Decibels

[Freakshow]

woops i retract that i actually just got one, thanx ross :O)

Good Morning Kerry (or should I say Freakshow),
 
Thanks for the email which will be discussed by the MA Board at their meeting today.
 
MA received 25 objections to the 96dbA ruling. I had thought there would have been more than this.
 
MA will release the decisions of the Board when approved.
 
Regards,
 
Ross Martin
Motorcycling Australia

[Wombat]

25 objections?! Wow, guts effort...

Just maybe we made too big a deal of it?
Maybe we assumed the VMXers would be against the new rule?
Maybe everyone else is happy to bend over and comply?
But that's Democracy; let's wait and see.

[Tony T]

There are 411 members on this forum alone and only 25 objections.
Even if you're like me and don't get to many events, I want those events to still be there when I do get time, and for the sport to grow.

[Tim754]

25 ! Well Well.... Personal thought, That is as forked as 96 decibels. No cheers today to all that cannot even lift a finger and type on the keyboard if front of your red faces, Shit we even gave you the address. You lazy ****s  Tim754

[gorby]

There must only be 25 people like me that thought the 96db level was too restrictive

pretty pisspoor response to what seemed like a big issue.

How can our representatives on the MA try to get a rule changed with so few objectors.

Looks like everybody else is happy to try and muffle their bikes.

Well,as I see it,if you did not object,then you must be happy,so don't bother whinging when you get pinged

[huskyrider78]

It's a two-way street.

I contacted MVIC to try and get them to provide information to our club on having all the bikes tested at one of our practice days (either supplying a tester or telling me where we could source one to use ourselves).
I mentioned that we were concerned of the impact and also that it was an important issue esp with the Nationals coming up.

2 emails and 2 phone calls went unanswered.

Managed to cash my membership cheque same day though.

[firko]

You know, I'm not the least bit surprised that MA only got 25 objections to the 96db proposal. We're dealing with the exact same people that have to be begged to enter a meeting, are crying out for new classes but don't even support the ones we've got and who would rather lay shit on each others bikes on this forum than do something positive for our sports future. The cyber racer lives on while another nail gets hammered into the VMX coffin.  25/411 is a piss poor effort and we should all be ashamed.

[Freakshow]

well it went to the board today so if its passed to amend it wont be thanks to the other 380 or so idlers out there.   :'(

5 stars to the 25 though, least you tried.

[GD66]

 Ease up a tad there, lads. I sent one, and so did our club. But, as pointed out at our club meeting, the submission sent by the club represents 85 members, so it's not quite as bleak as you imply. Still a less than impressive response, all the same.  I questioned the lack of lead time that such submissions normally receive, and my reply from Ross Martin indicated that the introduction of the 96db limit for 2008, was included in the 2007 MoMS, so the year's intro time has been upheld. So guess what, it's not news ! My bottom line was based upon the fact that we have seen NO testing to support the necessity for a noise reduction, but I fear all these submissions will be too little, too late, and as usual, some slimeball with an agenda has got his way once again....

[Graeme M]

You know, maybe I am just not very alert or switched on, but I really wasn't aware that there was some MA meeting this week that offered an opportunity to do something about it. I have followed this thread, perhaps not in obsessive detail, but enough to know the sound rule is a big issue.

I had no foreknowledge that the rule was coming in for 2008, I don't believe I ever got a letter from MA, my local club, my vintage club, or any of the actual representatives that the rule was coming in, and I don't really read the MoMS. For that matter, I have never been informed of any rule changes in 2008.

What is the mechanism? Is there something in the MoMS that informs of proposed rule changes? What is the avenue for doing something about amendments that we may be opposed to?

What was the MA meeting that everyone is referring to, and how much of an opportunity was there to really make a difference?

If as I was led to believe our (elected?) representatives like Mark and David and so on were working behind the scenes, surely they speak for a lot more than the 25 who did write in? Why does there need to be some huge active swell of dissent? Isn't there a formal avenue or process whereby the wishes of the majority are represented? Is the way that MA works that they do what they like unless everyone in Australia forms a lynch mob and hangs them from the nearest post?

I guess I should have really taken a lot more notice. If I had twigged that this meeting was so critical, I'd have created a full on poll system here on OzVMX, got everyone to vote and sent the results off to MA. I can still do it if it would help.

Finally, I am not having a go at anyone and I am just as guilty as everyone of not doing enough in this instance. But I really just didn't realise that something actually *could* be done. I sort of gathered that there was work on behind the scenes to make a change and that our letters might help that along.

By the way, I did write in, though not until the last minute - Monday AM...

