Author Topic: POMEROYS RACE WINNING BULTACO  (Read 137785 times)

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Offline jerry

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Re: POMEROYS RACE WINNING BULTACO
« Reply #150 on: February 14, 2011, 10:16:04 am »
Swiss would you have Al Oppies contact details by any chance? Perhaps he could throw some light on the great frame debate. Cheers Jerry

Offline JC

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Re: POMEROYS RACE WINNING BULTACO
« Reply #151 on: February 14, 2011, 10:20:25 am »
Thanks Swiss. My immediate tho't when I 1st saw that bike (above) was: What would it do to yr knees?  Pain pain pain!!  No wonder JP had shot knees w artificial (steel) joints by 76!

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Also, the story as I understood it was that JP didn’t go to Europe to race the GPs in 73, it just happened while he was there. If it was planned then Bultaco would probably not have let him use another frame

I've heard a few versions of what happened & how - some out of left field. The most consistent reports seem to indicate:

He was sent to Europe mainly by US Bultaco to train up w Marcell Weirtz (Belgian Bul importer & GP rider)in Belgium for 2.5mths, doing some I'national pre-season races there & the 1st GP in Spain, then come home to race the US nationals. John Grace (former Bul factory roadracer in UK/Europe), one of the then-chiefs in Bul USA told Snr Bulto, I'm sending you a young US rider I think you'll like.  After 2mths he (JP) hated it & wanted to go home.

JP himself said (in Cycle News Nov 12, 97)  "I (signed) to do 1 GP in Europe; the Spanish GP. I ended up winning it, & then my contract was redone & I stayed the season".


The trinaing was very effective in getting his speed up. He was quoted in Cycle Illust'd: "The 1st time I went there [a track in Belgium] it took 2min 35sec to make a lap. But then for 2mths I was cutting it down shorter & shorter & shorter. I'd be training w Marcel & once in a while Gaston Rahier or someone else would come out... Anyway, from 2min 35 I got it down to 2min & 7secs & I could make the same lap time every time for 45mins"


One of my favourite stories about JP, from the same Cycle News is that Joel Robert was quoted as once calling him "the fastest man in GP racing". I asked Joel about that at CD5. His reply was, "I don't recall saying that but he was very fast & could have been world champion except he kept breaking wheels"

Another bit of relevant info that shows why I'm reluctant to believe claims in print without conclusive evidence is that it was claimed in "Historia de la Pursang" (2003):  

"In this period [70-71], collaborations w Joel Robert were intensified. [theres a pic of him riding a Mk4 w'out a helmet in June 71 giving 'classes to Bultaco riders in San Antonio']. The champion, official Suzuki racer, was about to sign up w Bultaco, & an engine was made according to his instructions under maximum secrecy, & known by the anagram of his surname - Trevor".  I also asked Joel about that at CD5 & he responded w some astonishment - as if it was news to him - politely but clearly indicating that there was not truth in it.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2011, 01:26:04 pm by JC »

Offline jerry

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Re: POMEROYS RACE WINNING BULTACO
« Reply #152 on: February 14, 2011, 10:25:15 am »
Looking forward to what Firko has to say if he speaks to Ron Pomeroy.

Swiss

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Re: POMEROYS RACE WINNING BULTACO
« Reply #153 on: February 14, 2011, 12:11:28 pm »
Jerry,

Sorry, I haven't seen Al since he did my cylinder head from side to center port and then a bit later did a magneto adapter for me to run an XL125 magneto on my XL350.    That was in the mid-70s.  Only thing I heard after that (moved from the Seattle area) was when he opened the shop with Bob Braverman and was doing the special Honda builds.

