are there too many class's in VMX

[worms]

oh, we cant have anybody training for a National Title, my god no, that just wouldnt be VMX.

where's that shirt when i need it

 Cheers sandworms

[VMX247]

Worms you lost me way back,but he/they must think VMX Nats and all else has value and worth if he's training for them !!
cheers

[worms]

I was lost on page one!

if you must train to compete, it must be worth competiting for.

so thus, is why they are called the Nationals,

cheers sandworms ( ive never beaten a 3 lapper yet, but there's still hope, make em do 4,5,6 and with a bit of training)

[vandy010]

I dont mind really what format races, how many rounds we have, how long each race is, it would just take our governing body to clearly say this is whats required to hold that title, it's MA's tittle

oh well, it may well come down to the first cnr wins oneday.

 either split the comp or run 2 rounds instead of 3, but make the races longer.

there a touch of contradiction in there Trev.
stop procrastinating and go and order your "beat the three lapper" shirt now.

WARNING!
maths ahead.
hypothetical.
 if each race is around10~15 minutes long, i'm estimating a turnaround of races {time of each drop of the gate} of around 20 minutes.
that allows the tailend rider to complete thier race,exit the track and general prep to allow the next race to begin..so with a 20minute turnaround of races on the program. if we start at
9am  and finish at 4pm
thats 7hrs and 21 races.
you following so far?

pre~65                       no age group racing         3 races in total
pre~70-250                 for these 3 events
pre~70-open

pre~75-125               2 age groups for each category     9 races
pre~75-250               combined up to 49yrs                in total          pre~75-open              & then 50 yrs and over

pre~78-125                 age groups as above               9 races
pre~78-250                                                     in total
pre~78-open
                               thats 21 race events on the program.
spread out over 3 days,
scrutineering/practice on the friday,
2 rounds of racing per category,
round 1, saturday
round 2 sunday                                
thats a big meeting. so when us as organisers can deliver longer races to avoid seeing those 3 lap shirts, then yehah!
a program like this is just an idea and still doesn't allow for many things but i guess we can't please all the people all of the time now can we.

but what if?
MA decide to rule something completely silly like, a race to the first turn wins the trophy?
well, at least we'd have a clear guideline from our governing body as to what it takes to win a tittle.

[JohnnyO]

I would like to know if anyone that actually races on here actually trains as well. You need to train and ride a fair bit to race for twenty minutes at some sort of pace.

And isn't that how motocross is meant to be... it was never as easy as getting of the lounge and winning a National Title, until 3 lap races were introduced.

[VMX247]

MA are probaly waiting to see what happens for the next two years and then the split will apply, as prevously posted.
You need clubs backing to have your say.Push the club not some forum that has a small % of Nat riders involved in posting. IMO.
cheers

[Captain Bilko]

Three X 3 laps is crap. As it's been stated you only have to have one bungle and that's it for you. As was also pointed out if it took a little more effort to win said title then people would be more inclined to stick to one or two classes.

I don't see any problem if someone actually has to put a little thought into winning an "Australian Title". It shouldn't be a 'gimme'.

Longer (and more) races would also put a bit more emphasis on bike reliability. Something I'd really like to see.

I can hear cries of "Yeah well some guys wont come if it's too tough!". Big deal. Let 'em stay at home and polish their bikes for CD.......

* And whilst they're at it put in some decent jumps and doubles and stuff for everything Evo and later (That's right kids. Like on a proper motocross track...). First person to whine about "the bumpy bits" gets taken to a quiet place and beaten to death.

[worms]

great post Vandy, i will order the shirts now!

why push the clubs , their MA's Titles, they print a MOM's each year, but just forget the bit about what actually consitutes a race, so the forum is as good as anyware to start, and most people hate it when we talk about the sport and where its heading, and having debates, ow your opinion is too strong, I 'll upset the old peoples home making races longer, old fred takes 10 minutes just to get to the line :'(, hey we will give him the National if he makes the first cnr .

Cheers sandworms,  

[worms]

sorry firko, where still on "whats a National title and whats it worth"

seems the mood is shifting towards a set requirement to call it a National Title.