[Freakshow]

YEp last year greame we razed it here  again on ypour old forums and made a big deal about it then as coming in the rules for 2008, im not sure what else we have to do to do explain it to folks, the rule is in right now, we are trying to get it changed, thats what the represetations where all about, guys like 211 and fbc are working behind the scene in there respective areas but we where trying to get it higher up on the agenda.  im just confused as to why everyone is building all these bikes , because once they get the testing kits out there your are screwed, you just havent seen it enforced as such cause MA are setting up and training folkis, what brought it to the head again was it will be enforced at the national meets so unless you can be sure your under 96DB best you buy a bloody big can for it as you might spend your time in the pits full stop once they get the testers up to speed, tassie is a long way and $$ if your just hopig youll get through.  What we wanted was a saftey blanket so everyone could be sure they willk be riding not parked, and lining VMX up with the HIstoric road racing at 102 db would give us a fair chance to self correct.

Forget tyre widths or rivetts - SOmeone at 96 dbcould even protest your position if you cant make the DB level ?

I just figure know most guys are to old to race and are building all this stuff for garage queens.

Im sure it will work its way out in the wash  eventually but it might be a painful ride till its fixed.

[Wombat]

Somewhere throughout this discussion I asked the question 'just who is pushing for this noise reduction?'.
Can anyone shed light on this? I'm serious; where has it come from? Somebody, somebody, anybody??!!
Some of the Forum members are very well connected as the saying goes; who started this ball rolling - someone must know?
And this particular quote from Graeme struck a chord with me:

What is the mechanism? Is there something in the MoMS that informs of proposed rule changes? What is the avenue for doing something about amendments that we may be opposed to?

What was the MA meeting that everyone is referring to, and how much of an opportunity was there to really make a difference?

If as I was led to believe our (elected?) representatives like Mark and David and so on were working behind the scenes, surely they speak for a lot more than the 25 who did write in? Why does there need to be some huge active swell of dissent? Isn't there a formal avenue or process whereby the wishes of the majority are represented? Is the way that MA works that they do what they like unless everyone in Australia forms a lynch mob and hangs them from the nearest post?

[Graeme M]

I must have overlooked that thread in the old forum, or just not taken enough notice. I suppose I just assumed that 'they' would take care of it? I have to admit that I tend to avoid anything relating to rules and administration cos that sort of stuff makes me feel ill.

But getting back to the matter at hand right now. What was that meeting this week? Why is it so critical? The comment from 211 a little while back, or was it Mark A, indicated that they were working on things and that an announcement might be made about changes for the Tassie Nats. So is that not the case?

And who is so hellbent on having vintage dirtbikes conform to an unrealistic 96dB? Why is it so hard to achieve parity with an entirely comparable situation, that of historic road racing (incidentally always going to be louder than dirtbikes cos they don't spend much time not at WFO)?

If a difference can be made, why is it so dependent on this meeting of a day or so ago? If MA need a real show of force, then  asking people to write in is unlikely to work. But I guarantee a poll on here would get plenty of support. But again how much does that mean? What does MA really need to make changes? I would have thought if the riders representatives put forward the riders opinion that should be enough? Or do MA require some sort of members vote to be able to assess how serious the reps opinions are? I think it all sounds pretty amateurish to be honest.

[Nathan S]

For better or for worse, I didn't submit anything. The whole thing is (was?) far too abstract for me. Here's why:

1. The old noise limit was 'never' tested, so why will this change for the new limit?

2. If 96dB really is as unworkable as we're told, how many abandoned VMX meetings will it take before MA realises this and reconsiders? If it really is as bad as we're told, then we'll get a lot more than one shot at getting it right.

3. I have no idea how loud a 96dB bike is. There's no way I can honestly say that an enforced 96dB limit will be the death of our sport - I'm not saying it won't be a problem, but nor will I put my name to anything that says it will be a disaster.
Through all the pages of discussion on this topic, I don't recall seeing any examples of bikes that are acceptable (or unacceptable) - no comments like "my stock '74 CR125 blew 103dB even with a freshly repacked muffler".... Nobody saying "I've tried all of the tricks, but I can't get the YZ250E under 99dB".

Like I said, it all seems too abstract. I'm sure I'm not alone among the hand-sitters in this regard. Personally, I'm keen to see what happens at CD5 - and I am dead keen to have my bikes tested there.
Then, armed with some real-world knowledge of the topic, I'll feel comfortable forming an opinion stronger than my current wary feeling.

 

[oz555ktm]

Nathan My Friend ACT has been 96db for the last 6 to 8 years
that why we have so much to do with the EPA.

That why we have a Noise meter test spot .
Thats why we move the start to stop noise going to the Rigeway homes .
That's why Dirt track has a dirt bank all the way around .
I could go on .

We work with the EPA .
We have Noise Credits .
Go over and we loose points and you don't get them back .

The ACT Runs Old Bikes . With out any problem

Noise has been a thing for years .we all have been told to keep our
bike quiet in the bush and ABD and trail & Track all told us .

Racers know to Pack mufflers as you loose power with a unpacked Muffler.

and 4 strokes Loud dose not mean that it is Fast . It Just sounds that way.

SO when NSW and QLD and VIC was 103 the ACT was 96db because the ACT Governments EPA made it that way.