Swiss

He would be in his 80s or 90s by now?  Can't remember the names of the Father/Son who owned University Honda/Bultaco?  Been too long but I used to run into them at the Puyallup MX track on occasion.  They had the MX rider Buck Murphey as their sponsored rider on their Honda XL special and I loved seeing it kick some butt on the big Maico bikes.  They were supposed to run it for the Trans-AMA race but they broke the tranny in practice the week before and couldn't get replacement gears and get it back together fast enough.  Don't think that they had the Bell/Webster gears at that time.  Buck showed up for the race on of all things a Rokon MX model.  Well it rained cats and dogs and 1/2 of the track was flooded and they almost called the race off.  With the belt drive, Buck struggled and almost made it around the track for 1 lap before he gave up because the bike wouldn't even pull itself around through the muddy ponds that were all around the track.  The inside of the banked turn at the end of the start straight was almost 3' deep in water and the water covered over 1/2 the turn.  It was a mess racing!

The University Honda XL440 said to weigh 221lbs.  Built in 1974


Swiss
« Last Edit: February 14, 2011, 12:16:30 pm by Swiss »

Offline JC

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Re: POMEROYS RACE WINNING BULTACO
« Reply #154 on: February 14, 2011, 01:24:18 pm »
When and if we all agree on the frame then the problem may be chasing one down! Did I mention that the one I have in my garage looks like it could be a "factory" frame! Cheers Jerry.


Are you serious or being facetious about the frame in yr garage? Can you describe it? Or better still, post a pic?


I found this in 97 LaVoz de SMOG classifieds:
 
"For sale or trade...M89 frame, it's chrome-molly, don't ask me how". 
(M89 is Mk5 125 pursang, 1972)

Offline huskibul

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Re: POMEROYS RACE WINNING BULTACO
« Reply #155 on: February 14, 2011, 01:29:32 pm »
   Begs the question were the 125's a different frame (maybe cro-mo)to the 250/325 ?

firko

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Re: POMEROYS RACE WINNING BULTACO
« Reply #156 on: February 14, 2011, 02:34:34 pm »
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Looking forward to what Firko has to say if he speaks to Ron Pomeroy.
Me too....It's Sunday over there so I'll ring him early tomorrow morning (our time). I'm just back from three days of doing the baby boomer mosh pit thing at the Goulburn Blues Festival and I'm walking wounded, I've picked up an annoying dose of diarrhea, I'm passing a kidney stone and I'm carrying a killer hangover, the triple whammy! I had a monster time though!

While I've been out of town this thread seems to have grown legs. I've just gone through the thread from post 1 and while I think some interesting points have been raised, I think some of them are a bit misleading. Here are my thoughts as the thread stands at the moment.

•   I think it’s probable that Pomeroy’s ’73 Spanish GP bike featured an aftermarket frame. The claim made by CMS in the Dirt Rider piece is backed by Pomeroy himself and respected journalist Frank Melling (JCs post #20) which to me is interesting.

•   The statement by Pomeroy to at least eight people at CD4 that there were two official stories, the official story that it was a factory prepped stocker and the real story that it’d been prepared by his American sponsor, presumably Terry Saxland from University Bultaco or Al Oppie. The fact that Pomeroy often contradicts himself by using either story at different times confuses the matter even more….
“Three days before the Spanish GP I took a Pursang out of the crate, assembled it and took it to my first GP ever.....I had no mechanics at the time, only a support program through University Bultaco in Seattle. I was not a good mechanic but a new bike out of the crate was best for me”. (Pursang Story excerpt, Stans post # 18 ) This contradicts his statements in other interviews, hinting that Pomeroy would use either story, depending on the situation at hand.

•   The big question is ….Who made the frame? Let’s look at the possibilities.
CMS. This little one man factory is the only maker to have actually claimed that they’d made the frame.
Doug Schwerma/Champion . As big a fan I am of the late Dougs work, I feel that his particular design quirks put him out of the race. Observing Schwerma’s penchant for promotion and the company’s higher profile, I would also have presumed that the Pomeroy connection would have come to light at some stage during the company’s existence.
Dr Joe Bolger. I doubt Joe had anything to do with this particular bike. By 1973 he was beginning a relationship with OSSA and it’s been rumoured that the Phantom and M.A.R. trials bike may have featured some of Joes input. The fact that Bolger was East Coast based contradicts the “California made” claims as well.
The Bultaco Factory. If not for the ‘made in America’ claims, my money would be on the frame being made in the Barcelona factory, possibly using imported Chro-Mo steel tubing.

