EVOLUTION/OEM - What Is Your Interpretation?

[firko]

Despite stuff I've written earlier in this thread I have to agree with Maico31 that the Evo movement has been in business for a decade now with comparitively few problems. While I understand your concerns Bahnsy I think you may be spending a tad too much time thinking about it.

[Noel]

You are right Magoo,
I think it is a bit silly too ,

I personally want to  ride my  near stock 77' CR125 in EVO allpowers


But I understand Bahnsy trouble with explaining to prospective new riders what fits where.

If it seems there are the numbers of riders that are put off riding 78 /79 models against later model bikes
tweak my previous rule to
evo1 (as previous post)
evo2 all in race what you brung.(air cooled ,twin shock , drum brake)
again race together score separately

 

[bigk]

It seems that Honda forks and twin leading shoe brakes are the bulk of the problem, the brakes in my mind are a safety thing and should be allowed, and most could afford to do it, IF THEY WANTED TO. Honda RC bikes have had different variants of 43mm Showa forks from as far back as 1977 and I guess if I had the cash and made enough effort back then to get a set I probably could have. Honda didn't bring them to a production bike until 1983 even though they had been around a long time beforehand. Still If I fit a set I'll be "cheating" and if I go one step further and fit a 480 engine so I can have a big bore Honda EVO bike, I once again will be "cheating". If however I stick with the rules to the letter, and fit a set of Husky 40mm forks, twin shoe brake and a CR/WR 500 air cooled engine from 1984 to my Honda, even though it will no longer be a Honda persay, I will be fine and allowed to race. I have now destroyed my Honda and have the Hybrid bike that everyone fears, but am legal to race. Go figure. For probably 90% of us, it doesn't matter what we ride, the top 10% will still be able to beat us on an XR75. Twin shock, no linkage, air cooled = EVO. A '79 CR with a 480 motor aint going to be any different than a '79 RM400 with an 84mm piston (460cc or thereabouts, which is easily done). In my mind no one is cheating, they just have different tastes. It's more about whatever floats your boat than cheating.

[paul]

how much diference will  a set off forks make to a couple off old fat pricks haveing a bit off fun on a sunday and really what would you rather  mow the lawns  and have cups off tea with the relatives when the drop over  .or get muddy waste money drink piss talk shit tell fibs isnt it good to feel young again

[BAHNZY]

The point of what i have been trying to get across is being missed. The Evolution & Pre85 rules are going to be modifyed, manipulated and changed to suit whoever wants to challenge them and rubber stamped by whichever MA commissioner is in place in the ensuing years. I have been asking the members of this forum to field their views on how they perceive the current rules and what could be changed to make them rock solid so they can't screwed with for years to come.

If we are happy to sit back and wait for the 2009 or later GCR's to come out that ban the use of (for example) FOX forks or 43mm forks then so be it, I'll crawl back in my hole and do nothing. Pease don't tell me that i am overcomplicating this or giving it more attention than it warrants, i consider it to be passion for preservation. As many have mentioned, it has been good for many yeras, does this automatically mean that it will bo o/k for the next 10?.

[magoo]

Well to answer your question Bahnsy, I think that you can only live for the moment on this. I'm on the NSW Classic Commision and it is not an issue with us, and I know most of the MA Commissioners and it's not an issue with them. I don't see any problem with the way it is right now, all's fine and happy so let's leave it that way.

[firko]

The way things are falling Bahnsy, the introduction of pre 90 is the biggest threat to Evo.

[BAHNZY]

Magoo, your comment;
"I don't see any problem with the way it is right now, all's fine and happy so let's leave it that way"
Is this the case for NSW only? Are you able to say the categorically same for MV, MQ, MWA etc?

[Wombat]

What a great thread; every opinion has valid points and so far no one has got the shits in expressing it!
For my first race I'm hoping the Scrutineers will point me in the direction of whatever class my bike falls into. I don't care which class, I just want to ride/race against whoever is on the grid.
But I can afford to have such a simplistic attitude because others have sorted/are sorting the rules for the good of the sport.
One side of the coin is the 'she'll be right' attitude.
It's been good for many years; let's not over engineer a simple plan.
The old 'if it looks OK from five metres' rule/concept suits me just fine.

But good onya Bahnsy for wanting to ensure the system is sorted and detailed and tidied up; and can't be pooftered with for the foreseeable future.
An earlier thread about 'where have all the old boys gone' had several stories of people leaving VMX and not returning because of altercations over the rules.
In the last few days Mr. Motocross great Mark Pace was mentioned as having walked away because it all got too hard.
What a crying shame!

A wise old Army Officer once said to me:
"Rules are there for the guidance of wise men; and for the blind obedience of fools".

 

[Nathan S]

Bahnsy, I don't see a problem with the regs as they are intended, followed and enforced: Evo bits on Evo bikes.
I struggle with the wording, but the basics are definitely right.

There will always be bikes that are hurt by any way you classify bikes: The YZ125H is not Evo legal because it's water cooled, but is not so flash as a pre-85 bike; the YZ125E is a pretty poor Evo bike, but too different to the YZ125D to be a carry-over pre-78 bike, etc.

The way I see it, if you have a bike that you love, you'll ride/race it regardless. Alternatively, you'll buy something that's as competitive as possible within the rules, and race it.

Any change you make to suit a bike (or group of bikes) will equally disadvantage other bikes. Even if you see a fault in the current rules, at least they're a known quantity - people have spent time and money on their bikes based on the current rules - so if you want to make a significant change, then the apple-cart will be upset, potentially badly.

[magoo]

I love your thread Wombat, absolutely fantastic. No Bahnsy, I can't speak for the others, only the ones I personally know.
I  know so many guys who have walked away from VMX because of too many rules, I just think that stuff being an anal retentive pain in the arse, lets just simplify the whole sport and ride/race with as any of our mates as possible. If you complicate this HOBBY, that's right, HOBBY, with too many rules people give up and ride moderns. KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid.

[BAHNZY]

As much as i want to see the rules tidied up, the last thing that i want to is see is pages and pages in the GCR's that confuse people. If i was about to bulid a Pre75 (or earlier)  bike i reckon that i would need legal council to define what i can and can't do then make sure that he/she comes with me to every race meeting to sort it out with the powers to be on the day. EVOLUTION and Pre85 needs this like a STD 

[Maico31]

If you want to get into Evo, just buy anything with 2 shocks and an air cooled engine as long as it's original, and if it's a yamaha YZ it needs to be air cooled and non linkage suspension. None of those bikes come with disc brakes so that's already taken care of. What needs tidying up about that?

[BAHNZY]

Its simple, I've had enough of trying to appease riders at a meeting that want to argue why rider A is allowed to race with a magura hydraulic clutch system, or why rider B on a RM400 has modified his barrel to fit a Yamaha V Force reed system or why rider C has a PVL billet ignition system is fitted to his Maico and the list goes on. If you are a rider that simply turns up at 8am, does briefing, goes back to his pits, races each race then goes home at the completeion of the days proceedings, then you wont be exposed to this sort of goings on.
With all the posts to this thread, it is divided into various groups as to what is OEM, what is in the spirit of the ERA etc, that and the points above are what needs tidying up.

[Maico31]

Maybe it's different in Qld but i've seen bugger all bitching about bikes going on up here. Everyone seems happy to turn up, mark out a natural terrain track and go racing and have a great time. The social side of it is just as important as the racing for most of us.