Pre 90/Pre 95 in Classic MX. An idea whose time has come?

[All Things 414]

Ok good idea, but instead would like to see the cut off at 99 instead of going to 2005.

Hey!  I've got a 2000 model and it's not really different from the '99 model. Will the carry-over rule apply to this?

There'll certainly be riders out there looking at the tired 2009 practice bike at the back of the garage and wistfully thinking about the 'good old days'

[All Things 414]

Actually......when I think about it......my 2000 model isn't a lot different to my '97 model which was very similar to my '94 YZ. So by that rationale my 2000 should really be a carry-over model from my '94 model and I should be able to compete in Pre 95.

So I can use it in Pre 95 and moderns! Yay! I'm off to put some good tyres on it......

[AjayVMX]

Actually......when I think about it......my 2000 model isn't a lot different to my '97 model which was very similar to my '94 YZ. So by that rationale my 2000 should really be a carry-over model from my '94 model and I should be able to compete in Pre 95.

So I can use it in Pre 95 and moderns! Yay! I'm off to put some good tyres on it......

Exactly. 

[All Things 414]

Hey I'm serious. I'm sick of trying to keep three bikes on the go.......
Now I'll be able to reflect on "the good ol' days" with a tear in my eye and still show up some of the 4t 'supercrossers' of today on a 500 buck, eBay throw-away. A win-win situation.

[paul]

I'm sick of trying to keep three bikes on the go....... mmmmmmm  then have a rest  ,

[All Things 414]

I'll bring the Scotch Fingers, you bring the pop.....

[GMC]

One thing that struck me about the other Pre 95 thread was that I didn’t realize so many were so paranoid about the future.
No topic has ever been taboo on here but it seems the “Era that can not be mentioned” should not be talked about at all with more calls to delete this thread and pretend it never happened.

I think Graeme is mostly on the money although I don’t agree with his class structure.
And while post 90 doesn’t mean anything to me (never owned a 90’s model bike) I can see that younger people will see differently.
Yes, one day the younguns will worship a different God.

But I think that it may be close to a decade away, depending on when a “doer” decides to make it happen.
I also think it would, and should be outside the current VMX movement.

As I tried to point out in the other thread and as 414 has noted here, a Pre 95 class will be plagued by flow on arguments. Any class that is to be defined by engine and frame No’s is doomed so the younguns will have some serious thinking to do.

I think the only reason that WA has kept to Pre 75 is because no one could be bothered starting another movement, until recently anyway.
From what I know, in Vic the Pre 75’s started off strong, but then guys started remembering the late seventies models and pre 80 was born. This caused a split and the pre 75 and post 75 guys went their separate ways and Viper was born.
Years later much the same happened again when Pre 75 faction tried to introduce I think pre 78.
Another split came that now sees us with 2 Pre 75 movements, and quite stupidly we have this weekend a choice of 2 different Pre 75 races
VCM at Mirboo Nth
&
Classic Scramble Club at Gellibrand.
While pre 75 riders are plentiful in Vic they are torn between which faction to support. Most guys I meet couldn’t give a shit about the politics of it all and just want to ride.

It seems that Heaven may be facing a similar dilemma with some calling for Pre 90 and some against it.
Interestingly I note that the most outspoken against Pre 90 for Heaven on here have no intention of riding a heaven event.
It may cause another faction to start up or it may keep going the same for many more years.
But one thing I picked up on is that they have open practice days on the Sat.
This seems like a great move by the club but I can see that with moderns riding the track it would probably alienate the pre 75 guys which is maybe why numbers are down.
Pre 90 itself won’t change much but it does form the platform to split the class’s at Pre 75 / 78
It wasn’t that long ago many thought this was a good idea for the Nats.
If Heaven can manage the split within the club it could go on to be the strongest club in Aust. As once different factions start then they seem to work against each other.
Viper do well with the Evo, 85, 90 classes with a modern support class thrown in. From what I hear the format works well. Although I think the modern class could do well to be an over 40 modern class. This would have the effect of attracting older people to the event that then may be attracted to the older bikes for an extra ride. Although I know it’s the hosting club that relies on the moderns.
If Heaven tried this and kept the pre 75’s to there own days then it may grow again.

One thing to be sure is that any promoting club needs bums on seats to survive, and the one killer is the “us & them” syndrome.

[Tossa]

I think the only reason that WA has kept to Pre 75 is because no one could be bothered starting another movement, until recently anyway.