I hope that Ron Pomeroy can finally put an end to our guesswork. I’ll also ask him if Jims sponsor, Terry Saxland is still around and if so, has he a contact #. If that lead comes off, I’ll contact Saxland. If those two blokes don’t know, nobody will know.

Swiss

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Re: POMEROYS RACE WINNING BULTACO
« Reply #157 on: February 14, 2011, 03:10:00 pm »
Thanks, Terry Saxlund was the shop owner of University Honda/Bultaco and he, his son and Al Oppie built the Honda XL pictured above.  If Terry is no longer around, Ron should know his son's name and that might be another path to investigate.  I am sure that Terry's son would have hung around the shop while Jimmy was sponsored by them.

Swiss

Offline jerry

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Re: POMEROYS RACE WINNING BULTACO
« Reply #158 on: February 14, 2011, 04:07:24 pm »
I wish! Sorry JC ( my sense of humour) the only factory aspect is that it was made in one (with probably a dirt floor!) However I do think (hope) it may be a chrome moly one as I think this bike might have a little bit of Bert Flood history. As you may know it's a 125.Its been radically ported has a professionally strengthened swingarm a MK7 Paintjob on the tank and a different exhaust hanger bracket that was not seen untill the MK7 model. It also has a MK7 front brake hub. Peter Schoene is going to have a look. He will know if Floody had his hands on it. Cheers Jerry
PS I will weigh the frame when I get a chance. Would about 12 kg be the figure I'm looking for to confirm Chrome moly?

Offline Stan S

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Re: POMEROYS RACE WINNING BULTACO
« Reply #159 on: February 14, 2011, 05:59:46 pm »
Just to confuse the subject here is my spare unmolested Mk7 frame and swing arm.
The bare Mk7 frame weighs 8.545kg's and the bare swing arm weighs 2.570kg's.

Stan.



Offline JC

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Re: POMEROYS RACE WINNING BULTACO
« Reply #160 on: February 14, 2011, 06:14:45 pm »
Quote
respected journalist Frank Melling (JCs post #20)

He also claimed JPs bike weighed 15lbs under the FIM weight limilt at the Spanish GP!!


I don't think anybody was suggesting Joe Bolger built it. AFAIK he didn't build frames


Quote
However I do think (hope) it may be a chrome moly one as I think this bike might have a little bit of Bert Flood history. As you may know it's a 125.Its been radically ported has a professionally strengthened swingarm a MK7 Paintjob on the tank and a different exhaust hanger bracket that was not seen untill the MK7 model. It also has a MK7 front brake hub.

Jerry, it does seem like some of the late MK6s had many MK7 features. Is yrs a late #?


Offline jerry

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Re: POMEROYS RACE WINNING BULTACO
« Reply #161 on: February 14, 2011, 06:46:43 pm »
Let you know soon.

Offline jerry

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Re: POMEROYS RACE WINNING BULTACO
« Reply #162 on: February 14, 2011, 07:16:25 pm »
VB 10001410 ENGINE AND FRAME. VIC BITTER???

Offline Stan S

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Re: POMEROYS RACE WINNING BULTACO
« Reply #163 on: February 14, 2011, 07:24:21 pm »
VB 10001410 ENGINE AND FRAME. VIC BITTER???

Very Best  ;D

Offline jerry

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Re: POMEROYS RACE WINNING BULTACO
« Reply #164 on: February 14, 2011, 07:28:23 pm »
Could be Stanley must have been hot in the welding bay om a summers day in downtown Barcelona. Any joy with the rear hub? Cheers Jerry PS Has this thread got some life or what?