU windmill...

[pokey]

And the opposite to bend over backwards to assist in an issue is the Anal Cranial genuflect.

On the surface it appears the guys who play in the dirt have the dirty end of the stick and as far as i can dig thats the end i keep picking up and i have to ask myself why?
 Could it be true that bias rules in favour of the road racers just because they have ex racers on the board?

Hmmm jokums razor states.Simplified version. The simpliest answer is often the best. ie: looks like a duck walk like a duck quacks like a duck ...its a duck.

It does appear that the VMX crew do have a hard task ahead of them in complying with the new ruling and a hard task it is .. unless you have a Harley which to my ears always seems to fly under the radar.
 Perhaps VMX or even MX is being targeted  for extinction by the powers that be.

The Bullshit and freakin rules of motocross or any comp riding  is the thing that  kept me away from competetitive riding .  VMX is more relaxed  or perhaps i feel more relaxed but that wont be the case if the rule boys stick their noses in and stuff up a damn good formula .
 A few years ago CAMS were made to pull their collective heads in and listen to protect the sport  and perhaps a few other ..authorities  ... could take a leaf.

Will take a lot of paper to wipe that head clean.. is it your head?

[090]

I think the db is measured at about 4500 rpm, definately not 7000

[Lozza]

Barleigh Ranch has it's perenial whinger's and residents action group otherwise the long proposed road race track and drag strip would already be operating.
I'm fairly certain that 102dB limit for road racing was arrived at because a submission based on  the technical difficulties in achieving a 96 dB limit blah blah blah etc etc etc.
With modern MX having a 96dB limit anyone dispassionately making a decision about a VMX dB limit would read all the "sights and sounds of the past" and "recreating the era" stuff and think these people need  to be dragged into the 21st century.Just my $0.02

[fatboyracing]

Hi Guys,
Firstly as a MA noise tester we will set a few things straight
1. RPM
up to 85cc  8000 rpm
85cc to 125cc 7000 rpm
125cc to 250cc 5000 rpm
251cc to 500cc 4500 rpm
over 500cc 4000 rpm

2. For tests using a type 2 meter the limit is 98.9db as per 12.10.3.3 of 2008 GCRs
Most testers are using type 2 meters.

We need to start doing some work to get our bikes down to comply. It is no point in doing nothing and hoping it will go away. The rule for 2008 will stay at 96 db and will not change.
Please dont stop lobbing MA as I did by sending letters as I think that the more people we get to send letters and make calls to the MA board members the more chance we can get them to have another look next year.

I was in Melbourne a week ago for a MA council meeting and I spoke with the board and the CEO of MA about the new limit and I got the impresion that ALL forms of racing will be the same level next year.

I have a lot to do with MA and I dont think that the comment about them being all old crusty bastards with there head up there arses is fair as the board is lead by the SCBs and if you dont lobby your SCBs when we have a problem then how can the board be blamed for decisions that they make.

I am not on the board but I am counciler for MTAS and I listen to what clubs want and when issues come up I can try to protect the interests of the club involved.

I think that maybe we start a protition about the noise limit and all you riders out there could take a copy to your next club race days and get all members to sign it. If we all do that than put them together and present them to MA than we could perhaps get a truer idea of how many people this decision effects.


Cheers
Shane Fraser
Fatboy Racing

[Graeme M]

Those noise levels are interesting. Given a 450 MX thumper revs to about 10000 and a 250 probably 12 or more, a 4500 rpm measuring point for the big bore probably has a different effect on noise to a 125 2-stroke at 7000 wouldn't you think?

I agree we need to do something about noise, especially a field of 450 thumpers at full noise (10000 rpm, not 4500) with after market exhausts. But it just doesn't make sense to penalise the old bikes which in many cases will require work to conform, and which are not the norm at any racetrack. That said, I accept that LOCAL noise laws do take precedence. Regardless of anything we say here, if an event at my local track gets measured and goes over, the autorities will take action.

As for crusty old blokes, I didn't say that MA is necessarily composed of such. My observation extends to everything - local bike clubs, VMX forums, flower arranging clubs, persian cat fanciers, you name it. It's a peculiar thing. A generalising stereotype, sure, but true.

I'm still contemplating my RM125M. I cannot bring myself to butcher the stock pipe, and I really want to ride it with that pipe. No easy answer to that one.  Do I have to run my aftermarket pipe? Hmmm...

[huskyrider78]

So can anyone confirm or deny the rumour going around that the noise level issue will NOT be enforced at the Tassie Nats?

I just want to book my boat ticket. But I'm not going to unless I know I am not going to be knocked back at scrutineering because my vintage motocross bike sounds like it was meant to.

I'm with others - I'm servicing my 30 y.o. Koni shocks because I want my bikes to be vintage so I certainly don't want to F around with pipes and packing to bring them line with 21st centrury red-tape.

If I restore an 1969 MGB - am I going to rip out the dashboard and steering wheel and put in a 2008 airbag so that it meets today standards? No - I just want to drive that 1969 MGB goddammit!

[Wombat]

Nicely and wisely put Fatboy; you have moderating tones not unlike Martin Luther King!
A timely reminder the people at the top of MA do actually like motorcycles and do their best to keep things humming along.
I think the petition is a great idea and will certainly put some hefty numbers on the page.

I firmly believe the large majority of VMXers disagree with these current db levels, but not all will get around to writing a letter (as we have seen).

Husky78s analogy of the MGB being brought up to current '21st century' standards (airbag) is exactly what we don't want. And who was it who said we're not into "twin shock moderns"?
They're spot on and I'll say it again, "VINTAGE, look it up!"

[Freakshow]

As for  persian cat fanciers, you name it. It's a peculiar thing. A generalising stereotype, sure, but true.

IS our persian cat fancier no other than one 414 ?

I like your thinking, you get the petition, we'll get the signitures.  IF nothing else at least by doing so we have done somthing rather than sitting on our hands.  To keep this on the table and front of house. 

I still say 96 should be a target level with 102 db the cut off for the start line perhaps.  FWIW.

Wombat you speak the truth.
Greame finally getting on the same page.
FBC - i knew you where a closet tester, took you a while to fess up though.
Husky - you rock.
247 your blond but at least your cute.