I will hold off printing those shirts just yet Vandy, sorry mate

even though they would look good

Cheers worms

[firko]

OK...Seeing that we're still on subject....
I think that it's a given that the duration of a race is taken from how long the bloke in last place takes to cover the distance rather than how long the winner takes. Using the 3 lap races held at the 2009 Conondale Nats the following emerged.
Starting with the times for slower classes first, the winner of the over sixties Rob Newman did his 3 laps in 9:12.403
and the last place getter did it in 12:17:529
The over fifties winner Andrew Bailey did his three laps in8:29:118 while the last placegetter did it in 9:52:786
Moving onto the fast guys
Dean Burt won the Evo 500 class with a 3 lap time of 7:37:338 while the last placegetter did it in 10:08:608.

Using those lap times its easily seen that the 10 and 12 minute motos are already in place. As we all know, the Conondale Nats went right to the wire thanks to a serious accident requiring a helicopter taking a big lump out of the program, causing the races to be cut to two laps. With a full program of entries I'd reckon the current 10-12 minute races are about all that can be fitted in right now at Conondale. Other tracks may be different and be more suitable for more laps for the same duration but as it is right now, 10 and 12 minute races is about it.

I agree that in an ideal world, 15 minutes is the go for the younger age classes but until the Metcher Proposal is passed and the Nats is split, we're pretty much stuck with what we've got.

[shorelinemc]

SIDE CAR CLASSES ARE AS FOLLOWS PRE 68/PRE75/PRE 85 -THERE IS NO EVO OR PRE 78 CARS CLASS IS DIFFERENT TO SOLOS COS WE ARE SPECIAL

[JohnnyO]

OK...Seeing that we're still on subject....
I think that it's a given that the duration of a race is taken from how long the bloke in last place takes to cover the distance rather than how long the winner takes. Using the 3 lap races held at the 2009 Conondale Nats the following emerged.
Starting with the times for slower classes first, the winner of the over sixties Rob Newman did his 3 laps in 9:12.403
and the last place getter did it in 12:17:529
The over fifties winner Andrew Bailey did his three laps in8:29:118 while the last placegetter did it in 9:52:786
Moving onto the fast guys
Dean Burt won the Evo 500 class with a 3 lap time of 7:37:338 while the last placegetter did it in 10:08:608.

Using those lap times its easily seen that the 10 and 12 minute motos are already in place. As we all know, the Conondale Nats went right to the wire thanks to a serious accident requiring a helicopter taking a big lump out of the program, causing the races to be cut to two laps. With a full program of entries I'd reckon the current 10-12 minute races are about all that can be fitted in right now at Conondale. Other tracks may be different and be more suitable for more laps for the same duration but as it is right now, 10 and 12 minute races is about it.

I agree that in an ideal world, 15 minutes is the go for the younger age classes but until the Metcher Proposal is passed and the Nats is split, we're pretty much stuck with what we've got.

That's a ridiculous post Firko, moto's are never measured by the last place guy to cross the line and never will be. Last place probably spent a minute lying on the ground resting after a fall anyway..
The Nats obviously need to be split to cater for longer moto's.

[Shaun G]

I agree that in an ideal world, 15 minutes is the go for the younger age classes but until the Metcher Proposal is passed and the Nats is split, we're pretty much stuck with what we've got.

Just out of interest Firko or anyone else that may know.

Where does it stand with regards to the Metcher proposal at the moment? I believe the feedback to MA was positive from the majority of stakeholders. So what/when is the next step in getting the proposal ratified and included in the MOM's?

Cheers
Shaun

[vandy010]

moto's are never measured by the last place guy to cross the line and never will be.

it's all about fitting longer moto's into the program and you can't start the next race untill the last place guy is off the paddock.
i'm with Firko,
the Metcher proposal has merrit.

[worms]

are we there yet

sorry i have to say it's all about what consitutes a race, It dosnt matter how slow ar fast someone is, what is the current defining rule that says "a National title race will be"?

then we can work with Cols proposal,

 how can you make worms fit in a can, if you have no idea of how worms youve got?

Ive had great response to the 3 lapper shirts , who else wants one?

cheers sandworms