Not quite true as the pre85 was tried a few yrs back, but they didn't form their own club, they became part of the BSA club.  The only problem was that they remained as a class of the club you could only run in club runs.

Now the push is much bigger, as a seperate club (pre85MXWA), they have been able to run at modern events as a support class ie manjimup 15000, King of the Cross and recently a flat track event with the Northam MC, some of these events are now attracting prize money.  The club is just under a yr old and growing rapidly with it's first event to be held with the VMXWA club a grass track event at bridgetown in November, slowly but surely growing stronger.  but not taking anything away from the VMXWA club, but enhancing it.

[GMC]

  but not taking anything away from the VMXWA club, but enhancing it.

Yes, I see this sort of split as a good thing, allthough I think you would do well to be on non supercross type tracks.
The only thing to debate is should the split be at 75 or 78 (another can of worms)

[Tossa]

the established tracks in WA are not of the supercross nature and such as the manjimup track, which the VMXWA club up until this yr have held events on, very rideable for pre75 bikes, not easy but rideable.  As to pre78 will always be a can of worms!!lol

[asasin]

Here is what I posted on livewire in NZ under HAS VMX Peaked? got only 1 response, so here is probably a better place to air it:

just thought I would start a discussion on the future of VMX . Berring in mind that the popularity of dirt bikes peaked approx 35 years ago and those that were involved then now are older than 46 years , how many more years of VMX racing have we got? As most of us know after about 1989 the bikes wer practially "modern" bikes ther would be little interest in having them to race (nostalgia is not going to be a trait of the generation who raced these bikes in there teens) There fore in doing the maths has VMX racing also peaked and will we see a slow decline into the mists of time.Also as in the past the financial restraints that saw austerity in the 80's have again raised their head causing declineing numbers , History seems to be repeating itself.
One response effectivly saying I was  being defeatist

My Reply
The problem I see is that those 30 year olds were not even born or were at preschool when the true evolution of motocross bikes took place. the bikes they will want to ride will look like the modern bikes to a casual observer . ie all water colled upside down forks single shock and twin disc brakes..As far as tracks are concerned the spectro and a few other series already cater for those who just want natural terrain type tracks and those events even I would rather ride on my modern bike than my vmxer. Pre 90 is about where it will stop.
 

[TM BILL]

Why do we have this discussion ?  If those pre 2000 people feel so strong  about their cause , why dont they run  their own thing ?  Why always  chipp  away on the pillars of VMX ?  If you must , then build your own thing .

Agree 100% 

[Graeme M]

Sorry, I don't follow. How can developing the rules for classic MX to continue into the future, while preserving what we see today as 'vintage motocross', be chipping away at the pillars?

If you adopt something like what I am describing, then a club can continue to run Vintage and Evo 1 classes till the cows come home. If in 2015 you can find enough people to front the gate on a 1973 Bultaco or whatever, then great. But, if in 2012 someone wants to start racing a Pre 90 bike in SA and he or she can get enough like minded people together, they can form a club for Evo 2 and get some races up and going. And they'll be able to do it entirely 'legally'. And without the endless debate and whinging.

Now, how could having a lively and vibrant scene containing clubs running successul vintage and Evo 1 meetings AS WELL AS clubs actively running Evo 2 meetings, or some clubs doing a mix thereof, possibly be interpreted as a bad thing?

Or do all you naysayers simply believe that vintage MX is Pre 85 and that's the end of it? Anyone in the future who wants to race anything later can bugger off. Have an old dungers class somewhere else, as long as it isn't smelling up MY pits?

[LWC82PE]

As I tried to point out in the other thread and as 414 has noted here, a Pre 95 class will be plagued by flow on arguments. Any class that is to be defined by engine and frame No’s is doomed so the younguns will have some serious thinking to do.

Simple way to fix that is have a 'no follow on rule', set it in stone and then thats it. Solves arguments for good.

Anyone in the future who wants to race anything later can bugger off. Have an old dungers class somewhere else, as long as it isn't smelling up MY pits?

That is the attitude i dont like. With pre 90, 95 etc, no one is saying you have to race or watch it, its there for the people who like those bikes.

[whitey 43]

Ok good idea, but instead would like to see the cut off at 99 instead of going to 2005.

Hey!  I've got a 2000 model and it's not really different from the '99 model. Will the carry-over rule apply to this?

There'll certainly be riders out there looking at the tired 2009 practice bike at the back of the garage and wistfully thinking about the 'good old days'

Looks like A '99 to me...or did you paint the airbox?